Hvala, Ne The EuroWhat? Podcast The EuroWhat? Podcast Mike 0:02 you can't complain when people vote for their friends and neighbors. Hello, and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 298, dropping on April 14th, 2026. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Mike McComb, and I'm here with my co-host, Be Smith. Hey, Ben. Ben 0:29 Hey, Mike. Mike 0:30 In this episode, we'll be talking about Slovenia at Eurovision. what's your impression of Slovenia at Eurovision? Ben 0:40 Like, within the contest, it's just, like, they are, like, one of the sort of smaller nations that generally shows up is, like, they're a very good participant. I feel like they can kind of be all over the place. It's, like, they have, they've sent some stuff I've really enjoyed. Uh, there's the one entry whose name I'm forgetting, when it's relevant, uh, where it's just, like, the two of them just doing, like, a very, the XX style song. Mike 1:03 Oh, Sebi from Ben 1:05 Sebi, Mike 1:05 2019. Ben 1:06 there we go. Yeah. like, really liked what Sebi was doing. Uh, they sent Joker out, and just sort of that whole saga was very fun, and was, like, a really good strategy of, like, you know, these are, this is the biggest band in our country right now. they're trying stuff, and they're doing stuff that I think a lot of nations should be doing, and I have no clue if it's working for them or not. Mike 1:35 I think that's kind of where I'm at as well. Like, my first exposure to Slovenia was the 2010 contest, where they were doing Nurodnozbovnyrok, uh, where they're just wearing, Ben 1:48 Yeah. Mike 1:48 yeah, where it's just, like, these very, like, Slovenian costumes and very Donnie and Marie. I thought, what? Oh, this, this is not 2010. What is going on here? yeah, since then, I think they've been fine. Oh, like, they're, they're actually one of the countries like, I look forward to. Like, I really like their Emma process. Um, and yeah, I, I find that their songs tend to be, like, really radio friendly and, like, usually on trend or at least, like, not out of step with what's happening at Eurovision. as I was going through and, like, digging, up information about Slovenia, I was kind of thrown by their history on the scoreboard and just like, oh, other countries that have this kind of record I would describe as struggling. And I never got that impression from Slovenia, which, I think kind of peppered how I was approaching them because I was really struggling with figuring out how to talk about Slovenia because, like,as you've mentioned, they are a little all over the place and, but not really making a big impact at any point. but they are one of the countries that are boycotting the contest this year. I'll send you over a quote from, TV Slovenia director, uh, Ksenia Horvat, uh, like, why Slovenia is boycotting the contest this year. Ben 3:06 All right. TV Slovenia was the initiator of the debate at the EBU level about the controversy surrounding Israel's participation in the Eurovision Song Contest. We believe that the EBU could have shown a principled and ethical stance here, and we regret that the association in which we participate was not capable of doing so. For more than a year, we have been warning that we cannot stand on the same stage with a representative of a country that caused the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. We point out that Gaza is the only territory in the world where the work of foreign journalists is not possible and where people are still dying in unbearable humanitarian and security conditions. Mike 3:39 I think that quote is a principled stance to take, but looking through Slovenia's history at Eurovision, I kind of get the sense that there may have been a breaking point in terms of how changes at the contest leave Slovenia unintentionally disadvantaged in the competition. so let's go through Slovenia's history at Eurovision. I will try to keep it chunky so that we're not doing a year by year, of their 30 participations in the contest, but I think telling their story as a chronology might point to how we got to where we are today with Slovenia boycotting the contest. Like this one issue, like, yeah, it's a big issue, but a lot of the underlying issues I think may have come to a head because I don't know. I'm thinking back to 2024 like Slovenia is out of the gate being like, we demand answers. And my response to that was just sort of like, oh, I, I didn't realize Slovenia was so mad. Ben 4:35 I expected this from, from some nations, but not you, Mike 4:39 not ------ Slovenia and the Relegation Era ------ 4:40 Ben 4:40 you leading the charge. Mike 4:41 Exactly. So, let's go back to the beginning. so Slovenia breaks away from Yugoslavia in 1991, and they're pretty much first in line when the 1993 contest opens up to all these new countries that have formed in the last few years. in 1993, there were 14 countries that had indicated that they were maybe possibly considering floating the idea of perhaps, uh, requesting more information about joining the contest. Eurovision was already feeling kind of overstuffed at this point. There were 23 countries that competed in 1992. Yugoslavia wouldn't be coming back since Yugoslavia was not really a thing at this point. So that frees up one slot, but out of the 14 maybes, only seven actually followed through with submitting the application. Uh, Eurovision was not going to expand to 29 entries because they needed the show to be at most three hours, which like looking back on that today, it's like, oh, three hours. That's so quaint. Uh, the contest did expand to 25 entries, which meant that Three of the seven new countries would get to compete in 1993. the other four plus any other new countries that wanted to, uh, join, they would get to compete in 1994. this introduced relegation to the Eurovision process, so countries that were at the bottom of the scoreboard would get benched for a year so that other countries would have a chance to compete. there was still the issue, uh, In 1993, uh, in 1993 of determining which three of the seven would get to go to Mill Street, Ireland, where that contest was being held. Slovenia offered to host a qualifying round called Qualificatia za Mill Street, uh, where the seven countries that wanted to compete would perform their songs. The jury would award points in Eurovision style and the top three songs would get to go to Ireland. Uh, since there were only seven countries, everybody got points. So no one was shamed with a nil point. Um, in kind of a weird instance of the scoring, each country managed to get a 12 from one of the other countries. So, like, nobody was left out, uh, so that was nice. Slovenia was the overall winner, um, and Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, uh, and Croatia completed the podium. that great result for Slovenia did not carry over to the main show. Bosnia and Croatia, they did fine. They finished mid-table, but Slovenia finished in 22nd place, and they were instantly relegated. So, thanks for hosting this thing. Uh, we'll see you in a couple of years, maybe? So. Ben 7:18 Yeah, thanks for doing all of the organizational logistics, Slovenia. Enjoy your year off! Mike 7:24 unfortunately for us, that means no clip from the 1994 contest. Ben 7:27 Oh, no! What will I Mike 7:29 Yeah. Ben 7:29 do? Mike 7:31 Uh, but, uh, Slovenia does return in 1995. Uh, with the song, uh, Prisluni Me, by Daria Svair. Ben 7:54 Oh, just, like, the backing of, like, the Eurovision 1995 stage, for lack of better terms, just sort of looks like a VHS tape from the mid-90s about this new, exciting thing called the information superhighway, or the internet. Uh, and then just, like, the most adult contemporary ballad to ever adult contemporary ballad starts. Mike 8:13 Yes, yes. I, like, Slovenia definitely filling the brief for, uh, 1995 Eurovision Song Contest. this song does rather well. It finishes in seventh place. this kind of sets Slovenia up, for the next couple of years. Uh, Slovenia is just above the cut line in the 1996 pre-qualifier mixtape selection round. but overall, they finished 21st out of 23 countries in the main contest. they would have been relegated under the old system where they're knocking out the, uh, the countries at the bottom of the scoreboard. But for 1997, they introduced the average points relegation system. Uh, so that seventh place finish was a real boon. Like, perfect timing for that. Slovenia got tenth place in 1997, uh, so that also kinda helped keep their score in a healthy enough range, uh, which got them through 1998 and 1999, but like, that 1996 low standing, and they also didn't do so great in 1998. it kept dragging down their average. But, overall, they were staying above the cut line. under this system, they should have been in the 2000 contest. But, 2000 was the year that the Big Four auto-qualifier rule was introduced, and Slovenia was right at the cut line with an average score of 45.4. France was just below the cut line at 44.8. And guess who got to go to Sweden? So, if you're keeping score, Slovenia was on the losing end of qualification system changes two out of three times Uh, they come back in 2001, after being relegated in 2000, uh, with the song, Energy, by Noosa Dorenda, Ben 10:12 if we had, like, a version of this song where just sort of, like, after every line the video paused for three seconds to give you, like, an A, B, C, D, what is the next line going to end in? Just, like, could nail it. Mike 10:23 Yeah, yeah. Again, Slovenia fulfilling the brief, and, uh, yeah,like , that feels very 2001, which, like, kind of goes back to what I was saying, where it's like, oh, no, like, Slovenia is on trend. And, yeah, I'm still kind of baffled by what she's wearing, like, this sort of, like, yellow, black, kind of Charlie Brown reminiscent. Yay! It's, uh, yeah, it is a look that is just, like, nope, that is very 2001, and you could not get away with Ben 10:51 Mm-hmm. Mike 10:51 that. Ben 10:52 Well, and then just, like, the identical piano players on either side of her, one in pink, one in blue. It's 2001. Mike 10:58 Yeah, yeah. So, um, but just like their last comeback, uh, from being relegated, this finished seventh, uh, which is still Slovenia's highest placement to date. at this point, Eurovision gets rid of the average points relegation system, and they just go back to booting the folks with the lowest score on the scoreboard. Uh, Slovenia is still mid-table in 2002, they are toward the bottom in 2003. But, 2004, we're now moving into the semi-final era. So, Slovenia manages to avoid ------ One Semi to Rule Them All ------ 11:32 Mike 11:32 relegation a third time. However... the initial semi-final era is kind of wild. in you have 22 countries competing for 10 slots. In a grand final, that is going to have 24 entries. So you have a semi-final that is the same size as the grand final. Uh, by 2007, you have a single semi-final of 28 countries to go to a final with only 24 entries. So, yeah. Um, and it's also worth noting that the countries that are getting, like, relegated to the semi-finals are generally from, like, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe. Mainly the countries that have joined the contest from 1993 onward. if you don't qualify from the semi-finals, that means you're automatically in the semi-finals the following year. so it's kind of starting to create a bit of an underclass at the contest. this problem came to a head in 2007, when all of the qualifiers from the semi-final, uh, except for Turkey, were countries that debuted in 1993 or later. this was also the year that Serbia and Montenegro competed as separate countries, which meant that there were five former Yugoslav republics in the semi-final. Plus, Bosnia and Herzegovina were waiting in the grand final to give out points to, whichever of the FYRs got through. teamwork makes the dream work. And Slovenia qualifies with Alenka Gotar and Svet Zee Yuga. we saw the lighting effect, we got that, Ben 13:19 yeah, Mike 13:19 we, Ben 13:19 we saw the lighting effect, like, she, like, she looks at her hand, I'm like, is she looking, like, did she write the lyrics for the second verse on her hand? And then the lights are like, oh, it's, it's like a fun thing, okay. Mike 13:30 Yeah, yeah, it's, it's very mystical, but, uh. Ben 13:33 But again, like, on trend, Mike 13:35 like, Ben 13:35 this feels, this feels correctly 2007. Mike 13:37 Yeah, yeah, and, like, I, I can think of at least two other entries from that era of the contest that are of that style of song that are really well regarded, so, like, even though Slovenia had a lot of support from their former Yugoslav friends, they also got points from a lot of other countries, too, like, this was, this was a qualification, good song got through, that's how the contest is supposed to work, so. Ben 14:04 Mm-hmm. Mike 14:05 is it block voting? Yes, but if you're doing televote only, you can't complain when people vote for their friends and neighbors. Actually, you can't complain. Uh, yeah. Yeah, let me send you this quote, and I would like for you to guess who said it. Ben 14:26 All right. we've already seen in 2007 that it's not the quality of the song, but the country of origin that determines the decision. Hmm, who, who would, like, I'm just sort of thinking about what we have been discussing recently. I'm going to guess that's not one of the former Yugoslav republics. Like, they're, they're, like, all on board with. Mike 14:46 Oh, yeah, yeah, no, they are benefiting from this, uh. Ben 14:48 This situation is very much working for them, so it's got to be, like, one of the, one of, like, the Western Europe people. let's, let's just add insult to injury or someone where, like, this doesn't bother them at all. Uh, let's just say that's Germany. Is it Germany? Mike 15:02 Oh, you're very close. Uh, this is Austria. Uh, Ben 15:05 Oh. Mike 15:06 yeah. And they boycotted in 2008, and this was their justification for, for that happening. It's like, hmm, I, I, I, that sounds like something that rhymes sometimes in 2026, but I ------ Semi Finals go to Pot ------ 15:17 Mike 15:17 can't quite put my finger on it. But, uh, yes. So you have this issue of, like, the so-called block voting, wh, like, mathematically, like, you're putting everybody from, like, the same geography, like, in the semifinal year after year because. Ben 15:36 Yeah. Mike 15:36 ...class system that you've set up. Uh, but there was also just the general issue of the semifinal becoming unwieldy. Like, even though Austria wasn't going to be there in 2008, like, San Marino was going to be there. Uh, Azerbaijan was going to be there. It was just like, okay, we can't have a semifinal of 30 countries. That is insane. Ben 15:56 This is becoming untenable. Mike 15:58 Exactly. Yes. So, uh, the decision was made to expand to two semifinals. and yeah, just really kind of rejiggering the format of the contest. So it's not going to be, like, the top 10 that aren't, uh, auto-qualifying countries get through, and then there'll be 10 more in the semifinal, and then the moon in Aries, or whatever. Uh, it's, uh, just going to be, like, the host country, the big four, and then, uh, 20 coming out of the semifinals. It's like, great. in the process of figuring out, uh, like, how to assign the semifinals, uh, Eurovision's data processor, Die Game, uh, conducted research on the voting patterns of the participants, which was used to set up the allocation pots, that would be used to draw which semifinal each country would assigned to. the pots are, in my, I don't know if controversial is the right word, but they don't sit right with me after looking into them, uh, this week. Just because, like, each pot pretty geographically distinct. Like, pot one, it's, like, the former Yugoslav Republic, uh, or the Yugoslav Peninsula. That's a better way of phrasing it, because Albania's in that pot, too. That was not a former Yugoslav Republic, but it's in the same general area as, uh, all the other FYRs. Uh, then you have, like, the Nordics are in a pot. Uh, the, like, Benelux region tends to be in the same pot. Uh, and then you usually have, like, one pot where it's just, like, San Marino, Malta, Portugal. Like, everybody's just, like, we don't know where to put you. Ben 17:36 It's like, oh, it's the little birthday boys. Mike 17:37 Yes, yes. Um, so it's just, like, the wild card pot. That might be the best way to describe it. the purpose of the pot is to make sure that countries that have a history of voting for each other will get split up in some way. Like, theoretically, like, you have six in one pot. Three are going to be in one semifinal. Three will be in the other semifinal. That'll break up the points a little bit. this kind of coincides with a time that Slovenia is maybe out of step with Eurovision trends, like going back to their 2010 entry. Like, it's just, they're not qualifying in this period, is my overall point.in 2011, they send the song, No One, by Maya Keok. Ben 18:38 the little hand motion at the end from, from her and the backing singers. Mike 18:41 Yeah, yeah, it's a really nice touch. Ben 18:43 but also, like, have you seen the clip of Hilary Duff from, on, like, the Today Show that's, li, going around right Mike 18:48 No. Ben 18:48 now? Okay, I'm going to send that to you after this, because, like, the choreo is very that. Mike 18:52 Okay. Ben 18:56 before I clicked this one, like, there was, like, a little, like, an inkling in the back of my brain of, like, I think it's this one. Because, like, somehow that chorus has stuck with me. Like, the structure, again, very on trend. Mike 19:04 Mm-hmm. Ben 19:04 I was, like, as this was starting, and, like, we had all the little melismas, I was like, okay, where are we in music reality shows? Has the voice started? Mike 19:13 Right about that same time. So, yeah, Ben 19:15 Yep. Mike 19:15 like, Moose Like Jagger was probably, uh, hitting the charts at that point, so. Ben 19:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but, yeah, it's just, like, this one, again, this one holds up. Mike 19:24 Yeah, it, it's very radio-friendly. She's- Ben 19:26 Mm-hmm. Mike 19:27 He sounds great, Ben 19:28 She Mike 19:28 I think. Ben 19:29 sounds great. Mike 19:29 Yeah, and, but, like, as you mentioned, like, the choreography, uh, a little basic, I, I think you Ben 19:37 Yeah, Mike 19:37 might. Ben 19:38 just sort of, like, the two, like, like, because, like, it's her on stage for most of the first verse, and then you have, like, these two separate, like, emerging battalions of two backing singers just sort of approaching the Mike 19:48 Yes, Ben 19:48 stage. Mike 19:48 yeah. Yeah, like a pincer attack on her, Ben 19:52 Just, Mike 19:52 and then. Ben 19:53 like, backup has been deployed. Mike 19:55 this song did incredibly well in the semifinal. It finished third, uh, in the semifinal, and it won the semifinal jury. Now, this is when points were still being combined, like, jury and televote, into, like, one amalgamation of the score. But, in, in the individual breakdowns, like, this won the jury. Uh, it ended up finishing 13th in the grand final, which, again, that's pretty good for Slovenia. Um, it was fourth with the jury overall, uh, but it was only 22nd in the televote, which is surprising given, like, it was so on trend, but just really minimal staging, and I, I think this may be where Slovenia struggles in the contest, because, like, in, in all of the clips that I've shown you so far, it's, it's not quite park and bark. Like, like, there is movement in the performances, but there aren't big props that aren't, like, just somebody sitting at a piano. there isn't, like, elaborate choreography. There's graphics happening, uh, on the, LED screens, but it's, it's nothing mind-blowing. Ben 20:59 is, well, and, like, the last two clips we've watched, uh, the, the major staging movement seems to have been, well, the main singer is there, and then, surprise, backing singers. Mike 21:08 right, right, I think that may be, like, caus part of Slovenia's struggle, where it's just, like, yes, it's a good song, the juries appreciate it, but it's going to be tough to be memorable like, especially if there's going to be, like, 28 songs in the semifinal. Although, maybe that's not the best example, since that one did qualify, but, Ben 21:29 Mm-hmm. Mike 21:29 uh, yeah, it's, it's just kind of making things, it's not making it sticky enough, but, like, the song, like, as even you were mentioning, it's like, oh, wait, is it this one? And, Ben 21:39 Mm-hmm. Mike 21:39 like, just Ben 21:39 Right, Mike 21:39 kind of slowly, coming back to front of mind. like 2011, okay, qualified, first time in a couple of years, great. Um, in 2012, that should have been Slovenia's year, or it could have been a breakout year for them, because Slovenia was moved out of pot one. They were no longer with all of the other former Yugoslav republics, so there was a good chance that they could be, like, matched up with a lot of friends, when the semifinal allocation draw came in. And that did end up working out. Like, there were four former Yugoslav republics in the same semifinal as Slovenia. Uh, the song, uh, one of the writers was on the team that wrote Molitva, so it's just like, okay, songwriter pedigree, advantageous voting situation, like, this is great. not much happened with that performance, and it finished almost last, uh, in the semifinal. So, like, it had the opportunity, but could not, could not seize it, and then 2013, this was the first time that Slovenia decided to do an internal selection. Uh, and this was at the height of dubstep, so it was a very wub wub wub wub wub wub type. Type entry, uh, Hannah's, uh, straight into love, uh, the—yeah. Ben 22:56 Yeah, oh, yeah, no, just immediately, just aggressively dubstep. Mike 23:01 Yeah, yeah, and, like, I still think it's fine. Like, it was very 2013, so, Ben 23:07 Yes. Mike 23:07 again— On trend, but, um, yeah, not, not what anybody wanted. So, yeah, last in the semifinal, I believe it was last, like, overall, uh, like, if you combine the two semifinals. and, uh, Ben 23:27 Mm-hmm. Mike 23:29 in the preparation for this episode, I was curious, what Slovenia's scoring situation is. And I went through and cataloged every single point that Slovenia has received from every country since 1993, and, Ben 23:45 Just Mike 23:46 um— Ben 23:46 like, oh, we made a spreadsheet on this podcast? Mike 23:48 Oh, yeah. Ben 23:48 Homebreaking. Mike 23:49 Yeah. Like, I thought this was going to be completely a spreadsheet episode, but it's really just more for this one. Right, but, um, yeah, like, S,Bosnia-Herzegovina , best of friends. Like, any opportunity that, uh, BH had to give Slovenia points, like, they—they would. Croatia as well. yeah, the other, uh, FYRs, like, they generally, They are giving points to each other. Um, but Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, like, those two were reliable. that's starting to become a problem in the mid-teens, because, like, in 2013, Bosnia and Herzegovina are sitting out. Um, none of the FYRs qualified. Like, that is, uh, the first time in a very long time that there was no representation from the FYRs. And that was something that happened last year as well, and it's, like, pretty notable. It's like, oh, wow, this entire block is absent from the final. like, it's even dicier because, uh, Serbia's sitting out. Croatia's sitting out. Bosnia is still sitting out due to the budget issues. the semifinal draw, like, Slovenia did not have any help. They had to get through on their own merits, uh, which they did. Uh, but, again, like, the song does well enough in the semifinal. The semifinals are much smaller affairs. Like, it's, it's not even at the peak, uh, that they were in,like , 2011, 2012, where there's, like, 20 countries competing in the semifinal. It's now getting down to, like, 14, 15 countries, because it's, it's, like, much lower participation, like, where we're at today. but then it gets to the final, and it just gets completely lost. Um, so, finishing towards the bottom of, of the, uh, scoreboard. 2015, mean, Serbia's back, but, again, it, it's still kind of getting through Without the help from their most reliable friends, just ------ Slovenia vs. the Televote ------ 25:40 Mike 25:40 because of, like, how assignments shook out. in 2016, that's when we start getting some, like, really useful data in terms of, like, the jury and televote split. while Slovenia is still doing well with the jury, like, they're on trend and the jury is looking for, like, radio-friendly content, when you're looking at the televote, Slovenia's out. It's just not there. And I, I think it really does come down to the lack of stickiness in their staging. even though I am a Slovenia fan and I really like the songs that they have, I struggle to remember what the actual performances are because there's not really much happening that, like, it's, again, one step above Park and Barker. but even though they're not fully connecting in the televote, they're getting enough points to get through to the finals. So, uh, they're qualifying in 2018. Th qualify again in 2019 with Sebi. like, in the 2020s, it's still kind of messy. Like, just, just, like, not fully connecting. Uh, and this is also an era where Slovenia's, experimenting with more internal selections rather than having the full Emma process. Uh, I mean, 2021 is a bit of an asterisk. Like, they had, uh, Ann Solutions come back, uh, because she won in 2020. And it's like, well, yeah, the contest didn't happen for reasons. Ben 27:06 back. Mike 27:06 Let's bring you Ben 27:07 Yeah. Mike 27:08 Uh, with a song that is sung well, not particularly sticky.just really in that Eurovision adult contemporary valley. Joker out. Also, an internal selection, a very smart internal selection. they do well in the semifinal. It's fifth in the semifinal and gets points from the rest of the world vote, uh, wh is pretty tricky since Slovenia doesn't have, like, a huge diaspora population to, uh, rely on. but then, uh, but then they get to the final toward the bottom of the scoreboard again. Uh, same with, uh, Veronica from Raven in 2024. and then you see that the televote is being overleveraged by, uh, some of the participants. And, uh, uh, like, Slovenia is just like, okay, how are we supposed to compete with that? looking at the stats and just seeing, like, what countries, like, had been giving points to Slovenia, like, going back to my spreadsheet, some of, their top 10 point benefactors. They include Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Romania, Russia. What do all of these countries have in common? Ben 28:17 What do you, yeah. Yeah, just, like, uh, I'll take, uh, five people who have never been to a dinner party at my house and also are no longer in the Mike 28:25 Right, Ben 28:25 contest. Mike 28:26 right. I mean, like, Montenegro is, like, in and out. Romania is in and out. Uh, and, a number of them are budgetish. Some of them are, like, political issues, which is, like, a Eurovision problem to solve, not Slovenia's problem to solve. some of them are, like, political issues. Like, Russia, understandable why they were kicked out of the contest. But, uh, when you're seeing a country that is getting beneficial treatment, committing some of the acts that are similar to what Russia had been doing, and, the sort of voting mechanisms that the switch, uh, in semifinal format was, uh, trying to curtail, you can kind of see how Slovenia might be a little annoyed and be like, hey, wait a minute. Why are you bending over backwards to support these systems that you were trying to eliminate because we qualified in 2007? So, um, and, like, that may be me putting words into people's mouths, the data is there, and it's just like, Ben 29:23 The data, Mike 29:23 hmm. Ben 29:23 the data is there, and, like, we have this statement from their head of TB, but they were also one of the ones leading the charge on, hey, the current voting system is disadvantaging, not just us, but other, these other small Mike 29:35 Mm-hmm. Ben 29:35 nations. Uh, what can we do about that? What can we change here about these, about these rules? Mike 29:40 Yeah, yeah. So, they're bringing back the juries for the semifinals, and I could see how... That is helpful for a country like Slovenia, but it's not actually solving the problem because there's still this televote component where, like, you can get in purely on televote, you can get in purely on jury, but if you're middling in both, um, or, like, in Croatia's case, you could finish in top 10 in both and still not qualify. So, there are some larger issues that t will be tough to address just because, like, how, how do you solve for it? And what I would like to see, just to kind of throw some, like, gasoline on the fire, is, uh, maybe reevaluate how the pots are determined for the semifinal allocation. Like, you need to have some sort of mechanism to, to break up the countries, because I, I think there is, like, it's not a fairness issue, but I think it's, like, an exposure issue I don't know, like, make people in the UK watch a Slovenian perform. And it's, like, it's, Ben 30:49 like, exactly, it's, like, just kind of looking at the history is, like, you used to have to make that promotional video so that it would be shown in the other nations. That's why we have so many of these, these panel shows that still happen in some of the nations, like 12 Stig. Mike 31:01 Mm-hmm. Ben 31:02 Uh, in Iceland, where, like, the point of that is, no, we're literally, like, yes, we have this jury, uh, on stage, uh, just sort of chatting about what they saw, but it's also that you, the viewer at home, see the Slovenian entry for Eurovision this year. Mike 31:15 I would just like to get a better understanding of the math that's used to determine, how the pots are set up. Becaus, like, the description that I keep reading is, like, oh, it's based on voting patterns and geography. So, like, you're friends and neighbors, pretty much. But, but I have to wonder if other vectors are considered, like, not just, like, points you're giving out, but what, what countries are giving you points? And, uh, like, how does that shake things up? Or, maybe bringing in some component of your average performance from the last five years to, like, maybe split up the powerhouses, uh, in the competition. Because, like, looking at the old system, uh, of how they determined who had to go into the semifinals, like, Sweden only had to do that once. Ukraine had to do it a couple of times. Like, first time they qualified, then they won that contest. And then, uh, yeah, they a quintessential, like, home, host country entry. So, of course, they were at the bottom of the scoreboard and had to do the semifinal again. But, like, they cleared that hurdle. But those, like, just thinking of those countries, just be like, well, yeah, like, maybe make it a little bit more equitable of, like, who has to qualify. Um, and it may also come down to, like, maybe get rid of the auto-qualifier distinction. I have a feeling that's going to be a very, like. Ben 32:34 Yeah, like, that one, that one,like , we all, like, we all know that they, like,what if you guys tried this? What if, what if these, what if these five had to fight? Mike 32:42 Yeah, yeah.I mean, having skin in the game, I think, like, that, that is always going to be, uh, my, my dream. I don't think it's, like, I, I think that ship has sailed, unfortunately. But, Ben 32:52 Yeah. Mike 32:53 but, like, just thinking back to Slovenia, like, getting relegated in 2000 because France just happened to have ten times the size of population, therefore ten times the financial contribution. Like, it, it's just, it's a difference between, like, fairness and equity and all, Ben 33:09 Mm-hmm. Mike 33:09 all of that good stuff. So, it'll be interesting to see what brings Slovenia back to the contest I don't think it's just the Israel issue. that is a legitimate issue, uh, as we see with the other countries that we're covering in this boycott series. But I think these structural issues, especially as countries continue to kind of peel off from the contest, like, just looking at the, the map of which countries are participating right now, like, it's getting, there's a lot less happening in the east. So, Ben 33:43 it was getting real sweaty in December. Mike 33:45 Mm-hmm. Ben 33:45 Uh, just look, looking at the map and going, okay, but, like, do we need the semifinals this year? Mike 33:49 Right, Ben 33:50 like, Slovenia,to that effect, was sort of, like, and as long as we're discussing this. Mike 33:54 Yeah. Ben 33:55 Can we also talk about these things that are really affecting us and other smaller nations? So, yeah, just, like, the fact that I agree with you. I think it'll be interesting to see what brings them back, because I don't think it's just this big issue that's sort of overshadowing this year's contest. Mike 34:10 and, like, I would really like Slovenia back in the contest because, again, like, they're on trend. They, they send quality stuff that, like, juries respond to. And I would just like to see them grow in the staging department. And, and I think last year's entry was, an attempt at that. Uh, it just happened to be with a song that was just far too schmaltzy to, to, to connect with audiences. But, the upside down effect, like, goofy as it kind of was, it was, like, ambitious Ben 34:43 It was something. yeah, because, like, I think they have been trying, because, like, before that we had what they were trying to do with Veronica, which was a little bit artier. Mike 34:50 Mm-hmm. Ben 34:50 Than, than what they had been doing. Uh, Joker out. Uh, hello, we have sent six incredibly telegenic young men. Mike 34:56 Yes. Ben 34:57 Uh, not a lot. They didn't need to do a lot there. Mike 34:59 Right, right. Um, but at the same time, it's, like, it's a rock band, like, that's already going to be difficult to stage. And, Ben 35:06 Yeah. Mike 35:07 uh, yeah. And we saw that on the scoreboard. So, I appreciate what Slovenia does in the And I don't think they feel like they are receiving that appreciation. And, yeah, I, I hope, uh, if and when they do come back, that, uh, people pay attention to them. Because they're, they're doing good work. And interesting work. And, uh, yeah, I, I want to see them rewarded for that. that's going to do it for this episode of the Euro What. Thanks for listening. The Euro What podcast is hosted by Mike McComb, that's me, and Ben Smith. Ben 35:45 That's me. You can find our full archive of episodes on our website at eurowhat.com. For our free newsletter and more info about the Euro What AV Club bonus podcast, check us out at patreon.com slash eurowhat. Mike 35:57 Next time on the Euro What, we're going Dutch as Ben takes us on a tour of the Netherlands.