DANI: Welcome everyone, this is the first episode of Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast! I’m Dani, CLARA: And I’m Clara, DANI: And today we will be discussing, and doing a deepdive on the pilot of Netflix’s Never Have I Ever created by Mindy Kaling and Lang Fisher. We just came off 4 years of hosting our other podcast, Physical Kids Weekly, and that was all about Syfy’s The Magician, which came to an end earlier this year. If this is the first podcast that you’ve listened to from us: welcome, and thank you for tuning in! If you carried over from Physical Kid’s weekly: Welcome back! CLARA: Yeah so excited for all the new people and to have some old people back, thank you. DANI: So I’m going to put a disclaimer here: There will probably be times that we reference things that have happened outside of the current episode that we are discussing. There will be spoilers. So if for some reason you had the restraint to not binge it in one day, you should probably wait to listen to this podcast. CLARA: Good warning, good warning! DANI: So Clara, what did you think of the pilot episode? CLARA: DAAAAYUM. I mean I really liked it! This was such a fun episode and it sets up the show so well. I just think that you get a really good sense for Devi and what she’s about. For the sort of issues. I love the weird John McEnroe conceit[a][b] Yeah I thought it was a lot of fun. What about you? DANI: I loved it. I mean, the thing is the pilot is supposed to be the hook, the pilot is supposed to get you to watch the show, but honestly there rarely is a good pilot. CLARA: Hmm Yeah DANI: So that’s the funny thing about it. But I think it was really good. It really sets up the important relationships in her life. Kind of a snapshot of where things are going to go. CLARA: Yeah I kinda wonder if the pilot being higher quality has something to do with it being a Netflix show where they’re sort of released all at once. As opposed to traditional TV where you got a greenlight for a pilot and then you got more episodes bought or greenlit later on. It’s just written more cohesively from the beginning. DANI: That’s true I don’t think Netflix has ever done a Pilot Season. I think they just straight-to-order everything. CLARA: Yeah pretty much. DANI: First of all, let’s discuss Devi as a protagonist. How do we feel about her? And what do you think about her opening monologue? CLARA: Okay so this is really dorky, but I have remembered my entire life my Twelfth Grade English Teacher telling us that the protagonist in a story is the person who has the greatest responsibility to change, and I always really loved that as a definition. And Devi really, really fits that definition. She is extremely lovably flawed. I watch in-part because I’m frustrated with all the choices that she’s making and how often she’s her own worst enemy, and ‘cause I really want to see her get her shit together and be happy. You know she has that capacity, and you know the reason she’s fucking things up with her friends is all of her trauma and all those other things. So in real life watching your friends make the same stupid mistakes over and over again is the worst it’s awful. But in fiction it’s so fun ‘cause you can be pretty sure that the characters will sort their shit out eventually. As far as the monologue is concerned it is such a great introduction to her because it just tells us everything about how desperately she wants to be liked, how also desperate she is to put the last year behind her by trying to do the most opposite things from that year as possible. It’s very much what I feel like a loud teenager having lived through trauma would be like in that situation. DANI: Yeah I mean her stupid mistakes is obviously what makes the show so funny and relatable. CLARA: Mhmm DANI: There are many many times where I wanted to just shake her. Like: What the fuck girl? But I love Devi. She annoys me at times in later episodes, but we can talk about that when we get to that. But she’s 15! CLARA: Yep. DANI: Quentin Coldwater is one of my favourite characters of all time, and he was a whiny-ass 17-year-old in the first Magician’s book. It’s about the journey that the characters take you on. CLARA: Yeah Yeah. DANI: And I think she really has a journey that’s worth telling. And I know that the show is semi-autobiographical for Mindy and her co-creator Lang. Obviously it’s got to be decently different because it is set in the current day. But I think Devi is great though, and Maitreyi who plays her is just so talented. Her comedic timing blows me away. She won this role from an open casting call and over 15,000 people. It’s the first thing she’s ever done professionally. I love that so much that she’s really just unknown. CLARA: Yeah I think it’s really great and I agree with you 100%. Maitreyi is HILARIOUS, and Devi’s journey is super multifaceted. I think that’s why so many people relate to it -- She’s got so many different pieces that she needs to put together, from her dad’s death to her love life to accepting the cultures that she’s grown up with and understanding how they are part of who she is. And I think all of those pieces come together, there’s something for everyone to relate to and chew on and get really excited by in the show, and in her. DANI: I really want to talk about how much I really admire Devi before we move on. She’s so bold and courageous in a way that I just am not normally used to. It reminds me of just like: once I’m comfortable I’m an open book, but before that… it takes a lot. And I just feel like she is just so extroverted in a way that I really admire. She just walks the fuck up to Paxton in her sweats with no make up on and asks him to have sex with her? Like I could never ever ever imagine that, even as an adult I don’t think I would do that. Which is exactly why when I was doing their astrology charts, which I’m sure we will discuss at some point, I was like there’s no way that she’s an earth sign… she has to be a fire sign with that boldness. CLARA: Yeah I agree with you, I mean she’s way too… Earth signs are all measured and planny and... DANI: Down to earth CLARA: You and I both know this because we’re both earth sings! But it’s so nice when you see… I feel like everyone needs a fire sign in their life to kick them out of their routine and make them a little less crazy. DANI: High school was a long time ago for both of us now. CLARA: Understand. DANI: How different is the experience being portrayed here compared to your own high school experience? CLARA: high school was really really weird time for me. I think it is for a lot of people. I moved from LA to Virginia before Freshman year, and then I moved back from Virginia this time to Santa Barbara for the next three years. It was definitely weird for me. I relate to the way that Devi is using high school as a way to reinvent her, because I think especially with those two moves that was a big thing for me. I didn’t know anybody, I was super unpopular, horrible, no friends, whatever-- in middle school. Then I moved across the country right before ninth grade and I didn’t know anybody. That gave me an opportunity to be somebody who didn’t have all that baggage. And I think all the stuff about exploring relationships and your sexuality is very real, though I definitely took things way slower than Devi wants to, at least. And while I didn’t have any enemies-to-lovers things going on in high school, there was a guy in my elementary and middle school who I DEFINITELY had a little bit of that vibe in a very innocent way. Until-- he’s such a jerk-- so a teacher pointed that out when we were in… on the... schoolyard, is that what it’s called? DANI: Quad? It’s a quad. CLARA: Yeah something like that. We were on the quad the teacher was like: “oh you guys would be really cute” and this guy I’m not going to say his name because I'm not a jerk-- DANI: Call him out-- CLARA: like loudly loudly afterward said you know I’d never date you just I think mainly for the like twenty other people there so you know fuck him thank God I moved what about you DANI: Do you think he meant it though or do you think he was just being that guy you know? CLARA: I think he was really into his image 'cause he still is. DANI: Oh. Yeah. I was like a floater in high school. My freshman year I was like just quiet as hell. I just like didn't talk to anyone, didn't care and I actually had a teacher that was my math teacher before… and he hated me! CLARA: Oh yeah? DANI: he hated me so much in middle school because I just like I was such a class clown in middle school because I got put into these like remedial classes that I never should have been put into. It's like a whole thing because basically they lost my transcriptions and were like “here you can just be in these benchmark classes” CLARA: I have one of those stories too! OK, for another time, but keep going. DANI: It fucked me up though for the rest of my grade school education because of it. But I was so bored all the fucking time that I just acted out like I just was like “fuck it, it doesn't matter I'm smarter than everyone in my class anyways.” But I got in trouble all the time. I remember I got in-school suspension for like a week because I was like “whatever” to him. And when I had him though in high school I was so quiet and I didn't talk to anyone and he actually literally confronted me and he was like… 'cause I could tell he did not want me in his class… and he confronted me he's just like “you know is something wrong, because you're just not the same person.” and it was only like 2 years later so I think that's the thing. So I I went through a lot in high school and I floated around… I had my first real boyfriend in sophomore year so I kind of became like more known to people because of that. And then in junior year is obviously when I dropped out so I was really depressed then an it sucked. But let's not talk about that right now CLARA: well, it's… one of the things that I found really funny in relation to the show— or the way that I really identified… honestly in a lot of ways I think I most identify with Ben DANI: Same! CLARA: So let's not talk about that too much but I was super driven! And the one way in which I think I identify a little bit more Devi is like academically… if you told me that I couldn't do something, that's like putting a red flag in front of a bull, right? Like I would just “NO”. So when I moved back to California in 10th grade I had done Academic Decathlon the previous year in Charlottesville in Virginia where I lived, and they told me “you're never going to be able to set up an Academic Decathlon team here because debate and model UN are too entrenched.” And I was like: “NO! Watch me!” We had a phone list and so I went to like all of the teachers who taught the AP classes and the honours classes and I was like… you need to have like A, B, and C students in academic Decathlon, and so I just asked them “who are your best students with these basic grades,” and they gave me a list and I called everyone and that year we… actually that year I think we just prepped, but the next year we went to states! So that's my Devi moment so DANI: I… I relate to Ben a lot but I definitely kind of gave up on trying in high school so at the same time like Paxton reminds me a lot of myself. CLARA: Oh yeah. DANI: He just doesn't care about school CLARA: yeah—but he is really smart, so! DANI: but he is really smart! But high school was pretty different for me in general because… like honestly our popular kids were not jocks. But they were all in AP classes and did sports! like they didn't have that stereotypical jock mentality, they like were both at the same time and it was such a shock to me because you grow up with all these stereotypes and expecting something because of films and TV and it just wasn't like that for me. And if you ever seen 21 Jump Street with Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill— that's way more similar to my high school experience, just because like the social justice Warriors were the popular kids that's just… I don't know it's such a weird thing. But I also thought her wishes for the year were like so tame. I thought it was a little really cute and she gets to do most of them. Except she does end up drinking at a party and kind of dating a nerd from her AP class… or kissing at least CLARA: Yeah I'm not sure you can call one make-out-session “dating” just yet but… we will get our eyes on Devi DANI: so let's talk about how amazingly diverse this show is and it never really feels like it's shoving it down your throat the way that some things do. Some things I love is like the amount of mixed race that appears, because of someone as a mixed race, I identified without the fact that Paxton is half-Japanese, and it was added in because Darren is also half-Japanese, I thought was really awesome. And Fabiola is mixed, it looks like Trent might be too and the show just like really likes to poke fun at itself. Trent is completely unaware of the fact that Paxton is half Japanese and I really I just really felt that because like I've just always been told like: “Are you sure you're Mexican?” My whole life. CLARA: What, like you're going to be wrong about that? Like what do they mean: “Are you sure?” DANI: I did grow up in a in a town that was majority Mexican so I don't know if they thought maybe I was lying to be to fit in? I don't know which also it also leads me though to the fact that I love that one of her main love interests is of Asian descent. There's so many stigmas against Asian men being in a lead role or being considered attractive or love interest. And I've actually seen criticisms lately that Mindy made the show too diverse? DANI: What are some of your thoughts about the diversity on this show? CLARA: Well I think you heard it with my snore. But what the hell does that mean: “too diverse”? And just I wrote “eye-roll” down here in all caps 'cause like that's all I have for it: eye-roll—but you can't see that on a podcast. I personally love how diverse it is I think it's a reflection of what the world is actually like. Preparing for this episode I actually looked up the demographics at the two schools that I was in for high school. And the school I went to for most of high school was 58% minority enrolment with 35% of students being from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. And the other high school I went to is really similar 54% minority enrolment and 48% economically disadvantaged. Both schools were in wealthy college towns too, so it's not like it was the town that I was in or whatever else right? Like this is just the way that the world looks if you actually pay attention to it and so I think most people were making that kind of argument, like saying it's too diverse. They severely underestimate how diverse the world actually is because they're so mired in their own perspective. But for me it's a big part of what made that for a season feel so realistic. Especially what you mentioned about the bicultural and biracial characters. And because I think it does merit mentioning: Paxton is not the only hunky Asian guy in the show, there is also Devi’s dad. Who may be dead, but like he's very much present on screen. DANI: I mean there's so many. There's even Kamala's boyfriend later on: Steve. CLARA: Oh yeah DANI: He's also clearly Asian. CLARA: And the guy that she gets set up with. DANI: Yeah, Prashant. And there's like a lot of just background characters, some that have a couple roles like some of Paxton friends. I don't think he has a single white friend— which is fine! Yeah, I actually spent this entire episode thinking her dad wasn't actually dead at first. CLARA: Devi’s dad? Yeah DANI: Yeah it's such a like a pixar's Up moment honestly like killing him off like that. It was just like a fucking gut punch like right away. Her relationship with Mohan and how close she is with her father just like reminded me of my grandpa and when I lost him. So it kind of constantly made me consistently sad throughout the show. CLARA: I mean of course it makes you sad I think that's kind of the point. And it does create conflict right away 'cause you know it's going to be a big part of what the show is about. It's kinda funny, Linear was watching it with me yesterday and he said “wait they kill off her dad in the first episode” and I'm like “no this is like… this is the background of her life and setting up what's going to go on.” So maybe people see it differently, but for me it felt like it was really setting up where it's going to go and what it's actually going to be about on a deep level and not just the sort of surface of her high school interactions. DANI: I don't know it's just so emotional though, it's just like at the forefront of it. You don't even get a minute to process it—I mean she hasn't even processed it so I think like you know, that goes to the art of it. CLARA: Yeah DANI: Another thing though is that I've seen some people have an issue with the fact that Darren who plays Paxton seems to be the only young cast member over the age of 25. Everyone else is under 21, like main-cast-wise. CLARA: Like the high schoolers, yeah. DANI: They're closer to high school age. Personally I think it makes sense for him to be played by an older guy, just because guys as hot as Paxton… they just don't get that hot until they're older. They really don't. CLARAL You can't have him have high school neck DANI: Yeah it's like this unattainable attractiveness, and he's supposed to be just like that guy, trademark. Of course when you are in high school you think the guy or the girl is that hot, but they really are not when you look back. So I just think it's funny that he's played by someone around my age, and it also calls into question the whole Riverdale thing that they… I don't think it's in the pilot, but it happens a couple episodes afterwards where they're like “yeah no one’s played by anyone that's that age.” Which GLEE is probably by far the worst show that ever did that though, those cast members were already… like almost all 30-plus when they filmed that show. But what do you think about all of that, like ages. CLARA: I mean it's definitely true that the vast majority of shows set in high school have like people in their 30s playing them, or like late 20s. I actually think it's really cool that there are so many really young actors in this show. I agree with you about Paxton being played by somebody who's older. I think it would be… I don't know I agree with you, like high school guys are not that hunky, like high school neck is a real thing. I don't know why, it's like their necks gain like 2 inches in diameter over the course of high school, who knows… but yeah I mean I think it makes sense. And they're still pretty close in age I mean all things considered. DANI: Yeah I mean like 29 isn't that old compared to… it's like what about 10 years older than Maitreyi. I know a lot of people had problems though because she was 17 at the time of filming, but the age of consent where she lives is 17 or 16 so I don't think… like as long as there's consent and as long as she's OK kissing the dude I have no problems. CLARA: Yeah DANI: And it's like professional you know. They have someone on set literally like watching them 24/7, and her mom was on set so how weird could it be? CLARA: Yeah. DANI: So I'm really curious about how Devi always just like… has she always had this explosive anger? Or if it is just her not opening up to and accepting her grief? I feel like we see her go through some of the stages of grief throughout the first episode? What do you think about her having a therapist and her emotional issues? CLARA: I mean I love it, I love that we see her in therapy from the get-go. I think a lot of the time trauma is treated as character background and you don't ever really explore it. It's there to explain away a specific trait. But in Devi’s case she'll have these moments and then she has to confront them and the way that they are tied to her trauma in the way that most of us who have enough money to go to therapy do: which is with the therapist. So I really like it and it feels to me like a pretty realistic portrayal of what therapy is like, obviously with a lot of humour built in and compressed time period. But I think it is a good job of normalising the experience. As for whether or not she's a hot head by nature or whether it's part of her therapy, I guess it's probably a mix— or not part of her therapy, part of her trauma recovery— so I think it's probably part of a mix I do think a lot of it is going to be triggered by her trauma, but I also… I mean I think we see how much difficulty she has with her mom and how much difficulties she has with the sort of cultural expectations that are put on her—more so later than in this episode. And John McEnroe also describes her and him together as “we hot heads,” so I feel like he's trying to tell us it’s part of her. She’s a fire sign! DANI: She’s definitely a fire sign! I really love how they’re open about mental health in the show, just kind of like right at the forefront. And I hope that it's something that continues. I think I would even— not that I wish someone getting a diagnosis on them—I kinda hope that she gets some kind of diagnosis at some point like she does have some… I would say some bipolar tendencies? Probably a little more so on like the mild side—I can’t remember what that is called right now, but there is a— CLARA: cyclothymia! DANI: Yeah! That one. That is it. She kinda has some of those traits. She has some pretty high “highs.” We haven't seen very many low “lows” from her but I do think that she’s capable of it. Of course this show is mostly a comedy so I don't know how far they would go into that, but I think that there's really good ways to blend that and I’ve seen other shows do it. CLARA: Well, I also think I don't know that… I think if she has a diagnosis I don't think it's necessarily going to be any form of bipolar. Because I think you might see those same traits as like a combination of personality plus PTSD, which she very clearly has. She has some post-traumatic-something anyway. So I think we'll see something. Whether or not it's not explicitly or it's just sort of like continued to be hinted at as a different story but I am grateful to sort of see it unfold and see how her work with her therapist continues and maybe doctor Ryan can eventually get through to her. DANI: I hope so. I love Dr Ryan. Hilarious. Niecy Nash is so talented, some of the advice that doctor Ryan gave Devi though is something I feel like girls her age really need to hear and take to heart. Doesn't mean they will, but it was nice to hear nonetheless. CLARA: What was the specific advice that you felt resonated? DANI: I really liked when she was like: “I mean do you really think that you would make a good girlfriend right now? It's not gonna make you happy or change who you are having just any boyfriend no matter who he is.” I love that she had that heart to heart with her when she kind of like came in… obviously she took it completely the wrong way CLARA: Well Of curse! DANI: Because she then goes to Paxton and asks him to have sex with her so… CLARA: But no, I think that’s good advice I agree with you. DANI: yeah I mean like that's kind of the stuff that I feel you wish you had known when you were that young, but obviously even if you had heard it you probably wouldn’t listen if you’re a teenager. CLARA: Listening’s hard when you're 15. DANI: We need to talk about Ben Gross CLARA: Yeah we do. DANI: I mean first of all: I fucking love Ben Gross and I can't tell if it’s just because I see myself in him or if I totally would have dated him in high school. Either way, Lauren who creates art under Not Cool Though[c] called me the fuck out. She called me the fuck out and I asked her— I asked her to guess which character I like because I wanted her to draw Ben and I got impatient because she was taking a while to respond. And I just was like “it's Ben,” and when she responded she was like “that was my guess. He is the most Todd-like ;)” with a winky-face! She’s not wrong, I mean he is the most Todd-like out of the characters in the show. For those of you who did not listen to our previous podcasts about The Magicians: he was like my favourite side character that has ever existed. And… I mean he's just great. So before I talk more about Ben, Clara, what do you think about Ben and how do you feel about their rivalry? CLARA: Well before we get to Ben I have to say I actually think Trent might be the most Todd-like character— DANI: but no no no—because Todd is actually… sorry I love Trent, but he’s a total himbo, he’s not smart. Todd is very much smart, he’s just a fucking Stoner CLARA: alright well at least they have that in common. Okay so you asked me about Ben and about the rivalry between Ben and Devi, and that rivalry is so real, so I was talking earlier about the guy who in elementary and middle school who like, then, was like “I would never date you” or whatever. And it was very much like both academic rival and crush situation. I think I ended up having a crush on him basically because we spent so much time together and competed so heavily. That competition is a shared experience but it's also a form of passion and it's really easy to mistake the passion you have for winning, for some kind of sexual or romantic chemistry. I’m going to say romantic chemistry for like my 9 year old self. I think it also… Part of the reason it's so easy to mistake that is because it also does kind of like indicate that you share some values, right? Like both Ben and Devi are very driven, they're very intelligent and they put a lot of focus on education as a big part of their identity, so of course they’re gonna feel a little spark. DANI: Yeah I mean like… It was kinda one of those things, yeah this is… this is going to be a thing! But I immediately fell in love with Ben, mostly just because the actor Jaren Lewison plays him so perfectly. His facial expressions are some of the best I think I've seen in TV comedy. It really just makes the character. And he's funny and there's just like genuine-ness behind the dickhead-ery that I just like— CLARA: Yeah… uh-huh DANI: I also knew immediately that he liked Devi, and that I would probably ‘ship them. Literally the second he is introduced (28.14) he's mean-mugging Jonah because Devi is flirting with him. I don't think he admits it to himself that he likes her until much later but it's definitely there. But do you have anything else to add about Ben before we move on? CLARA: I feel like I can talk about Ben for a long time because again I very heavily identify him with him— much to my like cringey shame. But he is the Hermione of the bunch. He is smart, showy, a know-it-all, no social skills. DANI: He’s like if you mixed Hermione and Draco into one character because he’s such a dick, but he’s so fucking smart. CLARA: He’s like the love-child of some bad ‘fic. DANI: Oh the Draco Hermione Fic. They’re so good! I’ve always been a fan of the enemies-to-lovers trope and Mindy Kaling's a huge fan of it, it's pretty much in everything she's ever written but I I have no shame I ‘ship Draco and Hermione pretty fucking hard CLARA: Well of course you ship Ben and Devi pretty hard too. DANI: I do! Clara: but I do think that like it's important to note that Ben is a different kind of smart than Devi and Fabiola, 'cause both of them are smart but they demonstrate it in really different ways like for Devi it almost is incidental. She's competitive with Ben but she doesn't really seem to care about like showing off how smart she is otherwise. And with Fabiola like she's much more introverted than Ben or Devi and much more, in some ways I think of her—I mean she is doing robotics— but I think of her more as engineer-smart then the sort of hardcore-competitive-driven smart. DANI: I've met a lot of engineers who are just not common-sense smart but they're so fucking smart CLARA: Well I didn’t say it, but it’s not wrong! but yeah so I really like Ben, I identify with him and I always like having a Jewish character on the show that reminds me a little bit of myself, as a Jewish woman DANI: I don't think we really talked about Paxton, so how do you feel about Paxton Hall-Yoshida CLARA: OK so I like him. I wanna see him grow. He is not right for Devi. Both because he kind of treats her like shit, but also 'cause she doesn't really see him for who he is. I don't think either of them sees the other person for who they are. So even after Devi starts to get to know him and find out the things that they have in common, and it stops being just about sex and about “you're hot in a pool and caused me to walk again because you're so hot.” I still think she has a fantasy vision of him in her head and that's just not a healthy basis for a relationship. So I love Paxton, I want to know more about him as a human, I want him to get nice and fleshed out—that sounded dirty I didn't mean it that way— but he is not for Devi. What about you? DANI: I mean I have to say I agree I mean in some form I ‘ship them both. Because I do realise that just Paxton and Devi are inevitable, they're gonna date, they're going to be romantically involved at some point. CLARA: you got a love-triangle it's gotta try all the angles. DANI: Yeah I don't think that I've been like this serious about a love triangle since probably The Hunger Games. Although I will shame anybody that ships K[G]ale and Katniss but— CLARA: KALE?! DANI: I feel similarly like when people try to knock Ben for who he is and the Bevi relationship in general. Or Benvi or whatever the fuck you want to call it. Because I know a lot of people say: “Oh he's so mean to her,” and it's like: that's their vibe! That's their dynamic. Anytime that either them crosses a line, they immediately feel bad and they apologise. I mean it's just their thing. But we're talking about Paxton; so one thing I really like about Paxton is how they talk about him. The narrator says that he's repeating the class because he has an extreme apathy towards school, rather than ever calling him stupid. Because he so clearly not stupid, and I'm glad that the show never tries to be like “oh all the jocks are stupid.” CLARA: Yeah yeah. Though I would say they don’t exactly make Trent seem smart but we can save that for later when we've seen a little more of him. DANI: Don't think he’s supposed to be smart but you know there's always one in every school. CLARA: What if he turns out to be secretly brilliant? DANI: That would be amazing and I would be totally there for it. It would be even more Todd-like though, and you know your case would go further. But like you said I want to see more. I want to see more about Paxton, I wanna know who he is, I would love to have an episode from his point of view. But I want to have an episode from everyone's point of view eventually. I was a huge fan of Skins UK which is also a teen drama that was played by teenagers. And I really loved the format of: every single episode kind of encapsulated one person, and then the finale of whatever season they were in would be about everyone. I think that's a really cool thing, it would be kind of weird for them to adopt that. So maybe one episode or two episodes a season could be given to someone else. There's so many funny things you can get into, like: “oh who would narrate for so and so,” an Mindy Kaling has a lot of very funny friends so I think it could easily be good. CLARA: yeah DANI: but I think we should briefly mention the other characters here. Fabiola and Eleanor are her best friends. They definitely come more into play as you find out more about them in later episodes, but they're really fun companions. Fabiola is a nerdy lesbian that hasn't come out yet, that I just adore. Who doesn't like that? And Eleanor is just like the dramatic Theatre kid. Every school has one CLARA: so dramatic! DANI: You know I've known a few. I've been friends with a few of them— there's always that drama kid. I think my favourite side character so far (because Trent hasn't even been introduced yet really) is Mr Shapiro. CLARA: MISTER SHAPIRO! DANI: how do you feel about the other characters in the Story? CLARA: I love them and I just love that it's such a rich tapestry of people. So you were talking just a minute ago about how it would be nice to see some episodes from other people’s perspectives. I cannot wait for an Eleanor episode. It's going to be so insane! DANI: All these fake scenes like dramatic reenactments! CLARA: I kind of want her to have a different narrator than John McEnroe. A narrator that is unique to Eleanor. Who would you have narrate her? DANI: I think Awkwafina would be hilarious CLARA: Oh yes! That would be so good! DANI: Yeah Awkwafina would be fucking hilarious. I would also like to see a Mr Shapiro have his own episode. 'Cause it would be so funny to see what the teacher thinks about CLARA: Oh my God! Well and… in some ways I feel like it would take the magic away because… seeing him from the kids’ perspective as this like try-hard dork. But it could be fun, it could be fun! DANI: I wish I had a teacher that cool! I never had a teacher that cool. CLARA: I feel like I had teachers who were genuinely cool, not try-hard cool. I had one, my 12th grade English teacher (see I loved her) and my— Ohhhhh my chemistry teacher for both 10th grade and AP chemistry: Mrs Fry! She was amazing, she set things on fire with us every year. DANI: I definitely had teachers that I felt really close to and kind of viewed them as a mentor. But Mr Shapiro is just so comical. CLARA: Oh my God, what a goof-ball! DANI: I mean he reminded me more of like a substitute teacher, because substitute teachers usually have that vibe. CLARA: Oh yeah that's true. Yeah substitute teachers have that vibe more because the teachers that have been there forever know it doesn't work after one try. DANI: Exactly. I'm surprised he doesn't get more shit from them, he mostly just gets these like awkward looks. But we should probably move on and talk about her family. CLARA: Yes DANI: So we only really talked about Mohan so far and only a little bit. But her mom seems to be the hard ass parent, and her Dad isn't. Which feels really against the stereotypes of the Indian culture. Mohan is the sensitive, caring, loving, supportive Dad. And he's honestly the dream Dad. And her mom is just a hard ass, and she's so funny— she delivers the sass right back to Devi every time. She's been through a lot too, she is unable to have another child beside Devi— that was pointed out at some point in the pilot episode I think, or it might have been the next episode CLARA: I think it’s a little later DANI: It might have been the next episode, but yeah she is now just raising her daughter alone, and then there's Kamala, who is introduced as the prettiest woman in the world basically. And of course, for that Devi does not like her. But she's more than her beauty though, and she's funny and kind and incredibly smart. So what do you think about her family and their dynamic? CLARA: I really like her family, and again I think some of the function of that sort of two-dimensionality that we see, especially in the early episodes, is because it's from Devi’s perspective right? Devi does not appreciate her Mom, or Kamala, or anyone except for her Dad really. So of course, we see her dad— I mean he is sensitive in the memories, not just hers but also her mother's memories. So I think we can assume that that is some of his actual character. But I think Devi really strongly bonded to Mohan, to her father, and so she sees him in this sort of fantasy light. And her mom is— I mean I think there's a couple things at play there. One: I think her mom is a bit more of a hard ass by nature. She also is, as you mentioned, a single parent after Mohan dies, and she is trying to parent through her own trauma. But on top of that one thing that I kind of wanted to mention is that you hear this a lot: where one parent dies and the other parent doesn't, there's almost… it’s like the inverse of survivor's guilt right? You get mad at the surviving parent for being alive when the other one isn't. And so I think a lot of Devi’s understanding of her mom, and a lot of her relationship dynamics with her mom, are filtered through: “you're the one who survived and I'm mad about that because I want my father to have also survived. DANI: Yeah and there's a lot of trauma there, I mean they don't really talk about it until much, much later in the season— so we’ll probably save that for when that happens. Yeah there's a lot of drama in that family, but alright we have to move on: of course we have to carry over “fashion” which is Clara’s favourite topic. There’s a lot of it in the show too Paxton dresses really well he's definitely like high-school-hot. Fabiola’s wardrobe is a constant joke because she's always wearing these unflattering clothes. I would say she has anti-fashion. I mean I think she looks fine and it's definitely… it's just not fashionable. CLARA: Yeah yeah DANI: Personally I would never wear anything Eleanor wears like ever. I think I would definitely be more like a Devi, and I've definitely had my moments where I tried to look hot like she did. Although if I ever wore anything remotely like that when I was in high school I would have been sent home. CLARA: Well she definitely gets called out by Principal Grubbs. DANI: That’s true. Is there any fashion that stands out to you in the pilot? CLARA: Well there’s some fashion that stands out very badly, which is Ben! You were saying that this show is set in the present day, but somebody tell that to Ben’s wardrobe! DANI: I know. I mean his-is present. I mean I have a whole bunch to say about Ben. So do you have anything else to point out? CLARA: Yeah so I have some other things to point out. So Mr Shapiro's outfit was my favourite because it's so like hipster academic. Also I need to point out— DANI: pseudointellectual CLARA: pseudointellectual, exactly. Like you know that he considered putting elbow patches on his suit, and then he decided “Oh no that's trying just a little too hard.” But I do have to point out that he's wearing a scarf in what must be August or September 'cause it's the first day of school—in the fucking Valley! He’s gotta be boiling so he is committed to that look. Also I kind of think that he looks like a Sim. DANI: A Sim? CLARA: Yes! Doesn’t that seem like— DANI: Like a stock Sim character? CLARA: Yes! I feel like that’s one of the Sims outfits that came with SIMS 4. DANI: Probably. You mentioned Ben already, as much as I love Ben. And obviously I think we've made it clear we love Ben. Someone needs to call the Fashion Police on this boy like as soon as possible. Some of his outfits in the show are just fucking awful. They’re very over the top which I think is mostly him flexing as well because high school fashion is not particularly attractive to your average person. Not high school fashion; high fashion. CLARA: But it's like wealth without taste right? Like let me just find the most expensive thing and put it on and it could be a trash bag. DANI: I feel like he just wore something that he saw on a fucking runway and was like “yeah I could pull it off.” No. High fashion is not made for him. The first outfit that he ever wears in the show it is truly heinous. It is one of the ugliest fucking outfits I've ever seen in my life. It has checkerboards on the bottom back half of his pants— just the bottom back-half. And he's wearing a striped shirt under checkers. I'm just like: “no! What is—who let you leave the house like that!” Oh wait he doesn't… his parents don't love him that much— I'm just kidding. They love him they’re just not there for him. CLARA: They’re neglectful. Poor sweet summer child. DANI: His fashion gets a lot better as the show goes on, but the first episode… there's some in the episode that are OK, like decent, but it's that first one that introduces him that I'm just like: “why?” take the ugliest things out of the Vans store. CLARA: Yup DANI: So I wanted to start a new segment, since the show is mostly comedic, and point out what the most hilarious one-liners in the episode are. CLARA: Excellent! I have a notebook full. DANI: so for me I loved “sociopaths get shit done.” CLARA: Linear turned to me and was like “do you need that on a T shirt?” I was like: “maybe a pin” DANI: A motivational poster. I also love when Jonah’s like: “Forever, by Mariah Carey.” CLARA: His delivery is really good on that. DANI: It really is! Not necessarily a one-liner but when Mr Shapiro awkwardly says “slavery” an “Holocaust,” and then looks at Fabiola and Ben. It just fucking killed me. Their facial expressions back at him it's just like: “bro!” CLARA: Wait, can I cut in there for a second because one of my favourite ones was right before that. You had mentioned… you’ll tell us about this in a second, but like you had mentioned to me that there's a Mean Girls reference. And as soon as you said that, when I went back and re-watched it, he says “this is not going to be your typical history class,” and I could not get out of my head Amy Poehler in Mean Girls saying “I'm not like a regular mom, I'm a cool mom.” “This isn't going to be a regular history class, it’s going to be a cool history class.” DANI: And they’re just like: “no.” Obviously the next line would be when Devi says: “Dzaaaayummmmm” when Paxton sits down. I’m really really upset because I did not realise this until I saw a Tumblr post but it pays homage to Mean Girls when Aaron Samuels sits down in front of Cady and I think she says: “he's so cute,” or something like that. It was funny, and then of course Mr Shapiro was like: “Damn right.” He thinks she’s talking about the class! CLARA: Oh he’s such a dork I love him! DANI: and then we have to point out be iconic come-back: “shut up. my dad's hot,” CLARA: The looks on everyone’s faces, they’re just like: “do you have a therapist?” DANI: The straight delivery of that line, it fucking killed me CLARA: OK. So I have a few more. When Fabiola says “the janitor said I reminded him of his nephew, his favourite nephew,” I just cracked up. DANI: Why is she talking to the janitor? CLARA: Oh my god, and then Eleanor in the hall in that same scene: “Get a load of the sexy flapper girl. My grandmother died in this dress.” And Principal Grubbs: “what are you laughing at Erin Brokovich?!” And Devi’s mom: “I do not like high-fiving, it's violent.” Oh wait I almost forgot ghost-Mojan saying: “do you think that John McEnroe would let that umpire tell him he's not beautiful?” DANI: Ghost-Mojan visions are so funny. CLARA: yeah there's so great DANI: Oh man, the John McEnroe thing got me at first. I was just like: “this is really weird.” I was totally used to it by like the second episode, but [at first] I was like “What the fuck?” CLARA: You know what it kind of reminds me of? Just the narration in general. You and I also just finished watching a show we both love: Jane the Virgin. The way that they use narration had a similar vibe to me. It's a way a lot of narration is used, but I feel like it's very “breaking the fourth-wall, let me take you through this story, there is a clear narrative” and then it breaks periodically. DANI: Oh man. I was just seeing parallels between relationship from Jane the Virgin and then this show. I mean that's something we should probably get into eventually but I just I just have to say for the record that I'm still team-Michael and I thought it was bullshit that they brought him back in the last season, and then he didn't even— like what? What?! They just shouldn't have. They shouldn't have it was fucked up. CLARA: Of course you’re team-Michael DANI: But Michael reminds me also of Ben and I think that's why that relationship really… I really like that. They’re like soulmates. CLARA: Michael is too sweet, like surface sweet. DANI: He's kind of an asshole though CLARA: Well that's later though, he's deep-asshole/surface-sweet. Whereas Ben is surface-Asshole/deep-sweet DANI: True. Alright. it's time for MVP! CLARA: I told myself I was going to think about this and then I didn't. So I'm going to have to pull this out on the fly. I think… let's see… looking back at my notes, my one-liner notes. Let's see, who did I laugh at the most? Oh! there's one that I forgot to mention, it's Eleanor. So I have two Eleanor quotes, so I'm going to give it to Eleanor. “He's not molesting me, he's caressing me” was also an Eleanor line. DANI: Yeah, so… Ramona Young, Actress’ name, she gets your MVP. Alrighty so mine is definitely split between Maitreyi and Jaren. Those two are gonna get so far in their careers! Their comedic timing is just on-point. They're both so funny and 100% sold their characters right away. They were so good at reacting to each other as well, like one of my favourite parts in the Pilot episode is when they're going over their rivalry and Ben shows Devi his grade (that is better than hers), she freaks out and breaks a beaker on the floor and his face in reaction is just fucking priceless. And it's those little things about both of their performances that I just love. And then another thing that that reminded me of is that scene where they catch Eleanor and Oliver making-out. And then she's just like “I'm cool, I’m cool as ice” and she just walks outside and she just screams, and they’re all still inside and they just look at the door, and just like— CLARA: Well I'm not surprised that you would choose them, and also it's the pilot episode where they are some of the two main characters. So of course they're going to get featured. But just to make a little bit more of a case for my gal Ramona. So she is also in Santa Clarita Diet, and she plays such a different character in that, her character is complete flat-affect. Closer to undramatic Eleanor from later in the season. DANI: OK yeah. CLARA: But the fact that she can kind of do both of those things and make them both funny, I think… she's going to go far too. DANI: She's very talented. I mean this whole cast is really talented. For young talent it just… I mean we are just living in this age where young-talent is just so good! I mean, even if you watch Stranger Things, it's like “Fuck, these kids can ACT!” CLARA: Oh my God. Yeah! They can really act! DANI: Yeah. I mean the Netflix-generation, they're going to go far. So we're not even going to try a ratings (like a number ratings) here. We learned our lesson from five seasons of failing at it with The Magicians. So… we're going to go to our format from our last season. So what worked for you in the Pilot, and what didn’t? CLARA: I’m turning that back on you to start, since I had to start with the MVP. So kick us off! DANI: There really wasn't much that didn't stick the landing for me in the first episode. I mentioned earlier I thought it was a weird choice for John McEnroe to be the narrator for Devi, but by the end of the episode I really didn't notice that much. And there was obviously a good reason for it, and they eventually go over that. I think the pilot was really good and it hooked me immediately— and like I was saying earlier: Pilots kind of suck sometimes! So it hooked me right away though, I literally watched the show in one sitting. I don't even think I went to the bathroom! I took no breaks. Everything was just so good. And it was so full of one-liners, and it was just different. And I've never really watched a comedy that had this much heart and soul in a long time, and it made me laugh and cry, and then laugh again. It's probably one of the only things that has made me feel kind of better in this chaotic world that we're living in right now. It's definitely a silver-lining. And the music was fire as well. CLARA: I knew you were going to mention the music. Yeah I agree, I think it was a really solid pilot. Good blend of comedy and drama. The writing is super tight in the show as a whole, but in the pilot: definitely for sure. I love that I could tell right away that it was going to deal with real issues and not just be a run-of-the-mill sitcom. The John McEnroe thing was also really funny to me. I remember the first time I watched this, my husband came in in the middle, and I guess he recognised John McEnroe's voice without the name or seeing him on TV, and he was just like: “why is John McEnroe narrating this show?!” And I was like: “THEY EXPLAIN IT!” But the biggest thing I love is just Devi, she's so compelling. That girl takes up space in the best possible way, and I love her and I want to see her get to a point where she can be happy. This is just me perpetually: my OTP for just about any show with a complicated, flawed narrator is that narrator plus happiness. DANI: Maitreyi is on the same page as you. She says in pretty much any interview, that she is Team-Devi. And I definitely agree with that, but like… CLARA: Yeah yeah, I mean I’m perfectly happy for her to get a little love on with Ben and also with Paxton on the way there! DANI: Yes or you know they could all just date each other. CLARA: DANI: 100% down with that CLARA: Mmhmm! It could just be one big orgy! I don't think I can say that about high-schoolers. Anyway! DANI: Or… Paxton and Ben could just move on with each other, they could fight over the same girl and just be like “you know what? Let's date instead.” CLARA: always down. DANI: I have started the Bexton revolution online! Anyways, with that I think we've come to the end of our show. Listeners thank you for joining us! If you like this episode you can subscribe online wherever you get your podcasts. Leave us a review, let us know what you think. And you can follow us on Twitter or Instagram: @NHIE_podcast. BOTH: BYE! CLARA: Girl Bye! DANI: Girl Bye! CLARA: ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon [d][e]Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme. [a]Couldn't make out this word exactly-- did I transcribe accurately? [b]yep, you did! [c]Is this right? [d]Is this spelling correct? [e]Ah! It's Saxon Ahern. I'll correct it here, but for your reference!