Tommy Smith: Welcome to Sweet Tea and Strategy, a podcast produced by Ackerman. We speak with business leaders and great communicators over a glass of sweet tea. My name is Tommy Smith, Vice President at Ackerman, and today I’m delighted to speak with Lisa Baird, the Chief Marketing Officer at New York Public Radio. Lisa, congratulations on closing in on year one at New York Public Radio and welcome to the podcast.
Lisa Baird: Well, thanks, it’s a pleasure to be here.
Tommy Smith: You’ve done amazing things in many world-class brands and your work speaks for itself. I’ve heard you say a number of times you want to work with partners and market leaders and always work with people you respect and like. So following that advice, we’ve asked you to join us, so it’s an honor to speak with you. Our podcast focuses on business leaders and great communicators, and you definitely excel at both of those. You’ve been named one of the 50 most innovative CMOs and recently one of the top 20 most important women in marketing. I’ve been anxious to speak with you for a long time, but first things first, we ask our guests to think about their favorite summertime cold beverage. We’re fans of sweet tea here, but what’s your go-to on a hot summer day?
Lisa Baird: Well, it’s not sweet tea, but it is an Arnold Palmer. And I think I like that both because of the taste of it and also the link to sports.
Tommy Smith: All right. Along those lines, I know you focus on overall branding and maximizing the full strength of the brands you represent. I also know you’re an insights-driven marketer and I’m curious a little bit about how insights have uncovered some truths or some insights from consumer research that led you to a unique brand direction, whether it’s the rebrand of US Ski and Snowboard, the Next Olympic Hopeful, or something else. So can you talk a little bit about as a marketer how maybe some unique insights that you’ve uncovered through consumer research that pointed to the direction of the brand?
Lisa Baird: I think one of the most rewarding and satisfying brand launches I’ve ever worked on was the kind of the molding and the launch of the Team USA brand. For many years, the Olympic team and then the Paralympic team were only known by those formal names. It was the only really kind of strict way that we had to really brand within the Olympic movement, and there were very, very strict rules associated with it. As you can imagine, only a very few athletes at the most elite part of their careers got named to the Olympic and Paralympic teams.
Lisa Baird: But as I saw the landscape, I saw the opportunity for a more accessible brand, a broader brand that not only encompassed the Olympic teams but also the national teams and allowed us to converse with and communicate with Americans as they watched not only athletes on the stage of the Olympic and Paralympic Games but also compete and make their way towards that. And that was the thinking and the insights that led to the Team USA brand.
Lisa Baird: But of course, the hard work is actually making it a brand—working through the copyright laws, making sure that we had the structure and discipline to use the brand in the right ways, explaining the brand architecture to many people, athletes and agents and national governing bodies, and where the Team USA brand could and should be used and where it couldn’t, because it was also a brand that was created for its commercial and media potential. And I think one of the latest manifestations of it was a partnership between the NBC, the International Olympic Committee to launch the Team USA Olympic channel, which is the home of Team USA. That is its co-brand, and I think it shows how everybody can be a part of that brand.
Tommy Smith: Now, what you just described is a good example of kind of coalescing different audiences around a single vision. That’s quite challenging, as I’m sure you know. More of a philosophical question: how do you communicate kind of innovative brand concepts that have sprung from consumer insights? Obviously, consumer problem-solving companies start with that in mind, but depending on those audiences, you have to stretch the mind of the sponsor or partner or department...
Lisa Baird: Yeah, stakeholders. Because I think that’s a very insightful question and that is part of the hard work. When you are outside of consumer packaged goods or consumer-oriented companies, the very fabric is oriented towards thinking about the customer first or the consumer first. That’s how they’re oriented because they know they’re so dependent on those habits and behaviors, particularly shopping and purchasing, to create their revenue.
Lisa Baird: It’s not as transparent when you get in the world of what I’ll call content or products like sports or even certainly non-profits where the mission is more important. And the mission sometimes can co-exist quite successfully with the customer. So it is part and parcel of creating customer-focused or consumer-focused brands and properties is convincing the stakeholders that this can be a good idea to advance the mission.
Lisa Baird: So it’s a little trickier, and it’s not something that you do without really spending a lot of time enrolling people in your vision, because it has to advance the mission. And I think the idea of the Next Olympic Hopeful was one of those properties that took a year and really asking the national governing bodies to come along with us to kind of see: this is a property that can help build excitement for Team USA, the excitement for the Olympic team, but also a property that can help them maybe recruit the next Olympic or Paralympic athlete. And that’s one where you take a little bit of time to enroll those stakeholders.
Tommy Smith: Am I right that they finished filming a few weeks ago of that?
Lisa Baird: Yes. Yeah, the third season. So that’s pretty satisfying it’s working so well—it seems to be working. And I know one of the athletes has made it onto the World Cup stage, a lacrosse player turned bobsledder, but I haven’t kept up now that I’m in the world of New York Public Radio.
Tommy Smith: Well, let’s talk about that. Part of Next Olympic Hopeful was engaging the American audience in between Olympics. And as you think about loyalty and engagement with audiences in between main events, I’m sure that takes a different kind of lens for the digital and audio realm you’re in now. So how do you think about consumer engagement at New York Public Radio now?
Lisa Baird: Well, you know again, we are a mission-based organization, which is why it appeals to me in large part. But we're a mission-based organization dealing with the same dynamic and ever-changing media consumption landscape that all the for-profit entities are. I think what we’re engaged on is making sure that New York Public Radio, which is part of the broader ecosystem of national public radio but separate, is really intent on two things.
Lisa Baird: One is obviously through our local journalism resources and the fact that we’re in one of the most exciting cities in the world and certainly the biggest media city in the United States. We want to make sure that we are using all the resources we have locally to tell the stories of New York, make sure that we are covering the events in New York like midterm elections, the day-to-day workings of City Hall, the travails of living in a large commuting city, because we answer to the citizens of New York.
Lisa Baird: And I think that’s what makes public radio so special nowadays is that we are independent. We do answer to the listener and reader in the case of Gothamist because we’re independent, we’re listener-supported. But increasingly I think it’s important for public radio and public media to be a part of the media landscape because we’re open to all. Our content is not behind a paywall. We need to make our content open for everyone. And we do that through the generosity of our listeners and donors as well as underwriters and sponsors.
Lisa Baird: So the idea that we are covering New York, local events, we are really ensuring that we represent the broad citizenship that is New York—broad and diverse—and that we’re doing it on behalf of everybody is really the important mission. And doing it in a changing landscape is quite challenging.
Tommy Smith: Do you find listeners of public radio—I have this perception in my mind, so you tell me if it’s right or not—that they’re more willing, that feedback from them is more common or more prevalent than maybe other channels in media? Do you get the insights you need pretty loud and clear, or do you have to do some unique things to uncover those?
Lisa Baird: You know, we do because we have direct relationships with our members and we engage them in dialogue. They are stakeholders of the station as well as our podcasts. If you listen to any one of our podcasts—Radio Lab, Death, Sex & Money, The New Yorker Radio Hour—the hosts and the producers, the correspondents are always engaged in asking their listeners to tell them what they think. We’re actively soliciting their input.
Lisa Baird: But we know that we answer to them and so I think making sure that we have that input is really important. One of my favorite programs is The Brian Lehrer Show, the call-in show that he does with the mayor every Friday. I mean that’s asking New Yorkers to opine to the mayor of their city. And call-in shows are a way to have civil discourse even on topics and debates where we might have differing points of view.
Tommy Smith: That’s a public service in itself.
Lisa Baird: It is.
Tommy Smith: Talk about how you think about New York Public Radio and individual brands and how you market those versus the whole New York Public Radio itself.
Lisa Baird: Yeah, you know it’s a really great question. We have our lead brands in our architecture are the brands that touch consumers or listeners directly. So the station brand for our news and local coverage is WNYC. It’s almost a hundred years old, so that brand plays a very important role in our local coverage in New York.
Lisa Baird: But we also about a year and a half ago, maybe two years, acquired a digital-first brand called Gothamist that reaches a younger audience. And it is a website, but we also have those correspondents now appearing and integrated in the local newsroom. So we use our brands to reach different demographics, to cover topics with different tones.
Lisa Baird: And then in WNYC Studios, which is our production brand, that’s where we are creating the podcasts that really inspire a thoughtful conversation on a variety of different topics. So we have podcasts to cover individual interests and specific interests, but we also have the broader station that reaches the broader New York public.
Lisa Baird: And then in addition to that, many people don’t realize WQXR is our classical music station and that’s a station that is part and parcel of New York Public Radio and covers classical music and reaches not only a local audience but a national audience through our live stream. So it’s organizing the brands towards interests.
Tommy Smith: Got it. Along those lines, I’ve heard you say that the world is getting smaller in terms of being able to reach consumers directly through new digital channels. Is there anything you’d add to that in terms of leveraging this dynamic to directly engage consumers in public radio?
Lisa Baird: Yeah, I think that’s what most media companies are engaged in is figuring out how to use technology, personalization technology, to serve up content and have dialogues individually with people. That’s where you’ve seen the birth and the growth of subscription in the digital world because you’re better able to match interests with community and your content.
Lisa Baird: We’re on that journey as well, but we’re lucky that we already have a very strong and thriving base of members that support us so we don’t have to put content behind a paywall. That’s really important to our mission.
Tommy Smith: And that’s a big differentiator as well, starting at that point.
Lisa Baird: Huge. Local news should be available to everyone.
Tommy Smith: Well, let’s talk about sports. The fall is around the corner and so a few years ago you’d have been thinking football all the time. Maybe still a little just by habit.
Lisa Baird: Just for my team.
Tommy Smith: But who’s doing some innovative things in sports as it relates to the in-person consumer experience? We’ve talked a lot about what happens in between events, but in-event experience, who’s doing something unique there in sports?
Lisa Baird: Well, I think the thing that I see on the landscape is the continued growth of globalization of sports. You know, I’m a real fan of what English Premier League and NBC have done to advance fandom of soccer in the United States and how they’re...
Tommy Smith: As a soccer fan, me too.
Lisa Baird: Yeah, I think when you look at the soccer landscape it's complicated, as it is by different leagues, different championships—there’s no route to a world championship with the exception of a World Cup. But I think what the soccer community has done in the US is probably the most admirable. And you look at longtime commissioner Don Garber of MLS but also media broadcasters like NBC. They’re really bringing the best of production, the best of marketing thinking towards growing the soccer fan.
Lisa Baird: And I feel like with World Cup coming up in '26, that that’ll be the moment where the US really emerges as a country that embraces soccer. I’ll make that prediction. But I’m far enough away where it might be forgotten.
Tommy Smith: You heard it here first.
Lisa Baird: Yeah, and I think I have to mention the thing that as a woman in sports for a long time, I think I’m most pleased about is the fact that the women’s team have really been the ones to capture the hearts. That’s not to mean that I don’t think the men’s team needs to develop a strong pipeline and be right there at World Cup, but it’s the women’s team that’s won the hearts and minds of the American public right now.
Tommy Smith: That World Cup was phenomenal to watch. You could feel the hearts and minds kind of coalescing around that team for sure. I think was it they set a record with Nike in terms of apparel for the single season?
Lisa Baird: They did, the jersey, the single-student jersey. But I think it’s just you know that moment when a championship team, a legendary team comes in and you know this is one of those moments for soccer with the women’s team.
Tommy Smith: You mentioned the globalization of soccer and here it is interesting to see NBC Sports kind of activate that in different markets regionally where they’re hosting events on EPL Saturday mornings, watch parties for the women’s team. It’s amazing to kind of see that activation take hold.
Lisa Baird: Yeah, and that’s a very, very talented team at NBC. They really understand sports and I think as a broadcaster, I know them because I worked with them for 10 years. I really think they’re doing a great job, and Mark Lazarus who runs the whole thing is really a believer in marketing and you can see it shine through all their properties.
Tommy Smith: Is there another sport that you feel maybe not poking through that maybe but you feel is behind soccer in terms of the globalization, maybe from the US to another country or vice-versa?
Lisa Baird: I’m going to go to the other end of the spectrum and not that I have a fully formed point of view on it, but I’m fascinated by e-sports. And the reason I’m fascinated by it is that if you kind of watch how this generation of sports fans consumes media, I think that holds a lot of lessons for traditional sports. Not so much maybe the competition but how the new generation of sports fans consumes media.
Lisa Baird: And like when you look at Twitch, these influencers on what was largely an e-sports channel are now applying those same techniques to coverage of other, let me say it more important topics like the recent debates. There were cohorts in streaming shares that were applying those same media consumption techniques to politics and I think they’ll apply it to broader entertainment areas. So I think there’s probably a lot of sports studying Twitch, but watching what the e-sports influencers do, what the publishers are doing, has going to have a lot of lessons for all of us I think.
Tommy Smith: It’s hard to tell where that’s going to go, but there’s something there for sure.
Lisa Baird: Oh yeah. It’s an incredibly engaging experience to kind of watch a competition but watch it with a streaming share with an influencer. That’s a very, very different experience than listening to your TV or even listening to the radio or following it on Twitter. When you’re on Twitch, it’s that perfect storm of fan interaction, influencer, and also competition.
Tommy Smith: Yeah, I love that and I like the idea to think that other sports can figure out a way to use that to grow fandom within different markets or take a global...
Lisa Baird: Yeah, and the technology of measurement is so far beyond any other platform that I think for that reason alone there will be a drive from sponsors to help figure it out because you can get second-by-second analytics, you can understand positivity, negativity, the richness of data for a marketer is pretty appealing I think.
Tommy Smith: All right, so last question, Lisa. I’ve heard you talk about talking to sponsors and asking them to kind of make the platform work for them and you’ve used the example in the past of how BMW helped go beyond the focus on speed to redesigning a two-man bobsled. So along those lines, as you think about technology of measurement that you just mentioned with e-sports, how do you typically come to sponsors? Do you have a pre-packaged set of ideas that you kind of bring up as thought starters? You’re working with some of the brightest minds who can easily kind of get a concept and take it and run, but there is that fun point that is kind of the creative stretch that I call it in the sense that you’re bringing an opportunity, your mind can race around all kinds of ways, but you have to make kind of the stretch to them to where they fully understand it and can kind of run with it. Do you offer an idea typically when you come to them of what it could be?
Lisa Baird: Well, I think audio, audio—and I will do this on behalf of all the people in audio today—I think we at public radio have standards with radio that we set with the FCC but also in podcasting, and those standards are about underwriting and sponsorship and we keep a pretty clear line between news journalism and the content.
Lisa Baird: But I think the most interesting next platform for marketers to really discover is audio, because audio gives you such a wide open field to develop your branding in. And it’s just rapidly growing in terms of its adoption. So now more than 50% of Americans listen to podcasts. So I work with marketers all the time to teach them about audio and how you can harness the power of audio to tell your brand story, whether it’s through sonic branding, whether it’s through custom content, whether it’s through underwriting and sponsorship with host reads.
Lisa Baird: So I’m a big believer in audio, and then what is rapidly coming to the fore is the world of voice. And that’s where I think marketers are poised right now because voice and that voice interaction with—through smart speakers, whether it’s in an automobile where I think we’ll all be affected, whether it’s in the home through smart speakers or through your computer, etc., your watch—that is voice is an audio technique and really understanding the power of storytelling through audio is kind of like the most interesting place that I spend with marketers now.
Tommy Smith: Well, we sure appreciate you telling stories with us today. I appreciate the insights and I just think the world of your brain and your perspective on branding, so I really appreciate you spending the time with us today.
Lisa Baird: All right, well thank you very much. And say hello to Tennessee, where I just have to say we’re going to be launching a special series podcast with Jad Abumrad who’s the host of Radio Lab in the fall about Dolly Parton’s America, and a lot of it is set in Tennessee and it really tells the story of what a unique icon she is in America today. So I hope there’ll be a lot of fans down there in Tennessee for this upcoming series and we’ll let you know the date it launches.
Tommy Smith: Oh, I am intrigued big time. We’ll be on the lookout for that. Thanks for—we’ll tell Tennessee you said hello.
Lisa Baird: Take care.
Tommy Smith: All right, bye-bye. Well, that’s it for this episode of Sweet Tea and Strategy where we talked about sports, brand awareness, and the future of audio. I want to thank Lisa Baird for joining us today. Thanks for listening.