Corey Coates (00:01.727) You're not you're not supposed to on a podcast. This is rule number one. Don't drink anything with ice in it. Is it makes all that sloshy, icy now noise when you're when you're drinking? Summer of Woody (00:15.618) My ice is melted, so I'm okay. Corey Coates (00:17.629) Mm-hmm. Do you have a do you have like a morning routine? Summer of Woody (00:22.388) Mm-hmm. I do. Corey Coates (00:24.171) Do you wanna describe it? Like I'm curious. Summer of Woody (00:27.008) Well, it depends if I'm exercising or not. I'm an exercise in the morning or never person. So before I start my day. So loosely three days a week I will do some light exercise before beginning my daily routine. Call that Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Corey Coates (00:46.229) What is light exercise? Like, because I see a senior with a headband, you know, with like five pound weights. Is that what you mean? Summer of Woody (00:52.238) Well no. It's not that light though, but it depends. I hurt my back recently. Tweaked it. Not hurt, but you know, tweaked that little so it's been a light exercise recently just to not push it. But I I I I do a 30 minute I don't know if you're familiar with the P90X routine or theme or brand. Corey Coates (01:06.218) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (01:21.9) No. I hadn't either, and during COVID Maya told me about it. Corey Coates (01:22.119) I have never heard of that. What's what is the P, what is the ninety, and what is the X? Do you know? Summer of Woody (01:30.247) X is extreme. So the opposite of light. my I'm I don't know is the answer. I think it's from the original routine was called Power 90. I believe that's the name of it. I'm not 100% sure. But I found these. Maya showed me these during COVID. and it was a great routine, but it was super long. Each routine was like an hour and a half. Corey Coates (01:32.05) Of course. Right. Summer of Woody (01:59.341) And when the mm hmm, ninety minutes. There you go. And when the world was stopped, you know, I got ninety minutes, no problem. But now 'cause it's not ninety, it's you warm up, you do it, you cool down, you shower, you eat, and it becomes a lot longer than ninety minutes. Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (01:59.417) That's ninety minutes. That's the that's the ninety. Corey Coates (02:20.777) There's the clothes, you got all the changing in there. Yeah, it's Summer of Woody (02:25.814) And so then I guess they feedback. They g they got that and there's a thirty minute version. So I do the thirty minute version. It's it's pretty intense 'cause they they put it all into thirty minutes, but then you're done. And you get sweaty and there's cardio and there's weights and there's different routines, you know, leg day and there's some yoga and some Pilates and there's a whole bunch of different stuff. Corey Coates (02:46.664) That sounds pretty holistic. Summer of Woody (02:48.448) It's all right. It's good. I have noticed it a little bit lately. Like my body's if you if you take a couple of weeks off and you come back into it, it's a it takes a bit of a ramp up because your body's like, whoa, and then as you get older, you know, back tweaks. But that's that's mental health more than physical health for me. Do I like doing that? If I don't do that, I'll so try to go for a walk if I don't I but I usually go for a walk in the middle. And that's kind of my morning routine. I don't eat in the morning generally. Coffee guy. Get going with whatever I'm doing, whether I'm teaching or if we're working together, just go with coffee and kinda have my first meal around. Eleven thirty, maybe noon, depending. What about you? I feel like you're leading you you have a good one that you want to share. Corey Coates (03:31.418) I'm I d I don't. I don't. I was just thinking as I was using the restroom that it's becoming more like I'm kind of a quantify metrics guy. Like I'm I'm one of those people that is motivated and influenced by numbers. So like I I got an Apple, you know, I've got my Apple watch. And it told me one day, it's like, you are showing the signs of hypertension. I'm like, ooh. So, you know, as my doctor advised, like I got a blood pressure monitor. I do it twice in the morning and twice in the evening. I'm fine. I don't I have non-elevated blood pressure, it turns out. But it's it's spiraled into this cascade of James Clear-esque morning habit stacking that this morning I caught myself realizing how absurd it might look like to an outside observer. Where it's like I wake up. Summer of Woody (04:03.245) Hope. Summer of Woody (04:09.749) Okay. Okay. Corey Coates (04:27.129) I go pee, I go back to bed, I take my blood pressure twice, I wake up, I go, I hang for exactly one minute from a bar, I go to the bathroom, I weigh myself, I drink a salt, water, and lemon, and then I go for a 30 minute walk. Right. Like it's just ding ding ding ding ding. Right. And I realize like if I don't do that, the likelihood of me getting exercise in a given day is is near zero. Summer of Woody (04:34.892) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (04:44.558) Yeah. Corey Coates (04:55.938) And then like twice a day in the middle of the day, I'll go to the gym and like do a lift or a workout or something. But I I I folded into all of this. One of those, I'm wearing a continuous glucose monitor. Whereas like I'm, you know, constantly seeing like where my blood sugar is at, you know, relative to how well they can monitor it based on that's not actually your blood sugar, etc. because I'm like, I don't know, maybe I'm pre-diabetic. I'm not just, you know. Summer of Woody (05:08.472) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (05:24.425) saying that it's like some some of my blood tests in the past they were all pre-diabetic. And now and I track my sleep and and kind of everything because I'm I don't I don't know if I I'm one of those again, I'm one of those people that's motivated by that. That helps me kind of, you know, stay on track, whatever that means. And the one thing that I I noticed in all of this is that sometimes Summer of Woody (05:25.656) We're all pre diabetic, yeah. Until you get it, you're pre. Corey Coates (05:53.877) I need a break from me. Like I you know what I mean? Like this morning I I had just turn off the alarms and it's like I just I can't. I d I don't wanna I don't wanna wake up and do all the things, right? I need a vacation from myself. Summer of Woody (06:10.995) I hear ya. I try a lot that to my routine. I try to wake up more or less at the same time every day. That's I d not always, but I tr I set the alarm, you know, more or less the same time. I d I left out, you mentioned water, so I drink a big thing of water in the morning. That's and then the exercise piles into that. So as I work out and it's not thirty minutes for me, 'cause the guy's on the video and the gals, you know, they do it in thirty minutes 'cause they're in their peak specimens, you know. For me it's a Corey Coates (06:38.582) And they're already in their clothes, they're changed. Yeah. Summer of Woody (06:39.755) It's about forty five minutes. 'Cause there's no a lot of the breaks in between, like, all right, let's go. I'd you know, pause the video and you know, let my heart come down to a little bit and I drink a lot of water in the morning. That that helps. Usually I do do you weigh yourself? Are you on that not health like? Yeah. I do I do too. I'm fascinated by how you just lose weight overnight and every morning you feel good about yourself 'cause all the water weight's gone. And then by lunch you're like you can't get back, you know. Corey Coates (06:55.135) I do. Every morning. Every morning. Corey Coates (07:08.275) don't weigh yourself past noon. That's just sadness in a number. You don't want to do that. Summer of Woody (07:09.579) Yeah. Summer of Woody (07:15.275) Not at all. I can't I've never been a sleep tracker. Not because I'm not interested, but because I find it really uncomfortable to wear the watch while I'm sleeping. They need like a like an ank an anklet. Corey Coates (07:25.696) Mm, mm-hmm. Corey Coates (07:31.553) You know, they have like these bed mattress covers too, right? These like eight sleep things that track your sleep and things if you care about such things. It's not the I need to know the number because I'm winning because I had a good night's sleep. It's more like I'm the this is where the glucose monitor comes in. Like I'm very curious about what things spike my Summer of Woody (07:41.101) I didn't know that. Corey Coates (07:58.526) my blood sugar and then how quickly I recover from that spike, you know? Like, what are the high glycemic index foods that they're all talking about? For some people, they have a banana and they're like a they're gonna turn into a popsicle. I have a banana, I'm fine. But you give me a bowl of oatmeal, you know, look out. Like I'm I'm ready to be shot up with some insulin. So just knowing that and then also seeing like the effect of alcohol on your sleep. Summer of Woody (08:11.073) Right. Corey Coates (08:27.487) Before you go to bed, how late you eat versus how you feel in the morning, like all that kind of stuff means that I I feel like I'm tweaking and optimizing as a 51 year old might need to. And this maybe I am leading towards something is when I go to the gym or I do all these things, I'm training to be a 70 year old. That's the that's the idea. I'm not training to be younger or to be 51. I'm training to be 70. I'm getting ready to be like sharp and fit and flexible at that age. Summer of Woody (09:01.069) I like it. I like it. I'm I'm me too. You know, I think there's no nothing wrong with just doing a little bit of exercise and getting your diet in order. Now you're reminding me of my routine. I'm a very regimented eater. Breakfast and lunch, basically the same thing every day. Dinner is a you never know what can happen kind of event. But if I'm if I'm leaving Corey Coates (09:13.682) Corey Coates (09:24.669) It's a crapshoot. Summer of Woody (09:30.151) home office in the morning. I'm an oatmeal for breakfast kind of guy. So I get this oatmeal, yogurt, banana, frozen fruit, granola. Concoction. And that's my need to eat something before I leave the house. Take off. If I'm working from home, generally, then yeah, I'll have my coffee, work the morning, and then I'll do eggs on a I'll toast a bagel. Corey Coates (09:43.037) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (10:00.064) put the eggs on top, slice up some tomatoes, alvocado, and the butcher down the road has these really nice curated meats like salamis and these kind of things and just put that all together. And that's that you that's that ties me over for most of the afternoon. That's that's a good one. Corey Coates (10:11.16) Ooh, oof. Corey Coates (10:24.24) You're not you're not a faster, I'm guessing, or an intermittent eater. Summer of Woody (10:26.721) Not on purpose. No. I'm just not hungry naturally in the morning. I don't do it on purpose. I'm just like yeah, I'm not I'm not hungry. But I get hungry around ten thirty, eleven and then depending on my day, if I'm home, then I'll make that. I also just like don't like all those decisions. What am I gonna go to the what am I gonna buy today for groceries? You know, like I like that, that's delicious, works for me, and I just you know, makes it easy to decide what I'm buying. Corey Coates (10:35.887) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (10:56.471) Same thing all the time. I also live in a neighborhood where I can walk five minutes and buy it all, so it's pretty easy. Corey Coates (10:56.924) Right. Right. Corey Coates (11:02.512) Yeah, I I went to see a naturopathic doctor like two years ago. And I don't know why the face I made follows that, but that's what you say I think after you see a naturopathic doctor. And he amongst the many other things that he'd suggested was that you know, like you need to increase your protein. Summer of Woody (11:14.135) Yeah. Corey Coates (11:24.751) This guy, man, he would have had me cramming animals into my mouth like 12 hours a day, just shoving down meat. And it's like I tried. I'm like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna give this guy a shot. I'm gonna eat those cooked vegetables and and meat, like a lot of meat. And I felt like shit all the time. Like I just felt heavy and crappy and everything. I'm like, dude, it's this is ridiculous. I'm I I don't understand. Summer of Woody (11:41.773) It's heavy. Summer of Woody (11:46.571) Corey Coates (11:55.621) How like now I'm realizing how individualistic all of these different health metrics truly are. Is that, you know, one doctor finally said to me something that made total sense. It's like, well, you're not a curve. And all the recommendations we're making are based on just kind of generalized population, which is a curve. And, you know, you're a person. You're not the curve. I'm like, it's like so you need to find individually what works for you. What is your protein intake that makes sense for you, that you're not that you're satiated and you're not losing muscle mass, etc. and all this stuff. And at the end of it, I kind of just wanna just say fuck it all and just not you you kind of know at a certain point in your life, with your metabolism and your experience, you kind of know when to wake up. You sort of know I shouldn't eat that. That's gonna make me feel like crap. And I go for a walk or I exercise and I feel better. I sit on the couch and I I binge Netflix for five days straight and I feel terrible. So like I I know that psychologically we can't trust ourselves to be our own guide. Like some people maybe need that kind of system or measurement or what have you. But I'm starting to get to a place where it's like, I think I kind of know what works for me. Can't I just do that and then not worry about it anymore? Summer of Woody (13:15.565) Some of my favorite posts online from like gurus or whatever are like the people who have the insane morning routines, you know, wake up at four thirty every morning and do the coal plunges and do all these things regimented. Like the same as the guy who wakes up at eight o'clock. You know? They're not getting ahead. They're not you know, you can you can still do whatever you want and be as successful as you want and you can wake up whenever, you know. It's we don't need to sensationalize the four thirty AM cold plunge. You know, just do what works works for you, you know. Corey Coates (13:50.924) Right. And there's a there's an the other component is the the overemphasis of the the tracking and sticking to all of these things can stress you out to a level that's yeah, you just feel shame and guilt and unhealthy and then you're focused on that instead of focusing on like living your life. Arguably, like I don't know, my dad is like super old. He does all the wrong things, you know, and he's he's cooking. He's cooking. Summer of Woody (14:05.07) It just makes you feel bad, right? Yeah. Summer of Woody (14:20.588) Yeah. Yeah. Corey Coates (14:24.437) He he's not hanging for a minute straight on apart when he gets out of bed, you know? No. Summer of Woody (14:29.514) No. No. If if food was a pill, would you prefer that? Corey Coates (14:40.961) Do I get the the GLP one effect of not craving food as well? Because the thing is, I like food. You know, I like the way it tastes, I like cooking it, I like the way it smells, I like eating it. I like food. So if you can s you take the pill and it's like I don't want food anymore and I don't have to eat food, ooh, that's a time saver. Summer of Woody (14:59.234) Like if you could Summer of Woody (15:07.214) That's what I mean. Like whatever for your anatomy and you figured out your your proteins, what's the right amount? Meat, protein, oats, and it just it's like a subscription service, you know, arrives at your door every thirty days and there's no cooking, there's no dishes, none of it. And it's in that pill. Corey Coates (15:23.562) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Summer of Woody (15:33.462) I guess there's like a you how the the allergy pills, there's like a a day quill and a night quill? You got your morning and you got your afternoon. Yeah. Corey Coates (15:37.813) Sure. Your breakfast, lunch, and dinner, three pills a day. I don't think I'd kid for I I don't think I'd do it. Like I would do here's where I okay, I shouldn't say that. I would do it as a supplement. Like guaranteed you've got everything optimally that you need for the day. Right. And none of that does it absorb well and do you n none of that crap. It absolutely functionally, metabolically, everything you need. Summer of Woody (16:01.229) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (16:12.636) I would totally take that. So the few times that I did eat, I could just eat really fun things that I like because this is nice. I'm watching a movie and I want a bag of chips and a beer. I don't have to worry that's like, you know, I shouldn't be eating this because I should be eating broccoli. And it's like I don't need to eat anything. I have all of the nutritional requirements met on a daily basis. That I would do. Summer of Woody (16:38.741) I think we're I I don't think see how that's impossible. I think that's that's interesting. I would do it. I would do it. I would definitely do it. I just the the p amount of people like so the Hello Fresh and the good food and the the meal prep services. It takes the decisions away, right? You're not sitting there on Sunday with your partner and thinking, What's on the grocery list this week? the Corey Coates (16:44.691) I think we're we're getting there. We're getting there. Summer of Woody (17:06.229) Chicken doesn't look good. What else are we gonna do? You know, it's just all of that stuff is is gone. Add on, you got your nutrients that you need, you got your protein that you need, everything's in there in this hypothetical. I think there's a got a lot going for it. I'm with you. I like the consuming of food, like the smell, the aromas. Have to figure that part out, but I think there's a lot a lot to the pill idea. Corey Coates (17:33.084) I like to cook though too. So that's I'm probably not a I'm a good person, a good candidate for this as a supplemental thing, but on a day-to-day. 'Cause I also like I don't have the office that I go to. I work from home, which means I cook all the time. And I've grown to enjoy a lot of that. I'm also thinking a lot about those factor meals, you know, where you just kinda like they send you a box of delicious Summer of Woody (17:59.17) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (18:02.802) Healthy, fresh cooked food just because maybe I like to pretend that I'm busier than I am. And this feels like the thing that a busy person would do. Are you busy? Summer of Woody (18:14.966) Right. Summer of Woody (18:18.591) Sometimes not right now, but sometimes I am. It it really varies, to be honest. It comes and goes. Are you? Corey Coates (18:30.447) No. The older I get, the less I want to be busy with anything. You know, slow and light. That's my that's my jam. Take my time. Just take your time. Do one or two things, kind of. And and lots and lots of executive free time in between, you know, lots of thinking and walking and breaks and reading and just stuff. Summer of Woody (18:42.028) I like it. Summer of Woody (18:47.969) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (19:00.122) You know, that's where I'm at. Like I I can't I can't grind. I just can't grind. Summer of Woody (19:05.973) I love it. no. God no. No, I I did that during COVID and I didn't care for it. You know, the time called for it, didn't have another job and was like, okay, but was happy with what I was able to accomplish, but it's not a long term long term strategy. It was just awful. No, I've the job I have now, maybe I'm a bad employee or whatever, but I'm very good at doing it in limited amount of time and only the amount of time that they actually pay me to do it. Like I don't do anything outside of that. And to go for walks in the afternoon. I the summer. In the winter. I tell myself in the winter I'm gonna go for walks too, but on those minus twenty days, I'm just like, you know what? I'm not not doing that. Corey Coates (19:48.569) Those are my faves. I got the right gear. I love it. The colder the better. The colder the better. Yeah, no, that's me. Eve even when I had I had an office downtown, I would take the train like a guy with a bag and get on the train and go to my office to work. And I would show up and drink coffee and sit down at my desk and go, here we go, I'm gonna work. And I spent probably 80% of my office time going to the timeout market, strolling over to the church. Summer of Woody (19:49.953) Really? Ugh Ugh Summer of Woody (20:18.732) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (20:18.818) Maybe go to the library, go for a walk, sit on a parked bench, watch some YouTube, answer some emails, pack my bag, get on the train and go home. And I would I was spending 20 grand a year doing that, you know. And I'm like, I can just do that at home, but with food. Yeah, and and I can poop in my own toilet if I need to. So I'm like to hell with that. And then I realized it's like I I went through this phase where for years I've Summer of Woody (20:28.663) I think that's what a lot of office people do. Summer of Woody (20:37.751) Right. Corey Coates (20:48.568) Felt like I should be doing more, right? It's not I I everyone seems to be so involved in whatever it is they do. But I I've never been that way. And I I decided one day I'm gonna stop feeling bad about that. I like having lots of free time. And then for an hour and a half in the afternoon, I will go to the library and I will like something will happen that's really good, deeply focused. Very excellent, and then I'll just walk away and then I'll I'll go cook a steak. And that's my day. You know, or one now I'm now I'm doing this thing where I'm just I'm grouping my meetings into two days: Tuesdays and Thursdays. I go to the gym and I take meetings. That's all I do. And it means that when on the Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays, I can just Do nothing or go, you know, that project I've been thinking about getting on, I'm I'm gonna go down to the library and I'm gonna work on that. But like the sit at my desk and do work, the only thing I sit at my desk and do is take meetings and and compose emails. Summer of Woody (21:54.606) You're the you're the human version of the European vacation. Corey Coates (22:02.068) What is that? Summer of Woody (22:03.147) You know, it's one of my favorite things and I'm a little bit jealous. But you know, like we're in July right now. So if you email someone in Europe today you will get an automatic email response. Like everybody in the world when they're on vacation. But the Europe version is I've gone on holiday for eleven weeks. I'm deep in the German woods. I might read this three months from now and get back to you. If it's really important, I suggest you email me again in three months. Corey Coates (22:34.901) Right. Summer of Woody (22:46.389) Which I respect a lot. If if you need to talk to that person, it's annoying. But I really like, wow, we should adopt that. Like I love that. Corey Coates (22:46.709) There's Corey Coates (22:55.029) There's a more severe version of it. I understand in France that it's federally legislated that the company's server cannot push the email to the employee while they're on vacation. They can't even see it. You can send it, but the response is, I am not even going to see this email, you know, because my company and my government does not permit it. And that's it. Summer of Woody (23:19.671) There's a awesome TED talk. I think his name is Adam Alter, who describes this and he gives two examples of I believe they're in Germany, German companies. One is the the respond the automatic responder, which doesn't come from the person's inbox that you're sending it to, comes from like the organization and says, you know, Corey is on vacation right now, he's away. This email will be automatically deleted in 30 seconds. He will never know it existed. If you'd like to send another email four weeks from now when he's back, feel free. And the second one is there's this company where all the in the office, all the desks for some r are on like poles, you know, so at like six PM or whatever, all the desks with the computers on them get lifted. Corey Coates (23:56.116) Right. Right. Summer of Woody (24:13.555) up to the roof of the office. So you cannot continue working after whatever, five PM, six P. Corey Coates (24:16.485) I love that. You can't work. Corey Coates (24:25.127) What a strange creature we are that any of this has to be this way. Like Summer of Woody (24:28.429) I don't know. And then you have North American culture where it's like, I'm on vacation literally right now. I'm having dinner with my family and my kids. Give me thirty seconds, I'll call you back. Yeah. Corey Coates (24:42.493) Right right or my favorite, I'm gonna be on vacation, but I'll be checking emails. Why? But I think there there's a culture in the US where you you'll be replaced. You're feeling as well, if this I will find somebody who will respond to email while they're on vacation. So how about that? You know, th I guess that's why that the the Europeans have to get so extreme about legislating it, but I I think I'm getting to a place where I just you know what happened to me? This happened to me years and years and years ago. Started I was started the company grinding, caring, you know, doing all the the right things that one does as a as an entrepreneur. And I I got sick, like super sick for like four or five days, right in the middle of a bunch of projects, you know, like just a flu or something. And I didn't respond to emails or Slack or messages or check. I didn't do anything. I just was sick and then I got well. And then I'm like, man, here we go. And I checked in and nothing happened. Summer of Woody (25:49.173) Ha ha ha Corey Coates (25:49.837) Nothing changed, everything nobody cared. Like it's like, that's well. And then and then we just carried on. And I'm like, wait a minute, I can just disappear for like days on end and nothing changes. So I've been experimenting over years with this. Like the last time I went away for three weeks. Summer of Woody (25:53.751) Yeah. Corey Coates (26:11.333) And nothing happened. It was great. So I I know everyone doesn't have that luxury, but w there is, I think, a balance to be struck where you say, you know what? No one really cares that much. And if you do, maybe that's not what you should be doing. Summer of Woody (26:26.134) Right. Nothing happens. I'm a big fan of that. Nothing that's the title of my book, Nothing Happens. Corey Coates (26:33.35) That's a good that's a good title. Summer of Woody (26:33.518) You know, not that they you know, nobody has responsibilities, but you're like what's the worst if you remove me for three days from whatever this is, what is the worst that could happen and nothing really ever happens? Remove me for a month unannounced, okay, maybe, yeah, sure. But maybe not also. You know, I think you'd be surprised how other people just kinda keep doing their own thing and Nothing happens. Corey Coates (27:05.423) The survival and evolution of the human species is loosely based on our ability to accomplish the most by putting the least amount of effort into it. That's a survival tactic. That is not laziness. That's how we're wired, right? And that we can find efficiency in work absence, I think is a plus, right? It's I've always been a task-based guy night at not a time-based guy. It's like you work from Monday to Friday to who who what is that? Like that makes no sense. I think we've all realized that now, but I still I don't think we can still get ourselves out of that mindset. I I still catch myself thinking, did I put in a good day today? Did I get a full day's work in? I should make up for it tomorrow until you get sick and then you realize nobody missed you and no one cares because it doesn't matter. Summer of Woody (27:44.078) Right. Corey Coates (28:05.764) 'Cause nothing happened. Summer of Woody (28:09.39) True. Especially at this time of year when it's summer and it's beautiful outside in the in the afternoon. I find myself usually I I I feel most productive in the morning, so I do that. And I'll go for walks and go to the park in the afternoon. And if the mood strikes, you know, eve seven o'clock, eight o'clock in the evening and the mood's up work at something if I want to. I'm not beholden by the time of day it is, you know. And I really like spending, you know, between two and four PM outside and going around and doing something and then saying, Okay, well at after I watch Jeopardy, I can take that do that thirty minute thing that I didn't do at two o'clock and just do it now. And that works for me. Corey Coates (28:54.541) I have a I have an ethics work question. Since we're on work. have you ever AI slopped on somebody? Ever slopped somebody? Summer of Woody (28:56.706) Yeah. Summer of Woody (29:04.428) Slopped somebody. Probably. Probably. Is my honest answer. I can't think of a time that I actually did it, but probably. I try not to use AI for things that I send to people. I really don't like people that write emails using AI and send me an email. That really bugs me for some reason. I'm just like, I don't know. At least like edit it or something. Like change it. Like it's clearly like Corey Coates (29:28.063) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (29:35.106) Like I know you. Like why you why are you writing it like that? Have you? I feel like you've stopped. Twice. Corey Coates (29:37.045) Right. Right. Corey Coates (29:43.681) Twice. Twice. Yeah. Once was, you know, just it wa and I was being sloppy about the slop. And then a second time I'd I'd rather not talk about, but let me tell you I I am getting slopped on all over the place now by people, usually on Friday afternoon. And you know that you just got slopped on when it's like they're sending you like a nine page SOP. Summer of Woody (29:54.69) Yeah. Summer of Woody (30:01.121) Okay. Corey Coates (30:13.639) Friday at three PM, expecting you to A read it and then B do something about it. And I have a a new kind but polite reply before I I do something. Because I c I clear when I see the email and I see the attachment, I'm like you didn't do this. Summer of Woody (30:30.283) Tell me. Corey Coates (30:39.686) I will I will kindly respond. It's like I'm happy to take a look at this, but before I do, do you mind my asking? Did you write this? And if not, did you read this? And you'd be surprised how few people write back at all. Cause they just got they just caught they just got caught slopping on me. They didn't write it. If they did, they didn't read it, 'cause if they had written it or read it, they wouldn't have sent it. Summer of Woody (31:12.686) I like that a lot. My version of that. is I don't know if it's more direct or if someone sends me something that's like nine pages, I'll just say I don't have time to read that. Can you send me your one page version? Corey Coates (31:30.184) That's nice. That's nice. Summer of Woody (31:32.046) 'Cause I'm not reading nine whatever, even what could be the most important thing in my life. I'm not it's not n I'm not reading nine pages of whatever. Like, can you condense whatever you think is the most important into a one page? Maybe two. Fine. Front and back. And again, the response rate is basically zero. Nobody ever replies back to that. Corey Coates (31:48.222) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (31:56.306) I had a fresh one. I get these kind of emails now where they're clearly AI is just slopping back at me a bunch of their sloppy slop. And I'm now replying very kindly Thank you for your email. I do not have time to respond to robots. Summer of Woody (32:17.055) I like that. I like that. Corey Coates (32:18.342) That's it. That's it. If you want to write me an email, I would be happy to read it and respond. So this is all leading towards I I'm I'm thinking of charging clients something I call slop fees. Summer of Woody (32:32.269) go on. Corey Coates (32:35.984) It's like there's gonna be in our agreements or proposals, you can choose, right? There's a line item that's slop fees. If you want to use AI to slop on our team, and you take two seconds to create nine hours of work, I'm going to charge you nine hours of AI slop fees for all of the time that your robot made us work. Right? This unthoughtful spit it out, that looks good. Summer of Woody (33:03.394) Love it. Corey Coates (33:04.647) That's fine. We're just going to charge you. Now, to be fair, we have a discounted rate. Right? There is the human slop fee and then there's the AI slop fee. So for half the price, I can get my AI to do the work for you and send you back some more slop. But either way you're getting billed because I have to prompt that thing. Summer of Woody (33:24.865) You know the Spider Man meme where the three Spidermans are pointing at each other? Corey Coates (33:28.337) Yes, yes. Summer of Woody (33:30.497) There's a teaching meme related to what we should call slop fees, what you've mentioned. There's 'cause there's this question of if Teachers are creating assignments using AI. And the students are completing assignments using AI. And then the teachers are grading the assignments using AI. What's actually happening? Summer of Woody (34:05.345) Right. Corey Coates (34:09.306) I w I was riding with my partner the other day and there was a news piece about a professor who is midterms, eighty-one percent of his students failed the midterms because they did the assignment using AI. How did how did he find out? Well, in the forum where the assignment was posted, he wrote, you know, incorporate the word Mississippi in a completely unusual way in this. And then he turned the text white. So you visibly, yeah. So that you couldn't see it as a person, but the AI sees it. And he's like anything that comes back that has random things about Mississippi and it's like this, this you fail. This was done by AI. And I was I was saying to my partner, it reminded me of when I was was academic director. Summer of Woody (34:45.162) It changed the phone. Corey Coates (35:05.176) And I had to send out blast emails that were important, but I knew most people didn't read. And I used to put a secret word in the email in the middle of it. If you have read this email, the secret word is banana. Please reply with banana to know that you have read the email. And maybe 30% of the teachers would ha ha banana because they wrote it, they read it. And then I would just secondary email to all of these. And it's like, in the middle of that, I know you did not read the first email. So I'm sending you the second one. If you have read that second one, please reply with Gorilla. Right. And I would do that all the way until they all finally said the secret word. Because it was like you just know they're not reading this thing. You know they're not. Summer of Woody (35:41.697) Amazing. Summer of Woody (35:47.938) There was a great article I read last summer in The New Yorker about it was I think it was called The Death of the Essay question mark. And it was all about it was an the writer sat down with professors and students and together collectively discussed AI use and the students all admitted that they use AI, and the professor was talking about how he, you know, looked at at that. And if all essays are going to be done with AI from students, you know, what's the point? And how does that affect critical thought? And it was a really interesting like where and the students admitted, of course, that, you know, critical thinking and learning is still important, but being efficient is also important, you know, not to waste so much time. So where does this lead us? And it was a really interesting thought piece, I thought, on how we assess and later how we qualify because at the end of the day you graduate from NYU or Columbia or any university? A company that's interested in hiring you believes in the that certificate that you get from the university if that's your qualification to work here. So how does that change that dynamic, if at all? It it how do we change assessing people or do we change assessing people? Or do we just incorporate AI into this Maze because it's it's here. It's not gonna go anywhere. So it was a very like interesting article. Corey Coates (37:14.091) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (37:18.281) I mean, I don't think it's hyperbole to say that we're at a crossroads. but I'm a bit of an anarchist. I'm like, look, you know, we all gotta eat and have a house and, you know, doctors. But there's a point. Well, there's no but. I think though, it's it's high time that a lot of these systems kinda change to be something else, and that we stop doing. Summer of Woody (37:23.329) Right. Corey Coates (37:47.999) doing a lot of busy work for, you know, paper. It's kinda strange that we we do a lot of the stuff that we do. And it's it's I mean it's born of demand that we demand to have all of these bizarre things that we do, but I I'm I'm not on one of the I've ever I've noticed lately. There's there's two polar extremes to the AI perspective, at least those that are vocal about it. There's the the pure anti AI like Skynet the world's coming to an end, and then the pure AI, you know, cancer's gonna be cured on Thursday, with with very little nuance or anything in between the two. Summer of Woody (38:05.175) Sure. Corey Coates (38:29.673) But on the one extreme of it, something that does concern me is I wonder if there is any validity that we're we're heading towards a post literate society. Summer of Woody (38:43.508) Off air, if we call this on air, I told you a r a YouTube channel that I like called ASAP Science, which is two Canadian dudes, scientists. And a recent video that they released caught my attention and I watched it, and it was called Is Gen Z Dumber? Corey Coates (38:51.849) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (39:10.026) And evidently, yes is the answer. Now, they go through and there's a lot of nuance and they pr the reason I like the channel is they present the science and the evidence behind the question that they're asking. And obviously how you measure intelligence depends on how you're answering this question. And the answer to the to this is not shocking. It's they are actually better and more literate in visual mediums, right? Corey Coates (39:22.495) Right. Summer of Woody (39:40.139) And they are much less literate and quote unquote intelligent in long form, in reading, in dissecting information, in critical thinking that comes from reading something. They're all they're very good at critical thinking, applying it from something that they've watched, video based, but their attention and their ability to focus is significantly lower than previous generations. I don't think that's surprising, but it was interesting to see the data on how they measure it. Corey Coates (40:16.123) And if that's a thing that's worthy of the measurement in the first place, you know, okay, take a guy from a twenty-year-old from nineteen fifty and plop him into twenty twenty-six, this yokel's an idiot, right? This this guy's not gonna do well in life, period. So if the metric is his ability to read and retain and synthesize information, you know, perhaps. But we're the world's changing, right? And Summer of Woody (40:20.684) Right. Summer of Woody (40:42.008) Hmm. Corey Coates (40:43.899) Like we're I think we're on the cusp of and maybe this is another day and another conversation, but I think we're at the tail end of the boomer rain, right? The like I don't wanna be there, you guys ruined the world, but you know, they did. You guys are still ruining the world, but you know, they are. And I don't want to be the guy that's like, This is finally the time where we that we get to actually take over from the idiots. Summer of Woody (40:56.152) Yeah. Corey Coates (41:13.095) That have kind of screwed everything up. Summer of Woody (41:15.01) Reading's a pill. Corey Coates (41:17.107) Exactly. Summer of Woody (41:22.05) Would would your partner drink that drink? Summer of Woody (41:31.096) This is something that my partner and I have been discussing recently. Summer of Woody (41:38.262) The the boy version of stuff and the girl version of stuff. And Maya's premise. You know y you know the Aperol spritz. Yeah, you're familiar with the spritz? Corey Coates (41:49.038) I do, I do. Yep. Summer of Woody (41:52.623) If do a survey, a visual survey of the people drinking the spritzes, you probably notice skews female. I think the Negroni is the male Aperal Spritz. Corey Coates (42:08.078) Okay, here's can I say something to that? Because first of all, I'm a girl drink drunk every day, right? I'm I'm good with that. I noticed that you were having a Negroni and I'm like, and my first to be honest, visceral where it came from, who cares, reaction is I was having a little girl drink. Summer of Woody (42:11.01) Mm-hmm. Corey Coates (42:36.824) What is that? Why am I even thinking that? 2026 What is that? Summer of Woody (42:44.15) 'Cause it's not it's not gr it's an acquired taste, certainly. Have you had a Negroni? It's it's it's an acquired Corey Coates (42:55.822) had Negro. Summer of Woody (42:57.666) didn't care for it. Old fashioned, very similar. I think that's Corey Coates (43:00.995) Not. Corey Coates (43:06.786) I can drink an old fashioned every day of week. Summer of Woody (43:08.844) You like that more than a Nicarani? Okay. Corey Coates (43:10.99) Have you ever had a pimps? Summer of Woody (43:13.428) Yes. A long time ago. Corey Coates (43:16.462) It's like dirt in a bottle. Summer of Woody (43:19.822) The other one we were discussing is 'cause we I said we were we're doing the show again. And my my hypothesis is always when two men or two straight men miss each other, they don't say I miss you. They say let's start a podcast. Corey Coates (43:37.834) Start a podcast. No, you're dead on. You're dead on. Summer of Woody (43:39.722) And the female version of that is, you know, the Instagram posts of, you know, proving that they went out somewhere, the night out. Here are the pictures of you know, and we're gonna record this and we're gonna put it on the internet. Here's our proof, we're hanging out, we're doing it. Corey Coates (43:47.982) God, that's so funny. That is true. Corey Coates (43:53.23) That is that is the girl version of two dudes just not having a phone conversation. Cause really that's what we should do. We should pick up the phone and just talk to each other. But why that's I I'm not Summer of Woody (44:00.952) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (44:10.078) Ugh Ugh. It's a long distance and I don't know. Corey Coates (44:12.483) You know? Long distance. That's the issue. That's the big issue. Summer of Woody (44:15.96) Okay. Corey Coates (44:20.214) I I wanna I I do hate saying because there's nothing I loathe more. Well, there's some things I loathe more, but there's one thing I really loathe is when podcasters talk about their podcast. It's kinda the worst. But I I do want to say to whomever is weirdly listening to this that there's there was I I checked the I was gonna cancel the account. This was the point. Every month I get a little bill from my little podcast hosting. And I'm like, you what? What is this thing anymore? So I logged in. There's like six thousand plus downloads of the show, which is weird. Like three, four hundred ep like per episode. I have clients that paid a lot of money that don't get numbers like we're getting. Summer of Woody (44:56.856) That's crazy. Corey Coates (45:04.524) doing this. So I'm like, I don't know, why don't we keep doing it? Summer of Woody (45:05.646) Let's keep doing it. I'm in. I'll get a girl drink next time. I got a spritz. I don't like Aperol, I've learned, but a Hugo spritz I can do. Corey Coates (45:14.218) I'm gonna get a boy drink. I'm gonna get a whiskey and a Corey Coates (45:24.365) I I like bubbly drinks. I like fruity drinks, I like straws, I like pieces of fruit in them, I like marasino cherries. Summer of Woody (45:34.287) You know what I've I do too. Let's just say that. Usually when we go out to a patio or a bar, like a fancier bar, and you get that drink menu cocktails, you know, there's no pictures of the cocktails on the menu. Almost always the one that I order that just sounds good to me. It's got a little umbrella in it. Almost always. Or it's got a like a swirly straw. Or like a half a pineapple or something, you know. Corey Coates (46:07.232) You know what I'm doing? I'm having fun. That's what I'm doing. I'm just having fun. What is it? Summer of Woody (46:12.342) Is this what it feels like when you get to a certain I mean, you know, I'm a little younger than you. Is this what it feels like when you get to a certain age and you just stop caring about all that stuff and you just enjoy what you enjoy? Is this what is this what's happening? Corey Coates (46:23.572) There is, there is, you've you've gone over the edge. You know, because there's the thing where it's like, I you know, I remember when I was in my late 30s, early f early forties, and people were kind of saying, It's like, that guy doesn't give a fuck. You know, and there you're there. You're thinking, I don't give a fuck what you think. I'm having a good time. This is fun. I'm not hurting anybody. You're annoyed, too bad for you, right? Summer of Woody (46:42.35) Right. Summer of Woody (46:47.052) Not trying to impress anybody. I like this. Give me a blue drink with an umbrella and I'll be a happy guy. Swirly straw, here we go. Corey Coates (46:50.418) It's a good way to be. It's a good way to be. Corey Coates (46:57.258) 'Cause I think there was another point where it's like all the things that I thought might happen if I did the things that I wanted to do, I you realize aren't going to happen. Like it's d most of the things that you do are completely inconsequential, disinteresting to everyone around you. And if you do them with piss and vinegar and vigor, people are actually gonna respect you for it. Like, that guy does his own thing. That's pretty cool. Summer of Woody (47:22.637) Mm-hmm. Summer of Woody (47:28.942) Maybe we'll have a maybe that's the name of the show. Girl Drinks. Corey Coates (47:35.796) Girl drinks. I could say this, I could see this, I could see not to turn this into a drinking show, but I could see us showing up next episode with a girl drink. Summer of Woody (47:49.293) I can see that. Summer of Woody (47:53.814) There's a you like a Paloma? Corey Coates (47:57.898) I don't know what that is. Summer of Woody (47:59.918) I was hoping you do 'cause I don't know how to explain it. It's just really delicious. Maybe we do Palomas. Corey Coates (48:07.569) I will. All right, that sounds fun. All right. I think keep it at a tight forty five, let people live their lives. Summer of Woody (48:16.12) Thanks for listening. Corey Coates (48:17.723) Yeah, big time. All all where are where are you're weird. I dig this. Thanks. Summer of Woody (48:22.978) Who are you?