Speaker 1 Right about here, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to get yourself together. Chris I said, are you ready? It's time for the Chris and Andre Show. Andre Well, I'm glad that we get to hang out again. I messed up my ankle with my old man stuff. Chris So what did you do? Andre I have no idea, bro, I woke up yesterday and it was just hurting right, Chris yeah, Andre and I went to bed last night, and I tried out of bed this morning, and I was just in pain. My wife was like, when I got home yesterday, she was like, why are you walking? Like, I'm like, I don't know my ankles. So she bought me an ankle brace, and it was like magic, where I can actually walk with a halfway normal stride. So Chris Well, that's good. Andre Yeah, Chris I'm glad. I went and got my hair cut this week, and was talking to my barber, because my daughter's been getting a little bit back into skateboarding and rollerblading, because Carolina Beach, I've got a skate park right, like, a block from our house, which is pretty sweet. And he was like, oh, yeah, you want to buy a skateboard. I'll sell you mine for 100 bucks. It's like, practically brand new. And I was like, you don't want it anymore. He's like, No, I wrote it once, and I broke my ankle stepping. He was like, I would could literally see the skate park from where I was, and I just stepped off the board wrong and broke my ankle, and that was it. And I was like, I don't think I need that. Andre Yeah, we're gonna move on beyond that craziness, man. Like, there's a certain limit where you got to realize, Nah, you just might be getting old. Yeah? Just like, move on. Chris Exactly, yeah, I'm definitely reaching that point in my life, for sure. Andre I mean, I'm, I'm legit waking up with stuff like not working the way it worked, just like not even 12 hours before. So I am definitely there. Chris Yeah, Andre Apple's got a new CEO, John Turnus, which is, I think it's a, it's a good thing. Chris Yeah, you know, it's one of those. I think looking back when Tim Cook was announced as the new CEO and Steve Jobs was going to be stepping down, everybody panicked. It was like, oh my god, this is the end of Apple as we know it. And you know, you can love or hate some of what Tim Cook's done, but overall, like it's apple, has continued to be a successful company in his tenure and but I think that Turnus seems like the kind of guy that will run the company for what's best for the company and not chasing, you know, dollars left and right. Speaker 2 Well, Andre you got to remember Tim Cook, he had an IBM career. He's more of an ops guy, right? Logistics, not really like he does have an engineering background. And, you know, I think the upside is that turn is an engineer. He's focused on the hardware, so that kind of, you know, he knows what should be done and what couldn't be done and which things we can where we can move to. From my understanding, he was very pivotal in the M series launch and the neural engine. And if I'm being honest, the M series is what brought me back to Apple hardware, because I was on Linux for a while, because it just made sense. So if he continues with that same vein, I mean, who's to say? And I do agree with a lot of people that that were kind of on edge about Tim Cook being the CEO I was obviously, but he did a lot of good things, and I figure he's going to do the Jordan dip out when he's on top and not like falling apart. So Chris which was what I guess he had said, right when, when he kind of had talked about his retirement, that he was wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to wait until things start to go down and then I'm a bail. It was like, No, I'm going to, I want to hand it off in good condition to the next steward. You know, Andre yeah. And it looks like Turnus has been, like, driving a lot of their their heavy projects you mentioned, you sent an article about AI, and I think that kind of ties into what I think Turners will do for Apple, like their position has not been to and I think it actually makes sense now their position has not been to build another. A quote, unquote AI thing. And the article you sent actually really coincides with how I believe about it. Believe About AI. David gave had mentioned that. And here's a quote. Well, my thought is I'm skeptical of super intelligence and computing being something in the near term. But his quote is, human data is like a kind of fossil fuel that has provided amazing an amazing shortcut. You can also think of systems that learn for themselves as a renewable fuel, something that can just learn and learn and learn forever without limit. And a second quote which I grabbed out of that article was, I think of our mission as making first contact with super intelligence. By super intelligence, I mean really by superintendent. I really mean something incredible. It should discover new forms of science or technology or government or economics for itself. And that key part to me is for itself, Chris right? Andre So although we keep branding AI as AI, it's not that. It's just basically lowering the barrier to automation, which I believe is the core of what modern software creation is about. It's automation and efficiency, and that's cool. I don't have a problem with that as a developer, but I think that the misnomer is that AI is going to do more than what it can actually do, because it can't do it by itself. The purview of the software is limited to what llms have been able to provide over the last like 10 or 15 years. But what it's done is democratize and, again, lower the barrier for some people to get into what developers and architects have figured out a long time ago. It's which is efficiency and automation. Chris Yeah, no, I thought it was really interesting, the idea that Apple has kind of been gearing their hardware to run localized versions of some of these, like the type of llms Speaker 3 Apple, on the other hand, seems to be going down the more local hardware route. Their Mac and MacBook Pro range offer massive amounts of unified memory, sometimes surpassing over 100 gigabytes. That means ever more larger language models can be run locally on your device. Importantly, without needing the internet, Chris you're not tapping into a network, and you're not feeding all of your data and inputs into it in order to improve it. It's more like you can basically, kind of mold your own LLM at a local level. And I thought it was really interesting, because I was doing something, or we were driving in the car yesterday, and my oldest daughter has been really intrigued by the Corvettes that she sees the modern Corvettes on the road. And so she was asking. She was like, how Andre much Chris they are. They're a great looking car. And so she was like, Well, how much is one of those costs? I was like, honestly, I don't even know what honestly, I don't even know what they charge, but those, let's ask, you know. And so we're driving. And so I asked Siri, and she was like, I can't actually do that for you, but there I could look that up with chat GPT. So they basically have a way that you can authorize chat GPT to then basically fetch answers for you through Siri and I had not heard about this partnership that they'd had. You know, Andre you're, you've been, you're a year late, Chris yeah, oh yeah, easily, Andre yeah. But not watching deputies WWDC, like I am then. So yes, Chris deaf, definitely, Andre I'm sorry, Chris no, it's okay. I mean, I'm not a big chat GPT, like aI LLM user as it is. And so even when that popped up, I was like, No, I'm good. I'm really not trying to help Sam Altman in any way that I can but I do think that it reinforced, especially after we had just talked about this idea of Apple's approach to AI like that, you know, they saw this as a better path forward for now, doing this partnership with chat GPT, as opposed to trying to build, you know, an AI version of Siri, essentially, Andre well, and this is not it's the the technology that that runs llms And these models way outside of my scope of like understanding the nitty gritty, but the general parts, I do understand it's it's not, and I say this from actually have a couple of models running on one of my servers, right? And so I tinker with it. Still not something I want to invest a lot of time in understanding the what. Wise and house for the compute needed for these models, like if you really think about it, it's not a lot. It's when you try to do the really scientific workloads, that's when it becomes the power consumption, when you're trying to turn it into a commodity. That's when you need data centers. So Apple's like they're dead on. You know, you don't. The problem is that we're trying to make it a product to sell, and I don't think that's going to, long term, be the final product? Yeah, it's Chris a it's a stepping stone for what I think a lot of people are hoping AI becomes, right, which is this sort of, like generative, super intelligence type of thing. I don't know how much I really want that personally, Andre like, it's not a near future thing. I really don't believe it is. I think that it's, it's wishful thinking and a lot of hype that makes that the conversation. And I kind of, I agree with Apple's approach of, yeah, I'll just use the, you know, I'll use chat gpts resource. So open AI is resource. I use claude's resources, but it's not something they should invest in. Yeah, Chris I thought it was funny. I think you had sent the video that was talking about John turn us being announced as the Apple CEO, and they were talking in the video about, like, some of the projects he'd worked on that were not super successful. And they they talked about the touch bar, which I kind of laughed at because, yes, like, it didn't last. It wasn't a horrible idea, right? Like, I there, there was some thought behind it. It wasn't just like, Let's slap this on here, like there. I understood the idea of having, like, a, you know, an adjustable control bar, basically that where you can change it for different things. But I think the actual just usefulness of that type of thing wasn't what they expected. But go ahead, Andre the stream deck is the the obvious evolution of that idea, right? So it's like the little box where you can put little widgets on it to launch applications. I see a lot of people that do graphic design use them. Some podcasters or streamers use them. So I think the idea itself was a good product. It just wasn't the right thing. Chris Yeah, exactly, yeah. And the other thing that I did, thought that I picked up from that video, that I thought was really interesting, was that was him being so adamant about the potential for the iPad, and that, Andre right, Chris basically, having it be an oversized iPhone was a horrible plan forward, and that they needed to take it seriously and kind of build the hardware capabilities and then the software to match it to create what it is today. You know, Andre I look, I think that if you're to, if you're to take Steve Jobs and separate them into two people, you probably have their outgoing CEO and Chris their incoming CEO, Andre their incoming CEO. Yeah, and no knocks to Johnny i but they'll figure out design like, I think a lot of the design language that Apple uses not to discredit Johnny Ives vision, because he's like a, you know, I don't, for lack of a better word, a genius at industrial design, because he gets it. And I think it takes a certain talent to do that, but I'm sure there's enough people at Apple that can carry that forward. Chris I agree Andre with the iPhone air. I believe it's called, I mean, that's, that's a Johnny I wish type of thing, and it seems to be doing well Chris on the new the MacBook Andre Neo, right? So making apple still a premium product, which I believe it is, and make, but also making it more accessible, I think that they need to figure that part out, too. So I'm generally pleased with what they're doing in that aspect and the future of the company. I mean, I've been an Apple user for a really, really long time, and I remember when they went bankrupt, when they had clones and all this other stuff. And somehow. They seem to keep figuring it out, and their staying power has surpassed, you know, the worst case scenario that people throw at it. So, Chris yeah, I mean, it really even looking back at, like, the early days, you know, Steve Jobs and whatnot, that was a company that I feel like maybe it's somewhat revisionist history, but at least from what I've read and watched that it, a lot of people didn't think that it stood a chance against the IBM's and some of the other, you know, big players in personal computing at the time. Andre Oh, that's not true. Speaker 4 At no point in your rambling, incoherent response Were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought? Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to Andre it. That says so there was Silicon Graphics had, I mean, they cornered the market, and like designs, like computers and things all these, like the high powered computing stuff, went to Silicon Graphics. I remember, when I was younger, I had a friend of mine. His dad was some type of scientist. Speaker 5 You know, I'm something of a scientist myself, Andre and he just bought a new Silicon Graphics desktop. It cost like, $25,000 something unheard of, right? Chris Yeah, Andre but it was cool. This is my closet nerd day. So no. People didn't really know is into, like, geeky stuff like that. But Apple's problem was they were in the middle of silicon graphics and the the IBM clones, in my opinion, and they became like a so focused on a particular market being designers, that they kind of forgot that other people could use the computers and Gil Amelio, I was like, was the CEO that actually kind of led them down this whole clone strategy of getting, you know, to increase market share. I think, I think it would have worked. But they had just, if I remember this correctly, they just, they were trying to figure out their next operating system, and they were dealing with Steve Jobs through Pixar ish, and then somehow he came back and he was going to bring next OS to be their next OS, because the 86 platform started to show its its age, the power PC chip was like lights and, you know, just leaps and bounds ahead of the 86 architecture. But Motorola and IPM couldn't get it to go fast enough. So that was kind of like it was just this perfect storm of all the you know, to bring in it, bring back Steve, to kind of give the company a better path forward. And so maybe it's not, it's not really revisionist, like history, but it's there were a lot of things that happened during that time where they, they kicked Steve out, he somehow got back in and it was just the perfect, you know, perfect storm, to get Chris everything lined up just right for them to be able to take advantage Like they did, Andre right? And Chris when I say revision is history, I'm speaking mostly about, like the drama, dramatizations of, well, I Speaker 6 was just a dramatization is dramatization, Chris these stories that have been told over and over again now, you know, like the all the different Apple movies and the Made for TV movies and stuff like that. It's all, Speaker 4 you know, IBM, you're gonna want all our stuff, Speaker 7 IBM. IBM, their history, Andre yeah, that's fair. And the, I mean, the life. I mean, some people say that Microsoft losing that case was a lifeline. I think they would have figured it Chris out. Andre Because if you look at the Mac OS and Windows like today, one company obviously had a path forward, the other one just kind of, you know, runs around in circles, chasing its own tail. Chris Yeah. I mean, seven years ago, when I started this job, I made the mistake of not asking whether or not I had a chance a choice between Mac and Windows. And like, everybody was using Windows, so I just went with a Windows machine, and I hated it for like, the three years that I used it. It was just the bane of my freaking existence. And it wasn't like it was a Lenovo, and it wasn't like the quality. Of the hardware or anything like that. It was just none of it worked, right? You have windows in particular, you know, it was like, almost every day that I would show up and try to print something, it would show that the printer was connected, the printer is on, but my computer would not communicate with the printer. And every time I'd be like, you know, it'd be like, Oh, the printer's busy. The printer is offline. I'm like, but it's not, it's right here, I can see it. It's online, like, Andre the lights are on, Chris Yeah, seriously, oh, just drove me crazy. Andre Yeah. So I, I could, like, talk about this topic all day. Chris It's great, though, that's thank you for the history lesson there, because that's very helpful in understanding, like, the actual backstory of all of this. Andre Yeah, I think that Apple they had, I was excited about the before the first version of Mac OS 10 was supposedly going to be next OS, basically. And if you look at the how the the Swift like language is, you'll still see NS object. So that's next step, basically. So Chris I get Andre to go back all the time, mentally going, Oh, this. I know where this came from. So so there's a lot of like, I don't think. I think Apple, for a time, was just lost and there was pressure from Comp. This Speaker 8 is the Compaq Presario, 5000 T with one touch Internet access that for just 899 lets your family see the whole world wider Andre HP you've got Dell was a start, like a running away would suck. Oh, Chris dude, you're getting in Dell, easy to buy, easy to own, easy as Dell. Andre Gateway was a thing. I needed Speaker 9 a high performance machine, and that's what I got. Speaker 10 And they were great. I felt comfortable right away. Great Big boxes with like a cow Speaker 11 gateway computers feature, the Intel Pentium processor. Chris I had a Compaq that was our first, like internet connected home PC. No, no, I'm sorry it was an Acer was the first one. The compact was the second one we got when we moved here. Yeah, I remember going to, I wasn't Circuit City, but some giant electronic store, and buying that computer. And, like, the excitement, I played Doom two, I played castles two, yeah, it was, we had AOL, like, those were the days, man, Andre yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, I remember the first Mac I bought, and it was like 93 or 94 and I, I remember saying, I will never use Windows again. Like it was like, I will never use Windows again. It was just such a different experience. Chris It's funny, Andre yeah, it's wild, but that was my and I think it was because I I hooked up a printer and it just worked. I was like, and my favorite operating system used to be Windows. NT. So like, I when I you're a nerd, Speaker 2 yeah. Chris NT is such a nerdy thing to have that be your favorite version of Windows? I'm sorry. I mean, like, NT was a great platform. Don't get me wrong. Andre It worked, Chris but it worked. It worked, yeah, and that was the whole Speaker 12 thing. Andre Was solid. It worked. And I was like, Yeah, and I don't know, I don't remember why, or I do remember, well, I was influenced to buy the Mac, because when I was at the computer store, there was a Windows computer that had the blue screen of death. Chris That was all you needed. Andre Well, yeah, my my ex wife was like, You should I don't like that. And I was like, Okay, what about and we just happened there was a Mac or an apple. I don't know what model was, right next to it. She goes, let's buy that one. And I was like, Okay, I'm thinking computers are computers, right? And I didn't realize the true difference between Windows and a Mac, yeah, but yeah, the Mac economy or the Apple economy, the developer economy. I ran across this interesting article talking about how App Store ratings are broken as your four star review could hurt a developer. Chris Yeah, Andre no. Truer. Words have been said before, Chris and this is something that you experience on a personal level, because you have several apps now that you have. I put up in the App Store, and so I was reading that. And it's interesting, because, you know, when you think about the star rating systems, which is pretty prevalent, and a lot of what we do these days, right, reviews and all of that stuff, four star is not bad at a five, right? Like, that's usually like, hey, it was pretty good. Or, you know, it was overall good. But there was this one thing that I didn't love, but still, like, worth it, not, you know, well, Andre so, all right, tell me how you see the star system, because I think I see it a different way than you Chris Okay? I guess so. In the article, it talked about, like you said, right, that the four star and basically anything below that is a negative, is considered negative in the eyes of Apple, right? Right? Then, why are there multiple stars instead of just it's good or it's bad? Like, thumbs up, thumbs down. Why do I need four different levels of bad? I don't really understand that if there's only one rating for good, right? In my mind, three is average, right? Like It, it, it's an average app. It functions, okay, it's not great. It's not terrible. Andre In your mind, three is an average Chris mean between one and five. Yeah, Andre that's sure, mathematically, yes, but so, all right, so the reason, oh, go Chris ahead. Andre Okay, so this is, I agree with there's a section, and maybe we can put this, like later as a clip. Three is a default rating. That is the default rating as the app performed as expected, right? What's on the label? It does that, boom, right? Four is like, wow, that's really cool. Five is like, Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah. And everybody Chris needs to download this, Andre right? I but I think that people why? Number one, if people see the ratings like you do, then that's part of the problem, right? Absolutely, yeah. So I think that's terrible. And then secondly, it is the algorithm. So I used to spend a lot of time like looking at the rating every day, like I would wake up in the morning and go to the, you know, especially Apple app store and look at my rating to see if it went up or Chris down. Andre Yeah, I think I was driving myself crazy, Chris probably a little Andre bit. I was able to maintain like a 4.2 for a period of time. But then you have the people that just, you know, for whatever reason, they rate you a two or a one, and that's not fair. I mean, I know Chris we call those people haters. Speaker 12 Give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater, Andre right? Chris I call those people haters. Andre And you know, I get, you know, I've had a couple reviews where it's like, you know, people obviously didn't read the instructions, or they didn't, you know, and they kind of hurt your business. And I will, it's very demotivating to do that. I mean, I would Chris imagine, Andre as a business owner like my intent is not to publish bad software. I have a support forum. I answer every email. I answered two emails just yesterday or over the last couple of days, and I help people troubleshoot. You know, I respond to every review, but I've gone to a point now I'm going to respond to those at a certain time, because to reduce my own level of anxiety, but I think Apple probably needs to do something with their rating system, because I don't think it's giving the benefit of I don't think it's helping the developers, and I also think it may be misleading to people or potential users of your application well, Chris and so that was going to be my question, because I don't remember the last time that I really I mean, okay, couple of things I don't know that Apple does or does not provide an overview of how the user, the end user, is supposed to use the star rating system. I don't remember whether or not that's something right, which they should if that's going to be a significant portion of what determines the popular like what apps get shown and stuff like that, right? I mean, I would think you would want to explain to the people who are ultimately providing these ratings, what these. Ratings mean and how they are used. Andre What, and Chris if Apple isn't doing that, Andre yeah, well, then what would be the benefit to Apple for doing that? Chris Okay, if I'm, I mean, we, we just talked about a little bit, right? My understanding of the star rating system is like, three is average. Four is a little bit better. Five is, you know, killer in Apple's world, it seems like five is, it's good. Four and below is. It didn't do what I expected it to do, right? It fell short in some it's, I mean, look, Rick Ross had the idea of the suck o meter because he believed that developers always look at whether or not how much something sucks. It's never good. It's just, does it not suck so much that I want to kill myself every time I have to use it right? Andre But that's flamboyant shit like that, Chris yes, but, but I think there is an element of that that you know, like you said, someone who downloads the app and doesn't read the documentation struggles because of that and then leaves a one or two star review being like, I couldn't get it to work. That wasn't the app's problem. That was your problem, right? And what is, as the developer, what is your, you know, recourse, your ability to respond to that? Andre Can I tell you something? Yeah, I almost almost said it earlier, but it's kind of embarrassing. So I got a review from Brazil that was, like, a one star, or some crap like that, and something, I had to translate what I did. I pulled the app from Brazil. I was like, You know what? Brazil, I don't got time for your shit. Chris That's some petty ass shit, but I love it. Stay salty. Andre I was truly, truly upset for like, 12 hours, and then I kind of, you know, regained my senses and put it back into the Brazilian App Store. But I was pissed, Chris understandably. So, can I share something that I think kind of an analogy and in my world, that I think aligns with this? So YouTube, right? We publish all this stuff on YouTube. I used to get really upset when I would find out that people had down, you know, thumbs down our shorts, or videos and stuff like that, and I'd be like, the fuck, like, Speaker 13 what are we doing? What's going on? If Chris you don't like it, just move on. But I realized that what that's really is, is that is the end user telling YouTube I don't want to see more of this. It's not necessarily like, I didn't like this or it's bad content. Is just I don't want this in my feed, because that's how I use it a lot of the times now, where I'm like, I realized, like, Oh, if I vote this down enough, eventually YouTube will stop showing it, Andre no or, or you could actually use the platform as intended. I say, don't recommend this channel, or I don't like this. Speaker 2 You Chris can do that too. Andre Yeah. So I so I don't disagree, and I think feedback is important, right? Chris But I say that because it took me learning right a little bit that, like you said, I I get obsessed with the numbers on our podcast channel, right on the on the our YouTube channel sometimes where I'm like, why? When I published so for like, three weeks ago, I we, I started publishing my vinyl stuff again, like a while ago, was doing really good, and then all of a sudden, I had like, four shorts in a row that I published, that none of them eclipsed 300 views I had been doing. We'd been doing 15, 1600 views on almost every single one of them. It's like, what the fuck like, this is the same content. It's like, yeah, it's a different artist. Okay, maybe they're not quite as popular, but and then, like, today, I published one, and within the first, like, four hours, it had 1500 views. And then it just plateaus, because Google, or, you know, YouTube, Google, is like, Oh, we're gonna give you a little break. It's like, but why? Like, why? If I'm doing good. Why are you punishing me now? Andre So, okay, so I Chris kind of, kind of went off on a tangent there. What I really meant to say was, I understand. Andre I think, you know, yours are Chris the Andre two things are related, right? You put something out there. Now, we do this podcast and we record because we want to talk to each other, and it's, we're not trying to make money out of this, like, to be quite honest, Chris but we do. I mean, I get, Andre we do get, yeah, we do want to give. We want to share things that people enjoy. Chris Yeah, and it makes me feel, I get a positive feeling when people positively engage with our content. Speaker 2 Yeah. Andre Yeah, as do I, but my company, I'm trying to make money. Yes, yeah, no, totally trying to make money. And I think there's a Okay, so to continue on to actually, I'm sorry, prompted me to to share this article was that I have a product that I launch. I'm doing it outside of the Apple Store and outside of the the app stores in general, because I don't want to be that dependent on what Apple or Google says, because I see that as a detriment, and especially since they keep raising the developer fees. So I just re opt on my app store access for Apple. No, that's on the fifth of this month of May, and they're taking like, 30% out of everything I sell. So it's like, okay, well, don't penalize me for if you're going to continue taking money Speaker 2 from me, Andre you've got to make sure that you're not penalizing me for everything else, like the ratings thing has got to be fair. Chris Yeah. Andre Now the the the fee that they charge, I understand it, because I have exposure to the entire Apple user base I get, yeah, that's not sure they they sign the application for security. All those things are great, Chris yeah, Andre but I went from 25 or 27% to 30 ish percent because the app has grown in popularity and I'm making money. But I think that this part, the ratings part, is kind of unfair to developers. So what I will probably continue to do with my other things I produce is not depend on Apple so much, not depend on Google so much because I, you know, I'm trying to run a business. I'm not trying to develop bad software. I'm not trying. There's a lot of things I'm not trying to do, but I feel like you get penalized for just having access to a user base, and it's a contradiction, because I, you know, I like the access, right? I also think that the ground rules should be fair, Chris yeah, and I think that that is a recurring theme across platforms these days, right? It's the the lack of insight into algorithms and how it's kind of promoting stuff in some cases, right? It's penalizing you for doing better, for selling more of your app. So now we're going to start taking more of your money. You know, it's it's the the unclear review system that kind of provides users with an out and like an overweighted ability to influence your app performance. Yeah, exactly. And it comes back to the thing that we've talked about for seven years now, since we started doing this podcast, build your own platform like you can't rely on somebody else's platform to be the thing that gets you to where you want to go. You can use it to build to that, right? But it's like, you know, people on Etsy, I feel like a lot of the times where, yes, you have access to this huge platform, but if it were me, I'd build a little bit of an audience there, and then do everything I can to shoot, to move people over to my personal website where I'm selling stuff, and then grow that Andre you're exactly right. And so the thing that we talk about all the time, that's what I'm doing. So I use one product to develop name recognition, blah, blah, blah. And if you're a developer out there, I'll tell you, this is my formula. Use an app store like put one out there. Great. Build a website. Brand your website. Build your own landing pages. Write blog posts about your products, so that way you can not be so dependent on what's happening with Google or Apple in the long run, and it may take a little bit longer to build the traffic that you're getting from these platforms. So you sacrifice one application to get to where you need to go long term. And my wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. She's like, how's the second launch going? It's going slower, but I kind of knew that, because my goal is to, number one, not be dependent on Apple or Google, and number two, it helps me to control my pricing. And so this is a second part. I hate subscriptions, and if. Things I launch, I think subscriptions only make sense when you have server costs or ongoing operating expenses, right? I'm a big advocate of perpetual licenses. So here's a one time price free updates until we go to another version. You can upgrade or not, but the previous version doesn't go by. I think that makes more sense than like the subscription thing, because I don't think long term that's sustainable. And unless I have operating expenses, like I'm going to look at, you know, how do I price this to where it makes sense? Is it something I would pay for and not nickel and dime? People like, I've seen apps that that it's like $3 a month for something that there's no server costs, and I don't want to call the app out, but it kind of pisses me off, because it's like, it's based on how many, how much. Well, I won't then, that's pretty much calling out, Chris but they they're looking at it as how much are people willing to pay? Right in a lot of ways, like, what's the maximum amount that we can charge somebody for this product that we're putting out, whether it's good or not? And I think, you know, as an individual developer, you're looking at it from a much different perspective. I think you come at it from the perspective of, there's a problem that I experience. Other people probably experience this too. I want to try and make a tool, right? Maybe it's even something where it's like, I'm developing this primarily for myself, right? I think, like, one of your your first projects, was kind of like that, where it was like, No, I just this doesn't exist in the market. I want to make it for me. And then you recognize the potential for that in in the market, which is great, and that's how it should be. It should be, there's a there's a problem. I have a solution, Speaker 14 and Chris I'm going to charge what's reasonable for people to solve that problem and for me to cover my costs. Andre And that's, it's, it's, if you're a developer out there and you're looking to become an indie developer, that's, I would tell you, stop trying to make AI, this AI that nobody wants that. Like, it's just fine. Like, really solve a problem, price it fairly and put it out there. Not everything's a unicorn, but I can tell you this, let me, let me say this like again, very succinctly, and I'll probably write a blog post about this later on, fix a real problem, don't create, you know, something that doesn't really, it's not really a problem. Price it right. Build a website like literally, not just a BS landing page, but build it like an actually, make it a think. Build your content strategy. Write about it so people can understand it, so Google can search, you know, see it and people go to you. That's what's happening. That's what's working for me, don't depend so much on like you may. For the first product, you may need to use one of either Google store or Apple Store. Okay, that's great, but if you want a long term strategy, you want to probably build another application that's without that, but you've already built a structure to build upon. Yeah, and everything's not a subscription. That is, like the dumbest fucking thing in the last like three years. If I see one more fucking app that's a subscription, a note app, it's a fucking subscription. Are you kidding me? Pants, Chris pants that are subscriptions. Now, Andre everything's on a subscription. We got, we like that is not sustainable, Speaker 2 but Chris it's, it's the monthly recurring revenue, right? I mean, we went through this at D zone, where is the same stuff, so Well, we got to have this monthly recurring revenue. Because if you, if you can show that every month, you're going to have this money coming in. And it's pretty much guarantee, which it's not guaranteed. It's not like that money disappears the moment that people cancel their subscription, or whatever, or the second the contract expires. Like that just doesn't make any sense. But the way they look, ours monthly recurring revenue, that's a great figure, and everybody loves that, because that's how much money we bring in every month. It's like, Andre well, MRR is fleeting, right? Yeah, I just, I'm just so I, the reason I don't advertise things I build is because I think that shady, honest with you, but I am so open to telling people what works for me and most of it may work for you. Uh, and I want people, especially developers and creatives, to, like, get out of the fucking grind. I mean, like, yeah. I mean, get out of the grind it takes, it takes time to build a business. But I will be, I will share this one thing, 2025 was the first year that my company was completely self funded, but I put in the work. I wasn't looking for the next trendy app to build, and it was the first year like I didn't personally have to fund my own bills and what that's, you know, getting away from client work and all the other things that I've done, but last year was the first year that it was funded by itself. So I believe it can be done. It may not be, you know, may not be the same, like end result, but I think the the fundamentals are still there. I mean, we gotta it's possible. I you know, it's just, Speaker 2 it's Chris absolutely possible, and it it's possible that you can start that process while you are working for somebody else, right? You don't. It isn't something where you have to quit your job to go home and start coding your app, right? Like, take the 30 to 60 minutes that you can find in a day, or, you know, four or five times a week, and write that next little bit. Right? It's that iterative process there that gets you to that first step, and then once you feel comfortable and more confident, then you can take that leap when you're ready. But I feel like it's, it's, people feel like it's, it's, it's a zero sum game in that regard, where it's like, well, I either spend all my time working for somebody else, or I have to take all of the risk and responsibility on myself right off the bat. And it's like, no, there's an in between ground there, where, if you are able to manage, you know, your time and your and everything properly. You can do this like that possibility exists. Andre And I'll I don't disagree that all, and I'll tell you that one time I did do that, it was oh eight and oh nine when I was a realtor. Yeah, I lost a lot of money. Chris Bad time to get into real estate. But I feel like something was happening in the country around that time that might have even been directly related to real estate to some degree, I'm not sure, but Andre bloodbath. But I am very passionate about the fact that, and I think that developers can do it. I think that I believe if you're if what you do is through technology, whether that be graphic design, whether that be because I'm, at some point I'm going to hire a designer like and I know I just because I'm not a designer. At some point I'm going to hire a UX person, because I'm not, that's not me. At some point, Chris and I will figure out a way to hire an editor, because it's just not so I believe that people that have those Chris I'm shaking my head, no, not because I don't want to do that, but because I can't wait for that day to come. I love I do like I love that the process of editing episodes. It is an enjoyable experience for me, but I feel guilty sometimes because I don't always have I don't always dedicate that the time to I'm sitting here telling people like, find the time in your day, 30 to 60 minutes to start your own developer career. And I'm like, I can't edit a fucking podcast episode. Do as I say, not as I do people, Andre but again, to like, but we're not doing this to like, pay our mortgage, right? This Chris is true. Yes, that's right. This is a a labor of love, Speaker 2 yeah, Andre so we pay for everything out of out of our pocket. We, you know, we, you know, we have skills that allow us to do this. And so it's different. But for me, software is like, that's where I'll probably spend the rest of my working life doing is writing software. So I want to be good at it. And I will say that there are particular skills like, you know, insert Leslie. Speaker 9 I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, Skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like Chris you. Yeah, I was just gonna say the Liam Neeson, Andre which Chris is okay that you said Leslie Nielsen, because Liam Neeson played Andre gun. Chris Yes, Andre yeah. So my brain, like, did the whole thing. But there are certain sets of skills that they're not duplicatable right now, and you can't replace them with, like, without having somebody with the creative. The capacity to do them. Software is still a creative skill. I've seen some of the shit that people put out there. It's not good and but I, I would just, I'm just saying, like, yeah. So back to what, where this originally started. I think that Apple should figure out a way to make the level the playing field for especially small developers, like, if you want to keep fighting with epic over fucking Fortnite, have Sure, I don't Chris care, all day, right? But you would think that Apple would really, I mean, because, yeah, I would think you would have a much lower percentage for those entry level developers, like, right people who don't have a lot of apps on the store, we're going to take 10% you know, 15% something like that, and then, yeah, as you grow, maybe you get into larger tiers and stuff, or you have to pay a little bit more because of your exposure and what Apple's doing to help support some of that. But, yeah, I mean, like, right off the bat, Apple ain't doing shit for you personally, other than again, access to the store, which is worth something. Andre It's valuable, Chris but is it worth 30% of every sale? Speaker 2 Fuck, I Chris don't know. You know, you're going to be fine. My local government is apparently several million dollars short on the upcoming budget, and are proposing a three and a half cent tax, property tax increase, Andre a lot, bro, Chris it is a lot. And they're also talking about utility cost increases for trash and water and all that. Yep, yeah, they're gonna fuck us bad. Andre I'll say this. The good thing is that I didn't know that Carolina Beach provided utilities, which is a good thing, because it could be higher, yeah, so that's kind of a plus. So that means it is probably have not raised utility rates for at least three to five years, I would guess, Chris yeah. I'd say that's probably right, yeah. Andre So they were doing a nice thing that becomes a disservice later on down the road, but you can't really assume that you know when Duke is going to keep looking to increase rates. I will say I read that article and the funniest, not funny, the obvious thing to me was they got scammed by a cyber security loss of 430, $5,000 but they don't really say what they did to mitigate some of that loss, Chris none of it. I mean, supposedly, what they basically did was they froze hirings for this year or last year. Basically, like, we didn't hire people we wanted to, because we lost all this money. And then there were, like, a couple of other projects that they said, like, re redesigning the town hall parking lot, which, it's not great, but it's not terrible. Like, I'm glad that they didn't spend money doing that right now. But yeah, I mean, it's one of those where it's like, well, somebody in our orbit screwed up, and now the whole town has to pay for it, which, I mean, I get, like, where else is the money going to come from? It's not like, you know, it's a half a million dollars. It's not nothing. I get that, but, Andre but, but you got, they're coming short. Like, pretty big, though. So then the the question, yeah, like, the other question I would ask the town council is, like, so you're kind of not gonna hire people. Okay? I can't imagine their salaries, although they try to present it as 50% of the, Chris yeah, the $3.4 million budget. Andre I was kind of confused by that. I was like, You're I was a little Chris bit too now, I mean, they've got services like, Andre hold on. Chris I understood it as 50% of the town's budget Andre is going to employees, is Chris going to employee salaries. Yeah, Andre that doesn't, I can't. I don't think that's true. Chris They're spending almost $2 million a year in employee salaries. Andre I don't think that's true. Chris I find that a little hard to believe as well, but I don't I'd have to, you know what? I'm gonna walk over to the town hall when I'm done here demand nothing at all, because they're already Andre it's a, it's a, you can ask for public records. I mean, it's a public Chris yeah, oh yeah, no. It would be. It would be interesting, though, to see what, what that percentage actually looks like, and how that's kind of divvied up. I mean, we've got, you know, we've got fire and police, they've got the life guards that they pay for in the summer. That may be part of Speaker 2 that Andre number is wrong. I think it's like 20. Their budgets, their general fund, is $24.9 million so I think you're, oh, okay, one. Um, so I think one number is wrong. Let me double. Chris I'm a I'm a factor of 10 off here. Andre Yeah, the town's general fund is expected to be $27.4 million Chris Oh, yeah, okay. Andre And with, Okay, up 3.3 point 4 million since last year, with wages and benefits making 50% of it. So I would assume the 50% is Chris the 3.4 million that's increased or the total. I mean, shit, that's what 14 million. Andre Yeah, and I don't think that's true, because that would mean you guys have a lot of city employees, yeah. So my we're Chris not a very big town, Andre right? So my argument would be like, okay, inflation's a thing. I get that, and that's affecting a lot of places, Chris yeah, Andre but you got to give me more than that for this article, because somebody published this, somebody was asked questions, and there should be more follow up questions Chris there absolutely should the article really, I mean, Andre it's a puff piece. Chris It is definitely a puff piece. There weren't a lot of challenging questions that were asked in that and it doesn't really surprise me. I mean, there's not a lot of pushback here. In general. There's a lot of people that complain about what the town council and the mayor do in Carolina Beach, but there's not, I don't think there's a real concerted effort to change anything about it, you know? I mean, it's like, every once in a while, you'll get somebody local that'll be like, I'm gonna run for office, and Andre then they Chris get on the board and they do the same thing that everybody else does. Andre There is a clip from House of the dragon, season one, episode nine, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make that clip and send it to you so we can, every time I want to say it, you can just put it Speaker 2 in Chris there. Okay, Speaker 15 there is no power. But what the people allow you to take? Andre They only have the power that we give them. Speaker 4 Yes, Andre absolutely yes. And we have to really stop abdicating like the the authority of like, what these people can do. I think it's just, I think it's just really weird to me. It's this, it's a puff piece. It's almost like a we want to get in front of this article. Chris Yes, 100% this is we need to drop the bomb in a way that doesn't make it seem like it's our fault, Andre no, or we don't want it. We don't want to be on the news, or like we're hiding it from people. I sure think, I don't think this is, like, the type of investigative reporting, or like, Chris oh, it's not. I mean, Port City daily is primarily puff pieces, which I believe that was where that that one came from. We used to have a couple of other decent newspapers in the area, but like most towns, you know, they're they've all gone belly up or gotten bought up by other entities and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I don't know. I guess it's up to the Chris and Andre show to investigate and find out what's going on. Andre I mean, like, I'm really into we've made a an agreement not to talk about national politics, because it's depressing. But I think part of the solutions that we're looking for are, they come from our our lake, state and local, yeah, and primarily local then state, because the people that end up at our state legislator are their bench is local, Chris yes. Andre And most of these people are clowns. I'm sorry, like, I Chris just know. I mean, you're not wrong by any stretch of the imagination. I wish you were like, I wish we didn't just have a bunch of clowns that we kept electing over and over again. But, yeah, that's exactly where we are. But no, I agree that, like, just because we don't want to deal with, you know, in this specific format, deal with the National bullshit that's going on. The stuff that happens at our local level is huge. Yeah, 100% maybe that's that's a direct impact on your life and my life on a day to day basis. So I don't see any reason why those are local. Those would be topics we wouldn't Yeah, Andre and I think Carolina Beach is so I think it's Wilson or Rocky Mount. One of the two, they're like, way bad, yeah, Chris I guess Rocky Mount, I mean, that's like, pretty sure that's where all the methods hang out. Andre That's. Yes, yes. Rocky Mount, Chris yeah. Andre They're Wow. They're savings fund one from 100 million in 2023 to roughly 20 million in 2025 they have to cut $29.6 million from the 2026 budget. That that's horrendous, even my town. I mean, we have, you know, generally, a a functional local government, but we have our issues. Chris There's the data center out not too far from where you guys are that's been a topic of conversation for a while now. Andre They effectively put in a moratorium. And I spoke to one of the town council members last week, and I was like, that's good. So you have a about 11 months to figure out how to prevent this from being a thing. It's and it's really because of the cheap land of the southeast. It's not because we have any extraordinary circumstances that make us prime for data centers other than cheap land. Chris Why did all the people move here in the early 2000s Right, Andre right, Chris cheap land like Andre you live like a king in the southeast. It's, it's one of those things. So I think that, and not to put Carolina Beach out like that, but this is a puff piece. These are these numbers deserve more questions. Big time. If port city daily.com, can do their job, you know, why not? What are the news stations doing? I know they're all probably owned by what's the Sinclair? Sinclair? So they're probably not going to report on it. And these are things that affects people's lives. You know, it's all right. This is my thought. It's very easily. It's very easy to be frustrated by the National Circus. What's going to affect my day more so than not, aside from the clowns in Washington, or what happens in Wake County, what happens in our state legislature, where these fucking idiots and they can't get a goddamn budget together. Chris Yeah, Andre so tomorrow, like I think it's eight counties are pretty much not gonna have school because the teachers are protesting tomorrow downtown. But the actual fuck these assholes just gave themselves a raise, like two or three years ago, Chris but they can't, and they have, what, a super majority here too, right? And they can't pass a fucking budget. I mean, is it like, please? I mean, it's a it's a lot like what we see at the national level, where it's like, you control all three branches, and yet you complain that you you can't get anything done. Like, that sounds like a personal problem. Andre Like, I all offense to anybody that is a like, Die Hard Republican. You're incompetent. It's not the stupidity, it's the incompetence. It's not the boogeyman in the closet. It's the incompetence and the things that you choose to spend time on. It's like the Medicaid bill, the or funding temporary Medicaid funding that the governor just signed. Speaker 2 It's Andre not because the fucking Republicans care about it's because their constituents are going to be affected by it, Chris right? Andre So Josh Stein can say whatever the fuck he wants to say. The Republicans only gave him that bill because they were like, oh shit. When I go to Rockingham County, 70% of the people are on fucking Medicaid so, Chris but they keep voting for these guys too, right? Like, that's the other amazing thing is, it's like, Man, I mean, talk about voting against your own interest, just time and time again, I don't know. Speaker 16 Well, God, Jesus and guns. Chris And two of those are technically the same person. Andre I'm just telling you, man, that's what I hear God using guns. Speaker 2 It's Andre like, Chris yeah, Andre Damn your fucking lotteries. And you're fucking like, it's just, it's just a shit show. And it's like, Look, I get it. And again, not going nationally, but locally, statewide, we have our own problems. We're number 46 in education. Chris Yeah, Andre I think our teachers just got ranked number 47th or 48th and lowest paid in the nation. Chris Yep, Andre it's kind of embarrassing. Chris Thank God for Mississippi keeping us Speaker 2 off the Chris bottom and Louisiana, yep, Speaker 2 seriously Chris though it's and with a state like North Carolina that has as much, you know, tax revenue and as many successful businesses and stuff like that as it does, there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to pay our teachers more, except that it's a concerted effort to defund education. I mean, that's that's what it has been for a while now, or at least to fund it to the barest minimum that they possibly can. Andre So Chris, if I may, let's be truthful. Let's be truthful. There are only a handful of counties that actually make money in this state. Chris Yes, Andre and let's also be truthful. The farming shit I was listening to a report on, I think was NPR yesterday, and the farm bill is about to pass this year, and I was thinking to myself, farmers are the largest fucking welfare recipients in the fucking country, Chris especially when you look at subsidies on their crops, right? Andre So Speaker 2 and Chris didn't Trump just give them another like, $50 million or something. I know when I Andre dollars. He just, like he just killed them with tariffs and waiting for subsidies with the upcoming Farm Bill. So you look at a state like North Carolina, that is an agricultural state. It's fucking welfare guys, yeah, like they have no business without subsidies from the state, that's impressive to me. And I'm sure exports from the state, from an agricultural state have shit the bad because of tariffs. Chris Yeah, absolutely. And we have a decent number of soybean farmers here in North Carolina. Andre So what's that guy's name, burger, who just lost? And, yeah, yeah, he lost because he's another piece of shit too. Yep. Chris And what's granted, it looks like he might have lost to an equally big piece of shit, but Andre a new piece of shit. Yeah, take the other piece of shits job. Yeah, and you got that? I mean, it's just, like, not a scam, but it's like, the farmers are, I mean, I'm sure they work hard, but it's a, it's an industry propped up by the government, Chris one and again, one that we've done absolutely nothing to try and like, move into the modern era of farming, right? We if anything, what has happened is there's just been the large corporations that have gone out and either rented and leased the existing farming land, or straight up bought it out. And I think I told this story before, but a few years ago, my dad and I were driving cross country from California, from Arizona, and we stopped in New Mexico because he had a buddy of his that was he was in the army with that was living out there, and his family had this huge farm, and almost every single piece of it had been leased out to larger organizations, because they made more doing that than they could farming the land themselves. Andre I'm not saying get rid of farming. Chris No, but, but that type of like mindset just doesn't make any sense. Like what I don't know. Man, it's it's not. I don't I don't know what the what the real solution is on the farming front, but the path we're going down is not solving any of it. Andre I'm not a farmer, and I've met some farmers in my life, and they're very hard working people. And I'm saying this is a generalization, open to discussion. What are better outcomes, right? If your business floats on loans and it floats floats on government subsidies, is it truly a business? That's an objective thing to ask Chris Absolutely. I mean, we say the same thing about stuff like Walmart and, you know, companies like that, where their workers are basically living off of government, you know, government subsidies, government. Programs and that we essentially are there for subsidizing their wages at that organization, which that corporation then turns around and turns into profit at our expense. Andre So it impressed me to hear the number of grocers that were complaining about SNAP benefits being cut off, and if I remember correctly, was like 20% of their revenue was Speaker 2 based Andre on SNAP. Chris That sounds Andre very that's true. And you look at WIC, WIC is, is also subsidized farmers for certain products. Speaker 2 I mean, Andre our whole system is like failing. Chris It's Fox man. I mean, look at like corn and ethanol and all that, right? Like we're basically paying farmers to grow shit that nobody wants. Where, what on earth sense does that make? Andre But what's what? What is a bright light is black farmers are good, and this is i Chris That's fantastic. Andre Yeah, because they're they aren't afforded the same USDA loans that white farmers are, so they figure out a way to make it Chris Yeah, Andre and if I don't hold me to it, but they're less likely to look or their farms are less likely to get just I don't know what the word is. They're less likely to stop farming because they figured a way to modify their businesses. They're Chris they're more secure in their position in the market than a lot of the other farmers are, Andre right? So I don't know that's that was depressing. Chris Let's end it on that. Thanks for coming, everybody. Hope your life feels worse now than it did before. No, but, but, I think, like to circle it back to what we were talking about just before this, that at the end of the day, it's not about relying on the federal government and the USDA to provide these loans, right? It's about your local community, your local government and your state doing what it needs to, just to do, to support the constituents and the residents thereof. I mean, like that's and that's where the focus needs to be put back on as individuals, because all of the attention on the national bullshit is just distracting from our ability to actually get anything done in our own backyard. Andre Well, what I find interesting there, there are more towns like and this is something that was as I was as I was reading the article early about Carolina Beach. And I'm seeing the same trend in other places. As things get worse, these stories pop up more, right? So as grants and revenue and like tax revenue is coming in, flowing and you can, kind of, you know, kick the can a little bit, but when you start to peel back the layers and you you you have issues like tariffs. You have issues like, you know, farm production being reduced because of stupid deportation activities, Chris increased energy costs because of unnecessary Middle East wars, like, Andre it's kind of hard. It's kind of hard to not talk about the fact we got God for four and $35,000 right? It's kind of hard to talk about the fact that, oh, we can't push these, these whatever payments off until next fiscal year. So it makes me wonder, like, the longer these things happen. How many more things are going to show up? You know, what's going to happen in Mecklenburg County? What's going to happen in like, I mean, Carrie just had to, like, fight well, he resigned their their town manager last year for embezzlement. So it's like, of all the things that are going to continue to happen, like, as the pressure starts to mount, what gets exposed next? I don't know Chris that's a great question. It'll be really interesting to see, because I think you're right that, like, a lot more of this type of stuff is going to continue to come out. And then what did those puff pieces look like? Trying to gloss over the fact that, you know, the town lost half a million dollars to a scam. Andre That's wild, yeah, Chris yeah, it really is. It's a wild world we live in, ladies and Andre gentlemen, and we don't have to go national to talk about the crazy shit that's going on. Man, it's like, Chris no. That's the beauty of it now, is there's plenty of stuff here locally and in our own state that we can Yeah, we can pay the bills with that, so to speak, except we just pay the bills out of our own. Pockets, because the show just making money, Speaker 4 damn Andre it. I guess, I guess we can't talk about Dwayne The Rock. Josh Johnson, I saw a comment, I guess I'm glad you guys aren't in the Chris movie industry. You guys, don't you guys know it was, yeah, whatever. I looked at that guy's channel and he he does like video game play throughs and stuff like that, and that's pretty much it. So I asked him to please let us know what it is that we got wrong. Somebody else chimed in and said, Don't engage with this person. But like, legitimately, if you got something that, if there's something that we said that you don't agree with, don't just say I don't agree with something you said. Like, tell me what it is that you said, so we can have a conversation about maybe, maybe you're right. Maybe there's something I don't know, and I'd like to know what that is, but I can't do that. Andre Many episodes ago, somebody actually critiqued my view on James Gunn's Guardian of the Galaxy, and I found a great commentator because of it. I still think James Gunn is James, yeah, I mean, Chris but you found that new source of information and entertainment out of it. So, Andre yeah, so it's kind of like, well, but I'm not wrong. It's, it's, it's my perception, and I'm not the only one like, the the longer I wait, the more people I see that are coming that actually agree with me. And I'm not even looking for these people. I'm not, not I, I kind of agree like, Yeah, I'm not saying he's a terrible person. I'm just kind of saying maybe, possibly, he's got a shtick, and it's not, Chris it sounds to me like you really want to talk about James Gunn next episode. I know. I'm just kidding. We've talked about it so much already. I'm just kidding. We're not gonna talk about Andre I'm not even happy anymore when I'm right, I'm kind of like, I knew that I no. Speaker 2 But Chris it was funny, though, because, like, in that clip, that segment, we didn't even spend that much time talking about movies, because it was, like, it was only a four minute segment. You said, I don't like the rock. I said, I like wrestling again, and I like danhausen. And then it was like, fuck Gene Simmons and fuck Sylvester Stallone. And that was pretty much the end of the segment, and I'm like, what about that has anything to do with the movie industry? Like, what part is this? I don't understand. I Speaker 2 whatever. Andre If they're listening. I can't sing Kevin Hart either. Like, I refuse. Oh, I have Chris a great video I'll send you later, of this guy roasting Kevin Hart. Andre Kevin Hart, Chris Pratt, Dwayne rock, Johnson, Sylvester, Stallone, who else am I tired of seeing it in movies? Those are my top four. No particular order. All Chris right, I don't have a problem with this guy, per se, but I am getting kind of tired of seeing him in almost every movie. Glenn Powell, Andre Glenn Powell may make the list, yes, Chris like, he's, I don't there's nothing negative about him that I know of, right? Like, I'm not like, Oh, he did something bad, and that's why I don't like him. I'm like, all of those other people that you named outside of their movie careers and whatnot, but yeah, it's just like, I feel he's the one where it's like, Hollywood is just gonna put him in everything and keep shoving him down my throat, and I'm just like, I He's okay, but I don't need him this much. Like, Andre who's the other guy that tried? Jai Courtney. Is that his name? Chris Yeah, I think so, Speaker 16 yeah, let me Chris there's a few guys they've done over the last several years. This Andre is Jai Courtney. Yeah, it is Jai Courtney. He's another one they tried to, like, force down our throats and like, nobody was like, I'm good, yeah, but yeah, yeah. So I have terrible takes on Hollywood, because I'm not a fanboy of anybody. I can turn on anybody just like that. Be like, You're dead to me. Chris Whatever our pop culture related videos are some of our most popular content. So I don't, I'm not. I'm not. You don't have bad takes on stuff. We don't have bad takes on things. It's our opinions. This is so subjective. It's not a matter like, oh my gosh, people, people take this shit way too seriously at the end of the day, like, fucking moving people, sure. I mean, that's fine. Like again, it Andre doesn't matter. He just same thing over and over again, and Chris you don't like that, and that's okay. Some people like repetition, and, you know, Andre time on the soundtrack than the actual fucking movie. Chris That might be true. I would not be surprised if that was true, and I will give you that, definitely give you that. Andre Okay, I'm gonna end with my one critique of James Gunn in the DCU. Chris Okay, Andre they have good source. Material they necessarily, they really don't need your spin on it. Chris That's fair. That's fair. I really think we've talked about this a little bit before, but DC, the DC animated universe, is amazing, so incredible, and the fact that they can't figure out how to just kind of translate some of that into live action is confounding to me. I don't I don't get why they have such a hard time with that, but because I feel like you could basically take some of those stories and just do shot for shot remakes, live action, and people would eat it the fuck up, because lots of people haven't watched the DC animated universe like that would be. I saw a thing the other day where it was like Superman going around killing all the other heroes, because he, because Joker, tricked him, you know, into killing Lois and blowing up metropolis. And it was like, I've never seen this before. Are you fucking like, this would be incredible story to see, but yeah, Andre it's all I'm saying. I said I stand by that their their animated shit is amazing. Chris Yep, you were the one. I will give you 100% credit on that. You were the first one who said that, that I heard it was like, their their animated universe is incredible. They just need to figure out how to take some of that and put it in real life. But the more and more that I've caught glimpses of the animated universe, the more I'm like, no, he's absolutely one that 1,000% Speaker 2 right? Andre The only person has come close is Matt Reeves, and Chris he's got a new he's got another one, right? The next Andre Batman too. I'm kind of waiting to see what Supergirl looks like. I think that may be a home run, and I think lanterns may be a home run, but Chris I'm starting to get with you in that it's been so freaking long, and now, like we got to get more stuff out. I know Andre Daredevil too. I mean, I'm Daredevil born again, season two. Chris Yeah, I haven't watched that yet. I'm way behind on that, but yeah, supposed to be my my wife has watched it, and she said it's amazing. So Andre it's amazing, like, amazing. We're out here making up shit. It's like, stick to the source material. Put it on screen. It's a home run. It's a, it's a, it's a walk off home run. You're like, you're not even doing too much. You're just like, showing up and bam, Chris you're done. Andre So, okay, this is where I'll end. Chris Okay. Andre I've watched invincible season four. I think it's four or five. No four. Great show. A lot of violence. I think that's starting to wear thin on me, and I'm caught up with the boys, great show that's Chris a lot of violence, too Andre violence, and Chris I never even made it through season one of the boys, because it was just too much, really, yeah, it's, I'm, it's just too much Gore, too much violence. I'm just, was it I tried and, like, I like, some it was so dark, like, it's so fucking dark. Oh my god. It's just, I'm Andre not gonna Chris it's kind of heavy sometimes, man, Andre like, the last episode, I was kind of like, that's what Chris I'm saying, though, like, Andre I knew what was gonna happen was like, oh that, oh, they're gonna die. They're gonna they're, they're gonna die. Oh, but like that, oh, oh, my damn. And I was, Chris there's stuff that, like, I've seen clips and whatnot, where I'm like, I kind of, you know, like, maybe I do need to watch it again. But I never find myself in that position where I'm like, All right, I am in the mood to sit down and watch some dark ass fucking shit right now. Like, I don't know. Man, I don't. My brain doesn't work that way. I know some people watch, like horror flicks and stuff like that to kind of like, Andre I don't watch horror shit. But I will say, yeah, it's I'm in it for the story. I will say that there's a lot of violence, and I think that emotionally, there's only so much about like, really, Chris great, yeah. Speaker 3 Like, Chris that's, that's exactly where I was in season one. And it was just like, I, I could never really talk myself into picking it back up. So I just like, oh, that's one, that's one that's not for me, and that's okay. Andre Well, anyway. Well, I'm glad you guys hung out with us. We like to get together. This is my guy. He lives in a place that is trying to hide all the cookies and not tell anybody. And you can find all of our stuff on all the things, like, whether it's audio, we're. On SoundCloud and Google podcasts, or whatever they call it, Apple podcasts, or iTunes or the things. And yeah, we're there Spotify. You can listen to us there. We're on all the things, and if you have questions for us, or if there's something you want us to talk about, or drop us a comment, a like, or something in the bottom, if you like, and there's a video right here or something you might like, and there's another thing over here of something else, not sure what it is, but Chris you're saying all this like, I'm not going to put in my cookie cutter the trailer at the end that has the videos that slide in. Speaker 16 But you could, you couldn't. I'm just, just Chris in case, it Andre could be a thing over there. It could be a thing right there. Subscribe and like down there, as always, I'm Andre Chris and I'm Chris, Andre and we'll talk to you soon. Speaker 2 Thanks Chris for checking out the Chris and Andre show. This is the part where we ask you to like and subscribe. You can also leave a comment and share this with someone you think would find useful for more content like this. Head on over to Chris and Andre show.com. Remember stay sane, stay safe and stay salty. We'll see you on the next Speaker 2 one. You