NHIE – 1x09 TRANSCRIPT DANI: Welcome back to “Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast”. I’m Dani, CLARA: and I’m Clara, DANI: and today we will be discussing the ninth episode titled “Never Have I Ever… had to be on my best behavior” (Written by Matt Warburton and Directed by Tristram Shapiro) I just found out the other day that these two both worked on Community together, and Matt wrote one of my favorite episodes of the whole series where they are playing an 8 bit video game to try and get Pierce’s inheritance. CLARA: That’s so funny, we were doing a community re-watch at the beginning of the quarantine and we definitely made it through that episode. We stopped at Season 6 because… Season 6. DANI: I had actually never seen Season 6 until I did my re-watch because I remember when it switched over to being on Yahoo, and I was like “what?” CLARA: Does that platform still exist? DANI: I don’t think so! It was definitely a fail. CLARA: aww. We should get into the episode but of course before we do. We’ll let Kamala and Prashant tell us a little about what this is about. [Recap clip: Kamala admits to Prashant that she was dating someone else very recently, to which he feels that he was being pranked. Kamala reassures him this isn’t true and apologises about her ex-Steve. She also reveals that while her and Steve are definitely over, she isn’t sure if she’s ready to get engaged to Prashant either. They start to bond.] DANI: So, Clara, what did you think of this episode? CLARA: I actually really like this episode, I have been trying to talk about this episode for ages and I think part of why I like it is because the dynamic between Kamala and Steve (vs Kamala and Prashant), you start to see that there’s another way of looking at it than the way she’s been looking at it (and maybe the way some of her western friends have been looking at it). I think she saw “arranged Marriage” as someone she was automatically not going to have anything in common with, but there is this whole thing around her family has tried to find someone whom she actually DOES have a lot in common with and has real shared interests with. Also Steve is a creeper in this episode, and I feel like that’s something we’ve been talking about and I have been setting up for a while, and so in some ways I think I like it because I get to talk about that now. What about you? DANI: If I had to choose a least favorite episode of the season, it would probably actually be this episode. I feel like it’s the closest to a filler episode that the show has. It isn’t actually one, but it’s closest to one. I think it also comes from not being able to relate to it all that much. I still love this episode of course, and there are some parts that really move me. The revelation of what went down between Devi and Nalini the night Mohan died was a lot to take in. I also feel like I see it so much differently after having seen the episode god knows how many times at this point. This is also a huge tipping point for Kamala, who finally meets the man her family has arranged for her to potentially marry: Prashant. We’ll get into all of those things, but I do want to reiterate that although I said it’s probably my least favorite episode of the season, I still really loved it a lot. CLARA: I think this first season at least doesn’t have filler episodes, it’s so tightly written. Some of that is format, it’s not an episodic show, it’s a story-driven show, single-arc, but they’re 30-min episodes, so it’s easier to make it tight in an arc like that. And it’s only a 10-episode season, it’s very coherent, the way it’s structured and the way it’s written is to not have filler. I can sort of see what you’re saying, but I really like it. The more drama we get, the more I like the episodes, and there’s more drama here for all the reasons you mentioned. DANI: There’s a lot of drama, and I think those moments are my favourite parts of the episode. CLARA: So shall we kick that drama into high-gear? DANI: Yeah! So the first thing I want to mention is the flashbacks and their significance to Devi and Nalini. For one, I feel like there’s so much more going on in the flashbacks that they show throughout the episode. Devi screaming at her Mom and her Mom screaming back. I feel like it had to have been more than just Devi losing her sheet music because they both seem so much more upset than it being just that. I’m curious if Mohan and Nalini had been in a fight and Devi overheard it. Or if Nalini was upset about… I don’t know… just the way that she talks to her… I was thinking maybe she’s upset that maybe she lost another baby or found out that maybe she can’t have more children, which would make losing Mohan even harder for her. I just feel like there’s so much more there and I’m not sure what. But there’s a scene where she’s so upset and she says “I will not calm down if this child insists on being such a headache to me,” she screams. And it feels really loaded. CLARA: I think there’s a couple things, I think Mohan took to America way more than Nalini ever did. I think it was his dream, and he got into the motorcycle and being in California. He fell in love with the house that they got. It does seem like it was really driven by him. Nalini loved him, and wanted to raise a family and she loved her family. I think she’s always been fine in America, but I think she has much stronger ties to the culture and the cultural expectations back in India, and she wants to pass those on to Devi. Maybe it’s a bit more important to her than it is to Mohan. I sort of talked about this before and I don’t think it’s unrelated. I think we see Mohan almost entirely through Devi’s perspective and one of the things we see in the little conversation about the sheet-music between Mohan and Nalini is they don’t agree with how they believe they should treat Devi around this issue. So I suspect there’s a bit of a traditional gender-role dynamic here of the Mom having to be the hard-ass and the dad being the one who gets all the love. And that’s hard right? That’s a hard sexist dynamic. It’s replicated in lots and lots of families and I think it creates a certain kind of tension because as the Mom, Nalini I don’t think feels fully supported. You were saying a fight: I don’t think I would say a fight, but I can imagine being Nalini in that situation and feeling unsupported by Mohan, and that creating tension. DANI: But it does seem like the anger… because when it starts it seems like they were already upset. So I just feel like there’s more there. CLARA: Yeah. I think it comes from the same place though. I think Nalini is more of a hard-ass, and her expectations for Devi are different and Mohan is like “let go. Let go of your expectations. She’s just a kid.” And so I think that’s probably a running tension in their marriage and also their parenting. DANI: I also thought potentially it could have been (because of the revelation that Nalini wants to move back to India), I’m curious if maybe she was trying to have that conversation and that’s what made everyone upset. CLARA: I think it’s related. I think some of her expectations come from cultural expectations, or the way that children and their parents interact. One thing that I sometimes do in fights when I am not fully aware that I’m fighting about something else is that I will really dig in on an issue because it’s sort of tangentially related, rather than deal with the big important thing, I am dealing with that tiny part of it. And so Cultural expectations: India vs America could totally be something in the background that leads to her being harder on Devi for something that seems like a relatively small infraction. DANI: It does also seem like, as much as Devi would probably hate to say it, she is her mother’s daughter. They are so similar in many ways. They are so stubborn and headstrong. Which obviously can create a huge clash, I have that clash with my grandma, I love her to death but living with her was the worst because we were so at odds with eachother and unwilling to back down. CLARA: Especially when it’s a parent-child relationship and probably too with a grandparent-grandchild relationship. I think there’s a desire on the part of the older generation to protect their kids from the mistakes they’ve made. So if they feel like “oh I’ve always been super stubborn and headstrong and it’s gotten me into so much trouble, I could have had a much easier life if I wasn’t”, you can totally see them being more of a jerk about that particular point where they’re the same. DANI: Yeah. People think Nalini is cruel, she’s not a popular character as far as fandom things go. Because of how mean she can be to her daughter. I don’t know, I think that’s pretty stereotypical for People of Colour families, and I know a lot of people don’t understand that either. CLARA: Well immigrant families for sure, we talked about this a little bit before. My parents aren’t immigrants, but my grandparents were second generation immigrants and you sort of see that dynamic the further you go back with the generations in my family you see more and more of that dynamic. I think it’s very fear-driven, you know, “we have to survive, we’re the outsiders, we have to fit in and conform to expectations, we have to be the best.” You know. Gotta be twice as good to get half as far. DANI: Yeah, there’s a couple of other things I want to talk about between the two of them. Obviously there’s the very end of the episode where Devi is like “I wish YOU were the one that died that night”. CLARA: Brutal. DANI: That whole thing was hard to watch because I feel like Nalini was actually really opening up to Devi in that moment, and Devi’s just seeing the negative memory over and over and over again. So I feel really bad for them both. Obviously neither of them mean these really awful things that they say to each other when they’re hurt. CLARA: no, and you can see it on their faces like two seconds later. DANI: And that’s another thing they have in common: get the angry thing out first and then hope that you can take it back later. CLARA: But they don’t, neither of them apologises. Ever. DANI: NO, they don’t! they never do. I mean I think Devi has done it once or twice, but I mean over all if you look back to the whole Paxton situation, how she lied, she never actually apologises to him. He just kind of forgives her. CLARA: Devi you got some growing up to do. DANI: She thanks him for not telling anybody but she never actually apologises for her behaviour. And you can tell that it’s such a breaking point for them, Nalini’s not even really mad at Devi, she’s just sad. She’s just really sad at where their relationship has gone. CLARA: Yeah, and not knowing how to get it back to a good place. DANI: yeah. And she obviously really loves her daughter and cares about her a lot. Because there’s a couple moments in this episode and others, the sheer thought of Devi potentially losing the use of her legs again terrifies Nalini. She starts pinching her to make sure she’s okay. And they do have some lovely exchanges in this episode too. Kind of have this vibe back and forth. Just this mother-daughter dynamic of… they have very similar senses of humour. There are moments where Devi says something so out of line that I swear Nalini would get mad, but she doesn’t, they have a really similar sense of humour. CLARA: They do. Well I think we’ve probably covered most of this, do you want to tackle something else in this episode? DANI: Let’s talk about her uncle! For one, Avarind, I wanted to point out he plays Abed’s dad. CLARA: Does he? DANI: yeah, Abed’s dad! CLARA: Oh my god! DANI: I think he’s also the principal in GLEE, if I remember correctly. CLARA: Oh man, there’s a lot of shows I need to watch again DANI: I mean, I don’t know if I could do a GLEE re-watch! CLARA: Has it been long enough? DANI: Is it ever long enough? Nah I’m just kidding. It’s an… okay show. CLARA: Yeah, he’s a really funny character, I enjoy what he brings to the family dynamic. DANI: I keep getting this weird sense that he might be gay, they make a lot of funny jokes, Devi points out at the beginning that he’s never been in a relationship, she keeps digging at him, “you can’t give relationship advice, you’ve never been married” and he says some stupid joke about how committed he is to his work, the security business. And then he also makes Prashant very uncomfortable throughout multiple times throughout the episode. So I just got vibes that maybe he’s the gay uncle. CLARA: Maybe! DANI: Or just likes to be alone. It could be either one! I just thought it was kinda funny. He’s also just such a scene-stealer. He’s so funny. I don’t even know, he just calls them out so many times. CLARA: we were talking about this last week with Ben on, Guest stars are always fucking ringers, they’re always so good especially in a comedy. Of course they steal the scene! DANI: I think there’s a reason why it’s a category in award shows as guest stars, you can actually get an Emmy or a Golden Globe for being a guest star if you’re good enough. CLARA: Yeah. He’s definitely a great character actor. DANI: He is. I don’t think I have too much else to say about him, I did just want o touch on that. Let’s move onto Kamala. I feel like she comes out of her shell a bit more in this episode, You really get to know her more than I think you get the chance in earlier episodes. CLARA: I feel like one of the things I really love about Kamala meeting Prashant, because she’s had all these expectations of it’s going to be horrible. When it’s not, it’s like the weight of it all lifts off of her. All of this fear and anxiety and distress in general that she’s had over the possibility of having to marry a total stranger, you see it melt away. And I think that allows us to get a better sense of who she is. Whether or not she ends up with Prashant, to be honest I could totally see her not getting with any of them and getting her PhD… I think seeing that it doesn’t have to be a death-sentence, it doesn’t have to mean she has to give up what she cares about. DANI: Yeah, I mean there’s multiple moments between her and Nalini too, where she’s just like “I was your age once, you don’t have to marry this guy, it’s just an option, we will support your decision”. It very much seems to be that way especially now, when it comes to arranged marriage especially within Indian culture. I watched that Indian Matchmaker show, it’s pretty funny. All of the families are pretty supportive, it’s very much your choice, and they do try really hard to get you someone who would be a match for you, that’s something that really matters to them. CLARA: Yeah, and I’ve heard that there’s a lot more support for love-matches too. I think some combination stuff in there right, I think that’s what’s going on in Kamala’s case. Her family is trying to find somebody who could potentially be a love match who is also arranged. It’s like a compromise between tradition and modernity. Is that the right word? Sorry! DANI: Yeah, definitely it’s evolved a lot. It’s not the same anymore. It might be the same still for other cultures, it’s definitely evolved. And I think that’s something she didn’t realise until then. How much options she actually does have. Let’s talk about Steve before we get into Prashant. CLARA: STEVE! Okay, does everyone see what I’ve been ranting about for the past however-many-episodes? Does everyone get that Steve is a creeper? DANI: He is a Creep, but he also just seems like he might be fucking-stupid. I can’t really tell… CLARA: Isn’t he in her PhD programme or something? DANI: mm-mm. He’s a coach at CalTec or something. CLARA: Oh okay. Sporty spice! DANI: He might actually go there but he’s not in the same field as her in any way shape or form. I like Steve, I don’t think I dislike him as much as you do. CLARA: my distaste for him has grown just talking about him more. DANI: he just says stuff that is just dumb. I feel like he needs to take a step back. I really hated that he compared arranged marriage to Sexual Slavery. That was a huge line— CLARA: It’s super inappropriate in about 12 different ways. DANI: Oh yeah. He’s just… creepy. He’s not over-the-top creepy. CLARA: Well you made this comment before we got on the air. Him in this episode kinda reminds you of the TV show YOU. It’s Sera Gamble and Greg Berlanti TV Show, it’s an adaptation of a book series. The whole premises of it is there is this guy who is a serial stalker and killer of women who basically grows up marinating in all of these romantic comedies, which if you actually take them seriously, in so many romantic comedies there is the big grand-gesture… it involves what is essentially stalking. They involve the guy who won’t take no for an answer. Keeps going after a woman and it’s painted as a big romantic thing. So that’s the trope that YOU is flipping on it’s head. And I thought that was a really insightful comment. DANI: It’s one of those things that’s not that deep, but it reminded me slightly of that show, just that romantic comedy stereotype. It’s something Kamala doesn’t like, which is what I really liked about it, she was like “no this isn’t okay” and she broke up with him. And I like that, and that’s what it reminded me of, it is not a good behaviour to have. CLARA: And he is super paternalistic with her, and I think some of that is just him being American and having generic American entitlement, like “we’re the best, whatever!” I don’t know, we’re not. I really like that she recognises it, and I love the way it’s set up. She feels going into this arranged marriage that THAT is the paternalistic situation in her life. That’s the thing where a choice is being made for her, and she doesn’t get a say and it’s a big decision. And then you get to this episode and it gets completely flipped sideways. I really like that and I feel like it was a really thoughtful way to broach the topic of arranged marriage and bi-cultural experience around relationships and those types of expectations with an American White Audience, because I think that so many times when we see arranged marriage pictured, we see it the same way that Steve sees it. DANI: yeah, I think so. I think it definitely illustrates that. I do think he realises in his final moments that he was wrong and that his behaviour wasn’t okay, because he’s like “did I just talk you into breaking up with me?” and she’s like “I’m sorry but I think you did”. And I feel like there is a potential for him to come back, he needs to change his ideas and not put her on this ridiculously high pedestal, which obviously he has put her on. CLARA: Yes, and I would honestly like to see that. I feel like I’m the only person who feels like Steve needs a redemption arc, but that’s sort of what I want to see is a redemption arc! DANI: That would be lovely! Give someone the chance to grow. And actually have them grow. CLARA: I genuinely feel like I didn’t hate him until we started talking about him in so much detail, and now I’m like “UGH STEVE” DANI: Oh man! CLARA: Also, Prashant is hot! DANI: Prashant is hot! But so is Steve. Steve’s good looking. CLARA: Yeah… Prashant’s hotter. DANI: He’s pretty good looking, but— CLARA: Sincere apologies if we ever have either of those two actors on this show. DANI: I feel similar, disliking a character after talking about them so much, that’s how I felt about Jonah. The more I talked about Jonah, and the more I paid attention to his character, the more I did not like him. No offence to him. CLARA: It’s so funny because I feel like it normally has the opposite effect, normally the more I look deeply at something, the more I talk about it, the more I’m like “here are the redeeming elements”. But yeah I agree with you, Steve and Jonah. Anyway, should we talk about Prashant the Hottie? DANI: Yes, for one it’s really funny that Devi is like “whoa, he’s hot!” immediately. The entire family is checking him out as he’s at the door. CLARA: I love how inappropriate Devi is, all the time! DANI: me too! And throughout the episode he laughs at her constantly CLARA: He does! He appreciates her! DANI: He appreciates her and her humour. So I do like that and I feel like if he were to become a part of the family and Kamala is with him, I feel like he could really help Kamala and Devi’s relationship become better. CLARA: I’ve just had this revelation that the Kamala-Steve-Prashant love triangle is totally the same love-triangle in Jane the Virgin. DANI: Mmmm… no. CLARA: Mhmmm. This is why you like Steve more than I do. DANI: No. NO! CLARA: because you’re a Michael person! DANI: Steve is NOTHING like Michael! CLARA: Disagree. DANI: I don’t even want to get to how much I FUCKING hate! The outcome fo that love-triangle. Bullshit. CLARA: okay I’ll stop trolling you now. DANI: Don’t even. That whole entire dynamic is just like “Oh, blood family is more important”, just saying! CLARA: DANI: Yes Prashant. He’s great, we don’t really get to see that much of him, this is the only episode that he is in. But he’s delightful. CLARA: I also love how graceful he is about the entire situation with Steve. And the conversation that he and Kamala have afterward. This is what I love about this episode and what I love about their potential relationship. This is what I was saying before, that Kamala’s weight of expectations lifts. He’s just fucking real with her! The more I think about this, the more I think that her central fear, was that in order for her to fit into this arranged marriage traditional narrative, that she felt that she wasn’t going to get to be herself. And every single thing he does is “no, let’s be fucking real”. DANI: That’s what we have, them talking it out. He’s very understanding of the Steve situation when he doesn’t really have to be. He’s incredibly kind to her and they’re both very genuine with each other in that moment and you can tell that they have a lot in common. They both don’t want to rush something. Then they’re also both weirded out about: why would they want her to be his mom? That was a really funny joke there. I feel like some people would think that’s weird! He’s similar to her, you can tell, I think he came to America for Education purposes as well. They’re both Engineers. They’re both so excited by things. I love when he’s like: There’s so many different flavours of ice cream! CLARA: Yeah, that’s the thing that’s most delightful about Kamala, just how excited and almost naively optimistic she is about everything. I’m thinking about episode 6, the Ben episode. He comes over and she drops the pot, and she goes “I thought that would be louder for longer”. Just that optimism and sweetness is so much at the core of her personality. And it’s nice to see someone else who appreciates that but also has a bit of that too. DANI: She kind of reminds me of that Disney princess movie, the one with Amy Adams where she comes to life, and she’s in New York and she’s so fish-out-of-water about everything, and very sweet and genuine, very similar. Also Kamala could easily be a Disney-Princess. CLARA: YES! Oh my god, she 100% could be. DANI: Yeah they just really vibe with each other, and I really dig that and would love to see more of that. Another thing about Kamala, and I didn’t realise that, but she did seem really upset at the concept of Devi and her Mom moving back to India. It’s this look of: You’re just going to leave me here? CLARA: It’s her family. In some ways I feel like she became closer to the two of them than she probably is to her family whom she left back in India. DANI: Yeah, because it seems like from off-handed comments that she has, that they don’t quite understand her drive and want for education, whereas that is something that Nalini does understand. CLARA: I talked to this woman from my radio show, this Palestinian-American woman. She said being member of a diaspora can feel like belonging to nothing at all. And I think that is something that outside of Nalini and Devi, Kamala feels pretty keenly. I think she feels like she doesn’t fit in to this world that she came from in India, she doesn’t fit in fully in America. It’s really this other family that moved that has these ties to both worlds that makes her feel at home. DANI: Yeah. ADVERT: Welcome to Slayerfestx98! I’m your host Ian Carlos Crawford. Slayerfestx98 is a Latinx-run queer-centred pop-culture Podcast. We discuss every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in order, but we also talk X-men, MCU, and everything else nerdy and/or gay. And sometimes I’m joined by… “Hi, I’m James Marsters”; “Trixie Matell!”; “Anthony Oliveira, hello!”; “Ming-Na Wen”; “Emily Nussbaum”; “Summer Bishil”; “Charisma Carpenter!”; “Kirsten White”; “Hi, Amber Benson!”; “LaToya Ferguson”; “It’s Clare Kramer!”; “Adam Seth”; “Jane Espenson, Hi!”; “Hi this is Stacey Abrams” We can be found on Spotify, GooglePlay, Podbean, Apple Podcasts and anywhere else podcasts are found. You can support us on Patreon. You can get access to our private facebook group, Patron-exclusive episodes and more. We can be found on all social platforms @Slayerfestx98. Make sure to say hi! Any and all support is much appreciated. Thanks! DANI: Let’s move on to Daxton. It’s not a very big thing in this episode, he’s in one scene. CLARA: He just gets Devi in trouble! DANI: He just gets Devi in trouble! Exactly. I didn’t have too many notes on it, I kind of feel bad for him. CLARA: He didn’t know what he was getting into. DANI: Yeah, I feel like he’s getting all of this misplaced anger that Nalini has at her daughter and he’s just taking the force of it. I don’t blame him for just walking away. Obviously in the next episode you can see that he doesn’t forgive her right away. And I get it, but he does take it a little too far in my opinion. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to cut negativity out of your life. CLARA: There isn’t! But I feel like he could be more understanding or at least fucking try to be understanding. DANI: Yeah, and that’s the thing: he never gives her a platform to talk to him. That’s what my underlying issue is with Paxton. He needs to let people in. He just decides so matter-of-factly that he does not want this person in his life and he just cuts ties. But he doesn’t really give anyone this opportunity to really open up to him. CLARA: The INFJ Doorslam. DANI: I don’t know if I would say that he’s an INFJ, but… CLARA: I also don’t think I would. Maybe he’s like… DANI: He would be hard to place. He’s kind of in the middle or introvert and extrovert. CLARA: Maybe that should be our final topic next week, or sometime next week. DANI: We should definitely get into that at some point. I’d have to think about it a lot harder, that stuff requires a lot of thinking. CLARA: I think we’ve said everything we have to say about Daxton for this episode, since it’s like three lines. DANI: Yeah, we’ll definitely get into it more, obviously next week, but I think he needs to be more open and less taurus-stubborn that he is. So the last thing I wanted to talk about in the episode, it’s Devi’s trauma. We didn’t get to talk about it last episode because it was running so long, so I wanted to get into that. Trauma and Therapy, stuff that we didn’t talk about last week. CLARA: Yeah, so where did you want to start? DANI: Well the episode before this ends with Devi seeing her uncle, but she thinks it’s her Dad. And I just feel like after all of the events of the episode happen, I feel like it hits home some of the stuff that Dr. Ryan has been trying to tell Devi. It really hits home that she’s not over her Dad’s death (obviously she wouldn’t be over it) but she’s not grieving well. CLARA: She hasn’t processed it, at all! DANI: yeah. It really hits home about Paxton, I feel specifically. She’s unintentionally using Paxton as a distraction to get over that. And not think about it. CLARA: And I think her friend’s calling her out about it last episode help that a lot too. Like Fab getting really pissed at her. And she doesn’t get super, super explicit about all of it, but she definitely does make a bit of that connection with Paxton. I think that combined with Dr. Ryan therapy breaking up with her, she’s seeing the way that not dealing with this is creating a destructive pattern in all of her relationships. DANI: Yeah. I mean I don’t think the Dr. Ryan break-up will be permanent, I’m sure she will go back to see her. But the scene in Dr. Ryan’s office really got me, because Devi kind of loves to manipulate people. A few episodes ago when Paxton tells her that she’s manipulating him, she’s like: “well you’re overreacting!” And here, she gets defensive with Dr. Ryan and says she should get a different therapist. Even though you can tell she doesn’t mean it, she just wants Dr. Ryan and Paxton to change her mind, or be nicer to her, praise her, that’s what she’s looking for. CLARA: Not hold her accountable for her bullshit. DANI: Yeah! She thinks that eliciting such a negative response will get her a positive response, which obviously it doesn’t work that way. Some people do that, emotional manipulation, it’s not something they even think they’re doing. It’s that guilt-trip. “I’m going to guilt-trip you into being nicer”. CLARA: Yeah, to an extent I think she gets that through her Mom. Nalini isn’t doing it the same way or for the same purpose, but I do think that Nalini can be manipulative with her. So that’s sort of learnt behaviour. Without Mohan there to sort it out I think not only does it mean she’s absorbing more of that but I also feel she doesn’t think she’s getting support from sources that would give her the confidence to stand up to her Mom. If not stand-up to it, at least not be manipulated by it. DANI: It’s a double-edged sword because I feel like her Dad also instilled this behaviour in her of babying her. CLARA: Yeah! Not taking accountability. DANI: I assume it comes from that. Not taking accountability. I’m sure obviously he probably believes in saying sorry, so it probably got warped somewhere along the way, but just that dynamic of how different their parenting styles are really reflects in Devi. CLARA: I think you’re probably right, it’s a pretty toxic combination if you think about it. DANI: It really is, and Devi has some very toxic tendencies. CLARA: You think? DANI: Her being a dick is such a defence mechanism. She doesn’t want to be pitied but at the same time she wants to make people feel bad for her. CLARA: She wants to make people do things for her. Did I say this last time? I was thinking about how she is willing to use her Dad’s death to get things she wants in her social relationships. But she blew up at the douche college counsellor for suggesting that she use it to get into college. DANI: You didn’t bring it up but that’s a good point. I do think it’s something she needs to come to terms with and I do think eventually she should use that in her College essay, because that is so much of an important thing for her to deal with and still get through school. CLARA: It’s authentically her life. Even though he framed it in this gross way, it is also the big defining feature of her high-school experience, that her Dad died in front of her while she was performing in a concert. I can’t really imagine her being able to write authentically about anything else. DANI: I do think that’s also why she’s so reckless and out there, to make people not think about the things she was known about before. Paxton didn’t even know who she was until she was like “Oh I’m the girl who lost the use of her legs” and he’s like: “Oh, yeah.” So I think she’s very bombastic to get people to not think of her in those lights anymore. CLARA: I just had a really funny thought, what if the series finale is her writing her college essay? DANI: I feel like it would be more of: they graduated and already got into college would be more of a series finale? But. CLARA: No, but thinking about her emotional journey, thinking of that as symbolic of her arc. DANI: I mean a flashback to her doing it? CLARA: you’re wrong and I’m right! Kidding! DANI: NO. you can’t have a fucking high school rom-com and not have them graduate and they would already have gotten into college. CLARA: Whatever, but I’m still not convinced that it’s really a rom-com deep in its heart. Team Devi. DANI: mmmm. I think it is. I’m sorry but I’ve literally watched everything that Mindy Kaling has written and there’s no way that it’s not going to be a rom-com. CLARA: I think it will be fun if you eat your words later. DANI: I don’t have very many fashion notes though because it’s… CLARA: There’s not a lot of outfits! DANI: It’s mostly in Devi’s house it’s very much a bottle episode— CLARA: It’s kind of a Bottle episode! DANI: Yeah, even the flashbacks are basically footage they’ve already used in her house. I do like Nalini’s flashback-outfit and the way that her hair looks in it, it’s not a way that she wears her hair at any other time in the series. It could be used to establish that this is past-Nalini. CLARA: I kind of think of it… a lot has been written about Kim Novak’s hair in Vertigo. Which is a very weird reference. But basically, she has this very tight bun and she is this very tight, controlled character, and there’s a point when things fall apart, her hair comes down. You know, very transparent metaphor especially by today’s standards. But I do feel like there’s some showing Nalini in a state where she didn’t feel like she had to control everything quite as much, because she hadn’t lost so much. DANI: Yeah. I also have that I like Mohan’s outfit in the flashback, but he always dresses very nice. Prashant’s outfit actually reminded me a lot of something Mohan would wear. I’m curious if maybe he is very similar to what Mohan was like at that age. CLARA: I could totally see that. Though I do think Mohan’s a little bit more of a daredevil that Prashant is. DANI: Yeah, I think he’s a little bit more extroverted for sure. And of course Kamala looks fucking gorgeous. Red looks so good on her though. I love her hair so much. I think throughout the entire season her hair has always been my favourite. CLARA: I am that neighbour on the bike in the first episode. CLARA: I don’t know how anyone can not have a wild crush on her. DANI: I would be more like Oliver filming the TiKToK… CLARA: That would probably be you! DANI: But yeah, there’s not a whole lot of outfits in the episode. I remember thinking Nalini looks nice. Paxton always looks nice, I like the way he dresses as a guy. I don’t really like the outfit Devi wears throughout most of the episode, that colour green just doesn’t really look good on her. CLARA: You never like what she wears. DANI: That’s not true! I give her compliments all the time! She’s just usually wearing one piece that I don’t quite like. I really don’t like that colour on her, I think that’s mostly what it is. So that’s it for fashion. CLARA: Yeah, I don’t have anything to add, because there’s just not that many outfits in this episode. Other than: to reiterate how fucking gorgeous Kamala is. Red’s a great colour. All those red, orange, yellows on her look amazing. DANI: And teal CLARA: Yeah, honestly, is there any colour that doesn’t look good on her? Is there any THING that doesn’t look good on her? She could wear a burlap sack and still be gorgeous. DANI: Yeah, probably. Let’s get into our one-liners! CLARA: Mmhmm. DANI: The first one that I have is: “What if Prashant came here tomorrow and found everyone chopped up into little pieces by a murderer. That would leave them with a VERY bad impression of our family!” Avarind says that and it cracks me up because I was like “But there would be no family!” CLARA: I feel like that’s like if somebody says something really intense and personal about something hard that they went through, and the first comment on facebook is like “*their: T-H-E-I-R” instead of “They’re: T-H-E-Y-Apostrophe-R-E”. That’s the kind of comment that is. It would leave a very bad impression of the family, being dead and chopped into pieces by a murderer! DANI: The next one I have is also from Avarind. He said: “You can’t go for a run at night, this is the city of Charles Manson and Harvey Weinstein”. It’s like… he just takes everything to that level. Just a touch too far! CLARA: Also, does he think Harvey Weinstein is hanging out on street corners in the Valley?! DANI: Maybe, I think he’s trying to say: this is where all the really bad shit HAS happened. Not that necessarily these two people were involved—obviously Charles Manson cannot be involved, he is DEAD. And was in prison for a VERY long time! The next one I have is: “I reported her, and she’s been punished accordingly” - Nalini referring to the lady who watered her lawn during a drought. CLARA: See Nalini, I’m pretty sure she’s an ISTJ. She’s very traditional and rule-abiding and wants other people to be rule-abiding. Sorry, we don’t have to get into this now, just that one came to me in that moment. DANI: The next one I have is Devi, she says: “We want Prashant to fall in love with Kamala… and not me right?” - Devi… omg just the way that Maitreyi delivers this line is what makes it so funny… and as she’s delivering perfectly she’s also rocking some mad bed head. (obviously she’s still gorgeous but I’m sure most girls would look at themselves and think otherwise). Everything about that is so funny. The next one I have is from Kamala: “Greeeat, thank you for relieving the pressure, auntie.” CLARA: I love her! DANI: Kamala is honestly a masterclass in sarcasm and it’s not appreciated enough. She just always has these little one-liners that no one pays attention to, everyone just ignores what she says. It’s these little digs. CLARA: I don’t ignore it. I think she’s hilarious, I think you’re right—she’s an underrated character, TBH. DANI: She defs is! And then Devi of course when she says: “I’m sorry I called you hot… it’s just we were expecting an uggo.” And then he replies with: “Thank you for not thinking i’m an uggo.” CLARA: Devi’s comment was me, 20 mins ago, when I was apologising if we ever have those actors on for calling them hot. DANI: I don’t think they would ask for an apology for that! CLARA: Just for the record, I wasn’t expecting any uggos. DANI: The next one is from Kamala: “My favorite part is that traffic is separated into two directions. It’s adorable.” CLARA: I love her! Oh she’s so great! DANI: and the Devi when she’s like: “Cousin Manju is also a 28 year old virgin. So, I’m good.” And that’s when Prashant cracks up at her and her Uncle is so appalled that she would say anything like that. And that’s the moment when Nalini actually laughs, and normally I think you’d say “That’s not something you should say to a stranger” but instead she thought it was funny! And then, when Nalini says: “I know there are some real hunks on the cal-tech campus. I’ve watched Big Bang Theory”. Which: Just no! Oh no! CLARA: Eughhhhh DANI: And then when Avarind says: “We should set her up with your little brother. Your brother Arun… not the one who works at massage envy.” CLARA: Why not the one who works at Massage Envy? I want massages all the time! DANI: Because it’s a dig for him working at Massage envy! CLARA: Look if there’s one thing Quarantine has taught me, it’s that I should have married a masseuse. DANI: I miss massages. CLARA: So much! When we get out of this, I don’t know if it’s a thing, but I’m going to find a way to get a four-hour long massage. DANI: I don’t think it’s a thing, I think the longest you can get is 2 hours, but… CLARA: Then I will book 2, two-hour massages back-to-back with different masseuses. DANI: You could always go to another location, if they say you can’t go there, just go… CLARA: Yep. Dani. You and me. We are going on a massage crawl. DANI: The next one I have is: “is it the guy who was climbing the tree when I arrived? I thought it was the landscaper?!” Oh Prashant! CLARA: See this is the line that convinces me that Prashant is perfect for Kamala, because that is so totally a thing she would say. DANI: The last one I have (it’s from our clip): “April Fools is way scarier than Halloween.” When Prashant says that I was like: Yes. It cracked me up. I hate April Fools! CLARA: That’s some bullshit. DANI: I’m not against pranks, I do think they’re funny and can appreciate them, but I do not like April Fools, it just becomes cruel at some points. Although I did prank my mom pretty hard. So MVP. For mine I said: Everyone was amazing in this episode honestly. I definitely want to shout out the actors who play Avarind and Prashant for honestly killing it as one episode guest stars. Avarind especially was a scene-stealer. He was so funny. Prashant was just delightful. That’s just the best word to use to describe Prashant: delilghtful. Also Mindy and Lang truly just like outdid themselves with such an attractive cast, and it just makes me so happy… CLARA: Thanks for casting hotties! DANI: Whooo! No uggos! DANI: it just made me so happy though how much they have highlighted Asian men and women, because like I’ve said in the past… they are so rarely seen as the leading romantic interest, and it’s high-time that they are. That’s besides the point… my MVP is shared by Maitreyi and Poorna for sure. They just unleashed so much collective trauma in one episode, and they just slayed it. CLARA: They absolutely do slay it, I just want to also call out Rishi, is that her name? Who plays Kamala. Because as we were talking about, I think that character is really underrated, and I actually don’t think I’ve given her an MVP all this season which is CRIMINAL! Given what a scene-stealer she is. So I’m going to have it shared by the three women of the family. DANI: Smart. Yeah, we’ve never given it to her, and I feel like it has more to do with the way that she ISN’T in as many scenes, but she is great and we love her. CLARA: Yeah, and she is in this one a lot, so I feel like this is the right one to give it to her. DANI: My final topic: I just wanted to go for something light, and just talk about what we’ve been binging and/or watching lately. Give some good recommendations for people. CLARA: Sure, should I go first or do you want to go first? DANI: You can go first. CLARA: We’ve been watching Doom Patrol, just finished the first season last night. That’s been kind of fun. We did a Community-rewatch earlier in quarantine, I think I mentioned that. I started watching Avatar the last Airbender, I’ve only watched 3 or 4 episodes. But… LOOK! LOOK! I’m getting there! Give me time! I don’t know how you… I was talking to Spooky about this, we don’t understand how you are able to watch the amount of TV that you are able to, or how her partner is able to watch the amount of TV that they do. You do so many things— DANI: You have jobs! CLARA: But her Partner does as well! DANI: Oh, well I don’t. CLARA: I think you used to watch just as much TV when you did have a job. DANI: No, definitely not. I was always behind on shit. CLARA: I think you have a Time-Turner. DANI: I was always behind. Now I’m like: “what CAN I watch?” I’ve watched so much stuff, there’s no way I could get through… I’ve done 3 or 4 re-watches this quarantine of 8-season-long tv shows. So No: I definitely have not watched that much before. CLARA: You know what you have time for now? STAR TREK! But okay, I’m working on that and then just finished Umbrella Academy Season 2. Though I was kind of sleep-deprived for the last few episodes so I’m trying to watch them again. I think those are the big-hits. Baseball is back because they are doing the whole bubble thing so I don’t get to watch as much TV. DANI: You watch Baseball? CLARA: Lanier watches Baseball. DANI: Oh, okay. CLARA: And it’s three-hour long games because it’s baseball! DANI: That’s why I don’t watch sports! CLARA: Anyway what are you watching? DANI: Well I also did a community re-watch. It’s still funny. It’s a little bit outdated, but still enjoyable. I’m in the middle of a How I Met Your Mother rewatch. DEFINITELY outdated, still funny, but I just really wish they would apologise for some of their really deplorable jokes. CLARA: There’s some super transphobic shit in that. DANI: Yes! CLARA: Super-transphobic! DANI: There’s some really bad stuff in that show, but it is something that I was very into for a long time so… just wish they would go on the record! Not that hard! Also I watched Umbrella Academy, watched it twice already actually! I love that show, I mean I loved the first season. I read the comics. As someone who fucking loves My Chemical Romance, of course I read the comics, since the lead-singer of My Chemical Romance did write them. CLARA: Oh! Huh! DANI: Yeah! So I love that show. Great characters. I do think I like the second season more than the first season, but I do think it’s that the characters are already established so you get the meat of them without having to explain anything about them in the second season. I just watched the movie Work It. On Netflix. It’s really cute, has Jordan Fisher. It’s a dance-movie. I would say it’s a mix between Step-Up and Bring It On into one movie. CLARA: Have I told you about this TV show I watched, it’s terrible, but I love it in an “It’s Terrible” way! Fuck what’s it called? It’s about a time-travelling ballerina from the 18th or 19th century, who ends up in a modern dance-school. One of those dance movies where you have the fancy classical dancer and the modern hip-hop dancer. You know it’s the forbidden romance, Romeo-and-Juliet of dance school— DANI: Step up! CLARA: -- Except for there’s TIME TRAVEL! And it’s set in Paris. I’ll have to send you, it’s not good, but it’s also great for… DANI: because it’s not good CLARA: YES! YEAH! You do not have to have any brain-power to watch this TV show. It’s perfect. DANI: On the last thing that I just finished watching, I just watched it from the recommendation of Olivia Taylor-Dudley, she had just watched Normal People on Hulu. And I just watched it. It’s very good. It’s so sad though. So keep an open mind, you will probably cry if you are a cryer. It’s very moving. It’s also very, very sexual! I’ll put that out there in case you’re younger… maybe don’t watch it. But it gives a really amazing look at mental health and it takes place in Ireland so it is a bit different to what you’ll normally find on TV. CLARA: Cool, I’ll check it out! DANI: And with that, I think we’ve come to the end of our show. Listeners, thank you for joining us. If you liked this episode, you can subscribe online wherever you get your podcasts. And you can follow us on Twitter or instagram @nhie_podcast. Bye! CLARA: ‘Never Have I Ever… Hosted a Podcast’ is produced and hosted by Dani Lowry, with Co-host Clara Sherley-Appel. Saxon Ahern is our sound engineer, and Lanier Sammons wrote our theme. CLARA: Mind slut! DANI: obviously Charles Manson cannot be involved, he is DEAD.