mergeconflict249
James: [00:00:00] Frank, here we go. It is that time of the year. As we approach episode 250 next week, it is time for what do we really want to see this year at w w D Z Tawny Tawny. Wow. 
Frank: [00:00:27] That was lovely. I hope Apple records that and plays it back. You know, every year we get the, like the, the video for developers at the beginning of dub dub.
And every year I like brace myself for how bad it's going to be, but I, I would take yours. 
James: [00:00:44] You should take mine. It's pretty great. I just sent you a link to the blog post and then it, what is it doing? It's putting an HTML thing. What does that Gazzard do it good, 
Frank: [00:00:52] but it's, it's 20, 21. It's really hard to figure out in codings.
We haven't mastered all the internet 
James: [00:00:59] yet. I'm sorry. So June 7th, it is right around the corner weeks before my birthday. Uh, it's going to be a, what does this a five day event? This is too many days, but it's going to feed your iOS iPad.  you know, we have five assets to develop for Frank. Sure. Sure, sure.
Frank: [00:01:21] Let's count. Watch O S and T V O S I, if any of you out there have watched iOS apps, God bless your souls. That's awesome. Um, but yeah. How are they doing that? June 7th through 11th. So seven eight, nine, 10, 11, all online, obviously. Um, Boy, I'm not going to get anything done that week. I don't know. I think we talk about this a lot, but when it comes to watching videos and everything, I kind of have to watch in real time, because I'm really bad at getting back to watching videos.
So that's going to be a long week. 
James: [00:01:56] Yeah, I agree. It is one thing that you want to sort of sit there. You want to pull it all in and, and, and try to take time for yourself. It's the same thing around build and run Google IO. I have to watch the live streams for the keynotes. I set a set it on my calendar just to block time off from work, because it is important to me to know on the note I love.
Watching the developer, you know, the Google IO and the Apple and the bill, they're all very similar. There's a keynote. And then there's like deep dives afterwards, and you want to get both of them because the developer deep dives are all super duper important. And I am very, very excited for all three conferences this year.
They're all going to be online, which means I don't have to pay for anything. And yeah, new, I said five operating systems. That's only five app operatings from. Apple, we still have right. All of windows. We have all of the Google products, products, you know, there's a lot to be said for what can be developed on, you know, and from windows I'm talking about even stuff that you could technically put on an X-Box or a hollow lens or, um, a series of different devices to a duo, which is obviously Android, but spiced up.
Right. Um, so there's, there's a lot happening. In the world of Apple have developer conferences and they all seem to come around may and June. So it's like, Hey, the summer's here, you know, and you want to go outside, but guess what? Now you gotta, you gotta be inside this year. 
Frank: [00:03:21] I was really sad. You didn't get to tune into that list.
I was waiting for it. I was going to interject it, but I was like, you know what, too soon, too soon, what goes in jokes here? 
James: [00:03:31] What is, uh, you know, let let's remix this episode a little bit in real time here. What has been one of your favorite devices ever to develop for that is no longer around. 
Frank: [00:03:42] Oh, wow. No longer around.
That's a tough AP, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's the mini then? It's the iPad mini. Is that supported? Is it around? I think it is for sale. I think you can buy one, but it doesn't get nearly as much love from apples. I think it deserves for that. Um, size class of a device. I think everyone fell in love with the mini, uh, myself included and it just does, it does not get the love and all the iPad, 
James: [00:04:14] the iPad mini.
Yeah. Oh, interesting. You know what? I was kind of the minis Arthur. I was going to with the iPod mini. 
Frank: [00:04:22] Oh, good call. Not the nano, the mini. Okay. Yeah. Uh, that was a pretty classic device. I thought that only had like two years in the sun or something like that. 
James: [00:04:33] Well, you know, I do, I do believe that one of the greatest leaps and bounds sort of the introductory into the mobile space was not only the Zune, but also the iPad mini and like the MP3 devices of that category, because.
To me, there was this generation of flip phones that had their own app stores in quotes, and they had you have apps on them. And then there was this transition piece where the I pod and other MP3 players started to evolve and to full baked operating systems. And they started to do a lot more. And that's where, to me, it sparked a lot of my interest to becoming a mobile app developer.
Frank: [00:05:11] Uh, and I'll even take exception to the full baked operating system thing. Uh, so two phones, when you asked me that question, I, my brain immediately jumped to my two previous smartphones, which were an old windows phone long before the one-year thinking of, and, um, a Blackberry. I absolutely do not want to do the black bear development because that was a weird Java environment.
And I tried once and I didn't like it. And so I didn't want to do that. I did in fact, enjoy the windows mobile dev experience though, because at that point they had C-sharp working on it. Uh, they had a start button. I, you were basically writing a WinForms app somehow magically and running it on some weird version of windows CE or something like that.
And it worked, the funny thing is though, I just never really wrote that interesting of apps on it. Part of it was, it didn't have a good graphics system or anything like that. So that, that held it back a lot. But if you're writing enterprise apps, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that love that old.
James: [00:06:14] Oh, us. Yeah, that's a, that's a good one. And my, my mom, uh, she used to use windows mobile, whatever, the six or whatever it was, you know, that one. And she had, like, it was like a very like a Palm PDA. You know, I had a, I had a Palm Palm Palm pad or whatever it was called, you know, PDA. That was, that was on there.
And that was one of the coolest little devices I thought never, you know, it was like in the future, I was like, had a calendar and I could write notes and it was everything I ever wanted to be. The device that I. Thing is really neat that I'm sure we're going to be able to, you know, we can already code for something similar, but I'll tell you this because it's, it's it's technology that exists.
We've, we've talked a lot about this and maybe Apple is gonna introduce a dub dub. But to me, I thought that Google glass was a really fascinating platform to develop for. And I'm really sad that it kind of went away because as a. Pretty diehard, Android developer. You got to remember, like I started my career in mobile app development on windows phone, and then I became an Android, but I was always an Android user up until last year.
Right when I got my se too. And I've always been an Android user. And I always loved developing for Android. I just thought it was like, this is absolutely beautiful disaster of an operating system that really challenged you. Uh, it was like, I guess I don't, I don't know if that's, I don't 
Frank: [00:07:38] know where you're going with this buddy.
James: [00:07:39] It's an operating system that challenges, she tried D how dare you try to develop on me? Um, it really, it really was how dare you will never make an application, Sarah. Um, so yeah. So the, the cool part about Google glass was that if you knew Android development, you could basically. You know, right. A Google glass application.
It was not completely separate, but the layout system, a lot of that stuff was very, very similar compared to, um, you know, a lot of different form factors. If you're making something for like Oculus or for something you're gonna have to, like, I'm gonna, you learn unity or something like that. It's like, Oh, I know Android.
It's like, imagine when whatever Apple puts UI kit on. You know, goo on Apple glasses, like that's going to be, mind-boggling amazing. And they're going to have like some Z layer and it's from like, Oh my gosh. Right. They have seen kids, so it's going to work. But to me, that was really neat because it was also very limited in the scope of what you could do and, and this.
Reminded me in back to early days, we've talked about it because you know, we've been mobile app developers for, for a long, a long time. I mean, we'd talk about the glory days when there was one operating system develop for and forever, you know, you know, for every major platform. And, uh, for me it was, was really neat because you.
If you knew the Android layout system, you could build for this and you were constrained to a specific widget kit. And that to me was really neat and futuristic. And to me, it was so long ago now I remember Chris Hardy being really, really into, into he would wear it or he wore it around for like ever him and Miguel remember for, uh, Miguel Belding.
Uh, and to me that was, that was really fascinating as far as in my. Lifetime of a device that I thought was really unique and challenged to be different. Uh, I got a lot of hate, you know, on it, but, uh, I think that we're going to see a Renaissance of, of even more AR and VR type of experiences in the next few years.
Frank: [00:09:42] And, uh, I think I should point out that I think one of the reasons this is on your mind is because the Apple dub dub announcement has someone wearing glasses, looking at a computer with a lot of things reflected on the glasses. They don't look like AR glasses, but we all hope their AR glasses and they probably won't be, but we all hope, uh, I.
I think it's my fault that Google glasses failed. I kind of made fun of Chris for wearing his all the time. And it's because of people like me, that it didn't continue. See, this is what I thought. I thought Google was big and powerful and they weren't going to care. That we all made fun of it because it was very interesting technology and I'm not, um, I really think this has great applications in industrial environments.
Pretty much any job can probably benefit from this kind of thing. And so I'm excited to see this technology develop and like you, I'm pretty sad actually that the Google glass went away. Uh, there are replacements. It's funny how Android just gets around so much. You can go buy glasses right now that have little micro projectors on them.
And they're running a funny version of Android. And there may or may not be a cable that goes down the back of your spine and plugs into your brain, but you know, whatever your brain is going to have to run Android 5.0, at least. So upgrade. Um, I don't mind the widgets, the limited widget sets. I think that gets tiring quickly.
I started this episode by making fun of Wachovia us a little bit. And part of that was because for the first one, two, three versions of it, they gave us a really limited. Widgets, they didn't trust app developers to write performance apps. So they created an API where we were all running slow. No one could run fast that's that's how you get to them.
Uh, so I'm not looking forward to returning to that. I'm hoping Apple learned some lessons from that, but given the quality of AR kit and seeing kit and all that stuff, if when however they get into AR VR, it'll be pretty impressive. 
James: [00:11:53] Yeah. You know, there's, there's a very, there's a lot of segments of this.
And I obviously listened to a lot of tech meme ride home, and you know, he's been really talking over the last year or two years about the space. It's a space in which. People talk about, but don't maybe give it enough credit for the amount of usage there is, like you were talking about in industrial automotive education.
We've talked a lot about on this podcast and, um, I, I think it's a space. I've always been very, very fascinated in the problem that I have as a developer is I'm very much in a 2d space. Uh I'm I have a hard time. Entering a 3d space. So you do, you do a great job, right? I suck at 3d a lot of your other applications that I've seen you demo that you maybe not have shipped, but there's a lot of 3d goodness in there and you have a really firm grasp on the Z axis of, of placing a camera.
And I've always had a really hard time of adjusting my brain. In the coding space. Cause it's another level to mathematics that I think are involved in the matrix CS. And to me, that is a hard part for me to get over. So I've always enjoyed the 2d aspect of, um, mobile development and desktop development.
And I think that's why Google glass really interested me because it was a 2d overlay. And if Apple is. You know, putting that AR spectrum, right? Cause Google ads was unique. It wasn't really, I wasn't augmented. Reality really wasn't overlaying on top of the roads it's like on your eyeball. You know what I mean?
It's just, it's there, but it's not, there's not like a depth to it. I would say it's just like a heads-up display. That's what I, you know, that's really what it was. And to me, that was fascinating because it could take my, to my love for 2d and bring it into, um, another platform for me to develop for them.
That's sort of why I never got into VR or mixed reality. I just can't. For some reason, my mind doesn't work that way. Frank, I don't know what the problem is. 
Frank: [00:14:00] Uh, for good reason, the technology just isn't there. It's just not period, full stop people who tolerate AR right now tolerate it. Honestly, I think people are tolerating VR also.
Uh, there is latency involved and all this stuff, even with Apple's best. Work with depth sensors. Things are definitely improving, but we're not getting into that black mirror level yet where you put your glasses on and all of a sudden, all the apartment buildings become billboards. We're not there yet.
Probably not even in our lifetimes, we'll see, but hopefully not lifetimes. And so I think we will definitely have heads up devices where you have that weird infinite plane. Have you ever had a car and auto where you had a heads up display? 
James: [00:14:53] Did you like those? Oh, I have. I don't own a car that does this, but I have been in a rental that did that and I thought that it was, it was neat because it put the information.
Into your line of sight, closer to your line of sight. You know, uh, often what I saw for the heads up display was, was I think it was only the speed. Like I was just curious your speed. And to me, it took a long time to get used to, because you're so used to looking down. But then when you think about it, like, why am I literally taking my eyes off of the road to see how fast I'm going?
This, this has not made any sense for the last 100 years. 
Frank: [00:15:34] I 100% agree my whole life I've been saying, make them bigger, make them everywhere, cover the whole windshield and he's heads up displays. I, there are arguments to be said for distraction and all that. And I think most modern cars that have them have that very.
Uh, anemic display that you guess, or that you were describing with just the speed, but cars back in the day, I'm thinking of old cars we used to have back a GM had very elaborate heads up displays, and you can still get on the aftermarket and things like that. But, um, it's, it's kind of like the eighties thinking of the 2000 tens, you know, I'm an eighties kid, so that's, that's the technology I want.
So when Apple glass comes out, I will be 100000000% happy with 1980s and nineties heads up display technology for that. But, um, as you say, I do also love 3d user interfaces, and I'm always looking for opportunities to take advantage of that. James. I swear, I have an idea for doing a backend of Maui with a 3d rendering engine.
I think it's going to be amazing. 
James: [00:16:41] Do it. I mean, I'm telling you, and that's, that's one thing that I've always wanted more of out of, um, I guess the world of mobile with, with Xamarin or with other things is I've always liked the options to do cross-platform 3d because I live in a cross-platform world. I don't a lot of Lebanon, like a lot of YouTube videos on Xamarin one-on-one and other stuff.
And people like, Oh, you just can, you just do more, you know, native iOS and Android stuff. And I'm like, I don't live in that world. I just haven't done it. I'm just not in it. So when I have to drop down to seeing kid, it's like, no, I'm never going to do this. Right. But I need the cross-platform seen kit, you know, and, and I would learn it more heavily.
And, and it, you know, I, not that I couldn't, I, you know, I do drop down to iOS and Android if I need to, but I try not to. And I just, I it's just not in the world I've been in or the, it hasn't. You know, everything that I've needed as being cross-platform. But that being said, if I could evolve that. Into something that's built into the tool kit or in a community tool kit or into some sort of library.
Like this would be great. I know there's, there's things out there like wave engine and there's like a lot of game engines. I think that's the thing, but I'm like, Oh, how do I just put a really beautiful 3d, you know, XYZ thing into this. Uh, and I was doing a demo for blazer, uh, Dan Roth that made this demo with another community member with Steve Sanderson and lots of ding ding dings in there.
But, uh, They did this demo. It was like a car. It was like a car inspection company or whatever. And they're using the blazer mobile bindings. So I was like a blazer app also as Amarin app. And it was a blazer web view. But what was cool about this at Donnette comp and what was cool about it was they use like 3d dot JS or something like JS library.
And they're like, here's a 3d model and just like shows up and you're like, and it has like touch interaction. Like all of a sudden I'm like, how does this even work? And like that to me is. Also really cool because it was pretty performance to have like a JavaScript web view, rendering something. I was like, you know, well, this, this whole JavaScript ecosystem, I'm not going to be terribly mad at if I can access a bunch of this stuff, but I would still like to have native, native, native stuff where it's doing seen kit under the hood.
Now that would be pretty awesome. 
Frank: [00:19:00] Yeah, you want it? Um, buttons and text boxes. You don't want 3d matrix multiplied by normal array. Like no one wants that. I don't want that. It's why all the big engines out there and make so much money and all that stuff. Uh, we've tried to do cross-platform it's just hard.
It turns out 3d engines are hard, but. Uh, there are new rendering techniques being used a lot. Um, the one I think about a lot is path tracing, which is like a Ray tracing technique that just happens to run pretty well on modern GPU's. And I think that if one were, I think the mistake people make is when they try to do these cross-platform libraries, they keep trying to create the library from 20 years ago.
Cross-platform. The library from 20 years ago, wasn't cloud platform because hardware wasn't advanced. And so by necessity, the API was tied to the hardware and therefore the API is not very good. And then you're trying to make that hardware tide API matched to, um, cross-platform, that's just difficult. If instead, James, you throw away the past, ignore the past and say, well, if I were to write a new, modern 3d engine today, how would I do it?
And you would. Do it in a very clean way using pixel shaders, which basically no one writes 3d API APIs anymore. For general purpose computers. What they do is give you a shader language and say, good luck. Here's how you feed it triangles. And here's a shader language have funds these. And so it's funny that the opportunity to create cross-platform libraries has actually increased because we're doing all our programming on the GPU now.
And that is vaguely, mildly, somewhat cross-platform by 
James: [00:20:48] a stretch. Yeah. Th this is a good point is, is the modern day version of these, of these libraries and evolving. And to be honest with you, I, in the last week I've done. Uh, show a few live streams, been as gas, talking about Donna and Maui. I've done Lily's San Martin podcasts fare by Don and Maui.
And one of the big, big things that I'm really, really excited for with it is that it is new. I mean, it's new it's, it's, there's a lot of remanence and things that are coming from Xamarin forms, but like, The under the hood architecture and how things are evolving, it sort of has this very modern spin on what it means to create cross-platform applications with.net and.
Because they're like, Oh, guess what? Mobile application has changed in the last seven years. So we need to have a window system, you know, like a windowing system, which you didn't need to have seven years ago, but guess what? Now you do. So, uh, that to me is really, really exciting that, that, that there's these.
Hey, Let's like wipe clean, like let's bring you forward, but let's also wipe clean all the things from the past and, and make something modern and fresh that you're really going to create delightful things for the next seven years. And that's sort of seems what you're talking about with what a modern cross-platform, you know, 3d layer would, it would be, you'd have this advantage that you could say, well, 10 years ago I would have created it this way, but now I'm going to create it this way.
Frank: [00:22:20] Yeah, exactly. Um, sorry, I don't know why I keep obsessing over pixel shaders, but I think about them a lot because I had such a good experience writing. Um, I started 3d. I was able to do like graphical and animation techniques that were honestly very simple, but I just couldn't do them before because I used UI kit.
And I use wind farms and they were invented long before pixel shaders were a thing. And, you know, they just weren't included. So I, I guess this is all a very long way of saying is I'm excited for the future. And I, I kind of want to throw all my UIs and rewrite them all, but obviously we can't, we have to do things incrementally, but yeah, the times definitely change.
And I want to make sure that. Not just that I'm keeping up with them, but I'm taking advantage of the fact that I'm enjoying it myself. Uh, Maui is incredible. I finally got a little bit of a cheat sheet from Clancy and other ding, and he gave me a overview of how the architecture of it works. And it's really interesting because they've managed to do.
Pluggable front ends, meaning like, how do you want to write your app? Do you want to write it in SAML or do you want to do code first? And they have plugable backends. Meaning what platform are you running on? And that. Opens up a very large matrix of possibilities, speaking of matrices. And that's why I started thinking, like, if I were to write a crazy new 3d user interface library, I still have to pick an API for buttons.
I still have to come up with like a XAML ish kind of like UI builder or something. But, um, but I won't have to do that if I use a technology like Maui, or honestly, I probably could have maybe pull it off with Xamarin forms, but Maui is going to make it so much cleaner. And, uh, so maybe I'll be able to get you to write a fancy 3d UI.
James: [00:24:21] Yeah, no, that, that's a great point because one thing that I, that have been made very clear to me in these conversations and as things evolve is how they change the architecture under the hood. Which is there's no longer anything called a render. Everything is a handler. So everything is an interface first.
So there's an eye button and you can just implement I button and then everybody can have a normal button, you know, you know, and, and it's, it's, everything is a handler implementation. And the code to implement set handlers is extremely minimal, um, or the new architecture that removes a lot of layers. So I think that's really.
Really, really cool. Um, from what I've seen, I need to actually get in and pull down the source code and run through it and things like that. And again, the other advantage they have is, you know, when you not throw away the past, but when you evolve past the past, 
Frank: [00:25:19] but there is, as you, as you should have a conference called evolve, something paths, the path Tessa, 
James: [00:25:26] you evolve past the past and you pass the past and you, when you do this, The nice part is where are we at in time for this release?
And this release is everything's based on Donna at six, everything will be based on seizure 10. So guess what? You as a developer, get to use all of, like all of the nice things. You know that are in there. There's no, there's again, if you're building a 3d engine 10 years ago, compared to what you're building, now, you have so many API, so many lectures and so many better coding things that you have access to.
It is delightful. So that is why if Apple create Apple, creates it to bring it around, I try not to try it. It creates our glasses. Then imagine the type of. AR glasses kit that they could create from brand new scratch and all the new tech under the hood that they have, that could be pretty Neato. 
Frank: [00:26:21] I'm trying to do it.
You should watch my stream. I've been getting that true depth camera. I really think that that's, what's going to crack augmented reality because I was talking about earlier as like, there's just that late and see, and we've all felt it whenever you used an AR app, you move the phone and then everything drifts, you can't have that in front of your face.
You're going to get sick. Like everyone's going to just start being sick whenever they would use this thing. So I'm thinking that, um, Apple's investments and all that depth technology will be coming with that. I don't think, I think they've done a pretty good job designing their API APIs. I feel like they've made all the right investments and everything.
So I don't see too much changing there for the hypothetical hypothetical AR future, but, uh, most definitely, um, Things are so different than they were 10 years ago. I don't know. Do, do you think we'll actually get, uh, do you think we'll get a heads up display or a 3d display of if they did it? 
James: [00:27:22] I hope that it's a heads up display because it would be the, like one of the only ones in the consumer market.
Just, yeah, just start there. The camp had a camera on it. Cause that's what killed. Google glass 
Frank: [00:27:37] you think? So? So like does depth that counts as a camera probably then doesn't it depth? 
James: [00:27:43] Uh, you know, because you can't record, uh, I guess you could, well, 
Frank: [00:27:48] sure you can. I wrote the app on Twitch the other day.
James: [00:27:52] They would have to lock it down. You know what I mean? Yeah. And Apple, they love that little tiny green.to be displayed wherever it's recording. So. I, it could have D I think it would have a depth sensor because that's not as scary as when you w yeah. I mean, I guess if you just have the depth sensor, then it's not going to give you full, it's not gonna be like a camera or is it a camera?
How does it work? I don't know how well 
Frank: [00:28:18] how's he in it. I mean, it just depends on your imagination. Can you fill in the colors? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I would say, um, they probably would lock it down, like you're saying, and then they don't always turn on the green light. I was just thinking like the iPad doesn't turn on.
It's screen light, but I, you know, I kind of assumed it would have a camera, but now that you said those words, I believe you're right. They want to name it. They wouldn't try for the 
James: [00:28:46] first version. I don't think so. I don't think so, but it's also a weird space. And because not everyone wears glasses. Right.
I don't wear glasses. And, um, I don't know if I would wear just fake glasses for it. You 
Frank: [00:29:04] know? I dunno. Especially with masks, you, you don't wear glasses, so you haven't been experiencing this, but I can never see anything. It's always just fog, just fog. That's all I can see when I 
James: [00:29:16] wear sunglasses. Same problem.
Yeah, 
Frank: [00:29:21] well, uh, yeah, some, maybe a bad time to release classes. Maybe, maybe WWDC 21 will be five days of just students, Swift contests. 
James: [00:29:33] Maybe we don't get anything new. I'm also not, are we mad if we don't get anything new? If we just get like normal iOS, 15 T Vos, 28,000, you know what I mean? Are we mad at that at all?
Frank: [00:29:45] Uh, look, I I've just finished two years of work on a really large app. All I want in this world is stability. So I am really quite okay with us taking 20, 21 off. I want to be a technologist. I still am a technologist. I am enthusiastic for technology, James, but I have no problem being a nice calm 
James: [00:30:06] year. I'm curious if they, they make more.
Changes just to go all in on Swift UI and all obviously all in on Swift, which they kind of already are at this point that they bring, they, they, they really are like, this is the, this is the only way. Like they, maybe they just remove no, I think storyboards are going away. 
Frank: [00:30:29] No. Um, all their new API APIs are still written in objective C.
Like as of the last set of API APIs. So that, that much is a pretty large indication that it's not being replaced nearly at that scale. Definitely the focus is there, but I mean, just look at the samples Apple's produces. They're not all on Swift UI. That's true. Actually, very few of them are. So if they do, it's not for many, many more years.
James: [00:31:00] So we've got time. We got time people. Well, there you go. This has totally been a podcast on some that this is a podcast that is a beautiful disaster because it was quite beautiful and also kind of a disaster. 
Frank: [00:31:13] Well, I think we just don't know anything, but we still like to predict and that's all it is. We w you, you have made, see, you got my hopes up.
I had no expectations and now I'm going to be like, Hmm. I wonder what they will have in the AR glasses that they totally won't release. 
James: [00:31:31] That's true. That's true. Well, let us know what you think your Deb, Deb DC predictions are, or Google IO or Microsoft build. Uh, you can leave us comments. You can go on to merge conflict out of FM.
You can have that contact button and you know, we're coming up on a one 50. So if you want to leave us a, uh, feedback where you want to do a little voice recording, that'd be kind of cool too. We could, we could put those in for two 50. I don't have to fit these momentous, but that is a quarter of a, what's a thousand 
Frank: [00:31:58] millennium.
Millennia quarter 
James: [00:32:01] of a millennia. That's a lot of podcast episodes. Frank does, to me, 
Frank: [00:32:05] I kind of love that. Wow. I, yeah. Okay. Now we're making it to a thousand though. Just FYI, everyone strap in. Now that I see that number ahead. Yeah. 
James: [00:32:15] So that is two 50 divided by 50 to five years. We've been together for five years.
Frank: [00:32:25] Yeah. So 50 a year. I have to be so relieved to give you 750, more, 30, more years. Oh, I 
James: [00:32:31] got that wrong. 15 more years. Frank math. You got to swing. Got this, right? So could you, could you imagine I would be, Oh my gosh. I would be 50. 
Frank: [00:32:43] I believe it. I think that's exactly when you're going to quit the show. When you on your 50th birthday, you're like I'm out episode one to nine 99 and I'm out.
James: [00:32:53] Oh man, that'd be rude. Uh, okay. Well anyways, thanks everyone for hanging out on this beautiful disaster and please give us feedback. And I was a big shout out to all of our Patrion subscribers who are getting exclusive. Content like meat, eating dinner. This, I did more than that, but, uh, exclusive, um, and all of our podcasts, as soon as I finished heavy ma'am sometimes that is minutes before I push on this one, or sometimes it is seven days.
So who knows. But anyways, thanks everyone for tuning in and that's it for this week's merge conflicts. So until next time. I'm James  now 
Frank: [00:33:27] I'm Frank. Thanks for listening.