David Gary Wood (00:09) ⁓ Tra la la la la tra la la la la la la la la la Daniel (00:11) la la ha ha ha la la la la la la la la la Dave, happy new year. David Gary Wood (00:20) Daniel, happy new year, it's good to see you. Daniel (00:23) It's the first recording of the new year. It's fantastic to see her. David Gary Wood (00:27) Yeah. ⁓ I hope you had... It's going well. It's going really well. I was just going to say as well, I hope you had good celebrations and good times over the break. And yeah. Yeah. Daniel (00:28) How's it going? did, I did. We were hosting Christmas for the first time ever, so I was the Christmas host and it was really nice. I made a lot of good food. David Gary Wood (00:49) And this is in your, it's in your new place in the Hamburgs. Daniel (00:55) Right, right. And we had a bit of family over and I got nice presents, I gave nice presents. And New Year's Eve was also very nice. So yeah, I had an actual break. I feel like I actually disconnected from work for the first time in a billion years, which feels really good. David Gary Wood (01:14) Lovely. That's awesome. Daniel (01:15) Also, we haven't recorded for ages, so I also kind of felt disconnected from you. So I'm happy to be reconnected here. David Gary Wood (01:19) Yeah, that's that too. No. Likewise, but I think it's been good to have a good break. Like I had three weeks off from my day job because they, well, they kind of mandated it. work in the NZ side of the company and there's a mandatory shut down for two weeks anyway across the whole company. And the NZ side said, hey, we've got too much annual leave on the books for people. So those who've got it, could you please take another week? And so. Daniel (01:33) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (01:50) I did, cause I was like, yeah, do you know what? That's a good chunk of time off. ⁓ And I did relatively little. I had all these grand plans of how I was going to use my three weeks off. And then when it came down to it, I just needed to not. So I've read, I've played video games. I've done a few bits of DIY and gardening and that sort of stuff. But otherwise like I even managed to completely disengage from Daniel (01:54) You David Gary Wood (02:19) my side project dev for a good week in the middle of that, which is like unheard of for me. So yeah, I properly got in the disconnected zone. but then it's nice to reconnect as well. That's the other thing. It sort of got to like the end of week three. And I was like, I don't want to say I'm bored, but I am excited to get back to like regular life, which was a nice feeling to have. Yes, it's been a good time. ⁓ Daniel (02:51) Fantastic, yeah. And of course I was at Chaos Communication Congress between Christmas and New Years. I'm gonna tell you all about it later. But first I need to introduce the show because hey, welcome to Waiting for a Review, a show about the majestic indie developer lifestyle. Join your scintillating host. David Gary Wood (02:54) Yeah. you did! Yeah that looked crazy! Okay. Daniel (03:15) To hear about a tiny slice of their thrilling lives, I'm Daniel, a very blue honours spren, and I'm here with Dave, who is my windrunner. Join us while waiting for a view. David Gary Wood (03:27) Ayyyy, here we are. Daniel (03:28) I want to try something, specifically with the podcast. I would like to try for us to have like sections that we do like most every week. And just so we have, like, we don't forget anything, like because we have so many awesome things to talk about and like sometimes we forget, we forget the different things. So here's my suggestion. for the sections of our podcast. Of course, this is subject to change. it's easy. just like put it like put in a change request. I will have a look within like four to eight weeks and then like we'll start an approval process, which takes a few months. But yeah, it's easy. It's easy. It's just like a few triplicates and whatever. So first, I would like to start. First section is good thing of the week. David Gary Wood (04:01) So no. Alright, I'm going to raise a ticket about the process, Daniel (04:16) where I would like us to share one thing that in the last or since the last recording, let Bordas joy. Like, might be a tiny thing, might be a book, a video game, anything, anything really. Just so we get up a positive start. David Gary Wood (04:35) think I've got one, I think I've got several actually, thanks to time off, but can I only have one or can I get away with a cheeky two good thing? Daniel (04:47) How about you get one primary thing and then you can sneak in a bonus, a bonus fun thing. David Gary Wood (04:52) Yeah, that works. Okay. So I've got it. Primary thing, one good thing. I built a gaming PC ⁓ and it's brought me joy because I have been reunited with my Steam collection and I added a PS5 controller to the mix and that's actually been really, really fun. Daniel (05:00) Ooh. Hahaha. David Gary Wood (05:17) So it's brought me a lot of joy. played a game called Rez Infinite. And Rez Infinite is a remaster of a game from like the Dreamcast. And it brought me joy because combined with the PlayStation controller, it's got force feedback as well. And I was just so immersed. I finally got everything working at like 11 o'clock at night. And then... Daniel (05:21) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (05:41) half one I was like this is a bit late I should probably be like winding down and going to bed so yeah thanks to not having any other commitments and being off work so yeah that's brought me a lot of joy not just res like loads of other games as well I've been having a play around a few things one of which is completely different I've been playing the 2016 version of doom And of course, yeah. Daniel (06:11) Of course, of course you did play Doom. So you already answered the question, does it play Doom? Or does it run Doom? David Gary Wood (06:16) Yes, yes, it plays all the Dooms. I ended up picking up the Doom anthology because it was like 55 bucks NZ and that's pretty cheap for like Dooms 2016, Doom Eternal, all the OG Dooms and even a bonus N64 version of Doom which I've never played is in there. So yeah, that's me. That's been my primary thing. Daniel (06:21) You David Gary Wood (06:43) because it's on my desk. Daniel (06:43) Before you go into your bonus thing, I'm being reminded, because we said it plays all the dooms. This is not my thing, but I've been playing excessively a game called Death Stranding, and in it, without giving anything away, you play a person who has a disease that is called dooms. David Gary Wood (07:01) Okay, so it's got the dooms. Daniel (07:02) It has the dooms, it also runs all the dooms. But yeah, sorry, go ahead. David Gary Wood (07:07) I'm gonna pass, I'm gonna pass to you. Give me your primary thing and then we'll circle back around for my secondary thing if you don't have a secondary thing. Daniel (07:15) Fair, fair. My good thing this week is all the books by Brandon Sanderson, which I've been slowly working my way through ever since last summer. The guy has a huge output. But because all the books are kind of interconnected, you're always like, I could read one more book where it might be like someone like from like a character from the other story or universe or planet or whatever could show up. So yeah, that's kind of kind of nice. And thanks to public libraries, thanks to public libraries, it is actually kind of easy to get them without having to pay for them even. David Gary Wood (07:48) I've not come across those books before. that's nice. I love that. And yeah, support your local library. They are important and cool. Daniel (08:01) The guy is very Mormon. he has, it seems like he, I don't know. Let's say love interests are not his forte. But everything from medieval fantasy to incredibly intricate magic systems that really are really well thought out to. David Gary Wood (08:14) Ha ha ha ha. Daniel (08:26) very fun space battles is in there and somehow interconnected. yeah, that's just fun. David Gary Wood (08:31) That sounds crazy but great. Can you tell me what his name was again? Cause that has skipped my brain. Daniel (08:36) ⁓ Brandon Sanderson. David Gary Wood (08:38) Okay cool I'll have to have a look. Daniel (08:41) Brando Sendow. Yeah. If you ever want to read it, one thing, one book where you can start it is Mistborn, which is just a good starting point. It's not too long. It's very fun. Has lots of battles that kind of look like Animus style in my head. So yeah, that's my good thing. David Gary Wood (08:56) Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. Bonus good thing. I'm holding up to the camera. You will have to describe it. Daniel (09:09) Mm-hmm. That is tiny and very cute. It is a incredibly tiny camera, an analog camera, looks like a Kodak or something, and it's on a key ring. So it's about the size of a large thumb. but it has a display, so it's a digital camera even. David Gary Wood (09:22) Mm-hmm. That's right. That's right. ⁓ It's teeny tiny and it has a little SD card obviously in there and it takes early 2000s style photos because of the tiny megapixels on the phone, on the camera. It's point and click and it's got a key ring so it can just go on my bag. ⁓ Daniel (09:33) my god, that's awesome. That is awesome. No? Mm-hmm. Is it even megapixels or is it keto pixels? David Gary Wood (10:00) I haven't even dared to ask. Yeah. But it's been a good thing because the process of then loading photos off it on an SD card sort of feels nice and old school in some ways. And yeah, like I say, the photos that come out, they look old school and it makes me feel. old to describe it as old school, but they've got that sort of like early 2000s vibe. And I love it. It's funny to have one extreme to the other. You know, I've got my iPhone 17 Pro and it's got all the cameras and you know, typically takes a good photo just by pointing and clicking. And then I can take a photo with that. And it's like, whoa, that came out bad. Daniel (10:25) Thanks David Gary Wood (10:48) Yeah. Yeah. Daniel (10:49) I love it though. You have to post some pictures online and then... David Gary Wood (10:54) I will do, can, well, I can post you a video Daniel, cause at your behest, I finally posted it. does video. does terrible video. Maybe I can post some of that, but yeah, I made a TikTok, which I'll, I'll link up. Yeah. ⁓ Yes. Because of the homework that you sent me and I will keep on doing my homework and putting Daniel (10:59) It does video. Right! Because of the homework! David Gary Wood (11:21) these videos out to TikTok because it does show people what my app does. Daniel (11:25) I am very hard to fight the urge to call you a good boy right now. David Gary Wood (11:30) I'm just thankful you're in Germany and you cannot pat me on the head when you say that. Daniel (11:34) But yeah, fantastic, because that also leads me to the second section, because as the second section of each episode, I would like to go to chores. David Gary Wood (11:45) Okay. Daniel (11:47) which you already started talking about, your chore, your homework, I don't know. Maybe I should name this chores and homework, I don't know. Was to post at these four videos on TikTok and the stipulation was it doesn't matter what's in them, but it has to have a, I don't know, what would I say? An energetic background music. David Gary Wood (11:51) did. I did. Yep. Yep. Daniel (12:12) Like basically just pick one of the trending TikTok sounds and like make it like so, so that it's like sounds, sounds awesome. And you did at least one. David Gary Wood (12:22) I posted one. it's, is that an F on my homework or is that a good start? Daniel (12:23) I saw it, but yeah, it's a good start. It's a good start and we just have to have to like keep, doing that. Except if you hate it, of course, like if you hate it, then of course it's not for you. But my hope is that, like just by, by, by me encouraging you to have as it, it will like go like the, the, the block will kind of, kind of go away and you will have, you will enjoy posting onto the, TikToks. David Gary Wood (12:33) Okay. Well, you've identified a thing there, Daniel, because I've definitely had a bit of like, what is it? It's not writer's block, is it? It's vloggers block or whatever you want to call it. But like, yeah, it does a bit. No, I, so I was posting quite regularly to these things and then I dropped off somewhere in, in September. I know what happened. I started building VX kits and Daniel (13:02) Vlok is blok. Sounds Swedish. Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (13:21) I was not in that zone. And then, yeah, had a bunch of other life stuff going on sort of late October through to Christmas pretty much. And I just lost the energy for it. So, yeah, but again, that nice reset break, I suddenly found the energy for it. And it was actually the tiny camera that is the link. Daniel (13:36) Yeah. David Gary Wood (13:47) back to earlier if anybody was wondering where I was going with that, is I took some photos on it. I made a little like stop motion animation that works really well as a kind of funky video loop in Govj. And then as I was playing in Govj I was like, hmm, what would Daniel say right now? ⁓ Daniel (14:07) No. David Gary Wood (14:11) And so yeah, inspiration took me. made a post, had some good feedback on it, people liking it and all the rest of it and it felt good. So. Daniel (14:21) Can you hear me? David Gary Wood (14:23) I can hear you, you sound slightly robotic Daniel (14:24) and you're back. Right. I made an oopsie. I opened a separate browser tab and I looked up the video ⁓ and it played sound and apparently it became my sound system. David Gary Wood (14:29) ⁓ mm hmm. Yeah. Daniel (14:38) But I brought the link, so I'm pasting it into the show notes right now. And I also saw it and I realized, yes, I'd seen it just yesterday or the day before. And I also messaged you like, yes, because this is awesome. It's the tiny camera. I didn't recognize it as the tiny camera in that. And it's like recorded in, I want to say very low frame rate, but that fits very well with the aesthetic. And then also it has a driving beat, which is fantastic. So good on you. David Gary Wood (14:38) You're back. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Daniel (15:05) You get an A, but you need to do three more. David Gary Wood (15:08) Okay, three more. And obviously we were aiming for December, but it just wasn't going to happen with like say other stuff going on, guess. So that means I've got at least a couple more weeks. So let's see, let's see what I can do before the end of this month. Daniel (15:14) Yeah. Sure. Sure, but I encourage you very much to have acid. David Gary Wood (15:27) That's fine. I can half ass most things. Daniel (15:31) or even quarter-asset, David Gary Wood (15:33) Yeah, yeah. Daniel (15:33) like quantity over quality, is, at least for me, that's sometimes hard. David Gary Wood (15:37) we'll see what I can do. You should have chores, but I'm not sure that you, I can't remember what chore I gave you, if I gave you a chore. So, and I'm now racking my brain desperately trying to think of something. So, yeah. So you identified something that I needed to... Daniel (15:37) Did I have chores? Did I have chores? I didn't have chores, I think. same z's. Huh. David Gary Wood (16:00) get off my ass with, there's that reference again, and at least half ass it. What's something going on in telemetry deck or life that you are currently not assing at all that you probably should do? Daniel (16:06) You No. like I think currently I'm, I'm asking pretty well, but, I think, I think there's two areas in my life where I'm not asking enough, which is on the one hand, also the tech talking. David Gary Wood (16:24) Okay. Yep. Daniel (16:37) and on the other hand, the, the sports, the gym, the, the exercise, which right now I'm doing, but I will need to keep that up until spring is coming because then I can ride my bike outside again. And I, what I want to do, what I really want to do is start the spring with like above zero. David Gary Wood (16:41) Okay. Mm-hmm. Daniel (17:02) just physical condition. Like I want to be able to hop on my bike in March or April and feel like, yeah, like I'm not starting from zero right now. I'm starting from, I don't know, 30 % or whatever. Because if I do that, then there's a realistic chance that this year I'm going to be able to finally cross the Alps, which is something that I've wanted to do for a while. David Gary Wood (17:05) Mm-hmm. time. Daniel (17:27) And I would really like to get back to that. David Gary Wood (17:29) Hmm. Daniel (17:30) So the chore, I think, or the homework, I think, is just to keep on sitting on an exercise bike at least twice, not let's say three times even a week. David Gary Wood (17:40) So I'm going to combine the chore here for you. And I want to see if this fits because you can always refuse the chore like that. That thing we always have to have a get out there. Like if it's just not going to work, that's fine. But you mentioned doing more of the Daniel (17:45) no! ⁓ If you don't do the chore, you get a drink. David Gary Wood (17:58) Yes, well, both of us just drank water in the last minute. Okay. ⁓ So you mentioned TikToking. Could I set you the chore of you have to make at least one video showing your current exercise routine or a bit of it? Daniel (17:59) We are now in Truth or Dare Land. You Okay, I could try. David Gary Wood (18:19) Okay. Daniel (18:19) Yeah, video with the exercise routine. Yeah. David Gary Wood (18:26) Now, if I was going to be terribly, terribly, like, cruel on this, I might say you should also mention your goal with your exercise. So you've got some accountability for it and you could go, hey, Daniel (18:38) I mean, I'm posting this publicly on the internet right now. David Gary Wood (18:42) I know that, I know that, but your TikTok audience is slightly different to your podcast audience. And I don't know if you would share there, but like, it might be interesting to see if you say, okay, I'm doing this because I want to do this. And you mentioned going over the Alps. That's quite a goal and that's kind of cool. So. Daniel (19:02) It is critical. David Gary Wood (19:03) The stretch goal in the homework is, do you want to tie this together? And is there some motivation in there then for you to stick to it and do it? Daniel (19:08) Yeah. Damn, yeah. David Gary Wood (19:15) Yeah, but if you just make a video and just show a little bit then I'll classify that as homework done. ⁓ So I'm leaving that to you as to how you want to drive it. Daniel (19:22) Fair. fair. Yeah, I wrote it down. wrote it down. I think I like that. Do we also have a chore for our listeners? If not, I have an idea, but I want to hear you first. Okay. Dear listener, look around your desk. It is probably cluttered and or full of crumbs or coffee rings. So your chore, while you listen to the rest of this episode, is clean up a little. David Gary Wood (19:37) I want to hear your idea. Go for it. Daniel (19:52) Like just like walk around, like do the pinball cleaning. Like you pick one thing and you do the thing and then while you're doing that, you are kind of noticing another thing. So you do that thing and then kind of bounce around like a pinball. There's no end goal just like until you like for the next 15 minutes or until the end of the episode, just like clean up your work and living space a little bit so you feel nicer because you are awesome and wonderful and you deserve a wonderful environment. David Gary Wood (20:21) Yep. And if you are driving, keep driving. Do not look around your car and start clearing up. when, but when you have got to your destination, you're sure if in the driving context has to be take that one thing of whatever that has been cluttering your car out of the car with you when you leave the car. So if there's a coffee cup or a wrapper, take it out, man. It's been there for a couple of weeks. Daniel (20:27) Hahaha That's very good, fantastic. You Honk your horn. David Gary Wood (20:50) Yes, you could do that too. Daniel (20:51) Anyway, that is chores. ⁓ Like the sections list has three more things. And I want to tell you about all the three things before we start the next sections, which is I want to talk about just other topics that we're bringing, like stuff that we kind of noted, hey, I want to talk in waiting for review about this. Then I also want to have dedicated sections on how is Lightbeam apps doing and how is telemetry deck doing. ⁓ David Gary Wood (20:54) Yep. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Daniel (21:20) I'm not sure about the order in these things. Should the other topics come first or should the indie dev work come first? David Gary Wood (21:27) I think it's going to depend week on week. but what we can do is you gave listeners a bit of a heads up as to what you were going to talk about earlier. So I think if we get to this stage and we're stayed to the show and we're kind of not sure where it's going next, it's probably a good idea to just sort of reel off what some of the other things going on are. And then we can see where we go. So you mentioned 39 C. That's definitely another thing. Um, Daniel (21:51) spare. Yeah. David Gary Wood (21:57) So if it fits and then. Yeah, we've got the ability to flow between one or the other. I don't want to be too rigid. Like if it makes sense to talk straight away about your stuff. Yeah. I'm also aware that we're going to burn time as well. Like this show has been about setting up this year in the context of where the show is going. So I don't really mind that we've taken too long. And maybe I'll clear up in the edits and kind of tweak some of this for listeners. Daniel (22:06) Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. Then I'm going to tell you about... David Gary Wood (22:25) I think we should also have the ability to sort of say, Hey, there's not a lot going on in light beam or telemetry deck and tweak the show accordingly. yeah. Daniel (22:33) Yeah, totally fine. Like if we have a shorter show because one of the sections doesn't have anything in it, like we could totally say like something like, okay, and today, like right now it's the show about flying rockets. Neither of us has flown any rockets this week, so next section. David Gary Wood (22:50) Mm hmm. Maybe next week. ⁓ Daniel (22:53) which I haven't, so. David Gary Wood (22:55) Tell me all about 39. 39C3, is it? Daniel (22:55) So yeah. Yes, so 39C3 stands for 39th Chaos Communication Congress. The Chaos Communication Congress is a yearly congress held by Germany's largest hacker group or hacker club, the Chaos Computer Club, which has been an institution for the last, I want to say 50-ish years, founded David Gary Wood (23:06) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Daniel (23:23) I don't, don't quote me on that. I don't know. Like maybe look it up when I talk. but yeah, it's, it's, it's old and founded kind of because like these, these hackers in Hamburg, by the way, founded in Hamburg, kind of thought, Hey, these new computer things are probably gonna influence society and going to become a bit political maybe even. So it is kind of a fun mix between politics. David Gary Wood (23:31) Hahaha Mm-hmm. Daniel (23:49) computer science, just general nerd stuff, neurodivergence, and also like old school hacking, like security research. And they have various like smaller events that are all over Germany and Europe, but like every year in the end of December, like just between Christmas and New Year's Eve, they have a four day event that is the largest event. David Gary Wood (23:58) Mm-hmm. Daniel (24:16) that they have, it's kind of like European DEFCON, like DEFCON is, something that you might've heard if you're from the U S it's a large hacker conference in Las Vegas. And it's kind of similar. It's just a bit more left wing. ⁓ Congress is, and a bit more European and a very much way less, businessy as in like these people actively. David Gary Wood (24:29) Hmm? Daniel (24:40) I actively work against monetizing anything, against business sizing anything. Like if you get caught like actually advertising your business in there, like you get like very bad, very weird looks and stuff like that. if someone asked me what I do and I say, hey, I do telemetry, which is cool because X, Y, and Z, that is obviously fine. like if I want, I wouldn't be able to put up a booth or anything. David Gary Wood (25:10) Yep. Daniel (25:11) Whereas you can put up booths with lots of weird art stuff or fun computer stuff. they have like, it's very like also it has large floor spaces. So you can have a booth with, for example, your fun AI experiment where it is just a self-made box with a microphone in it and a... like a thermal printer, like one of those tiny printers that has like a receipt or something. And whenever the thing hears you saying a curse word, it will give you one of a violation tickets. David Gary Wood (25:52) that's wicked. was just looking at that. That's just, it's a, yeah, it looks like a receipt and says, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute. And the violation is, I can't read that properly because there's a letter in there I don't recognize. Daniel (26:07) ⁓ yes, I wrote the, said the word Scheiße, which means shit in German. It will also find you for the word cyber, which is very fun. There's also an exhibit where it, it, there's a, there's a screen and a scanner and the screen tells you like, paint me an image or like draw a picture of something XYZ and then it will scan it in and then it will be like, no, but change this. David Gary Wood (26:16) Hahaha Daniel (26:35) and then we'll scan it in again. It will be like, no, no, it more realistic. And it's kind of like reversing the relationship between image generators and humans, stuff like that. There's also talks, of course, like lots of German or Europe specific talks, also like computer science, science research talks. There's security research talks, of course. David Gary Wood (26:44) that's great. Yeah. Daniel (27:00) Like some of the biggest hacks each year get kind of revealed on that stage. There is parties, there was a choir, there's art installations, there's, I don't know, like it's ADHD paradise. It's fantastic. ⁓ It is absolute chaos, but it's also very like inclusive chaos. Like they take great care to try and work towards inclusivity. David Gary Wood (27:13) Yeah, it's chaos. Daniel (27:24) so that people are welcome there regardless of gender, age, race, sexual orientation, whatever. And it seems like every year this gets better and better. They seem to really work on it. It is visually very pleasing, everything. is just very chaotic, What they also have is live translation. So all the German talks get live translated into English, or the English talks gets live translated into German. And all these talks also get live translated into French and Spanish. And have been for a few years now as well. David Gary Wood (27:53) That's cool. Damn, how does that work? Is that like subtitles or? Daniel (28:03) No, like if you listen online, if you watch the talks online, you could just like select a track, a audio track. And if you're in the venue, you can either use your phone and just like here in your, go to a open a browser, go to a specific page and it will live stream into your headphones. like they started this like 20 years or even longer ago. Like somehow, do you know what a DECT phone is? David Gary Wood (28:08) Okay. Hehe. Daniel (28:28) It is like remember when you had landline phones, but the phones were wireless inside your house. So you had a phone that was plugged into the wall, but it has like a cradle, like a base station. And then you had a phone to carry around. They look like this. I'm holding up a Siemens Giga set AS28H, which it says on the back. That is very old school. And they have like David Gary Wood (28:34) Yes. Okay. Okay. That looks old school actually. That's yeah. Okay. Daniel (28:53) like traditionally at these events, they have a network for these kinds of phones. So if you have one of those phones, which are 20 bucks on like, like anywhere, you can bring it and register it and have a phone number, like a four letter phone number. during the event, I even changed my master and username or my master display name to the, to the phone number. was nine five, five one, which has been traditionally my phone number for these events for a while now. And so you can be reached. reached using those phones, but also you can, if you have such a phone, can also call a specific number and then listen to the audio track, the translated audio track in the, on the phone, on the, like actually push it, push it against your ear. David Gary Wood (29:30) wow. That's so cool. ⁓ Like, yeah, I'm just putting that together. They've had that for like ages. That's the being able to have a live translation is a big accessibility thing for people. That's awesome. And I bet somebody's also thought about things like subtitles for people who are deaf and need them or need them. Yeah. Daniel (29:33) Hahaha Yeah, yeah. Yes. There is, yeah, there's also people who subtitle stuff. Like there's also live subtitles, but there's not live subtitle translation. ⁓ I think not, no. Because the translation team is like a team of volunteers who do the translation and the subtitles team is a team of volunteers who do the subtitles and they don't really interface. There's also a post office. David Gary Wood (30:03) Okay. Yep. No, but once you've got it in one language, could potentially run it through something else for subs to translate that. Daniel (30:28) Yeah, you could also do like voice recognition, I guess. all these are on, like all the talks are publicly available on the website of the event, but they're also mirrored to YouTube. And at least YouTube will then have subtitles because they auto-generate them. But yeah, that might be a fun little exercise trying to actually have subtitles for the different languages as well. David Gary Wood (30:30) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I mean, my wife is deaf and she has hearing aids and everything, yeah, subtitles are a big part of our life. whenever I think about any event, like, how is this being made accessible? And yeah. Daniel (31:09) Yeah, I know that in the last few years, there's been a big push for accessibility for deaf and hard of hearing people, but also blind people. So for example, there's this thing called C3 Tactile, which is an effort to have tactile maps everywhere. So everywhere there's a map of the building and directions to this is here and this is here. Here's the... David Gary Wood (31:18) Mm-hmm. Daniel (31:32) bar that sells alcohol free cocktails and here's the bar that sells champagne for way too cheap by the way. David Gary Wood (31:37) Mm-hmm. You Daniel (31:41) These are kind 3D printed in a way that blind people will be able to feel their way around the map, which is kind David Gary Wood (31:48) That's cool. Daniel, I'm sure that you could share lots and lots about this event, but in the... Daniel (31:50) Yes. Let me share two more things before we move on. Two more things. The primary thing is they also have a post office. Like they produce volunteers. Like everything, everything in there is like absolutely anarchic in the original sense of the word. So self-organized and like volunteers do everything. David Gary Wood (32:01) Two more things is good. yeah, give me your primary thing, then your secondary thing. Daniel (32:22) and one of the things that the volunteers are somehow doing started doing is having a post office. So there's like, literally hundreds of really cool self-designed postcards that you can just like have for a, like, you don't have to give them anything, but you can give them a donation. And then you can, you can address these and send them out directly from the event. So I could send a postcard to someone. They put, put in their postal address and it will get delivered. like it will get rerouted through the normal post office system. But also I can just like put the nickname of someone on there and maybe a few hints where they usually hang out and they will deliver it on the event. David Gary Wood (33:02) That's crazy. That's great. Daniel (33:04) And so you will see things like people on stage where their location is of course known, suddenly getting postcards delivered. David Gary Wood (33:11) That is chaotic in the best way. I love that. And I can imagine there's a fair few pranks you can play on people by postcarding them at specific points as well. Yeah. Daniel (33:15) Yes, it's also very cute. Yeah, probably. Yeah, and final bonus thing, I was again part of the translation group. So if you listen to these, to the videos, or if you watch the videos, then you will sometimes hear my voice in the German or English translation, which is kind of cool because I was reunited with my buddies from the translation group and it was like so much fun, like sitting in the booth with them and live translating. And these people are incredibly smart and really good at translating. And it was just an absolute joy. David Gary Wood (33:56) That's brilliant. That's really, cool. If you come across any particular video with your dulcet times, Daniel, we need to link it up for people. Daniel (33:59) So yeah. Um, I have like 20 tabs open right now with, um, with all the cool videos. And I think that's too much, but let me give you my top three. Uh, uh, wait, this is definitely number one. Um, this is digital independence day is my number three, which is, um, a like famous German, um, comedian, like trying to, uh, or pro proposing that we do a David Gary Wood (34:19) Yeah. Daniel (34:35) called a digital independence day where once one day each month you try to switch from something American away or from something centralized to something decentralized or from something American to something European if you're if you're European or from something European to something New Zealandish maybe if you are from New Zealand. Then number two is the obligatory talk by Corey Doctorow. David Gary Wood (34:51) Mm-hmm. Daniel (34:59) which is called a post-American and shitification resistant internet, which is very fun. And my personal favorite talk of this entire Congress was called the Heartbreak Machine, Nazis in the Echo Chamber, which I didn't know anything about. It's by someone called Martha Root. And Martha Root, think, I have never heard this name before because it is a pseudonym, of course. And the person who held this talk, I'm also gonna link the video. David Gary Wood (34:59) Yes, I saw bits of that. Daniel (35:25) wore a pink Power Rangers suit, so complete body covered with a pink Power Ranger mask and everything. And she discovered that while researching various right-wing dating platforms that are explicitly for white people trying to find white people to date with a very ultra right-wing leaning, let's say. David Gary Wood (35:48) Mm-hmm. Daniel (35:48) ⁓ while researching these and like just like trying to like gain information on these, she found out they had various, security holes. So she detailed the security holes and then deleted their entire database live on stage to thunderous applause. David Gary Wood (36:04) That's quite a thing. Yeah, can. I mean, obviously, for avoiding doxing and remaining pseudonauts who do the I can't even say it. What's the right word there? Pseudonymous. I can understand the the pink power ranger suit, but that must have been quite a thing. I've actually seen bits of these on Mastodon as people were posting about them and I've seen Daniel (36:17) Alright, pseudonyms. Yeah. David Gary Wood (36:29) Cory dot shows thing. He kind of posted a whole load of it as like a huge post on mustard on. so I feel like I've, I've almost been there adjacently through as the information has dripped through the internet. but it's awesome that you were actually there and part of it, Daniel. That's, that's super cool. Yeah. Daniel (36:38) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it was pretty fun. yeah, I had like so much fun just like hanging out. To be fair, I almost only so far, I've only basically only seen the talks that I also translated because there was so much stuff going on in the hallways and in the halls that I just couldn't bring myself to sit in the rooms where they had the lectures. But yeah. David Gary Wood (37:15) So choose your own adventure kind of thing. So I think that's fair enough. Daniel (37:16) yes, it is very much and it's like so large. 16,000 people I think were in attendance. David Gary Wood (37:22) Oof. Well. Daniel (37:23) So yeah, was my congress and I was kinda careful, not as careful probably as I could have been, like reasonably careful with precautions regarding infections and stuff. And I'm happy to say I survived without any infections. So that's also nice. David Gary Wood (37:38) Beautiful shields up. It's always worth it. Daniel (37:42) Yes. David Gary Wood (37:42) Right, where are we in the show? think we've done other topics. Daniel (37:46) Right. We done like this is my other topic. Do you want to do want to like, you have any other topics? David Gary Wood (37:53) Well, I want to bring it home, Daniel, actually. I'm itching to just sort of talk about a bit of what I've been up to with Lightbeam, I guess. Daniel (37:58) Hahaha. Then Dave, please tell me what's been happening with light beam apps. David Gary Wood (38:06) Yeah, so I have definitely been in this mode now for three months at least with building out my own GUI. Talk about biting off more than I can chew, but it's actually, it sounds longer than it is because again, if I think about what was going on in life mode, if you like, I'm not sure that I would have been able to have. done much more than I have, but it's progressing. I guess the bit that might be interesting for people on the show to sort of know is like, I'm not completely vibe coding this thing, but I am definitely using Claude a lot to do a lot of the heavy lifting. So. Daniel (38:47) Is half your code emoji? David Gary Wood (38:50) No, no, no, no, no. I've got a system now that is, I want to say it's working for me, but given that I'm still sorting out a few bits and bobs, then maybe it's not. But the interesting thing about it for me is that because this has been a whole process of figuring out how do I want to build this, how do I want this to work? The iteration with using Claude with researching what I want for a given situation has actually been a learning process as well. So along the way I've kind of learned about a little bit more about how to define my own kind of, it looks like SwiftUI or I'm not trying to clone SwiftUI directly, but there's a lot of what SwiftUI does that I want in the day to day of how I will make apps with this GUI. So I've learned about building a DSL and about how to sort of structure things in terms of like, if you think about the guts of SwiftUI, right, you have primitive types of structs that define your views. And, you know, they're structured in such a way that you set those up and then those are the building blocks that people then use when making things with your DSL. And so a lot of the edges around how that works and then through to things like how do I want to make animation work in a system like this? How do I want state to work? If I want a state-driven UI here, and that's been the biggest change, right? I started off with, it's got to be an immediate mode GUI because they tend to run fast and everybody's doing them in this area. And what I've found as I've been going along is to keep making that work and be performant with the type of things I'm going to be making. I've had to break ways with it being everything executed every frame, of course. And I'm then into caching things when you've rendered them and pulling things out of that cache properly and performantly. So you can see here it's gone down all these different rabbit holes of like there's all these factors to make work, none of which I had a complete view of three months ago. But in the process of iterating out and going, that's not working and this is kind of a bit funky and how do I make this work? I've learned a lot more. So my domain knowledge has been building up of this thing, which is not necessarily exactly how I wanted to be spending my time for Lightbeam. Okay. I want to be making my apps, but it has been super interesting for me personally. So that's sort of what's come out of all of this. And like the go rounds with Claude have been very much a case of like, kind of learning how to get it to do a lot of the analysis for me and also learning like when it is, absolutely wrong about something as well. And you know, ways and means of pulling that out and then being able to redirect it. yeah. ⁓ Daniel (41:49) Yeah I mean, yeah, that's one of the advantages of trying to do things with an LLM, which is you get the thing that is statistically used. Most people do it like this, whatever this is. So that's of course bad, but also good. If you want to see how would most of the internet do this, then it's also a good learning tool, I guess. David Gary Wood (42:09) Mm-hmm. There's there's that. And then there's also the ability to turn it on its head and say, well, okay, what are the other options here? Walk me through the other options for this type of thing. And, you know, actually interrogating it from that sort of point of view has been where I've been able to make more active decisions away from regressing to regressing to the mean as it were of the outcomes that Claude wants to give you. So status wise, I've got I've moved it away from where I started. It's currently kind of grinding through some of the migration of that for me as we speak. Actually, I've got it on my other monitor and it's just sort of executing this big plan for me. And once I'm on the other side of this. And bear in mind, this is changing how the rendering is working so that I get performance improvements. all of the app code that I've got against it doesn't change. It's just changing the library underneath. But once I've got that together, then I should finally be in a position to start dogfooding this and bringing a new app together. So that's what I'm excited about because yeah. sorry, Daniel, I've lost your audio. You were, yes. Daniel (43:30) Yes, because I was just going to ask, how far are you along? What is the current status? David Gary Wood (43:37) of the library itself or where I am with built. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I've got most of the, the like building blocks, if you like, have used defined. So I've got sliders, I've got buttons, I've got, you know, all of those sorts of things. I've even got text input going on now, Daniel, although it's, it's, it's a bit hacky in the, I can press Daniel (43:39) Yes. Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (44:00) press a piece of text to edit and it will bring up a alert because it calls backup out of my system to the host. And then you can enter some new text in that. Most apps you really wouldn't want to do that. You would want proper text editing in the app. But given the sort of things I'm building, it will be changing the name of project. It will be changing the name of a folder or something in your media. it's going to be good enough for now until I want to go more complicated. I've got sheets. I haven't got a navigation, like a navigation view equivalent. but I will go there when I need it. That's the other thing is I'm sort of building stuff as I go. I've got lists and that's been the big thing about making things performance because obviously when you have a lot of things in lists, things get hairy. Daniel (44:30) Mm. you need to reuse list cells. David Gary Wood (44:55) Well, or have a system that caches otherwise, which is kind of what I've gone for. And yeah, then it does have some pagination where it's looking ahead and it's reading what the next things are before you get there to try and make sure that that's that's working well. So the building blocks are kind of there. Animations has been pretty involved to get working and to get it working nicely. especially when you animate things and you want other things to then change size. You know, we're to that in SwiftUI, you can animate something and it will push content up or down and move things around accordingly because the new size affects the other content. So I've been deep in these edges of all of it, but yeah. Soon. think that's my, that's probably a sort of another chore if you like, is that I need to stop building the Lego and I need to start using the Lego. ⁓ So. Daniel (45:52) yeah, especially if you spend too much time building the Lego, then at the end you will find out that 90 % of the stuff you build is not being used and that's kind of bummer. David Gary Wood (46:02) Yeah, yeah, that's another reason that I sort of drew this line last week, which was okay. This is the last big thing that I want to be doing is actually changing how state is diffing and driving the UI instead of having everything executing every frame, because I knew that was going to be critical. I had to go there at some point, I was hoping that I could sort of actually make that like version two after I've got an app together and I'm Daniel (46:19) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (46:29) using it because I was like, you know, yes, it's important to be performant, but actually if I can get away with it and play with an app, it will do what you're saying. It'll inform things better. but no, I'm doing that. And then that's the line is like, okay, we've now got good smooth FPS across most things as it is here. No more features, no more extra bits of DSL or whatever. Daniel (46:38) Yeah. David Gary Wood (46:56) start making an app with what you've got that will then show me what I need at that point so yeah Daniel (47:04) Awesome. David Gary Wood (47:04) And I know what the new app is going to be as well. So that's, that's a good start, but I do need to sit down and start designing it. So, yeah. Daniel (47:13) Are you going to share it on the show or is it going to be a secret? Or are you going to share it later but not today? David Gary Wood (47:22) I will share wireframes or draft designs either next show or the show after depending on where I get to. But I can tell you very quickly, because I do want to pass the mic back and ask you how you're doing and what's going on your side. But yeah, the idea of the app is it will be a audio visualizer. So staying within my audio reactive video kind of app world. Daniel (47:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (47:48) it will version one, I'm going to lift the audio analysis code out of go VJ, plug that in, and then I'm going to have it drive shaders in the app. So yeah. And then that will give, kind of like, a bit of a take on trying to do, if you remember when amps milk drop visuals, Daniel (48:00) Nice. David Gary Wood (48:11) It's going to be somewhere close to that, although slightly, slightly more modern. but yeah, if you look there though, I'm going to try and not go deep on how the audio analysis is going to work. Just use something I've got. That's basic pulled together some nice shaders. That's probably going to be the, the, the biggest bit of the work. And then from there, it's a case of, well, okay, how do I really nail the UI for this thing and make it nice to use for people? Daniel (48:15) Awesome. David Gary Wood (48:39) But when it runs, it will throw that output onto the external screen because that's what I'm all about is making tools that do that. So yeah, that's it. And I think I'm going to call it photon. Daniel (48:44) Mm-hmm. Awesome. Ooh, fits with the light beam theme. It's nice and science fiction-y. It's very light. I like it. I love it. Photon. David Gary Wood (48:54) Hmm. Yep. Yes. Which was the original name for this library before I looked and went, I need something that abbreviates with prefixes better for my views. So yes. Daniel (49:09) Your prefitting pixels would all often pH, so it'd be like... David Gary Wood (49:15) Flissed. Yeah. I'm looking now. I've got VX list on the screen and at least I can sort of look at that and kind of ignore it. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I did that as well. that, yeah. Got to make my facts. Daniel (49:17) list. It's gonna be a f-button. you need to fupdate. David Gary Wood (49:36) Anyway, apps, that was. How is telemetry deck? I'm going to pivot right away from my stuff and ask you how you're doing. Daniel (49:44) How is Telemetry Deck? So Telemetry Deck is in another growth phase, which is awesome, but also somehow it seems like I've hit another one of those, hey, this works awesome and everything is performant until you've reached another order of magnitude and then kind of things are falling apart. And I have... hit another one of those. But at least I have architecture that very much is able to deal with it. So what's happening is a few larger customers are coming on or have come on. And at the same time, finally, like the last stragglers of people who weren't switched to the namespaces feature yet have now switched to the namespace feature. So now... David Gary Wood (50:11) Okay. Daniel (50:36) like my servers are just having a lot of offline or asynchronous processing to do. just like the last few days, I've booted up like four more servers. And these have like 64 cores and like, don't know, 256 gigs of RAM. Like these are beefy machines. Wait, no, there are, like actually I switched, like because I have all Xeons and the new machines are actually AMD Threadripper. So they have like, I don't know, 48. David Gary Wood (50:49) What? Damn it, Daniel. Daniel (51:00) It's not some unusual number. But yeah, it's fun. So yeah, that kind of helps with that. Long-term salivating. David Gary Wood (51:08) You can't tell me about things like this. I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I want one, but I want it on my desk. You know? Daniel (51:16) But that is the thing, if I just click them, if I just buy them on Hetzner's server auction, not a sponsor, Hetzner Kolas, they're like 70 bucks a month, which is very reasonable for this kind of performance. David Gary Wood (51:24) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, okay. That's a lot less than I would have necessarily thought. But cool. things are... Daniel (51:36) And I think I'm going to actually order a few more later today just because I can. David Gary Wood (51:42) May I marder? No. Daniel (51:44) So yeah, other than that, I have decided that January is my Snow Leopard month. Too many people have rightfully complained that things are just like creaking a little bit and getting buggy somehow because so many, like over the last half year or so, I've tried to add so many features that people requested both for individual customers, but also like... if some very large customer comes along and is like, but we really need single sign-on or whatever, then of course, you got to do what you got to do to get this large customer, right? But all these things. then on top of that is like, yeah, I really want to try this new user interface thing, or I want to try updating how we do queries. We did the whole switch to namespaces. And because... David Gary Wood (52:19) Yeah, absolutely. Daniel (52:33) My work is structured in a way where I can very much disappear into a hole for three days or so. At day four, something will happen. I don't know what, but something will happen that will forcefully pull me out of that hole because something that is not related to the current coding problem will need my urgent attention, like something administrative, something salesy. David Gary Wood (52:42) Mm-hmm. Daniel (52:59) maybe even another technical issue. a lot of this code is kind of functional, but very rough around the edges because I kind of get pulled out and either I never merge it or I merge it like where it's like finished, but not nice, right? And so like the complaints are starting to get in. Like people are saying like, this feels unreliable. This feels not polished. And they are kind of right. David Gary Wood (53:23) Mm-hmm. Daniel (53:24) I disagree with someone who called telemetry like abandonware, I just pointed to, where I just on GitHub and I was like, like this very issue that you opened has been open less than eight hours and I'm answering it. ⁓ So I wouldn't go that far. David Gary Wood (53:29) that's literally not true. Ha ha ha! Daniel (53:49) But I very much agree that the technical debt has piled up a little bit. so for January, all I want to do, it won't work, of course, because I already have another project administrative, another administrative project that needs a lot of my time. But for the technical time, I want to spend just answering. fan mail in our support inbox. I want to answer support email and I want to work on all the little bugs and paper cuts tickets that have piled up. So I have centralized all these bugs and paper cuts in a public repository where people can post new ones, but also can see what is happening and also see if something is already a known issue. I have updated our monitoring system. So if anything is actually going on, going wrong with the servers, people will see in the user interface directly without having to go to the status page. like starting last week, I have tried and closed at least one of those issues on the list of bugs and paper cuts per day. And so far I'm actually kind of good. Like actually today I closed seven. David Gary Wood (54:58) Nice. Daniel (54:59) They were very tiny. They were very tiny though, but still. I am not going to be able to finish all of those in January. There's like 600 open tickets, but I'm hoping to just raise the quality a little bit and be a bit, yeah. David Gary Wood (55:07) No. Well, that's understandable, right? In terms of like you say, you've had this, the big growth moments and everything that sort of pulls in one direction. And it's a whole system. So that means that, you know, your time is getting split. And now coming back and swinging around and sort of weed whacking this stuff, you know, and trimming things to where they need to be. I think it's a great use of time. Like I think if this fits with everything else going on for you, then, you know, it's only going to add to the quality to, to what people are getting. I love the approach though, like trying to get, get through at least one of these a day. Seven's a good high school. yeah. So, no good on you, Daniel. I mean, there is only one of you. I know you've got a team, but a lot of this stuff is. Daniel (56:03) Yeah David Gary Wood (56:12) it goes to you, right? So. Daniel (56:14) Right, right. yeah, I love my team. Like for example, I so much love that I don't have to really think about any of the SDKs these days because the SDKs are all taken care of by our friend Konstantin, who is a fantastic developer on many languages and platforms. And so that is just something that I can let slip out of my sight, like without having to worry about it. So that's really awesome. David Gary Wood (56:26) Mm-hmm. He is. Daniel (56:39) But yeah, on the core API stuff, I changed a lot of things like how data is being moved around, like how calculations work and how they are queued and stuff like that. And so of course, that will bring some edge cases. And now it's time to remove those. I also have, I've started doing a thing. taught, so I am, I think, still a bit more skeptical about code LLMs than you are. Maybe, I don't know. David Gary Wood (57:06) I don't know about that because although I've been using it pretty hard out on VXKit I do have a limit. It's not touched my Mango VJ code yet. ⁓ Yeah. Daniel (57:17) Yeah. Okay. Maybe that is, that is like short, short shade on you that you don't deserve. Anyway, one thing that I always wanted, but never been able to achieve is there's a thing called Playwright. And it is a tool to programmatically interact with websites and is used for testing. And I think I told you this last time we talked. I think I told you this last time we talked. Anyway, I, I'm still using the workflow where I taught Cloud Code how to David Gary Wood (57:34) Mm-hmm. I think you may have done, yes. Daniel (57:42) test the development server. And so I can give it just like a test plan. And even if I change the user interface, it will usually find a way to click through everything and verify that everything still works, which helps me a lot like discovering bugs before they go live, which is really cool. David Gary Wood (57:57) That's a great use of it. And that's, that's the thing. Like, yeah, I'm, pretty, I guess for code LLM flexible these days in terms of like, I want to see where they're useful. want to see where they're not. And then when they are useful and that outweighs, you know, another constraint, be it time cost or whatever, then I'm flexible about that. But yeah, there's, there's a limit. Daniel (58:10) Mm-hmm. David Gary Wood (58:22) And then the big constraint that doesn't get talked about enough by sort of the, vibe coding bros is quality, you know, and, ⁓ have I reached a level of quality with VX kit through this method that I'm happy with the answers? No, not yet. do I have a big task of cleaning up or double checking stuff ahead of me? If I want to really go with this? Yeah, probably. Daniel (58:31) Yeah. David Gary Wood (58:49) But yeah, I think in limited short bursts, it can be useful for trimming down small things and still maintaining quality within your base of code. So yeah, I'm sort of, I'm trying not to be too on the fence, but I think everybody ends up really polarized with LLM developments and LLMs in general. like, Yeah, I get it. I kind of am too for some things. Um, you know, I don't want AI driven artwork, for example. It's like, blah, not interested. Um, but yeah. Um, anyway, I don't really know where I'm going with that other than trying to sort of justify my gray area use. Yeah. Daniel (59:22) You Keep your friends close. Keep your friends close. But keep a really good eye on what your LLM is doing. If you stop understanding what it's doing, then it's probably creating bullshit. All right. That is what Telemetry Deck is doing. David Gary Wood (59:40) Yeah. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. That's really cool. And you said about you're having a snow leopard month, Daniel. I kind of wish you had a snow leopard onesie to be wearing while you're in snow leopard mode. Daniel (59:50) Yes. I will do that if a hundred people subscribe to our Patreon. The thing is we don't have a Patreon, so it's gonna take a while. No, I would love that, I would love to do that. I don't have a Snow Leopard onesie. I have an Octopus onesie, which I love. But it's kind of... I could wear that, I guess. David Gary Wood (1:00:10) It's not going to happen. No. Yes. Okay, well, you know, could wear the octopus onesie and then maybe just get some snow leopard ears. And it would reflect the fact that you've got to have, you know, many arms doing lots of things while you're in this mode. So. Daniel (1:00:29) Yeah, that could work. Yeah, yeah. Also the octopus is the official mascot of the half-assed movement because I made myself a piece of artwork. I posted it the other day on Mastodon, I'm going to link it, where I have a comic octopus that says, what if you could just half-ass it? Because I need to remind myself that not everything has to be perfect because sometimes I just like try to perfect something that is very much not needed to be perfect. And then I lose the time. David Gary Wood (1:00:55) Mm-hmm. Daniel (1:01:02) or I don't find the time to work on more important things. So yes. What if I could just have as it. David Gary Wood (1:01:09) I want to say, I think you sent me that directly. ⁓ but, yeah, we'll, we'll link that for people. Daniel (1:01:13) Yes. I'll pull up the link later. David Gary Wood (1:01:18) Well, I think we've got a show. We have definitely got a show, so let's bring it back to where we should be in your regular sections. Daniel (1:01:19) All right, this is our new section show. Yeah. Right, so to recap, have chores. My chores, a video with the exercise routine. Your chores is videos with a driving beat. Our listener's chores is to clean around their desktop. And so with that, all that is left to say is thanks for listening. And please rate us on iTunes and YouTube. Send us emails at contact at waitingforreview.com and join our Discord. The link is in the show note. Also, if you wanna give us feedback, you can also talk to us on David Gary Wood (1:01:41) Mm-hmm. Daniel (1:01:57) various hacker congresses in Hamburg, Germany, like at least five of you did at Chaos Communication Congress, which I loved. Thank you so much for saying hi and saying you're listeners of the show. love that. Dave, where can people find you on the internet? David Gary Wood (1:02:13) You can find me back on the mastodons at mastodon.social at lightbeaminsight. That is the not new now. I've had it for a while, but it's the newer moniker that I've got there. So yeah. And then I am the same username on blue sky as well. And if you want to check out my, I'm not, can't remember my TikTok link. Daniel (1:02:23) Ooh. David Gary Wood (1:02:40) So I'll put that in the show notes and people can see if I'm posting videos there. But I should also be posting the same videos or similar videos to Instagram. And I am light beam apps on Instagram. So it's all my socials there. But how about you, Daniel? Daniel (1:02:51) Fantastic. you could find me at daniel at social dot telemetry.com. yeah, I don't know if you want to add me on PlayStation network, I guess it's, it's, windsmith underscore DE. So become my friend on PlayStation, guess. Watch me put another, another 20 hours into death stranding. David Gary Wood (1:03:04) Hahaha Do you need some more friends to play games with? I don't have a PlayStation otherwise I would Daniel. Daniel (1:03:18) I know you would. Can I ask a question though about your socials? So sometimes, like I've seen this like once or twice, like sometimes when you were very stressed, you post something that says something like, hello, I need to delete all my socials and disconnect for a while. When you say that, does that mean you're deleting the accounts or does it mean you're deleting the apps? David Gary Wood (1:03:33) Yes. Daniel (1:03:40) Because I've been reading it as you're deleting the accounts and I'm like, but when you come back, I need to re-follow you everywhere. that's so inconvenient. David Gary Wood (1:03:44) No. I communicated poorly. wasn't necessarily stressed when I posted that the other week, that was me signing off for Christmas. but, when I have referred to it like that, I've been deleting the apps off my phone. It's been a, yeah. ⁓ and I guess the slight bit of stress there is that awareness of like, I'm not being present in my day to day life. So this is going to get deleted. but, no, I'm not really in the habit of just clearing all of my Daniel (1:03:59) ⁓ Okay. David Gary Wood (1:04:13) social media accounts out to dead these days. Like I might've done that a while ago to just reset things, but I'm actually quite happy with just removing the apps and then coming back to them. So, um, yeah, yeah, no, there's, there's not deletion and new accounts being created right now, Daniel. Um, yeah, that's all right. Um, I should have been clear up at, um, Daniel (1:04:35) Okay, cool. Good to know. Thanks for clearing that out. David Gary Wood (1:04:42) Yeah, yeah, I'm not, I'm not about to completely delete and start again, because honestly, I found like, it doesn't really matter what the social media platform is when I'm not feeling it, I just need to remove the app or ignore it and move on. Like, and then eventually I'll be like, no, I want to go back and check it out. And so yeah, the app comes back and then. catch up with what everybody's been doing which has been really lovely actually so yeah Daniel (1:05:13) Yeah, yeah, I get that. I I do similar things sometimes where I have like these modes, these focus modes, and like I have one that is just like, no, the social media comes through. I just never thought of announcing that on the social media because I'm like, if I'm not posting, I'm not posting. I'll be back, you know? David Gary Wood (1:05:23) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I should probably just not. But I think at that point I'd had a few conversations and I kind of wanted to make sure that it was like obvious I wasn't there. But yeah, and then maybe one day I keep thinking I should use one of my test phones to just be the social media phone and then just not run the apps on my regular phone. But I think that'll get too annoying, to be honest. Daniel (1:05:32) Yeah there. Maybe that's why I need to buy an iPad Mini. I've been trying to convince myself I need one, but they're so outrageously priced for the fact that I'm going to use the thing one hour a week. But I need just, I have the big phone, but I need just one more inch, one and a half maybe. ⁓ David Gary Wood (1:05:54) Yes. you won't be able to do it. There's a show title there. Right. I think we are done, Daniel. So let's we have gone. We've already closed out. So let's say goodbye to everybody and let them go because this has been a long one. All right. Take care, Bye. Daniel (1:06:15) Yeah. Yes. Have a great day, Dave. It's been fun though. See ya. Bye.