(00:08):
Frank Frank, Frank, what are we talking about today? I said, you got a topic. What's our topic. Yeah. Yeah. Our topic is my failure to release an app. I think that this is going to be part six and the turnip cycle where you were actually able to release an app. And I have been failing to, and specifically, I think when you were finishing your app, I kept egging you on about just release it. James, just release it. But I want to actually talk about fit and finish again. I think it's a topic we come back to from time to time because there's that joke. At least it was on the internet. I saw just this week on the internet, what is one of the great lies you hear from an engineer? And that is they're 80% done. Yup. Yeah. Just ship it already. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember when I first started out, it never took me this long to finish an app.

(00:56):
So I want to talk about that fit and finish that last 20%. That for me takes three quarters to 80% of the schedule. And I don't know if I just want to, I just want to talk it through James. How's that sound? That sounds good because I am genuinely curious where this final 20% is sitting for you because I have to assume that for many of our listeners, this 20% can come in different forms. It could become, I need X amount of code coverage. I need my dev ops pipeline set up. I need this many unit tests. I need to spruce up the store. I need more, you know, in person testing, I need to add this one little feature, this little thing doesn't work, just correct. Right. Or maybe I, you know, want more users to feedback and, or, you know, there's so many, if I need a promo video and a lot of those things can, can take a lot of timing and block the pipes, block the release tubes, if you will, into the app store.

(01:49):
Uh, and I have to imagine right now, by the way that I also want to know, and I'll bring this up later on. So don't answer this right now. Um, is if the beta summer is also delaying you at the same time, since you kind of have a sneak peek into what is about to happen this fall. So maybe let's just start at the beginning of, of where you were since our last update, which I think it was like 10 weeks ago. If I imagine it was on the last day, we talk number 202 sounds about right. Yeah, sure. Uh, completely distracted as reported last week, remember beta summer time doesn't exist. We're unfocused, all those things. So, so distracted that I even started working on yet another app, but in my defense, it was an older app that started even before the other one, but that was my, um, Oh my God, James.

(02:42):
I'm just so overwhelmed by the fit and finish that I just needed to do a pallet cleanser. So let's say current status is bad shape. We're in a bad place. James is, it is the application of running Frank. That is the question currently compiling works has a UI totally usable, probably shippable probably six months ago, shippable, you know, it's, it's fine. Um, but there are issues with it. You were asking like, what are my actual roadblocks and things? Well, I find bugs and these bugs are kind of killing my soul. It seems like, you know, the more features you add to an app, the more bugs you accumulate, it's just kind of a truism with what we do. And the problem with not releasing an app is I just keep adding features to it, which means I keep adding hugs too, which means I'm doing like constant maintenance on an app I've never actually released will.

(03:40):
Wow. I, this, this is a note for everyone. Don't do it the way I'm doing it. Y'all well, what you just described as feature creep, Frank. Oh, thank you. And um, and, and to be honest with you, you also just, you know, came to fruition of what is the, the consequence of feature creep, right? Because often developers, we think of feature creep as we add new features, which means it takes more time and there's a new request. So we add yet another thing, but in your case, it's, it's adding to the complexity of the app, which can add some more bugs. And if you were, let's say testing, right, you're adding longer to your manual tasks, James, I promise you, I do my manual test. You got out there, how else do you find the bugs? How else do you find the bugs? You must be manually testing.

(04:29):
So if you, if you have the manual tests going on, it's not going to take you longer than ever because you have more features to test. Yeah, it is. Well, and in this case, it's an editor kind of app. So there's a combination of features. What if you do this thing to this thing whilst also doing this other thing, you know, it's that complexity increase and all that, but it's, that's only partially the excuse. Like I could limit, I could remove a big feature. This isn't like a little feature. I'd have to remove a pretty big feature in order to get rid of this bug. And so it's like, uh, I I'm a little disappointed myself cause I always feel like programming is really easy. I think we have one of the easiest jobs on the planet. Once you've learned how to program, it's pretty, just simple work.

(05:19):
You know, it's just a lot of typing, a lot of organizing, naming your files. Right. But in this case, like this, isn't like a little OSTP bug. This is an algorithmic complex 3d kind of bug. And I think it's kind of beaten. It's beaten me, James it's B it's beaten you down. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. Um, especially because I really pride myself and, um, 3d engines, that kind of stuff. And I just keep thinking like maybe it's time to just pull this feature and ship the product as it is, but then you and I always have these conversations about an app purchases and all that stuff. So I get, I get into this weird mode of like, well, if I pull that feature, I should build an app purchase system so that I can add that feature later. You know, we're decisions like that, I think can really, uh, stop you, stop me. At least

(06:15):
I would say the trickiest part of shipping, even the app that I shipped was, you know, what was my MVP going to be? What was my minimum viable product that I wanted to ship out into the market? And I believe that I was on a time crunch deadline, which was that the game was out for a while. I needed to get it out before, you know, other people did it or, you know, just people got sick and tired of the game or you don't necessarily have a time limitation crunch. Right. But you had the same time have a financial crunch too, because if you, if you want to turn one in the same day, that's very true. I guess you run out of money then, then also that would be a bad per se. But the, the question that I always come back to when it comes to features is, you know, how important is this? And then what at the same time is limiting you from actually shipping it, like finishing it, is it for you just tired? Like sometimes you get so invested in a project and then you're like, I just can't even do this anymore. Like I'm over it. Right. Which, yeah, we'll say a lot longterm when you have to continuously do that.

(07:31):
Right. I'll try not to turn this into a psychological interview here of me, but, um, I think I'm on record as saying that I don't release apps until I absolutely hate them. And I'm definitely in that mode right now where I've worked on it long enough. I know its ins and outs and that kind of stuff where, um, you know, uh, like this magical feature that I want, where it integrates mechanics with electronics, it's ambitious and it's a very show Offy kind of feature. That's what I like. But at the same time, if I go back to my own notes, that's a feature creep that one little feature like that. Huh. And in the beginning, this was a little three month app. Nice and easy. You know, almost a weekend app. I was just going to put a little fit and finish on it, but then, you know how it goes, you're writing an app and you discover these cool little features of it. And I just started to expand it's um, uh, purview, its ambitions, its glory, all those things. Boy. So I think, um, through talking to, through this James and just the last nine minutes, I think I'm realizing exactly what I need to do. Huh. In order to ship this app, but this podcast and start out just how do I ship this app? It's also the other fit and finish things that I want to talk about too. But I think you're about to tell me, I should just cut feature right. That I keep talking about.

(08:58):
Hmm. That's a great question. And I think you need to decide a few things. One is like I said, how important is this feature to your end product that your users are gonna use? Like, will people give you were stars for it, right. For not being there? Or is it on the flip side in which if you add this feature later on in a V2, then it's a value add, right? No one knows right now that this feature doesn't exist. I don't even know what this feature is.

(09:29):
That's why I don't want to say it on the air because then I'm almost making it exist. You know, it's almost like a spell. I don't want to know the name of the God here.

(09:36):
So that's the thing is you're not taking anything away from anybody. You can always give people more features and functionality, which is a positive overall. Um, so that becomes the question is, is this a free value add in a V two? Is this a, is this a feature in which it is a price differential to you? Right? Or is it, you know, if you're releasing the app for $10 without the feature, is that still justifiable? If that's what's in your mind to release it at $10 today with the feature, you know what I mean? And, and if, and if that's the case, then you can always add value later. Right? It's better to get the app out, I say, than to not. But if you are going to release the app, make sure you put that nice little pop up,

(10:25):
Ask people for reviews. Hey, I've learned my lesson. Forget, did you actually forget? I've learned my lesson. Like that thing makes all the difference you can see in my reviews, which apps have it and which apps don't. So shameless plug here, everyone make sure you put those annoying dialogues in there. If you need good reviews, sorry, users, very sorry, users, but it really helps all of us. Um, I really like, uh, what you just said there, that little perspective shift of users don't know that feature even exists right now, which is kind of sad because I've seen it exists, James and it's glorious. It's amazing. It's the greatest thing you've ever seen except for when it's buggy. And then I hate it and it's very depressing, but that is a really good perspective. And I think that that might be enough of a hurdle for me to just cut those few bits out and yeah. Maybe plan on it for an upgrade path or something else like that. Uh, I, yeah, I appreciate that. This, this was a little bit of a therapy session there.

(11:35):
I would say that when you think of it, you know, it's, it's, it's sort of, you know, the users are gonna, you know, when they read your description, they see your photos, they see your video is what you're selling worth, the dollar amount in which you putting out into the, the ethos. Right. You know about this super shiny thing. But at the same time, if it's a super shiny thing that's broken, then that's going to be going to be a detriment. Right. You could instead, or lease the app for X, you know, and then come up with a bigger update. You can get sales. And then again, when you come out with a bigger update, you would need to aversion it, right. It's like, Oh, here's a big, big thing, you know, inside of it. And then that makes all of your existing users happy. And then anyone that was waiting for that feature, if they don't, even if they're like, Oh, this thing looks great, but it doesn't have this thing then, you know, they can come back later on as long as you sort of market it. Correct. That's the flip side is that you then have to think about your marketing, which we've talked about on the pot podcasts before of websites and different things like that.

(12:44):
Yeah. That, that's the, that's the other 20%, you know, when I'm done with this 20%, I still have to do that 20%. So, Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. Um, I guess I am repeating myself a little because I almost remember telling you that perfection is unattainable UN unobtainable, but in this case I don't want to ship a buggy feature. Like it's not that kind of perfection. I'm not going to release a buggy feature. I think that perfection is that I've seen the shiny, shiny, bright side and I don't want to release it without the shiny, shiny, but I'm just going to have to, I'm going to have to listen to my own advice that I was trying to give you, getting you to release your app. But the other 20% is still a lot. You know, I have like silly bugs, um, on the iPad, whenever a pop over shows up, it's too thin, you know, it's too narrow. And when I may get fatter that the controls don't get wider or some of the controls do get wider, but they get too big. You know, if there's so many fit and finished things you have to do for an app. But at the same time, I wonder like, am I just being a little bit precious artist? You know, like, does it matter that that control's a little overly big or that the pop-over is too small? Tell me, James, tell me, does it matter?

(14:08):
Hm. That's a tricky one. I went to go submit my application to Google play. And when you do that, it will automatically run your application on about 10 different devices or so, which is kind of annoying because it'll, it's unreal devices sort of like app center, like test device, lab test, you know, and it sends you back all these screenshots. It's like, here's all of your, how's your app on all these devices. And guess what? It looks terrible everywhere. Um, you know, and that's fine, but how many users, there's not a quantifiable data that says, Hey, X amount of your users are going to have this device or your application is not really usable on this anymore from looking at it. It's like, okay, it's a little squished. It's a little oversize. Maybe it's a little bit spread out. But you know, on all of my test devices, which are more popular devices like galaxy devices and things, it looks pretty good.

(15:03):
And I'll wait to see if I need to optimize it on those different devices. It's like, where is the correlation there? Um, but I will say that I did do a lot of testing on iOS with my users. And those were the users that sent feedback that said, Hey, this little thing was cut off or this thing was here, you know? Um, because I was testing on an iPhone seven and they had an iPhone, uh, 10 or 11 and they're a little bit thinner, you know, in scale. So some things would get cut off a little bit. So I had to make adjustments here and there and the iOS users were the only ones that pointed it out. So I think that perhaps just their eye to detail is a little bit more, um, granular, maybe, you know? Um, yeah. Especially if they're paying for something. Yeah.

(15:57):
It makes sense. You know, it's funny though. Um, well, there's that old joke in programming. When you look back at your old code, it looks terrible or you're kind of embarrassed by it. I get that constantly cause I work on old apps. Um, but just for funsies, I was looking at old screenshots of my apps from 10 years ago. And let me tell you, James, I was a lot more brazen. I'm going to go with brazen, maybe brave in releasing UIs that maybe we're a little experimental, a little weird or a little, I'm just going to call it not good. And I look back at some of these old screenshots and I'm like, what were you thinking? You know, Oh, this UI is terrible. And so, and yet some of those apps were successful, you know? And so I wonder if sometimes if I just have too high of a standard, like we've all seen our favorite apps out there, like apps whose UIs we want to be able to make. We find like, I don't know, maybe the graphic design is nice. Maybe the user interaction is nice. Maybe it has nice animations. We've seen awesome apps out there. And I think sometimes I just want all my apps to be perfect and awesome where the truth is, as long as it's functional and doesn't look absolutely terrible, you know, to where people can't read it or anything. Not sure if it actually matters that much.

(17:26):
Well, let's talk about that, but let's thank our second sponsor this week. Sync, fusion. Listen, are you struggling like Frank to make your applications look good? Yeah, we get it Frank trouble all day trying to make his applications look good. And so do I, let's be honest. And that's why I head over to our good friends over at sync fusion. They have the best UI components. We've for building powerful web desktop and mobile applications. No matter what you're building, they have a beautiful toolkit for you. Xamarin flutter, UWP, JavaScript, asp.net, blazer, you name it. They got it. Whether it's charts, graphs, or awesome controls like pickers and diagrams and calendars and schedulers and chat windows and PDF viewers and Excel craziness. And they got everything you need. I love seeing fusion. I use it in Island tracker. We've talked about it before and maybe Frank will use it one day.

(18:13):
So he has said stop thinking about making his absolute getting, and just go over to sync, fusion and make it happen. Had to sync, fusion.com/merge conflict to learn more about all the awesome things that st. Fusion has to offer for your applications. And thanks to sync fusion for sponsoring this week's pie. Frank fusion, Frank Frank. Frank. Yes. Okay. So here's your issue? Um, then in, in, in, I am more aware of this than ever. I recently have been selling some, um, some, some home goods. Like I usually sell stuff on Craigslist or email cause that's really easy, but I wanted to try something different in the Seattle Puget sound area. And I tried an app. I'm not going to call out apps by name, but there's a bunch of these apps where they're essentially Craigslist, but a mobile app and you can take a photo and you post it.

(19:00):
And, and there's, you know, in, in, you know, in app messaging center, which is very convenient because no emails back and forth and just a little grid of stuff. But here's the thing about these apps. They're not necessarily the most gorgeous thing under the sun. I mean, they're, the, the tabs are like janky the, you know, pull the refresh as like custom and weird. The, you know, things are not in necessarily the right place. It's very out of the box controls. You know, there's a blend of probably, you know, native and web widgets all up in here, but the thing works. Like I sold stuff, I messaged things and it all worked. And the more I use applications, I realize where if it's an essential, you know, application something that you need or something that you want or that you're going to be productive in, then you are going to look past some of those blemishes case and point bank of America application at bank of America.

(20:10):
So it's, it's, it's really bad on Android, but it's marginally better on iOS. It's a little bit more native, but again, not a great application, but I, you know, I have it to do all the things that I needed to do and I'm not giving it a pass at, Hey, your application can not be beautiful. It should be beautiful, but I don't think it has to be perfect. Right. I'm using some applications from Google on my iOS device, like a Google music. And it's very, it's very obvious that not all of their applications are created with the same framework. Um, so like sometimes the fly out navigation is a little bit janky. It doesn't quite move back or, you know, things like that. Um, you know, it's just, every app works a little bit different and it's okay. I feel like it's okay. I'm sort of in this, in this light that if the application is good to functional, you know, people are gonna look past that.

(21:16):
They just want to be able to get to their things and do their things. Because like we said, Frank, most people use applications for 30 seconds. Now your application might be a little bit different. So the question is, is it stable? I think for an application like yours more than are there feature blemishes? The real question is, cause I know what this app is, is that it's going to be open for a long period of time, which is basically all of your applications ever. They're meant to just be open on your desktop or open on your iPad forever and perpetuity. Is it stable? Is it not going to crash? Is it going to save all of your data in a timely manner? And also are, is your audience, you know, when I look at your audience, I feel like that is more important than the most beautiful thing, right? Because for me as a developer and for your target audience, which I think is similar to some of your other applications, I think that it's okay because the functionality and the reliability is more important than the whizzbang pops.

(22:21):
So you said you weren't going to give me a pass, but I'm, I'm taking that as a pass. So I am going to have red on black text. It's just going to be green circles where there should be icons. It's going to be the biggest atrocity you've ever seen. I'm just kidding. I'd never at least that I'd rather draw terrible smiley faces and sketch then release an app like that. Uh, yeah, I, thanks. I appreciate everything you just said there, it's putting a lot of this into perspective for me. Um, is it stable? You know, the one benefit of doing feature work for the last, I don't want to say how long let's call it a year, doing feature work for a year. Is it it's stable? It's rock solid. I probably could have released it a year ago. Cause you know, like the engine, the core app has been perfectly fine.

(23:12):
I just keep trying to make, you know, the app more than just adding to it. You know, I've been pretty good about additive features and things like that. Making me feel bad, James, cause you're like, is it stable? I'm like, of course it's stable. I have my pride. I may have that red on black text, but that's going to save your file. It's going to save it. Good. Um, yeah. It's yeah. Um, there there's a million little things like to always be taken care of, um, not for this app, but the second app that I started to get away from this one, like really basic things like, um, copy paste, undo. I think we did a whole episode on it. They're kind of like pet peeves of mine, but those stupid things take forever to implement, you know, well at least, you know, select all, doing all those kinds of tricks.

(24:03):
And thankfully I baked all that stuff in from the very beginning. I had a nice architecture for it. I actually started off of one of your classes, your MVVM helpers, that's kind of the, that's kind of the foundation for my data model. I didn't use it for view models, James. I used it for my data model. Nice. That's okay. I like that. I approve. Yeah. And it totally works. And it's been pretty solid since then few race conditions, but no one ever runs into them hashtag no never runs into them. So fortunately I don't think I have to worry about, uh, the stability side of the app. What it needs is me to write a manual for three months, but I think I've already burnt out most of my schedule. So I have to spend a few days on that as a part of my remaining 20%.

(24:51):
So here's what I challenge you to do because you're in this, you know, 20% feature creep delay, bank, bug fixing cycle. Now here's what you really should do is you should probably turn off that feature and you should prepare your app store, listing your website. You shouldn't do all the stuff that, that as you're doing that, that should help a guide. You make the decision, whether this feature is required for a view on launch because

(25:31):
Okay, you can continue. But I just want to say, I love that. Please continue. Okay.

(25:36):
No, because when I started to do, uh, Island tracker, I knew that there was at least one feature that was required, which was the friends listing and the friend stuff. Right. Uh, but there was other features that I wanted to do that I didn't do until later. And as I put together the website, I felt very proud. I felt like, wow, this looks good. It is functional. Like the main bit of functionality that I wanted to get in there of what the selling feature was, was there. So to me that was more important than anything else is that when I put together that website, when I put together the app store listing, I, when I made the videos, it made me feel pretty proud of it in general.

(26:22):
Yeah. That's that's great advice. Um, I used to always joke that, uh, writing the help file for the app was kind of that process for me, it was almost like the most profound bug test I could go through with the app. When you try to explain to someone how to accomplish a task, and then you realize UI elements you left for that person, then realize, Oh, I could have made this a lot simpler if I'd only done this. So I used to tell people like you should be writing your help file while writing the app. And maybe we all should be, but you know, none of us do it. Um, I don't do it personally, but just like I think writing the help file can make me improve the UI. You're absolutely right. Just writing the three or four paragraphs or the product description and just putting up the website will give me a lot of perspective on, I don't want to say whether I think it's done because the stupid thing is done, but he'll give me, um, like you said, maybe that excitement, I need to actually push it over the finishing line.

(27:26):
I feel like I'm on mile 29 of a marathon. I'm just like, well maybe it's not worth it. Maybe I won't finish this marathon.

(27:34):
Yeah. That is the complicated bit. Is that, that final final push just to really solidify that it's done, but I will say that, um, I don't know. I just kind of feel like you need to get it out into the ether so you can get the feedback from your users and then iterate on it. Like if that may give you the motivation may give you the strength that may give you the, you know, the, the aspiration to push it forward. Because the other thing that could happen, I'm knocking on whether this doesn't is that you could put it out. Nobody does anything with it. And then you've wasted all of your time in thinking instead of just releasing it and then moving onto something else. Absolutely.

(28:21):
And I, I want to say that that's my greatest fear, but it's not actually a fear. It's an acknowledgement of how markets work. We're in a consumer market, which is unfortunately dominated by fashions and a lot of ways trends that kind of stuff, what people are in the mood for, whether there's a pandemic out there, you know, that can influence things. Um, so that's, uh, I think I was, that was part of my basis for egging you on was I just wanted to see if this app would sell at all. I wanted to see if the turnip app would sell at all. And it's like, you just kinda gotta get that MVP out there just to find out, uh, things like that. But, um, I also want to address what you said about, uh, the energizing nature of an audience. And gosh, you made me forget, you made me remember that that can happen.

(29:12):
I think that it's very easy for at least myself to start seeing the audience as a set of critics, where as you know, in show business, they always say, um, when you walk out onto the stage, people want to see you succeed. Um, the audience wants to see you do well. And so it's not that they're a bunch of critics it's they see the app, they get excited about it. They write you an email and they point out the 10 different things that they want the app to do. It's energizing. I that's all I'm saying. Um, you're right. I am missing out on a very positive thing. You know, getting all those support emails.

(29:48):
Yeah. When I released Island tracker, the first a hundred users were super enthusiastic, including my beta testers. And they gave me tons of good feature requests and things that really want in somewhere super actionable and helped improve the application and restructuring and adding some features. And at that point, after a few more added, two more releases. And at that point, the only thing left that people were really asking for was, um, was just, you know, for free.

(30:23):
Yeah. Now, now give me all of those features that we just asked for for free, obviously.

(30:27):
Yeah. Well, they didn't ask for it for free. So I guess it was in my mind, I was like, okay, the last thing I need to do now to scale, this is me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(30:43):
Yeah. I mean, w we talked a lot about monetization, I think over the last couple of months and, uh, yeah. I'm not, not going to over dwell on it. Thankfully my finances are in good shape. And you know, if this app is a flop, I'm not going to be out on the streets. I think that that, that might also be a little bit of an issue. You, you, you missed that hunger. Like if I actually need this app to pay rent next month, I think I would have released it, you know, this month obviously. Um, but, um, I'm in a good enough place where I can take the feedback positively or negatively. So I hope, I hope that I'm not allowing that to stop me. Um, I think I, over, I did overthink the monetization in the beginning, but I'm simplifying it. It's going to be fine.

(31:34):
Okay. I'll be fine. I like simplify simplification. Yeah. The, the, yeah, I have a hard time with, you know, monetization. We've talked about a lot here and there. And the, I think that for me, once you said, sort of put it out and get it in there. And part of that was just, you know, putting it out for a paid price because putting it in app purchases and doing anything else was a lot more work. However, I am in a good spot. I have all the code written to do them, the upgrade and the processing and everything like that. I just need to update my inept billing library. It's actually making it. So that's my biggest quirk right now, uh, and setting up price and things like that on it. But, uh, yeah, no, I mean, I think that it's a good point, which is don't get too hung up on those deals, details.

(32:23):
Cause you can always adjust it later. Right? You can adjust the price down, you can do stuff, but at the same time, what I've realized is, you know, things are going to take some time and your apps, like probably a good is going to skyrocket and continue to keep going. Who've you been talking to? Not every app, but you know, you know, some applications based on how you market, it might, you know, you're going to have your social bubble and pick it up, go down. Right. And then you're going to start to iterate, say, okay, can I integrate this app into this other crap that happened and upsale and can I market it and can I do Apple ads? And can I deal with baby bundles bundles? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think you can sort of put those things all together, but say, Hey, it's okay that, you know, my first, my 80% of my users are not going to come in the first 80 days, 80% of my users are gonna come next year. You know? And you sort of want that long tail. Right? Wouldn't it be nice if your application grew 20%, 40% every single year because you continuously added features to it. Instead of saying, I'm only going to get all my users right now and that's it. And I have to have everything in there before I can do it. And I'm never going to get any other customers ever.

(33:42):
Yeah. Look at you laying down all this perspective. That's like a, that's like a mathematical theory right there. I mean, it's so true. Like the majority of your customers come later almost by definition. It has to cause they accumulate. Um, that is so funny. I'm sorry. I'm still puzzling it out through my head. I kind of want to make that, uh, capitalism joke if you're not growing, you're dying, but it's not even that it's um, I guess I, I do fear, uh, first impressions, but even if you get a terrible first impression, I learned one trick rename the app, changes, scoop, rename the app and take a second stab at it. You know? So like, even if you screw up the first impression, at least this is how I'm trying to sleep at night. Um, if I completely screw up the first impression, I'll just rename the app, maybe start a new business, I'll get it right. One of these times.

(34:38):
Okay. I guess I could, uh, I could do it under my name if you wanted me to just pop it over.

(34:43):
Not that money's, you know, um, we were talking on the show once, uh, cause you were trying to change some of your Apple information and I'm going through that right now, James, I'm going through all the stuff you did while I'm doing the business license, the DUNS. Cause I just wanted to do an address change and Apple requires all that stuff just for an address change. So yeah.

(35:07):
Don't change your address ever. It's terrible. Yeah.

(35:10):
Does it stay permanent once you develop from an address, stay there. You're stuck for life.

(35:18):
Yeah. That's why I set up that, that not PO box, but the box thing or whatever. And I did it. Oh, by the way, I will say this, uh, Apple did finally, uh, fix after the tax update. The thing congratulate you. Yeah. They emailed me, they said, Oh James, we realized that you haven't finished this stuff. What's is there, is there a problem? And I said, well, the problem is that your system is broken. And then that ends. I said it very great. I've said it very politely because the good people at Apple are so polite. And I said, well, here's the issue? Here's the exact thing. And they said, Oh, let's get the tax department involved. And then the tax department said, Oh my goodness, this is, this is not correct. Let me, let me go research 24 hours later. They said, yeah, we fixed it just within wait 24 hours. And then after that, you're good to go or making changes in our backend. Wow. Yeah. You found it

(36:10):
The natural bug. Yeah. You're you're you're that that's really I'm. You know, when you were telling that story, I was like, yeah, I remember it being a little bit annoying, but it's super annoying because it's like, um, I dunno, it's almost like a domino effects, like in order to get that change, do you need this document in order to get that document? You need this document, that document that, you know, it's a classic kind of bureaucracy thing. And so it's not so much why Apple's asking for us a lot. It's just, it's opening a can of worms for me. And so that's a long way of saying no, James, I will not be releasing this app under your account because I know how hard it would be to ever get back.

(36:51):
That's true. That's true. Well, whenever you do release this app, you'll have to give us an update. I guess you never tell us the feature though, but please do. I mean, has this brought any more clarity before we get out of here to your dilemma

(37:07):
To be blunt? Yeah. Like I literally think I'm going to go remove that feature and start working on the website tomorrow, the little PR, then I have to listen to the merge conflict episode where we talked about those websites and see what things I promise to do on the website this time.

(37:25):
That's true. Yeah. And you can do a little, uh, you know, coming soon, you get to put an Eagle, put a teaser. Well videos,

(37:32):
Honestly, if I, but like I know a video is going to take me a day or two. So I just got to decide when to start the video. Cause you're right. Uh, the videos are very eye catchy. These days. You were making fun of me because we're looking at the Mac app store. You're like, you need a video, man. I'm like, I know, I know.

(37:50):
Yeah. I was going through the app store and I was very glad that I did have a video, even if it was a not crazy good-looking one, but just some motion, some thing like was pretty decent. So I don't think it needs to be crazy good, but I think it needs to be decent. Uh, if you're on a Mac, I think it should be a little bit better because I think of it more like a, you know, I don't think it needs to be long, 60 seconds max, 30 seconds more,

(38:18):
They limit you to 30. So it's really just how many 30, like you're allowed up to three 30 minute videos or 30 seconds. 30 seconds.

(38:27):
Yeah. One 32nd video. That's all you should do then. Yeah.

(38:29):
Okay. Yeah. Uh, and then getting back to your earlier about the beta summer, is that affecting anything I'm going to go with? No, because excuse me, I was 14 seems to be relatively stable and certainly we were talking about the DTK on the lightning episode for the most part apps have been working just fine on there. And it's not like Apple is releasing any arm hardware in September or anything. So I don't feel a lot of pressure there. So thank goodness. Well, sadly I can't blame my lack of releasing on the beta summer. Good, good, good, good. Okay. That's good to hear because sometimes you're in this period and why I brought it up is that a lot of times, even when I'm developing, I'm like, Oh, but what if I wait to add this really cool feature that just got announced. So it's going to really set my self apart and then, you know, then you don't ship until iOS 14 and then you're like, okay, well I missed out on four months of sales.

(39:35):
Okay. So they did change how toolbars look on what's it called? Big surf. Right. Um, I can handle having last year's book for a year. It's fine. You know, I, I'm not gonna, yeah. I'm not going to delay because of that. Okay. Okay. Good. Good. All right, cool. Yeah. I believe you will see next week a merge conflict and maybe, maybe you'll have an app at some point in the future. I'm excited for you. Me too. I'm glad we had this talk. I needed this after all my slacking off. That's another therapy session with James Monza mag now, and that's going to do it for this week's merge conflicts. So until next time I'm James Monza Magno your local therapist.

(40:16):
Thank you, uncle therapist. I'm Frank Krueger. But you know that because I pay you a lot of times.