NHIE – 1x10
 
TRANSCRIPT
 
DANI: Welcome back to “Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast”. I’m Dani,
 
CLARA: and I’m Clara,


DANI: and today we will be discussing the tenth final episode of Season 1  titled “Never Have I Ever… Said I was sorry” (Written by Lang Fisher and Directed by Tristram Shapiro)


CLARA: Before we get into the episode, we will just let Dr Ryan and Nalini tell us a little bit about what’s going on.


[Recap clip: Nalini tells Dr Ryan that she knows she isn’t as good as Mohan [at parenting], but is trying, to which Dr Ryan asks how Nalini is handling her own pain at Mohan’s passing. Nalini says that she is here to talk about Devi who wishes she were dead. Nalini admits she’s tough on Devi because she’s scared, and gets emotional at the memory of Devi losing her ability to walk. Dr Ryan lets Nalini know that it could help heal the relationship with Devi if Devi sees Nalini being vulnerable and grieving as well.]


DANI: So Clara, what did you think of this episode?


CLARA: I loved it! I think this is such a great finale. It wraps up just enough. Leaves enough open. Personally the one thing I don’t love is I feel like they hammer the love-triangle a little too hard at the end, and I’m a little more interested in the other stuff, even though I have my ships too! But John Mcenroe on the beach was so perfect! The real John McEnroe stepping in was such a wonderful moment and really helped put a bow on things this season. What about you?


DANI:  I adore this episode… obviously I would. THE BIG KISS HAPPENS. Honestly though, it’s probably my second favorite episode of the season. There is just so much growth shown between so many of the characters, and I’m a sucker for that. Anyways, there’s a lot to cover here, so let’s get into it. 


CLARA: Alright let’s do it!


DANI: I really love the entire scene between Nalini and Dr. Ryan. She seems to be able to get Nalini to open up. I’m having a feeling she hasn’t had an actual conversation with another adult about Mohan, except potentially some family members. Her suggestion to Nalini that she doesn’t always have to appear strong in front of Devi, and that she can and should break in front of her daughter. So many parents do that… appear strong, but sometimes kids want to know that their parents feel the pain they feel. Seeing Nalini cry and be so vulnerable with someone else is a really nice departure. Dr. Ryan also nicely and successfully calls her out in their scene. I would love to see Nalini get therapy for real. I think she really needs it. 


CLARA:YES. I think she needs it for more than just Mohan’s death. Frankly.


DANI: Oh yeah, for sure! You always have a lot of thoughts about Dr. Ryan and her interactions with Devi. What did you think about this scene? 


CLARA: Well it’s nice to see Dr Ryan interact with someone who actually takes her advice, even the tiniest bit. I think it’s a great scene, I think everything you said was spot on. We’ve been talking about this on-and-off all season. Some of the problem that Nalini and Devi have is that they are so similar. Neither of them wants to face their pain. I think they try to control other parts of their lives to avoid doing that. They lean into things that are not as healthy. I think what you said about Nalini not really talking to other adults except maybe in her family is spot-on. And to be honest from what we’ve seen of her family members except for Kamala, I can’t imagine any conversations she had with family about Mohan’s death were very helpful or emotionally satisfying. I like seeing her acknowledge that being vulnerable wouldn’t be so bad. It messes kids up a lot to think that crying or being vulnerable is a problem. Yet parents do that for the reasons you said, they think they’re protecting them.


DANI: Yeah, I think parents can be very hypocritical in the way that they deal with emotions. With my mom, she always tries to get me to open up to her and talk to her and be serious with her. But if you try to flip it and try to talk about anything serious going on with her, she just won’t talk. She doesn’t.


CLARA: As you and I both know, as earth-signs, it’s way easier to deal with someone else’s problems than your own.


DANI: It is! But… still I see that a lot with parents they don’t open up to their kids the same ways. That's what’s unfortunate, as you get older, that’s when it starts to bother you more. When you’re a kid it’s like WHATEVER. But when you’re older it’s like “I’m an adult now, so start to have adult conversations with me”.


CLARA: I think also as adults you start to realize how it shapes your life. All the ways that you do things that are unhealthy that come from absorbing that message.


DANI: Yeah, learnt behaviours. 


CLARA: Yeah.


DANI: But besides that part. Oh man I got misty eyed so many times during this finale, and the ashes spreading scene makes me bawl my eyes out every single time. There are so many memories of Mohan in this episode, especially from Nalini, and it just really showcases how much he meant to them, and how seriously torn up they all are over his passing. It’s especially hard to lose such a great and positive man. It always seems the best of us pass too soon.


CLARA: I think there’s good in having people who aren’t optimistic all the time. But he balanced them out right? Both Devi and Nalini can be hypercritical. And I think Kamala adds some lightness to their family dynamic but Mohan was like ALL-SUNSHINE all the time. And those two women need that.


DANI: Yeah, and then just hearing how deep Nalini’s trauma is in particular during the ashes scenes really breaks my heart. She says a few to Devi. One being, “You’re my only child… my whole family.” (which brings me back to what I brought up in the last episode, there being more behind that fight they had the night Mohan died) and second, “Sometimes, I wish I was the one that died that night.” and what I notice too is that Devi says that as well in the second episode. That she wishes she was the body on the 101, which is really similar to what her Mom said. 


CLARA: In that scene with principal Grubb?


DANI: Yeah and Ben. I feel like she somehow blames herself for his passing, and she just is feeling the brunt of all these emotions in this scene. It was such a sad scene, but it was so fucking beautiful. 
One small thing I picked up on, especially in the finale and in retrospect to this whole season… I noticed that Nalini used to dress way more traditionally Indian before Mohan passed. Even when Devi was a teenager… and in current day during most of the season, I feel like she wears closer to more american clothing. I was curious if she is doing that in honor of Mohan, because he dressed very american throughout the entire season.


CLARA: That’s a really interesting observation, and I suspect there’s some truth to that. That would be great. Sometime we have to get the costume designer on and ask those kinds of questions!

DANI: So Clara, what are some of your thoughts about Nalini, the ashes being spread, her trauma and Mohan? 


CLARA: I loved everything you just said. The survivor’s guilt that she feels, and that (I think you’re right) that Devi also feels, that’s real. To be the person that’s alive. And we are recording this right now in the middle of the California wildfires, which are affecting both of the communities that we live in. I’ve seen that a lot in the community groups I’m in where people have been evacuated and lost their homes. People whose homes are still there, they are both so anxious that it might get taken, but also so grateful. But anytime anyone posts about losing their home, you see that, you see that behavior come out around survivor’s guilt. So I think it’s really real. I don’t know if it’s exactly feeling responsible for it, but we look for meaning so much in everything as humans. And I think searching for meaning in what seems such an arbitrary death… one of the ways to handle that is to take it on as our own and feel guilty and responsible in some ways. Like: “We should have done something differently” whether it was to save them or appreciate them better while they were alive.


DANI: I’m curious though, I feel they might feel that guilt and blame a little bit more because he did die of a sudden heart attack and generally that’s brought on by stress. He could have had a bad heart, they don’t really talk about it so there is that potential, but if they didn’t get into that huge fight as a family right before this, maybe that wouldn’t have happened. So I’m assuming on some level they might blame themselves.


CLARA: I think they also blame each other. That’s the behavior we see throughout the season. They feel like those are the only options. Blame the other person or blame themselves. And blaming yourself feels really painful so I think they tend to flip that switch pretty quickly right? And a lot of their dynamic is informed by the fact that they don't want to feel bad themselves, they don't want to feel guilty, so who else is there to blame? The other person in that family, the other person in that dynamic. But as soon as that anger dissipates, you’re exactly right– they go back to that same guilt. But I love that quote you pulled out about “you’re my whole family” because that’s the truth. They are all they have left and they are pushing each other away because they are afraid of that fact. They are afraid of how important the other person now is to them, they are afraid of how much they need them so it’s easier to pretend they don’t.


DANI: Yeah. So I wanted to briefly touch on Kamala. She’s not in the episode a whole lot, but I just wanted to speak to her arc in general and where she’s at in her relationship with Devi and Nalini. I feel like Devi has really opened up to her a lot more as the season went on and saw her as being a real and genuine person with feelings. I feel like Devi has a problem with that… generalizing people. She does it to Paxton most obviously, but she sees her cousin as an obnoxious perfect outsider who is beautiful. She doesn’t see how intelligent her cousin is, and where she came from, and how hard it was for her to probably come to the states and study at CalTech. 
And Kamala never wavers, it really feels like she loves Devi unconditionally, even though Devi is kind of crap to her. I’m sure she understands that Devi is also still a teenager. But Kamala is so kind and understanding all the time, she even tries to get Nalini to wait a little longer for Devi. She always has the family's best interests at heart. I just love her. She’s a true cinnamon roll. 


CLARA: She is!


DANI: So talk to me about what you think of Kamala and her relationships with her family and how far she's come?


CLARA: Yeah I love her. Again I think that’s obvious if you’ve been listening to us the rest of the season. I think she’s such a great character and I do think she’s come really far. I think you’re right she still tends to put the family first and she always has the family’s best interest at heart, but she’s better at figuring out what her role in that is and who she wants to be within the family, and not just being meekly accepting of everything everyone else tells her to do. I don’t think Kamala at the beginning of the season would have gone after Devi the way that she does when she finds her at school, because I think she wouldn’t have thought it was her place. So I really like seeing her come to understand how she can really assert herself and still be family-oriented right? What was it that Prashant said? That he was glad she wasn’t just a goody-two-shows? She was at the beginning of the season, she has found ways to be good… she’s moved from Lawful good to maybe Neutral good. 


DANI: That’s funny. She definitely has a wilder side to who she is. Kind of brought forth. And Devi notices that too, when she catches her in the bed with Steve. She was like “What? Didn’t know you were capable of this!” So let’s talk about Devi’s friendship with Fabiola and Eleanor in regards to this episode. 
Eleanor seems immediately concerned that Ben has come to talk to them about Devi. I feel like she realizes the severity of the situation if Ben is willing to round them up and talk to them about it. 


CLARA: I love that moment so much!


DANI: Yeah! Although I’m sure dramatically in her head she thought something crazy like: “Is Ben going to ask us if he has permission to ask Devi to marry him.” 


<laughter>


CLARA: I think that’s a dramatic thing in your head!


DANI: No, I feel like she would think something crazy like that! 
I’m really curious about the foundation of their collective friendship. Were they all 3 bff’s since day one, or was someone friends with the other first. I would love to see flashbacks of how this trio came to be. Part of me thinks Fab and El were friends first and let Devi into their circle, because they seem exponentially closer (example: Fab and El seem to be able to have those best friend conversations with just their eyes), but that could definitely be because of everything Devi is going through right now, and she just isn’t as close to them at the moment.
After that scene, Ben brings the girls back to his house and they finally talk to Devi. Devi is immediately as usual defensive. Deflection is her defense mechanism and she’s really good at it. But it was SO NICE to hear Devi actually apologize. 




CLARA: And mean it! 


DANI: ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: DEVI HAS LEARNED THE POWER OF APOLOGIZING. But honestly, it’s so nice to see. And friends can be so good at helping you sort out your shit. They make her realize it’s because she’s afraid to go because she doesn’t want to let go of Mohan, not that she doesn’t want to confront the whole India-move. It’s a very sweet moment. Also can Gears Brosnan be a permanent staple. I love him. 


CLARA: I love that they got him a boba. 


DANI: It was frappuccino! 


CLARA: Frappuccino, I’m sorry! We are doing a crazy-ex rewatch. So I got Boba on the brain! 


DANI: What do you think of their friendship and where they end the episode at, Clara?


CLARA: The think I love the most about this is that they stop pussy-footing around how Devi is feeling. They had this passive-aggressive pattern going on the entire season where they tiptoe around whatever they think she’s feeling and say nothing and pretend everything is fine, or blow-up at her when that stops working. This is the first time I feel like they just confronted head-on: Hey, this is actually what you’re doing. I can’t remember what exactly it was that Fabiola said to Devi. I think she told her she’d regret not going to spread her father’s ashes. Again that’s not something they would have done earlier in the season. But that’s probably where their friendship was before Devi’s dad died and she ended up in a chair and everyone started seeing her as fragile. And I think that’s an important point too, that Devi has this entire time not wanted people to see her as fragile, and her friends have claimed that they understand that, but they still sort of have throughout the season, they see her as somebody they need to tiptoe around. So when they stop tiptoeing around and actually have a real conversation, that is what puts their friendship back on real footing and I appreciate that so much. Also, I don't know why you didn’t mention this because I KNOW how much you feel about it, but I love that it’s Ben! I love that it’s Ben who is like “No you all need to have a real conversation” and he’s the adult in the room not just there, but also when Devi tells his Dad that she wants to be emancipated. He sees what’s really going on with her in a way that even if other people did see it, they’re avoiding it. And he’s the one like “Nope, we’re dealing with this!” 


DANI: We’ll definitely get into that more when we talk about Ben, but yeah he definitely is such a driving force for Devi throughout the entire season but especially this episode. 


CLARA: I think he’s the only person who doesn't treat her like a glass flower. 


DANI: That’s a big reason why I feel like Ben and her work. A lot of other ‘shippers of them [Bevi] have noticed this and pointed it out. He’s the only person who doesn’t treat her any differently now that her dad has died. 


CLARA: And he sees her right? He sees what’s really going on with her and he has some sense of how to handle it. He’s the adult in the room!


DANI: Sometimes!


CLARA: I’m sure we will talk more about them later. 


DANI: Yes, did you have anything else to say about their friendship before we move on?


CLARA: I mean, I could say a million things. I could talk about their friendship for an hour, but I do think it’s a sweet moment and an important one to put them all back on equal footing. I guess the one other thing I will say is you were saying you had the feeling that Eleanor and Fabiola knew each other first, because they seem closer. But you said you thought it could be because of what was going on with Devi. I think it’s possible that they were friends first, I don’t doubt that as a possibility, but I do think that unequal footing that they’ve had all season has been because they’re not acknowledging the elephant in the room. So I will be interested to see how that dynamic changes next season.


DANI: I think it’s definitely a piece of that but I don’t think I’ve never known a set of three friends that didn’t have something unequal going on there.


CLARA: It’s true, it’s like a love-triangle but for friends. A platonic love-triangle. 


DANI: I did notice in the episode, it’s kind of like Fabiola isn’t necessarily super-ready to forgive Devi, but Eleanor tells her to listen to what Ben has to say. I think Eleanor is really hurt obviously, but I think Fabiola was the one who got more hurt by the situation. 


CLARA: I think Eleanor is maybe a more forgiving person in general. You kind of see that with her Mom, her mom has dicked her around time and time again and has really not been there for her when she needs it and she always forgives her. I think with Fabiola, she will accept a certain amount, but once you cross the line it’s much harder to regain her trust. 


DANI: Yea, I’m kind of a little bit of both. I’m incredibly caring and will be there for someone, sometimes even when they don’t deserve it, but once they do hit a certain point, it’s like ROADBLOCK.


CLARA: the INFJ Doorslam!


DANI: Alright, let’s talk about Paxton in this episode, and of course: Daxton.
After Devi asks Ben if she can move in, she sees Paxton and he makes eye contact with Devi, and shakes his head and walks away… and Trent has this sad boy look on his face like he wants to tell Paxton to work it out with her.. He reluctantly follows Paxton down the hall
I do think Trent ships them a little bit… 


CLARA: Uh-huh


DANI: Because when they are in the hallway later and she confronts Paxton and he brushes her off, Trent feels really bad. You can see it on his face. Like he doesn’t like seeing it like that. I really want there to be a conversation between Trent and Paxton next season where he is like “I tried calling her and she hasn’t called me back” and Trent being like “I told you that you messed up dude.” More of a conversation between them. I just want to see more of that Friendship group in general. Paxton’s crew.


CLARA: Uh-huh. So you want them to have a conversation that’s more like the one between Rebecca and Paxton?


DANI: Kind of, which was what I was saying next: Rebecca calling Paxton out is one of my favorite scenes. 


CLARA: YEEEEES!


DANI: I know some Bevi shippers like to say that if Rebecca hadn’t called him out, he’d have never called Devi.. and I don’t think that’s true. Like I said I feel like Trent was on his way there. It might not have happened as soon, but I still feel like it would have happened. Organically without friends/family stepping in? I still think he would have gotten there, but it probably wouldn’t be til like a bit longer down the line 


CLARA: well okay, but hear me out, if it hadn’t happened at that moment… If Devi doesn’t pick her phone and see that he calls right after she’s made out with Ben and they came to school as a couple, do you think Paxton would have called her?


DANI: I don’t see them as a couple regardless? So… I already know she’s going to bitch out on her feelings immediately afterwards. Because it’s just too much too soon. I think a big reason she kissed him– not that she doesn’t have feelings for him, but I’m sure in some part of her it had to be because of all of the emotions of what’s going on. 


CLARA: True that.


DANI: And as soon as she sees the phone call from Paxton, there’s no way she’s not going to want to explore that because she’s Devi, and she’s inherently selfish. I don’t think they’ll end up being a couple right away. I do think Paxton will be able to pine over Devi in season 2. 


CLARA: Okay, I’m sure that’s true, I’m just wondering if Rebecca hadn’t had that conversation with him, then it would have happened later. So she wouldn’t have that missed call on her phone. She would have been like “I made out with Ben”, and never know that Paxton was thinking about her. Just think of him as getting further and further away from her.


DANI: Potentially. He could have at least forgiven her and they could have just tiptoed around everything the way that they did the entire season. But I do know that Darren says that he really wants to see Paxton pine over Devi, because he’s not really the kind of character. 


CLARA: Yeah, he needs to do that for growth.


DANI: Yeah. BUT it’s so funny how much it seems like Paxton has to convince himself that he’s not that into Devi. When he’s talking to Rebecca, he’s like “She’s not that cool, and I’m really cool.” The way that he says it, the cadence of his voice, and the context of what he’s saying, it feels like he’s trying to convince himself that he’s not really actually into her, but he is. And when he’s calling her, I really love the juxtaposition of it showing Ben and Devi kissing and panning down and showing Paxton is calling her. It’s like in that moment Paxton is leaving a message… It’s like he cosmically knows he’s too late. Too little too late… you can see the pining start to form within him.


CLARA: you just want to see him in Emo makeup next season!


DANI: I don’t know if he could pull that off!


CLARA: Oh he could, I’m sure!


DANI: I am really interested to see him confront his feelings next season, I want to see him pining. I don’t want like an Edward vs Jacob face off for Devi’s affections. I really hope that they become friends instead. A bromance would be nice! TEAM BEXTON!!
Final thoughts of the season about Paxton, Daxton, Trent, Bexton? 


CLARA: <laughs> all of the things?!


DANI: All of the things… with Paxton.


CLARA: I think one thing I’d say, I kind of hope that Devi… you were saying “bitches out”, I hope she has some self-awareness around it. I hope the way it shakes out, she makes out with him, then we come in Season 2 and she goes “wait” and has that recognition: “Hey I think I really like you but I’m also going through a lot right now, and I’m not sure we should be in a relationship” that kind of thing. I hope that’s the way it goes and she doesn’t just immediately jump back into Paxton. I don’t think she’s capable of it but I still hope for it.


DANI: I don’t think she’s capable of it, but I do think that would be a root reasoning of why she cannot be with Ben or Paxton right away. She just needs to deal with her shit. But I do think everything that happened in the short-span of that episode, I think it’s going to be too much for her and she will be like “I don’t know why I did that” and she will just make excuses.


CLARA: You asked about Trent as well so I want to raise the Trent thing. What I want to see: I want to see Trent step in it obliviously next season. For him to notice that they’re all being awkward and just be like “y’all seem awkward and weird” and just calls them out and is right. But he doesn’t know that he’s right!


DANI: That would be funny.


CLARA: Mm-hmm. And then of course he asks Eleanor out!


DANI: <laughs> eventually! So let’s talk about Ben! 


CLARA: Of course!


DANI: This is a really big episode for him. Ben Gross is such an awkward boy… he says  “that was just the alcohol doing its thang” when he confronts Devi about the party… 


CLARA: I love that that’s the type of awkward he is, he can’t just pretend it didn’t happen which would probably be better, He has to bring it up as though “oh I don’t remember things, but was this awkward? I’m sorry if it was awkward! I’m sorry if I made things awkward! You must have imagined an awkward thing happened but it didn’t!” he’s like weirdly gaslighting her about it!


DANI: and then it cuts back to his idiotic choices at his party were hilarious… but it’s so obvious that he’s lying about being drunk. HE remembers everything he did! 


CLARA: Uh-huh! 


DANI: Also in the scene when they’re talking, if you watch carefully… I've pointed this out before, but Shira’s picture is gone from his locker and it was replaced with a picture of him eating pizza, and a bunch of weird motivational posters. I really do think Ben and Shira broke up off screen. It just wouldn’t make sense for them to still be together. Especially Devi living with him and that never being brought up, it wouldn’t make sense for them to still be a thing.


CLARA: Yeah, maybe at his party like you said.


DANI: Yeah, or the next Day. But when Devi does starts to live with Ben, there's an entire tone-shift in the way Ben corrects/argues with Devi now. It’s much different than earlier in the season… it’s softer. They come off like a domesticated couple.


CLARA: Like sheep!


DANI: Yeah. Also Ben, I’ve noticed he’s so weird with his Dad? I feel like there's another pop culture character that kind of like says overtly flirty things about their dad but I'm blanking on it. 


CLARA: Oh! You’re totally right… We’ll think of it at some point. Or somebody will tell us.


DANI: Yeah, if someone knows where that is from, let us know.


CLARA: Slide into our DMs! <laughs>


CLARA: Either way… he has daddy issues for sure. 
Also in this episode, his parents do actually seem incredibly kind to an extent, letting Devi stay no questions asked. And his Dad is incredibly nice to her in general, when he’s talking about the potential emancipation thing. It doesn't strike me as the way that people perceive his parents. It’s different to what you’d expect.
ALSO BEN AND DEVI ARE LITERALLY MATCHING in the scene where she talks to his Dad. Both with that faded tie dye. 


CLARA: Their outfits in that scene and in this episode in general: The 90s are back! That’s what they’re reminding me of!


DANI: Yeah, the 90s are definitely coming back!


CLARA: 20 years fashion cycles, I’m telling you!


DANI: I think everyone says that! But, you pointed this out earlier, Ben is so sweet. He honestly cares so much about Devi. It’s honestly kind of crazy how drastically their relationship and dynamic has changed since we first met them. The timeline of the show is something like about 2, maybe 3 months and it’s vastly different from the beginning of the season.
I really want to see Devi’s friends become friends with Ben next season, even if they don’t work out. I just think they have a really good group chemistry. 
I love how like a big grand gesture basically just falls into Ben’s lap. He offers to take her to her mom, and then malibu. It’s divine intervention or whatever. It’s crazy he has this opportunity to do this. But, is it just me or is Ben’s awful erratic driving a parallel to Cher’s awful driving in Clueless, especially the wrong highway exit scene?


CLARA: Oh my god YES! Yes! As you were talking about how this drops into his lap, I was thinking “ yeah it drops into his lap but his execution is so terrible in it! <laughs>


DANI: Definitely! But he still successfully did it!


CLARA: He did get her though, and entirely because John McEnroe was there. 


DANI: Honestly she could have probably run down there before they spread the ashes but the dramatic moment was still great. She literally gets down there 5 seconds after he yells it. Plus (I mean she didn’t know it) but her Mom had already decided to wait for her. 


CLARA: Yes! I did really like Kamala shouting “Is that John McEnroe?!” 


DANI: Was that Kamala that said that?


CLARA: I thought it was, I might be wrong?


DANI: I thought it was Nalini. I’m not sure now.


CLARA: One of them, I just liked that it happened.


DANI: I have a feeling Kamala would not know who John McEnroe is. Either way it was funny. Then of course! After the Ashes scene which we already talked about, there’s the moment between Ben and Devi when she comes back and of course she’s like: “You stayed.” And he’s like: “Yeah…. I just wanted to make sure you’re okay.” 


CLARA: <Laughs> you say it smooth, he was not smooth about it!


DANI: He was actually very smooth when he said it, he was just barely awake when he said it. But this is a big reason I’m such a Bevi stan. Ben puts Devi above himself. Her being okay comes first to him. And then SHE KISSES HIM. Paxton kissed her before. This is the first time Devi has initiated a kiss. She is literally CHOOSING Ben… like yes she’s very emotional like I mentioned it’s probably a little bit of that, that’s why they kissed but I just think it would suck if she suddenly chooses Paxton afterwards… just ingraining to Ben that he’s never going to be someone’s first choice. 


CLARA: oh don’t do that to Ben, no no…


37.28


DANI: Yeah it wouldn’t be fair.


CLARA: I 100% do not want to see a storyline where Ben becomes a “Nice Guy” Heavy quotes. So do not want to see that, that would be awful!


DANI: There’s a hesitation when they break up the kiss, Ben is basically like “Are you sure?” without actually saying it…. And then they kiss again with big, dumb smiles on their faces because they’re dweebs. It’s a really long and quite passionate kiss too in comparison to the Daxton kiss two episodes prior. Also the fact that this is the last thing we see, it’s not Paxton calling her, but it goes back to Ben and Devi… It could have ended with Paxton’s call, and then cut-scene. They pan back up to see them kiss, and I just feel like that’s really telling that they are end game. 


CLARA: That’s your end game Bevidence?


DANI: That was a whole lot of Bevidence for the final episode of the season, and our final episode for now. I know you think I look too far into these kinds of things, but that’s what film/tv study is. There’s so much symbolism in tiny things, that so many people don’t pick up on, besides… overthinking every detail is exactly how I was so astronomically correct about my last big Magicians theory from our last podcast… So I don’t care if I look too far into things. But what are your final thoughts on Ben and Bevi, of course?


CLARA: I completely agree with you, I don’t know about End Game… I think you have good evidence, mostly in terms of looking at Mindy’s history, they are likely to be end game. I don’t especially care about End Game at this particular point in time, but I do think what you said about their dynamic and why that kiss happens, it feels so much healthier. I don’t know that I would say that Ben is always putting Devi first, but I think he is genuinely caring about her. Whereas Paxton is so status-conscious that he has trouble putting that aside. I don’t know that I’d want somebody that is always putting me first, I think they need to be on an even playing-field. But I think that Ben and Devi are, they’ve been competitive their entire lives in particular ways because they have so much in common, so many shared interests, so many shared values. And as teenagers that has manifested for them as competition. There’s so many other ways that could manifest. And just comparing those two kisses. The one thing Devi doesn’t want is to be pitied. And in the moment when Paxton kisses her, it is a Pity moment. I don’t think it’s a pity-kiss, but she tells him that this horrible thing happened, that she’s not feeling great about her fight with her friends, and he kisses her at that moment. Whereas when Devi kisses Ben, it’s because he did something kind. And I just think that’s a better foundation for a relationship. 


DANI: Yeah, and even if you think back to when Ben tried to kiss her before, it’s because she did something kind for him, she bought him a gift when no one else did. 


CLARA: Yeah, I think because they see each other uniquely and are kind. They each see each other, and their response to seeing who the other person really is, is positive and nice. They’re validating to each other.


DANI: Yeah, I think the Paxton-Devi relationship is inevitable at some point. I think she’ll have to explore those feelings, or else she will always be thinking “What if?” She’s the kind of person who would not stand for those kinds of doubts. But I think she really needs to work on herself. I don’t even need to see her and Ben together right away. It would be something that… I prefer slow-burn relationships. I think they’re so much better written. So I would love it to be maybe a couple episodes before the finale of the entire show that they finally get back together and have an actual relationship. There’s so many factors that go into her and Paxton not being able to work out long-term. I feel like they would run out of things to talk about and have in common. As far as we know they literally have nothing in common. 


CLARA: They go to the same school.


<Laughter>


DANI: And they both swim I guess. 


CLARA: I mean I don’t know that Devi swims, she falls in pools.


DANI: No that’s how she lost the use of her legs, she was in a pool.


CLARA: But she’s not on the swim-team.


DANI: I don’t know, they didn’t say it was PE either. But either way I think she does have an interest in it. But other than that I don’t think they have enough compatible ground. And there’s also the big glaring fact that he’s going to graduate an entire year before her


CLARA: Yeah that’s true


DANI: so even if they were together, I feel like most relationships do not survive that.


CLARA: NOPE!


DANI: I feel like if they do get together, they would probably try to make it work, but it just wouldn’t. So when I say I want her and Ben to be end game, I mean ACTUAL end game, after she’s figured out her shit. Because I don’t want her to hurt him. If she chooses him now, she’s going to hurt him. 


CLARA: Yeah yeah. I feel like… I’ve said this before, but I do like the idea of her dating both of them at different times. I do think that her relationship with Ben would be a better one, but I also do like the idea of Team-Devi, of her choosing herself. And I think what I would like to see is all of them being friends as end game, all of them. And for her to have explored those and handled it in mature ways. When they ended.


DANI: Well I would want them to be friends, I’ve always envisioned her and Paxton being really, really good friends if they don’t work out. I think they could be best friends to eachother if given the chance. 


CLARA: I could definitely see a BFF triangle with her and Trent and Paxton.


DANI: That would be great! But yeah I don’t think the Team-Devi thing is long-term. I could never see them ending the show entirely with her choosing herself. It’s a romantic-comedy.


CLARA: We’ll see!


DANI: You thought the same thing about Jane the Virgin! So!


CLARA: Well they should have done that! I didn’t think… Well I sort of did think they were going to but it was mostly wishful thinking. I just wish shows did that more. I wish they didn’t pin everything on a romantic ending. And frankly, wouldn’t you have liked Jane the Virgin better if they’d ended it that way than the way they ended it?


DANI: I mean, I would have, yes. But I knew that it wasn’t going to happen.


CLARA: I’m just saying that there’s a lot of time before we get to the end of this, and the industry is changing and becoming more accepting of different types of stories. And you never know– 


DANI: Maybe. But I don’t think so.


<laughter>


CLARA: DEVIDENCE! <laughter> you have your Bevidence, I have my Devidence. 


ADVERT:
Welcome to Slayerfestx98! I’m your host Ian Carlos Crawford. Slayerfestx98 is a Latinx-run queer-centred pop-culture Podcast. We discuss every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in order, but we also talk X-men, MCU, and everything else nerdy and/or gay. And sometimes I’m joined by…
<intros from guest-stars:> “Hi, I’m James Marsters”; “Trixie Matell!”; “Anthony Oliveira, hello!”; “Ming-Na Wen”; “Emily Nussbaum”; “Summer Bishil”; “Charisma Carpenter!”; “Kirsten White”; “Hi, Amber Benson!”; “LaToya Ferguson”; “It’s Clare Kramer!”; “Adam Seth”; “Jane Espenson, Hi!”; “Hi this is Stacey Abrams”
We can be found on Spotify, GooglePlay, Podbean, Apple Podcasts and anywhere else podcasts are found. You can support us on Patreon. You can get access to our private facebook group, Patron-exclusive episodes and more. We can be found on all social platforms @Slayerfestx98. Make sure to say hi! Any and all support is much appreciated. Thanks!


CLARA: Fashion time?


DANI: Let’s get to fashion!


CLARA: I have on my napkin, many notes written.


DANI: Oh yeah! Let’s see, the first one I have written down is: Devi is quite possibly wearing the most heinous cardigan I have ever seen in my life at the beginning of the episode at school… 


CLARA: oh that chunky thing?


DANI: yeah, it’s so ugly. I mean it’s a pretty ugly outfit all together.


CLARA: It’s so many colours and none of them are good. 


DANI: Yeah, it’s too much! And then after, when she’s talking to Ben, I think he looks good with his denim jacket, floral button up, and khakis. 


CLARA: Mmhmm. Mmhmm.


DANI: He can really pull of khakis. I’ll give him that. 


CLARA: He can. 


DANI: I really love Devi’s checkerboard floral hoodie she wears when she's eating breakfast with Ben. It’s my favorite of hers and I want it. 


CLARA: I liked it but I wished it was a little more fitted instead of the quilty pattern that it was.


DANI: Quilty?


CLARA: Yeah, the material was kinda quilted in that it had those diamond puffy bits on it… go back and look!


DANI: I didn’t notice that, I thought it was just a sweater. It was from Vans.


CLARA: … Maybe we are thinking about a different thing, but I thought once she was eating breakfast with Ben she was wearing a jacket. I don’t know, we’ll take a look.


DANI: She’s wearing a hoodie. It’s floral. checkerboard


CLARA: I remember the floral thing I just remembered it being… okay, I remember it different. I trust you, you’ve watched it way more times than I have.


DANI: It’s like a little crop-top hoodie. Super cute. But that’s my favourite of hers. I also love Ben’s red light material hoodie when he’s eating breakfast with her as well. With the black tie dye marks strewn across it.


CLARA: I did not like that one! I honestly felt like Ben was back to his bullshit fashion shenanigans.


DANI: I liked his fashion in this one! Except for later on, I loved his final outfit– 


CLARA: The blazer!


DANI: But the Blazer ruins it! So when he takes that off he looks fine. But I loved the shirt on him, the dark navy with the polka dots that he’s wearing when he kisses Devi. That is a really good outfit, looks very good on him. But the blazer does kill it. I have written that I  love Nalini’s outfit when she goes to see Devi at Ben’s house. Maroonish/Burgundy shirt tucked into tanish/khaki flowy pants. I love Devi’s light purple tie dye sweater. I think she looks really good in muted colours.


CLARA: She does!


DANI: Because sometimes when she’s wearing the ones that are too bright, they don’t look as great on her.


CLARA: Orange is not her colour.


DANI: I love Eleanor’s look, it’s supposed to be ridiculous but she looks like a lesbian park ranger.


CLARA: <laughs> she does!


DANI: with her all beige outfits– I call it her beige period.


CLARA: doesn’t Devi say that, something about dressing like a park ranger for the rest of your life.


DANI: I think she does say Park Ranger, yes. I call it her beige period. Like the Blue period.


CLARA: Uh-huh. <laughs> No, I got it!


DANI: The outfit Paxton is wearing when his sister is calling him out might be one of my favorites of his.


CLARA: Yes! It’s that olive suede jacket with the stripes on top. It looked so good! I want that jacket! It would look terrible on me but I want it anyway. 


DANI: I think it’s because Darren has these really beautiful Hazel eyes, so it super brings out his eyes. 


CLARA: Yeah, yeah!


DANI: But he does need a new pair of converses. Those things look pretty dirty.


CLARA: In that scene, I really liked what Rebecca was wearing (I mean I always like what Rebecca is wearing). They do a good job of having her dress like a fashion designer. But that star shirt she was wearing reminded me of the sweater that Devi had on in one of the first episodes.


DANI: Oh yeah the star sweater, yeah. I think it’s in the second or third episode.


CLARA: Yeah. For some reason it really stuck out for me because I think that they are on a similar wavelength. 


DANI: I feel like Rebecca could really help Devi out with her fashion choices.


CLARA: Yes.


DANI: And then my last comment that I have is about Fabiola’s denim jumpsuit. It looks so uncomfortable. I don’t know how someone could wear that much denim. 


CLARA: Jumpsuits in general… just the idea of having to take off my entire outfit to pee is just not something that I’m into.


DANI: Every single time I wear a romper I think “why did I choose to do this?!”


CLARA: “I’ve made a huge mistake!”


<laughter>


DANI: Also though, almost every single time when I wear a romper, it seems to be when I’m out drinking, so I regret it even more.


CLARA: Oh yeah. Well I saw that denim jumpsuit and I thought “Is she trying to dress like Rosie the Riveter, but she just forgot her bandana?”


DANI: I thought she looked like a mechanic!


CLARA: Yeah, well that’s Rosie the Riveter! She’s the female mechanic from World War 2. The Canon one.


DANI: Yep. Makes sense!


CLARA: Alright, so I have some other ones. I just noticed because Lee mentioned it when we had them on, the rainbow beaded necklace that Fab wears as her sort of gently-acknowledging that she’s gay in her wardrobe. I already mentioned Rebecca’s shirt which I really liked. But then the last thing I wanted to call out was Kamala’s yellow… I forget what they’re called, but the dress-like thing she wears when they go to spread the ashes. 


DANI: Is it a Sari?


CLARA: no, no, I can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s fine. Someone will tell us or we can look it up afterward. But yellow is just so her colour! I love anytime we have Kamala in yellow. She just looks amazing. 


DANI: The first thing we ever see her in is the bright yellow shirt. 


CLARA: Yeah, yeah! And then remember when Devi gets that notification, the memory of Mohan’s birthday? 


DANI: Yep.


CLARA: And she’s wearing a yellow sweater on top. I really liked her outfit in that scene as well. And it just made me think: Oh she looks so much more comfortable in her own skin. And I feel like her fashion in that scene as well.


DANI: Interesting. So. Let’s do some one-liners.


CLARA: Okay, let me go first because I only have two!


DANI: You better not steal my first one!


CLARA: It’s not your first one! <laughs> SO just the rebecca one: “Oh no, you’re a douche”. She was such a scene-stealer. I mean, I know it was just the two of them so it’s not technically scene-stealing. And Darren is great, but she was just a level above, she was so great. All of her delivery was perfect in that entire scene.


DANI: Yeah! She had the perfect amount of pause between what she was saying, it was like “Oh no”


CLARA: Yes, I love that she’s like “Oh no” and he looks at her like: “What?” and she goes “You’re a douche”. Answering the question of his face! It was perfect, it was great.


DANI: And then she calls him an idiot.


CLARA: Yeah of course!


DANI: And she’s like “Well you would be an idiot”.


CLARA: Yeah. And the other one, I sort of wrote it down after the fact, it was in that scene that we played, at the end of the conversation between Nalini and Dr Ryan, and Nalini picks up the ceramic thing and goes “These ARE comforting” and Dr Ryan says: “for white people too”. I just thought that was great. Alright, now you can go. I just wanted to make sure since I only had two, that you didn’t take them!


DANI: I don’t think I had either of those! But my first one is my faucking favourite line from the entire series. “India is not that different from Coachella. It’s crowded, dusty, Diplo’s sort of around.” 


CLARA: <laughs> it’s such a good line!


DANI: The pure genius of that line and the way he delivers it…


CLARA: The “Diplo’s sort of around” especially


DANI:- He’s just sort of around. That line cracked me up the most out of anything in the show. But I guess a lot of people don’t get it… 


CLARA: Do you want to explain it?


DANI: so Diplo is a recording artist who has obviously played and attended Coachella, but he’s also really obsessed with India and Indian culture… he’s like always there whenever he can be. So that’s the joke. It’s really not that deep but it’s still really funny. I hate coachella.


CLARA: I’ve never been.


DANI: I haven’t been either! But I don’t like being in the heat, man. 


CLARA: Yeah.


DANI: It just seems like a big event for rich and famous people and that’s about it.


CLARA: What do you call that kind of concert? This is how out of touch I am.


DANI: It’s a festival.


CLARA: Yeah festivals. Festivals are  not really my thing. 


DANI: The only festival I like is warp tour. It was awesome. But I was also a little emo kid so yeah. The second one I have is: “It’s not as much fun watching 90 Day Fiance without your color commentary about all the quote “delusional uggos.” Kamala said that and it was great.


CLARA: I love how much trashy TV they watch together. What a great facet of their relationship. Trashy TV.


DANI: What a great way to introduce America to someone.


CLARA: Through reality TV! And riverdale! Which is basically reality TV but fictional?


DANI: Yeah. And the next one I have is: “I’m Eric… I’m a very popular and handsome jock, would you like to be my girlfriend?” Eric says that to Kamala, oh my god. I love his character, he’s just pure joy.


CLARA: Maybe Eric’s Todd. 


DANI: Maybe. Next one I have is: “Now if you’ll excuse me… i’m going to go google how to buy a credit card.” Devi.


CLARA: I love her!


DANI: She thinks you can buy a credit card.


CLARA: I mean technically you can, you can buy a pre-paid visa. But I don’t think that’s what she was talking about. 
DANI: Yeah I don’t think so. The next one I have is: “Don’t be cheap Ben, if you need to talk to us that urgently, you can also afford to hydrate our lovers.”


CLARA: Everytme Eleanor says “Lovers”, I die. It’s so great. 


DANI: Because rarely does anyone say “lovers”


CLARA: Nobody says lovers! That’s just such a great character element to have that word be part of her vocabulary, and the thing she uses. And Eleanor has not had sex, let’s be real. 


DANI: probably not.


CLARA: She’s not anyone’s lover. It’s just her dramatic Gone with the Wind mentality about how every relationship is. 


DANI: Yeah. The next one I have is: “Oh, mama… that sure hit the spot”. That was Gears Brosnan. I don’t know why but I think that whole inclusion of the robot is just so good. And I want to know who voices it, I don’t think I’ve seen a credit for it. Cracks it up. And the last one I have is: “This is my dads car, and I only have a permit… I’m not going to throw my life away for you.” Good job Ben. You tell her!


CLARA: He has boundaries!


DANI: Some…


CLARA: His boundaries are 45mph.


DANI Eugh, you wouldn’t get anywhere in LA that way… so MVP. You know what, Im going to make you go first this time.


CLARA: Alright, I mean this is so hard because everyone is so fantastic in this episode. I think I want to give it to… realistically I want to give it to Maitryei because I think she is amazing and honestly I think I haven’t given it to her all season because I’ve been trying to pump everyone else up, but there’s no way I can get out of the season without giving her MVP because she’s great! Maybe I gave it to her in the first episode, but either way. She’s fantastic. This is about her, it’s about Poorna too! Then my little side, just want to call out one more time, Lily Moore who plays Rebecca is just fucking amazing in the one scene she has. 


DANI: She is! Well for me this was way too hard. I think I’m going to split it… I know I keep bitching out here. I’ve given it to Maitreyi plenty of times but I think Maitreyi, Poorna and Jaren all deserve the gold medal here. They have consistently killed it this season, and just Jaren for all of his subtle humor…. Maitreyi for just killin it as Devi all season long and making me love this show so much… and Poorna is just such a powerhouse… she’s so good at all of it, the humor, the drama, the trauma. She has such a nuanced performance. They all do really, but those three stand out to me a lot in this episode, and the season as a whole. 


CLARA: Yeah I think they’re good choices. Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong, but I think we’re both right that Poorna and Maitreyi have to get recognised in this episode. 


DANI: Yes.


CLARA: Yeah-yas. we’re smart!


DANI: Yaas! So the final topic that I have is let’s talk about what we want to see or think we’ll see in season 2. I mean we’ve kind of gone there a little bit within the episode. The first thing that I have is I want Devi to at least choose herself at the beginning. She has a long way to go before she can be in a relationship. Continue going to therapy, maybe her mom can go to therapy too! That’s the first thing that I have.


CLARA: Maybe they can go to therapy together?


DANI: Maybe. But I think it would probably help them to see different therapists as well.


CLAR: I think also, Nalini would do really good in a grief group setting. What I would love to see is see her in a group like that, but maybe specifically a group for Indians in the United States, or Indian-Americans who are going through that. I feel like it’s important to talk about how important it can be to have a therapy experience that reflects your identity or understands particular cultural and identity issues. I think that would be a good experience for Nalini to have. 


DANI: For sure. The next one I have is: To see more of the adults in the series in general. The parents, Kamala, Shapiro. I think there needs to be more.


CLARA: oh my god. I hope we get a parent-teacher conference! That would be so funny wouldn’t it?!


DANI: That could be what starts that one point that I have that I think there should be the Nalini and Shapiro Dating side-plot that I told you about.


CLARA: I hear you on that, I just feel like… She would eat him for breakfast.


DANI: I had a dream about it so that’s where it came from. And I was kinda surprised I hadn’t thought of it before. But it would be hilarious because it would be so embarrassing for Devi. 


CLARA: It would be like… do you know in GIlmore Girls, Lorelai dates Max. But it wouldn’t be like that, it would be like if Lane’s mom dated Max.


DANI: For one you know he would embarrass the shit out of her because you know he would 100% talk to Devi at school about it inappropriately. 


CLARA: Oh my god, he would. We’ve talked about it before, it would be so fun.


DANI: Yeah I have it in my mind that he would say something like “Your mom is a sensual woman, Devi. You should be proud”. And Nalini just needs a boy-toy, I think it would be funny. And I feel like he would try not to put a label on it, he’d be like “Labels are oppressive” and then Ben would be like: “Devi’s mom just doesn’t want to call you her boyfriend”.


CLARA: I feel like we’ve had this conversation before, I feel like you’ve said the oppressive thing before and I feel like I’ve said the sensual woman thing before. 


DANI: I think so, but I had to put all that there because I think it would be fucking hilarious.


CLARA: Alright, what else is on your wishlist?


DANI: The next thing I have is How Fabiola is continuing to handle her previous coming out. I want more to it, it’s not like you come out and you’re done. 


CLARA: We talked about this a little bit when we had Lee and Ramona, it would be good to see her and Eve navigating a relationship where they have had such different experiences coming to terms with their sexuality. I like doing it at a point where Fabiola’s already out. You see so many stories that feel like one partner being frustrated with one partner not being out or pressuring them to come out, and I’m sick of that. I don’t like that. It’s relevant sometimes but…


DANI: It’s overdone.


CLARA: Yeah! And I’ve seen so many versions of it where it’s not questioned that one partner is kind of pressuring the other one to come out. So I like the idea of having them navigate the unevenness of their experience as queer people, but where coming out is not tablesticks. 


DANI: Yeah. Definitely. After that I think I want to see Double- or even triple-dates, I feel like that would be really funny. 


CLARA: I feel like it would be really funny to have Trelinor and Bevi dates and then have Trent go back and report to Paxton.


DANI: He would! I want an episode or two that devotes to other point of views other than Devi’s obviously. I’ve talked about that with everybody. Even if it’s just little pieces of an episode. You know how TV Shows will have that clips episode or recap episodes, something like that, there’s little stories all within that one half-hour. I want to see a dance of some sort or Halloween, I would love to see Halloween. It’s such a  thing for teenagers, teenagers love Halloween. It’s obviously coming up for them.


CLARA: And I feel like it’s interesting to have Halloween whenever you have a character who is bicultural. Even in Australia they don’t do Halloween, it’s just starting to be a thing and most people think it’s kind of weird. 


DANI: Really?


CLARA: Yeah, yeah. It’s a really American thing. 


DANI: A lot of people I know celebrate it that are in other countries, but I definitely do think it’s probably pretty Americanised.


CLARA: Yeah, I feel like it would be an interesting thing to see from the perspective of a bicultural character, and how her family deals with it.


DANI: Her family I assume hates it, but she probably loves it.


CLARA: I bet Kamala could be into it. 


DANI: She could probably be.


CLARA: Dresses as a Riverdale character.


DANI: oh no I could see her dressing up as probably Veronica out of all of them. 


CLARA: No no no, I think she would dress up as Betty.


DANI: Maybe Dark Betty?


CLARA: Why do you think Kamala would be the dark one? She’s all sweetness.


DANI: Because it’s HALLOWEEN!


CLARA: Yerah but I don’t feel like she would do that, I feel like she would find the most innocent character. 


DANI: I don’t know about that. She’s got that little dark side to her. I know it. And of course I have Trelinor as a point.


CLARA: TRELINOR! If we don’t get Trelinor next season I riot. 


DANI: I think it’s a good possibility considering both actors ship it. I mean, could have started a revolution. The next point I have is Bi Ben, I would love to see Bi Ben, that’s a huge hope for me. I just think there should be more bisexual men in media, and you rarely see that kind of stuff in comedy specifically. You’ll see it a lot in other dramas. In comedy it’s so rare, I’d just love to see it. I’d love to see Paxton way more and not just as Devi’s object of affection.


CLARA: yeah because we know so little about him really.


DANI: Yeah, he’s truly an enigma. 


CLARA: He needs a POV episode.


DANI: He absolutely does, I feel like if anyone is going to get it, it will be Paxton.


CLARA: I definitely want the Trent POV episode where Trent is voicing Trent.


DANI: And breaks the fourth wall?


CLARA: No not even breaking the fourth wall, I just want him to be too simple to have a celebrity voicing him. I want it to be not a fantasy-life thing. I feel like for a lot of them it’s how they are in their head, and I feel like Trent in his head is exactly like how he is on screen. So that’s what I want. I want to see that. 


DANI: I think that would be funny, but I feel like if it were going to be any celebrity it would be Seth Rogen for obvious reasons.


CLARA: <Laughs> but I want it to be just Trent! UGH! You’re asking me what I want. I’m telling you what I want <laugh>


DANI: I’m telling you what I think would be funny! If it wasn’t him, then Seth Rogen is pretty much the only choice. And I also have more Kamala, I love her. She just should be involved more. I want to see more memories of Mohan, maybe even some that are negative, I know that we’ve mentioned that before. 


CLARA: We need to see him not be perfect.


DANI: That’s all I have, so…


CLARA: And the big thing, not just in therapy, but Devi actually dealing with her shit. I want to see her work to repair her relationship with Eleanor and Fab in more than just that one apology moment. I feel like it’s too clean, and we need to break out of the cycle of her doing shitty things and then apologizing and they come back to her. So I think having them have some more real conversations about what is going on with Devi, but also how it’s impacting her friends and what they need from her. I don’t think we’d get that in a comedy, but I’d like to see them actually negotiate that collectively. Maybe Ben could mediate. Or Trent!


DANI: For being a comedy I feel like it still gets pretty emotional and has a lot of punch for that.


CLARA: It does, I just feel like it’s hard to have extended conversations, extended confrontations in a comedy. Things that don’t get tied up in one episode. I would like for them to have some more real conversations about her dad and not just be like… I guess I want them to move her emotional arc forward and not just move plot forward in other ways.


DANI: yeah.


CLARA: I sort of was giving a lot of this as I go, but I do want to see more of Eve and Fabiola’s relationship, and that un-evenness. I do think it would be good to see Devi and her Mom do some therapy together. I agree that they need separate therapists as well, but I also think they need to work through their shit, and they’re not good at doing it on their own because they’re too similar. So I think they need separate grief counselling, but they also need to figure out how to negotiate their dynamic without Mohan. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, I just add to them. I want to see pictures of Mohan that complicate the perfect, always sunny disposition.


DANI: Definitely. Is there anything that I didn’t put down that you can think of?


CLARA: I mean you covered almost everything! So… <laughs> No I think you got it! It’s mostly things that I would sort of amp up in one way or another. The only thing you didn’t mention that I already mentioned in response to something you said, which is Trent getting a POV episode where he’s Trent. 


DANI: And with that, I think we’ve come to the end of our show. We are trying to plan a few specials for the fall and/or winter, hopefully with some of our favorite actors we couldn’t get on during the season. We’ll keep everyone updated on our instagram page that we will try to remain active on! 


CLARA: And just really quickly, one thing I’m going to do as we wait for some of those specials, is I’m going to put the episodes back in the feed so you’ll see the first episode the week after this, and the second episode two weeks later, just so that they’re active and you can find them really easily. 


DANI: Listeners, thank you for joining us all season. If you liked this episode, you can subscribe online wherever you get your podcasts. If you haven’t left a rating and review on apple podcasts, it would be amazing if you do, because then people can find our podcast easier.  You can follow us on Twitter or instagram @nhie_podcast. Bye!


CLARA: Bye! CLARA: ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme.
 
CLARA: Mind slut!


CLARA: You just want to see him in Emo makeup next season!