Stephen Gutowski  0:00  
Millions more Americans just became gun owners a look at Rob Pincus, his unique activism style and an interview with Jim Garrity of national review that more on this episode of the weekly reload podcast.

Jake Fogleman  0:14  
I gave him poison,

Stephen Gutowski  0:15  
just for fun. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen to another episode of the weekly reload podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Gutowski. I'm also the founder of the reload calm and I'm here again, for our news update with contributing writer, Jake fogelman. We're going to do that before we get to our interview with the one and only national review. Senior correspondent, senior political correspondent actually don't want to cut him short. Jim Garrity, who's going to talk to us a little bit about the Chipman situation as well as the NRA. So before we get to any of that, though, let's talk about this week's biggest news story, starting with a new survey from the National Shooting Sports Foundation that detailed how many new gun owners have been created over the last six months here, the first six months of 2021. Now jakey wrote a piece on this earlier in the week. Can you give us a little bit of background? Would they find how many people bought a gun for the first time?

Jake Fogleman  1:16  
Sure, yeah. So the nssf does regular retail surveys with their partner drug gun retailers. So this one covered the first six months of this year. And the results of the survey found that they estimate about 3.2 million people became first time gun owners just the first half of this year alone, which is a continuation of a trend that we saw, obviously last year, were similar surveys estimated around 8.4 million new gun owners. So you know, it's pretty incredible to see survey data showing that there's about 11 point 6 million new gun owners just in the last 18 months. It's pretty unprecedented. Yeah. And so yeah, big news. And it's

Stephen Gutowski  1:58  
it's a lot of people, and it's well above the norm as well, for how many new gun owners are created each year. Obviously, the the last year and a half have been kind of a perfect storm for gun buying in America. A lot of the sort of motivating factors are there that you don't usually see all at once with the cast the pandemic the the rioting. Last year, the bad relations between police and my minorities, the hate crimes against Asian Americans had a food shortage is police. defund the police movement. You know, the and then obviously, the politics of it is still it's Breton center now, with President buying pushing for I mean, he just put in place a ban on new permits to import ammunition from Russian, you know, from Russia, from Russian meat companies. And so there's quite a lot of factors that go into why those numbers are so high. Which I've written a bit about it as an analysis piece, too. But yeah, I mean, there's also I would say, real quick, that there's, there is some question as to how accurate these numbers are. Obviously, they're just an estimate, right? From from an industry trade group. Right. So they're, you know, they they do this by asking dealers, what how many people they think, were new customers. And so dealers are obviously in some position to give that kind of estimate, but it's not going to be a perfect number. And we don't really don't have an imperfect number, because the other measure is usually public polling, where people are just directly asked if they're gun owners. And there's a lot of issues with that as well. But certainly, I think there could be major impacts, right? If there's, if there really were 11 point 6 million new gunners graded over the last year and a half.

Jake Fogleman  4:04  
Right. And experts we've talked to have pointed out to us, it's not the most scientific method, but it does point to a trend, at least as you said, dealers are in a good position to identify trends in the industry and in sales. And a few of the other things that the survey uncovered, also shows some of the motivating trends that you were talking about. Over 76% of every single dealer pointed to an increase in sales among minority groups, which is, you know, pretty incredible. We're talking about the fastest growing demographics and gun ownership are becoming minority groups. And that's reflected in these retail surveys.

Stephen Gutowski  4:36  
And that also has, I think, perhaps even bigger impacts on the political landscape for for gun politics. Because Sure, minority groups tend to own guns at a lower rate and tend to support gun control measures at a higher rate, but as more of them are becoming gun owners. You can see that that change it doesn't. Now I don't think it means that you're going to see that change overnight. People don't tend to instantly vote republican party line vs. Because they bought a gun, you know, a month ago. Right. But I think it'll have a more subtle impact. But a longer term impact is these things don't necessarily develop overnight. Just because you bought a gun does not mean tomorrow you're going to become a voter. But it might mean, in the long run the next election cycle or two, you might be more inclined to care about that issue than you were before you bought. Absolutely. So certainly that I talked a little bit more about that in the members only analysis piece, but but I think that that's probably the biggest trend in guns on a macro level, that's going to have the biggest effect. And that's going to be the most important thing. But we also finished this week, our exclusive interview with Rob Pincus, who is a gun rights activists is he's sort of countercultural gun rights activists might call me gay, he sort of relishes going against the grain, I think oftentimes, and so you get a taste of that in, in our piece, and I asked him by he operates that way, and whether he thinks that has any sort of negative impact on when he's trying to do or whether it's a, you know, an advantage, I asked him all sorts of questions that I think a lot of people have, for me is very controversial figure, I would say, not, you know, not not to. He's fairly influential one as well, for someone who, you know, isn't the head of, you know, 5 million member organization, but is trying to reform one in the NRA. And so we get into the the second interview, I think we get a little bit into his activism in the 3d printed gun world, where he was just involved with one of the first homemade firearms matches that I covered down in Florida a couple months ago. And then we talk a bit about his activism at the NRA and what he wants to see reformed there, that some of the changes he wants to make. And, you know, I think it's pretty, pretty interesting point of view. He's interesting guy.

Jake Fogleman  7:17  
Yeah, I thought it was a fascinating series of interviews, as you said, He's kind of a lightning rod in the in the gun space. People love them. People hate him, but you can't deny that he has a big impact. And yeah, he's a good figure to interview in that series. People should definitely read

Stephen Gutowski  7:33  
it. Yeah. And we, we did a third part to that interview, that's for members only, as well. Where we get into is his overall philosophy on guns and what, you know, his willingness to sort of call out, I guess, practices that he sees as toxic or damaging within the gun owning community. And he lays out a vision for how he wants to reach people outside, I guess, of the the echo chamber, if you will, of gun activism. And some what he views is necessary for that to be successful in the long run. I mean, he he talks about how he wants gun ownership to be a bipartisan issue when we want he wants to essentially eliminate the the ability of like, any political party to take an anti gun position, and he believes that doing that is going to be accomplished by, you know, activism in areas of the American community where people aren't as likely to own firearms.

Jake Fogleman  8:44  
Right. And it's interesting to see that coincide, sort of what we were talking about with survey data, showing new demographics, getting into guns, seeing active outspoken activists like Pincus coming out and making that their mission to get everyone involved. And you're starting to see that reflected in these legacy groups like this new NRA, you covered for the reload this week sort of reflects that same ethos.

Stephen Gutowski  9:04  
Yeah, it's an interesting hat. So the NRA, there's an NRA instructor, who is a member of the group's outreach committee, who does a training every year in Detroit is a African American guy who lives in Detroit, and he's a trainer there. And he does this training for black women, specifically, to try and encourage them to learn how to use firearms safely. And it's been growing every year. It's extremely successful. And this last year, he the you know, they trained over 4000 women at this event. And the NRA, frankly, did a smart thing and when profiled him for an AED like he's an NRA, certified instructor and NRA member and an advocate for the NRA. And he's doing this amazing event. And it's I think one of the better ads That the group has put out in a long time, frankly, you know, obviously they've had issues in the black community in the past, especially surrounding how they handled the flandreau kasteel shooting where they didn't, a lot of people were unhappy with the lack of, I guess, an array involvement in that. Right, given that he was a concealed carry holder, and he was killed by a police officer for under at least very questionable circumstances, I think everyone's probably seen the video and can judge for themselves what happened in that situation, but I think a lot of black gun rights activists wanted them to do more, and they didn't. And so they've come under scrutiny for that in the past. And but here they are, at least, you know, trying to appeal to African Americans and women. And really, the ad is about reaching out to all kinds of different demographics, all kinds of different people and saying that guns are for everyone. So except for maybe leftists, I guess let's add it's not it's not very bipartisan, I suppose it says a

Jake Fogleman  11:19  
lot about how the left the NRA can only change so much. It's a lot about how the left

Stephen Gutowski  11:23  
wouldn't, doesn't approve of black gun ownership. And, and hey, maybe that, you know, you could make that case, it's certainly there are some people on the left too, would not approve of that, of what they're doing at that event. So fair enough. But But yes, it is interesting. And I think it was worth highlighting. And showing people that here's something there is doing the interviews very big group. It's it's a large organization, there's plenty of things to scrutinize and critique. But there's also plenty of things that they do that people you know, you don't want to hide, that wouldn't be fair, or, or reasonable or balanced to hide the stuff they're doing that is worthy of highlighting in this way. So that's, that's so we wrote about it. And I think people should go and watch it and judge for themselves what they think of yet. But that's for the rest of what's going on with the NRA. We're actually going to talk a bit about that with Jim Garrity here in a moment. So let's head on over to Jim. We are here with Jim Garrity, author and National Review pub. political correspondent, senior political correspondent Is that right?

jim geraghty  12:34  
It is Stephen That's what you call a political correspondent who gets old. Yes, thank you for having me. And, by the way, congratulations on I would say the launch of the reel I guess it's been it's been launched for a while but you have already become you know, the shortest of the shortlist of go to reporters on all gun issues and going off and doing this on your own is that that took courage my friend so good for you glad to see is thriving and very happy to be with you.

Stephen Gutowski  13:00  
Okay, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. Can you tell tell people a little bit about yourself, anyone who might not know who you are listening, just give a little bit of background on

jim geraghty  13:09  
your I'm a cancer six to No, I'm sorry. So I've moved the National Review, in one form or another really, since 2004. Full Time 2002. as a freelancer started out writing to the call to carry spot during the 2004 presidential campaign. I joke that every time john kerry opened his mouth, I had to write 250 words. Very popular, took off, went over to Turkey for two years when my wife was working for the embassy out there and tried my hand as a foreign correspondent. As things got worse overseas, it was better easier for me to get pieces in places, you know, bird flu. And this is Stephen This is back when bird flu seemed like a real health threat. Came back and covered the 2008 presidential election for national review. And I've kind of been on the the the politics that elections beat for them ever since. You know, then March 2020 came along and the pandemic overtook our lives. And with really McBride I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on TV. Not enormous amount of grounding in science and health reporting and stuff like that. dove into the pandemic just because I was surrounded by so many people who were like, holy crap, what's going on? What do I need to know that kind of stuff. And so that became a big part of my beat, wrote a little bit about those labs and Wu Han. And the weird coincidence that they were working on, you know, doing gain of function research and novel coronaviruses in bats, when we just happen to have this novel coronavirus, the spotted bats come around and get us. So that's occupied a big chunk of my time. And then Afghanistan is the latest story that I kind of knew a little bit about. And I've just been hearing from my readers who are very much involved in the effort to get people out of there. And they're just unloading unbelievable information day after day about the ongoing efforts out there. So I guess it's kind of a little Have a jack of all trades master. And in the middle of all this earlier back in 2004, I started joining our mutual friend cam Edwards on his program on the late NRA TV or at that point is just called NRA news. So guns and second amendment became a part of my regular beat, I wouldn't pretend to know what the way you and cam and those guys do it probably just more like the it's funny for a long time how the NRA convention wasn't quite the Republican National Convention, sort of an event, but you'd get a lot of big name speakers out there. And if it wasn't quite a republican primary, early audition, it was the kind of place if you were a strong on the second amendment politician, you want it to appear, and you want it to make your pitch because 80,000 people attended, maybe not all 80,000 people would be in the hall when you would appear. But a big chunk of them would and if you did a good job of that ground. That would help you out. I think Sarah Palin was at the first one I went to, I want to say in Charlotte in like 2009 2010, somewhere there. So and also the lettering convention is also where I usually get to see us do that's why that's right. So far this year.

Stephen Gutowski  16:09  
The last one, yeah, unfortunately got canceled due to, you know, our latest wave of COVID infections, which you've also, as you mentioned, been been keeping up with in your coverage. But, though, yeah, the last NRA Annual Meeting featured the Leadership Forum, which is where all the political speeches happened. And that was in Lucas Oil Stadium, right where the Colts play. So that gives you an idea of scale there. That's the first time I've ever been on an NFL field, like on the field. So that was cool.

jim geraghty  16:40  
But any moment you put your hand on your feet on the artificial turf, you probably have torn ACL and you're up for the rest of the year. That's how you know it's not working. Yeah. Also, like there are a lot of years for the NRA convention. You would have our NRA annual meeting is the official name. I call it the NRA convention but the lot of fun, you know, one one day of like really solid work for me then walk around take pictures of the cool guns and gear and all that kind of stuff. And then getting to enjoy some city. Sometimes like colleagues like Charlie cook sometimes with canned stuff like that. And the last year 2019 was it was Indianapolis, right? Yes. There was actual days where the Colts sorry, yeah, well, the city is kind of blurry. I'm trying to remember which Steakhouse was that was the really way to remember

Stephen Gutowski  17:24  
that was a maxon Irma's yes the the stitches great it by the way the people listening we don't get into food coverage much here but if you do got any Annapolis, you got to not only get the steaks at max enormous but which are fantastic, by the way, but get the shrimp cocktail. That's right. That's the famous thing.

jim geraghty  17:44  
Yeah. Fantastic shrimp in Indiana. But yes, it was off the charts.

Stephen Gutowski  17:49  
It's a it's a like a punch in the face that cocktail sauce.

jim geraghty  17:54  
But it was like, there was actual big news here who that year because that was with all these reports of excessive and really ludicrously unjustifiable spending started bubbling up to the top. A small amount of NRA board members and members were very upset about this. I think it's safe to say that differently. Here's the thing. If Wait, I'm just gonna jump right into this, Steven, unless you want to steer me Well,

Stephen Gutowski  18:21  
actually. Yeah, actually, I will say the NRA stuff for a little bit later, because I do want to get into that. But first, you know, the big reason that I had you on this because of your experience and expertise in, you know, the politics of all of this. Not, you know, obviously, with, you know, Afghanistan COVID foreign policy stuff. You're great on that, as you mentioned early, but you're also really good at just understanding the impact of different stories on the political landscape. And so the first thing I wanted to talk about, the second thing will be the NRA, because I think that's interesting, too. But first, I wanted to talk a little bit about the ATF nomination failing, you know, Biden pulling his nominee David Shipman, just recently here, and what that says, I think going forward for the President's gun control agenda that was that he wants to get past. All right,

jim geraghty  19:21  
let's do it. I won't embarrass you in front of all of the viewers and listeners by saying that you are you can count on one hand, the people who stopped the chip nomination and you probably are on that day and or you could cut on the counter on the hand of a, you know, Lebanese bond maker, who may have lost a few along the way. There's very few people who did more to derail that. So I think you're entitled to take a bow on that. But what's more, look, this isn't for all the problems of this administration, and it's certainly in much rougher shape now than it was in January, February, March, the first couple months. They really haven't had many problems getting their people confirmed that you know, They want the officer of Management and Budget right that you know the narrow tandis was was kind of the one that comes to mind. Other than that the people Biden have picked, you know, all usually start with 50 democratic votes to go and most republicans and I think it a defensible position, I don't think you do yourself much good by taking the the attitude of I'm going to vote against every nominee that the opposing party of the opposing party chooses to nominate. I'm going to if this person is reasonable, I'm going to vote for him. The President has a right to pick the cabinet they want they have a right to pick the administration with the people they want, assuming they don't have a terrible scandal, or they're not unbelievably corrupt, or incompetent or evil, or something like that. Shipman may have been checked all those boxes, that he was about as controversial choice as we would have expected from Joe Biden and Joe Biden, the guy who earlier in his career used to say, I tell jail if you if you have worried about a home invader, get yourself a shotgun and just fire it out the window that you know that every now and then Joe Biden would claim that he wasn't that anti gun or pro gun control or that he knew what was going on with those gun gun owners and stuff like that. He's he's gonna hold back slapping Scranton, Joe. He knows about this kind of stuff. And then by Tokyo 2020. He's got Beto O'Rourke and saying you're gonna help me solve the gun issue. And if Joe Biden had any objection to beta O'Rourke, Hell, yeah, we're gonna take your ar 15. I didn't hear Joe Biden objecting to that at all. So again, gun owners and second amendment supporters and right of center folk Pro, this is a big issue. We had no illusions, the Joe Biden was gonna be bad on this issue. The question was, How bad was he going to be? And in the hierarchy of policy priorities, how high was gun control going to be? There are times like in the aftermath of something like the Parkland shooting where the Democratic Party seems there's a lot of there almost are no gun pro gun, or gun owners don't see a lot of Democrats who they would define as pro gun. It's like looking back at the I know, you don't really think about the NRA conventions too much. But like Jim Webb, I'm pretty sure spoke at one of them, he Schuler the former North Carolina congressman and Washington Redskins quarterback. And a couple years occasionally, you'd get a couple House Democrats or one or two Senate Democrats speaking at the NRA convention interrater great pride and saying, look, we are a bipartisan organization, we will work with anybody who is broken. We are not a republican organization. Those those democrats are fewer and further between, I you're really tough to find anybody. And if they have those views, they're certainly not outspoken about them. They they really don't want people to, you know that neutral. Quiet neutrality is about the best you can expect the democratic party when it comes to the second amendment these days. And the rest of them are just straight up vehement either oppose the Second Amendment, or I guess probably the most common way of characterizing Steve, they simply want to ignore the Second Amendment, they simply don't think that it's that any of their gun control proposals are in violation of it that you know that anything that strikes them as bad, and it doesn't matter if you point out that this isn't really effective as a Crime Control Policy, and all you end up doing is creating more headaches for law abiding legal gun owners. And you know, you could do stuff like go after straw purchases and stuff like that you'd have a bigger impact in places like Chicago. You know, there's just almost this wrote on thinking, you know, the problem is ar 15. The problem is gun owners that kind of stuff that the Democratic Party and I think this

reflects kind of this this cultural and demographic split between the two parties, like used to be able to find republicans in cities and Democrats in rural areas, used to be able to find blue collar whites who are proud member of the Democratic Party, their fathers of the Democratic Party, the grandfathers who have gone back, JFK, FDR. And the both parties are much more kind of culturally homogenic. So my suspicion is that if you're a gun owner, if you thought of yourself as a Democrat 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you've probably drifted over to the Republican Party, probably partially the gun issue. And probably also other issues could be everything from abortion and cultural values issues to just a sense of the Democratic Party starting to embody a urban elitism that looks down upon you. And vice versa, that you know, that there are probably people who might have been Republicans, but who are kind of pro gun control and suburban soccer monotypes or something like that, who have, you know, now flipped to the Democratic Party. Not wholeheartedly, but in some really significant numbers. So we expect things to be bad under Biden, the chip in defeat is a really pleasant surprise for folks on the right, who haven't had too many flippin surprises in this administration so

Stephen Gutowski  24:41  
far. But there and I guess, one question I'd have for you on that point is, you know, obviously it was the democrats who blocked this nomination. Certainly Joe Biden is his democrat himself put up the nomination, and perhaps, pushed the limits of what was possible here. Even with a democratic majority in the Senate, from the very beginning, given Chapman's background as a literal paid gun control activists, he works for the Giffords group, which is one of the nation's most prominent gun control organizations. But and he holds a number of policy positions that are further left on guns than most Senate Democrats publicly hold, including wanting to not just ban ar fifteens but subject them to that you're not expanding new sales but subjecting the current currently own ones to the National Firearms Act, which would require registration and tax stamps and, and presumably would make you a felon if you didn't comply. So, you know, he already had these things that were going to be big hurdles and getting him confirmed in a 5050. Senate. But at the same time, that obviously the more news came out, and you know, of course, I'm I buy our reporting at the reload on his background and some of the questions over his conduct with other agents, especially black agents, one of which directly told me that he believed Chipman tried to torpedo his career during a promotion assessment for reasons of racial bias. Now, the Department of Justice confirmed that there was a investigation initiated by Chipman they, but they also said they also claimed that he has no they defended shipments that he didn't have a racial bias. And so that probably had some impact as well, as you alluded to, I think probably significant impact, although obviously the reporting is, you know, the goal was not to take down a nominee it was to scrutinize his background as you're supposed to do in journalism. I'm glad it had an impact in terms of people reading it and taking it seriously. But But yeah, I think his his nomination was always a bit of a long shot. In hindsight, and perhaps it's difficult to get an ATF director confirmed, but it was ultimately democrats who blocked him, because he didn't need any Republicans to be confirmed. So, you know, I don't know, what is that? What do you think that says? Because I think the general thrust of what you said it makes sense, right, that that there has become a more polarized, the issues become more polarized over the last couple of decades, and Democrats have moved further away from policies that gun owners are supportive of and towards more gun restrictions. And, you know, the republican party has moved in the other direction. And so groups like the NRA have, certainly, you see this in their rank their ratings, and you see this in there, who who shows up to their annual meeting to speak? I guess there's a there's also a question of how much of that is being? Is them reacting to that dynamic? And how much of it is them driving that dynamic? I think that's something that's really interesting to, to think about. Is this just are they just being dragged along in this way? Or is the NRA contributing to that sort of polarization or, or, you know, the gun, the gun control groups themselves? Are they you know, by becoming sort of identity groups more than single issue groups? You know, you see this I talked about this a lot with the ACLU done similar strategic moves, where they're less about civil liberties in particular now and more about being a threat to the owners, our liberal identity group.

jim geraghty  29:08  
One of the the kind of factors that was always at work in this is every senate democrat knows, every republican so every president usually has a bad midterm. Going back to to that you got to go back to 2000. To find the last time president's party, really, not only did you know, not only do you not usually have a good midterm, usually you get slammed. And you know, we've seen the party lose the majorities of at least one chamber in Congress in 2018 2014 2010 2006. You can see the clear pattern there. So there's this ticking clock in the minds of Senate Democrats, they really only have two years to get stuff done the way they want to get it done. And they recognize they've only got the 5050 split in the Senate and they actually don't even have that many two, they've given the three or four in the house with all the vacancies they've had. So you know, they get over or take positions, the administration and all of a sudden what looked like a Okay, we're gonna be alright. jority turns into just a handful and you know, one flight being late on Monday from California and all of a sudden you don't have the the majority in the House that you thought you're gonna have. So they're operating with a very tight margins, the question is okay, all of these words are going to be tough. All these votes are going to require a lot of arm twisting. Which ones what are what do we really want to pass? And what are we what is worth taking a political risk to pass? Now, you know, you know, they they're trying to get infrastructure spending. They're trying to get Oh, this is a terrific time for my phone call.

Stephen Gutowski  30:33  
I betcha we had last week two,

jim geraghty  30:36  
they are almost certainly this is we're calling to reach you about your car's warranty. Oh, yeah.

Stephen Gutowski  30:41  
I get this all the time. And the worst thing is as a reporter, like most people, you know, who, who who has phone calls anymore?

jim geraghty  30:48  
Is that right? You know, textmaker recognize this number. Most people would care that Yeah, they just ignore it. But I got an answer. Or maybe it's a source. Maybe somebody you know, be a source. Yeah. So I'm always getting these David chip into neighbor to tell you what I've gone. Yeah. So you know, they're trying to remember my train of thought. So if you're a senate Democrat, when we most Senate Democrats are in safe states, but there are a handful that aren't I don't think angus king is in enormous chance of losing a seat in Maine. But really antagonizing his state's gun owners probably would put him at a point where he'd really have to sweat about it. You know, it's Susan Collins and that of winning by a, you know, fairly reliable margin and Election Day 2020. But But King, you know, keeps telling us he's an independent, he caucuses with the Democrats, you got to look really hard to see where you can find a difference between Angus kings positions and most of the Democrats, but actually, this is the case of the chip nomination. Maybe he's given us all a very vivid example of a nominee who was okay. To the majority of the democrats and really most other red state democrats there, there was not enormous, you know, but angus king can't, you know, either he sensed either he was genuinely bothered by Chipman or he could figure out that voting for Shipman was going to give the gun owners in state it his state, you know, mad as hell about it, and ready to walk across broken glass to vote for whoever was running against it. One of the things that is intriguing about the gun issue going back, you know, to the Bush years, it's not just the country has a lot of gun owners. It's also a matter where they live. And it tends to be swing states, it take you out like there are gun owners in New York State, but it's not really a state usually think of as as a gun issue. And unfortunately, you know, they don't necessarily have things of not moving in the right direction there. But you know, think about swing states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin. And then Ironically, the last couple cycles of Maine has been one of these states, that is a swing state Donald Trump winning the congressional district, and getting one of those electoral votes and things like that. So if you're angus king, you want you know, the midterms are going to go badly to you know, the Biden administration is going to ask you to take some votes that might not be kind of popular. This probably was a bridge too far. This probably was like, you know, I can't go any further than this. I'm just not gonna do it. And the other thing that I think kind of alluded to is that if David Shipman had been this, like, universally revered law enforcement official who had, you know, everybody loved them, and boy, he was swell, and he, you know, rescued a bus of orphans from terror or whatever, you know, if he going into the sterling reputation, then maybe, you know, Dutchess Democrats, maybe Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, the world would have said, Okay, well, he's a swell guy, we trust him to enforce the laws against kinetico. But he's not. And as you said, he's a gun control activist, quite extreme, going to positions that even most, you know, purple state democrats would not feel comfortable going. So the other thing was was like, Look, if the administration wants to set gun policy, you can set it from the white age in the I don't want to say the ATF matter director doesn't matter. But you can find somebody who will give you a lot of what you want at a David Shipman, without being David chip, who won't have his glaring weaknesses, and all that kind of stuff. So

Stephen Gutowski  34:04  
maybe, maybe, you know that. I do want to talk to you a little bit about what you just brought up here. Because I wrote an analysis piece over at the reload on this topic of like, where things go from here. That's a members piece. But but so people should buy a membership.

jim geraghty  34:24  
So that's why people should have members. Yes, exactly.

Stephen Gutowski  34:27  
But, yeah, I mean, I think that you've articulated what I what I noticed as well, which is that this might have been the end the one opportunity really, that Biden had to appoint an ATF director, a senate confirmed one at least, you know, obviously, the agency will continue to function with Active Directory has since been functioning to this point. But the timetable to reach out to nominate someone else is very short. Before the midterms, and I don't see senators, these democratic senators who blocked this nomination, you know, King, mansion tester, maybe cinema, wanting to take this issue up, again, right? during the election year during 2022. And I don't know that they'd have the time to get it through the by the end of this year, especially with everything else going on with it, they're gonna have a fight over the debt ceiling and budget, you're

jim geraghty  35:30  
gonna take a controversial vote on an ATF director you want as far from election day as possible. You want it to be, the last thing you want to do is to have a really controversial vote that's going to stir up people in your home state, right before election day. So Exactly.

Stephen Gutowski  35:42  
And then from there, you also have the problem, as you mentioned, that Democrats are probably going to lose seats. I mean, the almost certainly lose seats in the House. actually be interested in your take on what the Senate is going to look like. But they're probably to make this kind of vote easier to get to get a Chipman ask nominee through someone who isn't just, you know, a career ATF guy, but who is an activist who will, you know, sort of Shepherd through the President's agenda on guns, you know, in a way that can sidestep Congress. That's, you know, that's going to require probably more democratic senators. It seems like at this point, maybe you could find someone that would act the same way Chipman does, and give the president some kind of political benefit with the gun control groups that Shipman does. I kind of doubt it, but but who isn't like as controversial personally, but that seems unlikely. Just don't know that there's

jim geraghty  36:52  
any ATF director nominated by Joe Biden would be seen by most gun owners as a pro gun control figure. I think that's right. But the question is how gun control and kind of how antagonistic is this figure into their, you know, state public statements and speeches and stuff like that? Right.

Stephen Gutowski  37:10  
I mean, the problem is, if you if you let's say everything's the same, you don't they don't lose any seats in the Senate, after the midterms, which is the probably a rosy picture of where things are headed. They're still like, why would why would their vote change? Like, yeah, why would why would the senators who blocked Chipman be any more amenable to just Chipman 2.0? Instead, like King himself, from you know, what my sources tell me put up the names of the current ATF acting director, and another former acting director who are both career people to get through. And so you can probably get someone like that through. But the question becomes, what what's the point of doing?

jim geraghty  37:51  
Yeah, how much value if you are using a very similar issue with the FDA, wherever, you know, you may have noticed a little thing called a pandemic going on and get to still is not a full, you know, we're still having federal food Drug Administration, run by an acting director, you kind of think that this administration, we're all about the pandemic would have, you know, jumped on that a little bit earlier. You know, if you're, if you're happy with the way the organization is operating under an acting director, yeah, if you want to make a full form, go ahead. Fine, you know, if there's not going to be an enormous opposition in the Senate, fine, you know, but in the end, it doesn't make it you know, he his powers are the same, his ability to function is largely the same, I guess, basically comes down to political capital, you know, a new president coming into town in January, can go to almost any member of his party in the House or Senate and say, Look, I really need your vote on this. And 99 times out of 100, they'll get it. You know, this is one of those things. Now, when you are nine months into your presidency, and you have a 42% approval rating, and Quinnipiac, you don't have that same political capital, and you don't have that same poll. And maybe you've spent that I really need your vote on the COVID stuff. Or you may have really used I need your vote on some other nomination or the infrastructure bill or something like that. Or maybe you're somebody like Bob Menendez, who is by not often a critic of Democrats, are they but who's really p owed about Afghanistan. So maybe they're not in the mood to do a favor for you, particularly if they think there's going to be blowback in the next upcoming election. So I think in the end, Biden, you know, in his heart, he's, of course has probit control like that. That's, you know, that's almost a given the question of how much political capital he's willing to expend in pursuit of pro gun control, legislation and goals. It was always a question about to begin with, like, they just think of you remember, he said, I'm gonna have beta with my cabinet, and it's behind me, Steve and I have a milk carton and on the side, it says, Have you seen me as beta or work underneath it? Have you seen is he abducted by aliens? Did he you know, I, I there's a question of how much this is really a priority for the Biden administration. And I think this fight is going to make the Biden administration Probably even more reticent though although pilc refer to it, he'll give speeches, he'll be fine on that. But the idea of extending political capital to enact pro gun control stuff, I think, you know, what's the old saying Once bitten twice shy?

Stephen Gutowski  40:13  
I don't know. I mean, I think I just don't think he has the pool. Yet to get he didn't he didn't have the pull to get shipment through. There's no way that they're going to get any sort of gun control bill through the Senate right now. And so, he would do it if he could. And so that's why he's doing things like the executive orders to try and outlaw you know, pistol braces and redefined the what constitutes a firearm, then give the ATF broader powers. And then the other part of that was supposed to be David Shipman, who worked at the ATF and is paid gun control activists would Shepherd through a lot of these moves, where the President was using his power to unilaterally enact new regulations on guns in what the most expansive way he possibly could, under you know, without violating the federal law, though, is these these executive orders will probably be challenged in court, and it's not clear that they're going to, you know, stand up to that challenge. But I think it's interesting to see where this, this all goes, I just, I just don't see how he's gonna have an opportunity to appoint someone that would be worth it to him to appoint to the ATF. This is probably why there's so there's only been one confirmed director. It's not just that it's hard to get these guys confirmed. It's also like, there isn't that much payoff to it. Yeah. versus how much political capital you got to spend to do it, like, you know, sure, he could probably easily get the Act, the current Acting Director through you probably get a number of Republican votes on that, too. But what advantage does that bring him politically? Yeah, I mean, the agency a lot of agents would like and I confirmed director because he can, really, the main difference is that he can serve for a longer period of time and acting director can only serve a year at a time. And so they're constantly moving through the heads of this, this law enforcement agency, which is, you know, not great, not ideal. But most presidents want to get a guy that that's their guy in there. Rather than like, just take a career guy and make him the head because they want to leave their market they want to do they want to run their gun control agenda, or their gun, their agenda on guns generally, through the ATF by having a political appointee in there, that's going to be willing to work with them, and to, you know, fulfill their agenda. And if Biden can't get someone like that, through which it doesn't seem like he can, now, probably for the rest of his term, because the I doubt the rest of his first term, because I doubt that the midterms are going to go well enough to where it'll be easier for him to get someone like that through. So, you know, they say they're going to nominate someone else. But it's, it's just a question of like, who you're going to nominate, and why would their nomination go any better than chitlins? Did? And? I mean, maybe they find that Goldilocks candidate? Who knows we'll have to keep tuned in on it, but I think it's gonna be a stretch. And and then, you know, obviously, it's not guaranteed a second term. If he wins reelection and gets a bigger majority in the Senate, then. Yeah, all bets are off and different ballgame. Well, yes.

jim geraghty  43:43  
I promise me, I guess we probably should acknowledge that. You know, Joe Biden is getting up there and yours. doesn't like to give speeches at night. He wanders around the white house when he's on the lawn some time, you know, like you. So the idea that your Biden's getting up, you know, like the idea of Leo does Biden finishes Chris's first term. As much as I disagree with the man as much as I can't stand him as much as I've had real, vehement, passionate disagreements with the decisions he's made. I hope it lives to be 100. I hope he enjoys good health, but let's assume for the moment maybe it doesn't, and at some point, he has to step down. And we're dealing with President Kamala Harris. I do think that would be a I think it's probably much more likely that that'd be a the the symbolism of the issue be more important to her. And I could see her be making gun control even more focused. Just a higher priority in a Kamala Harris administration, just looking at her record for the Attorney General

Stephen Gutowski  44:36  
and stuff. I mean, maybe I kind of dummy Biden's whole career, he's definitely very dedicated to gun control. And obviously, he's very old. like Trump is very old. Apparently, all we can find to run for president, very old people.

jim geraghty  44:51  
You have to be in the cast of cocoon. If you were running for president now.

Stephen Gutowski  44:56  
You know, I think he'll probably I think it's helpful probably out. I don't know, who knows. You know, I don't see any signs that he's about to resolve anything like that,

jim geraghty  45:06  
but stay with us for five days ago. Good hanging off the plane.

Stephen Gutowski  45:10  
Yeah, sure. I know. He's, he makes gaffes just like Trump made gaffes. And, you know, Biden made does make gaffes his entire career.

jim geraghty  45:20  
It's really tough to get a baseline of normal behavior statements from Biden to better, which

Stephen Gutowski  45:25  
is true of a lot of politicians, especially our our current batch of very bombastic politicians that are popular now. They've long have said crazy, wacky things. And so it's kind of hard to tell when things are not right with them, because they're, they're always done. Crazy stuff. But anyway, like, yeah, I mean, Kamala, is she more committed to gun control than Biden? Maybe? I mean, publicly in her state of positions. Yeah. But I mean, I think that comes from the fact that she was a politician in California, and he was a politician in Delaware. And, you know, I don't know what her like heart what her true beliefs are, you know, at the core, I think Biden is pretty personally dedicated to the issue.

jim geraghty  46:10  
I guess the major I maybe it's a cosmetic difference. I can't see Carla Harris giving that stick shotgun out the window speech. Yeah, no. And pretending that she knows it gets along right with God. That's like, I like her laughing

Stephen Gutowski  46:25  
but you know, nonsense. Exactly. That advice is illegal. Yeah. But warning shots off into the air. That's like he's trying to be like with a gun. Oh, yeah.

jim geraghty  46:37  
I guess you guys. I know how you guys feel? Yeah. And I don't think Yeah, Harris.

Stephen Gutowski  46:41  
That never came off as Hey, Jacob.

jim geraghty  46:45  
I guess I'm saying like the differences that Kamala Harris doesn't feel the need to fake it. Man might Yes. And maybe that's, you know,

Stephen Gutowski  46:51  
maybe she ever if she ever won a race that mattered to him with a general election, you know, she never got that far. Attorney General in California, you don't exactly have to play to the middle to get that role.

jim geraghty  47:04  
I was guessing with a lot of Republicans campaigning to be attorney, pro chief prosecutor in San Francisco. You know, they're they're just notorious out there. Yeah. So

Stephen Gutowski  47:13  
like, I I just all I'm saying is, I wouldn't be surprised if, what the when, when Kamala runs for president whenever that's gonna be if she took a more centrist track than she did when she was running in the Democratic primary for the California Attorney General, you know. So yeah. Well, that's all speculation at this point. I what I want to talk about though, is, as well as to get back to the NRA and the situation that they're in because, yeah, we we went to the last annual meeting together, which happened to have been two years ago. Thanks to the pandemic

jim geraghty  47:53  
action. And earthquakes that that one, and yeah, little last one for God knows how many years but

Stephen Gutowski  47:59  
yeah, I know, you would not have thought that at the time, of course, but but it was a very eventful one, too. That was really the beginning of the public fight over the these allegations of corruption that have been levied against NRA executives, like CEO wayne lapierre and others. And we've got there's been some significant updates on that. Over the last week. One, you know, they had to cancel their annual meeting, which is where they have what's called the members meeting, which is what you're referring to, and in 2019, that was big. There's big blow up at that not not literal, but the fix up of like, a lot of members came in and were very upset with allegations that of misuse of funds by the NRA, as well by NRA executives, misuse of NRA funds for personal and luxury expenses, like private flights and suits and got trips, fancy vacations, you know, all this stuff to the tune of millions and millions of dollars over several decades. 10s of millions dollars really over over several decades, that have just broken in the New Yorker, I believe Mike spees, the reporter he had gotten leaked documents from the NRA Audit Committee and wrote a very explosive, again, figuratively explosive piece on on these allegations. And then news came that the New York Attorney General was investigating them and eventually she filed suit and is now attempting to dissolve them shut them down completely, which is a pretty shocking thing. You know, all sides of this are fairly shocking. would be very unusual thing for that if really the first time ever I think that something an organization the size of the NRA, with the political clout that it has to be shut down over even serious allegations of misconduct would be unprecedented really. Yeah. And, but so the members meeting happens at the annual meeting, the annual meeting just got canceled again, for the second time in a row, second year in a row, thanks to COVID. And now they've actually rescheduled it, they've announced they've told the board that it's going to happen. On October 2, in Charlotte, North Carolina, they haven't released a location yet, as of their, when we're recording this. podcasts. But so that's that's where members are actually supposed to be able to voice their, you know, opinions and feelings to the leadership. That's like the official venue for it. And they can offer resolutions. There was a resolution at the 2019 meeting, which basically was, the resolution was for the, for wayne lapierre in the audit committee and a number of other board members to be to resign, which, which created a lot of that controversy in the shouting match that happened, that, you know, we were both witnessed to. And so, this, now the annual meeting is cancelled. It's unlikely that a lot of members are going to show up for this met members meeting that they've rescheduled, you know, and having the announced like three weeks out. And then also, you have the Attorney General updating the brief in the case, where she makes a number of new allegations. Yeah, a lot of them came from testimony during the bankruptcy trial, the boy, there's a lot we

jim geraghty  51:42  
try to summarize, like two to three years worth of

Stephen Gutowski  51:45  
data, Ray tried to file bankruptcy to avoid the New York dissolution sued, it didn't work. But there was a lot of testimony in that case that was damaging towards the NRA, and its executives. And now a lot of that has been incorporated into a new brief in the New York case. And that's where we're at today. So do you want to maybe give your take on on what's coming from the like, what? The situation generally?

jim geraghty  52:14  
Yeah. So first of all, I want to say, Steven, I'm glad you're staying on top of this and covering this because this has been one of the before I was dealing with like mass death from pandemics and mass death in Afghanistan. I thought this was a depressing story. Now it looks cheery and happy by comparison. And I say that in the sense that like, you know what yet this was the skip. After Election Day 2020. The NRA looked like, I was like kings the world but like, you know, they just today 2016 parliament, yeah, that they had mobilized in those upper Midwest states for Donald Trump. Yes, women who were gun owners turned out to be a really key demographic. And you know, you because it was so close, you could point the finger to any organization and said, Yes, they were the boy that made the difference. But there was a really strong argument to say that the NRA had a big part

Stephen Gutowski  52:59  
in Donald Trump's winning, I mean, they were the first outside group to really back him and put money, but

jim geraghty  53:04  
there were a lot of conservative or right to center organizations that looked at Trump, they're like, Yeah, but in part, I think, you know, Donald Trump Jr. had a role of that he's Elizabeth, very active in hunting and gun control stuff. And in a general sense that, you know, for his, all of the flaws that Donald Trump has, I think he recognized that if he was going to be the Republican nominee, he had to be pro life. If he wanted to be the Republican nominee, he had to be pro gun. So any past statements he had made that were supportive of gun control, or stuff like that, forgotten, and that he was going to be their guy, and he was going to stand up for them. And we'll use the one in Louisville, where Trump just wasn't

Stephen Gutowski  53:41  
president to speak at the convention since Well, this

jim geraghty  53:44  
was the year 2016 this year, he was a candidate. And I was waiting for there to be some wariness or or that the crowd loved him from from, you know, the moment wants, so it was one of those things were like, you know, okay, we're gonna ride or die with this guy. And he won. And if wayne lapierre had decided he was going to retire in early 2017, he'd be remembered as a hero of the Second Amendment, and none of these controversies ever would have stuck. I think if you look at a lot of organizations become big and powerful, you can probably find some spending that is if that ends up being perks for the the top executives and stuff like that, that is debatable about whether it really is for the good of the organization, or whether it really should be counted as additional compensation. Because Oh, by the way, if it goes if your organization is spending it, you're not paying taxes on it. You're not paying taxes on that private jet and state office, the carbon compensated meals and the hotel stays and

Stephen Gutowski  54:42  
yes, would be a big issue. For wayne lapierre and others at some point, I would imagine wine after the civil case is settled.

jim geraghty  54:51  
Yeah. And here's the people like myself, and I'm going to be like, I looked at it and said, Well, this is really not justified. And unfortunately, I think there were just this quickly turned in this was completely misconstrued by two significant groups. The first were the number of like, either mainstream media, liberal media, everyone to characterize them who thought this was a gun issue. Actually, no, this is a lawyers and money issue this video that will send lawyers guns and money, that ultimately this was that I really had very little to do with actually gun rights, Second Amendment stuff like that. It was entirely what is a What is it appropriate expenditure for a national organization that is involved in a cause? And how much should it be spending on stuff that's the executive and the top level folks get to enjoy that is not easily clearly directed to the actual running of the organization. And was the National Rifle associations, finances, basically turning into a big money piggy bank or, you know, petty cash drawer for anything wayne lapierre and other folks wanted. And some of this ties into Ackerman McQueen, the number of the large public relations firm that was being spent, was creating an RT NRA TV. You know, there were a lot of questions. Why are we spending all this money on this? And what are we getting in return? And it was, I think a lot of these questions are really legitimate, unfortunately, with a minority of the board that really had a problem with it. And so as I said, the first group were the liberal media who didn't get it. And then there were people who saw this as Ah, the liberal media is going after wayne lapierre. Now a lot of cases the liberal media is going after wayne lapierre. But that doesn't mean wayne lapierre is always right. And that doesn't mean that the NRA top executives think by the last two years the signal to me that this was okay. This is really bad. This is really serious was when Chris Cox, the man who had been the head of the NRA is the legislative action, basically their chief lobbyist. And I thought Chris Cox plenty of times over the years, I think he's really good at his job. really knew Congress inside and out really knew every aspect of maximizing political pressure on lawmakers to make sure that they did the right thing in the eyes of the NRA. And Chris Cox walking away from the organization is kind of like Derek Jeter quitting the Yankees midseason, I tried to give them the right metaphor of you know, somebody who was really dedicated to the organization, seeing it as being full of problems not wanting to be associated anymore. And walking off and heading and doing something else was with his life was a kind of giant flashing red sign that this is bad. Unfortunately, reform has not come. I The other problem at all. That's because I've been critical of the liberal media. I've been critical of the nature defenders of wayne lapierre, the inner leadership. The other problem is that just James probably the worst possible person to lead to bring this lawsuit in part because before getting elected, she's characterized the NRA as a terrorist organization. Right now, I think that is an absurd and really, almost offensive form of hyperbole in light of the fact of what we've seen actual terrorists do people who think differently than you and believe the Constitution, Second Amendment means what it says like they're not terrorists, you can think they're wrong, you could think they're completely you know, you could argue the Second Amendment should be repealed. You can do whatever you want, but calling these people terrorism, but then the next thing is, is that, you know, Tish James had legitimate concerns about energy management fall in her lap, and now she's going after them and attempting to disband them. And a whole bunch of people at the NRA, who probably would want to hand wave away those bad expenditures can say, Tish, James is on a political vendetta. And for all intensive purposes, she might be this mystery, no particular heroes. Right? Like the sect of NRA someday exist and I don't know the prospects of that are particularly good right now.

Stephen Gutowski  58:47  
Yeah, things are things are pretty bleak right now for the legal situation for the NRA, I would say is a fair point to make especially you don't file bankruptcy for that's

jim geraghty  58:58  
that's a sign things aren't going your way. That's a strategy. Yeah. By the way, we're we're like a ton of donations usually came in, you know, yet 80,000 people attend most years, people signed up for lifetime memberships and all that kind of stuff. They usually got a very big cast and viewed cash infusion. And I think inflation to this only came eight days before it was supposed to occur, which was Yeah, kinda late. So

Stephen Gutowski  59:20  
that's been really bad for them to financially. But I do think you hit on a good point there about, you can look at each side of this situation and find excuses for whatever preconceived notions you have about the NRA or its leadership, or Tish, James, the Attorney General, New York or whoever, and just run with that one part of the story, and you'll have a piece of the truth to back you up, right. Yeah, Tish James is biased against the NRA. I think that's fair to say, but also there's serious misconduct that the NRA executives have already admitted to in the bankruptcy case and the wayne lapierre admitted to taking $400,000 worth of excess benefits. That's what he admitted to doing already. It won't

jim geraghty  1:00:12  
work for wilhelmsen he's still dressed as like an undertaker. You wonder where all that money was going? And that's all he came up with. Really? You know, I could have got that from a Will Smith movie. But,

Stephen Gutowski  1:00:24  
yes. You think he'd be able to come up with something like what you see at the Met? You know,

jim geraghty  1:00:29  
Derek, exactly, you know, the wacky side of wayne lapierre. Yeah.

Stephen Gutowski  1:00:33  
Okay, like money you're spending? Yeah, he gets something a little more flashy than a than a power suit. But anyway. And of course, those were bought by Ackerman McQueen, who you can look at the Ackerman McQueen and what they were doing and conclude that there were we're taking advantage of the NRA. And you can you could look from ackermans point of view and say that the NRA was, you know, okay with this when it was happening, they were doing it intently that this was an intentional thing, and that the NRA that they were providing, you know, a lot of what people know, as the NRA you know, the the ads, I am the NRA, Charlton Heston was that Ackerman McQueen product, you know, the NRA TV, a lot of the people that you like Dana lash and, and Callie Anwar and a lot of these guys who, and cam technically worked for Ackerman, not for the NRA. Based on how this stuff worked in, in practice. And so the thing is, you can look at this from any particular point of view, and find some piece of truth to back up whatever you want to believe about the situation. And I think it's important for people to try and take a more holistic view of the whole thing. And that's how I try to approach it and be be fair, but but non not compromising towards any of the parties involved. Because I think that's the most important thing for not only the public, generally, but the nra members themselves to be informed about what's happening. And to that point, I would encourage people to go and read the actual updated brief in the case that that James has filed for themselves, so they can at least get a full grasp of what the NRA is being accused of. Because it's it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. It's

jim geraghty  1:02:31  
this is made up or innocent misunderstandings or stuff like that every every organization needs somebody who's kind of kind of a jerk, kind of the, you know, the guy who's basically baseless, like, Can we afford it? And is this you know, worth spending money on it? Does this advance our core, our core mission? And if the answer is no, no, we can't do that. And as much as you don't like having that person, you need that person. And what it certainly sounds like is that there was nobody playing that role with the NRA to say, No, we can't afford that or no, that's not a good expect. You don't like no, you don't need a private jet. No, you can buy your own suits. No, you don't need to spend that much we don't need we like all the North but we don't need Ollie North do a version of his war stories show for Ackerman McQueen and get paid a million dollars. For someone godly song I remember exactly what it was. But it was one of those things like, yeah, okay, so a billion dollars for like nine episodes of a show or something like that. It's just ludicrous. expenditures could not justify as being in the best interest of the organization. And there was no watchdog, there was nobody around to say, we really shouldn't do that. That's just not a good way to spend numbers money. And the iron. The one of the more frustrating things that I think through this entire process is that the number of members who've been upset about how their money was spent. Steve, and I don't get the feeling. It's a big majority. I think that I think most members trust wayne lapierre, they trusted him for a very long time, they trusted all these guys. And they don't want to believe that their money was spent. That must have good reasons for all that stuff.

Stephen Gutowski  1:03:57  
And yeah, there's a lot. I will say that a lot of the members that I've that have spoken me about the situation, most of them are very unhappy. But you haven't seen that materialize in, you know, the board elections or things like that, although there's been a lot of issues raised with how the board elections work themselves and how the NRA operates internally. That's this is one of the main reasons why James argues that the whole group needs to be shut down rather than just, you know, reformed or have a few leaders executives. So but then obviously, you know, people should read the nras reply briefs in these cases to understand, you know, what the the arguments from the nras lawyers are as well, and be fair to both sides of the issue. But and obviously, we all keep reporting on what's going on. And I'm sure that we'll probably have more analysis from you that will be insightful as always on the issue, so people should keep up with that and if they do They want to keep up with what you're doing and your writing and your podcasting. Can you let us know how they can do that?

jim geraghty  1:05:07  
Sure. At Nashville review, go to the newsletters page. I write the morning jolt. Send it out every morning, Monday through Friday. Great newsletter. Yeah, thank you about 1500 words. Sometimes it's about a couple different topics. Sometimes it's just one big topic of the day. I also write national reviews corner or sometimes write pieces separately for them. And on Twitter, I am at Jim Garrity. Please be warned that you're going to politics Monday through Friday. And then on Sunday, you're just going to hear nonstop profanity about the New York Jets.

Stephen Gutowski  1:05:38  
That's one of the best reasons to follow and then you also do podcasts as well.

jim geraghty  1:05:41  
Yes. So once a day with Greg Columba's radio America, we do a podcast called the three Martini lunch. It's usually only about 15 to 25 minutes, we go through three topics of the day, we just try to have a good Martini, a bad Martini and a crazy Martini one item in the news that is good for conservatives. One that's bad news for conservatives have one that's just flat out crazy. We had a lot of bad and crazy lately, we've been good martinis have been few and far between the

Stephen Gutowski  1:06:06  
last five or six years I have. I

jim geraghty  1:06:09  
also do a pop culture podcast with Mickey white. Yes, we haven't taped one in a very long time. She's on a different work schedule. I've been crazy with stuff. But we do intend to get back to that. And that's kind of the lighter, fluffier. Hey, what's on Netflix? What are we enjoying? What's going on in the Marvel Universe? That sort of thing?

Stephen Gutowski  1:06:24  
Okay, I should we should, I'd love to call on that one too. By the way.

jim geraghty  1:06:27  
We've had a very select list of guests in part because we just never get around to it. But Steven, I will recommend you I think you have a good

Stephen Gutowski  1:06:34  
chance. Good. Good putting in a good word for me with the host, Phil. All right. Well, thank you again for coming on. And hopefully we'll have you back on again soon, anytime soon. Alright, that's it for this week's episode of the weekly reload podcast. Remember, if you buy a membership, you get an A day early, and access to a bunch of exclusive content on the reload calm, as well as our Sunday members only newsletter. So it's a pretty great deal. I think as you know, the founder of the reload, I would encourage you to buy the membership. We could not do this without our members. The reload is a 100% reader funded publication that is independent it does not have backing from any interest groups or big corporations or anything like that. So you guys are the ones who keep it going. But until next week, thank you for listening. I'll see I gave him poison just for fun. I had one friend. Now there's none. I'm a the devil Ryan broke some many bones but none of them. I was alone. I broke so many bones.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai