Hi. Welcome to beer with geeks for two geeks, but three geeks, geek out with beer. I'm Tim, and with me as always is Frank. And also joining us today is our good friend from the podcasting world, Justin Factor. How are you today?

I'm excellent because this is the first time in the history of me appearing on Beer with Geeks. I have a beer. I can't it's not root beer.

It's not root beer.

This is history in the making.

History in the Saint Patrick's Day miracle.

Yes. That's what this is. Yes. What? I can't wait.

Justin, we'll start with you. What what beer are you drinking?

Well, I have a Spider Man connection today because I learned and I found out that Tom Holland has a non alcoholic beer that he is the founder, creator, and never duplicator of Beer Row with his brother. He's got this beer company. So I said, let me try this nonalcoholic beer for the first time for Tim and Frank on Beer with Geeks. I gots to see what this tastes like. So today, in honor of the geeks, I just spilled it all over my computer.

Oh, no.

Alright.

Well, you weren't gonna use that keyboard anyway.

Right?

So whoo.

Okay.

Was it worth it? Is it good?

Well, I gotta say this is not bad. Might be something that I go back to. It's got that beer taste that I don't really love, but I'm trying it out. This is called Kingston Golden Pills.

So, yeah, for the for the first time, this is not a bad sip.

All right.

B r e b e r o.

I should have brought it came with like a little Tom Holland collectible card, and he's like, hey, guys. This is what I'm up with my my mates. He had the the whole thing was like British talk. I was like, woah, this is great.

You're warm. Yeah.

He's like, this is what I I should have read it. I should have brought it. It was like, this is what me mates and I drink when we're going down to the pubs. And I was like, oh, man, this is great. I love it.

It does not shock me that Tom Holland drinks nonalcoholic beer. He's got a Spidey costume. So, you know, that that makes a lot of sense to me.

Yeah. What's the what's the nutritionals? There's nothing on here.

This they might not be on there.

I was going say I was going to say traditionally, does nonalcoholic beer have less calories? Is that I don't know. Often.

Not always. Okay.

Yeah. I think it's I think it it it often does, but that I don't think that's necessarily a given because it's still it's still malt. It's still liquid bread just with the the the alcohol that gets. Yeah. Created by product usually removes.

Ingredients water, malted barley, hops and yeast.

There you go. Yeah. Yeah. So that's all the that's all the ingredients of beer. It's just the alcohol removed.

Also, best served cold with friends, and it's cold. And I've got two friends. Hey.

So this is great.

Oh, cheers.

Here's to you.

And what have you what have you got there?

I have, an amber ale from the Newport Craft Brewing Distilling Company. They just crafted right on here in Newport, Rhode Island. This is their Red Tailed Hawk beer. And it says, this beer is no roadie chicken. It is a full bodied or ale that will have your taste buds screaming proudly and soaring high with notes of citrus, fruity flavors, and a pop of pitch pine. This malted barley ale pours as proudly as the red tailed raptor that calls our brewery home. Whether the leaves are turning amber or you feel like falling into a pint, it's always a good time to heed the call of the hawk.

Know, so obviously my pick for, you know, today's episode was about DCKO was Hawkman, which is why I chose this beer. Everybody's favorite Hawkman.

It sounds great. Whoever the copywriter was on that, give him a raise. That sounds or give her a raise. That sounds fantastic.

Yeah. Right. That's a good a good piece of copy. Thanks, chat GPT for writing. Yeah.

No. That was that was good. That's a very vivid description. A very what was it? Red tailed hawk? Is that you said?

Red tailed hawk. Red tailed hawk. Yeah. Which are is local to Rhode Island.

So Right. Right. Oh, nice.

Yeah. Good. Yeah. There's one that soars around my house every morning.

Yeah. Oh, nice.

Yep. Well, I am at a disadvantage because I gave up alcohol for Lent. We are still in Lent.

So I have been, enjoying all kinds of very you know, this is very funny because, like, back when I arrived bureau, Frank.

I know. Right? Well, if I had known.

Now we were coordinating. But I, I have, an, an Olipop grape soda, with prebiotics, botanicals, and plant fiber. So, you know, it's good.

And let me tell you, it's pretty great.

Yeah, Frank.

It's great to hear that, Frank.

Frank is the king of puns.

I love it.

I'm grateful.

I'm grateful for that.

So that's a real knockout.

Yeah.

Very good. Yeah.

So Well, friends, companions, and allies. Right, is what you were gonna we were gonna go into. Right?

Exactly. Yeah. Because what brings us together today is something that brings the three of us together, more often than anything else, which is to say comic books.

We have all just finished reading DC, DC's big tentpole event, KO, and, we've read issues, all issues one through five. We will probably get into spoiling that at some point pretty soon here. So if you have not read DCKO, I would say, you know, we'll we'll we'll try to be spoiler free for a couple minutes here before we get into it. But I would very much encourage you to read it to be able to enjoy this discussion because I think we're gonna we're gonna have some things to say. This event this is the first DC event that I have really sunk my teeth into in a couple of years, a few years.

And it's it's because of the two of you guys keeping me accountable on it that I've that I've kept up with it. So it was fun to take part in a DC major event while it was happening for the first time in a while. I'm I'm curious.

We've talked about it a little bit over on the this Comic Cooks feed.

I I guess let's start with with you, Vaktor, on what what your experience of the whole story has been and and how you how it struck you now that we've we've read start to finish. What were your impressions?

Starting out, this was the least hyped for an event that I have been in quite a while because it felt like it was going to be it was going to have no substance. It was just going to be all right.

Bang bang. Punch punch. And there was nothing underneath it. There was no there there. And pleasantly surprised, even from issue one, I felt like there was always something cooking underneath. There was always another layer to DCKO as it progressed. And I was reading all of the tie in books, which I I had I used to do that all the time where I was reading I would read Civil War, you know, every tie in, Infinite Crisis, every tie in.

As I progressed in my, both financially and also my time, I just didn't keep up with a lot of stuff because the I found that the tie ins on a lot of these event books were just filler. There was no meat to the bone. And with DCKO, I found all of the tie ins to be pleasantly, a pleasant surprise. And even the boss battle one where it was like, all right, we're throwing in Mortal Kombat.

We're throwing in the boys. We're throwing in all of these different things. Annabelle, that was so much fun to me. And it felt like being a kid again.

It felt like playing with your action figures and having those power fantasies all over again.

On top of that, I feel like DCKO is a Superman event, and we all have great love in our hearts for Superman. So I felt like this event in particular was perfect for where I'm at in my life right now and all of the kind of coming off the back of James Gunn's twenty twenty five Superman.

It's and also on the heels of the Supergirl movie about to come out, I feel like this is a really perfect placed event where I'm feeling the Superman love. I'm feeling the super family all over. So I really enjoyed DCKO from top to bottom. And as it progressed, I was just I think, you know, talking to you both week to week or month to month, I was like, man, I'm just loving this, and I was not expecting to love it as much as I did. And I really felt like they stuck the landing on the finale as well.

Generally, I agree with you, like, pretty much across the board, especially about the tie in part because I also used to read all the tie ins and financially, time in your life, whatever. You just stopped doing that after a while. You just I just couldn't keep up with all of it.

But for whatever reason, this one, which I thought was going to lack substance completely, drew me in within the first couple of pages. And I read everything, like straight across the board.

And I'd say it was like a ninety eight percent success rate. Maybe there were one or two that I went, well, I probably could have lived without that, but I still had fun. And I think that's what I enjoyed about it the most for how for, like, for its subtext, like, or its character progression, its character arcs. But also, I I just did have a lot of fun reading it, and the stakes felt quite real, which I I honestly can't say I felt in a comic book since Blackest Night, maybe?

Like, maybe Final Crisis, maybe Flashpoint. I don't actually don't think Flashpoint actually because we knew it was rebooting. Right. So, like, none of the stakes nothing felt like it mattered.

But this one felt like it mattered, like, a great deal.

And that that means a lot to me as a life like, a pretty much a lifelong reader that that I can read a book, like, an event book, which generally speaking are a big big blockbuster flashy substance things like there's not a lot of depth to them. And this one made like like really nice statements about Superman, about the value of life over anti life and so on and so on and so forth. And what I really loved about it is that you knew it's a middle chapter for for this. This is an empire strikes back.

You know? And, and that's the closest comparison I can make. Like, it I felt complete in a whole, but it was just the middle of the story. But I still felt like I got so much out of it.

I I have to agree. I mean, I I feel like it did have it did matter. There was more substance to it than I, yeah, than I was expecting as well. I I really was expecting, especially honestly, especially because, like, a lot of the marketing, it sort of gave the vibe of, like, being kind of a Mortal Kombat parody is, you know, I don't I don't mean it as as though it was just a making fun of something. But, you know, it look like an homage, if nothing else, to to that that style and that genre. And I wasn't sure that was gonna be for me, but I was, you know, in to to read it along with all the rest of the Superman stuff.

And, yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. I was pleasantly surprised by what a, like, an analysis of of Superman as a character in particular this turned out to be, which I know we'll we'll talk about more.

I was really especially in the first issue or two and some of those early tie ins.

I was really struck by what a great, like, breakdown of the DC heroes it was, you know, in in in sort of those early pairings in the the beginning of the the the bracket.

It was really, really very in-depth, like, analysis of who some of these characters are and what their strengths and and and what their strengths are and how they complement each other.

I I that's the some of the stuff I found most, like, intellectually sort of stimulating about it. That and and as I said, as we get into some of the Clark Clark, Diana, and and Bruce stuff really is a is a is a is a big, big piece of it.

What do we what do we think about on the whole? I I know we have I think we're all we all have pretty much the same feelings around Scott Snyder and Joshua Williamson as as creators on in general, but on Superman.

But, Vactor, what's your what's your feeling on how they how they landed this one?

Man, I really would like to see some type of breakdown behind the scenes how much like, who handled what? Whenever you have, like, a co because I I think about in a movie when you have, like, a co director situation, like, who is doing what and how much is the story attributed to each one? Like, okay. I did fifty percent or I did eighty percent. You know, what is it?

Without knowing that specifically, I will say the tandem of Scott Snyder and Joshua Williamson came together to produce something that was maybe greater than the sum of its parts. Because Joshua Williamson, before this and I like him as a writer, and he's currently the the stuff he's doing on the Superman book is fantastic.

But his I don't even remember the name of the the Night Fight or the not Night Fight, which was that was a great tie in the Night Fight book. The Night Terrors or the Night The Sandman put you to sleep, whatever that was that Josh waves did. I was very bored by that crossover that left a bad taste in my mouth. I would not recommend going back to try to read that and catch up.

Scott Snyder, for me, for the most part, everything that he's done, I have been a pretty big fan of. And his metal and death metal events, I didn't have the same feeling that I do on this one. I saw in an interview, he specifically said metal was supposed to be a Batman story. Death metal was supposed to be a Wonder Woman story.

Now this is the Superman story. So having the trinity there, you know, how much does that mean for DC?

I really like what Frank was talking about, the the board game that they were playing, which kind of sets the whole thing in motion between Clark, Diana, and Bruce. And Lois even comes in a little bit there. But the subtle layers of what's going on in that board game, the texture of that is so fun, and it's like a a really a microcosm for this whole series of this is something that you're seeing going on in front of you, them playing a game, but then there's other layers and levels to that.

And it was so fun to read each issue and and kinda figure out, hey. What's what are they trying to say about Superman about giving him this like, in order to win the game, you have to play dirty. Like, you have to be like Darkseid. Superman, as we all know, is the most moral person of all time.

How is we know he's gonna win. We know Superman is gonna come out on top. How is he going to win and still be Superman and not change his morals to be like Darkseid? And he finds a way.

Superman finds a way, which I love. And whatever the breakdown is between Williamson and and Snyder, like I said, I feel like they came together to to lock hands and give us something that was, I felt like, a good statement about who Clark is, who Superman is, and why he's gonna win over Darkseid. And just felt like the entire DC universe was involved. And and like Tangent said, this is the stakes are palpable.

You you feel like something is is going to happen if our heroes don't win. There's gonna be consequences to this. So I I felt like like I said, however the breakdown was, they were successful in the tandem pairing. So interesting because we don't see it a co writer situation very often on these events.

So it's interesting.

Yeah. Tim Tim, what did you think?

Generally generally, I agree. I I think that Scott Snyder has the tendency to not stick the landing very well for his events.

Yeah.

I think like the his his first acts are incredible. Like, they're just they're so magnetic and you just feel you're drawn in and you there are horrible stakes in this anxiety and like, what's gonna happen? And that's such a cool concept. And then as the story goes on, he really starts to lose what made it good. And he just gets a little too bonkers and doesn't explain it well. And it just gets a little too out there. I did not find that happening with KO at all.

Like, I it was so succinct from start to finish. It was so well explained. The concepts were just heady enough for you to understand what's happening with and be like, comics, Awesome. Yeah.

You fight across the entire universe in one punch. Like, whatever. You do it. But I never felt like that was like, I don't know what's happening.

And what a weird decision. Like, it all felt so organic to me as a story, and I feel like that's really where Joshua Williamson comes in. Like and I I I feel like maybe together, like, with their powers combined of the big headiness and maybe, hey, man. Let's bring it down over here, like, sandman sleepy time or whatever it was.

You know? Like, that's like, now you've got the now you've got the perfect you've got the perfect blend for for from both of them. Because I think Joshua Williamson is incredibly talented writer, and Scott Snyder is also an incredibly talented writer. But they really stuck the landing this time, and I have I did not find that with DC Metal.

I didn't find it with DC Metal two.

This is a this is a spoiler from here on out, but I I said to one of you, I can't remember that. I I find it incredibly funny that oh, it was definitely a factor that that at the end of DC metal two, which was written by Snyder, Wonder Woman disappears, like, into the ethos, into the, you know, whatever. And here's the Superman eventing. What does he do? He disappears into the ethos. Right? I'm like, that's just the thing.

Like, that's just Oh, yeah.

That's what happens. I feel like that's Batman does not do that in death metal, but he already just did that after final crisis.

Right.

So, like, not not terribly long ago in comics crisis of, you know, in in big events time. So so they they can't do that again. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. When you put it that way. Yeah. They just but it didn't feel like a repeat of a story.

No. That's what I think it like. DCKO is its own thing. And what I actually really liked as far as like marketing is concerned is that they Batman is taken out so early because like you think, oh, well, know, Batman's their guy.

He's the guy. He's DC's guy. No, he's not baby. It's Superman's the guy. He's the one that we're all cheering for.

And of course there's there was Night Fight, you know, the AE Batman had his own four issue mini, which was excellent, was really, really, again, nice statements about who Batman is, but who Batman has evolved to be as a character, not where he was in people's brains twenty five, thirty years ago and not maybe maybe like twenty five, twenty, twenty five years ago in comics. Like, I'm a loner and I don't like even though I have a family, I don't really pay attention to them and blah, blah, blah. He's so far past that point as a character now. And that's really what Night Fight is all about.

Him like pretty much coming back around to the Batman he was in the seventies in the Neal Adams era, like of the Daniel O'Neill Neal Adams era where he's like, I enjoy being Batman because I'm good at it.

And in some ways, like stopping crime is fun, like and he's allowing himself to breathe a little, to have fun in the madness that he's that he takes a part in.

And two things about Night Fight. Number one is Dan Mora on art who is my current favorite artist in all of comic books. Looked fantastic from start to finish. And number two, I really want some spin offs of each one of those.

Like so each book, each issue was going from through a different Robin, basically, Bruce's relationship with with his Robins. And I wanna see Damian from that universe that they set up. I wanna see him in another book. Like, wanna see them.

It's funny you say that because I'd like to skip to the end of DCKO five where, you know, like because what is a good event if you're not teasing what the like, what is coming next? Right?

Like, that's the it's almost like you you read, like, how it all wraps up and you're like, okay. But what, like, what cool splash page art you gonna show me?

What what what are you gonna tease me with next? Right?

And there's some there's some teasing going on here that is there that is definitely part of night. That is definitely part of that night fight life.

Like, there's the absolute stuff.

There's a tease of absolute proportions at the end. Absolutely.

I just meant the real characters.

But yes, you are absolutely right.

But there's some multiverse shenanigans going on over here.

And I think one of them, if I'm not mistaken, did I dream that? Because I'm looking at the page.

No, he's correct. It's at the very bottom. It says elsewhere.

Very bottom. Elsewhere. I'm looking at, like, the two page splash with so there's, like, Barry being like, woah. Who's there?

Book zero. What's that? And then what's that? Right before that.

The page right before that.

Oh, got it. Okay. Okay. I knew I didn't make it up.

Yes. You did not imagine this.

Elsewhere Yes. Is the Damian Batman. So like you said, like, the four goes to the different Robins, but it's like they're they've all become Batman. Right?

They've all gone and done something. So you start with **** Grayson, then you move to Jason Todd, then Tim Drake, and then Damien's issue four. But here's Damien as Batman issue four and not the Grant Morrison end of the world Batman six six six. Like it's a different Damien because he has also evolved as a character beyond the little snot that we met back in two thousand and six.

Right? Two thousand and five, two thousand and six.

That I agree. That was very exciting to me. Just like it feels fresh. Like, I know you're going back to the same. Well, you're going back to the same characters, but that's fine. But it's almost the manga style. Like it's blending American comics with manga where they're like, okay, we told three hundred issues or whatever books or whatever of this story.

We're doing it again. Right? In characters, but we're starting fresh, you know, like total total reboot and you just roll with it. And it feels like that.

Elseworlds can do that if it just continues on if it just continues on. That's what absolute that's why I think so many people are drawn to the absolute comics. Right? Because they're it's something fresh.

Like, it's something I know, but it it is something it is something quite different. And I would love to see that happen again.

Yeah. And that's not a guarantee. Like, just doing something over again and putting a little twist on it, a fresh spin on it, doesn't automatically mean, oh, this is gonna be great. This is gonna be amazing. What they're doing with the absolute universe, what all of those writers are coming together to do, and Scott Snyder on Absolute Batman, has been, to me, a greatly satisfying experience of almost like the butterfly effect.

What you know, if you've if it flaps its wings and then on the other side of the world, this great change is happening.

What are these characters to their core? What who is Wonder Woman? Who is Batman? Who is Superman?

And we've all talked about Absolute Superman on, our This Month in Superman episodes that we were doing. And what they're able to kind of show Clark as instead and because he grew up on Krypton, you know, that one change, how does that affect everything else? He's still Superman. He still comes out to be Superman even though growing up with the Kents is such a vital part to his story.

He's still inside. We know him. Clark is still Clark. He's got a little bit of rough edges. There's a little bit of changes. But this absolute Superman, especially in the latest issues, to me, has been really coming into his own of who is Superman, who is Clark. And the setup of this, like, seeing there's gonna be what looks like an absolute crisis.

That to me, I I can't wait to see. I really liked how the absolute characters played into this DCKO, but I wanna see them not being dark sides puppets. I wanna see them as they are.

And I feel like this absolute whatever the the absolute crisis thing is going to be like that feels like it's going to be those characters that we are growing to love now in these individual books going back, pushing back against dark side.

Yeah, I I agree. I agree. And I'm I'm very I mean, the bringing bringing that universe together right with with this was already was already exciting enough seeing them be introduced here and now having them be at the center of a of a new crisis.

Excited for it now. Every you know, all of these events feel like a crisis in a in a sense. Right? I mean, we have, like, a a universal rebirth happening again here. We have, you know, this time Superman's hands in the cosmic stew. You know, there's always somebody's it's always somebody doing the the anti monitor thing.

And but but let me ask you this. Like, on the one hand, we had that. But aside from from things moments like that with the the multiverse reverse sort of sort of homage moment there, Did this need to be was this an event or could this be a story of its own? Like how much of this was a a continuity shaping event on the on the magnitude of a, you know, crisis and how or or to what extent was this a story could be on its own? Tim, you're raising his hand your hand.

Yeah. I'm gonna say that it's a story on its own. I actually don't think that it is a continuity changing event. So, like, yes, like, think there are there are consequences to the actions that of the characters that take place, but not in a way that you're like, and and, well, things are different now. You know?

John Byrne is gonna redo Super Bowl. So and so was gonna do this.

And, you know, like, this was just a big event that occurred. And it didn't because the truly, the only really big continuity resetting events are crisis, like Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint. Like, those are really the the two big ones.

Other ones shift gradually over time. Like Infinite Crisis doesn't really change continuity. It changes tone like, but it didn't like they'd noticed that everything was getting very dark and they like purposely started to move it out in that direction. But it wasn't really a continuity shift.

I would not I would not focus that here, even though you're looking at Superman as, like, remaking the universe and King Omega and that really nice splash page when he's like this with his hands up. And he's got a very Kirby esque, like, energy crown on his head. So cool. But all of that is just another chapter in Superman's life that will continue on in the current iteration that we know in our sharing, and that's my fave. Yeah. I just watched a really good part of the or read a very good part of the ongoing story as opposed to closing the book on something.

Sure. That makes sense. Yeah. I think I agree with that, point of view. Yeah. I don't it doesn't feel like it's a total continuity shaping, changing event, but it's still a big a big event nonetheless.

Huge.

Yeah. Huge. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I feel like there was something said, and we talked about stakes and things mattering. I feel like at the end of the day, now that I've read all five issues of KO and every tie in, I feel like there was a statement to be made. It wasn't just about punching.

It wasn't just about the fighting. The KO side of it was great. You know, the the the KO standing for King Omega, but also knocking out. And getting those fights.

It just it taps into even a lot of, like, manga and and anime, like the tournament style. There's a lot of Dragon Ball Z type of stuff in there.

It's just fun. And we thought it was gonna be this turn your brain off and just shovel the popcorn in. It was that, but also I felt like there was this greater storyline with Superman underneath it because I I still see people online.

I've noticed about talking about KO saying, oh, yeah. It was just a big dumb action movie. There wasn't any substance to it. And I really feel like they need to reread it and see it again.

Although Or if they read it at all.

Right? Yeah. Really. Guess I I think there is a lot of people like that who are just looking at the headlines and just seeing the matchups. But we're also we also have the strength of us reading the main Superman book and and seeing all of those things that are happening.

I wonder if someone who's just reading k o didn't have that context, and they were saying, oh, yeah. It was kind of a big dumb thing. But, man, we like, a lot of the time trapper stuff that we've been getting over the course of Joshua Williamson's run on Superman and all of the little like, Superboy prime, all of those type of things, I feel like we we're looking at the grand picture of it. We're looking at all these things.

Maybe they're just focusing in on this one little piece of the storyline. So that could be playing into it, but I think also Tangen has a point of there's a lot of people that unfortunately, today, they just look at the headlines. They just look at a clip, and they don't look at the the full episode. They don't watch the full thing, and they make their judgments based on those those tiny clip its and snippets.

Yeah. It's just the modern judge a book by its cover. Right?

It is. It's Yep.

Judge a judge a story by its headline. Like, that's as much as it is, which is a real shame because I haven't been this excited about comics since I started reading comics. Right?

And it's not all publishing companies like like Marvel is just Marvel Comics is not at the publishing level that DC is right now and hasn't been for some time. I'm genuinely excited for new stories, new events, new creators, like the whole thing. And and not just be like, well, I'll read my I'll read my favorites. I'll read Batman.

I'll read Superman, you know, Wonder Woman, whatever. I wanna read them all. Like, there's that page in DC k o five where there's like there's Lobo and Batwoman, Deathstroke, and Firestorm, and Etrigan, Zatanna, and Jonah Hexen. I'm like, yeah, man.

I wanna read all of those books, and Firestorm is my least favorite character of all time.

I just don't Yeah.

But it's making me want to care and not just because I really enjoyed Keigo. I think, like, the whole publishing initiative is really working for me. Nice.

And and I don't think enough can be said about Harvey Fernandez's art.

Oh, yeah.

You're like, haven't really talked about it, but man, so kinetic. Yes. Really lush and colorful. Yes.

So even though it like like like Vector said, it just felt like you're playing with your toys, but toy, but you're playing with your toys as an adult because now you understand subtext, subtext and character progression and symbolism and all this stuff that you don't get when you're a kid. So it's just yeah, banger of an event. I haven't had this much fun reading an event probably since infinite crisis, if I'm being honest. Maybe Blackest Night, actually, you know, if that counts as an event.

But that was just like a story within No.

Blackest Night was Blackest Night was an event.

It was across all Oh, amazing.

DC books. Yeah.

Yeah.

It was a Yeah.

Okay. So I'm gonna say Yeah. Blackest Night was probably the last time I was this jazzed about.

I'm gonna say that's a that's a that's high praise. That's a big statement.

And not to say I haven't enjoyed the other ones, though.

I understand.

Just like the Yeah. Yeah, man. Let's do it. What's coming next?

That was definitely a big one. Rebirth was probably the most recent one for me that was like that, though.

That's true.

I I was pretty I was pretty excited about Rebirth, and still sort of stand by it. Like, it was that was a that was a fun time. That was a fun time to be reading for sure. And, you know, that was ten years ago. Right?

What's the event that was rebirth, though?

You know, like, what was there a big event that led into rebirth, or did it just kinda start? Because I don't remember there being, like I was thinking more like a like a big universe altering thing, not necessarily continuity, but, you know, like, what was the thing that, like, shook the universe?

Then There was the in the Superman books, there was the, like, nineties era Superman the the yeah. The the nineties era Superman coming back after New fifty two. Yeah.

And becoming the main Superman. I remember that again. Right. So that that was a changeover that happened.

Gosh, I I, you know, I have a terrible memory for for I know.

That's why I'm, you know, that's why I'm just thinking like that. Yeah.

I was thinking more in terms of Something that stands out to you.

What stands out. Yeah. No. It's a valid point.

Story that led to a change as opposed to I would that was actually a really soft launch for Superman to change. Like it's own little series.

Yeah.

And then it like slowly built and did its and did its thing silently in the corner.

But I don't I don't remember rebirth, like, having, like, a thing. Doomsday clock? Was it Doomsday clock?

Doomsday clock was that was later, though. I think. Right?

Yeah. I did like the Doomsday Clock reference in Yeah. DCKR. Oh, yeah. I like that.

Good one.

In some ways, just felt like that was like an event that like happened. Then we're like, just kidding. Right. Happened worse. I know. Right? Yeah.

Feels that way.

Yeah. But no, it's all because that was like I think that was the the point of of that book at the end. Doomsday Clock was that it all happens from nineteen thirty eight all the way to twenty twenty six. It all happened. Sometimes you remember it a little bit differently. Sometimes it happened like this, whatever. But, yeah, it happened.

I feel like we're jaded because DC has gone back and forth so many times of, oh, wait. No. There's there's multiple Earths. Oh, no.

There's one Earth. Oh, wait. There's multiple universes? Oh, there's one universe. Oh, there's fifty two?

Okay. There's one like, they've done this thing back and forth, and it didn't nothing matters after this? Okay. Everything mattered.

Like, it they keep on going back and forth. So it's like, I just want a good story.

Whatever the window dressings are of

The back stuff, like, just give me a good story.

And That's what we got.

I think Yeah.

I think DCKO was a fantastic story from start to finish.

I'm curious, Frank. Any of the things that Gannon mentioned at the end, that kind of the ripple effect, they have that Superman is in the center, and then they have, like, the the title the ripples are coming out. Any of those new things are you interested in? Oh. Like, the Zatanna, like the Batwoman, the the Lobo. Are you interested in anything that's coming out of this?

Yeah. I mean I mean, kinda all of it. But but, like, yeah.

Actually, okay. The Lobo thing, is interesting to me because I've always really dug Lobo as a as a character. And and I in particular, I think because of Superman, the animated series, associate him with Superman in that way. So I'm, like, stoked for for that.

I'm excited that he that he's in the Supergirl movie for the same reason. But I think that actually caught my eye. But, like, in a in a bigger picture sense, like, if I could take a step back, I I kind of I really I really appreciated that this story, was so Superman centric and that it had something to say about him as, like, there's a reason that only he could be the one to wear the crown. Like, there was there even Darkseid was like, had hoped it was gonna be you.

Right? Like, I I just feel like that that is so, that felt so true to to Superman as a character. And and to put Superman in a in a, compromising potentially compromising position, right, of of how are you gonna get out of this one? Like you said, Vactor, with with you're gonna play by Darkseid's rules.

How are you gonna get out of this one? To put him in that predicament and have it be the central thing of a major, you know, publishing wide event, basically, is how Superman gonna get out of this one. And then have him pull it off in, in what I thought was really, really masterful fashion. Like, I, I always get protective of my hackles go up when a situation like this happens.

I'm like, alright, what compromises are we gonna make? Like, or am I gonna be okay with And I was I I thought this was a a great like, they found the way to cut the Gordian knot. And I I was very, very yeah. I was I was pretty pleased with this as a as a Superman story.

And so I I appreciated having a major event where Superman is so much at the center of it and then, like, sort of gets the moral victory at the end of the day. That just felt good. It just felt good to see that. And I was I was happy to to read that.

Instead of Shang Song going flawless victory, it's more of a victory.

I know this is totally not the point, but time trapper, I just see smart Hulk.

I just see I just see Doomsday as smart Hulk.

Oh, interesting.

What I'm that's my, like, mental shorthand for what contractor is.

And I got to say, like, I have never really liked Doomsday from the beginning.

And now he is this time with this time trapper evolution, like, when you add in his whole story of from the time we saw him in the death of Superman till now, I really like Doomsday now as a character. They've added so much like, you know, he started off as, okay, he's just a killing machine. Like, he his soul creation is and kinda like Bane in in the same way. The sole reason that he is here is to do this one thing kill Superman. Now it's like these writers and that's always what the best comic book writers and and characters do.

Different people have come in, put their take on it, put their spin on it. And now what's currently happening with Joshua Williamson, I feel like is the not the not the culmination, but this is the best I've seen doomsday. And and, like, the most interesting, this time trapper variation of Doomsday Now is my favorite. So I'm really enjoying the era that we're in right now.

It feels like they finally landed on one that works. Right? Like, it's been tried many, many times. Right. And it feels like this is maybe the definitive one that that works kind of, yeah. I I I'm I'm trying struggling to think of another example that that but but it feels like this is the one that that landed it.

Right.

And that there's an there's a reason for Yeah.

His, like, coming back all the time and always because there's that the thing about Doomsday is kinda like the thing about Goku. Like he keeps getting stronger and stronger. It's like, man, is he gonna like, when is there ever gonna be a a peak to where he like, he keeps on shattering the ceilings. And Doomsday, I felt like, okay, he evolves from anything that kills him, He just gets stronger.

And in my mind, I'm like, okay, at some point, like, okay, now he's unbeatable. Like, there's nothing you can do to stop him. He's evolved to the point where he could survive anything. Well, now it's boring.

This time trapper thing, I'm like, oh, that's kind of like the logical conclusion of his arc and, like, where he's going in the future.

I like that. I like that there's some I feel like there's a reason for it. There's a reason for him going to that point. So I like that.

Love that. Have not talked about that I wanna do real fast because we're a little over time, but I wanna talk about it anyway, is that it's very as a as far as this is being a Superman story, I found it so perfectly fitting that Lex won the crown and then immediately lost it because of his heuristic.

Yeah. So perfect. Not even like two, three pages into the next issue. He was like, ****. Why? And that that was perfect to me.

That that made me look at Williamson and Snyder Snyder and say, you understood them all.

Like, not just.

Yes.

Man, not just Batman, not Wonder Woman, Lois, Hawkman, Harley, Joker, whoever's in it. You got them all, but especially the, like, all important Superman character of Superman, Lex, and Darkseid in Yeah. Olympic way. Yeah. Just it was it was perfect.

And that also comes off of, like like I said, the heels of the James Gunn, twenty twenty five, Superman and Lex Luthor. Like, way that Lex is portrayed, I feel like fits in line a hundred percent with this Lex at a one a one. Like Right. Wanting the power and then losing it.

Like like you said, and that's like the Lex The Lex wheel that we've been on.

The hamster wheel that we've been on for so long. But, yeah, that is a great point. It fits. And I was like I was like, where are they gonna go with this?

And then I was like, oh, yeah. Okay. This makes perfect sense of where it ended up. So one hundred percent Snyder and Williamson.

As much as Snyder has been associated with Batman

Over the years, I feel like this is going to be one of those ones that we can put a feather in his cap of, hey. He knows Superman as well. He knows Yeah. A lot of these DC characters very well.

I agree.

I think I think with that, it would be a perfect time to segue into where the people can find us.

Vactor, where can the people find you?

Well, I will be promoting Bureau on the Bureau website now. I have a comic book, YouTube and TikTok channel called This Comic Cooks where I'm really trying to focus on obscure characters. And, people seem to enjoy talking about some of the lesser known characters in comic books. And so I'm trying to kind of carve my niche out in that area.

So This Comic Cooks on TikTok and YouTube is where you could find me. And I am so grateful and thankful not only to be asked back to Beer With Geeks, but also to call Frank and Tim friends. This is one of the highlights of my time as always talking to both of you. So thank you very much.

Likewise, my friend. Thank you.

And seriously, your TikTok channel has is always, always, always so, so good. I I learned so much from from your TikTok about about obscure characters. It was here to me characters that that I don't that I don't know very well. I've I've learned so, so much. So, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Follow this Comic Cooks on on the YouTubes and the and the TikTok.

You can find Beer with Geeks over at Beer with Geeks dot com. You can find us on YouTube. You can find us in any podcast app that you like. You can rate and review us and follow us and subscribe in all those places, and you can support us at Patreon dot com slash Thought Bubble audio. And that is what helps us keep on keeping on here at the Beer With Geeks program going on now for teen year, thirteen years. Woah. Something like that.

Thirteen years.

Thirteen. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I I was a teenager when you guys started.

So Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's right. Yeah.

Over ten. It's definitely been over ten.

Definitely over ten. Definitely over ten.

Anyway, well, my friends, it was it was so good to see both of you. Thanks for stopping by to chat comics with me. Always a pleasure. So until next time. Cheers. Cheers.

Cool.