NHIE – 1x07 TRANSCRIPT DANI: Welcome back to “Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast”. I’m Dani CLARA: and I’m Clara DANI: and today we will be discussing the seventh episode titled “Never Have I Ever… been a big fat liar” CLARA: We have not one, but two very lovely guests joining us today: Ramona Young who plays Eleanor Wong, and Lee Rodriguez who plays Fabiola Torres. Thank you for joining us ladies! RAMONA & Eleanor: WOOO Thanks for having us! Hi! CLARA: And I just have to say, I didn’t catch it on the recording, but when they were signing in and we didn’t see their faces yet, it still felt like we were talking to Eleanor and Fab. SO I really appreciate your commitment to your characters! LEE: That’s so funny! RAMONA: Yeah. We are our characters! LEE: We definitely are our characters! Especially like friendship-wise. RAMONA: Yeah for reals. LEE: We’re goofs. CLARA: Well Before we get too far into this episode, why don’t we let Joyce set things up for us? [Recap clip plays - confrontation where Eleanor’s mom creates the clusterfuck at the bake sale] DANI: So Clara, what did you think of this episode? CLARA: I love this episode! It’s funny, I was reading your notes and I will try not to steal your thunder. But I think this is one of my favourite episodes this season. Part of it is because there’s so much drama in it. When you have a comedy (I love comedies for being comedies), but I think the real meat of what you have in a comedic show is where you get to see the real human element and the real emotional centre. And there’s a lot of tat in this episode. I think seeing how much Eleanor wants her mom to be a mom, and how deeply incapable she is of that. You see so much of the history of the ways that Joyce has disappointed Eleanor in this episode in a very short span of time. That’s something that I think hits really hard. And then it’s nice for this journey that we’ve been on with Fab for seven episodes now of her coming to terms with being queer and then coming out to her mom, it felt like it was really nice to have that moment where it actually happened and some of the pressure was off. What about you? DANI: I think this is one of the more unpopular episodes of the season, but I think it’s because it’s so hard to watch. It’s definitely not my least favorite episode, but there are some pretty hard moments to watch. Eleanor’s mom coming back in the picture and just how she appears to have such a lack of awareness and emotional intelligence. Not only does she essentially out Fabiola, she also tells Devi’s dirty laundry to her mom, and well everyone attending the bake sale for that matter. They were these very hard moments to watch, and to top it, Joyce leaves again leaving Eleanor broken up over her all over again. I know Fabiola welcomes the excuse to come out to her mother, but it always sucks when people feel semi-forced to come out to a family member before they are ready. A good rule of thumb that I have for queer friends is asking them if they are out to family members or even other friends if i’m going to be around them. I’m sure we’ll get more into this later on. The episode also ends with Devi yet again choosing herself over her friends, and I definitely think there's a better way that she could have handled the impending situation. Lee, Ramona, what do you think about this episode? LEE: The Bakesale in particular, that scene was so intense to film. There was a lot going on. That scene, to film it, took a long time. Like, hours! RAMONA: Yeah it really did. And P.S., the actress that plays Joy, her name’s Jae, is actually the most sensitive, aware, smart, beautiful woman in real life. And I kinda feel bad for her because she had to play so much the opposite of herself on the show, but she’s actually such a great human being, and she gave us so much dating advice on the set. She knew so much and she is such a great mother in real life. LEE: I think that’s the same episode where we made the cookies, right?! RAMONA: yeah, that’s the one where we ate so much cookie dough. LEE: We ate so much cookie-dough. At first we were so excited, yeah we get to eat so much cookie-dough! This is going to be a great scene to film! Probably 4 or 5 takes in, we were sick of the cookie dough! RAMONA: Forcing ourselves to pop chocolate chips. LEE: And for continuity too. We had to eat the same amount that we ate from the start. It was bad. RAMONA: But I do have to say, filming-wise, although there was a lot going on, especially in the Bakesale scene (because there was so many people and we had such a short, tight schedule that filming was so difficult), but even so it was probably one of my most favourite episodes to film because of the story arc and what was happening with the characters and how serious these problems are coming into fruition into the show. So for me it was one of my most favourite episodes to film. CLARA: And I feel like, what you’re saying, it shocks me that this is one of the more unpopular episodes. I mean, I don’t know where you got that from Dani, first of all! DANI: I talked to a lot of people! CLARA: I think that’s… I understand what you’re saying that it’s hard to watch those things and I definitely have friends who can’t watch anything dramatic. Like “oh no, if there’s going to be any amount of awkwardness I can’t deal it”. They’re just too empathetic or something But I really love it and I will defend it. DANI: I personally like really uncomfortable moments in comedy, I think it really elevates it. LEE: Me too, it felt so normal filming it. Those awkward moments, it just felt so close to me. I just feel like I’m such an awkward human being so Fabiola was really not… her awkwardness definitely is a lot of my own awkwardness. RAMONA: And you were nervous about that scene. Right? About filming the coming out to the parents. LEE: I was, because I was alone. RAMONA: Yeah! We’re so used to filming scenes together that anytime we get a scene alone without Maitreyi or eachother, we freak out. We are like: What are we going to do! LEE: It’s so nerve-wracking. But I’m glad with how it turned out. CLARA: before we get into the episode too far, we’re gonna start us off with a short game of “Never Have I Ever,” which we basically have to do because that’s what the show demands. Our version is a little bit different than the standard one: there are no winners or losers, so we’re just going to answer every question with “I have” or “I’ve never” and if you’re listening and you want to tally up our scores, okay go ahead. Shall we get started? ALL: Yeah! DANI: So the first question is: Never Have I Ever… laughed so hard I peed myself LEE: I have RAMONA: I have! CLARA: I have. DANI: I actually haven’t. LEE: I have many moments that that’s been the case, not like a lot of pee, but a little pee! RAMONA: I’ve had both. I’ve had the pee where I thought it was little and I was trying to keep it little. And then I was like “no, no, it’s just all coming out. There’s no stopping” CLARA: Just a stream! DANI: I’ve definitely had those too! LEE: I haven’t had a laugh like that in a long time. Those pee-laughs. DANI: I’m more likely to if I’m scared or nervous. RAMONA: Oh that’s interesting! LEE: When you’re nervous? DANI: When you’re on a rollercoaster or something, the first time on a really crazy one, and right before you’re about to drop. RAMONA: Yeah, I could see that! CLARA: alright well: Never Have I Ever… thrown up because someone else did! LEE: I have not. RAMONA: I have not! LEE: I have gagged, at the sight of somebody throwing up. RAMONA: that stuff doesn’t bother me. DANI: I haven’t either. I’m pretty sure you have though right?! CLARA: Nor I. DANI: No? CLARA: Me?! No, I’m an emetophobic which means I don’t like to be around it! That doesn’t mean that I have an empathy barf, no I just don’t barf. I can count the number of times that I’ve barfed on one hand… CLOSE TO 40! RAMONA: So none of us have? Have you? LEE: No. RAMONA: None of us have. Wow. Good job ladies! DANI: Okay, next one: Never Have I Ever… been catfished LEE: I’m sure I have. In some sense. RAMONA: I feel like everyone’s a catfish to a degree. You know what I mean? We’re always not 100% truthful. Whether you’re avoiding how tall you are or you’re posting pictures with filters. So when is it considered a catfish or not a catfish? DANI: I feel like I consider it a catfish when they’re pretending to be an entirely different person. LEE: Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking too. If they’re completely not the person pictured. CLARA: Well I don’t think I’ve been catfished in that sense, but I have a story to tell about a douche-bag. You can tell me if you think it’s catfishing. Because I think it’s time for revenge. Right after college… I went to a women’s college. So when I moved to New York I was like: Okay, I’m on here to meet PEOPLE, period. And this guy had this whole MO, and I found this out much later. He wanted to find somebody who wanted to make friends—a girl who wanted to make friends on okayCupid, to MOCK THEM! And then sold it to CollegeHumour.com. LEE: That’s awful, that’s just cruel. CLARA: Yeah, so he’s a bag of dicks, but is he a catfisher? DANI: A little bit, I think a little bit. RAMONA: Wait, so on his ad or on his profile he just… CLARA: he acted like a normal human being, yeah. RAMONA: Oh that’s beyond cat-fishing that’s like fraud. That should be illegal. To post them on CollegeHumour to expose people like that. That’s so mean. CLARA: He posted my ADDRESS. Yeah. I actually moved before he did that, but— RAMONA: THAT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL! CLARA: -- yeah, that’s how I got them to take it down, because he posted my address! RAMONA: That’s humiliating, that’s effed up! CLARA: And then my ex-boyfriend broke up with me because of it. CLARA: I know! I’m glad to be rid of both of them. RAMONA: It’s true, you’re better off, honestly. DANI: I think I have. I think I have. I am not positive if I have. Lee: I’m not positive either. CLARA: So next question. Hopefully the answer is no! Never Have I Ever… catfished somebody else. LEE: I have not. RAMONA: Okay, I kinda have. Not like a specific person, but I’ve always wondered on dating apps. Feel free to judge me. I don’t care. But I met my boyfriend on Bumble. And I wondered, like… “huh, I wonder what kind of girls are like on Bumble” so I made a profile… LEE: I remember you saying this! She did this while we were filming! RAMONA: While I was filming! Just for fun-sies. I made a profile of me as the opposite sex so that I could swipe on girls and see who was on there. But I deleted it on the day of. But I don’t know if that’s considered cat-fishing or not. But I was curious! I was curious. And I was pretty impressed too. I was like “Dang, I have some stiff competition, there’s a lot of really good-looing girls out there” and then I deleted it. DANI: I was having a game-night one time with my friends, and I have a friend that’s married. And so both her and her husband were there, and they decided they were going to make separate Tinder profiles to mess with other people, just for fun! CLARA: WHAAAT?! RAMONA: That is effed up, but I get it. I get it. DANI: I feel like the thing with Tinder, no one really takes it all that seriously. It’s more of a hook-up app then it is a: “I want something real”. But I actually have cat-fished and it was more like in the old myspace days, I made an account to get back at some douchey guy, and I pretended to be a hot scene girl and mess with them and then let them down. LEE: Wait a damn minute! You just brought back such a memory. Okay. I have Catfished! RAMONA: the truth is we have all been catfishing people! LEE: I catfished too! When I was in middle school! That was in middle-school. It was in Myspace as well! And I was a scene girl! I remember pretending to be a scene-girl, I just thought they were so cool. RAMONA: What’s a scene-girl? DANI: You don’t know what a Scene-kid is? RAMONA: NO! Explain. LEE: It’s like… I can’t explain it. DANI: It’s like an emo with dark make-up— LEE: Okay, that’s what I was going to say! DANI: and edgy hair, like cut your hair with a razor blade. LEE: I always wanted to do that, I always wanted to cut my hair like that. There was this specific scene-girl and I was like “Oh my god she’s so cool!” And I also had my best friend, it was just this thing we did. We just followed eachother and we would comment on our old pages, so we looked like we had more friends. So I don’t think I was catfishing anybody. RAMONA: You were just making like fake… LEE: Fake friends. That’s what it was. CLARA: It actually occurs to me that I have done a form of cat-fishing… LEE: Exposed! CLARA: When I was in middle school we did prank calls which were basically the same! DANI: That’s similar. MySpace is crazy though, I miss it. RAMONA: I feel like my MySpace got deleted by MySpace, and I don’t know why. CLARA: Deleted by Tom! RAMONA: Yeah! I miss that. DANI: Tom is a crazy dude, he got almost arrested by the FBI for hacking. And It was like a humble hack, so they were like “mmm we’re going to let you go on that” it was super weird. CLARA: A humble hack?! DANI: You have to look into it! CLARA: Alright, homework: Figure out what Tom’s life is. DANI: Never Have I Ever… dated a coworker LEE: I have not. RAMONA: Let me think. I’ve done a lot of odd jobs. I don’t think I have either. CLARA: I have not, I have had crushes on coworkers. RAMONA: I have definitely had crushes (and trust me I’ve tried) but no. It never worked out. CLARA: Aww! DANI: I definitely have. I worked at Target for 5 years so they were basically the only people I knew. I ended up dating quite a few people from there. My last ex, my ex-girlfriend, I met her there. But she worked at the Starbucks. In the place. RAMONA: AWWW! That’s kind of a cute story DANI: It was pretty cute. But yeah when you work around the same people for a few years, you end up dating. CARA: See that’s why I never ended up doing it. I had like a hard line there. Because it’s like: If I have to see you in the office… I’ve had some bad breakups right? I don’t want to deal with that and my paycheck at the same time. RAMONA: I’ve always been taught: Don’t shit where you eat! LEE: Yeah! Or don’t mix pleasure with business. RAMONA: That’s what I’ve been taught and I’m going to stick to it because it’s been working for me. So we’ll see how that goes. LEE: I’ve never even had a crush! RAMONA: WHAAAT?! LEE: I don’t know, I feel like I really don’t mix business with pleasure. Even if I find them super attractive. I just… look past it. RAMONA: Never say never! LEE: That’s true, never say never! Who I work with. There’s certain people I would make exceptions for. RAMONA: What if you work with like your… LEE: celebrity crush? RAMONA: Yeah, like your celebrity crush?! And they happen to be single. DANI: It’s like a hall pass! LEE: No! I still wouldn’t. RAMONA: If you’re stuck on set together for like 15 hours a day for like 5 months. LEE: I don’t know. RAMONA: You never know, man. CLARA: I feel like, there are so many celebrity couples who met on set and got married and then horribly divorced. DANI: Like Miley Cyrus and Liam Hemsworth. RAMONA: I know LEE: It doesn’t work RAMONA: I know DANI: Some of them work… Freddie Prinze Jr and Sarah Michelle Gellar are still going strong! RAMONA: They’ve been together forever! DANI: Yeah, like 20 years at least. RAMONA: Who else? There’s a bunch of people. I don’t know. I feel like I feel weird and quirky and off enough in this industry that I kinda want someone more stable. LEE: Me too. RAMONA: Yeah CLARA: I recommend sound engineers. I am married to one. Very stable human beings! RAMONA: Aww, that’s great! CLARA: Alright so we kind of got an answer from you on this Ramona, but Never Have I Ever… lied on a dating app RAMONA: Oh… LEE: I’ve not RAMONA: You have not?! LEE: No RAMONA: What the heck?! DANI: I actually have not either. Like I’m usually pretty… if I’m on a dating app I want to meet people that like me for me. So I’m just 100% authentic about it. RAMONA: That’s awesome. CLARA: Yeah. I mean I think there’s certain parts you highlight of yourself. But no I haven’t lied on a dating app. RAMONA: Alright then, I guess I’ll just… get on out of here! CLARA: This is a judgement-free zone! DANI: Next one is Never Have I Ever… made an embarrassing video LEE: Oh yeah. Oh yeah! So many. RAMONA: Oh yeah! LEE: Me and Ramona actually made a… not too embarrassing, but a little embarrassing video the other day. We did a rap battle. RAMONA: Oh no! DANI: I want to see! CLARA: Oh my god! You have to send that to us somehow. Post on Instagram! LEE: That was a very good example! RAMONA: It was a very good example. LEE: I don’t remember. Ramona won. RAMONA: I don’t know who won. LEE: I think you did! RAMONA: Lee’s a very good free-style LEE: You got me though! RAMONA: Maybe! LEE: I can admit it! RAMONA: It was fun. DANI: That’s great. I definitely have, I’ve made many. CLARA: I don’t think it’s possible to get through life without making an embarrassing video, especially when everyone has cameras on their cell phones, right? It’s just too tempting. DANI: I guess the real question is: have you ever actually posted an embarrassing video and then later like… WHEW. LEE: I’m sure, yeah. RAMONA: There are videos that I would be embarrassed about now that I posted at the time that I was like “haha I’m so cool” but now I’m like “Oh my god what was I thinking?!” LEE: I know, I have a YouTube channel that I don’t know how to delete. And I have… RAMONA: I’ve seen it. DANI: I have a few too! LEE: Just me talking to the camera and thinking I was like… RAMONA: Singing! CLARA: Oh yeah! RAMONA: Thought I was so good at singing. DANI: Also I feel like when YouTube was first getting big, everyone was just talking shit about other people. That’s what was popular on YouTube. SO I know I have one out there that’s like “What?!” You don’t remember that? Say when Miley Cyrus was super popular on YouTube and she had her— CLARA: I didn’t know she was every super popular on YouTube! RAMONA: Lee knows what you’re saying! LEE: NOOOOO! Okay yeah. I have to admit something. Okay? Fine. FINE! Me and Ramona were having a conversation the other day about people who just send you mean stuff. RAMONA: Take time out of their lives to send you mean… LEE: Like comments, and I’m like “Who does that?! Who has the time to do that?!” And I had this moment, “I’ve done that before!” I remember I did it one time, I regretted it the second I did it. I saw everyone doing it, and I was young, maybe 11, 12. I was like “oh everyone’s hitting on this person so let me leave a comment”. After I completely flipped the script, and I was all “I love you I’m so sorry!” RAMONA: You felt so bad! Yeah. CLARA: Have you seen, a couple years ago Sarah Silverman was interacting with someone on Twitter and somebody said something really hateful to her and she responded in a very classy way and then they had a conversation and had a mediation and then sort of became friends. RAMONA: I do remember that, it was something about therapy, or getting help if you need it if you’re sad. And the hater was like “Oh I actually am feeling bad, I didn’t mean to be hateful” and then they became friends! LEE: just being young you see it so much. Even now it’s younger people creating the troll accounts and commenting hateful weird comments. And it’s just because they see other people doing it. RAMONA: I feel like they are still experimenting with consequences of communicating certain ways. They don’t know the consequences: “oh you can hurt someone if you say something” LEE: Yeah and they will probably see it. RAMONA: Eventually they get it but it’s a learning experience. CLARA: Well I think I have an answer to the original question so I … I’ve definitely made an embarrassing video or a hundred. It’s the same thing you were saying, I was never embarrassed at the time and it’s afterwards that I was like “oh my god I was so sincere and so pathetic. Why did I put that up?!” I think about… before we had our first podcast we were just big fans of the Magicians. Do you remember that birthday video we made for Jason, for the star? DANI: Ugh. Yes! CLARA: Oh my god it’s still up and I still see my super-sincere face being like “thank you so much for bringing this character to life, happy birthday!” I can’t believe I did that and it’s there for posterity! RAMONA: I’m sure they loved it though, to be honest. They probably appreciated that. CLARA: Well I hope so, I hope so. DANI: That was an interesting time. CLARA: Never Have I Ever… written fanfiction LEE: I have not. RAMONA: Hmmmm. Fanfiction. I have not. I tend to make up my own stories rather than FanFic. So that I’ve done, but FanFic itself I don’t think I have. DANI: I have, I’ve never been very good at it though, and I always abandon it. Like “I’m going to make this multi-chapter fic” and then abandon it a couple weeks later, never come back. CLARA: I did a couple Harry Potter journals in my Harry Potter LiveJournal community a few years ago. But mostly I don’t get into the fanfiction too much. But I did write one full on fanfiction when I was in highschool or early college over the summer, which was Star Trek fanfiction where… yeah. Yeah I know I’m such a nerd. Where the Vulcans and the Borg came from a similar origin story. Super Nerdy. RAMONA: No that sounds good, that sounds interesting actually. DANI: Fanfiction can be really good but most of it is questionable. RAMONA: I have read fanfiction and some of the stuff is like “dang, this is better than the original stuff” DANI: Yeah! CLARA: Have you ever read fanfiction about a character you’ve played? LEE: I haven’t thought about reading fanfiction for someone I’ve played RAMONA: I don’t think anyone’s ever written fanfiction about someone I’ve played. CLARA: They have! DANI: I’m going to bring it up later, so we will save it for that. RAMONA: Okay! DANI: Never have I ever… been to a strip club. LEE: I have not. RAMONA: Duh, yeah, I definitely have. CLARA: I don’t think that I have, I feel like I would know. LEE: I feel so uncool! RAMONA: You’re not missing out, you’re fine. LEE: I want to at least say I’ve been to a stripclub! RAMONA: I’ll bring you to a Chippendales show! CLARA: I wonder if they do those over zoom now. RAMONA: I know some places do like drive-by strip clubs. LEE: That’s so funny, they just get out of their car! RAMONA: Yeah, or they just watch from their cars. DANI: Oh, a pop-up strip club! CLARA: Strip in your Window or something. DANI: I haven’t been to a stripclub but I do have sort of a funny thing. I saw the first magic mike in theaters with my mom, and the second one with my grandma, great aunt, and cousins. And we were completely drunk off margaritas.. So that was an experience. RAMONA: Aww, that sounds fantastic! LEE: That’s fun! CLARA: I saw… what’s that movie called? The one where she gets jizz in her hair! DANI: There’s something about Mary? CLARA: Yes! I saw that with my Dad, I didn’t know what it was. I was like 15. It was the most humiliating experience of my life. RAMONA: Oh that’s not too bad! LEE: What was that one movie we watched?! RAMONA: Oh no! No Lee stop it! You shouldn’t be bringing anything up! LEE: It’s on topic! RAMONA: Okay… no it’s not! It has nothing to do with strippers! LEE: That’s true. RAMONA: We watched this movie, this French Avante-Garde movie called LOVE together. It was on Netflix. LEE: We didn’t know what it was, how intense it was going to be. RAMONA: it was literally like… porn. It was literally porn. We spent 2 hours together watching porn. That was what it was. LEE: Yeah, we didn’t know. RAMONA: It was a good movie, but it was very, very… LEE: It was beautifully, very beautifully… RAMONA: Very beautiful, very pornographic. DANI: I have two very funny stories like that. For one I saw Fifty Shades of Grey with my Grandma as well. See I see a lot of movies with my grandma because— CLARA: I have met her Grandma and this is so hilarious to me! DANI: My grandma is… she’s something else. She made me take her to see one of the twilight movies so she could Ogle Jacob with his shirt off. RAMONA: OHHH MY GOD! LEE: Yes. Yes! DANI: So I love my Grandma! LEE: I love your Grandma! RAMONA: I love her too! DANI: She has your name! So. RAMONA: Aww! I bet you we would get along. LEE: You would probably get along with anyone’s grandma. RAMONA: Awwww, I hope so. That’s what I strive to do. DANI: Kind of similar to you guys watching the pornographic film, My dad rented a movie once, and it looked like a horror movie. And I was like “This movie is really weird” it had that softcore music going for it. And I was like “This is really weird” and then we noticed 15 minutes in it was definitely a softcore porn, and we turned it off, but it was so awkward. RAMONA: What was it, what was the movie?! DANI: I can’t remember but it was something like Killer Clowns on a camp or something. It seemed like such a knock-off of any kind of horror movie. CLARA: But whose porn fantasy is Killer Clowns? DANI: People have some weird fetishes! CLARA: Alright, no judgement! No Fetish shaming! Last one. Sort of related I guess. Never Have I Ever… been attracted to a cartoon character. LEE: I have. RAMONA: Who?! LEE: Okay. When I was younger, I had a crush on… what is their name? it’s the one… Jessica Rabbit, I had a crush on Jessica Rabbit. CLARA: My husband too! RAMONA: Of course, who wouldn’t?! LEE: I had a crush on Spongebob RAMON: What?! Okay that’s weird. DANI: that’s amazing! LEE: And I had a crush on porky the Pig. RAMONA: WHAT?! DANI: That’s too good! RAMONA: I am very shocked. DANI: What about you, have you had a crush on a cartoon character. RAMONA: I feel like I have but now my mind’s going black after hearing those answers. LEE: HEY! DANI: I have one, and I feel like a lot of girls I talk to do as well: Max from the Goofy Movie. I had a huge crush on him when I was younger. RAMONA: YES! LEE: Okay! DANI: And I had a weird crush on Ash from Pokemon, which now makes no sense because he is the worst character, but I had such a huge crush on him when I was really young. LEE: Okay I have to add one more. What’s that one—is it called Shark Tale? Is that the one with Will Smith? Shark Tale? DANI: yeah, I think so LEE: The one really hot fish RAMONA: That’s played by Angelina Jolie I think! LEE: With the lips? She was awesome. DANI: I actually have a really weird one, and since you’ve put your weird ones out there I probably should too LEE: Please! Help me out here. DANI: It’s Kovu from the Lion King 2. RAMONA: OHHHH! He was Scar’s son? Was that it? DANI: He wasn’t actually Scar’s son but he looked a lot like him. That whole movie is about segregation, it’s pretty deep. Yes, like Romeo and Juliet, but with Lions. CLARA: Which makes sense because the first one was Hamlet. RAMONA: Yes! DANI: I thought it was Macbeth? CLARA: No Hamlet. RAMONA: Definitely Hamlet. CLARA: This is going to sound like a really weird brag, but my uncle is the foremost Hamlet and Disney scholar in the country—or was until he retired. DANI: What do you mean? What does that mean? CLARA: It means that he is recognised for his expertise in both of those areas. So trust me when I say the original Lion King is adapted from Hamlet. RAMONA: Okay, what other Disney movies are adapted from Shakespeare. DANI: There aren’t a lot of Disney ones, but there are a lot of Movies in general. Like 10 Things I hate about you is The Taming of the Shrew. CLARA: Clueless is um— DANI: That’s Jane Austen. CLARA: Oh, you’re right you’re right. That is. DANI: There’s… what is it… She’s the Man. CLARA: Oh yeah which is um… RAMONA: Much Ado about Nothing DANI: Yeah. And then there’s one that’s my favourite, it’s more meta though. It’s called Get Over It, and within the movie they do a musical of Midsummer Night’s Dream. And it has Kirsten Dunst and Shane West and my favourite is Sisqo is in that movie! RAMONA: What the heck, the rapper?! DANI: Yes! DANI: And Tom Hanks’ son! Not Chet, the other one. CLARA: One of my favourite movies as a kid is based on The Tempest… Forbidden Planet. It’s an old Sci-fi movie from 1960-something. It was the highest budget film of its era. Special Effects terrible by today’s standards. First fully electric film score. Lots of Theramins. But it’s based on The Tempest which is my favourite Shakespeare play. So. RAMONA: Cool DANI: Yes. Definitely recommend Get Over It, because it’s a classic. Definitely slept on. CLARA: Ramona, any cartoon Characters come to mind? RAMONA: Okay I’ve thought about it. LEE: Make them weird. RAMONA: I can’t think of any weird ones! CLARA: Did you have a crush on Olaf? LEE: I thought he was cute. RAMONA: No? I really liked… I had a crush on Sailor Moon. I thought Sailor Moon was super cute. But I can’t think of any weird ones. CLARA: I feel like I had a crush on Jasmine from Aladdin when I was a kid. RAMONA: Okay. Yeah. I mean who wouldn’t. LEE: I loved Mulan. DANI: Mulan. Belle. I loved Belle so much. RAMONA: Tarzan. Tarzan was cool. DANI: Tarzan was dope. LEE: Oooh TANGLED! The one dude— RAMONA: Flynn?! The sweet guy? He was cool! DANI: He looks a lot like the actor who voices him, Zachary Levi. So it’s winning. RAMONA: Spot on, I wonder if they probably based it off of him? DANI: Probably. At least a little bit. So let’s get into the interview portion. We actually had an overwhelming amount of listener questions come in, so we’ll try to get through as many as possible. I also just want to offer our congratulations on the show being renewed, the fans are honestly so pumped, but also sad it will probably be a long wait. The first question was asked by at least 4 different people: Other than Team Devi, do you ship Bevi or Daxton? How about you first, Lee? CLARA: Or Bexton! DANI: or Bexton, that’s the best one. LEE: I ship… okay. Oh no I can’t! RAMONA: Or Bexton, you can say Bexton. LEE: Yeah that’s tough, but we have to give people something the REAL. RAMONA: We have to be REAL. LEE: I’m going to be honest, no hard feelings to Darren or Jaren. But I am team Bevi. RAMONA: WHAT?! I did not know that. LEE: This is a kept secret. RAMONA: You know what? My Mom’s team Bevi. I’ll say that. DANI: if you listen to the other podcasts, I’ve laid out so much bevidence about how much I ship them. CLARA: She really does call it Bevidence. RAMONA: I love that! CLARA: Ramona, what about you?! In your head, Bevi, Daxton or Bexton? RAMONA: 100% Bexton. If I could choose that would be so entertaining. DANI: Wouldn’t that be the best endgame ever? That would just be such a plot-twist. RAMONA: They were just like: “Hey, forget about Devi, I’m in love with YOU Ben.” “Yes, I’m in love with YOU Paxton.” And they lived happily ever after. LEE: That would be such a plot twist DANI: No one would see it coming except for me. CLARA: Quite a few people also wanted to know what was your favorite scene to film, and what was your favorite scene over-all in the finished product? If there’s a difference int he scenes you filmed and the ones you liked watching. You first this time, Ramona. RAMONA: Okay, the first thing that came to mind when I thought of favourite scene, um… One of my favourite scenes in the show was when I saw Kamala and the Dad (Mohan) and they were on the Moped, and they were going down the windy road, it was a flashback scene. That scene made me cry so hard. LEE: Wait what Poorna’s character name? CLARA: Nalini RAMONA: Not Kamala, sorry, my bad. It was the scene where they were like driving down the coast at the beach and she was just thinking about selling the Moped and she was thinking about all her memories with it. That moved me so much. LEE: Nalini had a lot of really good moments. RAMONA: Yeah, she did Nalini. DANI: She does. CLARA: What about to film? RAMONA: To film… oooh there were so many good ones. Okay, any time me, Lee and Maitreyi are together, we always just laugh. Unless we go over time. My favourite scene was the Montage with the bears and the sex scenes. And doing the Kegels, I could not keep a straight face. Could not keep a straight face that whole day. LEE: Yeah they were getting mad at us. We were goofing off. We were just laughing. RAMONA: We could not stop laughing. LEE: We could not keep it together. It was a fun day though. RAMONA: I loved it. CLARA: What about you Lee? LEE: I have so many scenes that are really nice to watch. Trying to think about the scene that really, really touched. I know that there… Okay I know that Nalini had a lot of amazing moments. AAAH Come on! There has to be one! Um. I really loved… I can’t think! My favourite scene… okay I’m just going to say my favourite… I’m milking this, I can’t think of what’s my favourite scene! RAMONA: there’s too many! LEE: Yeah there were a lot of really good moments. I know it was one with Devi! OH OH Okay! It was the moment with Devi and Mohan, the first time she saw Mohan. LEE: And, yeah, it was her dream. I think that was really touching. RAMONA: Wait, the one where she thought she saw her dad and it was her uncle? LEE: No. DANI: Was it the one where Ben had called her an un-fuckable nerd? And then she sees her Dad and he says “you’re beautiful”? CLARA: And he’s watching John McEnroe on TV. LEE: That’s that episode! Yeah! I think it’s the first episode? RAMONA: Oh it’s the first! LEE: Oh wow. Yeah it’s the first episode, that scene tied that episode together so beautifully. And then my favourite scene to film would probably be the TikToK dancing one. Everyone had a good time to learning the dance. We were so committed to getting the moves down and filming it. We were so hyped. Everybody, the crew, we were all dancing and everyone was so excited to see the dance. And I felt like we were in a little talent show, it was so fun! DANI: That was a really fun one to see come together. So another popular question is: What do you hope for your characters next season, and some hopes for the second season in general. RAMONA: Something that I want to see Eleanor go through is: what if her Mom comes back again after failing as an actress, except this time Eleanor has to learn the hard way to not let her back in. How is she going to emotionally deal with that in a way that is mature. And another thing I want to see for Eleanor is I want to see some Love Drama. I feel like she is too stable in her relationships and I want to see some stuff go down. LEE: Yeah, some drama with Eleanor. RAMONA: Yeah. LEE: I want Eleanor to have a narrator! CLARA: Yes! We were talking about this! DANI: That’s one of our questions for later! LEE: I NEED Eleanor to have a narrator, I want to know what a day in the life is like for Eleanor. RAMONA: Same. Same with Fabiola. It would be cool if every character started to have narrators. CLARA: I think we should punch that question up, I don’t know where it is, but I think we should just jump into it. DANI: Yeah, so I was going to ask— one of the questions later on was: if you had your own stand-alone episode, who would you WANT to voice you? LEE: Somebody actually tweeted that, who they thought should voice Fabiola and Eleanor. I forgot who they said. DANI: For mine I said (I think during our first episode), if Eleanor had one, I think I’d want it to be Awkwafina. RAMONA: That’s exactly who I was thinking! DANI: Awkwafina or Constance Wu would be good. RAMONA: Oh my god, yes! LEE: That was the one that somebody tweeted. RAMONA: Yeah. Who did they say for you? LEE: Okay, she was in the Harley Quinn movie. The new Harley Quinn movie. RAMONA: Who, Margot Robbie? DANI: Was it the Black Canary? LEE: She was the cop. CLARA: Oh, the cop! I remember. RAMONA: Viola Davis? Wait no. DANI: I think a great one for Fabiola would be Tessa Thompson, because she’s queer in real-life and she’s also afro-latina. RAMONA: That would be badass because I love her. LEE: I would love that. I hope that they get her. CLARA: I’m going to throw one more in there which is Tawny Newsome. I think she would be great. RAMONA: What is she in? CLARA: She was in Spaceforce. She’s in a lot of stuff, but she’s in Spaceforce most recently. She plays the helicopter captain. LEE: We’re looking it up, Tawny… CLARA: She’s been in Bajillion dollar properties. If you’ve watched that. RAMONA: OOOH she kinda loos like you! LEE: oooooh CLARA: She’s really funny, she’s a comedian, that’s her background. LEE: That’s good. I like that. I like those options. RAMONA: Yeah, thanks for the recommendations. CLARA: I’ve lost where I am in the script… OH! Audition stories, tell us your audition stories. RAMONA: I’ll tell, my story is not that fascinating. Just a run-of-the-mill audition of the day. I went in and there were a bunch of other people in the audition room practising their lines silently to themselves and I sat there and I watched them, and I was like… LEE: You watched them?! RAMONA: I was like HEH HEH HEH I’m going to go in and I’m going to get this. And I went in. And I did my scene and the funny thing was after I was cast, Lang was like “we watched your audition tape, and nobody, NOBODY! Was as weird as you, and we just knew that you were Eleanor.” And I was like “Thank you” CLARA: We love that! What about you Lee? LEE: Okay, mine’s.. I did a self-tape audition with my manager, And I remember in the description it said that Fabiola dressed like a helpful Honda guy. So I got an oversized blue Polo, didn’t fit me, I got it from a thrift store. Yeah, I did a self-tape audition, I honestly thought I did so terrible, I kind of forgot about the audition afterwards, I was like “yeah okay… That was a cool one”. But it left my mind because I didn’t really think I would get it—that’s bad to say! But I didn’t think much of it. Until a week later when they said “oh! They want to offer you the role! Do you want to do it?” and I was like “… really? They want ME?!” RAMONA: P.S., I’ve seen Lee’s audition video and she killed it. So I don’t know what she’s talking about. DANI: We want to know what your favourite thing about your character is and if you relate to them. So Lee, why don’t you go first. LEE: She can be a little intense, a little nervous and awkward. I would say she’s pretty confident in her Polos and Overalls. She just rocks it. Honestly I feel like Fabiola thinks she’s the shit. I’m not going to lie. I feel like she’s pretty confident dress-wise and appearance-wise and she’s in robotics and all that. I mean I can’t really relate to that. But I appreciate it. I relate to her awkwardness, to her intense-ness and how she anticipates coming out. I anticipate EVERYTHING. If it’s something big, especially like that, I think it over and over and over and over. It takes me a while to say things, because I anticipate a lot. I definitely relate with her in that sense. RAMONA: You’re also super supportive as a friend, and Fabiola is super supportive. LEE: Yeah. RAMONA: the thing I love about Eleanor is her sense of fashion. Her fashion-sense is… CLARA: She has the best clothes. RAMONA: She does! I want to take everything that she wears. And her courage to just be flamboyant and theatrical. She’s not afraid to be big and expressive and I love that about her. Something that I relate to her about is that I think underneath it all, Eleanor is a very sensitive, soft person and soul/friend. I feel like I relate to that. CLARA: Okay, so one of your costars. One of the members of the hot pocket wants to know which hot pocket member is your favourite. LEE: Oh. TRENT! Ramona: Trent. CLARA: That’s Dani’s favourite too! RAMONA: SO funny! He’s so funny! LEE: I love him. DANI: Trent is great. It was actually Dylan who asked that question so— RAMONA: I knew it! LEE: I knew it, I knew it. RAMONA: Dylan! LEE: He wanted us to say him. RAMONA: I knew he was like, “Oh please say DYLAN!” LEE: We love Dylan! RAMONA: We hang out with Dylan all the time, we love Dylan. DANI: He’s definitely trying to bait you. CLARA: If NHIE was to have a musical episode, what would you want your character to sing? RAMONA: Like a musical song that already exists? Or our own song? DANI: Probably a musical song that already exists. LEE: Not an original? CLARA: I mean if you want to sing an original! LEE: I would sing: Meeeeemoryyyyyy all alooooone in the moooooonlight RAMONA: Is that Cats? CLARA: Yeah. RAMONA: I would sing: Think of me, think of me fondly… phantom of the opera. LEE: And you know what I would also sing another one RAMONA: Oh yeah, bring it on! LEE: On my own… pretending he’s beside me. RAMONA: What is that, from Les Mis? CLARA: It is from les Mis! RAMONA: what’s that song that’s like “Tiger dreams” LEE: WHAT? CLARA: WHAT?! DANI: The lion sleeps at night? RAMONA: No, never mind… move on, move on! DANI: I jokingly said a couple episodes ago that Eleanor should sing a version of Reindeers are better than people, but it would be Robots are better than people about Fabiola. LEE: That’s so clever! RAMONA: Awww! I love that! DANI: I’ve heard that Mindy and Lang were pretty collaborative with the actors while creating the characters, what was that like for you, and is there anything interesting about that that you’d like to say? RAMONA: Okay. I don’t know if this is a conspiracy, but I once posted a picture of Tennessee Williams on my Instagram, and then there was this scene where I had to audition for a play in Never Have I Ever, and that scene was from Tennessee Williams! And I was like “AH AH AH!” I think DANI: Ramona’s Lash is falling off! CLARA: Well I think Ramona just fell off! RAMONA: I’m falling apart! Just keep going! LEE: Wait, can we get a side-view? Turn sideways. Do a profile. Just trying to show how much the lash is coming off. Okay, anyways. My “how they were collaborative” story, and kind similar in my own conspiracy is that my Dad on the show’s name is Victor. And my dad’s name is Victor. So I feel like they did some digging. RAMONA: I feel like they know everything about us. LEE: I feel like they did some digging! RAMONA: I’m just going to pull this off, I’ve been wearing it all day. DANI: I noticed a couple of the characters are like that. Mr. Shapiro is played by Adam Shapiro. The drama Teacher RAMONA: Shreiker! DANI: Yeah! CLARA: I always side-eye that stuff a little but on TV Shows! DANI: I feel like they were written for them RAMONA: And then Paxton’s character wasn’t half-Japanese and then they made him half-Japanese because Darren’s half-Japanese. There’s a lot of interesting little Trivia. LEE: And then the after thing. Like after-movie? CLARA: Yes! DANI: The after-book! RAMONA: Oh yeah what’s that from? LEE: Because Darren, a lot of fans of the After Books wanted Darren to play… I forgot his name, but they had… okay Devi was in the bedroom and she was reading one of the After books RAMONA: Yeah! LEE: in the dream sequence. RAMONA: I am mind-blown. LEE: They’re good! DANI: Yeah that was pretty good one. I noticed it right away! But a lot of people didn’t, they were like “I don’t know what you’re talking about” RAMONA: Yeah, that’s crazy I didn’t know. CLARA: Weird flex, Dani, weird flex! Okay. What song would you say was your high school anthem? LEE: Depends, which part of high-school? 9th-10th? Or 11th-12th? In 9th-10th I liked Alicia Keys… I liked some T-Swizzle. Then 11th and 12th I was very much listening to that bad bitch stuff, you know what I mean? Like… I don’t know, Cardi and Rihanna. Rihanna and some Hoodrat party songs. Honestly it was just the coolest thing to do in high school. RAMONA: Anthem, school anthem, hmmm. You know how you were stuck on that long question with your favourite scene? That’s how I feel with this song question! LEE: There’s so many songs! RAMONA: I’m just going to say: Barney, “I love you, you love me”. That’s my song. DANI: Good Choice! I have two questions, one for each of you that are both from my dear friend/ex - housemate Aileen (who is a Chinese-American badass), the first is for Ramona, “I am so impressed with the variety of projects she’s been a part of. What advice do you have for East and Southeast Asian actresses and actors trying to make it in Hollywood?” RAMONA: I guess going along my journey of acting, I’ve met a lot of other Asian-American actors and actresses who kind of use their ethnicity as a reason to not go for their dreams. Like “Oh I’m not going to make it because I’m Asian” or “No they’re not going to cast me because I’m Asian.” And I’ve heard that growing up, and even my family telling me “you’re trying to be an actress? You’re Asian. Hollywood has a type, a look that they go for.” Hearing that didn’t make me lose hope it made me want to fight harder. It made me want to go harder. I don’t know if it’s because I’m stubborn or whatever but I just never let any of that get in my way, and every time I heard that I’m like: “oh yeah? Well let me show you then. Watch this.” And I always never let that stop me or make me insecure. DANI: That’s good advice! The second question from Aileen is for Lee, “I read that Lee wants to become a screenwriter and promote stories of color. I do wonder what kind of storyline she’d imagine for Season 2, in regards to that and coming to terms with her sexuality as a black multi-racial queer woman? What she hopes the audience would gain from that storyline.” LEE: The question was, what if I were to write my own storyline? What would it be? DANI: Yeah. RAMONA: OOOH! LEE: We were actually talking about this. Being a multi-racial queer girl in high school and (by the end of the season) open. I would say I want to continue a real story of what that’s like in high school. And maybe her and Eve go through some hardships together? But they find a way to feel empowered and maybe become activists for LGBTQ rights in the community and maybe even start a club, or something along the lines of that which I think would be really empowering. Especially for young people going through the same thing. Seeing: They’re going through a hard time and this is what they did to empower themselves. That would be a great story. CLARA: They should let you write it! RAMONA: Well said, well said. DANI: That would be really awesome. I realised when I was watching the episode, I realised Fabiola only comes out to her mother, so I’m curious as to what that conversation would be like to her father and brother. LEE: Yeah, and she accidentally outed herself in front of the majority of the people at her school, especially the cool people at her high school. So I wonder what that’s going to be like when she goes to school. Also in the last episode when Eleanor, Fab, Eve, Gear Brosnan. Was Oliver there? Oliver was there right? DANI: Yeah. LEE: Oliver was there and Ben. Fabiola had her necklace, her rainbow necklace. RAMONA: Oh yeah! LEE: And I feel like that was her signifying that she was out and proud. Hopefully she can continue to be that. Out and proud. I just want the real story to continue on. DANI: Yeah, there’s a lot more story there. LEE: There’s so many different ways to go with it too. DANI: The next question is yours Clara. CLARA: Oh. Sorry I missed that one. Alright. What was high school like for you? Was it anything like what we see in the show? RAMONA: I grew up in a military family so I went to about 5 different high schools growing up. So high school was definitely different I’d say. Not just from Eleanor but also most people. And in High School, because of that experience with all the cliques, I’ve eaten my lunches in the bathroom stall. I’ve been the popular girl. I’ve been in the anime club. I’ve been in the sports team. I’ve done all the different cliques. I’ve been a Band Geek. I’ve been in Orchestra. Every different school was just different. A different experience. Depending on: who was in the school, which area of the school was in. So I had a pretty wild high school experience. DANI: I feel like that gives you a lot of material if you’re ever to write your own high school story. You know all these different sides to it. CLARA: Also as an actor! DANI: yeah. As an actor as well. RAMONA: For sure, I’d definitely try to utilise my experiences as much as possible. It might make an interesting book one day. I don’t know. LEE: I would say so. RAMONA: Thanks! CLARA: What about you Lee? LEE: My high school experience was a mixture of Fab’s, Eleanor’s, Devi’s. I had my awkward moments in high school, especially 9th grade. My high school was a performing arts high school, so really small school. The cool kids were the theatre heads, those were the cool kids! I was very much into theatre and I wanted to be part of plays. I auditioned and I would sing at Rallies, so I somewhat got some coolness. So I would say I was pretty well-known, but I stuck to my 2 friends. I always hang out in threes, as a friendship group. That’s what I always did. I would say I was well-know but also really introverted and very quirky and very awkward when I would talk to people one-on-one. DANI: Aww! That’s cool! I was a lot like that as well, I knew a lot of people, but I was very to myself and my group. So we always ask this question: what are your Hogwarts houses, and what do you think your character’s houses would be. I know that John McEnroe says they are all Hufflepuffs but I just can’t agree with that. RAMONA: What do you think they are? I want to know? CLARA: Whoa that’s an entirely different section! DANI: I mean, it is. But I think that Eleanor is a Hufflepuff for sure. I think Fabiola is a Ravenclaw. And I’m going to get controversial here and say I think Devi is a Slytherin and not a Gryffindor. ELEANOR: Oh I am seeing that for sure, I can see that. LEE: Yeah. DANI: Her braveness is a little too reckless to be a Gryffindor quality. CLARA: I think she’s aiming to be a Gryffindor but she hasn’t… I mean, I guess that’s what this episode is about. DANI: She’s the kind of person that says that they are? CLARA: No no. I think she wants to be, I think she does. She’s not actually brave enough to do that yet, she’s not brave enough to own who she is. And so instead she lies about it, she’s a little bit out for herself but I don’t think it comes from a bad place, I think it comes from her trying to figure out who she is and deal with her trauma. DANI: Well. Being a Slytherin is not a bad thing! RAMONA: Exactly! It doesn’t mean that you’re evil. And trust me my boyfriend reminds me of that every single day, because he’s a Slytherin, and he’s like “Slytherin are not bad, they like to scheme” and I’m like “okay, I get it, you’ve told me a million times. LEE: Do you know what your house is? RAMONA: Me? Yeah. I’ve taken the Pottermore quiz and I want to retake it and it won’t let me, and it says that I am a Hufflepuff like in real life. LEE: I can’t remember my house! I can’t remember, I literally just took it recently. RAMONA: I think you’re either a Gryffindor or a Ravenclaw. LEE: You know what? I think I remember being a Gryffindor last time I took it. RAMONA: I can see that. DANI: There’s actually a really cool one that I’ve seen where someone compiled all of the possible questions of Pottermore and put it in one quiz. You know how it branches off depending on what you say in the previous question? So this one compiles all of them and gives you a percentage for each house that you are. I thought it was really interesting. CLARA: That is a LOT! DANI: Yeah it’s a long quiz but I think it’s cool. CLARA: I think I’ve actually done that one but ages ago. RAMONA: I want to do it. I’m not convinced that I’m 100%-- I feel like I’m a Huffle-dor. But I’m not sure! CLARA: A Gryffin-puff! RAMONA: Yeah. Gryffin-puff. CLARA: We call one of my dogs a Grumple-puff because he’s always barking but he’s kinda a Hufflepuff otherwise. DANI: I can definitely send you guys a link for the full quiz. CLARA: We’ll send it to your publicist and they’ll be so confused! RAMONA: Put it on the twitter thing so people can take it. I can definitely do that, and DM one of you guys the actual link. CLARA: Alright, so we’re very close to the end of the interview. Related question: Do you know your astrological chart? Like sun, moon rising? RAMONA: Oh no LEE: No, no… I don’t know any of that. I know people who know it. RAMONA: Who are really into that, but I’m not. CLARA: When are your birthdays? LEE: November 28th CLARA: Is that saggitarius? LEE: Yeah that’s Saggitarius. RAMONA: My birthday is in August. CLARA: When in August? RAMONA: August 8th CLARA: Okay so you are Leo, that makes total sense. DANI: Yeah, I think it’s really interesting. Clara had never heard of it basically… CLARA: That’s not true! I had heard of it, I only knew my sun-sign. DANI: Yeah, and we went to a Psychic in Venice beach which was awesome. A lot of the times they bring out your birth chart and read your tarot cards and all that, because your birth chart basically gives them the insight to make those assumptions about you. But her mind was a little bit blown by how accurate it was. RAMONA: That’s so cool, what are your sun-sings? DANI: I’m a Capricorn CLARA: And I’m a Virgo RAMONA: Right on, right on. CLARA: Both earth signs. We send each other a lot of Earth sign memes. Alright, last one, right? DANI: Yes. So this isn’t actually a question, but I’ve been tasked with asking Ramona if she is aware of all the ships that have spawned for Eleanor on the internet. The most popular one is actually Paxton and Eleanor a la a High School Musical scenario, and another one is Trent and Eleanor. Have you heard of these, and what do you think about that? RAMONA: Wait, Trent and Eleanor would be great together. LEE: That’s actually a really good ship. We gotta contact Lang and Mindy right now. RAMONA: Yeah, these people are geniuses, I don’t know how they come up with that stuff. LEE: Trent and Eleanor, that is such a great ship! RAMONA: That’s so crazy! LEE: Wow. RAMONA: I’m for it. LEE: Me too. DANI: We have this theory that Trent is secretly a genius, so we think it would be really funny. CLARA: YOU have this theory! I don’t agree! DANI: You’re the one who put it in my mind! CLARA: No, I put it in your mind by saying I thought he was pure of heart, dumb of ass, and you were like “But he’s smart” DANI: No, he’s one of those people who seem like he’s kind of a little bit Book-smart? I mean he’s in AP History class. But he’s not common-sense smart. CLARA: She thinks he’s smart under the giant cloud of Marijuana smoke that surrounds him at all times. DANI: He reminds me of that character from the Good Place that guessed what the Good Place was because he was so high. CLARA: Oh shit, what was his name? DANI: I can’t remember it. CLARA: We’ll look it up later. RAMONA: I like the Trent and Eleanor ship. LEE: Yeah. RAMONA: I’ve never thought of that before. LEE: Treleanor. That would be so good. I would love that so much. RAMONA: That’s wild. Me too. I just want some romance happening! LEE: I really like that! DANI: I do feel like Eleanor would have a very dramatic break up with Eleanor. She doesn’t seem destined to be like: her first boyfriend is her everything CLARA: I feel like it’s not going to be a bad dramatic break up, her dramatic break up is going to be like: “I know that you’re so sad, but I promise you, your heart will go on!” and then she starts singing RAMONA: Yeah, and Oliver is like: Okay, that’s fine. DANI: He’d be like: That’s cool. Alright so we’re going to get into a deep-dive of the episode. The first thing I want to talk about regarding this episode is Jonah. For the most part I really like him. He was a friend and an ally to Fabiola in figuring things out and a friend for Eleanor as well. The thing though I’ve noticed is he really doesn’t seem to be too keen on Devi, and he definitely has good reasons to be that way, but what I find troubling is it feels kind of shady just how anti-Devi he is. Like Devi, she fucked up big time, and he’s right to be suss about her, but in the episode Eleanor says Jonah told them to cut Devi out because she’s toxic… and it feels like a little much for someone who just became their friend, and it seems like he may have gotten in their heads because the girls decide to take a friend break from her in the very next episode. I just don’t think it’s fair of him to immediately decide that, and I feel like since they mention that he said that, I’m sure it’s in Devi’s mind every single time she holds back what’s going on with her. I know I just got deep about this very small detail, but what do you think Clara? CLARA: First of all we were just talking about Hogwarts house. Jonah is clearly a Slytherin, 100%. I feel like he has his own reasons that go beyond the way that Devi treats Eleanor and Fab. Because she KMEW he was gay and was still like “I’m going to date him for status”, and I’m sure that got back to him, there’s nothing that doesn’t get back to you in High School. That’s a pretty shady move frankly. So I think he has very good reasons to be upset by her. I also kind of think that Eleanor and Fab are amplifying it in the way that they present it because they’re mad at Devi. So I’m not sure how much of it is him actually trying to cut Devi out versus him giving them advice like “you need to stand up for yourselves” and them being like “Mmmmm, we have a new friend now”. RAMONA: I think the line in it was: “Oh yeah, he’s applying that to YOU”, did I straight-forwardly say that, or did I say like “Oh I think CLARA: Yeah, you straight-forward said it DANI: Yeah, you said he straight-forward said it. RAMONA: Okay. Yeah. LEE: Okay, yeah. I don’t know, I never really thought about it to be honest. RAMONA: What is there to say? DANI: This is what we do, we pull apart all of the details. CLARA: I also feel that when you make a new friend and you’re bitching about another friend, and there’s none of that context. All they know is the negative things that you’re saying. So your new friend, I think there’s also a lot of pressure to agree and be supportive and sometimes you can go too far in that! RAMONA: Especially I think Jonah didn’t have a chance to see Devi’s side, and this is the Hufflepuff within me trying to defend him… but if he didn’t hear Devi’s side and he’s just hearing Fabiola and Eleanor’s current stress about Devi. I see that a new friend who is trying to be genuine is like “well maybe Devi’s not the best friend she can be”. I can see that. CLARA: I will put in one more NEVER HAVE I EVER question. Never have I ever trashed a friend’s ex only for them to get back together. DANI: I mean yeah. CLARA: Because it’s basically that situation, just without the romance. LEE: Yeah I had someone do that to me, trash one of my exes. RAMONA: And then you got back together? Damn, how’d you feel about your friend after that? LEE: Okay. You know when you’re really heartbroken about someone and you’re just talking about everything bad that they did to you, and then you get back together with them the next day? It was one of those “Oh… you made up”. DANI: I’ve had situations like that, but it was definitely a bit different. It was more of an abusive situation, so it was very much like… I didn’t ever hold it against her, I was always trying to be there for her. Mostly my friends are usually right about anyone I’m with. If they trash them they’re usually correct. RAMONA: Yeah, I feel like I have friends who break up with people who are toxic. And I never try to throw anyone under the bus. I’m like “Objective standpoint, this is what this person has done, this is how you feel, so maybe you guys aren’t compatible.” That’s how I always try to place it. But I have had situations where “well maybe you guys aren’t compatible” and they wind up together again. And I’m like “okay, I’m staying out of this completely. CLARA: I think what you’re talking about is the way it has to be, but you learn that later in life. Like bringing it back to Jonah, he’s also a 15 year old boy. I don’t know if he has the emotional maturity to play Therapist. DANI: There’s also the possibility that it’s coming from a place of: He’s been burned by somebody else. Projecting that. CLARA: I also think that he’s especially desperate to have Fab as a friend because she’s the only other gay person that he seems to know. RAMONA: That’s so true! DANI: Another thing we have to talk about is Eleanor’s mom obviously. She doesn’t seem to have a lot of emotional intelligence, which gets her into these hot water moments in the episode, she definitely speaks before she thinks and constantly makes excuses for her own behavior. I thought that there were moments in your performance Ramona, that were so nuanced and powerful. Is there anything you brought to this situation and dynamic that Eleanor has with her mother? RAMONA: Yeah absolutely, Eleanor’s relationship with her mum, I connect to very strongly personally. I grew up with a single parent. I have to say that my Mum being an immigrant and being a single parent, she had to sacrifice a lot of her dreams in order for me to have food on the table and for us to have a place to sleep. She was a Mom of three. It was very difficult for her, I feel for her, and I get the situation where you’re seeing your kid do so much better, and I’m sure a part of you feels like “I’ve had to sacrifice so much and I feel so unfulfilled, but I’ve had to out of obligation. And they only difference is Joy is what would happen if she gave up those responsibilities. Whereas my Mom didn’t, but I wouldn’t say that she was necessarily happy, you know what I mean? CLARA + DANI: Yeah. CLARA: One thing I want to picked up on when we were just talking is, I think Eleanor is so emotionally intelligent, but there is the speaking-before-you-think thing that I think she and her Mom have in common. There’s a couple of those moments, I mean there’s the one that we were just talking about with her blurting out that Jonah said to cut them out. But I think earlier, in maybe the first or second episode when they’re sitting at the lunch table and she makes this comment like “Now you’re not just going to be the person that everybody pities, Devi!” right? There’s a couple moments like that where you can actually see that she’s made a lot more strides and she’s dealing with her emotions in healthier ways, but here’s definitely some habits she gets from her Mom. RAMONA: Yeah, I think definitely Eleanor is a very dramatic and emotional person, and I feel like: Yeah, sometimes that gets in the way of her speaking logically before she speaks. DANI: I didn’t quite relate to exactly what was going on with her mother, but I also have a very strained relationship with my mother for so many reasons that I don’t feel like getting into at the moment, but I really took her storyline and I honestly feel like Eleanor doesn’t get enough credit or love on the show. CLARA: I think everybody loves her! I don’t know what you’re talking about DANI: You don’t talk to people the way that I talk to people about the show! Anyways, that’s between us. DANI: The more that I watch the show, the more that I notice little things about Eleanor that I just love so much. She’s so strong-willed and it takes so much for her to break… and it sucks that when she does break, Devi isn’t there for her. Do you have any thoughts on Eleanor and/or her relationship with her mother, Clara? CLARA: I have a complicated relationship with my Mom too, and I think a lot of people do on different levels, so there’s something there for almost everyone to relate. But I do think there’s a particular pain in feeling like your parent doesn’t see you or value you. I think we’re so conditioned to believe that we are the centre of our parents lives and that is definitely not the case for Eleanor, she definitely is not the centre of her Mom’s life. And I don’t necessarily think that’s a problem for her not to be the ABSOLUTE centre, but I do think her Mom is really unhealthy in the way she deals with it and unkind and self-centred… it’s not like she makes up for it in other ways. She just shows up and flakes and then Eleanor is left to hold the bag. DANI: Yeah, and I feel like that’s why it’s really hard for Eleanor to even form a relationship with her stepmother that she references quite a few times in the show. It seems like her stepmother is really trying and she’s just like “Mmmm… no”. So Lee, do you have any thoughts about the Eleanor storyline? LEE: Yeah, I want to see Eleanor’s dad. I understand he has a girlfriend as well. I want to see what her home life is like. I feel like it would be really awesome for there to be a day-in-the-life of Eleanor. I would love that. CLARA: I could see it being like… did you see Crazy Ex-girlfriend? LEE: No RAMONA: A little bit. CLARA: So when Greg talks about how terrible his family is and how awful they are, and takes… I’m blanking on her name, she’s the best character—he takes one of the other characters with him home for Christmas, and they’re so doting and loving and I could kind of see that being what’s going on in Eleanor’s home life. Because she’s got that gaping hole from her Mom that she probably can’t accept the love from anywhere else. LEE: Yeah I now want… Eleanor to be with Trent. CLARA: You’re still stuck on that! RAMONA: wow, we’re still on that! DANI: It is Joyce’s colossal screw up that brings us to our other important plot point and that is Fabiola coming out to her mother. She takes it in stride, but Fabiola is essentially forced to come out because of Eleanor’s mother or at least she feels a lot of pressure to. I’m really curious if she had that conversation with her father when she got home, because we don’t get to see that or if it’s a conversation we will see in the future. I kind of think her father knew that was what she was going to say at the family meeting. He kind of stopped her mother from continuing, and was like “Well, thank you for telling us”. LEE: Yeah, come to think of it, I feel like yeah, maybe he secretly knew. There was such a moment with the father too, such a look in his eyes. DANI: I feel like you can see just how much poise and care that you bring to the performance, Lee. What has playing Fabiola meant to you? How did you feel about her storyline throughout this episode or even overall? LEE: Playing Fabiola… I don’t know, she felt really, really close to me. Definitely a point in my life figuring out who I am. My interests. Being comfortable in my own skin, just being who I am out loud. And I feel like I’m still discovering myself. I mean, as a 20-year-old, a lot of the things she’s going through and how she was is kind of like how I am now. So playing Fabiola was pretty close to home and pretty close to me and how I am. So while filming I was so nervous always. It was my first big project and I was really, really happy with how everything turned out, and just people’s response to Fabiola as well. I feel like I learnt a lot from Fabiola. She definitely has a place in my heart. DANI: That’s great, how do you feel about her storyline as a whole, were you happy with how it ended up? LEE: I wanted to see them go on a freaking date! I wish they would have done that. Maybe in Season 2. RAMONA: Yeah, that would have been so cute! LEE: I need for Eve and Fabiola to go on a romantic date. Okay? MMHMM. DANI: I also want to see them go on a disastrous triple-date of some sort. CLARA: Oh my god, you mean with Eleanor and… well we’ll say Trent! And Devi and… I guess it’s probably Ben at this point. DANI: Who knows. LEE: I wouldn’t be surprised if Fabiola… she had this moment with Eve where she kinda blew up on Eve because Eve was kind of hinting… I wouldn’t be surprised… she’s barely open so I’m sure she’s going to still have those moments. DANI: It can be really tough for people who have been out for a while to have a relationship with somebody who just came out. CLARA: My impression is (granted this is an instinct from what little we have in the show), I feel like Eve was never really in the closet, right? She was one of those people who always felt comfortable in her skin. There were lots of queer people her parents age in her life. She was like “Okay, I’m just me and my parents fully accept me.” So I think it will be interesting to see her come up against that with somebody who didn’t have that experience. LEE: Hopefully she helps Fabiola through it and is a big support for her. That would be awesome. DANI: I would like that. I love the scene where Eve’s said she came out by tweeting “Me gay now!” CLARA: Oh yeah! LEE: That was such a beautiful scene, I love that scene! DANI: So Clara. What are some of your thoughts about Fabiola’s storyline, and her character? CLARA: I feel like you don’t even need to ask me that question because I talk about how Fabiola is my favourite character every single week. I love me a queer science nerd! That’s basically me! RAMONA: You just dressed like Fabiola! CLARA: I did! And I don’t actually cosplay ever, it’s just that I literally have these clothes because that’s who I am as a human being. But I think she’s just such a fantastic character and I love seeing her journey. I also just love a character who has to come to grips with her emotions, which I think is what Fabiola is a lot, right? It’s so fun and natural to me that her and Eleanor are besties. I feel like that’s all of my friendships. I’ve always been the cold, stand-offish one I guess… people tell me I’m intimidating and I find it very weird. They keep saying it, so it must be true! RAMONA: It’s not true, you’re the sweetest person ever! CLARA: thank you! I always have friends who are super emotional. Dani is probably the friend who is most like me that I’ve ever had. She’s also an earth sign! DANI: I’m definitely one of those people who have a resting bitch face, I get told all the time: “Man, I didn’t think you’d be so nice!” and it’s so off-putting when people say that kind of stuff. I’m just a super emotional person, just not on the surface. CLARA: You are. I know you guys aren’t into astrology but so many of my friends are cancers and I’m an earth sign. Cancers are the stereotypically cry-over-everything types. So I love that dynamic between Fab and Eleanor, and also I totally identify with the Fab side of that! I also think it’s a powerful journey, right? That is an important part of growing up, being able to open yourself up and be vulnerable. I love that we get to see that with a character who is a high-school character because frankly we don’t get that often! DANI: Yeah. So there are a lot of truths being told in this episode. Devi finally comes clean to her friends about Paxton. I’m curious if she hadn’t had to fess up because of her Mom, if she would have ever told them. Devi isn’t the best friend, but she’s also a teenager and most teenagers are living in their own world. I think I have two real friends left from that period of my life. I was so angry with Devi at the end of this episode for abandoning her friends, yet again. I feel like she really needs to just learn to be more up front. She should have told Paxton, “Hey, my best friend just got left by her Mom… again, and she needs me,” I feel like he would have understood. Or she could have called Paxton and been like “hey, what is it that you need, because this is going on.” and then she could have at least explained to her friends that she was needed for an hour tops to make it up to Paxton, and that they could meet up with them later at her house. I feel like Devi just doesn’t think these things through. It was definitely a catch 22 situation, but I feel like she just thought you know my friends will definitely forgive me, and she felt like her chance with Paxton was just not as good if she said no to him. She has a lot going on, and I really do feel for Devi, but she just doesn’t think things through sometimes. I’ve rambled about this, but Ramona, how do you feel about what happens between Devi and her friends? Have you ever been in a similar situation with a close friend? RAMONA: I definitely have had to make tough choices in my life where it’s one or the other? I guess… through that and through experiences you always learn how to say no to people. That’s something that’s so hard to do. I personally am a people-pleaser, and if I feel like I can do both I’m going to try to do both so that everyone’s happy, you know what I mean? I feel like Devi’s intentions are well, she honestly wanted to be like “Okay I’m just going to go there super-fast and then I’m gonna come back and I’m gonna do everything” without thinking “what if I can only manage one thing”. So I don’t feel like her intentions were bad, I just feel like sometimes people without that experience want to do everything and they try to do everything at a time and sometimes it just blows up in their faces. LEE: And sometimes, especially when you’re young and not being in that situation a lot, you want to go with the most tempting choice. It may not be the best choice… CLARA: but you can justify it in your head! LEE: Yeah the one that’s pulling at you the most. Her friends, she probably assumes they will just forgive her and they’ll understand because they’re her friends. It’s unfortunate but that’s what people do to the people they care about most, or the people who care about them the most. They kind of push their feelings aside and they kind of treat them bad before treating someone they like or are dating badly. DANI: It’s like: DO the thing first and try to ask for forgiveness later. RAMONA: And Devi is trying so hard to impress Paxton. She’s trying so hard to have him like her. LEE: I’ve been in both situations. RAMONA: Being both the friend and… LEE: Yeah, both picking the person I was dating over my friendship, and it was unintentional but I would definitely spend more time with the person I was with more than my friend, and my friend was like “Hey, you’re not hanging out with me as much” you know? I had to learn. With that experience there was a learning experience that you can’t just ditch your friends for someone you’re dating. It’s not cool. You have to have a good balance of both. Especially being a people-pleaser too and wanting to go with the best choice. It’s a tough situation, so honestly I had some relatability to Devi. Knowing she was not making the right choice but also understanding why she made that choice. It’s tough. RAMONA: And in the end Devi was right because Eleanor and Fabiola did forgive her. So… DANI: Only because Ben stepped in! CLARA: Don’t tell her! It’s really funny because I think it was interesting to hear you describe it as a catch 22… I wouldn’t say I’m not a people pleaser, I think I have some of those tendencies, But I think I am more comfortable saying no than a lot of other people. The ways I want to please people are different. And one of the things that I find a lot and I promise this is not said with judgement. I do think there’s an aspect of both the type of people-pleasing that I do, and the people-pleasing that you’re describing in Devi here that is about Ego. It’s about wanting to please everybody because you want to be the one to make everybody happy. Whereas she could totally say No to Paxton and he would totally understand. And then He’d find somebody else or they’d rescheduled. And she wouldn’t have made him as immediately happy in that moment by caving to him, but it would have been a move that had greater integrity overall and laid a foundation for a better relationship in the long term. DANI: It’s a bit different, but it reminds me of a situation where you get in, your ex texts you out of the blue and you know you shouldn’t reply, but you have to because you have to know what they have to say. LEE: Those are tough, juicy situations where all of your rational thinking just goes out the window and you just want to know. DANI: I hate what-ifs, so if I can get an answer to anything I’m going to choose that. CLARA: I think that’s a really good point, I think that’s part of what it is for Devi. Her thinking is: what if I don’t show up and this is my one chance with Paxton. DANI: Exactly, she thinks that’s the final straw with him. Whereas with her friends she thinks she still has some cards to play. CLARA: Right. The thing she’s not thinking with her friends that she should be is, what if I go hang out with Paxton and this is the time that my friend most needs me in all her life. So Devi I think you made the wrong choice, but also… we understand. DANI: So that was the meat of the plot for the episode, but I basically had some random thoughts: Trent and Eric are the best side characters, I love them. This episode actually made me want cookies when I rewatched it so I made some. But I already ate them all. It was a small batch though, I only made 6. RAMONA: What kind of cookies? DANI: I made oatmeal chocolate-chip. RAMONA: OOOOH healthy and delicious. LEE: I may have ate some of the cookies on set. RAMONA: Really?! LEE: Yeah! Secret. CLARA: Even after all that cookie dough? LEE: That was a different day. RAMONA: At the bakesale? LEE: At the bakesale! It was me and Maitreyi, It was the top of the scene. RAMONA: I’m pretty sure I dared you to eat a sprinkle or something. LEE: Probably RAMONA: And you did it! LEE: Maitreyi and I kept poking at this one cookie! DANI: Is it the kind of cookie that has soft cream on top? LEE: It might have been because it was a squishy cookie. CLARA: If you give Dani a sprinkle, she will only want a cookie. LEE + RAMONA: MMMMM DANI: That was a great sound bite there! CLARA: That was great! DANI: So does anybody have any more thoughts about this episode in particular or anything that you want to talk about before we move onto fashion? RAMONA: OH! Let’s move onto fashion! I’m ready! LEE: I don’t got anything. CLARA: Well I have to say we actually normally kick you out for fashion, but we’ll ask you one question first. DANI: We have two questions, but one’s not… RAMONA: Wait who are we kicking out? CLARA: We normally leave guests off for fashion—you can stay if you want, but it’s been almost 2 hours and I want to give you guys a chance to eat dinner! RAMONA: Oh! Okay, I was like “I’m ready to talk about fashion!” DANI: We have a chart that goes on basically because it’s just us going back and forth and it’s too much! RAMONA: I understand… Thank you for having us! CLARA: Hang on, we do have two fashion questions for you first. DANI: Before we say goodbye, if you could steal anyone’s wardrobe on the show, anyone regardless of gender, whose would it be? LEE: Eleanor’s RAMONA: Eleanor’s. Absolutely, Eleanor’s fashion. LEE: I love Eleanor’s fashion. Imagine: me and Ramona’s trailer doors are right next to eachother, we both come out at the same time. I come out in my every day same polo shirt, or similar polo shirt. Pants that were like… RAMONA: Like Khakis. And everyday I’m just popping out of my trailer like: AAAAAAAAH! LEE: So cute. I’m coming down the stairs like: God DAMMIT! I would definitely, DEFINITELY steal Eleanor’s, and I’m sure Ramona would also steal Eleanor’s. RAMONA: Eleanor’s fashion gave me life. LEE: Was the best fashion. DANI: I love it but I would never pull it off. RAMONA: Oh yes you can! CLARA: I actually kind of dressed like Eleanor in High School. I mean I didn’t have a fashion sense in general, but when I would dress up, I had this one floor-length yellow skirt that I loved and wore everywhere. Sunshine yellow. And I had a couple long-sleeve velvet shirts. Which I feel like are very Eleanor numbers. DANI: I was an all-black Emo kid when I was in high school. LEE: I didn’t know how to dress myself honestly. I didn’t know how to match clothes. I’m still trying to learn more about fashion. I’m not good with fashion. I’m very bad at pairing clothes. I need a stylist, honestly. I need a stylist for probably my everyday dressing. RAMONA: Wouldn’t that be nice? To have a stylist that dressed you everyday. LEE: I wish, because I do not know how to dress myself! CLARA: On twitter the other day, I saw somebody tweet: It is 20-fucking-20, where is my smart closet that picks my outfits everyday. DANI: The Clueless closet! RAMONA: That would be so nice. CLARA: The last thing before we have you go, is there anything that you want to plug to our audience? Anything not-NHIE that is coming up for you? RAMONA: No… LEE: Actually… RAMONA: Anything, anything! Come on, now’s the time! LEE: Okay, I’m coming out with some music. RAMONA: Lee’s coming out with some music! LEE: I’m dropping some music RAMONA: She’s dropping some music! LEE: And yeah, it will be out on all streaming platforms. RAMONA: Follow her, @LeeRodriguezz LEE: Two “Z”s at the end. Not one, two. Just keep up, keep up. Check up on it, I guess. That’s me plugging my music. RAMONA: I am writing a feature script. It’s called: Roha rises. I want to get it made, I want to get it produces, that’s my goal! I want to act in it, I want to get it done! Follow me on @RamonaBishYoung LEE: Is that the one that I read? RAMONA: Yeah LEE: It’s so good. SO GOOD! RAMONA: Lee’s vouching for it! LEE: So yeah, I can’t wait til that. RAMONA: gonna get it done. DANI: Excited for the future projects. I do want to say before we have you go, the hairstyle with the two buns that Eleanor wears in this episode is my FAVOURITE look. LEE: Wasn’t that your idea to do it like that? RAMONA: Oh yeah, they really let me creatively be like “What do you want to do with your hair today?!” So that was a lot of fun. CLARA: It’s because you’re the weirdest person they’ve ever seen! LEE: No one’s weirder than you, Ramona! CLARA: No one’s weirder! LEE: When we saw your tape, we just knew… no one was going to be as weird as you. RAMONA: You know what, it worked. Whatever works! DANI: It’s like the jughead quote: I’m weird, I’m a weirdo. RAMONA: Aaaaaand we’re out! CLARA: Yes, on that note! Thank you so, so much for joining us, this was a tonne of fun. I hope that we didn’t keep you so long that you’re hangry. RAMONA: No, this has been so much fun. Ciao! Have a great evening! Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you! ADVERT: Welcome to Slayerfestx98! I’m your host Ian Carlos Crawford. Slayerfestx98 is a Latinx-run queer-centred pop-culture Podcast. We discuss every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in order, but we also talk X-men, MCU, and everything else nerdy and/or gay. And sometimes I’m joined by… “Hi, I’m James Marsters”; “Trixie Matell!”; “Anthony Oliveira, hello!”; “Ming-Na Wen”; “Emily Nussbaum”; “Summer Bishil”; “Charisma Carpenter!”; “Kirsten White”; “Hi, Amber Benson!”; “LaToya Ferguson”; “It’s Clare Kramer!”; “Adam Seth”; “Jane Espenson, Hi!”; “Hi this is Stacey Abrams” We can be found on Spotify, GooglePlay, Podbean, Apple Podcasts and anywhere else podcasts are found. You can support us on Patreon. You can get access to our private facebook group, Patron-exclusive episodes and more. We can be found on all social platforms @Slayerfestx98. Make sure to say hi! Any and all support is much appreciated. Thanks! DANI: So let’s talk about fashion! CLARA: Of course! DANI: Trent is almost wearing the same partial Jean-jacket that Fabiola is wearing in the very next scene, it’s just a different colour hoodie. But I actually really like Fabiola’s outfit there. I also like Eleanor’s. I love Devi’s pyjamas in their sleepover scene! With her little hairband! CLARA: Oh my god! They’re so cute. DANI: It looks so warm. All of them are wearing full pyjamas CLARA: Flannel DANI: Yeah, basically! I love all of their pyjamas. I love Devi’s outfit when she visits Eleanor’s Mom with the pink shirt and the skinny jeans and the pink-reddish flannel that she has tied around her waist. Eleanor is definitely going for Britney Spears in the Baby one more time video with her pigtail braids. CLARA: Oh yeah. 100% DANI: Even similar outfit but just a different colour. Devi’s outfit here with the brown tartan pants, maroon shirt and black floral cardigan is NOT GOOD. I was like OOOH THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH. CLARA: You judge Devi’s outfits so hard! DANI: Devi and Ben are very similar in that they have really good pieces, they just don’t know how to put them together. CLARA: Is this part of your Bevidence? DANI: Definitely. They actually match a lot! They have similar clothes. Devi’s big brownish yellow cardigan, gray pocket shirt, skinny jeans. I love that outfit that she’s wearing during the bakesale. Fabiola’s tan jacket that she’s wearing towards the end of the episode, I love that one. And then Devi is wearing this vibrantly coloured sweater that has different colour blocks. And like I said to Ramona, I love Eleanor’s lemon shirt and her hair like that. I love the little pigtail buns that I could never do. I’ve tried so many times. CLARA: Well you took a lot of the outfits in this episode, but there were two that I wanted to call out, so: even though it’s just overalls and a buttoned-up-all-the-way-to-the-top dress-shirt, I love Fab’s outfit. Obviously to you, since I basically tried to recreate it: I also really like her mom’s dress that she wore under the apron at the Bakesale. And I feel like such an old lady saying this, but I’ve been shopping for sheath dresses for a while for the bookshop that I do interview events for, because they’re a little bit dressier. And that one was fire. They’re not exactly pleats, but I love the design on the collar. I thought it was really great. Devi’s high-waisted shorts are a real no-no to me. I actually think Devi dresses better than I think you do, in general, but I am so sick of all the high-waisted stuff. And part of this is I had to replace a bunch of my jeans, and of course we’re in quarantine so it’s not like I could go try jeans on, I just had to buy them, and everything is high-waisted right now. That’s the fashion. And I fucking hate it. Like, yes it doesn’t matter how much paunch you have—it will be hidden by the high-waisted jeans, but also it’s so uncomfortable. DANI: I love high-waisted stuff. CLARA: UGH! DANI: I mean, because of quarantine I’m not really wearing much of that, I’m pretty much just in sweats. CLARA: High-waisted stuff looks good, but it’s so deeply uncomfortable. And I have a very short waist. There’s three inches between my ribcage and my hips—maximum. DANI: Well, I’m really short so, I have the tiniest little frame. So for me I like high-waisted pants because they actually hold up better than anything else. CLARA: They do, and it’s the same thing right? Because they’re conformed to a different silhouette. DANI: As long as we never bring back low-rise jeans. CLARA: I like Low-rise jeans! DANI: NO! its butt-crack heaven! CLARA: Okay, but you are not curvy, I am a curvy person. Trust me it works differently when you have— DANI: That’s why normal length, Normal hip, normal hip… jeans… CLARA: Mid-rise! I mean that is the best, that is the best. DANI: Mid-rise! I do like high-waisted though, from a fashion standpoint I prefer High-waisted. CLARA: It looks good if you’re curvy. It looks good on anyone, but it is really uncomfortable to wear if you’re curvy. DANI: I do hate high-waisted shorts but that’s because I hate shorts in general. I HATE shorts! I don’t give a shit how hot I am, I’m not going to wear shorts. Unless they’re pyjama shorts, because otherwise they just ride up like nobody’s business and I’m just not a fan of it at all. CLARA: Alright. Well should we hit one-liners? DANI: I don’t have too many. Surprisingly. CLARA: You have like 7 or 8. DANI: Which is NOTHING compared to how many I usually have. CLARA: It’s true! This is a correct number! DANI: So the first one is: “Dammit, my raisinets. That’s where I get all my friggin vitamins” - Eric… I am guilty of things like this. I eat basically only junk. CLARA: You know there are no vitamins in hot Cheetos, right? DANI: There’s cheese. Cheese is an essential food group . The second one is: “When you said your ideal man is James Corden in Cats”— that’s Devi referencing Fabiola, and how she shouldn’t have been surprised that she was gay. And then Eleanor when she said to her mother: “Sharon took me to see Spamalot”. CLARA: I don’t even think I fully get the joke—I mean I get what the joke is meant to convey, but I don’t really know anything about Spamalot. I just love that they were both horrified. DANI: Yeah! And they Eleanor’s mum Joyce when she said: “I have excellent gaydar, I dated Nathan Lane for 3 years”, which I feel like a lot of people probably had no idea what she meant. And then Nalini when she says: “Love Lives? No, no, no. They’re too young for love, and frankly, to have a life”. CLARA: AH! That was SO good! DANI: Then not long after that she says to Devi: “Is it frank with the receding hair line? I knew it.” About white people flirting with her! CLARA: So I just want to step in here for one hot second and say that I’ve been noticing more and more; I really think Devi gets her sense of humour from her mom, from Nalini. DANI: Nalini is amazing, just her delivery of things. She’s so good. And then Devi when she screams out: “I’m a big virgin fraud!” It felt really similar to a line that I’ve heard in something else, but I can’t think of it. It’s like Mean Girls or Clueless or something but I can’t think of what the actual line is, but it feels really familiar. And then Fabiola’s Mom when she says: “I’m not embarrassed by your robots or your weird clothes”. CLARA: I was feeling really pleased when I saw yours because I had all totally different ones from my notes. So one is Jonah saying: “I’m a baby Buttigieg.” DANI: Boota-Gudje? I don’t know how to say that last name. CLARA: And then Eleanor: “Jonah’s really wise. He told me a bob haircut would allow me to play a child or an adult professional woman!” Also Eleanor: “Jonah said I should ignore her because she’s a liar who committed postal fraud.” And then Joyce: “Eleanor, please stop running away from me...even though it’s a very cinematic way to emote.” And Nalini: “Oh, I’m sorry, I was too busy saving my patients’ lives from melanoma. Think Mrs. Fields could do that?” and of course, Joy again: “That was an emotional ride. Where should I set up my cookies?” All in the delivery! DANI: Yes, that’s a good one! So now we’re onto MVPs. Mine was actually really hard to pick this time around. I really want to give it to Poorna because she’s absolutely such a scene stealer like when she gives the stare to Devi as she walks away after lecturing her that I just died during. And then in the chaos that is Eleanor’s mother, she smashes a cupcake in her hands... but shes only in like 3 scenes so it really doesn’t feel fair to give it to her but she definitely is a scene-stealer. I feel like I’m going to give it to Ramona though because she shows a lot of different range in this episode. There’s so much to her story that it really doesn’t feel like it’s thirty minutes. CLARA: I really wanted to give it to Lee because I feel like this is the culmination of her storyline in a lot of ways and I have really loved it. And as you know I’ve given previous episode MVPs to Lee. But I agree with you ultimately. I think I have to give it to Ramona, and for the reasons that you said. This episode really shows off her range. And even watching her face when Joyce tells Nalini that she came back to LA to be in Hollywood instead of saying it was because she missed her daughter. There’s a lot that goes into that one look, and I feel like that nuance is a big part of Ramona’s delivery throughout the entire episode and it’s kinda her episode anyway! DANI: Yeah, and I love how the parents are just so not happy to see Joyce after all these years. They’re like “ this bitch.” So our last topic! Last time we talked about disciplines, but I’ve seen a lot of posts on the internet putting NHIE characters into the wrong Hogwarts house, and so we’re gonna do it. CLARA: I like how you say “wrong”! DANI: They’re wrong! We’re going to have the deep Harry Potter sorting conversation because we spend too much time thinking about house placements in this house. It works best since John McEnroe jokes about it in this episode that they are all hufflepuffs in reference to this series’ golden trio. So I’ve mentioned earlier, Devi’s obviously a Slytherin. A lot of people like to put her in Gryffindor, and I get it, I think she’s an Aries so she definitely has those same properties that would make her a Gryffindor, and like you said: she WANTS to be a Gryffindor. The thing is, I think anybody that is a big fan of Harry Potter and cares about Hogwarts Houses [knows that] shit can change and you can change and reflect a different house especially as you get older. CLARA: This is the whole bullshit of the sorting hat system, they get assigned when they’re 11 and they’re stuck with it forever, so fuck that, fuck that essentialist TERF and we’re going to re-do this! DANI: that’s what I always liked about The Magicians, it does turn that trope on its head and it’s like: you know what, you don’t actually get your discipline until a couple years in. CLARA: People evolve! DANI: People evolve. And some people don’t find theirs until like 10 years later CLARA: Until they’re 30. Which is a REAL thing! Anyway, sorry. Should I let you continue on with your… I only let you get through one! DANI: Yeah, I do feel like she’s a Slytherin. Gryffindor would probably be her Secondary House and something she probably more reflects as she gets older. Kinda grows into herself. Whereas for me I was like a Slytherin a lot when I was growing up. And then became way more of a Ravenclaw as I got older. Do you have any disagreements with Devi there? CLARA: No. Devi is a Slytherin. 100%. DANI: Ben I put as a Ravenclaw. Which I think people could argue that he is also a Slytherin! CLARA: OH! No no no. I am going to argue that he is a Gryffindor! DANI: OH! CLARA: And my argument for this is based on him going to Fabiola and Eleanor to help Devi, right? DANI: I would say that’s more of a Hufflepuff trait than a Gryffindor trait. CLARA: I mean, I feel like… He cares about friendship and he cares about sensitivity. It reminds me of Harry going between Ron and Hermione in… which one is that? The one with the Ball, is that 5? DANI: are you talking about the fourth one, Goblet of Fire, when they got into a fight? CLARA: Yeah, fourth, yeah! Yeah they’re in a fight and he goes back and forth between them! I feel like… DANI: And he’s like “I’m not an owl!” CLARA: Yeah exactly! I feel like that’s Ben in that moment. Also I feel like he’s such a softy at heart. DANI: I think he’s a Hufflepuff as a secondary, but I definitely think he’s a Ravenclaw as I do think he puts knowledge and wit above everything else. CLARA: But do you think he does that for the sake of knowledge, or do you think he does that for the sake of ambition? Because that’s a Slytherin argument, right? DANI: That is a Slytherin argument! I do think he likes the pursuit of knowledge. I do think that. CLARA: Well I suppose we’ll see in Season 2! DANI: And Ravenclaws can be pretty fucking prideful about their work as well. CLARA: Yeah but it’s not a status thing, right? Like you look at Luna or you look at… I can’t remember which Patil sister is Ravenclaw and which one is Gryffindor… DANI: I want to say it’s Parvati, but I could be wrong. CLARA: I feel like the Ravenclaws that we see, there is always an element of Knowledge for Knowledge’s sake. We’ll see! I see your next one is Eleanor who you have as Hufflepuff and you have no arguments from me here! I also feel like we talked about it a lot already! DANI: Eleanor is 100, thousand, bajillion percent a Hufflepuff. You couldn’t argue anything else for her. CLARA: No. DANI: Fabiola, I think, is a Ravenclaw. CLARA: Yeah! DANI: Because I definitely don’t think she feels an ugly sense of pride over her intelligence, it’s just her. CLARA: And this is the counter-argument to Ben as a Ravenclaw, right? Fabiola is so clearly Ravenclaw, and she loves her robots because she loves her robots. DANI: You could definitely argue it, but I think Ben is still a Ravenclaw. But I guess we’ll have to see more before we stamp our foot down on him. I did put both Paxton and Trent as Gryffindors. I feel like no matter what they would be in the same house. CLARA: Well, Gryffindor is the house of people who smoke weed and do Party drugs. So Trent belongs there. DANI: And so’s Hufflepuff! They are right next to the kitchens! CLARA: That’s the thing! Hufflepuff is where you go to get your munchies taken care of! But no, neither of them is a Hufflepuff. DANI: Definitely not a Hufflepuff… GRYFFINDOR! I can’t try to argue anything else for them. CLARA: Trent is Fred Weasley. I mean, come on. Fred or George. DANI: We already kinda brought this up earlier. Jonah I feel is between a Slytherin and a Hufflepuff. Which surprisingly, most people don’t get that they’re actually really similar houses. They’re both VERY loyal, they’re just loyal in different ways. CLARA: Yeah, Slytherin is loyal to a small circle, whereas Hufflepuff is loyal to humanity as a concept. DANI: Exactly. CLARA: I’d buy that. Definitely a Slytherin primary. DANI: For sure. For Eve, I think she would either be a Ravenclaw or a Hufflepuff. CLARA: You know I don’t think we know her well enough at this point. I would have the same instincts, but I feel like I only know three things about her. DANI: It’s true. I do feel like, from what I do know about her, that’s what I would sort her in. On first glance. Shira I put as a Gryffindor— CLARA: You’re a THOUSAND percent wrong about this! DANI: Here’s the thing about Gryffindors… I’m not a big fan. Like I love Harry and Ron and Hermione, but I always hate that they’re the house everyone wants to be a part of. CLARA: That’s fine, but she is OBVIOUSLY a Slytherin. The only reason she dates Ben is for her Money! She’s so status conscious, so image-conscious. The whole breaking her date with him because she wants to get her eyebrows threaded for Instagram. DANI: She’s not cunning enough CLARA: I mean she is in a way, she’s cunning enough to know that Ben will be okay with that, he will still suck up to her because he also to an extent wants a certain amount of status. DANI: See, I see her as more of a Lavender Brown kind of Gryffindor. CLARA: I hear what you’re saying, but Lavender Brown wouldn’t go after someone for status. She genuinely has an interest in Ron. She does. It’s a weird interest! DANI: It isn’t until the Weasley is our King moment that she gives a shit about him. CLARA: I hear what you’re saying, but I think Shira is a Slytherin, I think you’re wrong on this one. DANI: Eric I put as a Hufflepuff. We don’t know him very well, but I definitely was like: He’s a Hufflepuff. He would want to be next to the kitchens. CLARA: Yes. DANI: Nalini I put as a Slytherin. Just like her daughter. CLARA: Huh. I think Nalini might be a Hufflepuff. I think for her it’s more about… she’s really focussed on hard work and she has a very clear idea in her mind of what is the right thing. She’s very family-oriented in a particular way. Like: of course we’re a family, we have dinner together every night. Those seem to me like Hufflepuff traits. Having a pretty rigid definition of what is right and the diligence and determination. DANI: Well Slytherin is also very family-oriented, just in a different way. I don’t think she’s close enough to Devi personally to actually be a Hufflepuff. There’s a lot of distance there which would remind me of pureblood family crowd. CLARA: But I don’t think it comes from the same place, I think it comes from the fact that Devi has walls and they’ve both been through this trauma together, right? DANI: I do feel like the other argument would obviously be Ravenclaw. She’s very studious and education is the most important thing. So I could definitely see that. She’s a little bit more of a tough person to choose. For Kamala I put Hufflepuff though. CLARA: I can see that but I think she’s a Ravenclaw. Her excitement about her PhD program? And the way she approaches it feels to me… I think she’s probably a Hufflepuff-Secondary but a Ravenclaw-Primary. DANI: And the last one I have is Mohan who I put as Gryffindor. I feel like he is the very embodiment of all the positive traits about a Gryffindor. CLARA: He reminds me of Harry Potter in that dumb epilogue at the end. The way he gives advice to Devi in the weird dream-states is very much Harry Potter giving advice to his son. DANI: Yeah and I feel like he’s more of a Remus kind of Gryffindor rather than Harry’s Father. Harry’s Father is a very controversial character. He is kind of a lot of the negative embodiments of Gryffindor. CLARA: Yeah. Though also he died at 19, so… DANI: He’s a little older than that, but yeah, he wasn’t that old. CLARA: They were pretty young. They were really young when they had Harry. I did the maths at some stage. DANI: I thought they were like 28 when they died. CLARA: MM-MM. I don’t think so. I’m sure someone will tell us. Alright let’s wrap up and we can look at that afterwards! DANI: Yes, and with that I think we’ve come to the end of the show. We thank Ramona and Lee so much for joining us earlier, it was great to have them. CLARA: Oh my god, the best! DANI: Listeners: Thank you for joining us. If you liked this episode you can subscribe to us online wherever you get your podcasts. And you can follow us on Twitter or Instagram: @nhie_podcast. Bye! CLARA: Bye! ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme. CLARA: Mind slut! RAMONA: Nobody was as weird as you!