NHIE – 1x03 TRANSCRIPT DANI: Welcome back to “Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast”. I’m Dani, CLARA: and I’m Clara, DANI: and today we will be discussing the third episode titled “Never Have I Ever… Gotten Drunk with the Popular Kids” CLARA: That’s not all, we have a special guest with us today -- Dylan Thai, who plays Eddie Tan, one of the members of Paxton’s hot pocket! Welcome, Dylan, thank you so much for being here! DYLAN: You’re welcome, thanks for having me! DANI: As some of you know, Ben Norris, aka Trent Harrison, was originally going to be here as well, but we had a little scheduling snafu. Don’t worry, though, he’ll join us later in the season. Without further ado, let’s get into the episode... CLARA: Well before we get too far, I think we should let Trent and Paxton tell us a little about this episode. [Paxton thanks Devi for doing so much of the work on their group assignment, and shares the slogan he created for their group assignment. Trent mocks Paxton’s slogan which is long and wordy and not very good. Paxton defends the slogan, and Trent makes a dig about Paxton repeating school twice already]. DANI: Group assignments, amirite? CLARA: You’re definitely right. I’m definitely gonna have to agree with Trent on this one. Also, I know it’s taken and also it’s super morbid in context, but “live mas” actually kinda works as a slogan for Bunker. DANI: I love how Trent is very smart in this moment but also quotes Taco Bell’s slogan. He’s gotta be a stoner, right? So, Clara, what did you think of this episode? CLARA: Well, so first, Trent is absolutely a stoner. At least at heart. But I loved the episode! The assignment Mr. Shapiro gives them is so over-the-top ridiculous, and also just confirms further my “he’s the Amy Poehler cool Mom from Mean girls” vibe. Also, I work in tech, and it’s 100% how tech bros in Silicon Valley approach things. Like, here’s a complex social problem, let me “solve” it with an app. You can’t actually do that, but go off, I guess? This episode has a lot of deep moments, too though which I really appreciated, like I love when Eve asks Fabiola to the fundraiser and Fabiola brushes her off because she’s not ready to admit to herself that she likes girls. And It also really underscores Devi’s low standards for Paxton and her issues with self-esteem. I continue to love her interactions with Dr. Ryan (I can’t believe she asked her to buy her a thong! But I also can—it’s very in-character), and of course we wouldn’t have Dylan here if we didn’t adore the Hot Pocket, which is out in force this episode. So all in all, a pretty great 22 minutes of TV. What about you, Dani? DANI: Well I think that Devi should have asked Trent’s mom to buy her a thong, I feel like that would have gone over a little… But I mean like of course I liked it… I’ve seen the show way too many times now. I literally made Clara watch it. CLARA: That’s true! DANI: I figured she would eventually, but I wouldn’t shut up about it, CLARA: You wouldn’t, you texted me like every day three times a day to be like “watch this show!” DANI: Yeah! And here we are. Episode 3 though is where the show really starts to get where it’s going. The first two episodes are basically set up, like most shows are. In this episode we really start to get to know a lot more characters other than just Devi, Paxton and Ben Gross. It was such a fun episode and it had a lot of energy to it but it did also have a lot of really deep moments like you said. I would probably say it’s probably one of my favourite episodes. CLARA: Oh! I think your all-time favourite episode comes later though right? Like that’s the Ben episode? DANI: Yeah that’s the best one. So Dylan, what about you? What are your overall thoughts about the episode? DYLAN: This episode. This is the one with the Coyote right? CLARA: Yeah Coyote girl. DYLAN: I’ve only seen this twice. I’m bad. I’ve only watched this twice. I liked it, I liked it a lot. It’s a lot of developing of Trent’s character, which is great to see. ‘cause he’s a very funny guy in person too. Ben is a great guy. And to see that play off on screen is awesome. The discovery moment of Fabiola going to—this is the nail salon scene right? CLARA + DANI: Yeah DYLAN: Yeah with the Chick in the chinos (? 4.46 timestamp). So it’s the confrontation of the struggles of every LGBTQ individual in the society. It’s that confrontation of the parents, and unsure what to say and not be heartbroken. I liked that a lot. I don’t know the script coming to the show, so just to watch that, it was a good touch base for the developing of Fabiola’s character. And also dealing with Devi stuff with her Dad, deeper into those… the Tomato garden? And she’s meeting the Coyote and thinking that her Dad is coming back to her through this animal. It’s fun—and how it starts with TiKToK too. This is the TiKToK one right? CLARA: Yes! Oh god it’s such a good scene. DYLAN: Yeah so it’s great. It’s a rollercoaster ride in this episode. DANI: It really is, it’s very quick moving. CLARA: Yeah I love everything you said, the Chicken mail (? Timestamp: 5.40) scene is… It’s just so good and we’ll talk about it later. But I think we’re gonna start off with a short game of Never Have I Ever because the show’s title basically demands it. So typically when you’re playing Never Have I Ever you hold up 5 fingers and the first person to put down all their fingers loses. And there’s alcohol involved. There’s no losers here, I’m drinking tea not alcohol, so instead we’re going to answer every question with “I have” or “I’ve never” and people listening can tally it up if they feel so inclined. So should we get started? DANI: Never Have I Ever...Shoplifted. DYLAN: Ooooh I have. CLARA: I have! DANI: I have! And I got arrested for it once. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. CLARA: Never Have I Ever… Dined and Dashed. DYLAN: Never. Wanted to, but never. DANI: I have never. CLARA: Me neither. DANI: Never Have I Ever been caught cheating on a test. DYLAN: I have CLARA: I have DANI: I’ve never been caught… CLARA: Do you have a story Dylan? DYLAN: It was in college. I thought I was sneaky, but he caught me. He didn’t say anything, he didn’t take my test away he let me continue. But yeah he ended up failing me. CLARA: My story is kinda pathetic. It was in high school and it was an open-note quiz and my friend gave me her notes and he recognised her handwriting. DANI: Is that really cheating though? CLARA: It is I guess! I definitely failed the quiz DYLAN: Is it the open notes where it has to be what you’ve written the night before, or… CLARA: I don’t remember, it was like 20 years ago at this point. But they definitely had to be something that YOU had written, I’m pretty sure that was the thing I had been called out on. Um alright next one. Never Have I Ever been caught sneaking into a movie. DANI: I have, and it was when Superbad came out. It was right before I was 17. So if it was a couple months later I would have been fine. CLARA: Dylan what about you? DYLAN: Never, never. I snuck into one. But never got caught. CLARA: Yeah I have definitely snuck into movies before, I’ve never been caught. The last one I remember sneaking into was Star Trek Nemesis, which I decided I was going to sneak into—I actually paid for a different movie. Because I was mad that Will Wheaton had been cut out of it. ‘Cause he blogged about how he was sad. And I was like “alright I’m not paying for the movie”, but I love Star Trek so that was a dumb thing. DYLAN: Pretty sure everyone has movie-hopped, or sneak into a different movie if they didn’t like the first one that they paid for. CLARA: Yeah DANI: Yeah. Never Have I Ever had a paranormal experience. DYLAN: Never… CLARA: I don’t super believe in a lot of the paranormal stuff, but I have definitely had experiences which are very intuitive, where I can’t reconstruct the logic of my intuition. When I was really young I used to always know when people would get together romantically in school. And in my head what happened was that I would hear their voices together, but I think it was just that I was reading the signs and so I supplied their voices in my head. Anyway… DYLAN: You’re Psychic DANI: I have definitely had paranormal experiences but it’s a story for another day. CLARA: Oh! Alright well we’re gonna have to hear that at some point. Never Have I Ever been so hungover that I was out of commission for an entire day. Dylan? DYLAN: Never. But my friends have! DANI: I have a few times, but I think at one point there was a moment where I lightweight had alcohol poisoning so… CLARA: Oh shit! DANI: That was fun! CLARA: Never for me! I mean you know me; I mean I barely drank. I get drunk off of half a beer. DANI: Never Have I Ever stayed up til the crack of dawn talking to someone I like. DYLAN: I have. CLARA: It’s a rite-of-passage in high-school. I once actually… I do weirdly have a story about this, because I stayed up and I hid in my closet (this is a theme apparently) because I didn’t want my parents to overhear, and I was like 14. And I fell asleep in my closet. And I woke up because my mom was freaking out because she didn’t know where I was, and she thought I had been kidnapped or run away or something. But I was just in the closet. DYLAN: Awww, but in your closet! CLARA: Yeah! Still here! 20 years later. DANI: I definitely have but that’s funny. Whenever I would try to hide being awake from my parents I would stuff a towel under the doorframe so that the light wouldn’t shine through. I only got caught like once. DYLAN: Wait you don’t do it in the dark? You didn’t talk in the dark? You kept the light on? DANI: Usually my Mom would see the computer light, if I was up on like… CLARA: On AIM DANI: On AIM! DYLAN: AIM! But wait, what is our audience, do they even know what AIM is? CLARA: Half of them probably don’t, but we do and we are the important ones. DANI: AOL Instant messenger. CLARA: It was like- DYLAN: That sounds- CLARA: -it was like Slack, but way back in the day. DANI: Kind of DYLAN: Slack?! CLARA: I don’t know what the equivalent is… Instagram DM? DANI: It’s just an IM. It’s close… DYLAN: It’s like Facebook messenger DANI: Yeah it’s probably closer to Facebook Messenger CLARA: It’s like Messenger! But way back when. Never Have I Ever lied about a family member dying to get out of something. DYLAN: I have CLARA: DYLAN! DYLAN: Wait- CLARA: this we need the story for. DYLAN: No. Have I? No I haven’t. That was my friend. CLARA: I feel like what I’m getting out of that is that you haven’t, but you WOULD. DYLAN: I would, yes. So it’s for my friend. This was actually in college. I don’t know how we got away with it, but he wasn’t there, and I was like “yeah, his grandma died, so he’s not here, so he needs to retake the test”. And the Prof was like “Okay cool-. CLARA: Oh! DYLAN: “-Just bring a flyer or something” and I was like “Okay cool!” CLARA: So you lied about your friend’s family member dying, now I understand how those got mixed up. Dani what about you? DANI: I haven’t, I mean I have made up so many little white lies to get out of something. But a family member dying is actually not one of them. CLARA: Yeah, I am the same way. I just feel like there’s some karma there that I would not want to get into. DYLAN: True, true. DANI: Never Have I Ever been slapped across the face. DYLAN: I have. CLARA: Did you deserve it? DYLAN: NO. She just slapped me for no reason and broke my glasses. DANI: That’s pretty mean. CLARA: I have been slapped across the face in sixth grade. I honestly don’t remember what this fight was about but it’s such a weird story. This girl slapped me and I slapped her back, and it was in PE, and the PE teacher called us into her office and made us apologise to each other and then gave us candy! So my lesson from that was that if you slap people you get candy. DANI: I have—I mean I have a couple times, but I’ve also slapped other people across the face. CLARA: Yeah I’m not surprised! DANI: the funniest time that it ever happened to me, it was someone’s birthday, and we were out drinking and bar-hopping. And we were waiting to get into this place in Davis where you can dance because Davis only has two places where you can hang out and drink. So I was waiting in and I stepped out of line to go help my friend because she was crying of course because you know: drinking. And then I got back in line and this girl just got all up in my face and she was like “you’re cutting” and I was like “No I’m not” and my friend who was in line was like “no she’s not” and then all of a sudden this bitch just starts throwing punches! So I had to slap her! DYAN: She deserved that! DANI: But it almost got pretty bad though, my friends had to pull me away, they were like: “Noooo!” CLARA: I feel like it’s important Dylan that you know this when you hear Dani tell the story: she’s like five foot! DANI: Five foot nothing! CLARA: Thiiis big! DANI: I was wearing a leather jacket and this girl literally verbatim says: “you think you’re so hard wearing a leather jacket” DANI: it was pretty funny! CLARA: Alright Never Have I Ever had a crush on a friend’s family member. DYLAN: Never DANI: I have. I mean I have not, but I did have a massive crush on one of my cousin’s best friends. CLARA: I have not had a crush on a friend’s family member that I remember anyway. But story for another day—I have a cousin who I’m not related to by blood whom my mom tried to set me up with in High school! So that’s a story! It didn’t happen! DANI: Never Have I Ever cried during a concert. DYLAN: Never CLARA: I don’t think I have either! I’m pretty emotional about music but I don’t think I’ve ever cried during a concert. DYLAN: I’ve cried during movies but… CLARA: Yes! All the time! DANI: All the time. CLARA: I cry in credit sequences DANI: That’s how I was when the last Harry Potter movie came out in theatres, I was crying before the movie even started. But yes I have cried during a concert. I actually have quite a bit. But I think the most emotional I’ve ever been was when I saw All Time Low with my best friend in Seattle. They have a song called “Missing You” and it’s all about talking someone down from committing suicide, so we were both just crying during it. But also Alcohol was involved during that moment too. I don’t drink that much anymore! CLARA: Alright. I think this is the last one. Never Have I Ever sent a text and immediately regretted it. DYLAN: I have. CLARA: I honestly feel like: who hasn’t? If you haven’t sent a text and then immediately regretted it, who even are you? Though I do think I am old, it used to happen to me even more with emails. I used to happen to me— I’d stay up too late and then all of my judgement would disappear and I’d email somebody something super emotional at 2am and then be like “oh god, that was a terrible mistake”. And then I’d hate myself for it for a year. DYLAN: But if you don’t have WhatsApp— WhatsApp you can delete it automatically. If you regret it for a second. CLARA: Wait can you actually delete it from their end too? DYLAN: Yes! So, you go “delete” and it says, “delete for me” or “Delete for everyone” and it’s going to be GONE. CLARA: Okay now I care about WhatsApp again. DANI: I haven’t used it in a while. CLARA: I haven’t used it since I lived in Turkey. DANI: You can also unsend Instagram DMs. CLARA: But that doesn’t necessarily—if the push notification goes through, they still get the push notification. DYLAN: Yup. CLARA: So… DANI: They do, but I’ve noticed that if they erase it I’ve had it actually take away the notification from me, it will just say unsend. It won’t even tell me who did it. CLARA: I don’t trust it. But sure. DYLAN: I don’t trust that! CLARA: But yes I have sent a text and then immediately regret it. I do that all the time. But for me I feel like it’s mostly an anxiety thing, and I’ll just freak out about it. CLARA: Is this why it takes you forever to answer texts now? DANI: Yes. I’m always afraid I’m going to send it to the wrong person too. That’s something when I was younger I would check a million times. Especially when we had flip phones. “Did I text the right person back?!” DYLAN: You can do that now too nowadays. If you see an “m”, especially on iPhones you think you’re replying to the person that you’re talking to— DANI: Oh yeah If you use touch-force! DYLAN: Yeah and then you text the wrong person. So like I was texting my friend and I was mad at him, and then I texted it to my friend’s Mom and I was like “oh crap”. And she was like “who are you talking to?” and I was like “um wrong person. Disregard it. Delete it. Sorry”. CLARA: I think this is why some people put emoji in their contacts to help them really quickly figure out who is who DANI: But if you use touch-force on an iPhone… press it down you can press reply and then start replying that way and that’s usually the way you end up texting the wrong person. CLARA: This has been tech-support with Never Have I Ever hosted a Podcast. But yeah we probably should get into the interview portion of the evening. I hope you brought your ballgown. We love audition stories. So Dylan what was your audition like, and how was Eddie described in the info you got about him when you went to audition? DYLAN: Wow that’s a good one. There was no audition! DANI: Really? DYLAN: Zero! CLARA: You’re just that good! DYLAN: No this is what happened. So how I got on the show was through a connection who works for Never Have I ever who works closely with Mindy and he sent my photo in to the AD. And the AD said, “sure we’re glad to have him, we need more diversity, we need more Asians.” And I just started the same day as everyone started. And on the second or third day when we were filming at the school, they were like “oh come here, you’re part of the hot pocket kids” I was like “okay”, so I was sitting with Ben, who plays Trent, and Dana who plays Marcus. And then the Director at the time for this episode was Tristram, and they were like “who’s Eddie?” And I was like “Who?!” He was looking directly at me and I was like “Uh, what?” and I was like “Who’s Eddie?” and the other AD was like “it’s you” and I was like “oh. Okay cool!” And they were like “You’re Eddie Tan” And I was like “COOL” So from that day forth, that was like 30 minutes prior to shooting that episode. And yeah I became Eddie Tan. CLARA: So clearly you wouldn’t have a background for him ahead of time but have you developed one for him now? DYLAN: I mean, from what we know and what I’ve developed I’m part of the swim team. Varsity. I’m a Junior. I might be a Junior? Paxton got held behind, and he’s in varsity, so probably the same age as Paxton. And that’s all I know. DANI: I think Paxton only got held behind in one class, and he’s still technically considered a Junior. DYLAN: yeah so I’m a Junior, that’s all I know. That’s my story, that’s how I became Eddie Tan. From that day forth! DANI: Do you have something that you’ve made up for him in your own mind? DYLAN: No! I just went with the flow a bit and improv. I just know that he was shady to Devi all the time. If you just see all the footage I’m always shady to her. Except that one scene that was nice, I was just like “great”. But yeah, there’s not much. Eddie Liu who plays Steve, I was like “we could be brothers!” because his real name is Eddie in real life, So I was like “we could be brothers” but then I found out he already had a last name so I was like “damn!”. But that was the thing I was hoping for, we could have been brothers. DANI: That would have been funny. DYLAN: Yeah. That’s not gonna happen. DANI: You never know in TV shows they retcon stuff all the time. DYLAN: That’s true, we could be cousins! There you go. DANI: Cousins! DYLAN: That’s legit. DANI: So what was high school like for you? Was it anything like what we see in the show? DYLAN: Oh hell no! I was an introvert. I was into—I’m like Eleanor. No not like Eleanor. I was more of the shy kid. I’m a mix of Fabiola, Eleanor, and I guess somewhat Devi. I wanted to do what I like, so Theatre. In Junior I always wanted to dance so in Junior year I auditioned for plays. And my parents being Asian were like “NO! you need to make A’s. No extra-curricular activities”. So I was like “Fuck you!” I didn’t say that to them but I still went and auditioned and got in and I was very artistic. But then I was still shy and trying to discover myself. So in the case where Fabiola is discovering her sexuality, that was me too. I wasn’t sure where I flow, so in a way I was hesitant of saying much and just went with what people told me to do, and I was a yes-person. Parties? No. Got drunk? No. The only alcohol I had was Smirnoff with the family. That’s how much I had. I guess partying and everything else, being a savage, reckless, wasn’t ‘til college. But that was not my high school experience what Devi went through. CLARA: It’s funny because I feel like what Devi is doing the party thing now as a way of finding her identity, but I sort of feel the same way as you. I don’t think I could have relaxed at a party ever if I didn’t feel a certain amount comfortable with who I am and in my own skin and like I knew what I was about. DYLAN: I want to be able to sneak out to a party anyways. CLARA: Oh that I did plenty in High school! Plenty of sneaking out! I just did weird things like push a friend around in a shopping cart in a parking lot for an hour at 3 in the morning, whatever I was a weird kid. DANI: I didn’t have to sneak out, I basically spent every single day at someone else’s house. My Mom just let us do whatever we wanted. Which was good and bad! DYLAN: The most I did was skip school. And shove 6 people into a little Honda Civic, that was my Senior year. CLARA: Oh! Did you put people in the trunk too? DYLAN: No I had someone lay across laps. CLARA: Oh okay. DANI: I’ve done that. CLARA: You can drive safer maybe? But easier to get caught. DANI: I’ve been the person who had to do that. I’ve also sat in someone’s lap in the car. Too many people. So I heard that Mindy and Lang collaborated with the cast a lot to make the characters feel really true to life. Was that experience something you had or do you know how that went for a different actor? DYLAN: that’s what I heard. For me personally I pretty much I got the instruction from Mindy—she came up to me the day we did that shoot—that scene. The guy’s and she was like “bro it up” and I was like “okay! Cool! So… what is that?” She was like “just hang out”, that’s pretty much all we go, hang out and be bros. and then she was like “can you guys just bro it up more?” I was like “okay cool”. So I’m pretty sure for Maitreyi and Lee and Ramona and Darren and them, pretty much got the one-to-one direction. For me it was like technically background. But then I become future so I didn’t have that much direction with Lang and Mindy. Besides that “Bro it up”. From what I know they had their one-on-ones. CLARA: If the show gets renewed (which it really should), DYLAN: I hope so! But RONA! CLARA: what do you hope you’ll get to see for Eddie in Season 2 and beyond? DYLAN: His storyline, I want him to be developed. I really hope he gets developed and more of the hot pockets develop, like their struggles. We’re quiet, all of us are quiet—but of the four, I don’t talk. I’m just expressionist with my face! DANI: You were really good at giving some side-eye. CLARA: Shady to Devi, right? DYLAN: Yeah they were like: “Look her up and down more!” And I was like “I can’t! It’s so hard!” Yeah I hope Eddie gets developed and he gets a little story to him. The whole hot-pockets and how we came about. Because all of us—Trent, Marcus, Me, we’re all different characters. I feel like with Eddie he’s always with Paxton but he’s not talked about. It would be cool if the Hot Pockets and Paxton get an episode. And it would be cool if we had a dance number too! DANI: I would love! The last show that we did a podcast for had a musical number in every season, so we would definitely love to see a musical episode! CLARA: Oh you’re converted now! She used to tell me she didn’t like musicals! DANI: That’s not what I ever said! CLARA: I have the receipts! DANI: I said I don’t like musicals that are from stop to finish where there’s no fucking dialogue! That’s what I don’t like! DYLAN: I really hope there’s a musical, everyone’s talented. Maitreyi—we all went to Karaoke so I heard all of them sing. If you follow Lee or Ramona they can sing. I think Darren sings but I never heard him. Jaren sings. I know we all can dance. And then Marcus he dances and sings. So it would be really cool to have a musical number in an episode. And you’ve got Bollywood vibes, so… CLARA: Yeah I mean Devi has a big imagination, it’s a big part of this episode—she uses her imagination to process her grief with her Dad. And then in the last episode her weird Sex Scene dream sequence with Paxton and Supreme Court whatever. So I feel like there’s also a really natural way to get there. This could be Devi dealing with something by imagining this musical number. DYLAN: Or it could be Eleanor’s episode, because she’s a drama! CLARA: Oh yes! DYLAN: It’s like a Riverdale kind of way. Because Riverdale always does this when they talk about the Drama—the play. So there’s Eleanor’s episode or the Prom episode. We talked about Prom and homecoming in the episode, there were fires! And I was like “Are we going to have a dance scene? No?” So I really hope there’s some sort of dancing and singing. Like the Hot Pockets and the UNs with a dance-battle or something. DANI: I feel the same way. I would like to see some of the background characters have a story. Some of my favourite episodes of our previous podcast show, The Magicians, had some really lovely episodes which are basically saying “there’s no such thing as a side-character because everyone’s the hero of their own story.” And they were some of the best episodes of the entire series too, so I would really love to see something like that for the show and I feel like it could really fit really well with the high-school theme. There are so many people who are wallflowers, and they have a story too. It would be really good. CLARA: And I know Dani, you’re not a big Star Trek fan (though we’re working on it. We’re working on it), but there were a bunch of episodes in Star Trek—in especially TNG— that were like “Lower Deck’s episodes”. So basically you have all these people who are literally background characters. People who are who are milling around engineering while Jordy is fixing the Warp-Core or whatever! And people who were on the Bridge but who never talk. They would have all these episodes that were just them, but without all the main characters in the way! And I would love to see that with the Hot Pockets without Paxton, and maybe combined with Eleanor and Fabiola without Devi. Just to get a little bit more of that fleshed out. And Maybe Alex Gomez because I feel like he has a fun story. DYLAN: Yeah, it’s like GLEE and Riverdale too. The groupies and Cliques end up having a story to them. CLARA: Yeah. And that makes the whole show richer, because you have a real ecosystem and a world that you’re building, and not just a handful of important characters. So this next question is from @darrenqbarnet on instagram: What was your favorite scene to film? DYLAN: I guess this episode, the Coyotes. It was fun, it was late at night. I mean we didn’t interact with the Coyotes… It was really fun to play and imagine the Coyote biting Devi—it was really fun. I think that was my favourite one of all. But to top it off, the day that the Hot Pockets assembled was equal. I like both! CLARA: The way you said that—you know how there’s “Avengers, Assemble?” There’s like: “Hot Pockets! Assemble!” DYLAN: There was one scene that was really fun that you guys didn’t see. In episode 1, when Devi was able to walk. It was at a Grocery store and we were just messing around with the Caterpillars. And from afar you see Paxton jumping on something, but it’s actually a caterpillar. It was one of those coin-operated. it was just like “Goof around, bro it up, just be stupid” and I’m like “okay…” And it was actually at a grocery store, we didn’t cut off anything. And we were like “Okay so what do we do” and we were just beating it up and be stupid and like high schoolers. That was fun. CLARA: Caterpillar, like the truck? Or— DYLAN: It was a little baby, caterpillar thing… DANI: I’ve seen pictures, you know those coin-operated— CLARA: I just meant, not the thing that becomes a butterfly. DANI: It is, that’s what it is! DYALN: The caterpillar, yeah! Like the insect. CLARA: Oh wait I know what you mean, they’re like seesaws or whatever. DYLAN: That was fun. It was hot, but yeah. DANI: This one is from my friend Lyn: If you could play any other role in the show, regardless of gender or race, what would it be? DYLAN: Ooh. Eleanor. She’s just fun and Bubbly. Ramona does a great job of her. Ramona is like that in person too, she’s very fun, bubbly… very dramatic. so Eleanor would be fun. And she’s colourful too. Different tones… it was so sad to see her depressed… CLARA: Oh yeah, all in beige and khaki. DYLAN: When I first saw her I was like “What’s going on? What happened?!” DANI: She looks like a park-ranger in one of those scenes. DYLAN: Yeah. Eleanor. DANI: Good answer! CLARA: Who do you identify with most in the show? Is it also Eleanor? DYLAN: Okay, let’s rephrase. As a high-school student, or right now? CLARA: Right now! DYLAN: Right now, aw shit. That’s a good one. I can’t pinpoint one because every character has a certain journey to them that we all have gone through or are going through. Like Devi is the one who is discovering self-love. Figuring out how to deal with Loss. And then Fabiola is dealing with self-identity. Same with Eleanor. I think everyone is dealing with Self-Identity and love in this show because everyone’s missing something—missing a parent or missing that love from a figure that they want. Paxton is very hardcore but you don’t really know much about him besides his sister. Which is very heartfelt, very cute. But I really don’t know. Who else is there? Camilla? Steve? CLARA: Nalini. DYLAN: Yeah, Naomi… CLARA: Mohan! DYLAN: It has to be the main cast, or anyone? CLARA: Anyone! DYLAN: I’m going to go by default: Steve! DYLAN: Because he just wants love, so there! There you go! DANI: So here are some fun short questions that we’ll all answer. What song would you consider your high school anthem? Mine was “Weightless” by All Time Low which I still really relate to or whenever we played rock band which was really really cool when I was in High School, everyone would make me play and sing “Dani California” by The Red Hot Chili Peppers because you know… I’m Dani from California. What about you Clara? CLARA: Okay so. In high school… I feel like I’ve always had eclectic music tastes, but in High School I was very centred on industrial music, folk music, and indie music, which is a bizarre combination. But it’s what you get when you have a goth… a pink goth. I’m not sure I had an anthem because I’m not sure how you would with that soundtrack, either in German or it would be just very sad and Guitar-y...but one of my strongest memories from high school which was music-related was sitting at my friend Kelly’s house and listening to the album “This is a Long Drive for Someone with Nothing to Think About” by Modest Mouse while she played Ecco the Dolphin. I’ve always had a really strong memory of just that. Just the serene-ness of Ecco the Dolphin… and I guess there’s a certain serene-ness if you don’t listen to the lyrics of that Modest Mouse album. But I was obsessed with the song, “Talking Shit About a Pretty Sunset,” and I still go back to it when I’m in a real mood or I want to feel my feelings, so maybe that’s my anthem? It’s a little depressing. What about you Dylan? DYLAN: I’m trying to one-up. Oh my god! CLARA: What was your favourite band in High School? DYLAN: I didn’t have.. I forgot the name… Paramore? DANI: Paramore? DYLAN: Yeah, what’s that song? There’s one song that I really like. DANI: Misery business? DYLAN: Is it? DANI: Crush? I think those were the most popular songs. DYLAN: Old badass songs? How did Misery Business go. I don’t even remember. DANI: That was the one where she is pining after some guy that she had been dating and then she calls this girl a whore. That’s part of the lyrics. DYLAN: Oh. Nope. Nope um… that’s not it then. DANI: It doesn’t have to be a band, it can be a pop-artist or rapper. DYLAN: High school. I’m trying to think. What were the hit songs in 20… CLARA: When did you graduate high-school? DYLAN: 2010! CLARA: Oh god I’m so old! DYLAN: You guys do not guess my age now! DANI: We don’t have to put that part in there! CLARA: Well it’s okay, we can say that you liked Paramore in high school and then come back to it if you think of it or something. DYLAN: I mean who else… who sand firefly? DANI: Owl City? DYLAN: Yeah. I will say Firefly. DANI: There’s that song he put out with Carly Rae-Jepsen, Good Time, everyone really liked that one. I used to listen to Owl City back in the MySpace days. I had it on my profile. Because I thought he was really cool since he recorded all his music in his garage. CLARA: Did you have MySpace Dylan? DYLAN: Yup! Who didn’t?! CLARA: Was Tom in your top 8? DYLAN: No! Who’s Tom? Tom Cruise? DANI: I deleted Tom as a friend. There’s some fucking crazy back story to Tom, which is way too long to get into but… CLARA: You’re gonna text me about that after! Okay, so we all agree that JKR is a big TERF, but since Dani and I still grew up on the Harry Potter novels, we have to ask: What’s your Hogwarts house, and what would you say Eddie’s is? DYLAN: OOOOH! Hufflepuff. CLARA: Hufflepuff is YOU or EDDIE or BOTH? DYLAN: I think both, I would say both. I don’t know what do you guys think? DANI: I would say Eddie at first glance—because he’s always mean-mugging and side-eyeing is probably Slytherin in my mind. DYLAN: True, true… but then he can be a sweetheart! CLARA: Slytherin and Hufflepuff have a lot of things in common. They both do loyalty; they just do it differently. So it could very easily be mistaking Hufflepuff loyalty for Slytherin. DANI: But also at the same time I feel like everyone in Paxton’s Hot Pocket is a Gryffindor because they have that BRO mentality. DYLAN: True, true… Okay I’ll change it: Gryffindor! CLARA: Okay, wait yeah Trent is definitely a Gryffindor because he’s like a Weasley brother. DYLAN: Yeah DANI: Yes I think that they are mostly Gryffindors in the Hot Pocket DYLAN: Yeah I was going to say Gryffindor as my second option. Change it to Gryffindor for Eddie. CLARA: Dylan’s a Hufflepuff and Eddie’s a Gryffindor. DYLAN: Yeah. I don’t know the answer. Pretty sure he is. DANI: So Clara and I are both Ravenclaw primaries with a Slytherin secondary, although I basically had a midlife crisis when Pottermore came out because I always self-identified as a Slytherin and I kept taking the test and I kept getting Ravenclaw, and I finally admitted defeat, I was like “Okay, makes sense, but…” DYLAN: Wait what kind is that—BuzzFeed, or? CLARA: No the Pottermore. DANI: The sorting hat basically asks you some really random questions. CLARA: It does. DANI: But there is a… not BuzzFeed but another quiz site compiled every single question that you could get asked into one thread, and it will tell you which percentage you are of each house. That was pretty cool. CLARA: When LiveJournal was still a thing, I was in a LiveJournal fan community for Harry Potter, and they do the sorting—like you do the quiz and everyone votes on you. And they split me 50/50 (or almost 50/50) people who voted Ravenclaw vs Hufflepuff, but then when I did the quiz for my secondary house, it was the highest unanimity that the community has ever seen, and they all said I was Slytherin. So, that’s my secondary. So I think that fits too. Pottermore—I think I was a three-way hat-stall, as I think Dani knows, because I talked about it incessantly on our last podcast. But it was everything but Gryffindor, and I think that’s probably true. I think I become more Hufflepuff-y and a little less Slytherin as I’ve gotten older. DYLAN: Hufflepuff-y! CLARA: I call my dog—my dog barks all the time and we call him a “grumplepuff” sometimes. DYLAN and DANI: Aww! DYLAN: Speaking of dogs—the coyote! You guys haven’t even mentioned the coyote! DANI: Oh, we’ll get there! CLARA: I know, we haven’t even gotten into the episode! I think there’s just one more question! DYLAN: Jumping the gun! DANI: While we’re on the subject of personality stuff, what are your astrological signs? I know my birth chart and I’m a Capricorn sun, Sagittarius moon and Aquarius rising which is a lot of fun for my personal life. What about you Dylan? You don’t know your birth chart, but we could probably figure that out. DYLAN: I’m pulling up my birth chart! CLARA: Oh nice! DYLAN: I have this done. I’m Aquarius. CLARA: Is that Birth Star you’re pulling up? DYLAN: Astro.com? My friend did it. DANI: Oh that’s a good one. DYLAN: Okay so it says I’m Aquarius sun, Pisces moon, Aquarius mercury, Capricorn Venus… how far do I need to go? CLARA: The first three was fine! So say it again one more time? DYLAN: Aquarius sun, Pisces moon, and mercury Aquarius. DANI: What about your rising? Is that on there? CLARA: It would say “ascendant” sometimes DANI: Yeah, sometimes it would say Ascendant”. DYLAN: Oh. Cancer. CLARA: Oh okay, so you got a lot of feels in there. DYLAN: Emotional! CLARA: Dani and I are both earth signs, she’s the Cap-Sun, and we both have Aquarius rising, Which I think those two things together account for the fact that we can get along. I’m Virgo Sun and Pisces Moon like you. And I don’t remember what you said Ben Gross is Dani, but I remember thinking that you basically like smushed our charts together and came up with him which is so fitting! DANI: I said that Ben Gross’ three signs would be a Virgo Sun, and that came about mostly because his birthday falls at the very beginning of the school year, which would be September, which would most likely make him a Virgo or a Libra, but a Libra would make no sense. CLARA: And Libra’s too late, probably. DANI: At first I thought he was a Capricorn Sun, but he’s not nearly cynical enough to be a Capricorn Sun. CLARA: No. He’s a soft-boy like me DANI: So, I put Capricorn as his Rising because, you know, first thoughts. And then I put Aquarius as his Moon. CLARA: Yeah, okay so he’s got Virgo, Cap and Aquarius. And yeah, Smush! Anyway. Before we get into the deep dive Dylan, do you have anything coming up other than NHIE that you want to plug for our audience? DYLAN: Not much, I’m just. I mean we’re in quarantine so there’s not much happening. But My musical feature? Called “The girl who left home”. So it’s a musical feature film. Hopefully you guys know who this is: Paolo Montalban, from Cinderella with Brandy and Whitney? He’s in it, he plays the uncle. Emy Colligado from Malcolm in the Middle. She plays the mom. Along with Haven Everly who is our leading actress. It’s about a Filipino-American family, a girl who left home for Maryland, to LA to pursue her dreams as an actress. And her dad passed away and she goes back, and she has to deal with the family restaurant along with… I guess what we’re all going through in life? As artists, of: pursuing our dreams to be happy, or pursuing our parents dream, of following in their footsteps. So it’s already completed, we are just waiting for it to get on the big screen. CLARA: Nice! Well, good luck. We’ll be watching! DYLAN: Thank you! DANI: Alright so we’re going to get into the episode deep-dive. The first part of this episode is a TikTok video the girls are making. I’m not a big fan of TikTok personally because I’m still mourning Vine but I thought bringing what’s currently big with that age group is really important. Also the tiktok video was just really funny. Eleanor is like really serious about it, Fabiola is trying to be cute, and Devi is definitely trying to be sexy. I love when Nalini comes out and then you just see her and Devi go off screen, and then she comes back with an under shirt on under her dress. It’s honestly the little things that I love about this show so much. It’s what I loved about the Office and what I really like about Super Store. It’s those little background things that you have to be paying attention to see. I feel like so many people don’t take everything in anymore so they miss those little things. CLARA: I agree with you about those background moments. And one of the things that I really liked was at the end when Devi has her three minutes to hang out with them. They each have one extra item of clothing and it’s emblematic of them in some way—because Devi has the shirt which sort of represents the way that she is tied to her mother’s expectations. Fabiola is wearing a hoodie of course. Because she would not be caught dead in a sexy dress if it weren’t for something like this. And Eleanor is wearing this blouse that feels very Eleanor—sort of floral, it has a little bit of a Kimono vibe to the shape and it looks silken. Something about that scene struck me as really sweet, showing a lot about their personalities just with one additional item of clothing on top of these dresses. DANI: You went deep. CLARA: Well, you know me and fashion! We do go deep even though I dress like Fabiola. DANI: In this episode I realize that like friendship-wise I am a lot like Eleanor. Overly apologetic, advice-friend who vows to physically assault someone for my best friend. I think I consistently text my best friend Erin with something like “who’s house do I need to burn down?” I feel like we’re really starting to see what kind of friend each of them are. Fabiola is also really suspect of Paxton and it’s hilarious. The scene where Paxton turns around and smiles at Devi and then sees Fab like mean-mugging him is so great. Who would you say you’re the most like friendship-wise, Clara? CLARA: Oh man, so first I want to say you are a lot like Eleanor except for you’re also grumpy-cat incarnate, whereas Eleanor is super bubbly. So there’s just a little bit of a difference there. I know we’ve talked about this before and it’s not this group, but I really think I’m most like Ben friendship-wise, too. Like I’ll roast you to your face, but I’ll also be there for you 100% and more if you need anything. If I had to choose between Devi, Eleanor, and Fabiola, though… I guess I’m most like Fabiola? Thinking back to the pilot, I’m definitely more the build-you-robot-legs kinda friend than the stop-using-my-own-legs-in-protest kinda friend. What about you, Dylan? DYLAN: I would be Eleanor. CLARA: I think we’re seeing a theme! DYLAN: I would be Eleanor because I would stand up for my friends, like “Who do I need to hurt?” And I can be fun about it too but yeah I’m Eleanor. DANI: Next we have the group assignment. Mr. Shapiro gave them a really weird but interesting project. CLARA: I think you’re being too generous with “interesting!” DANI: I’m like 99% sure that he got his degree in Philosophy… not really a knock, but it definitely breeds the most pseudo-intellectuals I’ve met. Also group projects are just like the worst. I hate them. I was in a group communications class in college and it was brutal. It’s like you either get stuck doing all the work, or you get stuck with someone like Ben, who won’t let you do any of the work even if you wanted to. I saw someone comment on the fact they think Ben threw out an awful idea just so he could go off and do the project on his own like he wanted, and that’s probably very accurate. CLARA: So one thing that I thought was really funny, Group projects.. I’m also like “Oh yeah group projects are the worst” but then my entire work is group projects. The podcast is a group project! So clearly we’ve found ways to make group projects work in real life. I think it’s when you can pick your group not just from the 20 losers in the room with you, but from actual people you care about. DYLAN: When it’s not forced. CLARA and DANI: YEAH! CLARA: But Ben is also the absolute worst person to work with on a group project because he’s such a micromanager! And I am calling you out because you put a note in here that says “that’s why he’s a virgo like you, you wouldn’t be able to work together.” And that is rude! That is not true! DANI: I meant mostly that you BOTH wouldn’t be able to work together because you totally micro-manage! CLARA: Hey! I’m not a micro-manager, I just give lots of advice! And you can take it or not. But it’s probably true that me and Ben wouldn’t be able to work together because we are probably too similar in a lot of respects. But unlike him I do respect other people’s input and contributions—DANI DYLAN: The shade! CLARA: and he actually has a pretty great group which is one of the things that he doesn’t recognize. They are making some pretty good suggestions, pretty good points, and very much not anti-Semitic points. Thank you very much! Eleanor is spot-on! You do not give away the location of somebody who is trying to be in hiding and then send a car after them. That’s dumb! DANI: That’s pretty dumb. CLARA: But yeah, I don’t know, Dylan, what about you? Group projects, yay or nay? Good student, bad student? DYLAN: I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. I hate group projects. I hate them. I went to community college and then university and all of them had group projects and I was like “ughhh” like there’s always one person who would be a Devi or a Ben. There’s always the micro-manager and the slackers. I was the person who was in-between. I would delegate, and I would be like “you do this, you do this, let’s get it done” but someone is gonna slack off. Someone always slacks off. And I think that’s DANI: Or there’s always an excuse. DYLAN: Or they have put effort in and you know “okay let’s just help them get the A” and at the end of the day when the teacher goes “it’s a group grade”, one person’s gonna step up and do all of it. Hate them. Like what you said: when it’s not forced it’s magical, but when it is… Despise it! Despise it forever! DANI: Would you consider yourself a good student? Or a bad student? Or a weird student?! DYLAN: Define weird. DANI: I don’t know Clara, you put it! CLARA: Yeah I think of Eleanor as a weird student, because she’s probably a pretty good student, but she’s also a weirdo! DYLAN: Creative. Because she’s creative! CLARA: Yeah, yeah. Creative. DYLAN: Then I guess I would be the weird one. Like I’d be good and weird at the same time. DANI: I think I would be weird as well. I was like the class clown because I was bored all the time. So we haven’t been able to talk about Kamala in general a lot yet, and her relationship with Steve. What are some of your thoughts about them, Clara? CLARA: I think Steve is cute, and I want Kamala to feel like she has a choice in how her life pans out. At the same time, it struck me as a little manipulative and even a little paternalistic the way he dismissed how complicated her feelings were about possibly entering an arranged marriage. Like, he makes this big fuss about how she’s a strong woman, but obviously he has a vested interest in what she decides! So as much as I like him and also totally understand that in context, I didn’t feel like he respecting her decision to try to do things her family’s way. That being said I’m also probably influenced by what happens later in the season because he gets some stalker-y vibes later on. What about you guys? DYLAN: For me it’s life in general, it’s communication issues, understanding different cultures. Steve doesn’t understand, it’s like “Oh she’s FORCED to do this” but then I guess our society is different, you have an option, you have a choice, if you want to listen to your elders and be in an arranged marriage. And I think that’s where Steve is coming from, he’s like “You have an option. Choose Me or the person you’re being forced to marry.” She’s unsure of what to do. In the same sense he needs to respect that she has a tough decision between family or love, and that’s something that’s always hard to put someone through. Your dreams or family. Because you don’t want to disrespect your family at the end of the day. DANI: It’s true. I haven’t thought about it too much in terms of this episode, I’ve definitely thoughts about it later on. I think Steve is cute, they’re both a little bit dopey and weird. I think it’s hilarious that Kamala is obsessed with Riverdale which is just the worst show to take advice from. I have a love-hate relationship with Riverdale. DYLAN: Same! DANI: As long as you admit that it’s not good but you like it anyways. Then you’re fine. Not that the actors don’t put in the work, because they do. But I can understand where Steve is coming from. He’s also just very hurt—who wouldn’t be hurt by hearing that. And it is culturally different. A lot of people when they move here still struggle—if they want to do things the way that their family does traditionally, or if they want to become more traditionally American, and it’s a real back and forth. And she’s actually from India, and moved there just for school. So it’s definitely still really different for her than Devi who probably mostly considers herself an American. CLARA: Yeah and I mean we will get into this more when we meet the person that her family tries to set her up with. But one of the things that I think was really great—for me the thing that I see her expressing her reservations about with the arranged marriage, is she’s worried that she will end up in a relationship with someone who doesn’t respect her ambitions. And my impression from later on is that her family actually takes that into account in a very good way. So I think it just is more complicated than Steve’s perspective makes it seem. DANI: So I really want to talk about Fabiola, as well as Eve. I honestly love them both so much. Fabiola is going through a lot. Her mother seems really dismissive of her and it’s hard to open up when your Mom is like that. I felt really similar to Fabiola when it came to talking to my mother about certain things too, it’s like she would always end up saying something that made me decide against talking to her. And I was laughing out loud that her mom though that she liked Ben. I felt so bad for Eve, the way that Fabiola was treating her, but I definitely understood where Fab was coming from. I love that overall she comes out to herself via her robot Gears Brosnan. I have a feeling Eleanor probably sings a version of “Reindeers are better than people” from Frozen to Fabiola because of things like this. What are your thoughts, Clara? CLARA: Oh my god, that image... see that’s the musical number that we need. Yeah, I agree with you, Fabiola’s really going through it right now. The scene with her mom said a lot for me. Obviously we know how things shake out later in the season, but I think it really gets to why assuming straightness is so harmful. Her mom means well, and I think what she’s really worried that Fabiola won’t have fun, she’ll just be too focussed on work or whatever. But she keeps saying she wants her to have a boyfriend and she looks really relieved when Fabiola tells her about Alex Gomez…so it’s really easy to see why Fab thinks her mom isn’t going to accept her if she’s gay, because that word “boyfriend” she just keeps repeating it. On the Eve side—Even though I totally get where Fab is coming from and it feels really realistic to me the way that she handles that interaction with Eve— I still feel bad for Eve. What about you, Dylan? Did Fabiola’s coming out storyline in this episode in Season 1 resonate with you? DYLAN: It did. I mean talking with parents is always hard. You don’t know what to say to them to please—because at the end of the day as children we always want to please our parents to make them happy. CLARA: We want their approval. DYLAN: That, yeah. Approval, and to be like “Validate it”, because every parent has different ways of showing love. Like Asian parents are tough love. You can see it with Devi and her mom, it’s crazy tough love. You find out at the end of the episode how love is shown with through Mom. And yeah I feel bad for Fabiola, she wants to talk to her Mom but she doesn’t have the words. Because she’s different and her Mom knows her daughter is different, that’s why she’s like “I hope your boyfriend isn’t a robot.” Like “make sure!” she’s not having imaginary friends. And Eve, I love Fabiola an Eve together. But I guess it’s just natural human reaction of denial, and that was Fabiola’s denial reaction towards Eve. Eve doesn’t intentionally say that Fabiola is gay, she just says “Oh I’m vibing with you, I want to be friends with you, come with me” but Fabiola just assumed her insecurities that she hasn’t confronted are being known by someone else. That’s where that interaction comes from, so our insecurities get the best of us, and that’s this whole scene. DANI: Devi at the party is just hilarious. I’ve never actually been to a party quite like this until I was out of high school. It was always like kickbacks, so I’m not sure they exist outside of tv and movies, so some of y’all might have to vouch for it. I do know though that I am very introverted that I usually just stick to small groups within parties and bond with like-minded wallflowers. You can tell that Devi is happy to see Ben, even if they do just roast each other, because it’s someone she knows and is willing to talk to her. CLARA: It’s an interaction she knows how to handle! DYLAN: Comfort, comfort. DANI: Yeah. I also think she kind of tries to make him jealous regarding Paxton… but you can really tell that she kind of has the whole 500 days of Summer expectations vs reality thing going on when it comes to Paxton, and she’s definitely over thinking it, like when he gave her a nick name. So she’s pretty crushed when she sees that he’s talking to Zoe instead of her, and it leads her to getting drunk and making stupid decisions. Been there, done that. What are some of your thoughts on this, either of you? CLARA: Dylan, as a member of the hot pocket, I’m pretty sure you have first rights to talk about the cool kids and how they act… DYLAN: Oh, well I’ve never been to a party like that whatsoever. DANI: Never? Like not even as an adult? DYLAN: No! CLARA: I don’t think they exist. DYLAN: Okay, disclaimer, every party that you see in TV don’t exist. No one goes that crazy. DANI: I had a crazy-ass party that I went to. It was a blacklight lingerie party and it was CRAZY. It was fun. DYLAN: That’s being an adult! DANI: Yeah, but I mean, as an adult! I was definitely not a teenager. It’s mostly just a couple of teenagers having a beer and playing beer-pong and not knowing what they’re doing. DYLAN: Yeah! That’s what I was picturing, like Beer-pong, Pizza, not that rowdy of a thing. But yeah Devi is reckless, she’s reckless when it comes to getting attention. You see her just pushing us when she gets out that door, that double-door backyard. I’m like “What?!” CLARA: I love that scene too because she throws the beer down and then like clearly the entire hot pocket are low-key environmentalists, because they’re like “littering?!” in the background. DANI: There’s a part in that scene where she starts to approach the coyote, some random girl is like “Devi be careful” and I was like “Who was that, who knows her name?!” DYLAN: Don’t ask me, I don’t know! CLARA: It’s definitely a very illuminating scene. I like that word that you used: Reckless. Dani you’ve been talking about how Devi is fearless, and that’s sort of true but it’s never felt fully right, I think reckless is a big part of it. DANI: Especially when it comes to Paxton. CLARA: Yeah, it’s not just that she’s going for what she wants, she’s like “fuck it” all the time. DYLAN: Yeah. DANI: That’s true. DYLAN: because she gives up easily. DANI: Yeah she definitely does. DYLAN: She’s very reckless, she throws a book through a window. She’s savage ad reckless at the same time. DANI: And explosive. DYLAN: Yeah. DANI: I feel like this brings us up to talking about Devi and Paxton as a ship. Which we rarely do. They have some moments CLARA: That’s because you don’t like it! DANI: I don’t not like it, like you do, but it’s not my favourite. They have some moments in this episode for sure. He’s really good at playing the hero, and I think it’s something he really enjoys. It seems like he’s starting to realize that there is just like a lot more to Devi than he thought. She opens up to him and tells him about how she thought the coyote was her Dad.. so it does seem like she’s growing. Then he says the line about her being crazy but in a good way. Which is kind of rude, but giving backhanded compliments is definitely a form of flirting for someone. CLARA: Rude like telling your best friend that she’s a micromanager? DANI: Yes! As I think everyone is aware by now, we aren’t big Daxton shippers as they call it. I’m curious where your allegiances lie, Dylan? I know you’re a part of the hot pocket, so you might feel bias towards Paxton… but what are your thoughts on this budding love triangle? DYLAN: Well, are you speaking to Dylan or Eddie? CLARA: To Dylan! DYLAN: I’ll go… is it Daxton? DANI: Daxton. DYLAN: I would say Daxton, but by default I would go team Devi because she’s trying to find herself. Because Maitreyi brought up team Devi that makes more sense because she doesn’t know what she wants. DANI: No. DYLAN: She does not know what she wants, Highschool is a year for everyone to break out their eggshells and discover themselves, so Team Devi makes the most sense. But if I had to say between the two guys I would say… Team Daxton. Is that the actual ‘Ship name though? DANI and CLARA: Yeah, yeah it is. DYLAN: Oh my gosh. Okay. I’m going to answer Daxton. Not only because he is a hot-pocket, but because Daxton is genuinely a good guy. He may not show it at first—you see through the season how Paxton how Paxton can be towards Devi. And he is genuinely nice, like saving her from the Coyote, being there for her. And like Ben did not move, he just stood there! DANI: I have a comment about that later, but we’ll get there. DYLAN: Of all the guys at the party, it was Paxton who was the hero. And again later on, who always saved Devi. CLARA: I will say, even though I am not a Daxton fan myself, I think Paxton was really sweet to her in this episode. And not just the swooping her up and taking her to the hospital. But he stayed with her in the hospital, he could have been a total jerk when she opened up about her dad, but he was sweet in a very genuine way. And that made me wonder if he maybe has a trauma that we don’t know about. Because I don’t think we—do we see his dad this season? DANI: No, he only references him, like that Trent’s met him a bunch of times. That’s the only thing. CLARA: Yeah so we don’t know what his relationship with his father is like. We don’t really know what kind of traumas he’s had in his life. Like you were saying Dylan, we only really know about his sister. So it kind of made me wonder—is there maybe more that connects them? DANI: We also see him through Devi’s lens. It’s her point of view for the most part. CLARA: Yeah, which is true for pretty much everyone except for Ben, he’s the only person who gets a full point-of-view episode. But yeah, I agree with team-Devi in general. Dani knows this, but my ship is always whoever the main character is and happiness. So that is my OTP! DANI: I definitely want that for her as well. CLARA: Yeah, you just think that Ben’s going to make her happy! DANI: No I think that they’re endgame, which is a totally different concept. CLARA: Oh okay. Okay we can get onto the theory of shipping some other time. DANI: Speaking of Ben, I know that this podcast is starting to feel like a Ben and Devi propaganda, but we have to talk about Ben and Devi again. They don’t interact much in this episode, but it’s there. There are a few things to point out though. He gives Devi a backhanded compliment after being paired with her best friends saying that they are lost without their commander and dork, but it is him basically admitting how smart she is. And he doesn’t seem too phased about Paxton at this point, but I think you can see it register when they’re at the party together. A lot of people say that Ben doesn’t react when Devi gets attacked by the coyote. But as someone who has seen this episode just way too many times, he immediately puts down his drink and ignores Shira and immediately runs over to see what’s going on. When he sees what’s going on, he’s at first in complete shock, and Paxton is the first one to react and shoves him out of the way and is the hero of the day. You can immediately tell by his face that he’s pissed that he didn’t do anything. He’s pissed at himself. DYLAN: True. Okay. Now I see where you’re going. I see it. DANI: And then at the end of the episode when the whole class is cheering for Devi, he’s like begrudgingly cheering and you can tell by the look on his face, it just says it all. He’s so jealous. So I would love to see Mr. Shapiro assign them to a group project where they are forced to work together. Does anybody have anything to add about Ben, or Bevi? DYLAN: That would be cool—Ben, Paxton, and Devi in a group project. DANI: My ultimate ship is the three of them dating each other. DYLAN: A love triangle? That could be an episode! DANI: Just together. CLARA: What do you call it? I think you’ve called it something and it doesn’t stick with me. DANI: Bextonvi? CLARA: Okay, what I want to call it is Danxton. DANI: Ew. No. CLARA: Just get the “n” from Ben’s name and stick it in the middle! DANI: No! DYLAN: Sounds like a scientific element. CLARA: I think it sounds like they’re going to smoke weed and fuck but… DANI: I am such a multi-shipper, I’m down with everything CLARA: Yeah you do love your ships Dani. I think you’re right that Paxton did a better job with the coyote thing than Ben did, Dylan, and not just being the big guy swooping in and carrying her off, but also being there like we talked about. But I’m still Team Bevi for life. You know, if she’s going to be with anybody. One last thing I want to make sure we get into before fashion is Devi’s conversation with Dr. Ryan. AGAIN Devi is crossing all sorts of boundaries and AGAIN she’s avoiding dealing with her trauma over her dad dying so she can talk about boys. And thongs. I feel like I’m starting to understand why later in the season Dr. Ryan wonders if she’s actually the best therapist for her. Your therapist has to be able to call you out. Or at least I need my therapist to call me out! DANI: Yeah. I think she has a bit of a breakthrough when she opens up about the coyote to Dr. Ryan. I really don’t think it’s uncommon to see a relative that has passed in an animal. If you haven’t watched “Dead to Me” on Netflix, you absolutely should, but it also has a heavy storyline about grief where Christina Applegate’s character's son sees his father that passed away in a yellow bird throughout the series, and this really reminded me of that. I think it’s pretty common. I got a free extra daiquiri once when I was at a Mexican restaurant with my Grandma, and it happened to be from her favorite Mexican restaurant, and we were there to celebrate my Grandpa’s birthday so… CLARA: Your grandpa who had passed away? DANI: Yeah, my grandpa who had passed away. And so when I got this free extra daiquiri my entire family took it as a sign from my grandpa because I was his favorite. Not technically the same thing but a lot of people will see relatives that passed away in things and moments. Grief is really hard. Dylan, have you ever seen or felt someone you lost after they were gone? DYLAN: Yeah, butterflies. To pull a Maitreyi. When someone passes away and you’re walking around, and then there’s like a white butterfly and it’s around you, that means it’s one of your relatives who died. That’s the symbol. So I’ve been around friends who recently lost someone, and there’s a butterfly floating around. Because butterflies don’t naturally float around you, they just come and go, but once a Butterfly is continually flying around you, that’s a symbol that it’s someone you know saying goodbye or hi or something. I think it’s goodbye. Don’t recall, but that Butterfly is someone you love. CLARA: I’ve got to mention that to my friend Jess who raises Butterflies. DYLAN: You can read it online too, I remember reading it, I think it’s the Japanese theory or some sort of theory of what Butterflies mean. I think it’s the white butterfly that’s fluttering around you. DANI: I’ll have to look into that. DYLAN: But I mean everyone has a way of doing grief, and different cultures. Especially religious groups. Buddhism where they think that someone’s come back to life in a different form. I guess that’s where they went off to with “Oh my dad could be a Coyote.” Or whatever’s visiting. Someone coming back to visit you or different symbolic signs, or natural things… someone just giving you a sign like “Hey I’m here”, or “I love you”. With Devi it’s the Coyote, with some people it’s the butterfly or your daquiri, things like that. Just coincidence of maybe that your feelings or thoughts of remembering them. DANI: Projecting, yeah. So before we launch into the fashion choices of these teenagers, I think I read that you have a degree in Fashion merchandising, Dylan? DYLAN: I do! DANI: and that you’ve done some work in the costume department in other projects? We’re completely fascinated with costuming when it comes to characterization. Like it really does say a lot about the characters. What is that like for you? Did you work with the costume department at all for Never Have I Ever? DYLAN: I haven’t but I work closely with—I know the costume designer and I communicated with the costume assistants closely to develop Eddie’s look. DANI: oh cool! DYLAN: It was like winging it and improv, it was cool to see how professional productions deals with the outfit and discovering and making a mood board of how to develop a character’s look. Everyone had their quirks, and I guess the costume is what brings out the personality—for example Eleanor, colourful… yeah. What was the question again? CLARA: I think you answered it! So we used to ask this a lot on our previous podcast because there are some crazy costumes in The Magicians and always really detailed around characterisation, but if you could steal anyone’s wardrobe on the show, who’s would it be and why? DYLAN: Ooh Ooh, BEN! CLARA: oh no! DANI: Okay, okay, I roast Ben all the time but it’s usually his pants that kill it for me, he has really good shirts usually. It’s the pants. DYLAN: Oh, I don’t like his pants, I like his tops and shoes. DANI: Yeah his tops! CLARA: Alright on that note we should say goodbye to Dylan, and then Dani and I will pick up the rest of fashion. Thank you so much for joining us! DYLAN: Thank you so much for having me! It was a pleasure, it was really, really fun! CLARA: Alright, well hopefully we will have you back for season 2 some time! DYLAN: Hopefully! Alright, thank you! DANI: Bye CLARA: Take care! DANI: Alrighty let’s get into our fashion choices. So I really love Devi’s first school outfit in this episode, with the flannel, and striped black and white shirt and her red mini skirt. I’m not usually a fan of skirts but she looks really cute there. I also like Paxton’s sweater he’s wearing, the blue one, kind of looks like a stoner sweater, but a little nicer than that. It reminds me of those ones—you know what I’m talking about right? CLARA: Yeah I know what you’re talking about, I thought the same, it looks like a stoner sweater. I think it’s a surfer thing, but surfers and stoners, it’s a fine line. DANI: This is true. I mean, it’s that whole California vibe. So for once Ben is dressed well in that button-up flannel shirt. CLARA: Yeah, from the top up! DANI: in my group chat we have all joked that this is the first evidence of bisexual Ben because it’s buttoned up all the way to the top. Normally guys don’t really do that. But he actually dresses really nice in this whole episode. I hate camo, but I think somehow he pulls it off… but it’s a big step up for him though because I’ve been roasting him for two episodes now. CLARA: I just got to say one thing. Bisexual guys are normal guys Dani, come on! DANI: No! No I’m just kidding. They’re not normal, I’m not normal, you’re not normal! I’m just kidding There is no such thing as normal, it’s a made up word. CLARA: Yeah, exactly! DANI: The Bisexual ben thing is fun to joke about! Obviously for the most part we are joking. CLARA: And I mean, honestly to really know if Ben is bisexual, we have to see him sit in a million chairs. DANI: This is true! If you’re listening to this and you’re not queer, it’s just a big fucking joke for queer people to be like “Hey! I identify with this person and I think they should be queer too!” So don’t take it seriously. The next point is: I think Trent and my ex-girlfriend have the same wardrobe! CLARA: They kind of do! Sorry sorry! DANI: It’s true though. CLARA: I will say she wears it better. DANI: It’s a little different, it’s like a similar vibe but more feminine. CLARA: Yes. DANI: I love Devi’s party outfit, with her big thigh-high boots. Or I guess I should say Kamala’s thigh-high boots and she stole them from her! And I love basically all of Eve’s outfits. I really like the way they dress her. It’s very similar to something I feel like would have worn in High School. CLARA: Yeah, I think she’s really cute. And I know you did at the beginning mention this, but I feel like in fashion you also have to call out the dresses and wigs they are wearing in the music video. Why do they have identical dresses in two different colours, period?! DANI: I don’t know, it has to be some weird TiKToK thing that I just don’t understand. It’s not an App for our generation. I know a couple people who have it… but I don’t get it. It’s probably some way of showing that they can edit a video well? I don’t know. CLARA: Oh probably. But I’m still genuinely confused about why they have identical dresses in different colours. All three of them. DAN: I don’t know. Maybe someone can inform us, there might be some specific reason that we’re just not aware of. CLARA: Yeah. DANI: Did you have any other Fashion notes? CLARA: I think you hit so many of them and that’s most of it. I do agree, I think ben actually looked good in this episode, instead of looking like a hot mess who’s trying too hard. So, I appreciated that. DANI: I’ve been joking with people that it’s probably because he’s trying to impress Devi! CLARA: I feel like you’re reading way too much into their interactions in this episode, but it’s okay, it’s okay. DANI: When you’ve seen the episodes as many times as I have, you just pick up on the littlest things. CLARA: See this is you with the conspiracy theory board and all the yarn. DANI: It is me, I mean that’s me all the time. I mean that was me in the Magicians all the time. And I was right! At least once. CLARA: Once is all it takes! I will ride the high forever for getting the musical number right for Season 4. DANI: It was almost too right though, to the point where I was like: Did I write this? CLARA: They put a chip in your brain or something right? That’s the real conspiracy theory. Should we do one-liners? DANI: Yes CLARA: Alright DANI: The first one is “I WILL WRECK HIM!” from Eleanor. And then she does a little Kung-fu thing. So cute. The next one is: “I got a shitload of uncrustables in the freezer” it’s never confirmed that Trent is a stoner…. But I’m pretty sure he has to be. CLARA: He is minimally a stoner at heart. And I do think like you get a little more confirmation by how blasé he is about one of his and Paxton’s friends being on mushrooms in this episode. DANI: I thought that was so funny. They were trying to fuck with him, which is a really messed up move, I’ve been on ‘shrooms, don’t do that to your friends. CLARA: One of my quotes is from that scene, it’s: “does your mom have any old dolls?” DANI: That would be so terrifying to wake up to. CLARA: alright what’s your next one? DANI: Next one is: “I’ve been going to prom since 7th grade” and it’s Paxton, completely serious about it! And I was like: do people actually do that? Because that’s really creepy. CLARA: Well, it depends on if you have a Junior prom, it’s slightly less creepy? I don’t know… DANI: But Junior Prom is still 4 or 5 years older than a kid who is 13, that’s creepy. CLARA: That’s true, and his sister’s younger right? So, it’s not like he could have gone with his sister some year. DANI: Yeah, it means he was going with an older lady. Not cool. CLARA: Giving Trent’s Mom hope. DANI: Trent’s Mom is great, she just reminds me of the Amy Poehler, “I’m a cool mom”. The next one is: “You’re all hating on it because you’re anti-Semitic” Ben… CLARA: Oh my god! DANI: Of course he would play that card. CLARA: He absolutely would. DANI: And then of course, we’ve mentioned this quote many times already, but: “I will not be buying you a tacky ass thong” - Dr Ryan CLARA: I don’t see why she—does that mean Dr Ryan would buy her a classy thong? DANI: I don’t know, maybe? CLARA: I feel like that’s something important that I need to know the answer to? DANI: I was just like: Why does someone else need to buy that for her? Like… CLARA: I don’t know, it’s not like Alcohol! DANI: It’s not like she’s going to use her mom’s credit card and she’s going to know exactly what she bought. Use cash girl! The next one is: “Have you partnered with stupid people?” – Nalini. I love her, I mean she goes on kind of a diatribe after that about how Americans are stupid in general, but it was pretty funny. Then after that is: “Love that bread soda” I’ve never heard anyone call it that before, so it cracked me up when Devi said that. CLARA: Oh my god, I want to use that now. I’ve never heard it either. I mean obviously it was bullshit that she was like “Yeah I’ve heard that a lot!”. I’m going to steal your next one because it’s on my list too. “If I had your body, I’d treat it right too.” Mmm… Devi that should have stayed in your head. DANI: it was kinda smooth though, I don’t know. It wasn’t that bad. And then the next one is also Devi: “Can I get you a Gatorade because you seem real thirsty.” CLARA: That’s the teapot calling the kettle black. DANI: I know! But it was funny. It was really funny. Those two are always roasting each other, basically saying the exact same thing back to each other. CLARA: It’s because they are the same person. DANI: The next one is: “Oh My God Paxton, stop it. You’re going to like make me spill my vodka cran” this is only funny because Zoe is exactly the kind of girl who would drink vodka cran. CLARA: I smell some stereotypes! DANI: Oh yeah, which I really hope (like we’ve said before) I hope they start rounding out these characters, because at this point there really are so many background characters that really are static, so… The next one is: “I’m sorry, I just watched 16 hours of Riverdale.” Anybody should be sorry for that. That is too much Riverdale to be watching at once. CLARA: you say that like you haven’t! DANI: I have never binged it like that. CLARA: Okay! DANI: But I used to watch it as it came out, and then I waited til it came on Netflix and…it’s too much. It’s too much at once. But right after that she said that she read a Jughead and Harry Potter Fan-fiction. And that’s very interesting mash-up there. And my last one is: “Yo… what do you think’s gonna happen on the full moon” Trent… although according to teen wolf lore there are were-coyotes. So, he could be referencing that. CLARA: Weren’t there like… Were-Jaguars in True Blood too? Like a whole bunch of different Were-creatures? DANI: Yes, there were. CLARA: So Maybe… I think you’re onto something, I think Trent is secretly smart. DANI: I do. I don’t know if he’s… He’s probably just lucky smart, like he gets lucky with knowing certain things? CLARA: Well, we’ll see. DANI: We’ll see, like I bet he’s randomly going to get a perfect score on the SATs or something. CLARA: Yeah, I could totally see him as being a smart-slacker. DANI: Yeah, which is basically what I was in high school. CLARA: I love the exchange in the beginning between Oliver and Eleanor: “This feels like a trap…”, she’s just like: “IT IS!” Eleanor’s delivery is just perfect. DANI: I could not see that and not think of the Star Wars scene “It’s a trap!” CLARA: Well, that is the classic Trap-line, but yeah, I see it. I also love how Fabiola keeps forgetting she has a boyfriend. “Alex Gomez...I love that little guy! He’s so important to me.” But is he? DANI: The look on her face when she says it, she just purses her lips and looks into the distance. There’s so many times that she just bullshits her friends that I just don’t know how they don’t pick up on it. CLARA: My next one is Ben: “Just for one day can we learn something that’ll be on a future AP tests?” It reminded me so much, have you seen the show AP Bio? DANI: I haven’t, I’ve heard of it though. CLARA: You should, I think you would like it. DANI: I do like the guy… I don’t remember his name right now but he’s in It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. CLARA: But there are a bunch of characters in that who are high-achievers and get really pissed that he doesn’t teach them anything important. And I was like “Oh that’s Ben, that’s Ben.” DANI: So, this is something that I was thinking about and I don’t think I ever addressed it. If it’s an AP class, why the fuck is Paxton in that class? Why is he repeating? CLARA: Oh, that’s a good point, but it would have to be an AP class for Ben and Devi to be in it. DANI: I took AP world history for sure, but Trent’s in that class. I don’t think they really thought about it probably too much, I think they just needed them all in the same room. I don’t think it’s that deep, but it’s still something to think about. CLARA: My next one is Kamala: “I think about you, too. I saw a couple riding a tandem bike, and it made me think about how you don’t know how to ride a bike.” DANI: She reminds me actually of this guy I dated once, because he would say really stupid observations like that. He was very smart though. CLARA: this is not a knock against my in-laws at all because I love them. They got engaged right after they met, they got married really young. And I remember that at some point we were talking to them about their early relationship. And my father-in-law said that my mother-in-law was always commenting on things like the leaves and making random observations and so he thought she was high all the time. I don’t think that’s why he asked her to marry him but there was definitely causality in the way that he told it that was a question. DANI: That’s pretty funny. CLARA: Alright what’s my next one? Oh. Also, Kamala: “These are high schoolers? And their parents are okay with them taking showers together in their homes?” DANI: That one I almost put down too, it’s pretty funny. Riverdale is just so off-the-wall, that show just makes no sense. CLARA: And those actors are very obviously not in high-school, in a way that even in most shows it’s not that obvious. DANI: I still think GLEE is the worst example of kids in high school that aren’t in high school. But you can tell they’re not. CLARA: So, my next one is Fabiola and I know you liked this one too. “Oh yeah? Would a dork be sleeping with Paxton Hall-Yoshida? From school?” The “from school” at the end makes it. DANI: Yeah, it’s like she has to explain who he is to Ben. I’m pretty sure Ben knows who Paxton is, she could probably just say “Paxton”. CLARA: I feel like I could picture her explaining a knock-knock joke to someone. DANI: It hasn’t come out yet, but I was working on like a drinking game for this show, and one of the things was drink anytime they use Paxton’s full name. CLARA: That would get you drunk pretty quick. DANI: It would. CLARA: Alright. So, I have two more. Devi: “She’s only hot from the boobs down...and the chin up...but her neck is kind of busted!” What is she even doing? And Nalini: “How are her vitals, Dr. Walking HPV infection?” DANI: I love Nalini, she’s so savage. And she really just does not like Paxton, she has it out for him. CLARA: Yeah. Which: Legit. DANI: I mean it makes sense. Alright so we’ve gotten to the end of that, so we are going to move on to the MVPs. I feel like we can both agree that the MVP is Ben Norris, and at least I gotta give it to him. Trent is just a funny-ass character. He really reminds me of a nineties character in general, and a little bit like another character named Trent from Daria. CLARA: I wonder if he’s named for it. DANI: Maybe. I really really would love to see Trent be a secret genius like we’ve been talking about. Trent really shines in this episode, and he also helps to reveal a lot more about Paxton, and their bromance. I think the best meme I’ve made so far is the one where Devi is saying “this is my boyfriend Paxton and this is Paxton’s boyfriend Trent” because their friendship is just what fits that meme so perfectly. So, I’m gonna give it to Ben. Although the Coyote is a close second. CLARA: You totally have Todd glasses for Trent. I think we talked about this before but Todd was Dani’s favourite little side character from the magicians who is definitely very comic-relief. And I think Trent is shaping up a lot to be like him. I do think he’s great in this episode, absolutely. He has spectacular comedic timing and delivery, and he comes from a comedy background, right? Ben does, right? DANI: I think so yeah. CLARA: But he’s not the only contender for MVP. However much you may want to think that. So, I’m gonna go ahead and give mine this week to Lee, because I think she does a really great job repping the nuanced and complicated feelings Fabiola’s dealing with as she slowly comes to grips with being gay. Ben is a fantastic comedic actor, and if we are just looking at the comedic side of things you’re right, nobody matches him in this episode. But on the more heart side I think Lee does a great job and I want to give it to her. DANI: Lee does an amazing job. I mean it’s so hard to pick MVPs in this show because everyone is just really good. CLARA: Yeah, yeah. DANI: So, I’ve decided to scrap our episode rating. CLARA: I ratify! DANI: It doesn’t make any sense for this tv show because it is so short and so cohesive. It’s really hard to pick things out that you don’t like. It becomes too nit-picky at that point. So, what I’m going to do for the future is like take something that I want to discuss. Or just do a general summary. And I saw something really cool on Tumblr. No idea who wrote it anymore, but… it said something along the lines of: I think people need to stop dismissing films like Crazy Rich Asians and To all the boys I loved before as cool for representation but just Rom-Com fluff. Because damn guys, sometimes I just don’t want to deal with the super deep narratives about identity and misogyny. Sometimes I just can’t handle the secondary trauma of movies like that. Sometimes I just need to escape into a happy place of light and humour and hot people. And sometimes I want that happy place to show people who look like me. And I really thought that could apply to Never Have I Ever as well. I’m pretty sure this was written before that show came out, but it’s true, some people are knocking it as predictable. “It’s great for representation, but it’s predictable or just a little too rom-com” and I’m like: okay, but these people haven’t had that. People of colour have not had that many rom-coms thrown their way. And someone points out that you shouldn’t knock escapism representation. And they said that in all seriousness Harold and Kumar go to White Castle is a revolutionary film, expressly because it is a mediocre stoner film that happens to star two Asian dudes. And it’s true, you don’t really see that very often. That was a very big deal when that came out. CLARA: And even just… thinking about the comparison, right? Okay they’re saying it’s trite and predictable but if the storyline is trite and predictable it’s because White actors have gotten to do that thousands and thousands of times. So, coming after something that is actually showing representation in a broader way, is a more diverse cast, and being like “Okay, this more diverse one, that’s the one we have to shit on” it’s such bullshit! I mean I definitely like really complicated things. I tend to go for things that do deal with trauma because… I don’t know— I don’t know if I’m just a masochist or that’s how I process my own bullshit. But this does that too, to an extent, and it’s funny and a rom-com, and I am a sucker for rom-coms. And I would rather see a rom-com that reflects the world the way it actually looks than see a rom-com that’s like 12 different Isla Fisher copycats. DANI: And it also kind of reminds me—it’s a little bit different but kind of a similar concept when it comes to sexual orientation, but the Love, Simon movie got a lot of shit for how happy and safe it was. And I feel like: at the same time it did deal with him coming to terms with his sexuality, him coming out. And even if his parents are receptive to it, that is still a story being told. CLARA: And I think there’s an element of sexism to it too, right? Jane Austen—people gave her crap at the time and still give her crap for writing these marriage-trap romances. But also there’s plenty of pulp thrillers and bullshit like that that’s equally trite. And you don’t see the same discourse around it, you don’t see the same bullshit around it. It’s because it’s romance and romance is considered to be a feminine domain, that people take it down more. So these things intertwine right? You need a diversity of storylines. You need to be able to have a lot of different types of TV shows and movies and narratives. And not just “oh it has to be super deep and dealing with trauma all the time to be good”. DANI: And it kinda sucks too. Crazy Rich Asians was huge, it was a huge movie. But say, when you take Love, Simon into account. Or another one would be the Power Rangers reboot. You finally get something that has a fuck-tonne of diversity in it, and no one goes out to see it. And it’s like… you’re complaining about this online, but you’re not willing to go and actually see it. CLARA: But they also don’t get marketed in the same way, right? So I don’t think it’s just individuals, there’s a whole system behind it that is… anyway. DANI: They don’t, but it is upsetting as someone who wants those films, and just to see people just shit on it. And they say they want that representation so badly but then not do anything about it. CLARA: Well I don’t know what circles you’re travelling in, but I’ve mostly heard good things about this particular show. And if you want to dismiss it as a rom-com, fine, you’re going to be dismissing a lot of great stuff if you dismiss all rom-coms. So… fuck off? DANI: Yes. I haven’t seen too, too much regarding the show, but it just reminded me of some of the early reviews that I saw of the show, just your typical nit-picky critics. CLARA: And that’s why we’re not doing episode ratings! DANI: Yes. So. Do you have anything else that you want to say before we wrap up? CLARA: I think we covered a lot of territory today. DANI: yes, this is going to be a long one, so if you stuck it through this far, congratulations. You win nothing. I’m just kidding. And with that I think we’ve come to the end of our show. Thank you Dylan for joining us, he cannot say anything, but thank you. We love to have guests; it’s been a delight. Listeners thank you for joining us. If you like this episode you can subscribe online, wherever you get your podcasts. Also, if you do use Apple Podcasts, try to rate us or write a review. That always helps us when it comes to podcasts. So, thank you. And you can follow us on twitter or Instagram: @NHIE_podcasts. Bye! CLARA: Bye! ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme. CLARA: Mind-slut. DYLAN: Bro it up.