NHIE – 1x08 TRANSCRIPT DANI: Welcome back to “Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast”. I’m Dani, CLARA: and I’m Clara, DANI: and today we will be discussing the eighth episode titled “Never Have I Ever… Pissed off Everyone I Know” CLARA: Today we have a guest, one we’ve been promising for a while now: Ben Norris who plays Dani’s favourite character Trent Harrison! Welcome Ben! BEN: Thank you for having me, I’m very excited to be here! DANI: Yay! CLARA: And before we get too far into the episode, I’m going to play a little clip to tell us a little bit about what this is about! [Recap clip: Mr Shapiro wishes Ben a happy birthday, which is how Devi discovers that it is his birthday. Devi says that she has to be nice to him because of his birthday and asks him what his plans are, to which he states he does not have any plans] DANI: So, Clara, what did you think of this episode? CLARA: I loved it, of course! You ask me this every week and of course I love the episodes! And I think this won’t be a surprise for you—this is such a funny show, I really like the episodes that get into more dramatic territory, and this is definitely one of those more dramatic episodes. So I enjoy it, I like seeing Devi held accountable for her actions, just a tiny, tiny bit! And I’m sure we’ll talk a lot about Bevi and Daxton at some point in this episode! What did you think? DANI: Of course this is a great episode, I love it. A lot of the fandom really loves this episode too. A lot of the conflict really comes to a head with Devi’s actions and a lot of feelings come to light between Devi’s respective love-interests. There’s a lot going on in this episode within a short amount of time, it’s one of those episodes that feels really long but it’s not, in a good way. Did you like this episode Ben? What was shooting like for you? BEN: Yeah this episode was awesome front to back! This was actually the most social episode for us because all of the characters were there at this party. So it just really almost felt like student films at college where you’re all just hanging out just waiting to shoot. And we’re at this insane house in the Valley. That house was crazy. And fun-fact: I don’t think they dressed that house, I think everything that you see, that was what was in that house. So it was very strict: if you weren’t shooting you could not be in that house. We were all hanging out outside. It was really great, it was just a few nights of fun. We had such a great time on this show. CLARA: I feel like that explains why the punch was outside! BEN: Yes, very much so, absolutely. I mean there was even stuff on the ground, fake turf on the ground so that it wouldn’t get on their turf. It was… they did it right, yeah. CLARA: We’re gonna start us off with a short game of “Never Have I Ever,” just like we did with our previous guests, because the title of the show demands it. Our version is a bit different than the standard one: there are no losers, so we’re just going to answer every question with “I have” or “I’ve never” and if you’re listening and you want to tally up our scores, by all means do. DANI: Alrighty so the first question is: Never Have I Ever… had a few drinks and spilled information I shouldn’t have. BEN: I think we’ve all—oh well you said “never have I ever” so you HAVEN’T! CLARA: no no, that’s just the prompt! BEN: Oh! Okay, got it, got it! Yeah I mean I definitely have. I don’t know if I could put my finger on one specific time, because there’s probably a lot of times. I don’t like drama, I don’t like stirring up drama… I don’t know. I’m just going to say I’ve done that probably many times. But I do like sharing information though. Even though I don’t like drama, I’m kind of like my father where I’m addicted to sharing information so… CLARA: your hair is full of secrets! BEN: Yes exactly! CLARA: I’m sure I have too… I don’t know, I feel like I am the same way where I say I don’t like the drama… but it’s kind of fun to watch from afar when it has nothing to do with you, so I’m certain I’ve had a few drinks too many at some point and done that. BEN: That’s true! DANI: I have a similar answer, I’m sure I have. But usually it’s when I give others drinks that they tend to open up to me CLARA: Don’t drink around Dani! CLARA: Alright we have another alcohol-related one: Never Have I Ever… been to a church and a bar in the same day BEN: No. I haven’t. OH! No… no no I haven’t. I’m trying to think if I’ve been to a wedding and then the after-party was at a bar… But I don’t think so. Growing up I only went to church a handful of times, I’m actually inter-faith. So there was synagogue, there was church in my childhood, but I was a child so I was not going to bars after. DANI: I haven’t technically… but I did show up to my great uncle’s memorial/wake very very hungover CLARA: DANI! DANI: and I’m pretty sure still technically intoxicated. But my cousin and his girlfriend were visiting and I hadn’t seen them in forever, so I was like “let’s go out!” And then we did and then all regretted it the next day. CLARA: At first I thought I definitely hadn’t because I’m Jewish so most of my religious experiences there are synagogues and temples. But! I’ve been in Choirs for many years and I’m sure there must be at least one time where I have been in a choir-concert and then been in a bar afterwards. DANI: Nothing too crazy. CLARA: No! DANI: Never have I ever posted a picture on social media to make someone jealous. BEN: mmmmmm… BEN: You know what, I’m going to say: Yes I have. But it’s never been to make a love-interest jealous… it’s been to make a friend jealous… CLARA: a frenemy? BEN: A frenemy, if you will! I’m a big hockey fan and growing up I’m a huge Rangers fan because I’m from New York. And one of my childhood traditions (because we knew someone who works for the organisation every Christmas) is we would go to their training facility and skate around during the mornings. And every year I would post a picture from the training facility just to make all of my friends jealous who are all also Ranger fans. But never to make a love-interest jealous, because I don’t think I have that in my blood. CLARA: I’ve totally done what you’ve described, the trying-to-make-friends-jealous. I think even when I went to Harry Potter world, that was basically that! Those pictures weren’t for me, I was there! But I don’t think I’ve done it with a love-interest. To be honest I don’t think that’s for me. DANI: I don’t think “make them jealous” is the right context. For me it’s just like: you just want that person to think about you. You know? Like: “you’re missing out” BEN: I get that! DANI: I’ve definitely posted those! BEN: Well-put! That was well-put! CLARA: alright, Never Have I Ever… intentionally cockblocked a friend BEN: These are juicy. These are pretty juicy! CLARA: And we’re not even drunk! BEN: Yes. Yes I have. But I was part of a group that did it. I mean I was in high school and I think the point of high school is to learn how to grow up, and it was before we learned how to grow up. And before anything happened it was me and a group of people and we did a Conga line into where it was about to take place… and then it didn’t take place so… we really nipped it in the bud! CLARA: That’s a fantastic cock-block story: you did a conga line into the room where it happens! BEN: all parties involved were cracking up. It was hilarious. So… CLARA: It’s hard to be mad when there’s a conga line! BEN: It was pretty fantastic. CLARA: What about you Dani? DANI: I definitely have, but generally when this happens it’s me trying to stop something bad from happening, like a friend’s going to regret it the next day. Because some of my friends have terrible taste so I usually try to step in, be like “no… you’re good… don’t do that”. BEN: You’re doing the heroic cock-block. That’s a heroic one right there! CLARA: Mine is, I don’t think quite the same as your story but one of my friends both had a mutual friend who (it was pretty clear for a long time) had a crush on her, but they were also just really close friends. They had been friends for four years and they didn’t want to mess things up. He asked her to what she thought was a Group Movie, and it turned out to just be the two of them, and she said “can you come with” and I did, and I intentionally sat right between them! DANI: OHHHH GOD! BEN: Well done! CLARA: I’m sorry if you hear this, I know he listened to our last podcast! It was to save face for everyone, I’m sorry! DANI: Sometimes you gotta take one for the team. Alright. Never Have I Ever… lost my cell phone more than once in a week. BEN: No. I’ve broken my cell phone more than once in a week… CLARA: what?! BEN: As in I broke one, got a new one and broke another one. I’ve actually (knock on wood) have never lost a cell phone but have broken MANY cell phones. So a little bit of an amendment to that one from me. CLARA: I have never broken or lost a cell phone. I’ve had cell phones break, but on the inside. DANI: Yeah, eventually they just give out. I haven’t done that, I’ve definitely lost a cell phone, it was my first cell phone. So when I was in Middle school I lost my first phone. I also think it might have been stolen so it also could have gone either way. But I don’t think I have lost one since them. I’ve broken quite a few but never in the same time frame. CLARA: I got my first cell phone in 2001 when I went to college and they were still bricks then. I don’t think it would be possible to lose those. Never Have I Ever… taken a nap and missed all my classes for a day. Or I think we can say missed a work shift. BEN: Yeah, I mean never a work shift, but classes in college absolutely. My freshman year I did NOT do well my freshman year. I got a 1.9 my first semester. And a lot of that had to do with sleeping through classes. So I learned my lesson and I did really well the rest of College so, there you go! I’m a success story, that’s what I am! DANI: I absolutely have done it. I’ve definitely taken a nap, or missed a class or two and then just been like “what’s the point of going to my last class”. CLARA: I’m not sure I missed all classes but similarly I’ve signed up for 8AM Spanish class my freshman year of college and that was such a mistake. I don’t know what possessed me to do that. And then in my senior year I once slept through a work thing because I had pulled an all-nighter to turn in my senior thesis and I took what was supposed to be an hour-long nap three hours before an event I was supposed to film and… slept through the event! So: good job me! BEN: That’s kind of justified though because you were up doing work, so it’s like you give and take. You know? CLARA: Yeah, yeah, let’s go with that! BEN: I also took— my first semester I also took an 8am media arts class and I didn’t go often. CLARA: There should not even be 8AM classes for Freshmen. BEN: I agree. They’re setting you up for failure, that’s what they’re doing. CLARA: Exactly. I don’t blame me, I blame them! DANI: I took a philosophy class at 8AM in the morning and I actually did show up most of the time but our Professor bailed on us all of the time. And I was like “I’m here! At 8AM! And you’re not here!” And she would always bail literally 10 minutes to class, and email would pop up and be like “oh I’m not showing up”. I would usually go get coffee and chill out before my next class but it was so annoying. CLARA: I do have to say, when I was a TA before Grad school I really liked taking on the 8AM sessions because it felt like a challenge! I was like “If I can get you interested in semantics, formal logic at 8AM then my day is made!” BEN: I like that mentality! That’s a fighter mentality, you know? I will dominate you with intriguing lessons! CLARA: I will teach you into submission! BEN: yeah exactly! DANI: The next one is Never Have I Ever… hit on someone I knew was in a relationship. CLARA: So wait a second, define “hit-on” for this. DANI: Like… flirted with or tried to have a thing with. CLARA: But which… BEN: Yeah, I feel like there’s a difference there, people have told me that I’m a very naturally flirty person but… DANI: But I mean intentionally, like you knew what you were doing! BEN: Oh… actually yes. Yes I have! CLARA: So this is the thing, I have flirted with people who are in relationships before when I am in a relationship because you know it’s totally safe, right, like… DANI: PFFF CLARA: Oh! Dani do you want me to whip out receipts from the first year of the Magicians when we were flirting with Arjun every fucking time and episode played! DANI: I… I don’t know if you would call that flirting but… CLARA: I’ll send them to Varsha! But I mean that’s the thing, I do think that’s flirting but you don’t mean it to go anywhere. DANI: I’m talking about if you’re trying to get someone who is in a relationship. CLARA: So that’s what I wanted to ask about, and honestly I’m sure that I have at some point, because… I feel like you do stupid things in your youth. Not in a long time. But I’ve definitely flirted with people who are in relationships and still do! BEN: I feel like I did. I have my mind on one memory now, I feel like I did, and I feel bad about it however it was an extremely mutual thing you know. I don’t do that, I respect people’s relationships and whatnot. This was someone I had just met that night. Nothing happened so that’s good! CLARA: Yeah! BEN: Nothing happened but it was definitely a mutual flirty-ness. But nothing happened. DANI: I’ve definitely been caught in that a few times. It’s generally if somebody I’m interested in is seeing someone that they don’t even want to be with anymore but like won’t end it. CLARA: Dani… DANI: All the time. That’s happened to me a couple times. CLARA: Dani… BEN: I like how honest this is, this is good! This is therapeutic. DANI: I feel like everyone is kind of inherently selfish when it comes to their own feelings. They think “I’m the better option”. So I’m sure everyone’s done it at least once. BEN: My girlfriend and I just started watching Vanderpump rules because of quarantine, and what you just said is chef’s kiss to a T. You’re right, you’re right. Absolutely. CLARA: Alright, so one last prompt: Never Have I Ever… moved in with someone after one month of dating. BEN: No I have not. My girlfriend currently is the first girl I’ve ever lived with and we dated about a year before moving in on the day that everything started shutting down for quarantine so… interesting timing, but nope. DANI: That must have been a real test for you guys! BEN: it was it was really interesting and we crushed it, it was really awesome. And she’s a fantastic writer so she even wrote an essay about moving in with her boyfriend during a pandemic and we found humour in it and whatnot. It was awesome. DANI: I saw some of your skits about it, it was really funny. BEN: That’s another way we’ve been using art to make sense of what’s going on so, having a great time. DANI: I haven’t moved in with someone after a month, but it’s pretty close-to. Me and my ex-girlfriend moved in probably about three of four months after we got together. So many U-Haul jokes were made. CLARA: I think Lanier is the shortest time between when I started dating someone and when I moved in with them and that was after like 6 months. And he wasn’t even fully moved in at that point. Basically we moved all of my stuff, and his lease went on like a little bit longer. So he was living there but his stuff wasn’t yet. DANI: Interesting. I think a lot of people have done the: you’re basically moved in but haven’t moved in yet. CLARA: You kind of go back to do your laundry occasionally. DANI: Okay, let’s get into the interview. My first question comes from my friend Lyn: Do you find it difficult at all to play a character like Trent that comes across as dumb? BEN: No I don’t find it difficult whatsoever. I love Trent! As soon as I got the sides for the audition I was like “I know how to play Trent!” I’m a character person, I love studying characters like Kristen Wiig, Kate McKinnon, Kyle Mooney, I study these people and the fascinating things about artists who really develop three-dimensional characters, is that there’s humility to them, there’s some type of depth, and I know that Trent absolutely might seem surface-level dumb, but I like to think there’s something deep down there. And even though he’s extremely dumb, I wanted his focus to be: he loves Paxton. He loves Paxton and would do anything for him. You know, you have to find these threads to pull on when it comes to characters like this, and like I said, I love Trent. LOVE Trent! And I want to keep playing him for as long as I can! CLARA: He’s like a really playful golden-retriever. BEN: Yep. Absolutely, that’s him to a tee. CLARA: We had a friend who coined a phrase for a different character that I think is in the same vein: “pure of heart, dumb of ass.” And I think that very strongly applies to Trent! BEN: I’m a huge Chris Lilley fan, he did Summer Heights High, Angry Boys… he creates these characters who at first glance are just so not likeable, and then you get to know them and you go “okay, I see where you’re going here DANI: That’s the actor who does the Jamie one right… BEN: yeah, Ja’mie! Yeah! DANI: That one’s good! CLARA: Well, next question, which… in the script Dani insists wasn’t actually from her, but was from a lot of people, but I don’t believe her DANI: I have receipts CLARA: that doesn’t mean you didn’t tell them “ask this question!” but. Do you think Trent is secretly a genius? BEN: Ummm… that’s a good question. I’ve actually thought about this many times. I think that there is a genius to Trent. I don’t know… I don’t think he’s a book genius. But I do think he’s much smarter than we make him out to be. But I think a lot of kids in high school: they’re kind of being this person that they’ve just… the persona that they’ve developed over the years because that’s what everyone has always known them as. That’s kind of always in my head while we’re playing that Trent is always coming across as this… you know he’s Trent, just like everyone knows him but I think there is something deep down. Genius? I don’t know. But I think Trent is smarter than people think. CLARA: he’s got some intuition! DANI: I think it would be really funny if… the show Fresh off the Boat, the main character in the very last season gets this really amazing score on the SAT and gets into a really good school, I just think that would be hilarious. Everyone would be like: “what?” BEN: Trent’s in an AP class, so! DANI: I know! CLARA: You want to have like a… Britney from Glee story-arc! DANI: Oh yeah I forgot about that! CLARA: Just goes to MIT by drawing with Crayons. DANI: So another question from my friend Lyn: Was there any improv with your scenes as Trent? BEN: Yeah there was. All the directors, we worked with four different directors, they were all so great when it came to the end of scenes and we would kind of just… go! Some longer than others. But I would say my favourite improv line looking back on it that they kept in the show was… I think it was episode 7 when Ramona calls Paxton out for being Racist… that scene. And he’s like “you’ve met my Dad like 10 times” or whatever, and I said “I thought that was your neighbour” that was all improv. Those last few lines were all improv. We were actually, right before we shoot every scene we rehearse the scene in front of the entire crew so that they can figure out where to set everything up. And we were rehearsing it, and without even skipping a beat we just said those two lines at the end, and everyone was cracking up. And Darren and I looked at eachother and we were like “we’re doing that” CLARA: Dani is acting super chill on the outside, but that was her favourite line of the entire season. BEN: Oh really! DANI: The way you delivered it was just like “oh I’m so sorry bro” BEN: Yeah he’s a loveable idiot I think. DANI: Definitely. CLARA: Well that segues nicely into the next question which is: What was it like to work with everyone on this set? BEN: Everyone was just a dream to work with, you know? For a lot of us it was our first big thing. And I will be the first one to say that it was definitely the biggest thing I’ve ever done. But you know it’s a young cast. It’s a relatively young crew. There were no stars, there were no egos. I mean it—there was none of that! So we all got along so well! And I truly believe that everyone I worked with on that show came to set every day appreciative of the opportunity and brought 150% with them every single day. I mean that. I can’t remember one moment where it was just like “they’re being a diva” or whatever. But I also think that every ship is a reflection of their captain and Mindy Kaling is amazing. I only had a few interactions with her but all of them were extremely pleasant. And the other captain of our ship was Maitreyi! And she had never been in anything. The poise and the maturity. On episode 3 where I have the party. We’re waiting for a long time for them to set stuff up. It was lunch time. And Justin and Maitreyi were in a room together and were just talking and I’m just listening to her and like “how is this girl 17-years-old without having been on a set?” She was a gift from the heavens. It was really great. One of the directors I’m good friends with now, we text all the time. It was a very welcoming environment. It was exactly how it came across on the screen. CLARA: So aside from the fact that there’s now a pandemic going on and the world has changed quite significantly. Has your life changed at all since the show came out? BEN: it’s such an interesting thing because you would think that it would. I don’t know if it has maybe yet. A few weeks after the show someone was like “oh are people recognising you?” And I forgot about that I was like “no, when I do go outside I’m wearing a mask” Wear your mask people! And when I go outside I’m wearing a mask. I didn’t even think of that. I’m not even thinking about the fact that I’m walking into a crowd because I’m not. So when it comes to recognition I would say no. I have a few extra Instagram followers. But that’s not what I’m in it for. But if there’s any change that’s probably the only change. But there aren’t many things being shot or cast right now. Because everyone’s trying to figure this out. And when I auditioned I was going fairly often. So it’s not like there’s a lot of opportunities knocking at my door, it’s an interesting time. But I do think that oddly enough for this being my first big thing and a pandemic striking right as it came out, I do think there’s an element of appreciation that I could have for the project because there were no distractions of “am I going to be recognised”, all I was doing was sitting with the show and realising “it’s good. It’s so good” it really is. DANI: So bea.nhie and daxtonsangels want to know what was your favorite scene to film? BEN: My favourite scene to film… there were like all my babies! Can I give you two scenes? DANI: Yeah! BEN: Okay so the two scenes were: a scene in this episode where I have the punch and Ben walks in. So speaking of Improv, the opening shot of that there’s a bug flying around and I’m trying to swat it, and that was 100% real. There was a bug that came into frame called a fig-beetle (I’m really into insects). A fig-beetle comes into frame and they’re really imposing but they’re harmless. Right as it came into frame, that’s when the director yelled action, because they didn’t realise that here was a bug, and I was like “the show must go on” so I tried to swat it in character as Trent, and we all cracked after. And I was like “There’s no way they’re going to leave that in”. When they did it was amazing. To play with Jaren who plays Ben, just to play with him in that scene was just so much fun. The director Anu, as well as one of the producers Chris, we were having a lot of fun with all the ways that we could do the grandma bit. And since it’s a first season show, they’re gonna give you a lot of notes and it’s not because you’re doing something wrong, it’s because they want to figure out the tone, they want options. And so there were a lot of options for the grandma line, that was SO much fun! And then my other favourite scene I think was, I loved all the episode 3 stuff but when we’re presenting, it’s such a short scene, but I made a choice as Trent, I was like “I think Trent’s nervous to present” and so that’s why I came in with that nervous energy. And they also allowed me to change the line to “So that you don’t get exploded” the original line was “so you’re not exploded”, but Trent’s not that smart. And then Darren and I kept the pound after because he’s so proud of me. We created that vibe because it was so much fun to do. Those are definitely my two favourite scenes. CLARA: I really loved the first one that you mentioned, the grandma scene. The delivery there is just so perfect! [Recap clip: “Grandma juice” scene] BEN: I’m pretty sure that was the last take that we did, that was his last note. To do it completely sombre. I’m pretty sure that was our last take, that was so much fun. CLARA: “She has her good days”! So you mentioned your audition earlier, what was that like? What was your audition experience? Did you try out for any other roles or were you like “Trent that’s me” BEN: So I think I have a great interview story. So I get the sides like I said I read them and I was like “I know how to play Trent, I know how to play him. He’s a little too cool for school. Not that impressed. I know how to be him.” And so I decided I was going to go into the audition and give almost nothing. Like I was just going to be monotone like “Yeah whatever I’m high-school cool guy, like what’s up?” And I’m sitting in the waiting room, I had never been in this casting office before and the walls are paper-thin and just kid after kid after kid would walk in, and they would all do the same high-energy big POW BOOM BOOM. And I was like “Oh my god, I prepared it the wrong way…” everyone’s doing it this way, and I prepared it this way, and I was like “no, no, no. This is the purpose of auditioning, I’ve heard Bryan Cranston say it’s not to go in and get the role, it’s to go in and put forth your best version of the role.” And if they want it, they want it. And if they don’t, they don’t. And I even slated in character (that’s when you say your name and height). I never do that. But I was just like “BenjaminNorrisFiveEight” and he even giggled a little, and I was like “I think I’m doing the right thing here.” And we start doing the first scene and the casting director breaks and laughs and he’s like “I’m sorry, let’s start over” and I was like “FFFFFFF I think I did it! I think I did it!” and yeah I felt so good about it, I felt so good. Which I’ve felt good about many auditions that I haven’t gotten so I let that sink in for the day and I was like “alright. Let it go. Because you just don’t know.” And the next day I got the call that I was pinned, which means you might have it. And then it was two long weeks until I got the call being like: it’s official, the offer came in. And it was so nerve-wracking. Not the audition itself because like I said I knew how to play him. But the following two weeks waiting for the official… it was a long two weeks. But I feel very cery lucky to have gotten this role. CLARA: So I have to ask something that we have speculated about a lot that is not in the questions that I have here. Do you think Trent is a stoner? BEN: Okay, so! The way it was originally… the way the character description was originally written was that he’s kinda frat-boy type jock. So in my audition I wasn’t playing up that stoner, I wanted to go that Johnny Cool-guy. But the way I am as a performer and the way my hair looks is a lot of the times I will… that is kind of my groove. That is my comfort zone and that is my vibe. So Trent was actually only in 3 or 4 episodes and then eventually they wrote him into 8 episodes which was amazing, and I think as they wrote him more they started leaning into what I can do, and stoner is what I can do. So that’s a long way of answering your question, but I think it’s safe to say that Trent is a bit stoner-y. And actually one of the directors, one of the notes he would give me is he would come over and be like: “this time let’s do it a little more uh… a little more baked”. I can do that, I can do that. DANI: That’s great! BEN: Yeah, I think Trent’s a stoner. I think Trent’s the school weed-dealer, you know? CLARA: alright so the follow-up that is written here is: If you could play any other character regardless of race or gender, who would it be? BEN: ooh, that’s a really good question! Uh… that’s a really good question. Who would it be? I think it would be Nalini. Devi’s mom. I love Poorna, she’s so sweet and so talented. And that role, it’s funny and whatnot, but that is a demanding role and she crushes it. And like I said I’m a big character person and that’s not your run-of-the-mill role right there. You have to dig for that one. And I think she really goes places. And she’s so funny… but also… the moment in this episode where they’re getting the clock together and then Devi walks out and it rings… and it’s like… it’s so nuanced, you know? Yeah I would say Devi’s mom. I would love to play that role. I would also love to play female roles if I ever can, I love that. DANI: Yeah Devi’s mom is great. BEN: She’s great, she’s awesome. DANI: So the next question is from Devisfeed. She’s curious about what you would like for Trent in season 2. BEN: Of course I’ve had a lot of time to think about this. So like I said, one of my favourite scenes to do was the presentation scene and it was really fun to push his boundaries and get Trent out of his comfort zone. So I do want to see more of that. Throwing an example out: I do think it would be cool to see Trent try out for a play. CLARA: Or like do a poetry workshop! BEN: yeah, right? Right?! Like I said when we finished that scene and he gets his line out, he pounds Paxton. I think there’s a sense of pride in him like: “I can do that, what was I afraid of this whole time?” you know? And I listened to your last episode and I heard you all talking about Trent and Ramona… am I saying her character… DANI: you’re saying her actress’ name! Eleanor BEN: I’m sorry! Yeah. CLARA: You heard us talking about Treleanor! BEN: Yeah, I’m sorry! I obviously will do that because it’s just natural, I think of her as Ramona. But my girlfriend and I have actually said that, after we finished the show we were like “I think Trent and Eleanor could absolutely…” and I was like, oh, if Trent tries out for the play, and there’s Eleanor, and kind of wing-mans it for Paxton. I think that could be a lot of fun. But I digress We’ll see. DANI: That’s so funny! CLARA: But you don’t digress! DANI: My follow-up was actually about that, whether you were aware of all the Trent-ships. There’s actually more, there’s Trent and Shira which is really interesting. And I’ve seen Trent and Devi. Which I can’t see, but some people see it. And then of course there’s Trent and Paxton because, you know. BEN: listen, when I was preparing for this role I was like “I need to be prepared for everything and I’m going to make sure I love Paxton. Trent I wanted to love him so much that it’s almost ambiguous. At the end of one of the scenes we started improving a bit and Trent just looked at him serious and was like “I would do anything for you” and for the rest of the shoot one of the camera guys would just come up to me and be like “I would do anything for you”. I think Trent really loves Paxton. In more than one way? I don’t know. But Trent definitely loves Paxton. But as far as the Trent and Devi thing goes, I don’t see that happening, but I do see Trent and Devi being good friends though. CLARA: Yes. BroTP. BEN: Absolutely. I kinda always thought that, so yeah. DANI: Yeah I kinda just want to see everyone become closer regardless of romantic entanglements. BEN: Yeah I want Trent and Ben to be better friends strictly for selfish reasons because I love Jaren Lewison so much. And I want to just be around him more often. And Darren’s my buddy. At the end of the day Darren and I had a major Bromance on set. And it was what dreams are made of. Truly. CLARA: Alright. What song would you consider to be your high school anthem? BEN: Oh man. I’m sorry to bend the rules again, can I give two again? CLARA: Who said there are rules? BEN: I was kind of a floater, I was friends with a lot of different groups of people because I was just active a lot in high school. I would say on one side of it is “This Love”. I’m a huge Bob Marley fan so that was my mantra. I wanted to find love throughout high school. And there’s also a reggaeton song called “Motevejo”. And I was a soccer player growing up. And that was in our locker-room. It was a mostly Hispanic highschool I went to. Very Hispanic high school. And in the locker room it was all Reggaeton being played and that was the jam. So I think those were my two songs. DANI: Very different choices between what we’ve had people on say. CLARA: Yeah, before you got here Dani, Ben was talking about how much he loves Reggae. BEN: Yeah that’s my top. I like everything but that’s my top. DANI: You’d get along very well with my cousin. BEN: Yeah? DANI: Yeah. BEN: Sounds like a great person. If they like Reggae, absolutely. DANI: Reggae and EDM. He’s a DJ. BEN: I was very big into EDM for a while. I fell out of it but those were some really fun years. DANI: So next question. My friend Aileen wants to know how you got into acting and comedy? BEN: So I always say that I was acting before I knew I wanted to act. So growing up I was a very small under-developed short kid. So a lot of times as a mechanism what you do is you overcompensate with a big personality and whatnot. You like Attention. And so I was constantly performing in some way or another whether it was trying to make my friends laugh or putting on shows for my family. And then in 8th grade my mom was finally like: you’re going to try out for the school musical. And I was like “I am not going to do that” and she went “no we’re getting in the car right now and we’re going, and you’re going to try out for the play.” I couldn’t really sing so I didn’t get the lead. But I got this role, the side funny character. And that has really paved the way because that is my goal. Play side-funny characters. I don’t really set out to be the leading man. I want to be that other guy. And so that was my first experience, actually being in something and acting. And then beyond that I would always make my own videos and put myself in things. Studied film in college, didn’t study theatre. But I would just always be acting. And as far as comedy goes, like I said, I think Humour is a great universal language, it’s also a great way to disarm people. I always wanted to make people laugh. I still do. So that was always kind of natural. When It was time to make my own shorts and take classes, it was only comedy that I wanted to do. Make funny videos. When I moved to LA I took Groundlings classes to take imrpov. Comedy is my top priority. DANI: Do you see yourself doing stand-up? BEN: So I’ve only done stand-up once. It terrifies me! I mean I will get up on stage I’ll do anything. But I think the reason it terrifies me is because Comedy is the most important medium to me. The thought of being up on stage alone and not making people laugh is terrifying. I love Improv. Being up on stage with a group of people and not making people laugh is a bit more digestible for me. I don’t know if I’ll ever be a stand-up comic. I don’t know if I have that in me. I have the utmost respect for stand-ups. My manager who is also one of my best friends, he’s a comedy guy. He reps comics, he reps stand-ups. I am one of his only clients who doesn’t do stand-up. But I don’t know, also to be a stand-up, if anyone out there is listening and wants to be a stand-up comic, you have to work very very hard. When you’re not in a pandemic you have to go up every night to a new open mic and you have to work the muscle. And I do have that work-ethic but that’s not what I want to put that work-ethic towards. I’m much more sketch driven. CLARA: And right now, I have a former-student who is a stand-up comic. They have zoom shows constantly. But you can’t hear the audience. BEN: That’s tough! CARA: I can’t imagine! BEN: You have to feed off the energy. That’s really tough. CLARA: So different tack: What was high school like for you in comparison to what is shown in the show? BEN: I think there is some of myself in Trent. But I was very different in high school. Like I said I was a bit of a floater, I had my group of friends who were definitely the jock type, however I did the musicals, I did soccer, I was in symphonic orchestra all four years. I was one of the editors of the school newspaper. I was very, very involved in high school. I loved my high school experience. My Mom’s side of the family, everyone went to the highschool I went to. My Mom, My grandma, all the cousins. So we’re almost royalty in my hometime, not really. CLARA: Was this in New York? EBN: Yeah this was in New York. I’m from White Plains, New York which is a suburb. A suburb of the city. And so many teachers knew who I was coming into the school. So my mom worked in the school, my uncle did, my aunt, my cousin, so I definitely had a very unique highschool experience. Highschool for me, I was one of those kids who always had something to do afterwards. And even after it was done I didn’t want to leave the grounds and go home. I just enjoyed my time. But there was also, I experienced the same thing everyone else did. I was one of the small ones, so I was definitely a little bullied within my friends group. So I still went through all of that, so it wasn’t a breeze by any means. I didn’t do THAT well academically. I think it was a great experience, it was also a learning experience and even though I loved it I never want to do it again. DANI: I don’t think anyone wants to go to high school. BEN: No, I really don’t! But I appreciate my time. CLARA: One of my dad’s best friends, he was in gaol for a year for civil disobedience stuff. And he said “If I have to choose between doing 1 year of highschool or 4 years in gaol, I would choose 4 years in gaol” DANI: OOOF! BEN: That’s a hot-take, but honesty he knows better than we, so. DANI: Alright, so the next question is: What is your Hogwarts house and what do you think Trent’s would be? BEN: So I’m a little late to the Harry Potter game. I never read them growing up, that was my Dad’s thing actually, not mine! But my girlfriend has sat me down and had me watch all the movies. Love them all. And I am a Hufflepuff. And I am pretty sure Trent is also a Hufflepuff as well. I don’t know the houses that well, but… do you both think maybe Trent is something else? CLARA: I think he’s a Gryffindor. DANI: I floated between Gryffindor and Hufflepuff. It’s definitely one of the two. He’s very loyal. BEN: Maybe he is Gryffindor, I don’t know. Okay! CLARA: He is very loyal. He absolutely is. BEN: I will tell you that much, he is loyal. CLARA: We actually talked about this a little bit, was this the last episode or the one before we were talking about it? DANI: I think the last episode. CLARA: Right. I think part of it, I disagree with which house is the stoner house. I think because of the Weasley twins, it’s Gryffindor. She thinks, because it’s near the kitchens, it’s Hufflepuff. DANI: Yeah, Hufflepuff is literally right next to the kitchen. There’s jokes about it in the books. BEN: Then I feel like Trent would want to be in that house. I mean I lived with two guys when I moved out here for about 8 years. We lived together the whole time. DANI: Oh wow. BEN: And they were both very into Harry Potter. They both would be like: I know you don’t know anything, but you’re definitely a Hufflepuff. So I know why they say that, and… I just don’t know the nuances of the houses. I don’t know the intricacies of them, you know? But I will take your word, whatever you think Trent is, I will go with. CLARA: Yeah I think if you think Hufflepuff then I will cede the point to Dani, and say that Gryffindor is the secondary house. BEN: Well, I mean loyalty. You hit the nail on the head with that. CLARA: Yeah. DANI: Your boy Jaren is also a Hufflepuff! BEN: I read his thing DANI: His tweets? They were so funny! I was like oh my gosh! BEN: He is a cute human being. I will tell you that. He’s unbelievable. DANI: I love seeing people’s reactions to Harry Potter way after everyone else has had opinions for so many years. I just wanted to be like “you’re so wrong but it’s okay” CLARA: Alright, last question before we do the episode deep-dive: do you know your astrological chart, and if you do: what is it? BEN: I don’t. I know my sign. I’m a saggitarius. CLARA: Okay. That’s your a sun-sign. BEN: I don’t know what my… is there a moon sign? DANI: Yeah, Moon, and Rising. They’re the biggest. But there’s a lot of others. BEN: Do I tell you my birthday and you tell me my—or are we not going down— DANI: We could. CLARA: We could do that. Give me one second to pull up the thing. Actually you probably have a better one that you know Dani. DANI: I probably do, we’ll see. CLARA: We’re going to need the time of day too, just so you know. BEN: Okay. I think I know it. CLARA: And Dani can also tell you a bit about what it means. BEN: Okay, let’s do it. CLARA: Were you born in white Plains? BEN: I was born in White Plains. CLARA: Okay. DANI: Your rising sign is a Capricorn. CLARA: Dani’s a Capricorn, so that’s fine. BEN: Got it, okay. DANI: And your moon is in Cancer, which is actually what I put Trent’s Moon as! BEN: Ahhhh! CLARA: Yeah! BEN: Okay! Okay Trent and Ben! CLARA: I feel like this is a very Hufflepuff chart. Just to put it out there. BEN: You can still be loyal and be a Hufflepuff, right? CLARA: Oh Yeah! Loyal is Hufflepuff. DANI: Oh Loyal is the Hufflepuff one, yeah! TRENT: Whoa! Oh got it, okay. CLARA: It’s the defining trait, yeah. DANI: There’s a lot more there, there’s so many different signs. And I could send it to you and explain it to you a little bit, but those are the most important ones, the Moon and the Rising. BEN: Got it, okay. CLARA: So what’s your three-sentence explanation of that combo? DANI: Well Capricorn and Sagittarius, I feel like a lot of the time do get put together. They are right next to each other in the Zodiac wheel. Capricorn is generally a bit more rigorous and goal-oriented, grounded. CLARA: It’s an earth sign. DANI: It’s an earth sign whereas Saggitarius is a fire sign. But cares a lot about travel and philosophy. Not necessarily about education in general, but knowing a lot about things. BEN: I identify with that. DANI: Yeah, so they go hand-in-hand. So your moon sign is generally more about your emotions, whereas your sun-sign is your basic personality. Basically what it says here is if you have your rising in Capricorn, people of Capricorn-ascendant must first become aware of their two opposing sides. One is obedience and performing their duties properly. They need to manage energy well, and this requires discipline and self-control. So it’s kind of saying you have a lot of control over your emotions. You’re generally not a super emotional person. CLARA: But the Cancer in moon, there’s a deep well of emotions there. They might not be on the surface. DANI: Yeah, the moon is cancer though, so that was actually rising. And Rising is more: if people look at you at face-value, what are they think you might be. But the Moon is more emotions and instincts. Cancers are more family oriented, they’re home-bodies for the most part. CLARA: They care pretty deeply about relationships. DANI: They’re about being the protector for the people they love. And Roots. BEN: That is 100% me. Sometimes to my demise. DANI: Like to a fault. BEN: Sometimes I have to stick-up for people even when I don’t think it through and maybe they did something wrong. So that’s definitely me. DANI: That’s awesome. I always love seeing people’s charts. And it just makes so much sense for people sometimes when they hear all that. I know Astrology at face-value to most people seems like a sham, especially because a lot of people don’t relate to their sun-sign because it’s your basic personality. There’s so many factors that you’ll probably not relate to. That’s when you open it up to the other stuff and it’s like “okay, well these layers make more sense.” CLARA: Shall we get into the episode? DANI: Yeah, let’s do it! BEN: Let’s do it. CLARA: So there’s a lot going on in this episode so I think I’m going to break it up by main events for characters. First let’s talk about the falling out between Devi and her friends. It was pretty much inevitable after the last episode’s events. Devi chooses herself again. I was really proud of Fabiola for calling her out about it via text, and I was really proud of her for popping off, because it really seems like she’s been holding a lot in. Usually it’s Eleanor that seems to be the one that pops off, and she even attempts to get Fabiola to drop it, but she doesn’t. It seems like she’s been thinking of this for a while. The stress of all these new things in her life, and Devi as an added negativity was too much. While I don’t agree with the whole idea of a legit friend break, I do understand space… they are very different things. What did you think about Fabiola standing up to Devi like that? CLARA: Yeah, I think it’s great. I think somebody needed to hold her accountable. And it’s not like they haven’t kind of warned her. Two episodes ago, was that the one where they had the slumber party? And before that… anyway. So yeah they’ve had a confrontation with her already about how she needs to step it up as a friend. And that wasn’t even the first time, this whole year they have been there for her. Which she absolutely needs but she hasn’t been giving back. So I think it was time that somebody held her accountable and said “look you can do whatever you want, but there are consequences. If you hurt people, they’re not going to want to spend that much time with you.” And especially if you do it repeatedly. It’s not like there isn’t real stuff going on in her life, there absolutely is, but she’s using it as an excuse. Ben did you have anything you want to add? BEN: Yeah, you both unpacked it extremely well. But the type of person I am, I have to know why people do the things they do. And it’s true. Devi, this whole season, makes a series of not-the-best choices. But I think that’s what’s so great about the show, it’s a high school show. And a lot of kids in high school, they do make a lot of choices where their heart gets in the way of their brain. Especially when you’re in high school you think it’s the world. You think that’s it. You don’t realise there’s other things past high school. So to her, Paxton and the hot-pockets, they are the centre of the universe. And if she can get closer to that she might feel a little bit better about herself. And she kind of loses sight of the fact that the most important thing to her is her two best friends who love her so much. So I like that the show let her make those mistakes. And it shows true friendship, because Eleanor and Fabiola do love Devi which is why they call her on her shit. CLARA: Yeah, it feels like a tough-love moment. BEN: Your best friends should always be calling you out on the mistakes that you might make. And that’s what’s beautiful about their friendship. DANI: Yeah, I think it’s evolving now. Now it has room to become more equally-sided now. CLARA: There was something I was reading recently. I read The Big Friendship, the book by the call your girlfriend hosts. It might have been that. They were talking about how in a lot of friendships, people get caught in these patterns of: you’ve known somebody forever and you have this expectation of who they are. Whatever they do, you fit that into what your expectations are, if you’ve known them for a long time. I feel like having that conversation creates space for all of them to grow and enter a new phase in their friendship. DANI: And then of course after that Fabiola comes out in front of everyone. Honestly I love the reaction shots of some of the kids after she comes out. And then Jonah comes out as well. Ben and Paxton seem like they feel bad for Fabiola, especially when she calls Devi out for choosing Paxton. His face is really guilty because he knows why. Trent seems shocked in the back, and Jonah on the other hand, when he came out, everyone’s faces were just not surprised. BEN: “yeah we know dude” DANI: What made me laugh is Ben and Paxton have this really identical facial reaction. I went back and watched it a couple times. They both wrinkle their faces like “huh”. But it wasn’t an “I didn’t know” kind of huh, it was this weird considering-Huh. But Ben obviously he already knew, because he said in the pilot that Jonah was gay. But Of course it just made me think of Bexton. CLARA: That’s… Ben and Paxton. For the uninitiated. DANI: Ben, for scenes like this, do they tell you to make specific faces for reactions, or do you have a bit of freedom with that? BEN: I’m trying to look back on that exact scene. You know I don’t really remember them giving us specific reactions to make. I think maybe when Fabiola comes out, the Assistant Director might have given us a note about “everyone react to that”, but it’s kinda funny, I don’t remember them giving us a note about when Jonah says it. And I think it’s because it’s unwritten, everyone knows already. I do think for that scene, everyone who was outside looking in, I think we had pretty free-reign of how we were going to react. Also I think the important thing when you’re directing is still let the actors make the choices in their character, and if they’re not the right choices, reel them in. And so I do think everyone did a great job of reacting in their character. How he or she would take that in. I don’t remember specific notes. That was a hectic scene to shot regardless because of the spill and fall. It was a logistical nightmare of a scene. DANI: How many times did Maitreyi have to fall into the pool. BEN: That was a stunt double, and that was a one-take wonder. DANI: Oh wow! BEN: Yeah! CLARA: Okay, what I want to know is how many times does she have to throw punch on that white suit, and it had to get changed? BEN: Okay I’m actually not sure about that, because … the cameras facing this way so we weren’t there for that. I’m not sure how many times. All I know is Lee, who plays Fabiola, came out to where we were all sitting when she was done with that, and I’m pretty sure she was very cold. I’m pretty sure she was freezing. But also Lee is the best. It wasn’t like “this sucks” it was like “I hope I did a good job”, you know? DANI: I think I heard them saying they did it quite a few times, because Maitreyi and her could not stop laughing, they couldn’t get it together. BEN: That sounds about right. They had this really cool contraption that shot the punch, and it was cool to see it. Yeah, the whole episode, because of the party, there was a lot of problem-solving for the crew. DANI: Fabiola then has a lovely conversation with Eve that seems long overdue. I like that one of the first things Fab does is apologize about how she treated Eve, and Eve was very understanding. That instant understanding of how hard it can be to come out, and be okay in your own skin. It was a pretty short scene, and Eve is honestly barely in the show, but the audience loves her so much. It’s really nice how much of an impact she has on the story, and how real she feels even though she isn’t in the season that much. I really hope to see more of her in the future. I also love how Eleanor is just creepin in the back during their conversation. I feel like most friends would do that! What do you think of their conversation Clara? CLARA: I agree with everything you just said and I think the one thing I would add, when we were talking about reactions before, I was a little surprised that Eve was surprised that Fab came out. I think maybe that’s because Fab was making such a fuss about “no this isn’t me, it’s not me, I’m not interested!” But it’s nice to see she cared about it because you know they needed to get together. So she had this little flame that she was holding in a tiny part of her heart. And suddenly a whole bunch of oxygen got poured on it! BEN: That was such a great scene. Lee and Christina who plays Eve are so wonderful together. They’re so great together. For someone who got the scripts and would read them, but I was never there for any of their scenes together. I don’t know what it’s going to look like til after. My girlfriend and I were over the moon about their scenes together. We were like “This is something special” and the audience is going to want to see more of this. I do want to add even though Eve isn’t in this scene, I do want to add maybe my favourite scene of the entire show is maybe the last scene of episode 3, when she has Gears Brosnan say “I’m Gay”. I don’t cry a lot watching things, but I think I had a tear. Along with that song, they found a song that was so beautiful. I was like “that’s amazing”, so Fabiola’s journey in this show is really cool and you gotta have stories like this in a show in 2020. This is what’s happening more often than not. And it’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful scene, it’s a beautiful storyline. DANI: It’s one of my favourites for sure. Okay, let’s talk about Kamala and Steve now. I like Steve for the most part. Most of the fandom prefers Prashant. Prashant seems awesome, but we only meet him in the next episode. So I’ll save that discussion for episode 9, but I do think Kamala and Steve have a cute thing, but I do think ultimately they are not right for one another. I don’t think he challenges her intellectually or would ever really understand the family dynamic she has. Kamala, I love. I wish she was in the show a lot more. She’s got this like meekness to her that I really enjoy. She’s a very balanced character, and she also stands up to Devi a few times. She calls Devi out for being rude in this episode but she definitely easily caves to Devi’s blackmail. I also loved to see the detail of Kamala fixing the clock. What do you think of Kamala and Steve in this episode, Clara? CLARA: I think we’ve talked about them once before and I always find it difficult to talk about Steve. Abstracting away what happens in the next episode. But I will say that all the stuff that happens in the next episode, I feel like you get the seed of it in this episode when Devi’s asking these questions and he doesn’t let Kamala answer the way she wants to answer. My objection to Steve is not that he’s not cute or that they don’t necessarily have something together, I feel like he’s trying to make her choices for her based on what he wants, and I don’t like that. I’m with the contingent that prefers Prashant. Obviously there is a family choice in there to an extent. I don’t know. We’ll get to their next episode, but they do seem to connect. And I don’t like that Steve tries to make Kamala’s choices for her. BEN: Steve is hilarious. I didn’t have any scenes with him, I didn’t even know him. And he killed me the whole time. I think what’s so cool about that storyline, Kamala is a grad-student, she’s not a kid, but here she is in this season having this very innocent fling that a lot of kids experience when they’re younger. And if she was back in India, she probably wouldn’t have been able to experience something exciting and fun and also confusing. I think all of those experiences are really important to us when we’re growing up. You learn about yourself, you learn about the dynamics of a relationship. I don’t know if that is going to last. She’s watching Riverdale. She never had these experiences before living here you know? It’s so cool and kind of innocent, you know? DANI: I feel like it’s kind of necessary. BEN: It’s necessary, absolutely. CLARA: I really like that analogy to a high school relationship. It articulates well the thing that ties Devi and Kamala together. They are both exploring relationships and sexuality for the first time. It’s just that their general orientations are different. BEN: Exactly. I think that Kamala can learn from Devi just as much as Devi can learn from Kamala. Those are my favourite kind of stories in film and TV, when two people who are completely different ages can learn from eachother, because they both have things to offer that the other one might not have gotten. I think it’s such a cool relationship. And for it to come together at the end here and for Devi to be like “oh, you’re not that GOOD!” DANI: “You’re not who I thought you were!” CLARA: Kamala being her mom in the Uber. When she drops her off. DANI: She’s definitely like a mom. The Mom friend. ADVERT: Welcome to Slayerfestx98! I’m your host Ian Carlos Crawford. Slayerfestx98 is a Latinx-run queer-centred pop-culture Podcast. We discuss every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in order, but we also talk X-men, MCU, and everything else nerdy and/or gay. And sometimes I’m joined by… “Hi, I’m James Marsters”; “Trixie Matell!”; “Anthony Oliveira, hello!”; “Ming-Na Wen”; “Emily Nussbaum”; “Summer Bishil”; “Charisma Carpenter!”; “Kirsten White”; “Hi, Amber Benson!”; “LaToya Ferguson”; “It’s Clare Kramer!”; “Adam Seth”; “Jane Espenson, Hi!”; “Hi this is Stacey Abrams” We can be found on Spotify, GooglePlay, Podbean, Apple Podcasts and anywhere else podcasts are found. You can support us on Patreon. You can get access to our private facebook group, Patron-exclusive episodes and more. We can be found on all social platforms @Slayerfestx98. Make sure to say hi! Any and all support is much appreciated. Thanks! DANI: Let’s talk about Devi and Paxton… Daxton as the kids call it. There is a lot that goes on between them in this episode, so I’m probably going to ramble for a bit. I really like their moment on the steps outside his house before she takes off to try and make up with her friends. How she thanks him for not like telling everyone they didn’t hook up. And I liked how he said “I don’t fake kiss and tell.” when so many douchey guys would have been like “well I mean… people think we slept together.. Hahah im so cool.” Also it’s so obvious he’s thinking about making them more than friends when she asks if they can be friends. Then of course Ben gets jealous of their “friendship” and decides he’s going to throw a party after all, only for Devi to ask if Paxton can come. The “Can I invite Trent” part just cracks me up. And just Trent’s little face hanging in the back with a smirk… It really does remind me of the “this is my boyfriend, and my boyfriend’s boyfriend” scene from parks and rec that I made a meme out of. BEN: I was very honoured because I love that scene in Parks and Rec, so I was like “wow that’s a huge honour”. DANI: It really fits the dynamic! Besides actualy being gay, it was just really funny. But Devi and Paxton don’t interact at all again until after she falls into the pool, which I’m wondering where Paxton was at during the entire party? CLARA: Drinking red-bulls! DANI: His friends came early to help set up… so where was Paxton? Of course though, Paxton plays hero and takes Devi home and gives her a change of clothes. He’s really sweet with her. I love Paxton in this scene. Like I feel like he’s really good at like cutting the tension and making a joke out of it here, but not insensitive. He definitely cares about her. With the driving scene, I love the cinematography of the Daxton driving scene and the song choice. Ahh just the little tensions of being a teenager that’s really into someone. She’s looking at him, and like melting, and looking at his hand and thinking of holding it. Looking away and smiling when he looks at her, and then he also smiles… it just is a really lovely and beautifully shot scene. I really feel like it captures that feeling of being a teenager so well. You can tell just how much Paxton genuinely cares for her at this point, and how much he’s let down his walls since the hospital scene. She is so used to having kind of pointless small talk with Paxton, that when he genuinely asks her if she’s okay, she answers about getting pool water out of her ear, and he is like “no with your friends.” She opens up and is so vulnerable with him… This is when I was like: shit is Benvi not going to happen? Then when she says: “I feel like everyone in my life is just done with me.” The awkward pause makes her feel like oh shit I messed up and then he kisses her. It was a very short and sweet kiss… Which of course makes her just like mess up her words and blush and smile a bunch… And it was very sweet. It’s such a trope to shut someone up with a kiss though. Ben, what do you think of Daxton? Where do your allegiances lie? Are you team Paxton because of the hot pocket or team Ben because you share a name? BEN: Trent is team Paxton, you know? I think Devi would work wonders on the hot pocket. You know I think Devi would make everyone in the hot-pocket a better person. And like I said, Trent loves Paxton so Trent definitely has an allegiance to him. But I think with a lot of young-adult shows now, they are trying to steer away from the stereotypes and tropes and whatnot. So I do love that Paxton is almost pining for her at the end, almost. It’s almost to that level and I like seeing that. And I just think it would be cool to have in mainstream po culture, two different social groups, the tables are turned. I’m all for team… sorry what is it? DANI: Daxton. BEN: Yeah I’m all for team Daxton! But if you’re asking Ben… I love them both! Is the diplomatic answer. I love them both. That scene, you perfectly described that scene. It really is beautiful, and it captures that high school daydreaming all the time, you know. DANI: that internal anxiety of wanting to hold someone’s hand when it’s within reach. CLARA: Everything is an emotion in high school! BEN: That is… the entire time you’re in high school, all you’re doing is wanting to hold hands with someone who is next to you. CLARA: The Beatles knew. DANI: The Beatles knew! CLARA: I really like this too, and one thing I want to mention that I don’t think you brought up, I think a lot of the moments where Paxton is able to open up and become more vulnerable also centre around him seeing Devi interact with his sister. I hope that we learn more about his dynamic with his sister and how his family life is in general because I don’t think we’ve met his parents, right? DANI: no. CLARA: In season two. But there’s something to me that I find really heart-warming about the fact he starts to really pine for her, as you were saying Ben. In these moments where he has let her see his family and a part of him and a way that he is that nobody else gets to see. Except probably Trent. DANI: I want to see a lot more of his relationships in general. For being a top-billed character, Paxton really isn’t in this show as much as you would think that he would be. But I think it’s also, since it is from Devi’s view, you get to know more about Paxton as she gets to know more about Paxton. BEN: I agree, I think there has to be a level of mystery to him, because he is a mysterious character. He’s almost a walking anomaly sometimes. That’s what so cool about him. I hope to dive into his personal life a bit more as well. DANI: I forgot to ask this earlier, but if you could have anyone voice for your own episode, who would it be? BEN: It would be Seth Rogen. However I did want to as an exercise write my own episode about Trent and I would have Trent narrate his own episode. CLARA: Yes! Okay, so that’s what I was actually going to say! I feel like there’s something really funny about him being the only person whose inner-monologue is not some grandiose person but is just himself. I feel like it’s part of the pure-of-heart, dumb-of-ass thing that he’s not quite deep enough to have an imaginary narrator. DANI: It would be really funny if he had his own episode because you know he would probably get side-tracked and start talking about something completely different and just start going back and forth and the story doesn’t make any cohesive sense. CLARA: What I would love to see is to see him arguing with his narrator as himself. BEN: That would be awesome. That would break the fourth wall for sure. I actually, when I say I wanted to write, I actually may have already written a lot of it, and let’s just say that aliens are mentioned in it. BEN: It was really just an exercise, because I’m a writer as well, I like to work on things just to exercise the muscle. I was like “let’s have fun with this and see where it goes.” CLARA: How much do we have to beg you to get a copy of this? BEN: If and when I finish it, I have no problem sending it to you. CLARA: Okay! DANI: I feel like Aliens Exist by Blink-182 would be playing at that moment. BEN: That’s pretty good! DANI: I think Blink-182 is basically Trent in a nutshell. So it’s time for our Bevidence of the episode and just generally talking about Ben Gross. CLARA: She can’t get through an episode without doing it. BEN: I love it. DANI: No! I didn’t talk about Ben in the last episode. Except for when it was necessary. CLARA: See that’s it! ‘Except for ALL THE TIME when necessary’. DANI: If it was organic! I don’t even think he’s in that episode… Anyways it’s his 16th birthday in the episode. First of all, his cake is fucking terrifying… It looks like the actor John Michael Higgins (aka the male announcer in the Pitch Perfect movies among many other things). CLARA: It does! DANI: He’s hilarious and I vote he should play Ben’s weird uncle at some point in the show. Poor Ben… I feel like this is the episode that makes it obvious that his parents do love and care about him, his dad calls him sweetie here, but that he just isn’t a priority… they don’t even hesitate the second he says no you don’t have to stay. Like they already had their bags all packed and ready to go at the door. Clara what do you think about his parents in this episode? CLARA: I feel like this has been where we’ve been going for a while. Ben definitely falls into the poor little rich boy trope, right? He has wealthy parents who… you say they care about him, that he’s not their priority—I feel like they care too much about themselves to fully care about him. That cake though—I feel like that cake intentionally didn’t look like him to be representative of the fact that his parents are so uninvolved in his life that they get him a cake that looks nothing like him. DANI: Well yeah, she makes this comment like: “Oh I don’t really know what you’re into these days”. CLARA: Oh yeah, ugh. So yeah his parents are very self-involved and I wish they would give him ore love because Ben deserves more love. And also then maybe… he would be less of a douche to people. DANI: maybe! So then, Ben— CLARA: I knew there was more Ben coming! DANI: Of course! There’s so much more Ben in the episode. Ben, the next scene that we see is basically that whole thing between him and Devi and he’s kinda negging her saying “oh I don’t see anything below a 10” or whatever. Then he immediately drops this act, and is worried about Devi and asks her what’s wrong. They don’t get very far because then the clip that we played happens, in which Mr. Shapiro never fails to make me laugh. I love what Mr. Shapiro says about birthdays, because it honestly isn’t a happy thing for everyone. I know it’s played for laughs but I think it’s a good line. BEN: an incredible line. We were dying when he was saying that line. DANI: Devi sure loves to playfully hit Ben. Ben is super obvious. He decides to have a party anyways because he hears Paxton compliment her. We don’t see Ben again until the party. I like the scene where Devi looks at what’s going on at the party and Shira and Zoe are drunk off one white claw and dancing while sitting on the couch, Trent is destroying the cake, Eric throws up in the sink, and Devi sees it, and he’s like “sup.” to her with his head lol. When Devi sees Ben for the first time at the party, she has the most GENUINE smile on her face when Ben is like “David, you came!”. It’s very much different than the smile she had when Ben arrived at Trent’s party in Ep. 3. She is genuinely happy to see him this time. I thought it was so sad that she was the only one who brought him anything, and how no one realized it was his birthday. Oh just the cringe here… goes in twice for a kiss… like oh man how awkward he mistakes the “it’s cool” for nah let’s kiss… bro… “Don’t you have a girlfriend.” I was like: is that Devi’s biggest concern here? Would she have welcomed it if he wasn’t with Shira? Ben blames it all on being drunk, let’s be real… he’s not drunk. Then of course it’s all downhill from here. He doesn’t do much during the Devi/Fabiola face off. He visibly rolls his eyes when Fabiola talks about Paxton. Devi falls in the pool and then Shira is all over Ben… Paxton immediately runs over to her to help, Ben was thinking about it, but sees Paxton. CLARA: you said the same thing in the wolf scene. The Coyote scene. DANI: Watch it, and then you would know! DANI: I’ve watched these episodes so many times, that just the tiniest things, I’m like: I see that! CLARA: She sees and overinterprets that. BEN: I love it. I love it! DANI: Ben hesitates to leave the scene, but Shira goes off with him. A lot of Bevi shippers thought that Ben broke up with Shira that night off screen after his attempts to kiss Devi. Her picture is missing from his locker in episode 10 when Devi asks him if she can move in. There’s a lot here for such a short amount that they interact. What do you guys think about Bevi in this episode? CLARA: Ben I’m going to let you take this one because I have talked about Bevi a lot. BEN: sure, yeah! First of all, the picture thing. That’s a really good catch there! That’s a really good easter egg! I didn’t even realise that. It’s interesting because I feel like it seems as though ben as a character is really emotionally deprived. No one stimulates him emotionally. Not at home and not in his relationship. And Devi is extremely emotional and I feel like that’s one of the reasons why they’re interested in eachother. Even though Trent is team-Paxton. There are sweet moments here. I love when she enters and she’s bringing him something and he’s so excited to see her. I like that you brought up: would it make a difference if he didn’t have a girlfriend (when she said that). To me when I heard that line “don’t you have a girlfriend?”. To me, that feels like when you’re in a nervous situation and you don’t know if you actually want something or not and you’re just going to default by making an excuse. It’s the right excuse because you shouldn’t be making out with someone who has a significant other but I think that was the easiest thing to grab onto and throw out there that she was like “wait hold on, you have a girlfriend” and if she could say more it would probably be “you’re my archnemesis, we’re supposed to hate eachother!” Which goes back to what I was saying about high schools. Everyone at a certain point, you start playing the part that you’ve been moulded into. And I think this is an episode where you start testing the structures that everyone has been packed into. But the look on ben’s face when every time he’s looking at Devi… the wheels are turning there. It’s adorable. DANI: It is. Jaren’s very good at pining. BEN: yes he is, yes he is! And I think also because of his home life, because his parents are obsessed with material and status, it makes sense that he’s been with Shira, she’s a walking example of the values that he’s been surrounded by. There’s a lot to unpack in this episode. I didn’t even realised how much until you said all that. Holy shit, there’s… DANI: There’s so much! I’m going to save all the other stuff about Devi and her trauma and how she deals with it for our final topic. So there’s just a few more small things that are worth discussing in the episode. Of course there’s Trent, who is played by our guest here. It’s really interesting because Marcus breaks in the middle of their grandma juice jokes to genuinely ask Trent how his grandma is doing and everything gets serious for a minute. I really love that detail for some reason. I think it’s sweet how close they are and how much Trent seems to care about his friends and vice versa. What do you think of the small character details like that, Ben? Who is Trent to you? BEN: Great question, I think small character details are what makes up characters. I have this thing “enjoy the little things in life” and in my opinion, the majority of our lives are little things so you have to hold onto those. So a small detail like that, Trent’s grandma, Trent is obviously a loyal person, he likes to have fun. He probably doesn’t get that emotional many times—but the thought of losing anyone in his life who means a lot to him is extremely devastating. So like I said, we were playing with that line a lot, and then when one of the producers came over and said “do it a little melancholy” it really clicked for me. In the beginning I was definitely playing it a little funny. I was like “wait, no. That’s a good note. Trent loves his Grandma”. That right there brings a little more humility to his character. CLARA: One of the things I love about the show is it breaks down these one-dimensional expectations we have about these different groups in high school. The nerds are not just the nerds, they also like to party and do their own weird things. Similarly the jocks have actual relationships where they know things about whose grandma is not doing well. I feel like it’s very humanising and takes you out of that typical “the jocks are just jocks and airheads and they have nothing in their brains, and the nerds are all up in a book and asexual” and whatever else. Ben: If you want an audience to care about characters, even if it’s a character they don’t like, you have to see those characters caring about eachother. So we are just jocks and whatnot, but for Marcus to go out of his way and say “by the way, how’s your grandma doing”, that’s sweet! You’re willing to bring that up, especially in front of Ben who we’re really supposed to be acting cool in front of. I also think the way the producer had me switch that, could also interpret that as Trent’s trying to make fun of the whole demented thing because he doesn’t know how to deal with it. You know, we do that a lot in real life, we make humour out of things that don’t really make sense to us. I think that was a really strong note to be given. I do want to make one note, because you mentioned the cake. It tasted awful. CLARA: Oh no! DANI: Was it mostly Fondant? It looked like… BEN: Exactly! It was so fondant-ed out. It was insane. For whatever reason… I guess we all know why, they eventually just had Trent eat a lot in this show, I was eating a lot. In the earlier scenes were I had to eat, I was like “no I’m method, I don’t need a spit-bucket, I’m going to eat everything” and quickly I realised there’s a reason to spit your food out, I couldn’t even swallow that cake. DANI: Yeah I don’t like cakes that have too much fondant either. BEN: Yeah, I’m not even a cake person, so to just have 90% fondant was a nightmare. DANI: I bet! So before we say goodbye and get into fashion, if you could steal anyone’s wardrobe on the show, who’s would it be? BEN: I do love Trent’s fashion. Trent actually dresses very similar to me. In this episode specifically, it would be Fabiola. Fabiola’s track-jacket is FIRE. Her yellow and whatever. Aside from that: when I’m an older put-together man… it’s going to be Mohan. Her dad is like… what a handsome guy that guy is! Like holy shit. And he’s so put-together, everything is clean and nice. When I’m older I want to look like that. DANI: Whenever I see him though I’m like: It’s Mohinder from Heroes. BEN: did he play a villain?! DANI: No, more like a naïve hero. He’s always making mistakes, he’s a scientist who screws up constantly. CLARA: And lastly, is there anything you want to plug to the audience before you go? Anything not related to Never Have I Ever? Since I think the audience already knows that Season 2 is going to happen. BEN: I don’t have anything coming up. I’m really trying to get a pilot off the ground at some point. Aside from that, if everyone wants to follow me on Instagram @BenANorris I haven’t posted a video in a while but I tend to release my own short videos and that’s my own passion-project right now. So go on there and hopefully I can make you laugh. CLARA: Thank you so much for joining us, this is delightful. And I hope we can have you back on in Season 2. Maybe we can get some Treleanor and we can have you and Ramona together! BEN: Yes, I had a really good time, this was awesome! DANI: Thank you so much! BEN: Thank you! CLARA: Take care! DANI: Bye! Alright, so Fashion! I liked pretty much most of Paxton’s outfits. I liked the jacket he was wearing to the party. I like his outfit when he is sitting on the steps with Devi. He’s wearing, what is it a flannel short-sleeve button-up? CLARA: I feel like knowing that his sister is a fashion designer, I kinda wonder if she helps style him. DANI: Maybe, he kinda seems like someone who would be good at dressing themselves anyways. Then of course Ben’s outfit in the classroom is… not a big fan. But him and Devi match though and that’s cute. I love Fabiola’s outfits in the episode. CLARA: Yeah, all of them. DANI: Kamala’s outfit with the headband when she’s constructing the clock. I really like that outfit. CLARA: can I say something about Fabiola’s outfits? I think it’s really telling that this is the episode where she starts to develop a fashion-sense of her own, because she just came out to her mom in the last episode That’s a huge weight off her shoulders. I think it’s a great little character detail, she finds out who she wants to be and what she wants to project. DANI: Yeah, she’s definitely kind of just starting to dress up more. Be more open. I love Trent’s outfit, I can’t remember which one it is but it was probably the one he was wearing to the party. Ben’s party outfit, I think looks really, really good on him. I didn’t really like the Tartan pants at first. They kind of grow on you, a little bit punk-rock. CLARA: Doesn’t Devi have a tartan skirt that’s really similar colours? Or maybe she also has tartan pants? DANI: She has tartan pants that are really similar that she wears. I think it’s earlier on in the season. But I also want to jokingly point out that this is the scene where he’s sitting really funny in the theatre chair. CLARA: Oh yes, his bisexual posture! DANI: His bisexual posture! I like that outfit, it’s a little more rock-and-roll than what he’s normally wearing. I like Devi with glasses and I think she should wear them more. I love Devi’s party outfit too, her little dress. She rarely wears dresses. It’s usually a skirt if she’s wearing and showing off her legs. And of course I love the white suit that gets ruined by the ball juice. CLARA: oh my god it’s such a fire suit! It’s so good. DANI: I’m really curious if it’s actually from Coles and does Angelica Houston have a Coles Line? I don’t know. Just that line is so funny. CLARA: Should have googled it! DANI: I know, I’m surprised I haven’t. I mentioned the jacket Paxton is wearing earlier. I really like Eve’s jacket and I love that her entire crew is wearing leather jackets, it’s so gay. CLARA: Eve always looks hot. Every single outfit she wears. Every single look. DANI: She does. Yeah she’s definitely someone who has curated her style. CLARA: One-liners? DANI: One-liners. The first one I have is: “I hope you enjoyed that, because that will be my final impression”. Eleanor. CLARA: And of course it isn’t! DANI: Yeah of course! And then when she’s like: “Hi my name is Eleanor, my favorite color is beige and my dream is to be an accountant.” DANI: I love how even when she’s not acting, she’s acting. CLARA: Yeah, she can’t not. It’s too much in her blood. DANI: Yeah. Um, and when Devi says: “Ben, I don’t have time to listen to you pretend to have standards.” CLARA: Such a good line! Ugh, Ben always thinks he’s burning her, but she’s so much better at it. Her comebacks are so perfect. DANI: Oh she’s definitely better at it. I’ve noticed that if he comes back, it’s usually… the only time he’s successful is when he’s really mean, because then it shuts her up. CLARA: I feel like her relationship with Ben, her teasing him since they were kids and their constant competition, is what makes her an acceptable hot-pocket member, because she’s so funny because of that. DANI: Aw man, I wanna see her roast all the hot-pocket members, she would totally get drunk with them and roast them. CLARA: And they would love it, and she would say one mean thing about Trent and Paxton would be like: “Dude too far” DANI: And then the next line I had is Fabiola: “I left a funeral so I could be by your side, when Nick Jonas married an Indian Woman that wasn’t you.” And then Devi: That was very hard on me.” … I nearly spit every time I hear this line. It’s just honestly gold. CLARA: Some time you will have to tell about your history with Nick Jonas. DANI: oh no, no one needs to know that. And then when Doctor Ryan says: “I think you give many F’s”. CLARA: I feel like I’ve said the exact same thing to you before. DANI: Probably. I’m usually willing to admit that I give a lot of F’s even when I don’t. And then when Steve was like: “I know the whole roof by touch”. CLARA: Creepy, honestly. DANI: it is creepy, but at the same time, it’s her decision to let her sneak in like that. CLARA: Yeah, he didn’t need to tell that to Devi though. DANI: He’s dummy! CLARA: He’s a dumb scientist! DANI: and then when Kamala’s like: “It’s not a triangle, it’s more of a line and a dot if you’re really going to graph it.” About the love-triangle. And then when Oliver’s like: “Oh right we’re supposed to be mad at her…. Beat it, Vishwakumar.” CLARA: He’s so not good at being mean! DANI: He’s not! You can see him in the back of a lot of things being shocked and not knowing what to do about this drama. And then when Ben’s like: “My life is like home alone, except when they realize Kevin got left behind, they just stay in paris.” CLARA: Poor Ben! Poor little rich boy. DANI: Fabiola says: “I’m not used to popping off, it was very tiring.” CLARA: I love how every time she says “popping of” she says it slightly awkwardly, she’s like: I’m not used to… “popping off” DANI: yeah! And then the last one I have is from Eve, she says: “I came out by getting stoned and tweeting “me gay now”.” Perfect, so perfect! So MVP. This is way too hard. I’m just going to give it to the ensemble. I’m going to bitch out and give it to the ensemble. They were all very strong in this episode, the Daxton scenes were great, Maitreyi and Darren really sold it. Jaren is fantastic as Ben, especially in the theatre scene, and Lee and Ramona respectively killed their performances. Everyone is just way too good in it. Even just as small as the background, the reactions that they give, it’s a really strong episode. CLARA: And like Ben was saying, this is one of the episodes where they really were all together as an ensemble a lot more. All in the same scenes and everything else. If I were to pick, I cannot narrow it down to one, but I think I can narrow it down to two. I think I would give it to a combination of Lee for that scene where she reams Devi out, and to Darren. I think they both do a good job of selling it, like you said. But I feel like I don’t give him enough credit on this show, so. DANI: Yeah, like I said I don’t think he’s in enough of this show unfortunately, as much as you think he would be. But whenever he is he’s really good at it. And with that, I think we’ve come to the end of our show. Listeners, thank you for joining us. If you liked this episode, you can subscribe online wherever you get your podcasts. And you can follow us on Twitter or instagram @nhie_podcast. Bye! CLARA: Before we say goodbye, I want to add one thing. I want to thank everyone who has been putting reviews on Apple Podcasts, that really helps get us our audience. It makes it easier for people to find us. So if you’ve done one, thank you so much! And if you haven’t done one and you love the show, please let the world know on Apple Podcasts! And yeah, bye! DANI: Bye! CLARA: ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme. CLARA: Mind slut! BEN: Do I go, or…?