mergeconflict308 === [00:00:00] James: Microsoft build Microsoft bids for developers and all sorts of developing stuff. Frank Kruger word do when I build podcast. [00:00:19] Frank: It's that time of year. Isn't it? James? My build.microsoft.com. Did I get that right? Yeah. Uh, I have been watching videos, James, because it turns out I can't do schedules anymore. The virus has broken me, but thankfully Microsoft has the. Backpacks, which is a metaphor I still don't get at all, but I learned if I put things in my backpack, I can watch them. And so I have been living the build lifestyle. [00:00:49] James: Yeah. I don't, they've done the backpack for a while. I don't quite understand it because. I want to , [00:00:55] Frank: but it doesn't make any sense, James, that doesn't make it. I don't put sessions in my backpack. That's not how backpacks work. [00:01:01] James: Yeah. I know. I wanted to just be one playlist and like with a calendar option and then there's like, you know, on demand, you know, cause there's, there's sort of pseudo live in live and then there's on demand and there's the backpack. And there's also added to my schedule. That's in my backpack. I don't understand like why there's a backpack because. [00:01:22] Frank: Just because there's logic doesn't mean it's good logic. I don't [00:01:25] James: quite understand why and I've I have a backpack, but I don't quite, I still don't understand. I need to ask the team and be like, what, who, [00:01:36] Frank: I'm not going to make fun of their website anymore, but like you said, I've actually gotten used to it. I just like to make fun of their website because it makes absolutely no sense to me. But I have learned if no one's done this before. Yeah. Go look for. On demand episodes because our episodes look what I'm calling it sessions, uh, because scheduling your day is actually a little bit tough. There are so many sessions and everything. And so I did definitely put some sessions, um, I schedule and all that stuff, but I missed every single one of them. And so I just go back and watch the videos and all that. I guess that's what for the backpack is for. But thankfully they had, oh, Of on-demand sessions. I noticed a bit of a trend. There were a lot of like 10 to 15 minute on demand sessions, and those were great because I wanted to do a build day, but you know, the sessions I wanted to watch weren't exactly an order or anything. And so it was wonderful having those on demand ones to fill [00:02:30] James: in the gaps. Yeah, I totally agree. And that's sort of how a lot of. Conferences have been like, there's usually the kids, the big keynote, and then here's like a developer keynote. And then here's a bunch of stuff like even dev DC. Right. It's very similar as like, we'll watch like the first few and then it's like, okay, you pick and choose, pick your, and choose your own adventure and do this thing. I, I still sort of like how Doug dub has done it and I'm sure they're going to do it the same this year. Cause like once they settle on a formula, why change all the infrastructure? Yeah. They sort of release them in blocks, like, okay, here are your sessions at this time. At this time, at this time, that's a pretty good moderate follow, but it sounds like there was a hefty amount of content for you. [00:03:10] Frank: Yeah, the problem with this conference is always, there's too much content. It's a big company that they're trying to do a lot. They're trying to cover a lot of bases. Um, but I found a few neat tricks where when he found someone who is giving a session, you're like click on their name, find all the other sessions that are doing. You know, grab everything from that person. The search works. Um, I don't know. There were like a thousand things to choose from, but I narrowed in on my visual studios, my C sharps, um, I wanted to learn how to make the best cross-platform apps, but specifically for windows. So I was excited for that because my windows skill. Deteriorated over time. And so, you know, I was trying to cover my own holes. I like to watch, um, he keep wanting to call them shows and episodes, man, YouTube has just taken over the world. I wanted to watch those episodes, but, um, a lot of them are introductions, so I like the deep dive stuff. And so that was, uh, always, always find someone you trust, click their name and go watch all their sessions. That's kind of the role I. [00:04:16] James: Yeah, this year, there was quite a lot of nice Gannet content, obviously visual studio content. I just personally put together a playlist that's on the Dinah, YouTube, a underplay. It was actually just on youtube.com slash.net. And there's Donnette at bill 2022. Uh, and you can. Step into all the different ones that are in there. So there's all sorts of things on lot of asp.net stuff, distributed systems, uh, minimally API wise, C C-sharp, 11 Donna Maui stuff. Uh, there's chatbot stuff. There's all sorts of good stuff. Um, there was a Waze WebAssembly server thing. Zander. [00:04:56] Frank: Okay. W you're you're going too fast. We got to go through these, these interesting, well, let's [00:05:01] James: back up because honestly, I want to get back to what you said earlier, which was your windows thing, because I think that this blog on the windows developer blog, I tweeted out creating next generation experience at scale with windows. There's some really exciting things happening everywhere for windows and being a developer on windows. [00:05:24] Frank: Yeah, and I'm diving back. And because honestly I'm a little bit out of date. Um, I was strongest with WinForms. I learned myself some WPF. I learned the windows eight R T thing. I even learned a UWP, but I haven't caught up with the latest, uh, What is it called now, James. Then when your, why app thing, the API we're using these days, uh, to write windows apps. And basically my introduction to it was a few weeks ago when I had started the Maui port of my app, because Maui apps just run on windows now. And so I, I told you I got that visual studio up and running. And so I got the Maui app up and running, but immediately, you know, me, I like to do plateau. Customization, you know, so I wasn't happy with the titling on my window. So I had to dive in, I can't help myself. Fortunately, it's pretty easy with a Maui up there, even the template. I didn't even notice this. At first, the automatic blank blank template puts platform folders in for you already, that you can just kind of like, um, dump some platform specific code, like some windows specifically. Into and I was doing things like, uh, changing up icons, changing window resources, kind of low-level things that I love to do because I'm an old windows programmer. So I like to dip my toes into all that old stuff. But all that said, I realized just how much has changed since I last was a windows hacker. And so that's why I'm actually trying to get caught up with windows with a lot of these things. [00:06:59] James: Yeah, the windows team had a really great, uh, deep dive blog on many of those things that you're kind of talking about, which is not only building those new apps I'm leveraging. Yes. When you three powered by the windows app SDK. Okay. I think [00:07:14] Frank: when you buy three windows app, SDK, [00:07:17] James: think of when you, why three, uh, could be wrong, please. Windows developers. Don't [00:07:22] Frank: but don't just pick a name. Think of [00:07:25] James: when you, I three, as you will. [00:07:28] Frank: Yeah. I mean, okay. [00:07:30] James: Yeah. And the windows app, SDK is everything. It's not, it's like components and tools. It's the app. It's like, it's, it's the app platform that works across multiple IDs and multiple languages. Right. So, so it's the, when you, I, three, the UI works with many different technologies, so it works with C plus plus versus react native. It works with Don and Maui, right. So it does all this stuff. The those two things come together. I would say couple of, [00:08:00] Frank: okay. I mean, it makes sense because that's how UWP was designed was to be accessible from all these different languages. The difference being, we used to design things to be accessible only from.net. The windows team said no, no. So they made it's all these other languages. So I actually did not know whether they were keeping up with that decision. That's kind of the, uh, old decision from windows. Actually, uh, so it's interesting that they are, like I said, I'm so far behind you, but [00:08:30] James: sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, think of it like this, right. Which is the, when UI library can be used sort of anywhere. So you can put, when you, why like in a wind farm zap or like, I actually, no, that's not right. Am I right? No, that's not right. [00:08:45] Frank: You could probably host it. Uh, they generally have hosting solutions. So they usually do have a cross technology story about, of course you would still be forced to use whatever version of windows actually supports [00:08:56] James: that. Yeah, it can. It can be. What I wanted to say was this is my bed. It can be supported in a desktop window due to windows app. That's what I can be put into. There we go. Boom. So it's decoupled from like the UWA, you know, how UWP had, like, it was coupled, this is. [00:09:11] Frank: Coupled to the operating system. So this is a separate library in the end, they all have to create a 1 32 window windows will never die when 32 will never die. But, um, it, as much as I do love, WinForms, it's, it's showing its age. And so I'm happy to jump onto the newest windows bandwagon. If I can just catch up with it and recognize it from a distance and get on a. But it's all, uh, I've been very happy with it so far. Um, there are a lot of passionate windows people out there, so I'm excited to bring support, good support back to my products. [00:09:48] James: Yeah. I'm excited to make all my windows apps look really good and put some, some love and care into because you know, it's powered by downtown. And it's 1.0 GA. We talked about it and like, I didn't know, they were losing on Monday when released the pod, but sure enough, it happened. So that's cool. [00:10:02] Frank: Yeah. I D I, I hope we didn't bury the lead there, so build happened. Sure. We're talking about bill, but even more important the day before, uh, Maui was officially GA the SDK, where they were very clear about this James, the SDK as a CA, but tooling gave us a little bit more time. Um, and, and that's fine. I oddly enough, I've been using Maui from the command line for probably the last year. And it's actually been fine. The IDs are catching up. I use a visual studio for Mac 2022 preview to write Mac catalysts apps all day long, Maui apps all day long and it works fine. So I don't fully understand the we're going to leave it in preview thing other than. They just want a little bit more time. Uh, that's all fine to me because the most important thing is Maui is out, uh, dot net 6.0 point 300, which includes native iOS, Android Mac Macatawa support. That's been out actually for a couple of weeks now. So. Feels like we're finally going to have a little bit of stability chains and I am here for it. I've started filing bugs against dotnet because I'm like, okay, you know, if we're calling this final, I feel like I can find a way to start posting some bugs. And I realized that's kind of the wrong order. You're supposed to go with all this stuff. But the truth is it's been so hard through the bate, uh, previews to keep up with it all. But um, only now coming really get our feet on the ground and get a feel for this person. Yeah, [00:11:35] James: I agree with that. Yeah. Uh, I'm quite excited, uh, about everything that's happening there. And also because of that, you know, visual studio, 2022 for Mac G eight and a new preview came out with the Don and Maui support. So you've got the preview preview, those align. And I believe if I, if I saw that it correct, the version numbers are gonna align as well. Like it is 17 out. Oh, I think they're going to jump to 17. That feels. [00:12:00] Frank: Yeah, they are, but it's a little awkward at the very moment. It's like 17.1 and 17.3 are the versions you want right now. And so I'm hoping they'll close. The point to gap and life will be good. Uh, I don't, you know, there are so many version numbers now. They, I just let them wash over me. Look at [00:12:19] James: them anymore. Keep updating how's that this I'm. David butters, spectacular blog together. Talk about like the component vendors, the community libraries have been updated that were, you know, Xamarin or Xamarin forms specific and been updated. And I got two of my plugins in there and that billings. They're there. Maybe they're updated. They're ready to go. I got featured on a blog. I'm so excited. [00:12:40] Frank: Well, okay, so congratulations, James. Thank you. You reminded me of my own problem. Um, so SQL Lite dash net, uh, does not technically. Need to be upgraded for dotnet six and Maui support, because it's a dotnet standard thing. The way it was packaged is technically backwards compatible, uh, the way.net does everything. It doesn't use an float or anything. It doesn't do any of the breaking changes kind of stuff. But SQL Lite RA has, um, Erickson cause decided to do a dotnet six version of it. It's gotta be clear. The difference between net six and Maui net six is like the native stuff. Maui is more like the cross-platform toolkit for building UIs and yeah. So he's decided to actually do platforms specifically. Releases of sickle white raw, which is what I use as the base access layer to the database. And so I believe just to keep the world saying I'm going to have to make some dotnet six versions of SQL Lite cash. Now, even though. Nicole reason why I really need to, other than, I really just want to keep pace with Eric sink and the rest of the world. So I'll probably have some dotnet six versions of that within a week or two. I like [00:13:56] James: that. I like that talking about windows. Um, even though you're talking about SQL, but talking about windows, I always thinking about your apps. Cause you're talking about upgrading your stuff, you know, that you can now put, um, when 32 apps into the Microsoft stores. So you could take, Ooh, you know, Kalka [00:14:13] Frank: put it in there. Coco's in this store, James. Thanks. Thanks for paying. Oh, [00:14:17] James: that's right. You were, you did that thing earlier. You were on the ways, but now everyone can do that. I totally forgot. We did a whole episode on it, Frank. Yeah, [00:14:24] Frank: we did a whole episode on it. So this is some years ago they started letting, um, non windows eight non UWP apps into the windows store. But you still had to go through a bit of a process. I remember I was complaining in that podcast. You still had to do this email thing. You had to get approval from them. They sent you a special code. You had to follow these special instructions. Well, Microsoft has finally done what they should've done 10 years ago and just open the store to every windows dot exe. Anyone can bundle into a dot exe. You know what you guys right? Antivirus software. Just scan them. It's fine. So free. Praise to Microsoft for finally doing it, but I'm going to keep using that word finally, because I mean, they put us through a little bit of misery there, but basically if you wrote a windows app, no matter how you did it, you can put it on the windows store. And I liked the windows store. I mentioned a while ago that someone had contacted me about getting like a special version of the app because they didn't want to cut through the Microsoft thing and all that stuff. And I was like, ah, this is such a pain. Yeah. I'd much rather, you actually just go through the store. And so I'm happy that they're making it a lot easier. Now I don't actually plan on doing any more WinForms apps as much as I love them, but, uh, you never know what the [00:15:43] James: future holds. Right? If you have one, that's the thing. I'm also excited to see that they're doing ads. It says Microsoft store ads. I don't know what that means, but you know, promoting ad campaigns in the store, and then also more importantly, Amazon apps are opening a more countries, including France, Germany, Italy, Japan, and the UK. And I assume what that means is that WSA windows, subsystem for Android is coming to more places. But I do not know. I assume because those things are linked together, but Frank, Frank, it's the money. What arm? 64. You've been talking about arm sexy for arm. [00:16:21] Frank: Okay, look okay. Let's start with the high level. Good news. Microsoft. It's doubling down on the arm, 64, and they know that developers just don't have arms 64 windows computers out there. That's a, Microsoft is building an awesome arm, 64 windows machine. And I desperately want one Jane, but I do find it all kind of hilarious that like, When windows has been running on arm forever. And they're like, Hey, visual studio, beyond our mind, we had, we had visual studio on arm in 2005, or whenever the heck I was there, you know, it's no big deal. It's just more like, okay, we're going to really push it. And we're going to show you guys like it works well and all that kind of stuff. Honestly, I think, um, they had to get that 64 bit version on Intel up and running first in a good way. And then they got. I am 64 going either way, super exciting. Um, I think, you know, poor Intel. I don't know how they do these business meetings, James, but I'm excited and arm six before the only thing I'm a little bit sad is I just got a new windows developed machine up and running. It took me a whole day. It was a lot of effort. They kept making me talk about my password over and over again. And I'm not going to be able to resist. I'm going to want to buy one of these little, little cute little arm, 64 death machines. It's so cute. They made them, they made a windows mini. [00:17:40] James: It's pretty cool. It is. And then you, I think you pitched it. Correct. And obviously, you know, when we talk about bill, we talk about stuff, I would say work for Microsoft. So there's many things I'm redacting from, from knowledge. Yeah. Sorry. I'm looking at the blog post and I'm like, okay, what am I allowed to say? But this is an exciting experience because you know, You know, apple did D we had the NDK right. We, we were testing and we're in this world and we got the M one and yeah, it took a long time and you're right. Like windows for arm has been around for awhile, but you made a good point, which is who has a windows arm device? Because the only one, I mean, I know there are some, but the most famous one is the surface X, and that's a pretty, you know, um, expensive machines. And this one, there's no information about what it is about what the price would be. Cause for developers, it's not like a consumer machine from what they're saying in the blog post, at least. But the thing they really pitch was this Frank was there. They announced a comprehensive end to M arm, native tool chain for arm native apps. And this is what I think is cool. Okay. Because in the blog post that lists full visual studio, 2022 and vs. Code native arm company. [00:18:55] Frank: Prov. Oh, I was actually surprised to see that. Sorry to always jump back to Mac, but, um, we just started getting this in the visual studio, 2022 preview. Uh, maybe that's been around for a while, but uh, like.net six is running on arm. 64. Visual studio is running on arm 64 over there. And it's really nice. As great as Rosetta is. Rosetta is absolutely amazing. It's great to have those actual arms, 64 executable. So there, and so it's a big deal. It's a big deal to get everything compiled over. Um, they're not using.net to write all their tools. They use some native language like C plus plus. So it's not so easy for them to port all their tools over to a new processor. Like it is for us.net people. And so Bravo to them, they got the full visual studio, all the tools. What else was on that list? There was a lot of developer stuff. Yeah. Vs code, [00:19:49] James: of course. Vs code. You got visual C plus plus support.net sings and Java support. How about this done at framework recompiled for alarm [00:19:59] Frank: really? Oh, I guess they would have to because visual studio runs on framework. Oh no, that had to be rough. Sorry, Microsoft is that must've taken a lot of time. Glad it's over with and we can move on. Oh my gosh. I can't getting.net framework. Oh my God. That just, just so it's not in our framework is all C plus plus code a giant pile of C plus plus code. You don't want to port that stuff [00:20:27] James: and that, and when you said commitment doubling down, it might be a little bit more than the sound. It sounds, frankly, you're saying it's a little bit more than doubling down just to get that working. [00:20:37] Frank: Let's just say, I wouldn't want to be assigned that. I'd be like, oh, heck no, I'm going to switch deans now. [00:20:44] James: Terrible. I did it. And they're also, they got a windows terminal, obviously WSL and WSA for running Linux and Android apps that works on this thing. And they're working. [00:20:55] Frank: I'm sorry. I have to interrupt. That's really smart. I, that was Apple's great. Magic trick was getting iOS apps to run on the . I think that backfired on them a little bit because none of our apps were ready for the desktop. Uh, but it was still smart. And honestly, if you would ask me to guess whether they would have ported that WSA layer, I probably would have guessed. No. So that's pretty impressive. [00:21:20] James: Yeah. And they're working with Python node, get LLVM and more individuals to get the tool chains up and running. I don't know. It's pretty cool. I like, I like the setup they have here too. They have like two machines plugged in like one of the visual studio or crazy, and then nice surface mouse. I'm like, man, I want, I want one of these. Can I get one of these? And that means no information, but I sounds cool. [00:21:44] Frank: Yeah. W what was the name? Volta, something like that, Tara Volterra yeah. The other one's a band. Um, yeah, they said it's for devs. I couldn't find for myself buy it now link and to cart link. Um, I did see someone on Twitter say it is not to consumer device, but please let us know if you think it should be, because they probably do want to make them. And they're just looking for an excuse to mass. Produce them. Uh, that's exciting though. I I'm always down for a small computer. I don't need a giant gaming PC for development. You just don't. Uh, so I'm a hundred percent there for that. [00:22:21] James: Yeah. I think if you make great software, great hardware for devs to help them enable them build great things and that's going to hopefully build better. [00:22:30] Frank: Yeah. And I don't know the full story here. Like if I do a windows Maui app and compile it for any CPU, would it run on both? So I think we both need to do a little bit of detailed checking. I'm not sure if Microsoft is doing like FedEx, they're going that route. Okay. Yeah, [00:22:51] James: you can pay you. So instead of doing any CPU you pick and choose, so normally you do x86 X 64 and. In in the, in the Dropbox and it bundles it, what it does is it bundles it compiles three apps and shoves them into a bundle. [00:23:04] Frank: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So not fat fat executable is fat [00:23:08] James: bundle, got bundles that bundle. And that's been for like ever since like UWP as well as well. So yeah, that's how they do. That's how I ship my stream timer to this store. You're on arm. I mean, there's an arm button that I have checked, so I assume it works. [00:23:25] Frank: Ooh, look at you. Arm not armed 64. Do you know what you're shipping? Uh, [00:23:31] James: whatever the check box [00:23:32] Frank: says. Okay. Okay. Well, we're all going to have to do a little bit of learning, I guess. [00:23:37] James: Oh, there you go. If I had a nice little tiny box, so let me boot it up, run my applicant. And if I could develop, like, you know, like a long time ago, Here's the crazy part, like a long time ago, when you were like, oh, I'm going to do a windows eight thing. And you have like, do it on a tablet. You have to like remotely. It is like long time. You'd like remotely connect to it. And then you're like remotely deploy, you know, it's like, this is how I just tested on this thing. Like, no, like now it's just, all my machine is my mind development machine that I'm going to be deploying my app on. Like that's cool. [00:24:08] Frank: Yeah. And honestly, like I think I circuits that'd be fine. I circuit was running on gen one iPads. So I think it can handle a modern windows computer, but at the same time, there nothing beats having your development tool and the executable on the same day. Because he can hook the D debugger directly into it. You can measure it directly. And you just never know, like maybe my matrix math code is totally weird on arm 64 for windows. Maybe the compiler is doing something funny or maybe what I actually need to do is, uh, check what kind of acceleration libraries a windows has built in now, because a lot of. Fashionable in the old days to pack like numerical libraries into operating system SDKs, they would always say, that's what libraries are for those don't belong in the operating system. But times have changed. Like Android puts them into their operating system. Apple has put them into their operating system. So I think I need to catch back up a little bit and find out if I can take advantage of things like that. Sorry, thinking out loud a little bit here, but I'm just thinking of how far behind I am and how much I need to get. Yeah. [00:25:18] James: Uh, before we have done it, I got hot and say one more thing. I'm thinking about windows development. The last thing I want to think about, and I don't, I I'm excited about it and I, I, I don't, I don't have a hands on, I don't have any insight scoop on this one at all. The Microsoft dev box. Do you know about the Microsoft dev box? [00:25:40] Frank: I don't fully understand this is this the online thing? Um, I, here was my best guess. Let, let me know if I'm at all. Correct. Okay. I was thinking, you know how they, you know how we have those. Docker, what do you call a dev container? It almost feels like dev containers on steroids, where instead of just having a dev container where it's a Docker file and you tell it some things to install, that sounds like it's that, but for full, maybe like a windows machine or like a minutes. What is it, [00:26:12] James: James? Great question. It's very close. Yeah. I think with the, I th I think that there's a lot of similarities there with the, uh, dev container. The difference with the dev container is like all of your, all of your, everything. It's not your tooling, but it's all of the dependencies that are needed to build the application are bundled into a Docker image and things get built inside. Of course that adds complexity because what if Docker doesn't support a thing? Can I deploy Android, Iowa? You know what I mean? Like there's some complicated, so I feel like that was great for like web developers. You know what I mean? A lot. [00:26:50] Frank: Yeah, exactly. That, [00:26:52] James: and that's fine, you know, and there's obviously amazing speed on it, but developers can leverage that. But as a client developers, I feel sad, but that's okay because. This, uh, dev box is exactly what you want. It's an, on-demand always ready machine cloud service machine in the cloud, ready to code workstation that I can hop into and I can organize machines by, you know, project basically is what I see in the screenshot. And I can say, here are my dev boxes. There's one for tests. There's one for engineering. I can install the tools that I want on a. Open it in the browser. Um, as well as, uh, it says it supports any ID, any SDK, any internal, anything that runs on windows, you can install, you can build desktop, mobile gaming. Um, you can use, um, WSL with it though. You can do anything you want. And since it's hosted in the cloud and you access them from anywhere, like directly in the browser, you can. Open it on windows, Mac, Android, iOS, browser, anything, and a machine is ready. So this is really cool where, you know, before I'm thinking this, which is like, I'm going to open up a VM, I'm going to do this thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, this there's some similarities there, but I think it's like, no, this is like, I feel like it's my developer cloud. Right. Which is like, and it's even, even it says here, it's like Microsoft developer portal. So I'm in my Microsoft developer portal online. And I have all my projects. I have other stuff in there maybe over time. I don't know. And then here are all my machines for my project. So this here's why they think this is cool. I work on a lot of different projects, Frank, and a lot of times I need to do. Backwards compatible machines. And I just want to get a snapshot and be like, here's my, my stream timer dev box. Here's my, you know, animal crossing dev box. Here's my, you know, my cadence dev box. And that's how I'm sort of thinking about it is they can be snapshots in time, but I think they're also looks like they're building into it, like a lot of security features for enterprises. So it's actually built into, um, Into Microsoft Azure. And it also has like compliance and security checks and all these things. So it can automatically patch things. It looks like to just kind of. [00:29:10] Frank: Yeah. I mean, that's the hard part here. Anyone can create a disk image that has a bunch of pirated software on it. I'm getting actual legitimate software where you're all licensed up correctly. And even more importantly, these boxes, they do seem like to be snapshots of a windows machine. So they could be talking to all sorts of network resources with various levels of authentication. And that kind of stuff, but I do want to start all this by saying, James, are you telling me not only did I just install windows on one machine, I'm going to be buying an arm 64 machine. I have to set that up. Now I have to set up a third machine that only lives in our cloud. Well, [00:29:47] James: James, now here's the thing. Let's say you hire somebody, Frank. They don't have to set up any machines. Here's how you think about this. Think about this, I'm going to blow your mind. Cause I'm reading, you know, as I read the blog post and I've read it a few times, and now I'm thinking about capabilities. Imagine you hire someone at your company and you need to onboard them. All you gotta do is clone your machine, your, your, your, your dev box. And you say, here's my base image of my dev box. And they're off to the races now. I don't know how it all works magically or something like there's configurations or something else, but yeah. Seems cool to me. I know. [00:30:24] Frank: Yeah, I think this is technology that you could roll yourself. You could maintain your own images and all that stuff, but you'd run into all those problems. I just mentioned previously. So this is a nice offering from them. I don't think it quite fits my lifestyle. I think when I'm paying for machines, by the minute I tend to freak out and it's just too much stress for me. So I'd much rather spend a thousand dollars on a machine rather than. A thousand dollars over the course of a year for an online machine, but I'm a weirdo. I have money issues. So I think for a corporations, exactly what you just said, like they're spending way more than that. So this is a really good setup. I wonder if this will actually help out, like, I don't know what she remembers your last enterprise job, but you know how you would always try to find. It's a simple server provision. So you could set up a dev server for a very simple site. You're trying to put up and just getting the dev server provisioned would take six months of bureaucracy and all that stuff. I do wonder if this would help out there. You're like, okay. I got my dev box approved. Now I can just put anything I want on it. Yeah, that'd be good. [00:31:28] James: I think so. I think that's the plan. I'm excited to see where it goes and I I've already signed up for the private preview, so I'm excited to get my hands on it whenever I do. And I can report back whenever I'm allowed to talk about it. When I get my hands on it. I mean, it sounds cool. It's like, you know, I do want things that simplify my life and I think the dev containers were a good step, but I'm thinking like, okay, as a presenter, could I have, you know, can I have like, This is the other situation I'm thinking of as a presenter. Sometimes I do these crazy demos, which is like, I'm going to show you every piece of technology ever in the entire world. Ha ha. Right. And I think about it as like, I'm going to have that as a, as a dev box, right? Like here's my keynote dev box. And it's like, [00:32:12] Frank: Yeah, and this row is fulfilling that role, but you know what? Docker containers don't work on Macs. I mean, they work, but it's a Linux box and they don't work on windows. And I mean, they do actually work on windows. You can do windows stuff, container, but no one does. So it's just one of those things where Docker's great for Linux, but this seems like a much better offering if you're a windows developer, especially because you did mention, um, that you could go back in time. A little bit, I don't know what kind of offering they're going to have for exact versions of windows and exact versions of tools. Um, but, uh, as someone who has six different macro S images running in virtual machines, I totally understand this problem. And I totally would rather be paying apple to have all those machines instead of this. And that's not even true. Apple has a thing $99 an hour. [00:33:04] James: Yeah. I'll just see it. Be excited to see where it goes. Yeah. Can I just like instantly be like, oh, let's just boom. Do this, you know, and. Just see how it goes. I'm excited. I'm always excited. Yeah. [00:33:15] Frank: Yeah. I want to jump to something that I wasn't really paying attention to from bill that just kind of caught my attention. And you actually mentioned it previously and I don't know anything about it, but I would like to do a whole episode on it. I just needed a. About it some more first, and this is the web assembly on the server technology Waze. They're calling it future possibilities for dotnet core and Waze web assembly on the server from Steve Sanderson, from Microsoft. It's a neat idea. It's an idea. We've all been kind of thinking about, uh, we've invented this thing called web assembly. It's yet another virtual machine. You had another sandbox environment in order, which to run apps. And I think people have been getting. Thinking that well, since it is a sandbox environment, and since it is a bit of a standard, why don't we use it for virtual machines and for virtual apps? And I don't know the details of this technology, but I think it's just basically roughly that we're going to use. WebAssembly not within the browser. We'd love to pull things out of the browser and just run it as, yeah. Um, the machine and it looks like there's going to be some dotnet support for that, because why not? If dotnet compiles down to WebAssembly, then it should have no problem running in that environment. Anyway, I think that that's a really cool future technology. Uh, the web's not going anywhere. Web assembly is not going anywhere. So you might as well learn about it and take advantage of [00:34:43] James: it where you can. Oh, totally. I mean, that was half of the excitement about. Don and Maui was the blazer hybrid components of it. Right. And I was on web assembly, but it's, there's the mix and match of, oh, now I can take my blazer app and web assembly. I can now put my blazer application in this thing and like, oh, maybe we can also do this. Why, you know, there's all these capabilities, basically that seem just. [00:35:10] Frank: And I am excited to do that. I mentioned many, many episodes ago. I wrote a little game and laser and the whole point of me writing that little game in blazer was I wanted to have it to test out a blazer and a Maui app. You know, me, I much prefer native apps, so I'll probably be doing kind of a more native Maui stuff, but I did want to give. Laser Maui. I don't know what the official name is. Sorry. I just keep calling it blazer, Maui. Uh, this is your blazer app running in a Maui shell so that you can run natively so that you can be an app. And I'm excited to try that technology out too. That was promoted quite a bit during build, but I still haven't tried it [00:35:50] James: out. Yeah, well, you know what I patented trademarked. And what was black? But I don't think it took off too much. [00:36:01] Frank: I wonder why it didn't take off Blaue [00:36:03] James: Blaue blazer Mallee. Blaue B [00:36:06] Frank: L a U I [00:36:08] James: E. Wow. It's like Kopari, but it's like Bliley [00:36:16] Frank: I am going to die in a week and we're going to see how much hate mail I get from the Microsoft fans. First. Same. Blaue wow. [00:36:26] James: I don't think marketing liked it very much. I think marketing was like, oh no, that's okay. Don't do that. [00:36:31] Frank: And have you done that on stage? Have you done that publicly? And I just did right now coming out. Okay. Blaue everyone we're calling them. is it is officially [00:36:41] James: called the blazer hybrid and blazer hybrid works in a variety of things such as Don and Maui and VPF, but the, it is the, the template is dynamic. [00:36:54] Frank: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I don't think I'll be doing this for API apps in the future, but, um, I do like writing web apps. And if you write a web app, you might as well turn it into a real app. So I do want to know how to use the technology, especially I think it's something that you can recommend to people who already just have a website. Things like that. I just want to stay up to date there to cost stay up-to-date on windows. Gotta stay up to date on the web. Thank goodness. Uh, dot net six is out, or we can finally start building our apps with it and just have everything working. Um, I'm happy. I'm happy. We're hitting, you know, you know why I'm actually sad on of it is because WT WDC is coming up in few weeks and we are entering beta summer. But James, we have these beautiful three or to four weeks of stability before all the dotnet seven previous come out, the new visual studio previous come out, all that stuff. So I'm just going to enjoy my one month. Of stability here before the fall beta. Yeah. [00:38:00] James: There's a lot of excitement happening. I'm going to wait for Don at comp. Oh, Danette comp was announced too. [00:38:07] Frank: Yeah. So it sounds like that'll be the official release date. Tools and it'll be dotnet seven. So my, how the time flies. [00:38:16] James: Oh, I don't, I think the tools will be done before that. I think Maddie and her bed, I think no, don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to say the month, but it's in a few months. [00:38:27] Frank: Okay. I did watch her session. I don't know how I got that confused. Then I thought, I thought [00:38:31] James: she was. August, but I guess November is also not that far from it, but I feel like, you know, the release cycles every three months, I think. Cause it, cause November, November, November, I'm going to, I'm just going to do math. This is on official math, but k.net, visual Dennis six and visual studio, 2022 launched GA November last year. Right? Donna comp. Yes. Three months later would be February seventeen.one launched. And then this week, last week, whatever 17 to launch three more months. So you think it's every three months, right? So then what's three months from now, June, July, August. So. Okay. [00:39:16] Frank: I I'm willing to say that. Um, uh, she does have a timeline in that video, so I recommend don't listen to us, go watch that video and see the timeline. Yeah. Um, because I believe there's also like a, uh, Maui 1.1 in there somewhere. Where they're just going to do, you know, fixes to whatever they learn in the first release. Oh [00:39:38] James: yeah. That's the hotness. So many, so many bug fixes are coming. [00:39:41] Frank: The ones are always the best from Microsoft. [00:39:44] James: Well, that's what I say, you know, always get started now, like in, you know, just get started, get moving, I'm ready to move and shake and I'm ready. I, um, um, I'll do another shout out if you aren't interested in any of our listeners. Don and Maui workshop for hour long tutorial. [00:40:01] Frank: I saw this epic, epic four hours with James. Do you do, do you go straight through, do you take any bathroom breaks? [00:40:09] James: Okay. Well, okay. Let's, let's do it inside baseball here. Okay. Inside side, whatever. And then we'll wrap this puppy up second and a pizza. Okay. Um, now I recorded that. I recorded that over two weeks. Okay. Good for you. But you will notice that I wore the same sweat. I picked a sweater, not a t-shirt that's an important distinguishing factor because you can put the sweatshirt over t-shirts right there aren't points where maybe you could see a change in that. But I did shave, like I tried to shave between before all of them. So there was some consistency, but there are some lighting colors and like I had tweaked different colors of the hue. Cause I was like, oh, look a little bit too orange Okanogan. Okay. Um, and then you can tell different times that I recorded because my lights in the background are on at different times, but stuff that you probably wouldn't pick up unless you told it here. And then I edited it all different hours. I was editing when I woke up at 6:00 AM until I started work and then on the weekends. And that was, you know, I spent about 40 hours on this. Yeah. [00:41:13] Frank: Yeah. I mean, if no one's ever done video editing before it's purely proportional to the length of the video. That's that's it, everything is a washout. So it would take me maybe four hours to do a 10 to 15 minute video. So doing a four hour video, even if. Sorry, even if you have facet, it still would take a couple days. Yeah. So it's a lot of our congratulations. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah. And I [00:41:43] James: was using Camtasia, which is, is really good for like 20 to 30, maybe one hour maximum videos. Once you get to two hours, every editors is like, oh, and give me a second. Give me a second. And then, you know, the render time of a four-hour video on a machine that's eight years old. Not usually have the hard drive space. I got the hard drive space. How big was it? You want to see how big that video was? That wasn't that big? It was about eight gigs. [00:42:08] Frank: Eight gigs. Okay. Okay. High compression. You export it at a high compression, then [00:42:13] James: 82% 82. Sorry. So 18% compression, 82% quality. [00:42:20] Frank: Interesting. At 10 ADP, 10 ADP. That's a good, that's a good. Yeah, not bad. I got, I got the majority of your backgrounds pretty still, or where you D you were doing the screen. Nevermind. Yeah. Yeah. It's still pretty static for video. [00:42:35] James: Yeah. And, and that just uses only the CPU, not the GPU because Camtasia doesn't use the GPO. So [00:42:43] Frank: I just, uh, I just write all my own compositing software using apple API APIs, and F sharp. How everyone produces a video. [00:42:52] James: I believe that is exactly how people produce videos. It seems like it's a great use of their time. [00:42:59] Frank: Just got to learn this functional programming language and 8,000 KPIs. Okay, let's go get you some pizza, James. I had fun. Did you have fun? I build, [00:43:07] James: I had found a bill. It was my best build since bill. [00:43:12] Frank: I do hope to go to a live one someday again, but for now. Good enough. Good enough. Online build. I was actually, [00:43:20] James: yes, I agree. James and Frank, go to belts, James and Frank go to build 20, 22. That's the name? Wonderful. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. Thanks our patrons and supporters for hanging out and our discord and listening to our random ones. I would do say this Frank in our discord, uh, we did a, we did a patron. We said nobody listens to this. And then many people responded that they do listen to this and to the extra bonus episodes. So thank you to everybody that not only listens to the very end of this podcast, but also in your patriotic. All the way to the end of our bonus episodes too, which is bananas. I can't believe you put up with more of this sound coming out of my mouth. Crazy. [00:44:05] Frank: I can. I think it's absolutely lovely and enjoyable. I think everyone has such great taste who listened to this podcast. Okay. [00:44:12] James: Well, on that note, that's going to do it for this week's merge conflict. So until next time on Jay's monster. And I'm [00:44:20] Frank: Frank Krueger. Thanks for listening. Peace.