GBA IA - Episode 1
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Rob: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone, and thanks for joining us for GBA's Inclusion Advancement Committee Podcast. I'm Rob Howard with Geotechnology Associates (GTA) and I'll be your moderator. I've been with GTA for over 24 years and currently serve as the principal in charge of our Philadelphia office. GTA provides geotechnical and environmental engineering along with construction materials testing and special inspection services supported by 29 offices across 12 states. I serve as the current chair of GBA's Inclusion Advancement Committee, and I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. In the geoprofessional world, communication isn't just a soft skill. It's a core to how we collaborate, solve problems, and build trust across teams, disciplines, and backgrounds. Today we're focusing on how intentional and inclusive communication [00:01:00] can reduce friction, strengthen connection, and support a team of positive culture. The goal isn't perfection. It's awareness, thoughtfulness, and a willingness to learn from one another. We have a great panel with us today, and in a moment I'll invite each of them to introduce themselves and we'll jump right into our first topic to set the stage for an engaging and practical discussion. Dee, would you like to introduce yourself?

Dee: Yeah. Hi, good morning. My name is Dee Watson. I'm the HR administrator for Geotechnical Consultants. We are a geotechnical firm based out of Columbus, Ohio. GCI was founded in 1979, and GCI provides a complete range of cost effective geotechnical engineering, environmental, building envelope consulting and construction materials, engineering and testing services.

We help [00:02:00] clients throughout the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic regions managing risk and making timely informed decisions for our clients. I've been active with the GBA since 2020. I actually started with the, HR group and I'm still active with that committee, and I joined the Inclusive Advancement Group probably three years ago now.

Rob: Thanks Dee. Kent, would you like to introduce yourself?

Kent: Sure. I'm Kent Banister. I'm with Trek Engineering out of Winnipeg, Canada. We provide water resources, geotechnical, environmental engineering services. As well as materials and field testing services. Head office in Winnipeg where I am. And we have satellites in Brandon in Manitoba and Regina Saskatchewan. In addition to that, I am also the president and CEO of Trek. I guess I should add that. And, I am [00:03:00] also a board member sitting on the GBA board.

Rob: Awesome. Hi Margaret. How are you today?

Margaret: Good. Thank you. I'm Margaret Panera. I am from GZA, GeoEnvironmental, full service geotechnical and environmental consulting firm based out of Boston. I'm located in Chicago. I am a principal civil environmental engineer. I'm also on the operations team for GZA. I have been a part of GBA for the last five years, and I am on this Inclusion Advancement Committee, and I'm chairperson of the Environmental Business Committee.

Rob: Thank you Margaret. Thank you Kent, and thank you Dee. Why don't we get started? What do you think each side speaker and listener actually owes the other in conversation?

Kent: I can get started if you want. I, I think really the, the biggest one is just respect, right? You have to be respectful of the other person's time, what the other person may be [00:04:00] thinking. Everything just all comes down to respect.

Margaret: I like that thought. I agree with that. I think keeping an open mind when you go into conversations with people is really important. Being fully engaged and giving people your attention, both when you're speaking and when you're listening. Having patience and. You know, do you have a willingness to ask questions if something is unclear to you to try to come to a mutual understanding?

Rob: I love that perspective. What do you think, Dee? You have something on this?

Dee: I feel like, the speaker owes the listeners some intentionality and like Kent said, being very respectful, being mindful of wording that they use, staying away from topics that might stick out with identity or culture or any sensitive topic. And I think the listener owes the speaker patience, always assuming good intent of the [00:05:00] speaker rather than, you know, instantly taking a mistake as hostility by any means.

So inclusive language is always evolving, so it's good to be respectful and mindful of each other.

Rob: Awesome. Yeah, you wanna give somebody a, a safe place to share. So let's follow up on that Dee. You, especially based on your background, can you share a real life example from work where both sides stepped up, the speaker and the listener that made a tougher conversation easier. What does that look like?

Dee: One scenario that comes to mind is we have a small group initiative. where we have four team members who are a part of this small group and everyone gets really busy on their, you know, day to day, um, work commitments. And one member really wasn't able to follow through with all of their action plans.

So we had a, meeting and rather [00:06:00] than this person out or blaming, we try to have a dialogue of. How can we as a group kind of pivot and support this person while also moving forward with our team's, you know, goals and initiatives.

So, this whole dialogue was successful because we didn't call that person out.

It was more of like, how can we support you? While also the understanding of, okay, we need to move forward as a team and we wanna complete our goals. And I think that was a really good, yeah, speaking and listening.

Rob: That's, a really good example of some intentional communication and action. What do you think You have anything on this, Margaret?

Margaret: I think that's a super great example Dee gave. We do for very large projects or projects where, things might not be going as [00:07:00] smoothly as we would like. We have mid-project debriefs, so we get the whole team together to have a conversation about what's going well and what things could potentially use improvement, and we use that as a constructive discussion. Similar, I think to what Dee mentioned, uh, we try not to point fingers or place blame on anyone for how things might be going, but really talk about how can we move things forward and those kind of conversations we've found tend to be more productive than having the one-on-one conversations with people where you're really trying to talk about their individual contributions. We seem to get a little bit better, reactions out of that. And then the team is more willing to pull together to move forward. I.

Rob: Yeah. And it, and it, and it helps reduce that friction. When you talk about that friction, Kent, where do you think teams fall short when honoring their shared responsibility? What the listener [00:08:00] owes the speaker, and the speaker owes the listener? When that falls short, who shares in that responsibility?

Where does it go from there?

Kent: Well, that's a good question. I think a lot of the time where teams fall short on listening. It, it really comes down to people just being too busy, right? So it's making sure that before you start a conversation, you have the time to finish it and you're ready to give the time to finish it.

Right? Don't rush somebody. That's how misunderstandings happen. Our business tends to have a, a lot of problem solvers in it. So I know there's often a tendency for people to, you know, come with a problem or a situation and instead of listening to the person walk all the way through it, we just want to jump in and go right to the answer.

Right. So I think it's giving that person the space to, to kind of fully explain the situation before you tried to get in there and fix it for them or help them out.

Rob: Well, that's some real talk, Ken. I, I really appreciate your openness. I mean, what we're really [00:09:00] talking about is that communication is a two-way partnership. It's just not one way. And for that communication to happen, someone's going to have to be listening. And, remember, we can have a conversation and only one person, needs to do the talking as long as someone is listening. Let's jump into the next question. Where do you see communication breakdowns happening most often in office culture, whether it's between disciplines, levels of experience, or backgrounds?

Kent: Maybe I can jump in first on this one if you'd like. I was gonna say all of the above, but I think the, the place where we really see it is between disciplines. And I think it's, you know, everybody is going to something with a different goal. And maybe those goals aren't entirely aligned between departments, so some misunderstandings creeped in. But you know, obviously levels of experience also have a profound impact because sometimes you just forget that a junior person might not know something that you know is just commonplace for you. So trying to remember that as well.[00:10:00] 

Rob: Sure. Dee where do you see communication, breakdowns the most?

Dee: Yeah, just dovetailing off of what Kent said, I see in my day to day experience, a lot of, miscommunication with new hires who are being mentored by senior. Team members. If you have someone who's been with a company for 15, 20 plus years, they're kind of set in their ways. And sometimes when we have a new hire come in, and new people, younger people are really inquisitive.

They have a lot of questions. They may ask, you know, why are you doing a process a certain way? And then the senior team member, may reply with, we've always done it that way. And that's just basically where the buck stops. So that kind of, makes the younger team member just feel closed off and doesn't make them feel like they can ask [00:11:00] questions or ask for clarification.

So I think there needs to be some intentionality on, just being more inclusive with. Younger people, especially coming into the company and giving them the permission to ask basic questions.

Rob: Right, right. Yeah. You're creating that open space to share and, you know, whether it goes to Ken's point, between disciplines, your point that , may lead a little more to experience. Unless we break those barriers and not assume that they know what we're talking about and maybe ask appropriate questions so we can fully understand what they're talking about so that communication can be more open and shared.

So if I throw it at true Margaret, where do you see communication breakdown? Most often in office culture.

Margaret: When I hear this question, the first thing I think of is with levels of experience, but I agree that it [00:12:00] can also be between disciplines, but. Specifically, I've been with the same team for 25 years, and so I've been on the lesser experienced side of the spectrum and on the more experienced side of the spectrum and in different positions in those conversations over the years.

And one thing that I see, and you use the word assume, Rob, and I think sometimes there are assumptions that people just know, but they don't necessarily just know what the task is or how the organization needs to happen or how the scheduling goes. And so it's really important that you get a sense of clarity out of those discussions. But also, I think, and I certainly found myself in this position in my first few years of experience, sort of a fear to ask questions. Sometimes you don't wanna be seen as not understanding or not knowing. , You're coming out of school and thinking, [00:13:00] I know what I wanna do and I know how this is gonna go, but the reality is it's life and every project is different, every project manager is different. So we try to the best of our abilities to break down those barriers internally to say, ask the questions. Don't hesitate to ask the questions, talk to the project manager, talk to your supervisor. Talk to your mentor. And hopefully that helps to create, a productive conversation.

Kent: I think if I can just jump in quick. I think it really comes down to appreciating like where the other person is coming from and what their perspective is. Right? Try to see things from their shoes.

Rob: Well, you have to see it from issues if you're going to understand what needs to be understood. But we do understand that these breakdowns are going to happen and are we really addressing the breakdown, the miscommunication, or what's behind it? Is it the clarity that was just pointed to, is it our assumptions that was just pointed to [00:14:00] what about tone? If we communicate in a certain way, we might block someone out from hearing what we're trying to say. How does tone affect these breakdowns? Dee what do you think about tone?

Dee: Oh, I think tone is so important. It can direct the whole conversation. Someone's tone can just be so dismissive. And I think sometimes a lot of people don't even realize. I've even had people tell me that, my tone. So I really try to be intentional about, sometimes your tone can convey a posture that you don't want to come out, right.

So I think it's just being respectful.

Rob: Thank you. That's awesome. What do you think, Margaret, do you have something on that? What about that tone?

Margaret: Yeah, tone. Tone is so much of the conversation and realistically, I think, you know, we're talking about generally speech communication, you [00:15:00] know, a, a speaker and a listener, but, you can't read tone super well when you're looking at emails or teams messages. And, those are tools that we use quite a bit in our industry and especially with the quick pace.

You know, we're trying to get information across. When we're talking about these communication breakdowns, if you have a specific rapport with somebody and you can do those back and forth, that's one thing. But other times I think it's really important and critical that we take the time to have the in-person conversation, or at least try to do, a video teams discussion.

And yes, I totally agree with db. Very intentional. About how you project yourself, because the tone could completely change the message, even if you don't mean for that to be the case.

Rob: Yeah, and that tone will definitely a lot of times block the message. We can't put ourselves in a position to listen for someone to be heard if we don't put ourselves in an inviting space for that person. So [00:16:00] having an inviting space and being available is key to that communication. That briefly ties back to the article that we did, for the GBA News log, disengagement, tension and risks are all part of what happens with bad communication. Let's go to the third question. We often talk about how speakers need to be clearer, but why is the listener equally responsible for communication? What's the listener's position in all this? What do you think Margaret? What does the listener owe the speaker?

Margaret: Truly communication is a pattern of sending and receiving messages, right? So someone has to send the message. Verbally, you know, nonverbal cues and then someone has to receive that. So if you're not doing your part on the receiving end, the message may not come across the way that you need it to. I think that's like at the nuts and bolts of it, [00:17:00] that's what it is.

But, you know, making sure that you're not interrupting, making sure that you are processing what is being said before, trying to, you know, spew the next thing back, making sure that you're patient and taking time. Kent mentioned how, you know, what a fast paced, industry that we work in and, it's really important that the listener is taking on half of the responsibility. Because it realistically is a partnership.

Rob: Right. What do you think Kent?

Kent: I think Margaret pretty much nailed it, to be honest. I think it's really, you know, you're, you're committed. You have to be attentive. It's very easy to get distracted in this world, especially on teams, things like that, where, you know, you've got messages coming in on the side all the time. And it's really easy to get pulled away. So I think you know, particularly for a very important conversation, make sure that you are giving it the attention it deserves.[00:18:00] 

Rob: Understood. So , I'm the person. I need to get away from my computer. I need to get away from the cell phone. I need to get away from the telephone. Not that anybody used the telephone. I may need to get away from the lunch. I may need to get away from the coffee for a second and say, Hey, let's go have a conversation.

Let's go open for each other. So when I say creating this environment that someone can be heard, I'm gonna throw it to you, Dee. What does that look like in a fast-paced work environment? What does good listening look like? Can you tell when somebody is listening to someone else?

Dee: Oh yeah. Deer in the headlight. I think active listening is really important. Good listening. Active listening. So if you're in a high, a fast paced, environment like we all are, I think the important thing, for the listener, if [00:19:00] they're misunderstanding anything, is to ask clarifying questions.

What do you need from me right now? Or making sure that you're using neutral language if you are under stress. And just try to verify understanding quickly, asking questions like, let me check if I understand this. It's a consistent two-way street.

Rob: So it's interesting what you're talking about, Dee you're relating to staying curious, and that's by asking questions. That way, it's not more of a defensive thing and it's not for more, I'm here to throw it back at you. No, I'm here to listen. And the more you ask questions, the more curious you are, the more they'll be open and the more you'll have a good communicative conversation.

So asking those questions, you called it clarifying questions, getting on the same page very, very key in, in clear communication. [00:20:00] So let me throw it out there. Have you seen a situation where a listener changed the outcome simply by staying curious instead of defensive? What does that look like? What do you think?

Have you seen that Margaret?

Margaret: Sure. We definitely have, we've had situations in our team where, tensions can potentially run high sometimes with deadlines. And, if something is sort of approaching a deadline and it becomes a challenge for, how do we meet this, how do we achieve this? We try to ask the questions about why we are where we are, what is it that we could do to help, how can we support what's going on versus, preaching.

I think that never seems to go over well. Just do this, take care of this. Um, if you can ask the questions, and that allows the person to take ownership. Of [00:21:00] where they are and how they might wanna move forward. I think that allows them to not feel defensive because it really do feel like when people feel defensive, the discomfort kind of spreads through whatever it is, the conversation through the project, and we don't want those kinds of situations to occur.

So asking those questions allows them to have some level of responsibility and autonomy in the situation. I think that's a helpful position to take.

Rob: Thanks for sharing that, Margaret. So, Kent, you're in that conversation. You can tell that the listener, or maybe they're , the speaker, they're getting defensive. They're starting to backpedal a little bit. They're starting to close up. The conversation becomes less the words the sentences just become words. How do you flip the switch on that?

Kent: Maybe that's the time to stop the conversation, right? Think about [00:22:00] giving everybody a break, you know, come back the next day when cooler heads prevail, when you've had a chance to think about what went wrong and to make sure it's not gonna happen again. That would probably be my go-to answer. I. I have a hard time kind of calming myself down, so it's better to just exit.

Rob: Right and come back at it with a fresh mind. That has happens with all our communication, whether it's out. Verbal communication or our written communication about that email. Maybe I'm gonna have to calm down a little bit before I reply to this email. So sometimes you have to provide that safer space where the playing field is level and the emotions are level, so you can really be open and honest about your, conversation.

And thanks for sharing, Kent, and letting us see what that looks like in real life. Let's go to our final question for today. How can teams normalize the idea that misunderstandings happen? It's part of life without assigning blame. So can [00:23:00] something happen without it being anybody's fault? How does that allow us to take ownership on our end? Open up to the table.

Kent: Apparently, I like to really jump in early, so why don't I do that again here. Um, I try to always remind people and, and tell all of our folks that, you know. Everyone's trying to do a good job, right? And as long as you kind of start every conversation thinking that the other person is trying to do a good job, and they're not waking up in the morning thinking, boy, I really hope I make a mess of things today. That's a good place to start. Right? Make sure that they, you know, that people are coming from a positive space. It's important to acknowledge if a misunderstanding has happened, but don't dwell on it. Move on to fixing it, right? Don't you know we've had a problem. Let's think about how we're gonna fix it and, and move on.

Rob: That's awesome. You know, and we always talk at GTA, we're going to have problems. They're going to be things that arise, whether it's technical or non-technical in the field or in the office. So come with your solution when you're [00:24:00] addressing the problem. So you can look at that add it on the other side. You just said something, Kent, you're talking about assuming that positive intent. Have that positive intent and don't assume the worst. Go into it with a positive attitude. Because that'll better the chance that you open that space with the other person can be heard. What do you think about that Dee, about not assigning blame when things happen and maybe taking ownership on your own end. 

Dee: I think that we need to treat misunderstandings as normal part of, you know, when people come together to collaborate and not take everything so personally offensive. It's okay to have a misunderstanding. Again, always going back to being respectful when those situations happen. I think someone said earlier, pause, pause before you react.

Try to not be reactive. Try to not, go into a mindset of fault finding, and [00:25:00] just, ask the right questions. Use neutral language, when breakdowns happen, , you know, I think we're seeing things in a different way. Can you clarify, can you explain and just use language like that, which it kind of sets the tone so that you don't want to heighten anyone's anxiety. Maybe, you know, I think that can happen when people are, especially if you're in a team meeting or something like that and there's a misunderstanding and it's even more than one person. You really wanna be able to check yourself and just try to like, have a good tone and ask the right questions.

Rob: I like that neutral language. I mean, not imposing, not intimidating, not degrading, you're not putting someone down. We the same. So let's talk on that same wavelength and, and really look to communicate. So when you talk about that neutral [00:26:00] language, give me someone, gimme a Margaret, a language, a phrase, something that resets that tone. I understand, maybe I empathize with you. I feel you. You know, , what do you think about, what's that kind of language look like when you need to reset the tone in the room where you need to bring it back down?

Margaret: I think all of those are good examples. I think you have the ability to, um, I, I, I really like Dee's examples of asking questions, clarifying questions, because it helps to deescalate if something is sort of becoming contentious. I think that absolutely has the power to help deescalate the situation. I think, using your body language, if you're having an in-person conversation, using your body language to, to kind of, relax, take a breath, sit [00:27:00] back and say, you know, where are we going with this? How can we move forward together? And try to put people into problem solving mode instead of, blaming mode or instead of, reaction mode. If you kind of re-trigger that thought process into problem solving mode, I think that maybe also could help to deescalate sometimes.

Rob: Right. That problem solving mode, that curiosity, that what I can do to help you is better than that reactivity that you were just referring to. Kent, any language or phrasing helps you retone it and, well, why don't I put it like this? You're a leader. How do you model your phrasing, your language, your body tone, so that it's a culture so that people pick up on this and are ready to use what they see you emulate out there in the office and in the field. What does it look like?

Kent: I [00:28:00] generally try to keep things positive. I try to remind myself to smile from time to time, right? Just putting a smile on my face just tends to make me more positive when I'm talking to people. And that's really what I focus on. I don't like to dwell on, you know, what's happened in the past. I'd just like to move forward.

Rob: Moving forward is a good thing, especially when you communicate because you don't get caught up. And it might provide you an opportunity to hear the thing behind the thing, listen to what's behind the words being said, and open yourself up, and having that posture, as Margaret said, that body language, you know, it's, it's also what we say.

What about if somebody's talking to us and we're sighing, you know, poor communication without even saying words. So, Dee. Anything to wrap up this misunderstandings are going to happen, nobody's fault. How do you make sure that [00:29:00] you can ease that discomfort? I mean, this is part of your job. You know the rules and regulations, but you need to talk to people.

Dee: Right. I think, establishing a culture of norms, and it really has to come from leadership down. I think just reiterating, if you're in a situation that can be a heightened misunderstanding, I think pausing is really important. Not being reactive. Just try to focus on shared un understandings, not assigning blame.

And it's just, a team practice really. It's a shared practice. It's not a speaker leader is responsible for all of this. The listeners are too, and I think it just has to become a part of your culture.

Rob: Awesome. And so much more than that if it's part of your culture. If it's part of your mindset, these are good [00:30:00] tools that you can use at home. These are good tools that you can use at the supermarket. These are good tools that you can use while you're driving, when you're nicely communicating with other, vehicles on the highway. So use these skills, take 'em home with your using at work because, these relating to the culture that creates a safe space for open and honest communication, and that's what we're talking about. And the whole point that it starts with the leaders, it starts with the leaders in the company, and it will go down to everyone else in the company if we, walk that walk.

Well, I think that's what we have for today. In our next episode, we'll shift from how we communicate to the words we choose and how small language choices can strengthen connection, reduce friction and support a more inclusive culture.

Thank you to our panelists for your time, your insight, and your commitment to Geoprofessional [00:31:00] Business Association and our Inclusion Advancement Committee. Your leadership in advance and inclusive language truly makes a difference. We thank you for spending time with us today and I look forward to continuing the conversation. We'll see you next time.