Speaker 1: 00:10 [inaudible] Frank: 00:10 as promised, it's time to talk about the apple event. I was very excited because, um, well we, we had a good apple event last year. We got cool new phones, but this year has a little bit nervous. I wasn't sure what they were going to show and I think I wasn't disappointed, but I have mixed feelings so we need to talk it out man. We need to talk this one through. James: 00:33 We absolutely do. Because while it was marked as the iPhone 11 of aunt or the phone event, there was a lot more than phones. Frank: 00:42 Well yeah, I guess they talked about the stores that, that was kind of weird how the whole thing ended with them just talking about like the apple store. Uh, I feel like they must have cut something from the event, you know, getting all conspiracy corner. But um, aside from that, yeah. Um, I guess there were a few other things. I'm mostly thinking about phones. James: 01:03 Yeah. I mean, to me this was important because they had the services event and they needed to talk about the services because we're getting into new product launch and close to the end of the year, which is sad because now it's, you know, seven o'clock or eight o'clock at night and it's getting dark already here in Seattle, which is a shame, but they needed a talk about those and, and they, I was happy that they came out with them and got them over really quick. I thought that the amount of time I use that you told me before the pod that you're, you were very bored, but I was vastly entertained because it was, it could have been drawn out a lot more. That's all I'm saying, frank. Frank: 01:48 I'm going to agree with you 100% thank God it was quick because it definitely could've gone on for much longer. I don't know, man. I'm services I guess in the same way. I don't trust Disney to make good content, which is hilarious given that they are the dominant content maker in the unit America. I don't trust them to make content that I want. I don't really trust apple to me content that I want, so I don't really care about the services, but they did surprise me and wow me with the prices of their services. I totally was going to pass on both. Um, they talked about their games and apple TV plus, is that what it's called? James: 02:29 Yes. Apple Arcade and apple TV plus. Now they had previously announced the, what's the news one? Apple News plus or something like that there. Frank: 02:41 That already nothing though. I have tried so hard. We've talked about this with the notifications last week to make apple news stop notifying me, but even this morning, somehow a notification got through. I wished that thing would go away. This is why I think I just have this background in the back of my head saying hate services. Eight services service. James: 03:04 Well, let's talk about a new service then. So apple arcade, not plus just apple arcade or plus will come later. This is their Netflix for games. For all intents and purposes, they have partnered with a bunch of different companies to bring their existing titles, but also new titles, um, to iPhone, iPad, Mac and apple TV. So you can think of it as, yeah. Netflix for games on all of your devices. So they do work anywhere no matter where you're at. And they demoed quite a bit on the iPad and they're going to be a hundred games available at least at launch. A September 19th is when it comes out. So a few days after this pod and it will be $5 a month. Family plan, everything's family plan. $5 a month for your entire family. Frank: 03:55 Yeah. That surprised about the family planning part, but I guess there just gotten tired of dealing with the emails from that four 99 a month. That's pretty good because I was, I've been recently creating this spreadsheet of things I pay for every month. That just the little things though, the things that you always say, oh, that's just a cup of coffee a month, so therefore it costs nothing, therefore I'll do it. Um, but it turns out if you do that say a hundred times, then it actually gets to be some amount of money. So I've been keeping a spreadsheet of all these little $5 things that don't, that I don't actually think about. And it's kind of a genius price for them because I swear if this thing was $10 I probably wouldn't have done it, do it, but at $5 I don't even play that many mobile games in full honesty. But just knowing that I have just a bunch of games that I can choose from and I don't have to worry about in app purchases, but oh God, it just occurred to me all of these games are going to have in app purchases, aren't they? No James. None of them do. Oh, tell me, tell me more about this knowledge you have. James: 05:00 So that's, that was the big part about the apple arcade is that they said we'll work offline. No in-app purchases, no ads, $5 Frank: 05:08 I first got that is okay, I'm, I'm getting this thing. I, I guess I'll have to turn that background process off in the back of my head. James: 05:17 I mean, to be honest with you, this is a really great deal. If you have any kids or if you're a big kid like me at heart, it is a really great deal. I mean, I look at my Nintendo switch, which I have today, and so there's, there's, they're competing with x, Xbox live. Um, Xbox live includes up games every month. They also have the Gamer pass. The gamer pass is in a similar vein that gives you a hundreds of games for the Xbox, but you have to have an x box or a PC. Playstation has one too, don't they? They all have one at this point. And Yeah, even intended must be money-makers Frank: 05:52 otherwise apple wouldn't be getting into this game. Gosh, that's still an aggressive price point. It's, it's one James: 05:58 of those things where, so for Sony and Microsoft and Apple, I'm not exactly sure how the pricing distribution works for the content creators and intend on the other side of it, the switch, they have the nes and now Super Nes, a virtual council's kind of on their systems where you can just play. There's like maybe 50 or 60 nes and snes games that you can just play. And they also upgraded them with like online place, like Super Mario Kart now has online play, which has been Anna's, Frank: 06:28 no that, that, sorry to interrupt, but that is super cool. Uh, cause you know, uh, we all just want to play the games we played as kids and those are the games I played. So that's cool. James: 06:37 Yeah. And the, and that's cool cause you have the actual controller, things like that. But most of those are Nintendo Games. They do have third party games on there. So I imagine that maybe they're just making a deal and like, hey, we'll pay you x amount for this game or per month or something. But for this, I don't know how the content creators on any of these platforms make money. So if you're, let's say Konami or cap or Annapurna games that were all there talking about games, how much of that $5 do they get? Is it when people play their game? Is it per time? Is it, you know, what's the, the payoff. But regardless, for the consumer, for us, $5 is crazy. Frank: 07:17 You know, I just went to Pax. Did you make it this year? James: 07:21 No, it's one of the first years I haven't made it. I'm very sad about it. Frank: 07:25 Sad trombone. Well, I hung out mostly with the indie games because it's kind of obvious. All the triple a games, they all kind of look the same. They all look like fortnight or battlegrounds or you know, they just look that way. And so I'm hoping that this arcade thing has a lot of indie games in it too. Back when I was a kid, you would go get floppy disks of random shareware games or you'd get later, you'd get a CD of a thousand shareware games. And I loved playing through all of those. And so I'm hoping it's a little more like that. I don't need Super Polish triple a titles. I'm more of a game mechanics person. Ah, I didn't know I'd be so excited about this game thing. I certainly wasn't excited about it this morning. You're infectious, man. James: 08:11 I guess the question is, are you excited for Mobile Games? That's the question. Frank: 08:19 It's kind of the only games I play any more. Um, I've actually disconnected my x box and my, uh, playstation, I have both, but they're not even connected anymore. And I used to be a PC Gamer, but I don't do that anymore. So it's basically, yeah, it's iPad and I phone if I'm going to play a game these days, like journey, the classic playstation game journey just came out on the iPhone and it's amazing. The controls are terrible. It was much easier with a game pad. But um, yeah, I, I play on my device. James: 08:57 Yeah. I'm really waiting for them to have better support on the different devices for controllers. Now I'm pretty sure that they said that maybe as Ios or teen or was it Macko so they said they'll support like Xbox controllers and playstation controllers. Am I crazy about that? Frank: 09:19 I don't know. It's confusing because apple has a tone controller, um, while API, but also standard, I'm going to almost say, because you can go buy things, equip on to iPhones and act as controllers and we as programmers can tap into, um, I think that there's a dedicated API for it, like a game pad API. But, um, I don't know if you're right about recent news about, um, newer game pads being compatible with it. You've always been able to install bad drivers off the Internet to use, I've always used my Xbox controller on the Mac, but maybe Apple's finally officially supporting it. That'd be nice. James: 09:59 I think so. I'm looking, I was looking at the announcement. I think they did announce playstation four and Xbox. There's Bluetooth. So that might work really well. Again, it's a little bit tricky for me because I'm not a mobile Gamer as much. But then these games are also on the Mac technically then it doesn't have a touch screen and also the apple TV. So I'll be interested to come bring over a controller or come over and play on your controllers and see how this works. Cause you also can get a free one month trial. And that's pretty genius. So Frank's all in. I'm not because I don't have an apple TV or an iPhone or an iPad. This is pointless for me. But in other news there's one thing that I'm also excited about cause I do ingest a lot of television and I have the Netflix, I got the WHO lose and I have bunny ears. But they also announced the apple TV plus, not to be confused with Apple TV, but apple TV plus streaming service. You can think of it as their, not necessarily Netflix competitor because this is all of their original content, but it is somewhere in between a Hulu and a Netflix ish. Um, and it's going to debut on November 1st they were very excited that they're trailers. They were very excited that their youtube videos got so many views. Did you notice that they were very excited. Frank: 11:19 Yeah, but I, I like the phrasing of it. He said they received 100 million views or something like that and I'm like, so is that totalling them all together? Like I don't know how to rate things and I have such a skewed view on youtube views. I think you can get 10 million if you're a big broadcast or pretty easily. Are you sure about the, it's not all original content, is it other? If so, I think I just completely lost interest. It's going to have like 10 shows on it total. James: 11:49 I'm almost a thousand percent sure that apple TV plus is going to have just apple TV original. Yeah, Frank: 11:57 content. That's it. Wow. That's what it is. That's a play. Well that also explains why it's cheaper priced then. They're not paying 8 billion different royalties to different companies. I thought it was going to be like the early Hulu and the early Netflix that had a bunch of terrible documentaries that no one wanted to watch. I thought they would start with that kind of offering. I'll be surprised to see, no, no, no, no. James: 12:20 They came out bang in there. Whole thing on their website is new APA, apple originals every month, always ad free and on demand for up to six family members download and watch age a, I'll watch offline four K HDR and Dolby atmos four 99 a month. Or if you just buy any apple device free for a year and you know why it's free for a year because they don't have that much content and they have to give it away for free for a year until they get a big product backlog. That's what's going to have to happen. Frank: 12:50 This is making a lot more sense now because when they announced that on Twitter, I was like, wow, that is a really strong move. Uh, because yeah, all the streaming services are $10 and I still can't believe they make too big of a profit at that price. Um, boy. Yeah. Yeah. So they have nothing on it. So they're giving it away for free. Yay. Now I have to buy an iPhone. James: 13:12 Yeah, it's, well, I mean, just think about it. That's a whole $60 value right there. So I'm, they didn't announce to buy my thousand dollar iPhone. Yeah. They announced a bunch of new shows, one with Jason Momoa, which looked cool. And they have Oprah show coming out and a bunch of, you know, they, they, they're spending a lot of money. I mean, creating content is not cheap. And the peculiar part is that they have a stake in Disney and Disney deep Disney plus or whatever, or whatever I signed up for, I just signed up for whatever the Disney one was. It's like three years for like 120 bucks. And that has the entire, what is it, Disney, what is it? Disney plus Frank: 13:55 plus, it's all pluses, pluses, all the way down. James: 13:59 Disney plus is Disney. Pixar, marvel, Star Wars, Frank: 14:04 and National Geographic. Yeah. See that one has some backing, right? That's a pretty old catalog from business. If you're into all those old animations and then it's got some of their other stuff. Yeah, I, I keep debating that one. I can't, I haven't decided if it's going to make it onto the leach list, but it just my, you know what it was for me. All right. James: 14:28 They're creating new star wars shows and they release a trailer for the Mandalorian and I'm like, Frank: 14:34 I'm in, will he take his helmet off? James? Will he take it off? I do not know. Nobody knows he speak, James: 14:43 but that's cool because they're coming out with more original content. However, I don't understand why Disney plus an apple TV plus can't merge together and, and in a Hulu thing too, cause they're all kind of together and print. Doesn't apple own some of Hulu? I mean they all, so it doesn't everybody just own a little bit of everybody already. Frank: 15:03 I th I will see, this is why I'm not a big business person. I'm never going to comprehend why apple got into media. But that said, back in the day, I couldn't comprehend why Amazon would sell things other than books. I thought that was ludicrous. So this is me just demonstrating how, I'm not a big business person, but Lordy. Yeah. At some point just call yourself a corporation and we want to mix into any high margin area that we can. But media is not high margin. I don't get it. I don't get it, James. But I guess if we get the mandalorian out of it, fine. I'm, I'm more into the ob one show. I think I have to wait a few. James: 15:44 Mm, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm a little [inaudible]. See that's why I'm confused. Right? Because like, so Hulu is owned by Walt Disney, Comcast, NBC, universal, those three together. But then while Disney owned some of Pixar, but then Pixar is also owned by apple. Correct. And then, Frank: 16:06 no, apple doesn't own any epics are, Disney owns all of Pixar. Disney bought Pixar. It's, it's their puppy now. It's Disney. Pixar. Yeah. So when you're thinking about the apple thing is that Steve Jobs was the major investor in Pixar when Disney bought them. So Steve Jobs used to be on the board of Disney, but that's the person, not apple. Okay. That's why it's easy. Yeah, I see God, I am sure they have a relationship. I'm sure they go out to coffee and talk about cartoons, got stuff about it. James: 16:40 Okay, this makes sense. Okay. So maybe one day in the future. So that's maybe why Disney plus and Hulu plus can merge together. But Apple TV ball going to be out there now that said if you get in for a year for free, that's a pretty good deal cause I then consider it more, I consider this more of a HBO Plus HBO go type of thing. You know? Or they have these must see bangers, you know in general that that's there and you want to see them. But without having that product backlog it, it's still gonna be a, you know, a harder draw for people. Like if I go to Hulu, I can sign up for Hulu with ads for like five bucks too. And making this four 99 all that's going to do is maybe drive down the costs of other challengers in the market? Frank: 17:28 No, I don't think so. I think they're already at the bottom. No, I s like I said, I still can't believe they're making money at that rate. I don't think they are. I don't think they are. Well, it gets back to what you were talking about how to, um, the game publishers on Apple Arcade. How are they making their money? I mean, Appleton approached me and asked me to make a game, which is, I totally would love to have, but I, I have to wonder if there are Andy developers, um, how are they getting compensated? I understand. I guess big numbers. There are a lot of apple users and if you multiply $5 by a percentage of that, it's a lot of money if you redistribute it. But Gosh, it's just hard to think in big terms like that. And it's hard to understand how any money gets made with these weird economies. Yeah, James: 18:17 I have no idea. Well, you know what you can do. You can use some amazing tools from our good friend Reagan to investigate your mobile apps. Look at that transition. It made no sense at all. Did you like that frank? Ah, yeah. Frank: 18:28 I'm just going to go with it and agree that wonderful. We do need to talk about Reagan. James: 18:34 That's right. Whether you're building a web app, desktop app, mobile app, you need to be able to diagnose problems in your apps and you don't want to spend hours. That's too much time. You've got that much time. That's like five or six apple plus TV shows. You want to be watching those. You don't want to be diagnosing your issues in your app, but with Reagan, they'll help you diagnose those problems. In Minnesota. You can get back to watching all of those amazing shows on Apple TV plus or playing games on apple or arcade. Listen, kiss goodbye to having to dig through all those log files, those replying to frustrated user reports gone. Those days are gone because Reagan's error crash and performance monitoring tools have everything you need to help you build flawless software experiences. To get started today. Just go to ray gun.com that's it. You can try it today for free in your app, no matter how you're building your app. They have a beautiful SDK for you. Go to reagan.com thanks to Reagan for sponsoring this week's pod. Frank: 19:31 Thanks Ragan. Boy James, I can't believe we've talked for 20 minutes about services. The part that I said was so boring and the hippo event today, so hardware time then. Oh yes sir. But uh, we have to do a Downer first. I was disappointed by the iPad offerings. I've been really putting off buying a new iPad pro because I was on an iPad buying spree for a little while and I had to back off. So I was thinking, oh, this will be the year where I get a new iPad. But um, they did release a new iPad, but it's not a pro. They actually updated, thank goodness. Good job apple. The lower priced model. So for three 99 you can get what was the iPad pro just two years ago. And I think that that is a pretty awesome move on their part $400 for a very fast and capable machine. Did you see, did you like it? What'd you think? James: 20:32 You know, I'm not a tablet person, however, you know, they needed, you know, they are looking I guess to promote the iPad oh s uh, in more light and this is the way to do it because this will be compatible with the keyboard as well as the uh, apple pencil and now all of your models of iPad are really going to be able to take advantage of, um, all of the new capabilities of iPad, Ios. So to round out that, um, offering I think is very important. And additionally they brought this in, um, at a lower, even lower price point for schools. I think they said like two 29 or something like that, which also exciting Frank: 21:16 nine. It wasn't that much slower, but yeah, stokes took a job. Apple, it's, it's really cool to see. I mean, just two years ago, this is the a 10 x processor. This is what's in my iPad pro that I spent a lot of money on is now in a $400 computer. And let me tell you, nothing's changed in the world. That's still an amazing processor. You know, there's no new software, no new innovations will come out that would make that one seem slow in any way. So such a good machine. I was disappointed that there wasn't a new pro, but at the same time for the ecosystem, probably for my app sales, it's good that we have, um, powerful, low priced models out there. Yeah, it's Nice, you know, and it's going to ship with it, right? James: 22:02 Pedo ass on September 20th. So for all intensive purposes, that is the day in which things are happening. It's all happening, frank. It's all happening. Frank: 22:13 Well that, that's the elephant in the room. As app developers, we're all just waiting for apple to say when the gold master is coming out of ios 13. So we know when to release our apps and download the SDK. If you haven't done it yet and update all of our softwares, it's a big deal for us. But they're cagey. I guess we're all just saying, well, if the hardware's coming out then I guess the operating system has to be out. What are weird year though? The, the messaging is really off. Yeah, they didn't, um, necessarily did they drop the GM? I'm looking here. I think now it's still Betas. I think I'm looking here James: 22:54 here today. September 10th is when we recorded it says le running the latest GM seeds. So they didn't talk about it and that was the weird part. They always, for all intents and purposes have talked about the new release of Ios, but I didn't really talk about it. Uh, and I remember talking to the Ios team, the Xamarin team right after I said, do we get a drop or what's going on? And they're like, oh no, no, it's apple is doing right. And then, and then I think they did drop it. I think Frank: 23:27 yes. Uh, I have to correct what I was just saying two seconds ago. You are indeed correct. Here is x code 11 g m seed. So g m usually means you can submit to the app store with this thing. So there you have it. There you have it folks. Time to update your apps because guess what? They changed things. And definitely if you have a table view in your app, which I can guarantee you do, you better check it out James: 23:54 because Dallas got weird. Things are getting weird. Yeah, they, they did a, they did drop this, uh, and they also dropped thirteen.one Betas. So thirteen.one Beta three. Frank: 24:06 Yeah. That was the very confusing part for the last few weeks. They've been releasing 3.1 Betas. So I think that they bottled up 3.0 a couple of weeks ago. But what's funny is I've been installing 3.1 on all my devices because they've, that's apple makes it very easy to install the Betas via those profiles. I'm sure you've gone through this, right James? Yup. Yeah. So you installed the profile, now you can go get the Beta. Well, they stopped releasing the profile for 3.0 a couple of weeks ago and you could only get the profile for 3.1 so that was a pretty big signal. That 3.0 is not gonna last long and we're jumping to 3.1 very quickly. James: 24:50 Well, here's what's strange about it is I'm on the download page and the only provide a GMC for ios 13 not for Tbos, not for watch, O s not for iPad. O s they only show the thirteen.one Betas. So that's strange. Like it is a very strange, Frank: 25:14 it's happening. It's strange, but we all know what it really means. They manufacture phones. The manufacturer needed an image to put on those phones. Therefore they had to call something gold. They called it gold at some point, but they're not especially proud of that version. So we're racing onto 3.1 I mean you could call that conspiracy theory, but that's, that's how it is. That's how this world works. James: 25:39 That's true. That's true. Ah. All right. Well after that, very quick in and out, iPad done, they got immediately into the watch and everybody was flipping out about the watch. Craig Dunn, I was talking to him earlier, he, everyone was flipping out. Bob Is always on display. I'm not a watch person. You tweeted, you have to have it break down the watch cause I don't care. Frank: 26:06 Look, I s I normally agree with you 100%. When the watch part started, I literally turned off the screen and was just listening because I was like, I don't care about the watch. I like the watch. I write apps for the watch but it's not like a device I think about a lot or care that much about. But James, just from a nerd perspective, this always on screen just has my mind spinning. Um, every screen you deal with, refresh rate is always the big hiccup. Uh, is it fast because you need a good fast rate or else people see blinky Enos. And why did they see blinking us? Because the screens are terrible because they all came from CRM. They used to be CRTs and all this stuff. Why? We've always had a hard time, um, refreshing screens slowly and they're doing it. I don't know what magical chemicals and physics and monstrosities of microprocesses they're using. But James, the watch screen is going to be on all the time. This is normally something you only get with eating screens because there's literally a physical thing that's in an orientation and it's not going to move. This thing is going to have a virtual screen, not virtual thrill, but an image, light emitting screen that holds its image. That is so cool. James: 27:27 It's a re, it's a real watch. They opened up the video with this is a watch and it tells the time, it will show you the time. All the time, no matter what. Now they did have a very funny video because we've got lots of uh, lots of sirens and things happening where I live. You can hear them. They're going, this is if it's in, if it's happening, if it's in the show, it's in the show. Um, and in fact, you know, they showed off a bunch of features and use cases. They said, well, maybe you're running or maybe you're working out and you're in a pose where you don't want to do that lift emotion. And my other assumption is that they're like, you know what? That lift motion isn't 100% accurate. And what if we just left it on all the time and then we don't have to worry about a lift motion anymore. Frank: 28:11 That, that on all joking aside, yes. Because that lifting action is accurate nine out of 10 times and the time that it's not, it's the most frustrating thing on the planet. You're like, I spent how much on this big black device that doesn't tell me the time. So yeah. Um, it actually is kind of a big deal. I think it was always a flaw in these digital watches that they didn't keep the display on all the time and they're finally fixing that. James: 28:39 That's good. I'm impressed by it. I'm impressed with the new sensors. There's a new compass app and um, and they also said that the compass app is showing off API is now available to developers, which is gps elevation incline. Um, and a few other sensors that are in there, which is very cool. You can put that on the, you know, what are those things called? Confrontations, confrontations, complications. I'll took a minute to get what you're saying. Complications. They have, um, a cellular capable watch where you can do an emergency international calling. I thought that was really neat. And the video they showed about how the sensors and the fall has saved people's lives is really mind blowing. I mean granted aside, I'm not a watch person. However, if it saves one person's life then that is mind blowing and absolutely amazing and probably everyone should have a watch that can do this, um, in general, but it was a very well put together video and um, I really enjoyed the features that they're packing in with the GPS and with the, the cellular plus gps model, they are going to be a little expensive. 400 and 500 bucks. But yeah, you're getting a lot in there. So it's a nice little device. Frank: 29:51 Yup. Yup. Um, I did not come into this event thinking I would care one whit about the watch and they have me caring about the watch. So this got to be a slightly expensive event, especially with what we're about to talk about next. James: 30:06 Yes. Well let's talk about it. Let's talk about this monstrosity. Hey, I name it. Frank: 30:13 I have a name that I like to call it. I like to call it the tri claps because it is a giant monstrous. I thought they were going to like lean into the monstrosity. I thought for one second. I thought he was going to call it a monster, but he didn't. They were very good about it. Uh, yeah, they put, okay, well let's start with the I phone. Um, and they, we've had two lenses for a little while now, but now they're big lenses. There's a huge hot, they're huge. You just see them, they look like creepy eyes staring at you, but they look all right. And the new iPhone models, they look excellent. They're very colorful. They have all good stuff on them. They have, uh, a 13 chip, new whole processor, lots of good stuff. But then, yeah, the try claps, they put three of those giant lenses. What do you think of those giant, huge lenses. James: 31:07 Okay. So whether it's the iPhone 11 or the iPhone 11 pros, those are the two and the iPhone 11 pro Max, those are the three phones that they announced pro, which is good. I liked it. They went back to numbers 11. Thank you. Yes, not x one. So that, that's good. Frank: 31:25 And I actually prefer pro versus the r because it was like I could never remember if the [inaudible] was a, the cheaper phone or the expensive one. But now it's, it's quite simple. The one that's pro is more expensive. Like all apple products. James: 31:39 I agree. They finally aligned all of them so much better. I really, I really appreciate that. And in fact that the iPhone 11 is coming in at a starting price of $700 is, is quite mind boggling. Uh, very, very good. Um, really great. And now I don't know. Yeah. Frank: 31:58 Oh well because and because it's good hardware. That's an amazing phone. That's the phone that we all spent $1,000 on last year and now people are getting it for $700 and they're getting a huge color selection. So that is super cool. I was looking at the colors. They went with some weird colors this year, but I love that there's actually a selection, some variety, James: 32:22 and all of the new devices are made out of 100% recycled material, which I thought was really nice. Frank: 32:29 Yeah, that's trippy. Recycled aluminum, which had me thinking like, where do they even recycle aluminum? So I kind of want to look into Tim's supply chain now, but that's, that's super cool. Yup. Good job. Let's get back to these cameras. Okay. The Tri cloth [inaudible]. James: 32:44 These cameras are so ugly. They're so ugly. There's what they, here's what they did. Okay. They took a square and they randomly placed a bunch of big honkin cameras on them and then they slap this chunk onto the back of a phone. So if you look at this phone straight on and it looks okay, you're like, all right, let me go. This looks all right. Those are some big cameras. That's interesting. If you put it at any angle, it just looks, it looks like an afterthought. It just looks terrible. Now Frank, before you blast me, if you put a case on it looks pretty good and it makes you have to have a case for this phone because the camera is so ugly. Like the iPhone access not that bad. It's like a little knob. It's, it's small, but this has cameras and there's like a whole punch out on this thing and then there's the the light on in their sensors and they're just like, what did they do? What are they doing over here? What is happening? It's so ugly. It's, it's the ugliest iPhone ever. That's what I'm going to say from the back. Frank: 33:52 I am in complete agreement with you. I'm just, I'm just so frustrated because what you, you said the, the key point there was they don't care because you put a case on this thing and at all levels out in the end, but I'm one of the last holdouts on no cases. It's just my phone. I don't want to put a case on my phone. I don't care if it gets scratched. No biggie. So now I have this ridiculous bulge with three bulges on it. It's a bald with a bulge. It just, it's, I mean I thought I was upset about the notch, but the bulge on the bulge, I'm not going to cover it up. I'm not going to buy their $80 case thing and cover up the phone. I'm just going to have this giant bulge weighing down the top right corner. So every time I'm holding it, it'll just be heavier there I guess. Yeah. You know, it's so stupid. I don't care about cameras. Apple, I want a really fast phone with a nice camera on it. I don't need three cameras. I really don't. James: 34:59 You know, they showed us some really nice features. So they have um, they have this, uh, extra depth sensor, which is really cool as you can go 0.5 out, really cool photos that you can take. They weren't really in depth on the cameras. I mean, this is amazing. When I saw them I was like, Oh man, I gotta get Heather this new phone. Because we talked about before she had an iPhone six ass and going to the access was a huge dramatic difference. And she's the primary photo taker in the family and she, she doesn't one, she does a much better job taking photos of me. So I really appreciate it. And then I was like, well I gotta get her the iPhone 11 pro, but I'm like, I'm gonna get her. And she's going to be like, this is like ugly following. Like what is happening here? James: 35:39 And then if you get the cases, the cases, colors don't match the phone unless you get a clear one. But then you have the honk and you're right, the cases are 40 to 50 all the way up to a hundred bucks or whatever. And the colors are weird. I like the colors, but they're weird. And then the thing is, here's, unless you get a clear case, which will still have issues, it's still all weird to me. It's all very strange. Like they want you to spend 50 $40 on a clear piece of plastic and then you're still gonna see the, the hump. And, and I know what people are saying, like James Frank, you're getting the most amazing, best photos ever from an an a phone ever created on earth. Yes. But it's still an ugly bomb like, and I think Pixel is going to do it again this year too. And you know what? I don't, I don't want, I'm looking at my pixel two XL right now. He has one tiny camera on it and if you compare it blends into the black on the back, right? It has that panda. I have the panda version, which is like white on the bottom and black on tap and it blends in. It's not ugly. And you know what? It takes unbelievable photos with it. You don't know. Frank: 36:51 We wouldn't have a bulge or a bump if the phone was just slightly thicker so they could fit all the lenses that they want to fit inside of there. And if we had a thicker phone than we could have even a bigger battery. And you might call such a phone, say pro, cause maybe it's a little heavier than normal, but it lasts for two days instead of one day. It's true. Someday, someday we'll get out of the Johnny Ive thinness thing and we'll have some battery powered phones. I either want a flexible piece of glass, flexible glass phone or I want a big honking brick that lasts for a week or something like that. But James, those three cameras. Yes, in just a few months when the developers get at working, we'll give us fusion deep fusion and you know me the moment you say neuro network, my ears perk up, my eyes brighten up. What do eyes do? They do that and I was very excited because this is right up my alley. They are using all the cameras to take a burst photos and then throwing all of that at a giant neuro network and saying good luck buddy. And then having the neuro network output. What I'm assuming is the most beautiful photograph ever because I thought the iPhone took beautiful photos like five years ago. So I'm no judge at this point but I guess all in the name of the perfect photo. Are you excited about deep fusion? James: 38:27 I am. It is a very cool feature. I mean, what will happen here is the camera will take eight images before you even press the shutter. And then it will take one long exposure and it's going to stitch all of those together into this and create this pixel by Pixel, um, that will enhance the details and produce very little noise. And that to me is very cool because I've seen what AI can do specifically around night sight and taking all of this in and all this information and creating really rich low light photos and very detailed photos. And this can be really cool. So to me, I mean it's a great feature, you know, and it, and it does set us apart the I phone 11 pro versus the non-pro version in here, which then of course next year it'll get this feature too. But it is nice. It has that [inaudible] bionic chip, uh, which is bananas, uh, built right in a, it's in the iPhone 11 too. So really that extra the in the pro from what I can tell is that camera and this feature are the biggest differentiae differentiators, is that what I'm really seeing here? I don't see anything else. Maybe the screen size is a little bit different. Frank: 39:44 Uh, yeah, I, they updated the screen a little bit. It's the second generation of their old led screen. Uh, so I think that that's kind of a big deal but not so much. Cause I think again, it was already a pretty gorgeous screen. This is why I was, I was saying in the very beginning, I wasn't sure what to expect with this event because I think the hardware was already in such a good place. So I was curious like what they would upgrade and I was joking with a friend and it's always the camera. They always upgrade the camera, they have to upgrade the camera and so we get the camera update and the beautiful new processor, which is supposed to give us more battery life. I guess that's a good thing. And that's it. That's the new phone. But that's what the new phone always is. This is the same rhythm we've been in for years and so I'm just excited. Uh, did you find that part entertaining when they walk through the eight 13 chip and showed off, like the voltage controlling and this part of the chip and that part of the chip? Did you pay attention to that bit James: 40:49 and the what, 13 billion transistors or something like that? Yeah, I saw that and that was, that was fun. Yeah. I mean I'm a little nerdy. I mean I started to check out a little bit after they announced it. It had some meetings going on but it was Kinda in the background and I enjoyed deep technical things about it. You know, I the the their slide deck, that presentation was very pretty that, that's one thing I can say. Frank: 41:11 Yeah, they have a new kind of slide where they get, they used to do the word cloud, now they do tiles. So they were, they're all in on tiles. I guess Google was right about that. But yeah, I like that eight, 13 part because it was 100% in engineered just showing off. Like everything he said is stuff you'd normally do in processor design. It's just that it's such a big processor. And does so many things that it's impressive to see them talk, but I just kind loved, uh, an engineer getting up on the stage and being like, look at all this stuff our processor can do. That was fun, especially for that neuro network stuff like Google does, um, neuro network image enhancement already. That's how you're actually able to get a lot of good, decent photos out of subpar cameras on a lot of devices. Frank: 41:59 And I'm really interested in that field because it, it's exactly that. You can have cheaper hardware produce more beautiful results, but Google does it with one image and that's why I found it hilarious that apple is throwing like eight images at this neuro network. So yeah, you definitely want a lot of transistors to help you get through all that number crunching. That is a lot of work to do. It's a lot. I mean, it's still an ugly phone. So from the back, from the backs of monster, you got to love your monsters. So I'm just gonna you just buy into it. It's a monster phone. I'm calling it a try. Co-Ops. I'm just going to carry the tricops around in my pocket. James: 42:39 Okay. Yeah, I mean, well, to be honest with you, what's going to happen in a few weeks is Google's going to get on stages. They're gonna announce the Pixel for which they've already done. It themselves have leaked and it has a big square on the back. Now the difference that they did is it's all sort of integrated into one. So instead of like seeing the individual like app apple really made it very clear that there's this bulge and then there's bulges on the bulge and what have you type in right now? Pixel four. You can see it in Google. They've, they leaked it themselves. It's one req or square bulge, but it's all flat for all intensive purposes. So you only see that one. It's still not pretty. I still don't like it in general, but I'm just old and cranky, frank. That's what it is. Frank: 43:29 Well, you know what they say in design, if you can't cover it up, turn it up. So I think apple just buys into that. Like you can't hide it. It's these two giant lenses. So let's just show them off and be like, hey look, giant lenses. James: 43:41 Are we done with adding or do you think like where can they go from here? Because if you remember, there have been other phones in the past that have added six cameras, five cameras, things like that. Are we, are they just going to keep slapping cameras on the back? Frank: 43:57 I hope not. All right. At least I hope not. Um, visual cameras. I'd love the front of the iPhone, that little sensor array up there, the one that does face id, it's doing the connect trick, projecting out a bunch of stuff. It's got a camera up there. It's got floodlights. So I'm interested in those kinds of sensors, trying to hit different parts of the spectrum. If I do not need another visible light spectrum sensor on my phone personally, I literally need one so I can take a picture. I see three. Why is there three? James, I hope we look back in 20 years and be like, God, remember it at the 2020s when all our phones had 20 cameras on them. James: 44:42 You know what they need on the back of these phones is instead of just a big bulge, what if it was sort of similar to the front where there is, you know it's under the screen, but then there was, you know how you have the Mac book pro with the touch bar. What if there was a little notification bar and then all the, all the cameras are hidden Frank: 45:03 underneath there. You know, I think a phone should just be the same on the front as the same on the back. There shouldn't be a front and a back to a phone, whatever side I pick up. Guess what? That's the front now. So that's, we just don't do it because it's too expensive, but that's what it should be. And they've proven that this tiny facetime camera with a tiny lens without a bulge is able to take beautiful photos. Maybe with the help of a neuro network, you know, whatever it takes. But just gimme gimme gimme two i-phones glued back to back and make it a little thinner than that. And I would be a happy little duck. James: 45:44 Yeah. I'm calling this a podcast episode one 67. My phone has three cameras. Frank: 45:51 Yes, please. No more. James: 45:54 Yeah. All right. Uh, anything else from this apple event? How did you feel at the timing, the presentation? Are you happy, frank? Overall? Frank: 46:01 Uh, I was mostly curious, uh, what they would be, um, promoting most because they had so much stuff at WWDC. I wanted to see which ones they actually still care about and are still talking about. And I would say that this phone is just a iterative upgrade. The iPad is just an iterative upgrade. I think that the watch is a revolutionary thing and I can't wait to get one, but, um, otherwise everything was just pretty iterative, but in a good way, in a solid, we as an app developer, I can keep building and I know where things are going. Nice. Yeah. James: 46:39 I, I like what they're doing. More cameras, that's all I say. Just keep throwing them on there to keep it going. But yeah, no, I mean, I agree. I believe that it's nice to, to see their services come into play. It's nice to see the iPad line get flesh out at sea. Great to see just where watches are going. I can only imagine, you know where they'll be in the next two, three years at. That's kind of mind boggling. As all of this stuff really shrinks down and it's impressive that they're able to shove more and more into this watch and not make it any bigger. I think that is very impressive. Um, maybe one day it'll have three cameras on the side, but who knows? Frank: 47:22 It has more than that. All those sensors on the back of it. That's what I'm talking about. Like more sensors. That's what I want. Not James: 47:30 Cameras, sensors, sensors. I love it. Yeah. Ah. All right frank, I think that's going to do it for this pod. Anything else that you want to talk about? That's plenty. Somehow we even talk 20 minutes about services. I don't know how we did that. Gave services, services, services. Yeah. Well let us know what you thought about the apple event. Go to Nintendo now. Now it's a different podcast. Merge conflict could emerge. Conflict out of m and years. Little contact button on three chemos or hit us up on Twitter at dispatch podcasts. You can have frank at pro, Clara me at James Mountain Magno and also if you want to, you can even leave us a review on apple podcasts. Now did you know you can do this frank? That's interesting. So this would be like to tell other people to listen to it because it's an amazing podcast. James: 48:20 That's what you would do there. That's what you would do if you are wanting to help others discover this show. You can go on there, you can just leave a five star rating, but you can also go in and write a comment. And in fact, Mike d Schafer recently left a five star review and I'm going to read it. Okay. Uh, because we're at some popular view, you said five stars, but it's the review positive. It says like criticism. Great developer, I haven't read this yet. It's for the first time. Great developer podcast, five stars. That's the title. Look, I'm a web UI guy doing mostly angular slash typescript server. Tech is Java node or python. Nothing I do has to do with.net Xamarin or Ios, and yet I truly look forward to this podcast as much as any out there. James and frank talk about all sorts of interesting things, sometimes incredibly nerdy and specific to some done at feature or whatever. Other Times. It's very general purpose, but it's always interesting lightened tone, but strong and deep and value. One of my favorite podcasts, I look forward to each and every week. Boom. That's a great, wow. Geez, you just brightened up my whole day. I'm just going to get that framed and read it every morning. That is super nice. Thank you very much. Wow, great. Um, yeah, I don't know what to say now. I'm just going to blush. Just blush all. Thanks. Thanks everyone for tuning in and this has been another merge conflict and tell next Speaker 1: 49:55 time. I'm James Monto Mag now and I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening base.