Welcome to Greater Things, a Catholic podcast with Director of Liturgy J.D. McQueen and Fr. Barry Cuba from St. Teresa Catholic Church in Austin, Texas. What greater things should we consider this week? Let's find out.

Hi, this is Fr. Barry Cuba, along with Mr. J.D. McQueen. You want to say hi? Hello, people of God.

That was J.D. McQueen, and we are with you with Greater Things. And with Greater Things, what we try to do is look at all the stuff that's going on in our lives, kind of all the things that the world tells us are great and all the things that we're supposed to be doing. And as we compare our lives and everything with each other, and then we go, OK, we look at our faith and we see within that Jesus' call, sometimes gentle, sometimes very straightforward to say, I invite you into something greater, something deeper, this relationship with me, which permeates and really directs your entire life. 

And I think it got us thinking since it's been a while since we had a podcast, the conversations we've had with people, the stuff that's going on in our own life, and why sometimes it's so difficult to say, hey, let's sit down and have a podcast. And it's hard to find what you will often hear that work life balance, how to find, you know, with all the demands, all the expectations and even all the good things, how do you sort of plan that out? And even in the planning, what is that supposed to look like? There's so many like influences on that and influencers on that. I think I've talked too much on the podcast since our last discussions and stuff. 

I'm not sure if I mentioned that my sister is pregnant and we've been walking with her in that journey. And there are so many people that seem to have like opinions that they are willing to share with her as she's walking around in random places and stuff. You should be doing this. 

And how could you be doing this? And how could you not? And it's even in that it's confusing. And we were just talking about it before this podcast, how I am in awe. And I mean that sincerely of so many of our families who are listening and parents and just their ability to kind of, not just kind of, their ability to work and then come home and model virtue and model the faith and then place all of this in the hands of God and say, I don't know what's going to happen with my children, but I'm going to do the best that I can. 

And I ask you to protect them. There's just, there's a lot, there's a lot of life and a lot of lifing kind of going on that I think people ask you, people ask me. They read books, they go online. 

What does a balanced life look like? What does that even mean? You have it figured out, J.D. 100%. So I do. You do. 

That's exactly what a balanced person would say. But do you ever get those questions or do you ever have people or do you even have those yourself? Because I know I get them. They'll say, how do you balance life as a priest? And we can talk about that too. 

But just even the concept of balance, like what's your kind of experience around that? Because people come to me asking about it and I'm like, I don't know if I'm the one sometimes to tell you. I don't know if you're going to the right person, but I want to learn too. I think we all do. 

Yeah. I think that when people talk about a work-life balance, there's a lot of things that go into that. Just like what you were saying that your poor sister is experiencing for the first time in her pregnancy where everyone has opinions and everyone has thoughts. 

It's a lot. It really is. Even for those of us who have had children, even some of the things that you learn the first time that you have a child that are different or have changed a little bit the second time you have a child. 

But because it's a pretty common experience, people have a lot of experience they want to share. And for whatever reason, it's something that people feel very free around sharing. Yeah. 

And it's interesting though, because she's got to balance that and the changes in her. That's going to add a different dynamic to the marriage. It's going to change their house and their setup in their house. 

It's going to change what their careers and stuff look like. It's just so much. And I think that there's this pressure, especially that we have now in our culture, because it's so easy to just turn on the computer or look at your phone and go, I'm not doing it like this person. 

And I think there's a lot of stress regarding that. At least that's what's coming to me from parishioners and things is even when you kind of feel like you got it, you might be close to getting it. It's so easy to look and go, Oh, I'm not there yet. 

I think they're in kind of resides. The very fundamental question is we can get into some danger. And we say, I got it. 

I've done it, you know, because there's just so much that, I mean, this is a Catholic podcast, greater things. There's so much that we can do before we need to really rely on God as a source of strength. Yeah. 

It sounds like cliche until you realize how not cliche it is. You know, sometimes you don't really know how much you need to rely on God for strength and how much is there until you, that actually comes about, but you need to rely on him. And so it's interesting. 

You know, I think that that's the context of our podcast today is looking around and people are kind of wondering, there are all these things, many of them, good things, work and life and health and vacation. We're recording this in the midst of preparation for summer. You know, it could be moves, it could be careers. 

It's just a lot. Yeah. Yeah. 

I think the biggest thing, maybe the place to start with, with talking about how do you find some sort of balance is, it's kind of discerning where, you know, what all the things are that you're trying to sort through and what's their proper place. Cause there's, you know, just like we've been saying about, you know, people feeling very free to give, you know, advice about pregnancy, people feel very free to give advice about balance, but everybody is different. And so, you know, we don't want to get caught up in all of the different good things that there are, which are good, but are too many things for all of us to do all the time. 

And there are some things that are good, but may not be good for me or for you in the way that they are for other people. And so it's important to kind of know who we are to start with and where we're starting from and just kind of establishing some things, you know, before we even kind of dive into that. You know, one thing is just recognizing, Father, like you were saying, how little control truly we have and often recognizing that or being even kind of forced to confront that is a gift from God of saying, you know, hey, over here, you know, let me help you. 

And so one thing that has been, this is going to sound strange, but it's been really helpful for me was we had a family member give us a funny little gift of a poster that now doesn't, it doesn't, you know, protect anything from drinks. We just have it sitting up in our bathroom where we see it every single day, which is a helpful reminder, but it says something like, parenting is a lot like trying to stand up in a hammock without spilling your wine. And the first time I saw it, I just laughed and I laughed and I kind of stopped laughing because like, yeah, that's, that's really, that's really true. 

And then I just started laughing more because of just how ridiculous it is. But that's, I think it's an important place to start from because, you know, there's only so much we can all do. And we need to recognize that right from the beginning, because the other thing that happens a lot is that, um, uh, you know, we start to shit on ourselves. 

Um, you ever heard that expression before father? Yes. Yes. Yeah. 

Yeah. You don't need to repeat it a bunch because yeah, but no, no, we get what you're saying. Make sure the microphone is clear. 

So it's clear. That's that's just in case it's not clear. It's S H O U L D. No, it's a kind of a classic kind of pastoral pastoral time that we were taught. 

I remember you were probably taught that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 

Um, and it just means don't think about all the things that you should be doing or you should have done, or you should have thought of, or all of that, you know, you are the person that you are. And, um, and that's great. And God is, you are right. 

Who God expects you to be right now. And hopefully moving ever closer to where, um, to, to being who God created you to be, but it's important to know who we are right now. And, um, and at a time where there's, there's so many opinions and ideas and things that people will say that, um, you know, this is the thing to do, or you should do things this way or whatever, you know, we can, we can start to internalize all the things that we're not doing very quickly. 

And, um, and that makes it impossible really to balance anything when it, it feels like you're just trying to keep everything, uh, you know, up in the air. Um, yeah, no, I really, really liked that as a starting point because, you know, we need to understand that we're human. God is God, you know, we're not. 

And then an idea that kind of helped me out with that too, was actually an economic idea of opportunity cost that, you know, there's only so much you can do. That's that starting point that we have where in a society where we're told you should be doing more, you should be doing more, or should be doing less, or you should be doing less. Um, it's a great framework because there's a cost to every opportunity, right? That's the fundamental economic principle that whenever we say no to something, we're creating the opportunity for a bunch of yeses. 

Whenever we say yes to something or someone, um, it means that there are some no's that come about, some opportunities are closed. So like when you say yes to someone in marriage, or when I say yes to the priesthood, um, that closes off, you know, other spouses, you know, you're, you're committed to this and I'm committed to the priesthood, but at the same time, it gives us the opportunity to live this very unique, special, privileged, grace-filled life that we wouldn't have if we didn't say yes to it. Same thing too, uh, we've talked about this before, I know. 

And when you say no to something, yeah, it may hurt, it may be hard for some of us to do that, probably for a lot of us to do that. But when we say no, it creates opportunities for yeses. And you were, you were explaining once to me that, you know, once you know your yeses, it helps you with your no's. 

So once you know what your yeses are, your big yeses, like your spouse, your values, things like that, if you know what your yeses are, makes it easier to say no. So I think that's another thing when we're talking about balance is how do we get to know what our yeses are? I've used the example in other formats, not on this podcast, but in other like groups that I've talked to of this idea of primary vocation. What is my primary vocation in life? Because a lot of college students will struggle with this. 

A lot of adults will struggle with this. A lot of humans will struggle with this. What should I be doing? How do I know God's call for me? I believe we've talked about that on other podcasts. 

And I think it's very helpful to understand that each and every one of us has a primary vocation through which we act out all other sorts of things and make decisions from. So I've used the example for those that like computers or technology. So if you look at the basic ones and zeros, the electronic current that underscores all of life, you know, it's that we are human beings created in the image and likeness of God, which means that we have dignity. 

So does everyone else. As humans walking around, bumping into each other like tectonic plates, we should at least remember that we have the vocation of being a human in the image and likeness of God. That kind of is what I think is the thread that runs underneath the entire catechism of the Catholic church. 

Each chapter is tied to this idea of each and every human being having dignity. Why do we have social justice? Dignity, hospitals, dignity, Catholic schools, dignity. Why are we pro-life? Dignity. 

How should nations treat each other? Dignity. I mean, like you start seeing that and that's the heartbeat of our entire faith. So I like to think of that as sort of the groundwork that every human being shares in that call because that is the watermark of all creation. 

So that is everyone's primary vocation is to be a human being to another human being. Anyway, that's my basic framework for how it starts. Then I say, okay, with that being kind of the underlying current sort of of our Catholic reality, then how do we operate? We will have a primary vocation, and that's going to a lot of times just kind of come about.

People will sometimes try to force it and things, but it typically is just something that comes about through life. So people may be surprised, and then all of a sudden their primary vocation will become parent because it was spouse before or something like that. And then it kind of turns into parent because that's a role through which all other roles start becoming oriented. 

For me, priest. For others, it may be student for some of our younger folks and older folks too. But it becomes that, again, if you're technologically inclined, it becomes our sort of operating system through which we view and interact with the world.

Meaning that what I do is I see each and everything that I need to balance or accomplish or all of that through priesthood first. And that was not always the case. When I did not live with that identity being my primary vocation, I didn't know how to balance.

I had no clue how to balance because I didn't have a system that balanced everything. I didn't know it was a major decision, a minor decision, what was important or unimportant. Nothing had any kind of framework or orientation. 

And I've made this kind of comment before that there would be all sorts of ways that I was operating, but there wasn't a coherent whole. There'd be like, I've said football Barry, where I go out and all of a sudden I kind of forget that I'm a priest or whatever. And I just want to do that and get into that. 

I'm reading all of this sports stuff or whatever. And then going to the office, I wanted to be like regular Barry and then be Father Barry when I walked into the door and then like clock out and then go back to football Barry. So very interesting as I reflect on this, because we're in that season where we've kind of done the masters and anything. 

Anyway, I don't want this to become a football podcast, but we kind of just recently had the draft. But one of the things that I found that is helpful is no, I'm always Father Barry. I'm always Father Barry. 

There aren't other things that I'm kind of adopting and it's kind of like I have to tell parents sometimes, wherever you're at in life, you're always the father to your kid. You're always the mother to your child. Whatever that is, then allows you to quote unquote balance, I would say, everything else because you're operating then from that framework. 

It's that fundamental question of life. Who am I? Who am I when no one else is looking? Who am I? When I bring that to the table, it helps me to say, I don't want to be in this conversation anymore. Because there might have been a Barry in the past, it's like, I want to be the Barry that wants to be liked. 

So I want to stay in this conversation. But no, being Father Barry, operating from that OS, that operating system, literally, means that I am not wanting to be nor do I want to operate as the man that participates in gossip. That value has become higher than that value, which I may have held previously as just regular Barry, which is, yeah, I want to have fun and laugh and all that. 

It doesn't mean it's not good, but I just cannot do it in that way anymore. Because it's just not consonant with that framework. I know that that's a lot. 

But I hope it makes some kind of sense that once you kind of know your primary vocation, and a lot of times it may not even be the one you want or that you expected or things like that. But it's what God has laid out before you. And it's the thing even behind your job, by the way, I think that's an important thing to make.

It's something more even kind of primal and closer to your soul than what's on your business card or your LinkedIn profile. And good spiritual work and good spiritual prayer can kind of help you know what that is. But I don't think we can even get into a conversation about how to balance until we know what's the balancing point or what we are even trying to balance or who we are, who's trying to balance. 

Yeah, I know that's a lot. No, it is. But I really wanted you to share that because I think it's really helpful for all of us to hear. 

I think it's a pretty universal experience, especially in a transition for, you know, once you kind of figure out what that operating system is, what your primary vocation is, you still have to figure out how it works and how to really, you know, use it the way it's, you know, so that it does what it's intended to do. Because, you know, when I first got ordained and I was trying to figure out how to use my priest OS, you know, I had a lot of previous life experience of not using priest OS or just being a regular guy. And what we're talking about this too, you know, for all of our listeners who aren't seeing, you know, we're talking about kind of when we're talking about operating under an operating system, imagine you're opening a browser and there's like a bunch of tabs, you know, your tabs may be my conversation with my wife, your wife, not mine, unless it's I'm pregnant with the church anyway, but you know, it could be conversations with someone, it could be a job, it could be whatever, like all of those are little windows and apps that we view through, through like, you know, Mac or PC or whatever that is.

I just want to make sure they know the terms we're talking about. So when you're saying that, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but when you're, you know, saying that, I think it's so interesting you probably didn't even have like a tab folder to organize things under you're just kind of like living without so much kind of intention or direction. Because that's what that's what we do until we know who we want to operate as or who God is called to operate as we're all we're kind of just like reacting instead of intentionally responding.

Yeah. And that's, that's, that's really, that's really a big part of it is you know, is recognizing that, you know, now that, now that I have this, we've been saying operating system, you could say, you know, it's the lens that I view the world through. It's the framework that brings my life into order. 

I mean, you can pick an analogy you like, but it's, you know, you gotta, you gotta learn how to use it and how to, how to live it. And so that that's important thing too, that, you know, especially for, you know, we've, we've talked a lot about, you know, pregnancy and parenthood where, you know, when you, when you first have kids it feels like the whole world is upside down because there are so many things that are just different and radically reprioritized now. And then, you know, you have, as you have more kids, you start to sort of realize, okay, it's not, it's really not as much of a radical reorientation because now I kind of see how things work, but initially you're, you're, you're like really trying to feel your way through, you know, getting everything in order. 

And, you know, I remember when, when our son was born, you know, we, we had done all of the, we've gone to all of these baby classes and all kinds of things, which are, which are great because obviously I literally, I literally knew nothing about, you know, being a parent, but. I love watching my friends be parents, man. Like it's just so, so interesting. 

And I get to kind of live, live that a little bit through, through seeing, I just love hearing you. If you could see this right now, I'm smiling. Like, I just love hearing you talk about being a dad. 

Like, I just, I have to say that in front of all of our listeners, like, I, I, I really appreciate the way you, you father in your vocation. I just really do. I hope you're not the only one, but realize all this stuff later.

Well, and it is, it is really interesting to, you know, you talked about, you know, seeing friends become parents and it is interesting to see, see people's sort of personalities, you know, change, but, but still really remain who they are. But, you know, as you become more comfortable in that vocation, then it's not so much of a, there's not so much that it feels like balancing the way you think about, you know, like walking a tightrope or something like that. You've kind of learned how to use the, the system. 

It's sort of like when you get a new phone, you're like, where's all of this, how do I open this, whatever. And then you spend some time and you kind of know the, the setup and stuff. And so you use it with a little bit more facility and ease, not that it's perfect, but yeah. 

And I had some experience. Yeah. And, you know, in, we'll make a quick plug for a catalyst now that we're probably by the time you're listening to this, we'll have had our last one.

Such is life. But we're here for you during the summer. But you can, you can, you can still come in the summer and you can get ready to go in the fall again, but. 

Well, they do a breakfast. That's true. That's true. 

And it's, it's not as early, so you can, you can just kind of use your way into it in the summer. But in the last, the last several weeks, we've, at Catalyst, we've been going through a program and a series that was created by the Bush School of Business at the Catholic University of America and on the gospel of work and how, how our work should be informed by our faith. And we did the last one today.

One of the things that I really loved was in talking about the balance, one of the presenters was sharing that for her, the work-life balance was, was not trying to, like I said, you know, walk the tightrope and keep everything even and level and, and all that, but recognizing that life is just much, that trying to balance, you know, work, faith, family, all those things is really more of a, like a seesaw where sometimes you're, you know, sometimes some, you know, one thing weighs more than the other, but you're never, you're never totally giving up either thing. But it's just at different seasons in life, you know, one thing is up and one thing is, is down. But what I really loved about that was that number one, you know, you're never, it's never just like, things are, you reach perfection and like true homeostasis.

Yeah. Cause it, it really resonated with me because, you know, my experience trying to balance something like I said, with a tightrope, like if I'm trying to walk a tightrope or a slackline or something like that, you know, it's, there's a lot of frenetic reaction, like trying to, trying to like move away, but not too, but not like overcorrect. And, and it's just a very frenetic sort of feeling. 

Whereas the seesaw is just, it's very gentle, gentle and natural. And there's, there's things counterbalancing each other. And new stuff is added and taken away at all times. 

Yeah. You never even, you never even have it, even if you get it perfectly, whatever that would look like balance for like 0.3 nanoseconds, then you get a new email or you get there. It's, you know, one of the kiddos is crying or something. 

You got to go into the room and then you're balancing out all of that. So yeah, it seems like it's like you're saying a continual, continual sort of process and that's okay. Yeah. 

And that's, I think people think that it's not supposed to be sometimes, but no, the very act of living is that continual. Yeah. Just, just back and forth and, you know, ebbs and flows and, and all of that. 

And I, to me that, that just is, it feels like a much more natural sort of healthier understanding. And the other thing that, that I appreciated was that she talked about the seasons of, of our lives and recognizing the sorts of seasons that we're in, where she, at that time that they recorded the, recorded her for the series, she was pregnant and was saying, you know, when, when the baby arrives, you know, the, the, the balance will be much weighted, much more towards, you know, home and family than it will be towards work. And that's okay. 

And there'll be things at home that, you know, also sort of come and go like, well, will the house be totally spotless and immaculate all the time? You know, when we have, you know, an infant? No.