[00:00:05] John: Hello. You are listening to standing in the fire where Kris and I talk about what it's like to be in the heat of SaaS and and other recurring revenue businesses. And we try to change that up every week and then talk about what we changed on that intro. I realized that's like, it's like my, what do they, what do they call it? Like your, your thing that you do. That's toxic trait. That's my toxic trait. Yeah. My toxic trait is every time I do the intro, I feel weird about the intro. Yeah. And then I talk about how the intro was weird. Yeah. And, like, as I listen back to the episodes, I'm like, why do I keep

[00:00:38] Kris: commenting on every single step?

[00:00:39] John: Let's go. So maybe next time, that's the one thing that will improve. We're gonna change Hey. We didn't talk about Garrett. So, you know That's true. Now I just did. Now I just did. Because Garrett and I now have a new podcast.

[00:00:51] Kris: So What's that one called?

[00:00:52] John: It's called the Friday Deploy.

[00:00:54] Kris: Oh, nice.

[00:00:54] John: So we're just gonna talk about it's all the stuff that, like... If we talked about all the business stuff and all the tech stuff on the exact same podcast Yeah. They just get really long. Right. Right. I feel like not everyone cares about both of those things. And if they do, they can get both, but it's kinda nice to separate them. Mhmm. And so ours will be more, you know, business and then Garrett and I will be more tech and dev and things like that. So first episode's out, which is cool. And you should should definitely go and listen to it if you're into that kind of thing. But today, we're gonna mix it up. We're not going straight into the fire. This time, we're just gonna we're gonna slowly just walk onto the embers. So embers are just small updates, little wins, and I I feel like we've had a lot of, like, you know, kinda little wins like that recently, and so I thought we'd just go straight into that.

[00:01:41] Kris: So, first? Yeah. Because I did think of some and but we can bounce back and forth. So, first one is we should've talked about this yesterday with our little team that we have. We've had in the last two weeks, number, we're talking about Momentum Mark, our co working space. We've had two members who have been co working that have grown enough where they've upgraded to offices.

[00:02:06] John: Oh, that's cool.

[00:02:07] Kris: And I think like that's what that's what we part of what we built this for is to give them a space and like we we're talking about it like did it happen because of us? Like what was the support of the community helpful to get them where they were around other people that were growing and so it subconsciously helps them get be motivated. They're not just working at home. But yeah, there there are two. Yeah. Just two in the last, you know, two weeks and frustrating part is like, we're running out of offices. So, like, how what do we do post that? But I think that's just, you know, we will never know what would have happened if they didn't weren't here, but I think that's just a testament to that we we hopefully were doing something right.

[00:02:46] John: I got a question about that. Are they people who they were co working? Did they ever bring people here? Or they're just coworking here? They're not like bringing clients here or like any of that kind of stuff or?

[00:02:58] Kris: When I've I'm trying to think if they've ever, I don't know that I've seen them with local clients. I actually think that I don't know that their clients are local too with the area.

[00:03:08] John: It was just like, I was a small theory of like, does bringing them into a place that's just beautiful.

[00:03:13] Kris: Correct.

[00:03:13] John: Make a difference for them.

[00:03:14] Kris: I think, I think with our friend Matt, who I think that as much as he was, he was super supportive before we opened. Yeah. As we got to open, he got a little bit of cold feet. Yeah. And then he joined the bad bandwagon like shortly thereafter. Yep. I think this has launched his trajectory way more than he expected it to. Mhmm. Because even after, like, eight months, he's like, charge me more. You know, you know, and at the beginning...

[00:03:42] John: I I don't know if I've... I guess I've said that a couple times. Yeah. It was pretty rare to say that.

[00:03:47] Kris: Yeah. He he... And at the beginning, you he was like, I don't know if we can cut... I don't know if we can, you know, do the rate that you're asking, let's try it out. We'll see how it goes. Can you give me a little deal? And now, and so, that I think has transformed because we, I worked with him and we were meeting at the library and like, you know, places like that that feel very more informal. And they meet with clients all the time. So if you're bringing the client to a space, I think the whole gravitas of it, goes back to a similar of my theory when I didn't have an office ten years ago. A decade. And I got a Tesla that I probably couldn't afford, but I was like, clients are only seeing me like, at their own office. Yeah. And if if you project success, like, then your rates aren't, like, you know, I... It just matches a little... And it's... I feel like it's a little bit psychology on that. Yeah. So... I definitely think there's psychology. There's also, you

[00:04:47] John: know, I drive past a financial adviser's thing, like, up by my house. Yeah. And every time I'd... Like, half the time I drive past, he has, like, this... I don't know what it is. Ferrari Corvette.

[00:05:00] Kris: Yeah.

[00:05:01] John: Something. And every time I see it, I'm like, are you doing great things for your clients? Are you taking their money? And that that like, so there there's some ways I think it can backfire, but probably most people are like, well, this guy's doing alright, so I'll give him my money. That's probably the normal thing, and I'm probably abnormal, but I do always think that. I do... I'm impressed though that that will save for branding. His, cars always match the branding of his actual business as well. It's like a green. Yeah. Forest green color. And I'm like, okay. Alright. I can respect that. So that's a good one. I like that.

[00:05:35] Kris: Yeah.

[00:05:35] John: I would say the biggest thing, it's it's a small update, but it's huge because, for example, I think now we're in the like 14 hundreds of like PRs or something like that pull request, you know, change to the code base. This PR was like 1,100 something.

[00:05:51] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:05:51] John: So it's super... Started a very long time ago. There's been a ton of change since, but like I just never closed loop on it and it's a new theme for Fireside. So Fireside now has this... I think we called it Air. I was gonna call it Modern and I was like, if you call something modern, then everything else is not modern. Yeah. And old and shaky. And I'm like, that doesn't seem right. But I was like, it's just a really simple... It has light and dark because everybody has that now. It's... It can pick it automatically or you can choose your own. Mhmm. Or you can follow the system, all that kind of stuff. And it just has nice space. It also is is working on kind of reducing the number of things you need to put in to have your podcast website look good.

[00:06:29] Kris: Yep.

[00:06:30] John: So it doesn't require, like, extra, you know, a header image or things like that. In fact, it hides them because it's like, we don't even if you're using the air theme, we just want your cover art. We're gonna make that the whole focus. Yep. Yeah. So it's very focused on cover art and episode art, which is something you and I have talked about a lot. Think on here and elsewhere is that like episode art is kind of the thing that starts to

[00:06:50] Kris: differentiate

[00:06:52] John: beginner podcasts from legit ones that have 17 or 18 episodes. I mean, come on. So that was probably the biggest one this week update wise was just seeing that go out was just huge. And then the other one is I've been working really hard on. I feel like Garrett and I have talked about this a lot, and we're gonna... I think we're gonna record today also on this topic, which is like the future.

[00:07:16] Kris: And

[00:07:16] John: like, is the future? And you and I talked about it, and you're like...

[00:07:20] Kris: I'm already I'm already feeling the feelings of, like... Yeah. It it it's not it's it's not hot and getting badly. It's just knowing that we have different perspectives, and it's fun to banter it back and forth.

[00:07:30] John: Yeah.

[00:07:31] Kris: So

[00:07:31] John: I will admit the future will not be this quickly.

[00:07:36] Kris: It

[00:07:37] John: will be a while before it's this way for everyone. But it's gonna... Like, I I see what happens in the in the tech and the programming world, and it usually hits us first. The nerds dip their toes in on the weekends, and then pretty soon they integrate in their jobs, and then it's a big thing. And the big thing for me is, you know, ever since I... We've been working on this application monitoring software, and ever since I switched to using that via an MCP, I have not went back into the web interface. Like, the web interface has disappeared for Yeah. So I brought it up with Garrett on our first episode. Yeah. Right at the end. We talked about it just a little bit, and then went our separate ways. I talked to him yesterday again. Side note, totally not weird to be taking a bath and have speakerphone on and talk to your... That's that's a normal thing. Right? Anyways, I'm not saying I did that. I just... Maybe someone's done that in the past. Garrett doesn't know. Yeah. Now he knows if he listens to this. But what I what I thought was interesting is like now over the last week, he started like going hard on putting MCPs for Okay. And all these things into his tool or into his AI. And immediately he... Like, when we were talking last night, he's like, I stopped going to help scouts UI. I stopped going to this UI, the honey badger. I stopped going to, you know, this thing. And he's like, I'm realizing, like, I didn't want to go to those... And he's like, literally my entire life has been being a UI person. And he's like, I'm realizing I don't wanna go to the UI anymore. I wanna go to a different interface Mhmm. Which is this interface where you just...

[00:09:08] Kris: Everything's connected. And and and again, my counter perspective would be is I think there's large segments of non technical that that will not maybe never get there. You just be... I know. Yeah. It's okay. I see you. See your word.

[00:09:26] John: No. I I just immediately disagree. I know they will eventually. Yeah. Because they'll have to or they'll be dodos.

[00:09:31] Kris: Right. And so I think the laggards is the big segment that's gonna take a long time. And so the, like, counting where we can grow the next six months or grow the next, you know, twelve months, Again, I'm fine with that vision because I like to go there too. A lot of the folks that I work with are more of non technical. I see that they're very far away from that.

[00:10:00] John: Yeah.

[00:10:00] Kris: You know, of just like in daily life and the stuff they're working on.

[00:10:04] John: I will say, Chatty Pouty though, 1,200,000,000 users. Yeah. Like it's not

[00:10:08] Kris: But they're just saying rewrite my email.

[00:10:12] John: Yes. How many how many... Now they're starting to install the plugin for Gmail. They're starting to

[00:10:18] Kris: Correct. Agree with

[00:10:20] John: in their calendars. And so I think that's that's where AI native our stuff needs to go is like you install the plugin for Firestone.

[00:10:27] Kris: Yeah. Do you ever... So you have told people, let's say here and your other friend, like online friends, you know, as you learn new things and as you... Like like what you just talked about, right?

[00:10:41] John: Yeah.

[00:10:42] Kris: Do you ever feel like... Or do you just forget? And I I have a specific instance. We won't we won't call them out. Maybe we will. Of like, where you taught someone something. Yeah. Let's say three months ago. And you actually moved on and changed something else that's actually better.

[00:10:56] John: Yeah.

[00:10:56] Kris: And then so that person you taught the thing to is now telling me about that old way and we're doing the new way. And I'm like, oh, should I tell him that he needs to like change it? Yeah. Now it's called Eric out. So, and then I just talked...

[00:11:12] John: We're talking Eric. I just talked to him, and and I told him the new way.

[00:11:15] Kris: So Okay. You did. Because it was funny because you only taught me the newest way. Right? So Yeah. And so then I've been using that. Eric's been using, let's say, your your previous version Yeah. Of things. Yeah. And so that's when we're going back and forth because he... Because he's helping me with some stuff. And I'm like, oh, like, should I tell him that there's this new thing that we're doing now?

[00:11:35] John: My my thing is, oh, you should always.

[00:11:37] Kris: Oh, I don't... I I wasn't gatekeeping it. Yeah. Like... Because I I don't wanna do that at all.

[00:11:41] John: Yeah.

[00:11:41] Kris: I just don't know. And I I wouldn't know enough to explain it.

[00:11:43] John: To explain why.

[00:11:44] Kris: And so... But it was interesting. I'm like, oh, I... I'm on two point o, and you're you're on 1.5.

[00:11:49] John: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:51] Kris: That's cool. It's funny.

[00:11:52] John: Well, I feel like and the reason, I guess, we're going into any of this is because what I what I've started noticing is I'm not going into the UIs. And so what I want is I want all... I use BoxOut for all my social posting. So, like, everything that I do goes through that. I use Fireside for all of my podcast. I use Flipper for all of my feature flags. I use Flare for all of my application performance monitoring. So, like, I want all of those tools to just all work together, but I don't wanna write every tool to have an integration to every other tool.

[00:12:21] Kris: Yeah.

[00:12:22] John: So instead, what I want is that integration point to be Codex and Claw. Yeah. And so, you know, for me personally, what that meant is I was just like, I'm gonna start pushing these forward selfishly for myself on the things that I need from each of these products. And it's gonna be, you know, API first so that other people can integrate if they want.

[00:12:41] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:12:41] John: And then MCP second because that's the best way to integrate right

[00:12:45] Kris: now

[00:12:45] John: with AI in the most user friendly way that doesn't involve, you know, being technical. You can just click a button and then sign in, click a button, and you're done. And now Claude or or Codex can just rip your stuff out. And so this morning, I got like kinda like the first version of that for Fireside. And so I could say like, you know, look at how many episodes does Standing in the Fire have? Oh, 17. Which one had the most downloads? Oh, it's this one. You know, which one's had had the most download in the last week? And it can be like, oh, it's this one. And it can do all that kind of stuff.

[00:13:19] Kris: So Which which... And and you're just saying that for... To get that information, not that that's... It take to... My my counter to that is it's interesting that it can pull all that.

[00:13:30] John: I

[00:13:30] Kris: also don't have to ask it every time to find that information. And we talked about we're gonna hopefully launch these emails is like, just want it there. It's fine that I can go find it, but it's it's actually work every time to go find it.

[00:13:43] John: But it's it would be except it's not because you can just set up a scheduled task.

[00:13:47] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:13:47] John: Just do that. You just say, hey. Every morning, I want a summary of my downloads. And it will just do that now if you have it installed. So... Which is kinda cool. And so then every morning, you get a push notification. You tap on it, and it says, ah, and it's like a nice worded thing with tables and data and stuff like that. So... But for now, like, we have the email download thing totally gonna happen. Like, I I think there's still... I don't know what it is. Six months, twelve months, two years where, like you said, the laggards are gonna be behind and you have to do both.

[00:14:14] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:14:15] John: But it's increasingly... I I will stake... I'm gonna plant my flag in the ground right now that there is gonna be a time in the next whatever it is, one, three, five years where chat or something better than chat is the new interface.

[00:14:30] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:14:30] John: And it is no longer clicking around in a web UI. Yeah. It's just not happening. So that's where I'm pushing the stuff based on what I selfishly want. And what I've seen in the past historically that has given me confidence is when I get excited about something, eventually everybody else does.

[00:14:45] Kris: Oh, oh, that's...

[00:14:46] John: Yeah. I hate to say it like it is, but I'm gonna say it like it is. We're not even that sparks fly yet, but but yeah, that's... I mean, I've just... I've noticed if I get really fired up about something and I tell other people about it, they're always like, whatever, Nunamaker, you're excited. You're stupid. And then eventually they're like, hey, I tried that thing and I really liked it. And I'm like, yes, I know. And so I'm just calling it right now. This is what's gonna happen. The more you use this stuff... And again, Garrett, whatever, eight months, a year ago, like anti AI and completely flipped them. There's a whole bunch of people upstairs I've flipped. So...

[00:15:20] Kris: Yeah. I was just thinking we need to get our YouTube integration going, but that's just...

[00:15:24] John: We do. Yeah. That's, and that's, I feel like that would even be a really interesting one to almost, AI first it and just see what happens

[00:15:31] Kris: and

[00:15:32] John: then have you try it that way and then be like, like, no. I... We we still need the web UI, obviously.

[00:15:37] Kris: Yeah.

[00:15:37] John: But what if we what if we tried something that way? Yeah. So so that's my my embers are basically working on, MTPs for all of my apps, and then APIs, really, and then MCP because that's just the way you integrate it easily with, with AI. And then, obviously, the other one, Fireside new theme. And then, a lot of other Fireside things too that are really exciting.

[00:16:00] Kris: The one... And I... If we talked about this not here last week, I apologize if, but I feel like we did. Did we talk about your friend who had, like, sixty minute builds with that?

[00:16:14] John: Oh, we... Yes.

[00:16:16] Kris: We did a little bit. I think we talked about a little So the up... So... Yep. What... When you told me or what you texted me was, you got it down to minutes? Yeah.

[00:16:25] John: And, like And it wasn't even me. I I just told...

[00:16:28] Kris: Gave him, like you're about to do. I gave him two prompts. Yeah. Context. One of one of his friends was... I I don't wanna explain it wrong.

[00:16:35] John: He he just... He's... So he's a marketer, but he's, like, owns, a dance studio. Yep. He's, like, vibing his own Yep. Like management software to like run the... All the studio and and all of his businesses and stuff like that. He's never been a programmer. He's like doing it from scratch. Yep. So he asked me what, you know, how many... How long should integration tests take, like, to run? And he's like, mine are taking an hour. And I'm like, mine are taking three to eight minutes. So I was like, no, you don't wanna take an hour. So I was like, hey, here are like three, four prompts. Throw them in. Just see what Claude can do. And I messaged him like couple days later and he was like, dude, you you saved me. They're like, they're finishing in four minutes.

[00:17:14] Kris: Yeah. I and and I need to maybe know what those are because I I noticed mine over the weekend were like eighteen minutes. I was like,

[00:17:22] John: ah, like Oh, that's great. You can get them down to usually around five.

[00:17:26] Kris: Yeah. They used to be. And that's why I don't know what was, I I was trying to just get some stuff merged, but like, I didn't know what was causing. Was like, ah, like, this is taking forever.

[00:17:33] John: The biggest thing I think is just like, LLMs love to add tests. And so Oh, okay. That's why I've made these jokes a lot in the last, I don't know, six months that, like

[00:17:43] Kris: Yeah.

[00:17:44] John: Should have started a continuous integration service. So basically, like, for the nontechnical people, that's the thing that runs the test every time you push code. So you push code, it runs the test, tells you if the test passed or failed. So that is basically like the best business to be in right now. Everyone is using all of their minutes and needing more minutes

[00:18:00] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:18:01] John: And spending more money on it because everything the LLM writes before you would write like maybe a couple tests

[00:18:07] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:18:07] John: Because you're like, well I don't want this to break.

[00:18:09] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:18:09] John: But you wouldn't write exhaustive tests because it's exhausting to write them.

[00:18:13] Kris: And so

[00:18:13] John: now it's not exhausting and LLMs love them. And so actually the new... I think the new thing is... Basically, there's a new skill in Gstack. I can't remember what it's called, but, somebody I was I was following online talked about this, how they they had this really long test suite, but a lot of the tests are, like, really low value, and they're noise. And so they were like, you... What you have to do is on a regular basis, you basically prompt, you know, AI, Codex Cloud to go through and remove the low value tests

[00:18:43] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:18:44] John: And try and move things up the stack with more, like, you know, higher, full all the way through tests and fewer of the lower level, like, unit stuff. So supposedly there's a new skill in GSTAC that just does it, and you can just run it, and it'll just strip some stuff out. So that might reduce it. And then there's other things. The other thing you wanna check on is is parallelizing them, which is relatively easy. Like, I'm pretty sure Clotter or Codex can do it.

[00:19:12] Kris: So Cool.

[00:19:14] John: Yeah. So those are the the, good old embers. Let's go... Okay. Now we're gonna go back to... Into the Fire. Mhmm. So what has been easy or hard in the past week?

[00:19:25] Kris: What's been easy or hard? What's been hard is I feel like everything. But I met with our friend Shane this week. He stopped by. We did, impromptu, like four hour session on just like, it was both vision, but also problem solving. And what was super helpful is, doing that with someone who's been through it before to like to not only understand like how you're feeling

[00:20:04] John: Yeah.

[00:20:04] Kris: But also then like here's how I would go about like if if this was me, here's what I would do. And I think doing that with someone who has has done it versus folks who have just observed it, you know, maybe invest in companies so they kind of see that like it's a very different, both experience and outcome, I think. And so it was really hard and there's a lot of work to do, but it was... I don't know. Having... Taking that time to not just trying to fight the fires that are happening and say, like, we need a block to ignore all that and figure out what the plan should be.

[00:20:42] John: Yeah.

[00:20:43] Kris: I think was really, really helpful. But... Yeah. What That makes sense. Yeah. What do you... I got I got other things, but I'll

[00:20:53] John: I was actually gonna say for me, I'm trying to... Like, I I... Hard has been maybe people, like

[00:21:01] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:21:01] John: Mhmm. And being... Because, like, most of my work now is very asynchronous because it's, like, put a thing in and it gets going on it. And so I, like, put put some thought in, and then it... The LLM starts working. I move on to the next thing. I put some thought into that, move on to the next thing. So it's very asynchronous, and you just kinda keep flowing through stuff. Mhmm. What's been hard is people and stuff like that are just very synchronous. It's very, like, everything stops, and that's all you gotta do. Because if you're doing other things while

[00:21:29] Kris: you're

[00:21:29] John: interacting with them, it's rude, number Yeah. And number two, you're not actually picking up what they're putting down.

[00:21:38] Kris: It was funny, I was walking out the other day and I I was it was it was maybe, like, 9AM. So I I was here probably at seven. I needed to get a ton of stuff done in the morning. And I was walking to go get my chai tea, like, because I leave to kinda do that as take a break. Yeah. And I was and as I was walking, I was responding to an email that was like, okay, cool. Like, I'll get this done. Because I was I was just highly productive. And someone says, good morning, Kris. And I I don't look up. I'm just like down. I said, like, good morning. And and the impression was that I was in a bad mood

[00:22:14] John: or

[00:22:15] Kris: Yeah. That I was, like, being rude because then I got a text later about it. But it wasn't that. It was just, like, I gotta do these things and with... And I don't know. So, anyway, it felt like it was... Because, like... I don't know.

[00:22:29] John: No. I see

[00:22:29] Kris: the parallel. Yeah. Does it see the parallel? That's why I was trying to create the parallel there. Yeah. I was just like, the people is different than if if someone else had texted me that, hey, good morning. I could ignore it. Keep doing my email and Yeah. And then respond to it when I got to the car. Yep. But in this case, yeah, it it can create some, challenges.

[00:22:47] John: And it's very easy. Feel like to get what... Like, again, the more and more you do these asynchronous things, they're convenient. Yeah. So then when you get the synchronous things, it's like, you know, like, and so I I think that's one thing that's kind of interesting. So, you know, people and just, like I was listening to... It's called Yagni, so it's you ain't gonna need it. It's like a programming thing. But a guy from Indy has a podcast, Matt Swanson, and he was interviewing Justin Searles, who's a consultant... Was a consultant of Test Double, big consultancy in in in Ohio, and has moved on now and just... Dunno I what he is now personality. We'll call Justin a personality. If you're listening Justin, that's what I think you are. But it was a great podcast. I loved what they were talking about and they were talking about AI and the future and people who are unhappy and what does that mean for them and all these kinds of things. You know a bunch of interesting insights about like you know there's so many great things now because you can build and do all these these wild things but then the downside it like you know the opposite side of that is like now all the people stuff sometimes feels harder because it's it's not so easy. Because you can just tell the agent, do the thing. It doesn't have feelings. Yeah. I feel like that's the thing that, like, that I keep realizing, you know, lately is like, like, can shut down the emotional side and I can literally just rip with AI. But with people, you can't do that. And so then it's like, oh, god. I gotta get this muscle out and use it again. And so so that's been a little bit hard. I've noticed that. And then what's been easy? Feel like what's been easy is just, like, getting stuff done. Like, I I just, like, you know, I talked about it last time. I dumped all of the context that I had about everything that I do work career wise into, you know, OneNote. It's pinned to the top. Leave it at the top. Anytime I do anything, I tell it that I did a thing, and it checks things off and stuff. It's got its own repo in GitHub, a markdown file. It's private because nobody else needs to see it. And I've just been putting everything in there and then I tell it what to, you know, I like to say, okay, what's next? And it's like, well, would do this next. And I'm like, yeah, that, that makes sense. And then I do that thing next. And so I've just been clear in the

[00:24:57] Kris: deck,

[00:24:59] John: on repeat. And I think that's been

[00:25:01] Kris: It's better than my word doc

[00:25:02] John: that

[00:25:03] Kris: gets

[00:25:03] John: too long.

[00:25:04] Kris: And then I delete it when I get too overwhelmed with it and start a new one.

[00:25:08] John: Does Microsoft have, like, AI? Okay. So that's an interesting point. Okay. So you're like, it gets too long and then I start a new one. Because as a human, seeing all the open loops all the time is extremely stressful.

[00:25:21] Kris: Yeah.

[00:25:21] John: Okay. We've talked about this from an AI standpoint What as I think is great about putting all this stuff into a single task or thread or whatever you wanna call it in in AI is that then all that context disappears. All those open loops that are sitting there Mhmm. They're gone. You can put as many thoughts and things into them as possible, and it's... You're... All you're gonna do... You could go and look at that markdown file and see the, you know, 800 things on it, But like, you're not gonna do that. You're just gonna ignore that. Instead, you're just gonna be having a conversation with your project manager to say, okay, what's next on the list? And is there anything I can tiny, I can parallelize with it? Yeah.

[00:26:02] Kris: Well, and I also think I tried to do this because I heard someone talk about it of, like, what are the three things I have to get done today?

[00:26:10] John: Uh-huh.

[00:26:10] Kris: And I've I I'm not always good at picking those out, like, the day before, but when I do, and then I will even tell the team, I understand that you want me to do this thing. I have... Like, I can't end the day until I get these three things done because they are the top three things, and everything else doesn't matter. And I think... And it... I feel a difference when I do that successfully. Yeah. Both creating those three things. And there's not... They don't always have to be, like, huge. It's just those are things that have to get done. Yeah. And then accomplishing them. But it's... It takes a prep typically the the the night before the day before to say, these things I know are tomorrow priorities.

[00:26:46] John: And about this thing. Like, so I need to do this, but, like, it's not urgent right now. Correct. So put it into my slot.

[00:27:11] Kris: Which means it's not important. It's just not urgent.

[00:27:13] John: Yeah. So, like, put it in a slot that makes sense. And what do I need to stay focused on? You know? And and so it was, like, the database thing, and then it was, this other thing. And so, I just cleared the deck on all those And then as other things come up, I can say, does this need to be addressed right now? Or is this just something I want to do because I like that kind of work?

[00:27:31] Kris: And

[00:27:31] John: so then I, you know, lose three hours because I spent time on it or something. So so it's it's been really good because it's it's just like I can be like, no. I I'm... I hear you. It's in my task list. I'll get to it when I have time. You can text me about it if you want to again, and I'm still gonna do it in the same

[00:27:47] Kris: order

[00:27:47] John: no matter what, because this is what I have to do right now. Yeah. This is the next most important thing. Oops. Needle. So, yeah, that's been super helpful as well. So what else? What else you got? That's been going easy or hard?

[00:28:00] Kris: What's been going easy or hard? I think the... Well, what's been going hard is I I mentioned this the other day, which, like, the the sleep, it's not been going... It's been hard. And I don't know if it's because there's too many ideas and thoughts that are just not getting down somewhere. And so then I feel like I have to think about them to remember them, which is not... I know that's not like... Write it down. So I'll get it down somewhere. And so then waking up is always like... And I get up decently early, but I'm noticing of needing to wake up excited, and I'm not doing that right now. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm... And how do I get back to that? Yeah. It's it's almost like a wake up of... Dread is probably like an extreme word to use for it.

[00:28:46] John: But it's...

[00:28:47] Kris: Yeah. And so how to shifting that... Over the weekend, I was thinking a lot about like, what are the things that are frustrating that... And and what's contributing to it and how to get out of that. Yeah. And it's... I don't know.

[00:29:00] John: That's healthy. That's... I mean, that's like... I feel like most people just wake up with dread.

[00:29:06] Kris: Yeah.

[00:29:06] John: And they keep waking up with dread for whatever reason. Yeah. They don't sit there and be like, why do I feel dread? What's causing this? And how can I affect what is? Because most... A lot of problems are actually in the purview of the person experiencing the problem and they have control over would agree. Just don't realize they have control over it.

[00:29:28] Kris: I mean, I was gonna save this for the different... One of the things that was keeping me up, I remember a few days ago was I wanted to make an ask to someone for a thing that I think is... It's not a big ask, but it's one that I know is calling in like a favor sort of thing. And I kept thinking about what should it... And it was only gonna be a text message. I was not gonna send an email. It's a friend, but I was trying to ask a favor. And finally, yesterday, I did it, And they responded, like, almost immediately with a positive response. Yeah. And I was like

[00:30:07] John: Why did I dread this for so long?

[00:30:08] Kris: Yes. And why it take me so long to and I'm

[00:30:10] John: like because you don't have an AI project manager.

[00:30:13] Kris: And it made me think of... Now now I'm trying to get the motive. I don't I don't know if you've heard, I think she's set up some interviews. You know Barbara Corcoran? Yeah. Which was Shark Tank. Yeah. Of course. When she was trying to get that position on Shark Tank, she she had... Like, wasn't like they asked her and they offered it to her and that sort of thing. Like her experience with that

[00:30:31] John: was

[00:30:32] Kris: she had to pitch herself

[00:30:34] John: hard

[00:30:35] Kris: to get that role and convince them that she was the person. I think maybe she didn't even get it first.

[00:30:41] John: And she was great.

[00:30:41] Kris: Yeah. And so I think like, oh, if I want these things and I think these... And I'm right the... Am I the right person for the thing or to this other... Like, don't be afraid to

[00:30:51] John: ask

[00:30:52] Kris: Yeah. Because someone else will. And and if if I keep... And someone might say no. If they say no, that's fine.

[00:30:58] John: Yeah. Now you can move on.

[00:30:59] Kris: I can move on. I don't, I don't think about it. Yeah. But, but I want to start being a little bit more, maybe aggressive on the asks that I think are the correct asks to make versus worrying about how the other person's going to respond.

[00:31:14] John: I think you could probably be 25 to 50% more aggressive and you would get up to like average. So it's like, you've always struck me as not aggressive at all.

[00:31:22] Kris: Agree. Yeah.

[00:31:23] John: Very often I'm like, did he just ask me something or not? I'm not actually sure. And so like I have to clarify like, you asking me something or telling I me know. So definitely go on the aggressive side. I can see that.

[00:31:35] Kris: That's really funny.

[00:31:37] John: The other thing I was thinking too is you're in luck because I'm a sleep coach.

[00:31:40] Kris: Oh, nice.

[00:31:41] John: Like I basically because

[00:31:43] Kris: I

[00:31:44] John: was a effectively a champion sleeper until I had kids.

[00:31:48] Kris: Yeah.

[00:31:48] John: Like, literally, you know, we've talked about this in the past, but, like, there was a a product called the WakeMate, you know, way back in the day before WHOOP and all this, ended up having, like, combustible fires and, like, they had shut down. But I wore it for a long time and never caught on fire. And they had a leaderboard and they would score your sleep. And, like, my wife would wake up with it, like, off and scoring, like, you know, a 60 out of a 100. And I would wake up with, like, consistently, like, 99 out of a 100 or sometimes even a 100. And, was always one or two on the leaderboard. And I just believe the other person's probably just, like, cheating. So like, sleep has always been very important to me. Then we had kids and obviously like it just gets destroyed. And then you you know, I I sleep lighter because I'm like, Did... Was that crack... Creaking cracking sound like them walking down the hallway or whatever. And so I focused a lot on sleep. I've noticed, you know, we've talked about caffeine before, so obviously that's like an obvious tip. Yeah. Lots of people are like, no caffeine doesn't affect me because I can drink it all the way till 8PM and then go to sleep and I fall asleep no problem. And I'm like, and then you wake up at two or 3AM? And they're like, oh, yeah. That's not the caffeine.

[00:32:55] Kris: What boggles me and so, yeah, we had this sleep therapy session is, so as we all know and as we can see, I haven't had Diet Coke in view for a couple of... For a number of episodes. And it's been months since I've drank Diet

[00:33:11] John: Coke.

[00:33:11] Kris: Yeah. And I will get a chai tea just because it's now becoming a routine. Like, I go to access the screen print shop. It's on the way here. It's a nice little stop in. I see people I know. And, you know, just... It's kinda social too. And we don't have chai tea. We have everything, but we don't have chai tea lattes here.

[00:33:27] John: I mean... Should just do that.... The correct

[00:33:29] Kris: is better

[00:33:30] John: than cream, sickle, sugar or whatever. Right. Yeah. I don't like that flavor.

[00:33:34] Kris: Well, I'll have to give that feedback then because, like... And so I think that has some caffeine in it. Yeah. But that's, like, at 9AM. I I would never get one past, like, 10AM just because Yep. It... That's a morning drink for... To me. And, like, I was awake until, like, one... And I don't stay up to 1AM. I go to bed, like, at ten. And when I when I lay down at ten, like, it felt like I had, like, caffeine that day. Like, I got gaffed for 4PM. And I don't know what, like, yeah. And that's happened a couple days where I just don't feel tired. Yeah. Or my eye, like, I'm tired, but it, like, you know, just

[00:34:08] John: Can't fall asleep. Yeah. Your brain won't shut off.

[00:34:09] Kris: Yeah. And and you feel like you... That even closing your eyes can feel like you're closing your eyes, like, midday. If that makes sense. It doesn't feel like you're closing your eyes at night.

[00:34:17] John: Oh, I think another way that I would put it is like, I close my eyes and like, I I kind of feel like I'm trying to fall asleep with like like, you know, on the Serengeti with like Yeah. A lion like 20 feet away. You know, like, you're just aware of everything. Yeah. It's like your your body is like something bad could happen.

[00:34:39] Kris: Yep.

[00:34:39] John: Like, you can't... I I'm not actually sitting there thinking anything bad can happen. I don't have any thoughts in my head that are bad. But like, it's like my body just will not let go and be like, no, actually, you can go to sleep now. It's fine. You're safe. You're you're in a walled thing, you know, like nothing bad's gonna happen. But I feel like caffeine, obviously. Second thing is how late you work in the night.

[00:35:00] Kris: Yeah.

[00:35:00] John: So if you're working until 09:30 and then you go to bed, that doesn't work. Yeah.

[00:35:05] Kris: I know. I, yeah. I, I don't know how, when, again, this is probably, it's a little bit back to over the weekend when I was trying to think through changing... Like, if you wanna change your life and and then change your routines because you've gotten routines more out of habit than what Yeah. What maybe what they should be Yeah. Is breaking away from those seems hard. Yeah. It's either other people are like, oh, I can just have them do this thing and it'll be quick. And I'm like, I don't wanna... I don't have capacity to do that thing anymore. And so maybe there's boundaries there that that are not happening. Yeah. And also just saying, like, my observation of you might be, so you went camping recently. Yeah. And I know you were doing some work, also just like probably not worrying or thinking about, well, I could be wrong though. Like, this stuff going on here. You went somewhere else and you're not thinking about it. I don't know the last time I did that.

[00:36:02] John: Oh, you went somewhere else?

[00:36:03] Kris: Or just or just didn't worry or think about what was happening in the vista fears, you know, that I was in. Yeah. And and now something like, oh, I need some of that.

[00:36:12] John: Yeah. It has to happen because otherwise your brain... Again, it's basically just increasing cortisol and stress. Yeah. And it never goes away. And again, I know we have different Instagram feeds, but my whole Instagram feed is basically just like I

[00:36:27] Kris: won't tell them what I think yours is.

[00:36:28] John: Exactly. But it's just cortisol is like the worst Yeah. For you, like

[00:36:32] Kris: longevity wise. I think I I think I and I think I started to see something about that, and I was trying to, like, Google, like, what lowers it and then I couldn't... Yeah.

[00:36:39] John: Mean it's it's like obvious things. So like walks. Yeah. You know like walking a lot. Yep. Completely reshapes your brain. It's really good. Sunlight first thing in the morning.

[00:36:49] Kris: Mhmm.

[00:36:50] John: So just you know go out topless in the morning and just soak in all the... Even in the winter, you're supposed to do it. The problem, we have

[00:36:57] Kris: gray

[00:36:57] John: all winter. So we can't get the sun in the winter. There's... You gotta do other stuff like vitamin D supplements, things like that. But, a big thing I feel like is, you know, they talk about the morning sun walks, exercises. Yeah. And like long ones, even ten minutes to, you know, two, three times a day helps. Yeah. But like an hour walk does different things to your brain. A two hour walk does different things to your brain than, you know, the other. Mhmm. And then additionally, you know, beyond that, again, these are all... It's like Alex Tremozi. It's like I'm reading Jason Cohen's book right now. Okay. Which book? It's, Hidden Multipliers. Okay. And so it's WP Engine guy. Yeah. And I'm like, you can read the books and you're like, yeah. I mean, that's that's so obvious and stupid. Like, why is this even a book? You know? But it's because people don't just do it.

[00:37:43] Kris: They don't.

[00:37:44] John: And for sleep, I feel like the most obvious thing is you gotta find a way to shut off. Like, if you're going to bed at ten or 10:30, don't be on screens at 08:00. Maybe you can watch

[00:37:53] Kris: TV.

[00:37:53] John: I think people can get away with that.

[00:37:55] Kris: But

[00:37:56] John: I think you have to do something that forces your brain. When I start to feel the vibration or the rattle is when I leave no time for my brain to just process it. Which means I'm making prompts all the way till ten to nine.

[00:38:10] Kris: That's what's hard to say. I, I like to not feel guilty. Yeah. Like internally feel guilty of like not doing a thing. Whatever that thing is like, is it like to sit and be, read a book or, you know, water plants or clean your house? Is not something that I feel comfortable in right now.

[00:38:33] John: Yeah. But most of the work that you are doing is not moving the needle. Like, there's only a few things, like you said, the three things that move the needle. So that's again, go back to to the AI, project manager, however your process is. You need a process to say, these are the things that will move the needle, that I believe will move the And then you need to do those things, rip off the band aid. So like a lot of people say, what you do is you just sell... You do a three, two, one, and then you just do it.

[00:39:00] Kris: In in... Well, and I was thinking, like, Alex Ramosy, and I'm like, okay. I should... For any of the things we're working on, I'll say. Like, it's not specific to Momentum. But, you know, he's like, nine... I forget if it's ninety minutes a whatever the number is, ninety minutes a day. If you do outreach, if you do creating content, do cold outreach, or what... He has a third thing that that's like for sales related. Okay. Ninety minutes. Yeah. And like, you will... How many people you'll be able to reach out to and reach? If you do that for consistently every day, you will be so much further along.

[00:39:32] John: And

[00:39:33] Kris: even if I spent thirty minutes doing it, it's like, one bugged me, next thirty minutes, I'm gonna find, you

[00:39:38] John: know,

[00:39:39] Kris: it is and just do that. But it's hard to not get interrupted and all those things, it's creating some boundary to do that.

[00:39:46] John: Our brains... Have you read Thinking Fast and Slow?

[00:39:50] Kris: I have not recently.

[00:39:52] John: Yeah. It was a long time ago for me too, but like our brains want to not think. They want to just be in a habit because habits use the least amount of calories and the least amount of effort and energy. Know, to use... To go from, like, this is a habit to, like, you know, this is my brain actively thinking and solving and Mhmm. You know, aware. It's like, I don't remember a thousand times more energy being consumed. So like generally, mean, I think that's the biggest difference between people who get in ruts and people who keep, you know, solving their own problems and making a difference is just spending that little bit of extra time to be like, Okay, how did this day go? Did I actually do what I wanted to do? Or did I just do what my environment dictated?

[00:40:39] Kris: Right. Yes.

[00:40:40] John: And then you have to be like, the next day, it's not gonna immediately change overnight, but the next day you have to be like, this is the one thing that I'm gonna do that's... That I'm not gonna let my environment dictate and blah blah blah, you know? And I just feel like it's... It is a very small and simple thing, but it's not easy.

[00:40:57] Kris: Right.

[00:40:57] John: It's not easy to do that. So... Yeah. I not... Yeah. Yeah. So... I don't know how

[00:41:04] Kris: we got...

[00:41:05] John: Know, I talked Wait. Wait. What's section we're on?... Future, and you were just like, you know... No. I'm just kidding. So that was just like what's easy and hard

[00:41:12] Kris: and Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:14] John: Yeah. Do we have any hot takes?

[00:41:16] Kris: Oh, hot takes.

[00:41:21] John: We're gonna let some sparks fly. I'll give my hot take.

[00:41:23] Kris: Yeah.

[00:41:23] John: Give yours. I don't remember what my hot take was last time. I was gonna check. So if it's the same one, sorry folks. My hot take is actually I don't hate Claude anymore.

[00:41:33] Kris: Interesting.

[00:41:34] John: About two months ago, was like Claude is the worst.

[00:41:37] Kris: So slow.

[00:41:38] John: Yeah. It's so, like, annoying to parse through and read what it's saying, its output. Yeah. Like, the words it's using, you know, load bearing and all the... There's all these words that we'd soak, that we joke about as like Yep. People using Claude and what it says. And I just didn't like it. And then Opus 5.5 came out and it's just... It's in... I have a... Just a 5x account. Cause I have... I do most of my stuff in Codex. Yeah. But I have found I've been shifting and a lot more of my stuff is happening in Opus.

[00:42:10] Kris: And

[00:42:10] John: I'll have three or four things at any given time that are happening there. And it's just really efficient. Like, I have a five x plan. I'll have three or four things every day that I'm nudging forward. And I'm, like, 25 or 50% through my credits in the appropriate amount of time. Like Mhmm. Like, have... I could do way more. And I'm like, that's just with a 5x. That's not even with a 20x account. I'm like, this is insane. It's like... And I've started... And occasionally I'll use Fable when I'm not... When I... It's a really hard problem and I want it to be right. Or if I've used Opus for a while and then it just doesn't feel like it's solving

[00:42:50] Kris: it

[00:42:50] John: simply I'll spin a whole new task up like unrelated to that one it doesn't have any knowledge of that one and just start over with Fable and see how it does. I've done that a few times and it's been a dramatic improvement. But I think that's my hot take. I'm kind of back on the Claude bandwagon. The Mac app is terrible compared to Codex. It has so many weird, crappy things with it, especially if you have multiple computers, which I... That's how I operate. But overall, if you're just using Opus 5.5, it's, I think it's one of the

[00:43:28] Kris: best

[00:43:28] John: running models right now. It's really I, from scratch on Saturday, while feeling run down with a nasty cold and stuff like that, watching the football game, I made like a clone of

[00:43:43] Kris: Yahtzee

[00:43:45] John: called Five Dice. And it's incredible. Like, again, for the YouTube folks, can see this. For the audio folks, you can't. You know? Oh wow. Like Yeah. This is this is my Yahtzee clone. And so like, you know, you tap. You can tap to, have things come back and forth. Oh no rolls left. I gotta pick a score. Sorry. So in this one I'll just do chance And I'll... But like when you hold the hold the thing and hit roll. Did you feel the haptic?

[00:44:13] Kris: Hold on.

[00:44:14] John: Oh, yeah. Did you feel it? Yeah. There's just like a real subtle haptic every time you roll. Yeah. It's got really good information density. You can change it to like.

[00:44:23] Kris: We should create a new... Know, every... This is related. Yeah. Hit me. Every blackjack app Oh. Is the worst. They're the worst.

[00:44:34] John: Totally, dude.

[00:44:34] Kris: I can't find... Kill it. Yeah. It just feels like they do too much animation stuff. They do too... They have, like, people sitting around a table. Like, it's like, I don't want all that. And then and then there's pop ups and Yep. All the stuff. Like, I just wanna practice, like, before I go to a casino. Like, am I making the right calls?

[00:44:50] John: Yes.

[00:44:50] Kris: And have it not feel like it's a nineteen nineties Yeah. Interface. Because it... There are some that just do that, but they they feel so like that green screen that, you know, from, like, the early two thousands. I mean And Steph and my

[00:45:03] John: my in laws will sit around the fire, and they'll all download, you know, Yazzy, which doesn't have the letters because of trademarks and stuff. And they play it. And the interface the interface is so bad.

[00:45:15] Kris: Yeah.

[00:45:15] John: Yeah. And I was like, how do you, like, how do you roll? How do you do... I couldn't figure out how to use it, and it's got ads all over it.

[00:45:22] Kris: Yeah. I know.

[00:45:23] John: And I was like, you know what? I'm just just for for them. Right. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get it all over

[00:45:29] Kris: the store. Okay. Here's another one we could do. And even if it's just for one person Yeah. And it could be for my dad.

[00:45:36] John: Pain collecting?

[00:45:36] Kris: Or No. No. No. No. He's still... And he loves... This this will be a throwback. Yeah. Words With

[00:45:41] John: Friends. Mhmm.

[00:45:43] Kris: He still plays.

[00:45:44] John: Nice.

[00:45:44] Kris: I love it. Which is totally fine. And and, like, that part's not not the... It's when... Like, we're not all in the car together that often. Yeah. Like, mom, my dad, and myself. But when we are, I'll sometimes drive.

[00:45:57] John: Yeah.

[00:45:57] Kris: And he'll... His... It's it's it's typically his car. So his phone his iPhone will be plugged in for the navigation or whatever. And then he'll be playing, and we can hear the ads to the whole car. Oh, no. And it is so frustrating. That's the worst. It's like, if we could just get that game Yeah. That he can play without all the ads. And I think you can pay... I I I don't know. I think even if you pay for, like, to get removed the ads, like, once in a while, will still show you ads in the in the game itself. But, like, getting a version where we don't have to hear the ads, I think, would make our family more

[00:46:29] John: I mean harmonious.

[00:46:30] Kris: I know how the sausage is made.

[00:46:31] John: I mean, I I

[00:46:32] Kris: I

[00:46:32] John: I

[00:46:32] Kris: made

[00:46:32] John: this sausage. So, yeah, I definitely... I feel like that would probably not be very hard these days. Yeah. The the cool thing about this game is, like, it's just on your phone. I've never done iOS in my life, and I made an iOS game that's legit. It's super cool.

[00:46:46] Kris: I wonder if we could make...

[00:46:48] John: Eric

[00:46:48] Kris: and I worked on this like

[00:46:51] John: two

[00:46:52] Kris: years ago to have a speaker deck download thing. Offline. And we stumbled into a couple of things that would, we knew the use case, like a 100%, understood the user who wanted this and why they wanted it. And there was just some like stumbling of, yeah, it will work, but it may not work all the time sort of thing because there's a caching thing and I'm like, oh, we should go back to that because, yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:21] John: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:21] Kris: Like it's

[00:47:22] John: like, I mean, from scratch, I just made this iOS app. Garrett made an iOS app over the weekend to help coach his girls that are playing basketball, that he coaches. I'll shoot a better free throw. It's a video and looks at them. It connects all the dots.

[00:47:38] Kris: And I told Steven, one of our new folks, like, were trying to come up with a task manager. We've used Kanban boards. There's plenty of them out there. Right? So we don't need to recreate that. And so I told him, don't create that. As you see what we're doing, if you can create something specific that solves only our problem, like that we're having, let's say, it's planning events and that only fits our space, I would help us, like, build in your free time, like, build that thing because that will be super helpful. We don't need to build what exists, but if if we're dealing with all this data for planning an event for the Tahoe side and what's the... Should the setup be? Because I've heard from other event planners, there aren't really good tools. Yeah. And if they're full time event planners for what they're needing, we don't have to go investigate them and pay a lot of money for something that's not gonna work. Let's just build something that literally works for our, you know, 2,000 square feet. And I... Like, that's what's interesting. I've never done that to to like and just solve our problem, make it a really good solution to it. But I think it's gonna be really easy now to do those sorts of things.

[00:48:44] John: Well, it's crazy easy to build something

[00:48:46] Kris: that

[00:48:47] John: I don't know anything about the code because I then I don't look at the code. Because I I test like you test. Yeah. I'm just like, does it do the thing I wanted to do or Right. It does. Cool. Then it's what... Then it works. Yeah. It's it's a success. Yeah. And I was like, maybe I need to stop doing rails because I keep... With rails, I'm like, nope, that's wrong. You did a wrong thing. Yeah. You know? I'm sure it's better that way, but yeah, there has been this side of me that's like, maybe I just need to like program in languages that I don't know

[00:49:15] Kris: so

[00:49:16] John: that I don't care or look at the code. See it like a black box.

[00:49:19] Kris: Interesting.

[00:49:20] John: But iOS is super cool and easy. That's probably a little bit of like a recommendation as well, guess, if we're gonna go into fan the flames and recommendations is like two, you know, two things. One, it's super easy to make the the Opus 5.5. I've told several people this. The, like, intro videos, like, does your product service offering consultancy do? And it'll make these really quick, awesome, little demo videos where it breaks down what you do and how you help people and what's better and different. So that's really cool with Opus 5.5. And then I also used Opus five point... I used Opus 5.5 and Codex for this iOS Yahtzee game. Five Guys. Sorry. Trademarks.

[00:49:57] Kris: Yep.

[00:49:57] John: And it... Codex was ugly. I mean, and I tried to, like, help it not be ugly. Yeah. Claude first shot at, like, a gorgeous version of it. And I was like, yes. Make this. It was like, you probably want like a felt, like you're throwing the dice on a felt, and you probably want, you know, brown, like the leather. And I was like, yeah. And I'm like, I also want like another color that... Because my wife will want something other than green.

[00:50:22] Kris: Yeah.

[00:50:22] John: Yeah. And it was like, how about plum? And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, that's nice. You know? But what's cool is, like, you can build a thing like that in, like, I mean, a couple hours. And, like, I had never made anything in iOS. No. I didn't even have Xcode on my laptop. I had never ran the simulator. Or anything. They did all of it, built it all just from me kind of prompting while feeling like trash. Yep. And then I was like, oh cool. Well now I can actually like... I can add twists. Mhmm. I think that's what I'm really excited about. It's like...

[00:50:50] Kris: Interesting.

[00:50:51] John: Yeah. We were talking about them at lunch. Steve had some great ideas for Twist. He was like, what you should do is like... His two ideas were, you know, like, my my idea was like, well, one Twist is like, it's like location based. Like, if you're all sitting around a fire in a car, you can just all connect to each other Yep. And start a game with all three of you and blah blah blah. Yep. So I'm like, that's an obvious one. Doesn't require an online server or anything. Steve's idea was whoever finishes first gets like 20 points. So it's like, it's also like a race. Yeah. So there's extra things that are unrelated to, you know Yep. The trademarked gameplay of this game. And then another great idea he had was, like, if you have a certain number of people, like five or six, whoever gets one of the, like like, sixes, nobody else can have sixes then. So it's like you're trying to get your highest score but if you get like three sixes and you wanna use that on your upper you can't. Yeah. And then you're like oh crap like you know Kris already got his upper sixes. So you have to look at what other people are doing in addition to just yourself to make it more, like, interactive with other people. And I was like, great ideas. So those are probably where I'll I'll twist it later. But that's kind of my, fan of the flame is like, things are totally possible now that were not before these models and you can build iOS stuff. Like we're starting to build iOS for, Box Out and things like that, which we've always put off before. Now it's like, no, it's actually not. Yeah. It's not hard.

[00:52:11] Kris: Yeah. Interesting.

[00:52:12] John: So... How about you? Any recommendations?

[00:52:14] Kris: Well, I would say it's more just with the theme of some of the stuff we've talked about is JFDI. Just, just do it, do the, do the thing, whatever it might be like, don't get caught in analysis paralysis. And I and I say that more from... I know that's that's a general recommendation, but it's served me positively in the last week since our last episode. And so I wanted... I'm trying to do that more. That that that would be the

[00:52:47] John: the the probably the one that I would hang on. I like it. I was trying to look up a quote related to that. I can't find it. It's basically that, like, rumination, is the root of all evil. It's like thinking about things. Only with action do we truly find what the next step needs to be and move forward. It's from How to Kill a Hydra, which I've talked about other places a lot. It's a great book about the creative process. First half of the book is basically a hero who tries to fight and kill a Hydra, and the second half is this is how what he was doing is exactly how you should attack the creative process. Fantastic book. I I like the quote so much that I put it on a yeti. Nice. And so, yeah, like every morning I see that and I'm like, yeah, rumination is the... Basically the root of all evil. Like, you gotta take action. So... And I... I'm the worst at this as well. I think we're both overthinkers. So Yep. I think that's a good good recommendation. Any others?

[00:53:48] Kris: I think that's what I have for now.

[00:53:50] John: Yeah. We're at that point.

[00:53:54] Kris: We're at that point where if you did enjoy it, if you didn't enjoy it, just subscribe. Give us a comment.

[00:54:01] John: Our second comment.

[00:54:02] Kris: Give us a second. Give us second comment.

[00:54:04] John: Yeah.

[00:54:06] Kris: And let us know what you think. Helps the algorithm.