-------------------------------START CLIP-------------------------------- ALICE: It’s okay, he was your friend. HALE: He wasn’t just my friend. I'm sorry. He loved you. Why would I want to take that away from you now? That would be so cruel. ALICE: Did you really think I didn’t know there was more? I knew Q really well, and if anyone was messy, it was him. HALE: Yeah. ALICE: He was pretty in love with you. HALE: I'm not sure that I'd say that. ALICE: I would. What was I supposed to do, huh? Demand that he only love me? Scream at him to be a less complicated person? I mean, it's Quentin we're talking about. And I loved him, the real him, all of him. -------------------------------END CLIP---------------------------------- CLARA: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Physical Kids Weekly. I'm Clara. DANI: And I'm Dani. HALE: And I’m Hale. CLARA: Giving away the punch line a little bit early. HALE: Oops. CLARA: We are here to talk about Episode 503, “The Mountain of Ghosts,” written by Sera Gamble. And as you heard half of, we are joined today by the two wonderful actors at the heart of this episode, Hale Appleman and Olivia Taylor Dudley. Hale, Olivia, thank you so much for being here today. HALE: My pleasure. OLIVIA: Thanks for having us. CLARA: We're all a little giggly this morning. OLIVIA: Well, you guys wanted to have Hale and I on together so, good luck. HALE: So, you’re asking for it. Yeah. CLARA: We did. We absolutely did. HALE: We only operate off the rails. CLARA: Yeah. HALE: Unless there’s work to be done. This is play. So sorry in advance. Whaw, whaw, whaw. CLARA: Well, we spent, this is going to be an odd transition. We spent the last the first three episodes of the season exploring the way everyone is dealing with their grief over Quentin’s death. It's pretty powerful, emotional material, but it's also very personal. So, I just kind of wanted to start by asking you, the two of you. What is it like when you're portraying that grief and Hale, why don't you start? HALE: Overall, it was a pretty bittersweet situation, in that we lost a dear friend, and character and colleague both as actors and as the characters that we portray. But on the other hand, it really did allow us to explore aspects of these characters, psychologies, and the way that can handle the hardship to lose someone that they love as deeply as Quentin. And that offered a kind of new, deeper, complex exploration of, I think particularly my relationship with Alice, Eliot and Alice. And as well, I would say throughout the whole season and Eliot's journey is the foundation of Eliot's journey, is based on the recovery and exploration of his own grief and psychology. So, one thing led to another, you know, and there's pros and cons, but I think overall, we were able to get some places that we wouldn't have gotten to otherwise. And I am grateful for that. CLARA: Olivia, what about you? What is it like, leaning into that grief as an actor? OLIVIA: Well, I agree with what Hale just said, it's, it was it was hard at first, you know, we all miss Jason, but I'm It really opened up a lot of room for finding new corners, inside these characters, minds and hearts. We've all lost people in our lives. I mean, I hope not. But I the majority of people out there knows what it's like to go through grief and it's not fun and it's different on everyone. And I feel like they wrote everybody's character, so individual in their grief and beautifully and I think that the fans that will watch it will see a reflection of themselves in somebody's grief. And as for Alice, it hit her harder than anything's ever hit her. I think, you know, she's lost a parent. She's lost her own life, at one point, she's lost a lot of things. She lost a brother, but Quentin represented something in her, that I feel like, is a big part of her life that she'll never get back and she's very lost without him. And this whole scene is about her finding herself and the friendship that she has with Eliot is my favorite thing I've gained from the show and I mean Hale very close in real life and I love him very much. But getting to explore the friendship between Alice and Eliot this season has been my favorite thing. And it's very complex and beautiful. And it's one that I'm most proud of. HALE: It's really fun for me to work with Olivia, snd it occurred to me that we haven't really worked together intensely since season one. And, I mean, we had ensemble scenes and group quests and things, but we've never really explored the specific dynamic between Eliot and Alice since the first year that we were on the show and I love my chemistry with Olivia, both in my real life and on screen, and I hope this isn't in poor taste, but it's really fun to work with her, even under emotionally complex circumstances. So that was kind of a joy for me this year and I liked it. I want more of it. You know. OLIVIA: It feels really safe to work together, Hale and I. HALE: Yeah. OLIVIA: We understand each other on some different astral HALE: Space alien, goober, chinchilla, Frodo, baggins, elf queen moment. OLIVIA: I literally have, I have all my little goodie friends. I got a little pegasus here, I’ve got an alien. I've got all kinds of stuff right here, Hale. I even if you, guys can't see it, who's listening got a little David Bowie photo in front of me. DANI: Let's move on, I guess. Your characters deal with grief very differently. Alice is consumed by her grief in a very visible way while Eliot until this episode has more been living in denial, although he does seem to be self medicating over it. Do their styles of grieving resonate with you? Olivia, why don't you start this time? OLIVAI: Hmm what an interesting question. I mean, I think there's a part of Alice, it's definitely Olivia grieving, but you know, I mean, we get these scripts and their characters that are written for us and words that are written for us. So, it's not my choices, but as far as what's happening, but my choices within the scene, and I mean, I love everything that we got. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that I got I feel like I did get lucky in what I got given this year, because when I've lost somebody, I love I was a complete and total mess. So, I'm not somebody who can I don't I don't know if I can do what Eliot's character did, as Olivia. So, I would be a total wreck if I were her. And so luckily, that's what they wrote me. I mean, it's not it's painful, and it requires a different muscle inside me to do it. But um, yeah, I don't know, grief’s weird. HALE: Yeah. OLIVIA: You never you never know what it's going to be. You never know how, how you're going to react to situation. So, I also think Alice was pretty surprised with herself and just kept getting deeper and deeper and but you know, she's, it's Alice Quinn, she's got to figure a way out. So that's what she did is she channeled her grief into, you know, how can she use her mind and her skills to get herself out of this? CLARA: Yeah, I think it does make a lot of sense. And it's funny because I think we spend so much of our lives trying to anticipate how we're going to feel in our worst moments. And it's just completely impossible to actually do. Not – and it wouldn’t help even if you could. OLIVIA: Totally. DANI: So, Hale, what about you? Do any other styles of grief resonate with you? HALE: I suppose. Hmm. I think of myself as I'm much more freely expressive, in person and the people that I love than Eliot is and so that's a pretty stark contrast in terms of how we handle the life that comes at us both emotionally and socially. So, I don't think that I would resort to any of the vices that Eliot does. I think I have a healthier constitution than that, at least in understanding my own psychology. I think Eliot's a little, his denial and his self-destructive tendencies are a little more magnified in his persona. And that's something that I was acutely aware of when I took apart. But I will say that the way that Eliot is handling his grief this season is resonance to how I proceed, Eliot, and I think that's a good thing because it allowed, -- me to build on the character that I had been away from for a year and returned to him in a way that felt appropriate given what had happened, but also kind of like a ill fitting call back to earlier seasons where something tragic happens to Eliot and he has to resort to vices in order to get through the day. This time that just the stakes were much higher. And when I say ill fitting, I mean, for him psychologically, he's, again trying to fit back into the mold that he created for himself years ago just in order to cope, truly as a coping mechanism, and it's transparent. Everyone can tell that he's not doing well, but he's, he's telling this lie to himself in the hopes that people will sweep it under the rug, as well as he is or not as well as he is, or not well as he is or as overtly as he is. So, I like the chance to revisit an old pattern in him in a new way, in a deeper way. If that make sense? DANI: Yeah, I think it does. CLARA: Um, it's interesting because I've never been someone who's super identifies with Eliot I -- was it Spooky who said that he's like a walking affectation? Yeah. HALE: Did I say that? CLARA: No, our -- a friend of ours did. But I think it's like, I think there's a lot of truth to it. But this season, I have found myself identifying with him more, in the way that he not the vices part so much, but this sort of denial component to his grief. Like it's, it's such a hard thing to deal with. And it's been really interesting for me to just sort of watch that unfold over the past three episodes. HALE: Yeah, and there's more coming later in the season. I mean, it's a very rich season, in terms of exploring Eliot's psychology and that was really exciting for me. So, I don't know, episodes five and six are pretty heavy., and then down the line. There's situations I'm not allowed to speak about, but there's a very special Margo -- there's a couple special Margo and Eliot episodes that play on themes, in ways that only like a Sci Fi Fantasy show can do. So. That's a tease, sorry. CLARA: We appreciate, we appreciate teases. HALE: Yeah. CLARA: So, the scene that we played the scene on the mountain, and I think I can speak for both of us and say that it's our favorite scene in this episode, right? Yeah. DANI: Definitely. CLARA: And, and a lot of it is because it is so cathartic, Alice and Eliot have never really talked about their relationships with Quentin before. Honestly, they've never even really talked about their feelings with each other before. HALE: Isn't that crazy? CLARA: Yeah. HALE: It’s crazy. CLARA: So, what did it mean for the two of you to have your characters finally acknowledge that bond? OLIVIA: I mean, it was lovely. It was what I wanted from this season and Sarah gave it to us in a big way. And it was very cathartic, as, you know, as these characters and as these actors just, we, I mean, we miss working with Jason. It's just, it's just a it was a beautiful gift from Sarah and the team to let us have this scene. I mean, it's crazy to think these characters didn't actually know these things about each other necessarily. They weren't you know, the fans and people watching they know everything was going on and all these people's these characters lives but then, in their little universes, they don't know Alice, Alice doesn't know about life in a day. She doesn't know about these things. So, it was really nice about Olivia does. So it was really nice to finally have everything out in the open and let these characters just feel and love each other and accept each other and, and I think they do in such a great way and I don't know it was it was there's two scenes in particular this season that were my favorite things while filming the show and that being one of them. And yeah, I love working with Hale. HALE: I love working with Olivia. We really, it was a really great opportunity for us to fill in each other's blanks, I guess emotionally in the scene and talk about where each of the characters were in the aftermath of their lover and friend passing and it was also surprising in the shooting of it. Like I think we took some time before we were on set that day and we had like a, we had some pretty deep conversations about our own personal grief and where we where we thought we wanted to go with the scene. But then I think there was a real kind of alchemy on the day, on the top of the mountain, that that surprised me. I didn't necessarily I think we both walked away thinking that I don't want to speak for you Liv, but I felt like there was something that happened there that wasn't planned in the sense that it was totally in something intuited on the day I'm not being very articulate, but something about the alchemy of being there with you on that day and playing scene and the way that Sarah wrote it was really rich, I think for these characters and for me too, and it just felt like there was a room for an element of surprise and what came out during some other on it. And I really just love that we have that freedom together and I adore it. And one of the reasons why I love working with you, and I think that's, that's true, like when we're just goofing around as friends. I never know, we can like zip off into space, and I never know what we're going to say next. And I think that's something that in the kind of a more grounded, emotionally complex way found itself into the scene. I hope I haven't actually seen it yet. But that's what I felt when we were playing it. CLARA: I mean, it feels like music. So, I feel like I feel like it must have. HALE: Our natural chemistry, is crazy. Yeah. OLIVIA: Getting to be on a show for five years is a gift in itself, for an actor. I mean, like, it's rare, you get to explore a character for this long, and to live with them and to go through things with them that then scenes like that, I mean, they all feel very real to us. I mean, they always do. But now it's even more than ever. I've never explored a character as long as I have with Alice. So, it just makes everything a little deeper. Every season, everything feels deeper. And this season is been my favorite one so far. As far as the stories and what we're doing with it, you know, I miss Quentin, but I think that it's a really powerful season, and it was to film it. CLARA: Yeah. HALE: I agree. CLARA: I have to say I agree with what I've seen, from what I've seen so far, too. It's been really powerful and honestly, it's -- I had a lot of faith that this would be a good season, but I've been impressed b -- I feel like the show keeps getting better and the characters keep getting deeper and it's so hard to lose a central character, a main character for any show and to recover from that, but I feel like this has been an incredible season and in many ways my favorite yet so far anyway, so it's really, it's really been nice to watch. DANI: I agree. CLARA: Okay, so we've already started talking a little bit about the episode, but I want to make it official and give a quick recap. I’ve made this this very quick. Alice and Eliot team up to return a piece of Quentin’s soul to the underworld and meet a mysterious dark King along the way. Meanwhile, Margo, Fen and Josh returned to Fillory to undo Margo's banishment and return her to the Florian thrown in Castle Whitespire. And on earth, Penny and Julia tracked out of sisters who they think can help solve the mystery of the surges. So, Dani, what did you think of this episode? DANI: I mean, as we said before, I think this is my favorite episode, so far. It's so beautiful. I just feel like the moment with Eliot and Alice is a long time coming and I've been wanting it since like season one, there's just so much emotion to it. And I feel like there's also a lot of really great like, reveals in the episode. CLARA: Yeah, absolutely. And I agree with that 100% like this is, this is awesome my favorite episode so far. And a lot of it is because it's it is so emotional, in addition to the scene on the mountain, the storyline with Alice and Eliot. The Fen, Margo and Josh storyline really got me, to. And like at first it bothered me, it felt like they were like Fen and Margo were being set up to like be pitted against each other and fight over a man. But that isn't really what happened at all. It's not really what it's about, and that scene in the dungeon when they're all in cages and Margo tells Fen and Josh, that she wasn't the one who saved them is really powerful. And I mean, Julia and Penny’s storyline has some sort of moments of reckoning in their budding relationship too. So, all in all a really, really good episode. So, as we dive into it, Dani, you want to kick us off? DANI: Sure. One of the things that struck me is, at the beginning of their arc when they first start bickering on the mountain, Alice comes off as kind of hottie and possessive, willfully ignoring Quentin's importance to Eliot, how do you feel about that? Olivia, what do you think is going on in Alice’s head? OLIVIA: Well, it's easy to jump on her for reacting that way. But you think about it. She doesn't know everything that's going on, and she doesn't know her Quentin and Eliot's relationship and, in her stance, and they've been together for years now. And he's the most important person in her life, and they have a very beautiful relationship and getting away. So, I completely see why she would feel possessive. HALE: Totally. OLIVIA: And, you know, the journey that she's been herself and Eliot just joins her, you know, she didn't ask for that. And she was on her own journey and so she is feeling very angry and possessive and confused you know? I HALE: Totally, OLIVIA: Everything that's going on because Alice isn't dumb she knows something is up, she knows there's things she doesn't know and but, you know when you're stressed and sad you get angry and Eliot's a friend of hers, you know, they may not be close never been that close with they've always shared a love for each other and, and he has not been totally truthful with her and I'm sure she feels that and there's all these things bubbling underneath the surface and this, this hike up the mountain is just bringing all of that to the surface and I try to be gentle on Alice because everything she does I -- to me it makes sense to her might just be because I'm a character the person playing her but I am always on her side. So yeah, it's so complex. I, I think Alice is actually very gentle and kind, but um, she's always kind of gets pitted in these strange positions like that. CLARA: And it's like you said, I mean when you're hurting you lash out at people and in some ways you lash out more the people who you're closest to, because I don't know they're the ones nearby. OLIVIA: Yeah. CLARA: But what I kind of love that Eliot doesn't just take it right? like that he kind of calls her on it. There's that line, you're way too smart for me to describe what you just said to total stupidity. Which is a great line, delivered very well. HALE: Thank you. CLARA: And at the same time, he, it's kind of like he tells the dark King, right like he has been holding back. And he says it's because he doesn't want to hurt her. HALE: Yeah. CLARA: But it's always -- it seemed like more to that more than that to me. Did you feel that way Hale? HALE: Yeah. Well, I also just want to say Alice's behavior is totally justifiable and Eliot is essentially prying himself into her solo quest, which is a really rude thing to do. That being said, I'm sure Alice is conscious of the fact that Eliot and Quentin had something deeper without knowing the specifics and I think there was a line that said as much as some -- right don't you say something like? CLARA: Yeah, yeah. HALE: “I knew like, I knew you idiot” or something like that. OLIVIA: Yeah. HALE: Like it’s not a secret you bitch. You know and I’m like just let me have my pain. OLIVIA: It’s not a secret you bitch would totally be a line on our show. HALE: That would be us -- yeah. Now that was the next episode. Wait, what was the question? CLARA: Just whether you think there's more to it, then him just not wanting to hurt her whether there's something whether he’s holding back – HALE: Oh yeah, well, the complex machinery of Eliot's emotional life is that he doesn't want to reveal it, ever. So, even when even through all of the growth and evolution that he's had over the last few years, something as heavy hitting as this certainly qualifies as, like no talk soon. But I think also he doesn't want to hurt her. He doesn't want to tell her because he doesn't want to hurt her. But he doesn't want to tell anyone because he's Eliot, you know? CLARA: Yeah. DANI: Yeah. When they do finally talk about it, like Clara said earlier, it's cathartic, and it allows them to be truly there for each other. I love that, Alice offers to help Eliot let go the letter it can't be easy for her either. Right, Olivia? OLIVIA: Yeah, of course not, but I mean, I think that Alice loves so much that Eliot opened up to her and then they got to be honest, and she feels seen and heard and loved. And that's what she's missing in her life right now. And so, I don't think it's that hard for her actually, to give anything to Eliot, give him everything she has because she's desperate for someone to love and someone to love her. And in that moment, Eliot is her, her, her person and they've been on the journey together, even if it's in parallel universes, so, um, I think I think it's perfect. And I think she's really happy with it. I mean that this I mean, doing it on the day, I don't know exactly how it turned out. But doing it on the day is extremely satisfying from moment to moment for these characters and I left -- you know, you rarely leave a scene feeling like you. You got it, and it feels good. And this was one of those ones where I'm like, well, I don't ever need to revisit that. again. I think we got what we came here for and you know, as actors and as characters, and so everything he was happy about it was good. It's all healing. DANI: So, I want to go back to the dark King for a second because based on what we've seen so far, I actually really like him. He's kind of telling everyone what they need to hear, and it seems like it throws everyone for a loop too. When they find out just who he is, it's like are we sure he's bad? There's so much I feel like I want to know about him. CLARA: Yeah, while and you were saying to me, Dani, that you thought he might be Chatwin, which was my first thought to, especially with the whole line about my family were magicians from earth because like, those are the main magicians from earth we knew came to Fillory. But there's a way in which that also feels way too simple. So, I don't know, I was curious if you had any other theories, Dani? DANI: I mean, I have so many, many theories. Like what if he's related to Quentin in some way, although that would be kind of weird. CLARA: That would be very weird after Eliot almost fucked the dark King. DANI: Yes, I thought maybe it could also tie into my Todd theory, and I think I've settled on the Chatwin, one because it is so simple, but you're right. It might be too simple. I've also toyed with him being the same character, like a curse and it's like a princess in the frog situation. CLARA: I feel like I heard somewhere in the rumor mill, like some scuttlebutt going around the internet, which might just have been someone else's theory about there being a body swap this season. So, I don't know maybe they're like surefing curse could be a thing. OLIVIA: I mean, we're not going to add to that. CLARA: Well, yeah, so I know you can't tell us who he is. But is there anything you can tease? The more confusing the better. HALE: About f’ing him particularly or about Maguire in general? CLARA: About the dark King? HALE: Oh, well, he's so handsome. I -- well, I had an interesting dynamic when we started our work together. And Sarah Gamble was up there to which was lovely because she was able to sort of initiate Shawn into the show in a lovely way. And he's so curious and so inquisitive and so professional and so prepared. He's just a lovely, lovely human being. And I was very impressed with his grace on set, but at the same time, as a character, and I think chemically, at first, I really I didn't know where this was going or who he was or what to think of him in this scenario. And so while I would say there was definitely a level of intrigue from the Eliot perspective, there was also and I don't know if this shows up at all, but a level of mistrust, but kind of like, sniffing each other out a little bit to figure what's really going on here a level of like, there's like a little bit of a yeah, a detective Eliot. Like in my head, at least there was but I don't know if that plays it might we might just be gazing into each other's eyes for you know, the whole season but either ways is, fine. DANI: I love it because I called it. I called him being cast as soon as I found out he was involved. And I was just like -- HALE: Uh oh. Did I just spoil something? DANI: I mean, it's pretty much there. HALE: It’s been written in that episode. DANI: It's there in that episode. HALE: I’m like it’s me Olivia. CLARA: Yeah, I'm going to call you on your bullshit slightly Dani because you did call that but you also called like three other people as Eliot’s potential love affairs. DANI: No, I have two. I had two. HALE: Who else? Who else? I need to know. DANI: Okay, so when I found out Sean Maguire was cast and then I saw that Jake Choi was cast I thought it would be one or the other. That's what I said. One or the other. But then Jake Choi in the last episode literally died and I was very upset because I love him. HALE: Shantae you say Sean Maguire? DANI: I love, I love Sean Maguire though (inaudible) HALE: He's so talented, and just he's a he's like a he's like a real precious being. I really adore him. He's a good guy. DANI: Yeah, I hope the show doesn't doing dirty like, Once Upon a Time did but you know. HALE: I don't. I don't think that's even close to possible. That's all. OLIVIA: Two different shows. DANI: Good to know. CLARA: So, Dani, I think you had a couple more questions for Hale right before he before we let him go, listeners Hale needs to go a little bit earlier. So, we're going to say goodbye to him in not too long. HALE: I got a good 17 minutes, you know. DANI: So, like, I had a couple questions. I was just wondering, after last season's finale, there's a lot of reaction to it. HALE: I don’t know what you are talking about. DANI: I was just like, wondering like how you felt about that? And like, what's going on -- a queer man and maybe, like what you hope people to get out of the season or something that you're excited for? HALE: Hmm, that's a lot of good, good questions. DANI: Yeah. HALE: Well, I feel a kinship with the queer community who fell in love with this show and fell in love with, with Eliot particularly and has in a really beautiful way either found community through the fandom or, you know, either whether that's online or in their communities that they otherwise wouldn't have found or within a certain radius of where they live. There's a lot of kids out there that I've met in Denver, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philadelphia, who don't feel particularly seen in their, in their worlds that they must exist in either because they are too young to forge their own lives at this point or because they grew up with a certain level of trauma and, and a clearness that just wasn't accepted where they grew up. So, there's like, it's kind of a like a given that I, I guess, just have a huge degree of empathy for those kids around country and around the world. And at the same time, I feel a great responsibility to play Eliot, for as long as I'm on “The Magician's” a character who I love and a character who is no stranger to trauma and tragedy himself. So, it was kind of like walking an interesting line there because I both understood the reactions and the sadness and the grief over the fact that Quentin left the show. And I also felt a responsibility perhaps more than ever to deliver Eliot in his fullness and in his the exploration of his own process around what happened to an even deeper level. So, not a deeper level but I felt more emphatically connected to Eliot in the aftermath of this event then, than ever before, perhaps. I would also say that this season might be my strongest season on the show. And I don't know because I haven't seen it and there and also like, who knows if I saw it if my opinion means jack shit, because I'm just watching I'm just an actor watching himself. So, I don't really know if I can be fully objective anyway, but the making of this season was kind of thrilling and the unfortunate sadness of losing a dear friend. And for Eliot a lover, it bore a kind of like, beautiful banquet of delicious work for us to tackle together as an ensemble. And I do think that, I don't know drama is part and parcel of acting, conflict is part and parcel of acting and whether or not you agree with the choices that were made at the end of the season. I do hope that you guys will tune in to see how Eliot handles that because there's a level of specificity and nuance in the writing for Elliot this year that I hadn't seen before. So, it's complicated. It's -- I wasn't going to abandon the character, and I, I think that the writers did an extraordinary job unpacking the big problem that they set up at the end of the season by having us lose someone we love so dearly. I don't know if that made sense, but I -- it made sense to me. CLARA: I think it makes a lot of sense. And I think, I mean, Dani and I've had a lot of long conversations and we had one with Olivia, when the finale just came out, um. OLIVIA: Boy, that was a fun talk. CLARA: I’m sorry. DANI: So fun. CLARA: I will admit a tiny part of why I didn't play the with you on, is I don't want to make you cry again Olivia. But I think like, Dani and I both identify as queer too, and I think we really understand and share the desire to see happy queer stories. At the same time. I think we both feel like it's important to have queer character as be multifaceted and to see to see them as real and three dimensional. HALE: Yeah, I agree 100%. I also think Eliot's a character who is in need of a certain attention to his own psychology both in some kind of therapeutic process and inward looking, in order to be in a place where he could have that happy ending that everyone so desires for him. Even before Quentin's death, that was true. I want the same things for him and I want queer stories and I want complex queer stories. But and you know, the other side of things is that, you know, six years ago when this job came around, there weren't a lot of characters like Eliot, on TV, and things have shifted in such a beautiful way and that's so exciting. But we get to me and having been, you know, in an actor for a while now and, and having started up in New York over a decade ago, I I've seen a lot of change in in certain stories that are allowed to be told, at all. And I don't want to sound like a like a granny over here, but on some level, it goes from you know, you're a young actor, I was a young actor in New York, and a lot of people suggested that if I played a gay role, that I not play another gay roll for a while because that spells certain death to the longevity of your career now things have changed a little bit on that front, and I'm grateful for that. But now, having played Eliot for five years, the conversation has changed so much. And in the advent of social media, everyone's voice is amplified, which is a beautiful thing, can be a beautiful thing. But it's also -- an everyone has a right to share their opinion and I and I am not saying that I disagree necessarily with some of the, with the feelings that they have. I understand the feelings you know, that's it's not, it's not confusing to me to empathize with those feelings. But also, at the same time, the character wouldn't have even been on TV seven years ago, so I don't -- so it's a strong hairpin turn. Anyway, I don't I don't need to, I don't need to beat the dead horse. I think. I think it's complicated and I see both sides of it an experienced all the sides of it personally. So, I understand. CLARA: I think its kind of like what Margo says later in the episode, right? Like, can I have a complicated feeling that’s how it is sometimes when you are seeing both how things like you want more, but you also see how far things have come and are grateful for it. And it can be complicated. And I think it can also be really complicated to be a public figure who is queer and playing a queer character. HALE: But it's -- but you know, honestly, I think like, if, if that's the perception if, I have that perception at all, which I don't know if I do, but, -- if I'm a queer public figure, it's because there's a degree of honesty that I've been willing to share. But there's also a degree of questioning that would never be given to a straight actor. And so, there's a huge double standard around which you get a job, you're playing a queer character, and then there's the faction of people or an interview that comes out and because you've revealed yourself and your identity on some, to some extent, all of a sudden, you're, you're an icon. Or you're, you know, I'm not saying that's being said about me, but it's like, there's an instant, there's like kind of a zero to 100. DANI: Yeah. HALE: Level of intensity or scrutiny that is potential with queer or nonbinary characters or actors that the same line of questioning just doesn't exist -- for straight actors. So, it's complicated and we live in, in which, you know, everyone's opinion is on full blast and, that's, that's intense. I'm not going to lie. It was an intense moment for me, and I and it was hard to see and feel everyone's pain so acutely. Anyway, I guess that's I guess that's enough. I guess I've said quite a lot. CLARA: Well, thank you so much for, for sharing that with us. OLIVIA: Everything you're saying is very true. And it's a very complex thing and it's too much to unpack in one podcast at a time it's in its ever changing. So. HALE: Yeah, things, things have changed really fast. For or at least they seem that way for someone of my age and experience. So, I feel connected to what's happening and connected to the kids out there who feel deeply around this conversation. And I also have a responsibility to my character and to a show that I love. and I will continue. And I hope you enjoy what's happening in the aftermath because I think that it explores a depth that we didn't otherwise wouldn't otherwise necessarily see. So, it's really nuanced. CLARA: I can't speak for anyone else but I can speak for,-- for me and I think I can probably speak for Dani but I'll let her do it on her own and to say that we have -- we just we really love what we've seen this season so far. And it feels really raw and honest and authentic in a way that TV and especially fantasy TV rarely does. HALE: Yeah. CLARA: So yeah. I'm, I'm with you on that. DANI: Yeah. And as sad as it makes me because Quentin was literally one of my favorite characters, so to see you know, like him die was kind of the worst but at the same time, I feel like with TV and movies and books and stuff, sometimes with a big series you have to see like that glue dissolve to see some growth with the other characters. CLARA: Yeah. DANI: Yeah. Because you don't want them to just be stay stuck. CLARA: Yeah. Um, well Hale I know you have to get going. Is there anything else you want to sort of say leave people with before you do? HALE: I loved making this season. It was ironically a joy to make it. It's a joy to continue playing Eliot. I hopefully get to do more if you're into that sort of thing. Yeah, I don't know I loved working with Liv on this episode and on this season and I'm thankful that you guys have us and me on and us on you know, going to go pack some suitcases and try and figure out this little life. CLARA: Thank you so much Hale. Thank you for being here. DANI: Yes. Thank you so much. OLIVIA: Hale. HALE: Oh, I love you. I'll see you later probably. OLIVIA: Let’s get dinner. HALE: Okay, see you later. Bye guys, thank you so much. CLARA: So, shall we -- well, before we move on to Margo, Josh, and Fen is there anything else you want to say about your storyline or Alice's storyline? Olivia. OLIVAI: Oh, for the whole season? DANI: No, no for the episode. CLARA: I meant for the episode but yeah, sure, by all means. DANI: I mean yeah, if you want to talk about the season. OLIVIA: Yeah. I mean it really was so much fun filming these scenes and I just love this character so much. I'm sorry I'm wrapped up in my head still about everything Hale was talking about so it's hard to jump back into. DANI: I have a specific question for you. It's -- how did you feel like in the episode priors, Episode Two working with Luca who played like a young Quentin. How was that for you? OLIVIA: Oh man, Luca’s, so talented. He's such a he's such an amazing guy. I mean, his just like wise beyond his years and I'm a big fan of Sarah's other show “You” and so I had already seen his work on that show and when they told me Luca, was going to be working with me, I got really excited and Alice has gotten to work with a lot of guest stars over the years. It's just the nature of my character. I get to work with a lot of different people. And Luca was just what a gentleman he's so freaking smart. And he just understood this character and he did his research. And there was like, illumined just right there with each other the whole time. And he's beautiful and soulful. And yeah, I love. I love his work in Episode Two. I think he's just, he's such a he's -- a he's a great scene partner. And it was cathartic for me because Jason is a great scene partner, and I miss working with him and Luca just stepped up and was definitely a version of Jason. CLARA: Oh, my God. He had his mannerisms down pat. DANI: Yeah, I was floored. Like, I was like, whoa. OLIVIA: You know, it was weird. He just yeah, he was great. I feel really lucky that I got to work with him. DANI: I really liked that scene. I felt like it was cathartic, probably for a lot of people. And hopefully when they watch it, they'll feel that way too. OLIVAI: Yeah. CLARA: So, anything else you want to say about 503 before we move on to our -- about a Alice and Elliot in 503 before we move on to Margo, Josh and Fen? OLIVIA: Um, you know, I just think Alice and Elliott are wonderful and they should get married and be happily ever after on top. But that's just my version of “The Magician's.” CLARA: All right, onto Margo, Josh, and Fen. So, Dani, you said in your notes that the scene where Margo stabs fan was one of your least favorite in the episode. Why was that? DANI: I really feel like you mentioned it before, like pitting women against each other and especially in the relationship between these two. I thought we were past a lot of that with Margo and Fen so I just found it a little bit disappointing. CLARA: Yeah, I get that. I will say let's go. I said before, I don't really think that's what it was about. Like I saw a lot of it as being about Margo's sort of guilt and anger over not being seen for who she really is. She's accepting their gratitude and they're sort of fawningness. But I think she feels like an imposter because she, when she does that, because she kind of is and like, I thought a lot about the backstory we got about Margo in 410 where you see that her dad, right basically, did the virgin whore dichotomy on her right. She was his perfect little daughter until she became sexual and had wants and agency of her own. And then he just vilified her. And so, I think for her, the idea of being put on a pedestal for someone who she isn't really as really abhorrent. You know, also she was a werewolf at the time or becoming one. DANI: Yeah. CLARA: But yeah, I had that initial reaction to but when I, when I sort of thought about it more, I don't really think it was about Josh at all, I think you see that a little in the dungeon to when like Fen makes -- Fen gets mad and like says “but Josh, you were just a lovesick puppy.” Right. She didn't really have that deep attachment to him. Yeah, it seemed like there was more going on. I also think in that scene when in that dungeon when Margo is sort of asserting who she is, right, like she feels like she is going to be honest, even if it means she loses people she loves. And she's really just thinking about, like, how it affects her. And it is brave and away but once she says it, I think she realizes a little bit too late that it's also kind of cruel to those people the way that she has approached it. DANI: Yeah. I think its kind of an interesting that contrast. Alice and Margo, in this episode because Alice is having trouble dealing with the truth and Margo is having trouble with the lies that she's been telling. And I have a feeling Margo is going to have a hard time with the fact that Eliot was honest about his feelings with Alice and not her. What do you think Olivia? OLIVIA: Oh, that's interesting. I don’t want to give things away. But yeah, I mean, I feel like everybody's different with everything in their life, and they're a different version of themselves, right? We're all actors, even whether we like it or not. And Alice went through something that Eliot, they both went through something very similar. And so, they share that. So, it's a safe place. And Margo, I mean, I don't want to speak for those two characters, but you know, they have a different relationship. And they both kind of protect themselves, even within the relationship they have. So, I don't I don't know. It's I don't know how to comment on that because I'm not them. But I think Summers performance is brilliant, always. And I love that character. And I think that the love that her and Josh have is one of my favorite things on the show. It surprised me when it first came along. And now it's become one of my favorite storylines. And so, that’s being explored in the beginning of the season, but um, yeah. CLARA: We also -- we haven't seen Margo and Alice together really since season one either, at least not in any kind of depth. OLIVIA: Alice and Margo are two my favorite characters together. One and some of the scenes we had in the beginning of the show and season one were so much fun and we were really excited because Summer and I are really good friends. We were so excited to work together a ton and to have that because they're two very strong female characters. And I mean, like, strong energies in a room and that was really fun to play with. And I'm really sad that that hasn't really necessarily been explored throughout the show, but um, you know, I don't really want to give away what happens throughout our season. But yeah, those two together is a favorite combo of mine. CLARA: Yeah, I hope we get to see them back. I saw like one of my, one of my favorite lines in the entire show comes from that one of those early scenes with Margo and Alice, where I think Alice is like packing up to leave Brakebills and she said, she said she makes some comment about like, I thought you'd be happy, no more competition. And once she's out the door, Margo says, “but I like competition.” And I just thought that was like such a perfect moment early on. OLIVIA: Yeah. DANI: I mean, I feel like they used to pretty strong like ship. People used to love them back in season one. CLARA: Oh yeah. Malice. I mean, I still ship that. OLIVIA: Oh yeah, Malice. I mean still ship that. DANI: I ship it all. CLARA: Dani, you said speaking of ships. You said you were surprised that Fen and Josh hooked up. Can you say why that was? DANI: I guess it's just the they're two characters that seem to care the most about Margo. And I felt like they are the two characters that are least likely to betray her. And I know that they said that they waited forever to do it, but I don't know. I guess I just take she would care less if Josh hooked up with some random Florian. It just seems kind of like too easy, I guess that they would hook up. And I think that's why it surprises me. CLARA: Yes, I mean, I could sort of get that. But I think they make a lot of sense both because sort of going off of what you just said, right? Like if they are both people who cared a lot about Margo and lost Margo, for one, they have that in common. But the other thing is that Fen is very nurturing by nature and really a lot of a caretaker. But Josh is also someone who takes care of people, usually by feeding them, but he is really somebody who is nurturing as well. And I can see how it really appealed to Fen, to have a guy around who is trying to take care of her instead of someone who she has to be taken care of all the time. OLIVIA: Yeah. DANI: I can definitely see that and I just think it's, for me, it was kind of more like, Is it necessary? I mean, I don't mind it at the end of the day. It's just something that I was just kind of, a little bit surprised by but I mean. OLIVIA: I think that it's just another, you know faction of grief, it's a different way that something happens. It's a real thing that happens, you know, you lose, somebody loses someone and then they end up dating the best friend or marrying the best friend says this the best way they can get to that person they lost. And I think that, that's where that's coming from at least that's what I read into it. So. DANI: I like -- I do feel like, you know, they were cut off from everybody. It wasn't just yeah, Margo like they had no idea what had happened to anybody. So, it's definitely like I can see it, but it was just kind of one of those things that I was just like, hmm, but we should move on to Julia and Penny. I like this episode exposed more of the cracks in the relationship. I feel like that ship isn't very long for this world if you know what I mean. CLARA: Yeah, and I agree with you 100%. I mean, Henry, I think made a comment when we talked to him for 501 about how grief sometimes keeps people together when they might not actually have much else that would do the trick or when they just aren't compatible in other ways. And at some point, they're going to have to reckon with the difference in their priorities, which I think became really apparent in this episode even if Julia wasn’t acknowledging it, right. That's the first I've heard Penny say, like, I just want to settle down. I don't want any of those drama anymore, basically. But that's a pretty big difference. DANI: Yeah, and speaking of relationships, one thing we didn't talk about earlier was whether Eliot and Alice will find love again. There's a hint that the dark King might be a love interest for Eliot. I feel like they have a bond that's deeper than just sex. In that they both lost the men that they loved. So, we'll see what happens with that. But what about Alice? Olivia, what do you think? Do you see your character finding love again? OLIVIA: Well, I can't answer that fully because I don’t want to spoil the season, but it was a big question of mine going into this season. And I really love how they handled it. I mean, I would be very sad. If, you know, in Episode Four Alice falls in love and, and moves on, because that's not how life works. But um, yeah, I mean, I think that Quentin is the love of her life. And she'll never forget that. So, I would you know, it just as much as I would love hangover, you know, and just think about Quentin for the rest of your life, because I love that. I love it so much. There's two characters in the books, but um, you know, I also want to see her happy again. Hmm. That's, you know, that could take a while so I yeah, I don't. It's just, I don't want to give away what happens, but it was definitely something that was handled with care this season. And yeah, it was a big question for everybody. CLARA: So, so Going back to the Julia and Penny storyline. And that's the last thing I want to bring up before we get into fashion. Dani kind of had a crackpot theory that relates to the whole thing where so Julia and Penny find this magician, Daniela, who predicts this thing that they call Harmonic Convergence. And Dani is going to explain a little bit about what that is in life and also in Legend of Korra. Is that right? DANI: Yes, there's a character named Danny. I'm honored. CLARA: Of PK enterprises, no less. DANI: That said, I truly have no idea what it actually means for the show. The idea of Harmonic Convergence has been around for forever. I personally am only familiar with it because of Avatar The Last Airbender sequel The Legend of Korra. I think at this point, I brought it up that that series a couple times, and I have no idea if they were actually inspired by the show or not, but in that universe, it's when the planets align, and there's like a fight. between good and bad that balances the universe for a certain way for like 10,000 years. So, during one of those Harmonic Convergence’s in Korra she unites this book spirit world with the physical world into one, which creates a lot of side effects. It makes people who haven't been able to bend have that ability and it also makes a bunch of new airbenders. It's also important to note that during Harmonic Convergence in Korra, the very first avatar came to be because the character one fuses with a good spirit raava I feel that being avatar would be similar to being a God in “The Magician’s” universe. So, I think it would tie into Julia somehow getting her goddess powers back, in order to save everything. In real life, Harmonic Convergence was named after a synchronized global meditation that happened in 1987. During the planets aligning perfectly which was supposed to usher in years of peace. That was supposed to end in 2012. Back when the world was supposed to end. I think they can definitely tie that in with synchronized magic. I feel like there's probably a lot more there and stuff we could potentially bring up in the future. But if you haven't watched The Legend of Korra I think now's a good time, if you don't know what the hell is going on and you want to expect from the magicians universe, basically just like a lot of things reminded me of that specific season of The Legend, Korra that have been happening so far. Like, there's so many more people who can do magic. Just a thought. CLARA: I love how your smiling, so wide. OLIVIA: Well I love to hear theories. All I'll say is the Harmonic Convergence is a very powerful thing in any of those universes. So, I you know, you have to watch, you have to stay tuned and watch. Yeah, I love all that. CLARA: Hearing you talk about it, Dani in some of the texts he sent me last night, right like it. It, kind of harkens back a little bit to I think it's a lot of mythologies that have these like cycles of destruction and rebirth. DANI: There called like heaven and hell cycles. CLARA: Oh, well, but I mean, like, I think that exists in –- well so the Harmonic Convergence, the date that they got, I think came from the end of the Mayan calendar. I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. But like in, in Hindu mythology, right, the god Shiva is both destructive and creative. And so, like that -- it's a really big theme in a lot of mythology. And it's so interesting all the different ways that it gets interpreted and I'm looking forward to seeing how “The Magician's” interprets it. Olivia, is this your first time being on for a crackpot theory? OLIVIA: Yeah. I don't know how to handle these situations because I don't want to give anything away. CLARA: That's okay, big smiles are the usual. All right. We are short shifting the Julia, Penny storyline a little bit but I feel like since it crackpot theory, we can move on to fashion now. And this is one of those rare notes where I think like you said more about fashion than I did, Dani. And I thought your first sort of question about that was really interesting because you were wondering if Alice still wears Quentin's clothes? Where did that idea come from for you? OLIVIA: It was really important to me to wear Quentin's clothes. It's something that came up really early on with Magali, the costume designer and I had been pitching -- I've wanted Alice to wear Quentin's clothes in season one. Because I mean, I worn my partner's clothes many times in life. That's just something you do when you love somebody, you wear their shirts, you wear their sweatshirt, you wear whatever you can, you know, because it smells good. It smells like them. So, in the beginning of the show, I always wanted to wear -- I wanted scenes where Alice would like have his flannel on or something that that just, it never flew for them. So, in his death I finally got my way, which is really sad. But I just think it was a way for her to get closer to him. And it was it was a visual representation of her grief. And it was subtle, like, I don't know if everybody noticed that I was wearing her clothes or if it just looked like Alice woke up, sloppy. But they were, you know, most of them were actually Quentin's wardrobe. The clothes that Jason wore, and it’s great that we were the same size. But wore the same clothes is great, but um, yeah, it just helped me as an actor really get into Alice's mindset. And I really loved that. And it was, um, it was nice to be comfortable to for a couple episodes of the show for the first time ever. Alice was buttoned up and glorified and cinched in certain places, and so it was always good to see that side of her. Magali always does an amazing job at being able to show what we're going through with our w. So wardrobe, so yeah, I've glad that people notice that was exciting for me that people have noticed that, in the first I mean, they've noticed it in the first episode since that's what's aired so far. So yeah. DANI: I didn't notice quite right away, but I think I did start noticing it in the second episode. But I love that because I think even if you don't like, lose a partner to death, but even in just real life, like you, you lose someone that you've been dating and if say you're still like, really into them, like I feel like you latch onto like their items to like, I've definitely done that. I've definitely worn like a sweater of someone that I was no longer with. And it was very sad about. CLARA: Oh, yeah, I never returned my ex boyfriends. The Tick t-shirt, just didn't happen. It’s in a thrift store now that it didn't return it. Um, I like that you got to be comfortable. Because I think every time we've talked to you, you've mentioned is that you get you -- remember every time you get to wear pants because it's -- OLIVIA: Yeah, and this time jeans it's the only time you'll see Alice in jeans, but I still want it you know, these are all just micro little choices that were made. Like when you first meet her she's not wearing any jewelry she's not doing her hair and she you know is wearing his clothes and as the first three episodes go on, I slowly started putting my jewelry on in the morning before I go to set and slowly started putting makeup on and, and you know, it's just it's, it's all things that are just silly and stupid and they're just for me, but they helped me slowly get closer to Alice being okay. Because that's what it's like when you lose somebody you know, day one, everything's a mess. You're not going to get anything together but slowly every day you get one step closer to being able to you know, one foot in front of the other and I tried to do that with her hair, makeup and wardrobe and I brought back her braid this season that we had in season one, the braid in her hair, and that was really important to me when I pitched that because I feel like she was just trying to capture the innocence that she had when she was with first met Quentin at Brakebills. And that's something that she missed. And she's nostalgic, and she just wants her life back and when she was happy, so I started putting the braid inside of her hair, which we haven't seen in three seasons. So just little things like that means the actor to get into where Alice has had spaces like that. DANI: I like that. CLARA: Yeah, I mean, I love that stuff so much. And part of the reason I love the fashion on the show is because there are all -- it's all these little choices but you know, it's show, don't tell it seeing the way that a character is in it. That's what makes it feel real instead of feel, like a like TV when you're watching it. And yeah, I also really love how much Florian garb we got in this episode, just because there's so many people in Fillory and there's a big event happening in Fillory. Margo, Josh, Fen, Eliot and the dark King are all wearing Folorian things at some point, I think Eliott changes into his like Earth cities before they go hiking. DANI: Mm hmm. CLARA: But the highlight for me fashion wise was Margo's fighting outfit. And I loved it for a different reason than I normally love her outfits because her outfits are normally so flashy, but she's wearing something that is functional and that blends in a little more and that which makes sense because she's trying not to be recognized as you know, the banished ex hiking, who they'd probably chop her head off if they had the opportunity. But I just I really love that she went with something more subtle and it's again, it's like bringing all of that psychology and the ways that she is maybe changing into the show too. And of course, she still looks amazing. DANI: She was very good with that Ariana Grande high pony. I dug it. OLIVIA: Margo’s hair is insane. DANI: I felt like she was getting sassy in the episode as she became more wolf like and I thought it was hilarious. I liked the part where Eliot called Alice a goth survivalist in her outfit. I though it was perfect. CLARA: I was a little confused honestly, because she didn’t look very gothy to me. OLIVIA: I mean that's something that when I read that it's in the script, and that's what she looks like and then he says it and I really thought when I read that we were going to go real goth with Alice's look. And in different fittings, you know, different things were brought up and I don't really remember all the conversations, but we kind of landed on this place where Alice and Eliot would look a little bit more earthy and grounded. And I mean, that outfit that Alice has on during the mountain scene, and the hike is not anything she's ever worn before that's not something she would ever put on but um, you know, it's an even put on their boots, you know, put on their backpacks and go they have a mission and we wanted clothes to not distract from the mission. You know what I mean if it was too much costume it would feel a like a distraction like Well, I think that now she's going to be needed. She needs a jacket. So, you know, that's where that’s at. CLARA: She reminded me of -- I have a bunch of family who live in Vermont, and it was a very Vermont look. OLIVIA: Um, yeah, it's definitely a look that I would have. Something like that Olivia would wear for sure. Yeah, it's also freezing cold in Vancouver and it was raining, and so we had to we had to have things that we could layer for when it would get freezing. I mean, a lot of those scenes it's actually pouring rain. You just can't tell. So, you know, we had to actually be we had to be ready for the elements. CLARA: When were you filming this episode? OLIVIA: Um, I want to say probably end of July beginning of August. I don't know times an illusion. CLABRA: Before we move on to the MVP. Do you have any fashion notes for this episode that you want to share, Olivia? OLIVIA: I forget the structure. So, I guess I could have waited to talk about stuff. No, I think everyone looks great. CLARA: All right. OLIVIA: Everything that I felt about the wardrobe as far as my character is concerned. CLARA: Yeah. All right MVP time. I don't think it's going to be any surprise that I'm giving my MVP to you and to Hale. It's -- you're both incredible as individuals but I think together it's what did Hale say he said was “alchemy.” DANI: Yeah. CLARA: Yeah. I really felt that. The scene is the scenes you have together as such a partnership and it's amazing. And it's really magic. And so yes, my MVP, Hale and Olivia. Dani? OLIVIA: Aww. DANI: I mean, same. You already knew I was going to give it to them both. She just stole it from me first. I yeah, like immediately like, I don't even think I thought anything else for a second as you and Hale it was magical. Like I said, I've been waiting for them to have like a scene like this for a really long time. So, it was really awesome. OLIVIA: Thanks, guys. I'm glad you liked it. CLARA: Olivia, I don't ask you to give MVPs but if there's anyone you want to shout out, anyone whose work you think may have been under discussed, feel free. OLIVIA: Under discussed. I feel like we discussed everybody, I mean my MVP is to is to Hale I mean, he’s my scene partner so it's, it takes a lot of work. Everybody works really hard on the show. And you know, him and I do our you know, we do our work outside of set together and then when we showed up, it was all there and we got lucky that it all worked out. But um, he's a phenomenal actor and I feel really lucky to have him as a dear friend and dear scene partner. CLARA: Well that takes us to ratings which we have not been doing as ratings, this season. We've been doing it more as a like, just kind of final recap like what worked and what didn't and yeah, like what we're excited about. And Dani is probably going to shout at me for this because last episode, I told her she had to find something that didn't work for any episode, but I honestly, I really think this episode is perfect. And I loved everything about it. And I mean, it's basically like crying from beginning to end every single time I watched it. It's so satisfying. And I don't know I just love I love how the storylines connect together on this like theme of complicated relationships and facing the truth and felt really cohesive. So that's me, Dani? DANI: We already talked about what I didn't like really much Love to this episode so much it had so much heart and soul and I think Sarah did an incredible job with the script. I think my favorite moments were between Alice and Eliot and then Eliot in the dark King I really liked their conversation as well. By the way, does he have an actual name? Or is it something we're going to find out later? CLARA: I'm not going to ask Olivia to answer that. DANI: I don't remember. Like did he have a name in the script. CLARA: I don't think that he they say his name in this episode. I don’t think so. DANI: He doesn’t just like suddenly introduce himself. I don't remember. But dark King it is for now. CLARA: Alright. Well that – OLIVIA: I think he didn't have a name. DANI: I feel like he introduced himself but like as soon as he got -- we figured out he was dark King anything like that light dropped from my mind and I don't remember. CLARA: All right, well, I'm sure we'll hear about it from listeners. If someone else picked it up. Um, any final thoughts Olivia? OLIVIA: Final thoughts, no. I mean, I really am proud of this episode of the show and everybody involved and feel really lucky to play these characters and five years is a long time. I'm just really deep. And I'm just really grateful to the fans for being so understanding and loving and they take such good care of us. And I really hope they enjoyed this season as much as we did. DANI: I hope so, too. CLARA: I sure did, so far. DANI: So far, were very much enjoying it. CLARA: All right. Well, that takes us to the end of the episode. Olivia, thank you so much for being here. OLIVIA: Thank you guys. This was really great. I'm glad that Hale and I could do it together. DANI: Yes. OLIVIA: I like I like that a lot. CLARA: Yeah, we liked it. We liked your alchemy together on the podcast just as much as on the show. So yeah, I'll thank Hale again, even though he's not here for joining us for the first half and thanks for listeners too. If you like our podcast head over to iTunes and leave us your rating and review the more we get the easier it is for people to find us blah blah blah. I feel like I've been saying this for five years because I have, so that's it. Bye from all of us. DANI: Bye. OLIVIA: Bye.