The Dream Team The EuroWhat? Podcast The EuroWhat? Podcast Mike 0:17 Hello, and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 310, dropping on October 6th, 2026. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest.I'm Mike McComb, and I'm here with my co-host, Ben Smith. Hey, Ben. Ben 0:33 Hey, Mike. Mike 0:35 In this episode, we'll be talking about the Dream Team. what do you know about the Dream Team? Ben 0:42 Okay, so, I mean, I had seen this one on our schedule, so I was, I have been trying to prep for this question. Mike 0:49 Hmm. Ben 0:50 they are one of the teams of producers of acts that sort of have shown up, like, roughly like the last 20 years, I would say. I primarily think of Philip Kirkara, but there's, like, it's a team. There is, there is not an I in team, even though Philip Kirkara is a very big I. Mike 1:07 We'll Ben 1:07 Um. Mike 1:07 get to that. Uh, Ben 1:11 but no, Within fan media, we talk about, oh, this act is being produced by the Dream Team, even though they have been around for 20 years, and what worked 20 years ago does not always work now. Mike 1:21 Mm-hmm. Ben 1:21 Uh, but just like, I remember, because like, uh, Stefania from Greece, uh, in both like 2020 and 2021, that was like part of the chat about her songs, is like, she's working with the Dream Team. they are some dudes who pop up, and I think one of them helped with Bulgaria this year, which is why we've decided to talk about them now. Mike 1:38 Yes, yes. So, uh, the Dream Team, it is like a larger group of people, but the three main people, uh, that are involved are composer and producer Dimitris Kontopoulos, choreographer, focus, evangelinos, and composer slash hype man Philip Kyrgyarov. Uh, what, one is maybe a little bit more notable in the community individually, in pairs, and as a trio, they have contributed to almost 30 Eurovision entries since 2004. more than half of those entries finished in the top 10, and they only have two non-qualifiers on their resume, so, um, pretty good track record. Ben 2:22 Yeah, yeah, I, I see, I see why we call them the Dream Team. Mike 2:25 we'll talk about their work as individuals first, just so we kind of get a sense of what each person is bringing to the table. Um, and then we'll talk about some of their entries, and kind of how they fit in the overall Eurovision landscape. ------ Fokas Evangelinos ------ 2:39 Mike 2:39 let's start with Focus Evangelinos. Uh, since 2004, he has been the creative director, choreographer for 23 entries at the contest. as a name probably tipped you off, Focus is originally from Greece, and has been a choreographer and director. Uh, since 1991, uh, he opened his own school in 1996, and has worked with several Greek pop stars, uh, many of whom have eventually represented Greece at Eurovision. Uh, one of his frequent collaborators is Sackis Ruvus, who represented Greece in 2004 and 2009. Uh, and he also hosted the 2006 contest, uh, along with, the star of I'll Be Home for Margarita Day, uh, Maria Menounos. Ben 3:31 I'm like, where is this going? Mike 3:34 Yeah, yeah, that, it's a little bit of a tangent, but, yeah, it's like, what, because I was just trying to find, like, oh, what are her other credits? Because I didn't want to just refer to her as, is it Movie, Nuvi, Ben 3:45 It's like, Mike 3:45 what? Ben 3:45 it's Nuvi. Mike 3:46 Nuvi, Ben 3:47 It Mike 3:47 okay. Ben 3:47 used to be something else, but now it's Nuvi. You know, the thing that's on at the theater when you get there. Mike 3:51 Yeah, I think the last time that I saw her was, uh, when I was pumping gas, and she was just, like, screaming at me from the gas pump. Ben 4:00 No, like, uh, she was just on, uh, one of those, like, CNN variants that's only on at the airport. It's just, like, I just remember looking at, looking in, like, in my peripheral vision, like, oh, it's Maria Menounos. Mike 4:11 Yes, yes, so, uh, yeah, so it's like, what on earth is I'll Be Home for Margarita Day? And, Lifetime has done the sort of, like, extended SpawnCon mini-movie things, they partnered with Chili's to create, like, a 15-minute short, uh, co-starring Taye Diggs, that was just all about National Margarita, uh, in the style of a Lifetime movie or Hallmark movie of, woman gives up her career to go back to her small town to drink margaritas at Chili's. I, I could not find it, and I was not going to dig up my Lifetime screener credentials Ben 4:51 Mm-hmm. Mike 4:51 to get the full story. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ben 5:03 now here we are, Mike 5:04 yeah, Ben 5:04 uh, Mike 5:04 yeah. Ben 5:04 We're just sort of, like, a Mad Libs worth of just sort of, Taye Diggs and Maria Menounos are doing SpawnCon fake Lifetime movie for margaritas. Mike 5:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I watched the one where it was, uh, Mario Lopez as Colonel Sanders, and it was, like, some sort of Mission Impossible thing. It really made no sense, uh, and it did not make me want to buy KFC, so, um, not, not sure how successful the, uh, t particular, transaction is. Anyway, let's bring the focus back to focus, Thank you. Uh, so his first Eurovision entry was Shake It by Sakis Roovas, uh, which finished third in the 2004 contest. So, not a bad debut. Uh, he with the Greek delegation again in 2005, which worked out very well, giving Greece their first win at the contest. uh, this got him the gig as the creative director for Eurovision 2006, where he also had time to work with Russia's Dima Balan and his entry Never Let You Go, uh, which finished second. So, in his first three outings, Focus had achieved gold, silver, and bronze. So, um, yeah, real hot commodity in the Eurovision circuit. Ben 6:23 Yes. Mike 6:24 he would work with, uh, Dima Balan again in 2008, and got Russia their first win. he took a bit of a hiatus in the early 2010s, um, but then started collaborating with the Dream Team from, uh, 2017 through 2021. Uh, in 2022 and from 2024 onward, he has been the creative director for, the Greek delegation, and including their national selection process in 2025 and 2026. thinking of these performances, so you've got, like, Shake It!, you've got, My Number One, Never Let You Go. when you're thinking of the staging of these performances, what features jump out to you? Ben 7:05 Mm-hmm. I mean, thinking about that, and then also thinking about the most recent run of Greek entries, just because you mentioned he's involved with those, again. Like, there is always a dance component for the most part. Somewhere, kind of, like, somewhere in there. Mike 7:18 Mm-hmm. Ben 7:18 Maybe less so in, like, Never Let You Go, but, like, Never Let You Go does have just, sort of, like, a person popping out of a piano. want to keep the visual focus there. Mike 7:27 Yes. Uh, and there are the two ballet dancers. Ben 7:30 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike 7:31 Tiptoeing in the background. Ben 7:32 But, yeah, there's always kind of some kind of group dance component happening, which makes sense. He's a choreographer. That's... Mike 7:38 Mm-hmm. Ben 7:38 ...his bread and butter. mean, particularly his most recent work, if he has worked on a bunch of the recent Greek entries, like, I think they've had very strong staging concepts most recently. Mike 7:48 Mm-hmm. Yeah, like, I'm thinking of, uh, what he did with Fairto this year, and just, Ben 7:53 Yeah, Mike 7:53 like, really... Ben 7:54 Fairto... Mike 7:54 Using the entire stage, like, multiple scenes within the performance. Ben 7:59 Mm-hmm. Astero Mata. Uh, he was involved Marina Sati. Like, even, like, the one-take nature of that, like, that's still, like, like, he's having interesting ideas about staging. I see why you'd want to keep him in the fold, and why you'd probably want to have him on speed dial if you're trying to stage a good Eurovision entry. Mike 8:18 Absolutely. And, and just the ambitiousness of the staging, I think is like, has really kind of pushed staging forward at Eurovision. Um, like his, the 2004 performance of Shake It, like it's just Sokka's and a couple of dancers, but Ben 8:35 Mm-hmm. Mike 8:35 he's still bringing in like pulling handkerchiefs out of the backs of, the dancers and just like lots of reveals. And, I think this is before people really had like larger staging elements and we'll get into that with, uh, once we get into the dream team collaboration piece of it. But, like big props on stage probably due to what Focus was bringing to the table. And yeah, so big props to big props. So, ------ Dimitris Kontopoulous ------ 9:05 Mike 9:06 let's talk about Dimitris Kontopoulos. Uh, he is a songwriter, composer, and producer from uh, who studied film scoring at USC. his work first started showing up on albums in like 1999. Uh, and he was writing and producing with Eero, who is a Greek singer songwriter, uh, who happened to be the runner up in Greece's national selection in 1998. She missed out on going to Eurovision by 57 votes. Like it was an all tele vote final. I'm just like, oh man, and just need one more, one more person with speed dial he's been associated with 16 Eurovision entries since 2007. Uh, most of them have been collaborations with the Dream Team. Uh, but his last three entries were without Kierkorov or Focus, in the mix. two entries from Cyprus. So, Liar from Cilia Capsis and Shhh from Theo Evan. Um, and Bangaranga from Dara this year, uh, which is why we're talking about this, as you mentioned up top. Um, so this is his first Eurovision win, uh, even though like he's been very successful overall in the contest, but this, this is the first time that he actually gets the songwriter award. ------ Philipp Kirkorov ------ 10:23 Mike 10:23 the third piece of the Dream Team is Philip Kierkorov. Um, and I will try to keep this short so it's not,because honestly, that is a separate episode on its own, maybe even a miniseries, because there is a lot going on with this guy. he is originally from Varna, Bulgaria. Um, and he debuted, child on the Soviet musical TV show, Wider Circle, uh, which was this kind of talent showcase that was on the air for over 30 years. Uh, uh, uh, Kierkorov's father was also a singer, uh, of Armenian heritage, so, like, music was in his family. Uh, when he went to school, he studied musical comedy and graduated with honors, and he met, uh, Ella Pugacheva, uh, in 1988, and she is one of the biggest stars that Russia has ever produced. Um, she's another one that we should probably do an episode on at some point, because I think she is fascinating, and she did represent, uh, Russia at Eurovision eventually. he toured with her in 1989, they got married in 1994, yeah, they were married for about 10 years. They got, uh, divorced in 2005. Kierkorov started, doing the, sort of, music competition circuit in the early 90s, and toured a little bit in the U. S., Canada, Germany, Israel, um, places, places with large, like, Russian populations. Uh, and in 1995, he was Russia's second representative at the contest, and let me send you a link to a video of that performance. Ben 12:22 Okay, I am clicking in three, two, one, click. Mike 12:42 It just keeps kind of going on like that. Ben 12:44 Okay, like, it's, it's just, it's this. Mike 12:47 Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's very, it's very mid-90s Eurovision. Ben 12:50 It's, it's, yeah, like, I got real, again, like I said, I got real excited, and I'm like, wait a minute, 1995. Yeah, Mike 12:56 yeah, I mean, he's got, like, kind of the, the puffy Ben 13:00 Yeah, Mike 13:00 shirt from. Ben 13:00 I was about to say, it's, it's very much the Seinfeld puffy shirt. Mike 13:03 like, Richard Mark's giant hair, uh, big eyes. Uh, while he's trying to emote during the song. It's, it, it's a lot, so. Ben 13:14 It just, it's everything you want out of finding out that Philip Kerkorov had a mid-90s Eurovision entry. It's like, yep, that's him. Mike 13:21 Yes. Ben 13:22 Nascent, nascent Philip Kerkorov. Mike 13:24 Yep. usually when I, like, encounter songs of this nature at Eurovision, I just kind of want a reference point. It's just like, wait, what was the number one song in the U. S. or, like, elsewhere at that time? Uh, would you like to guess at what was number one in the U. S. in, uh, Eurovision 1995? Ben 13:43 Okay, trying to think, where are we at in terms of, I mean, Grunge doesn't really hit the top of the charts, but it's happening. But you also have SoundScan happen, it's like, I now know too much about the charts, I'm like, okay, there's SoundScan, which means that there's the rise of country and rap. Mike 14:00 Mm-hmm. Ben 14:00 Um, I don't know. Mike 14:02 Uh, I would say it's the opposite of this. This is how we do it, by Bond. Ben 14:09 Yes! Yeah, no, just, like, as, as diametrically opposed to whatever is happening in Eurovision mid-90s. Mike 14:16 Mm-hmm, he finished 17th at Eurovision, so, like, not, not great standing, in the contest, but he became, like, the best-selling Russian artist, according to the World Music Awards, in 1996, 1999, 2004, 2005, 2008, like, I mean, he's a big star in Russia. he started producing and nurturing talent in the early 2000s. like, that was kind of where he was contributing to, the Dream Team triad, like, he's not done anything, like, outside of a Dream Team context at the contest, like, all of his Eurovision contributions beyond his own performance has been either, with Demetrius, uh, with Vokus, or with both of them. almost all of them are top ten. He's had, uh, two that finished in third place, one that's finished in second place. Like, he's good at spotting talent and Ben 15:14 Mm-hmm. Mike 15:15 really good at talking him up. And, like, especially with working with these collaborators, it- it turns into- it really does kind of turn into magic. ------ Dream Team Collaborations ------ 15:22 Mike 15:22 and speaking of magic, the first Dream Team collaboration was Belarus's Work Your Magic, by Dimitri Kolden, Ben 15:31 Oh, boy, I'm seeing the- the screen- the preview screenshot. I'm like, yep, that's some 2007. Mike 15:37 Yep, yep, yep, the hair alone. Ben 15:40 Oh, boy. Three, two, one, click. The first YouTube comment on all of these is always just, like, 12 points from country. anybody here in 2024? Mike 16:04 Yeah. Ben 16:08 I feel like I get the vibe of where the rest of this is going. But, like- I think, like, very Bond theme about it. Mike 16:13 Mm-hmm. Ben 16:14 It is called Work Your Magic, so just, like, some- Some little- A little bit of stagecraft, just for fun. Just like, hey, there's nothing here, and then boom, there is. It's a man. Mike 16:21 Oh, yeah. And then, also, like, the like, moving, the two-piece platform wall set thing coming together, there are a lot of moving parts to the performance. But, I mean, you can kind of get the, like, the film scoring that Dimitris is bringing to the table, but then, like, thinking lyrically, like, this is something that I've kind of noticed in the, like, Kirkorov joints, where it's, like, it's very, I language. Li, I will do this. I will be number one. I will be- Like, it's very ego-driven. Ben 16:55 Mm-hmm. Mike 16:56 like, you do get to see, kind of, like, the puzzle pieces that they're bringing together to put together the performance. that performance ends up, uh, finishing in, uh, sixth place, which, like, as of recording, is still the best that Belarus has done at the contest. Perhaps they will come back one day. we will see if that happens. But, uh, yeah, this is still the watermark for them. the following year, they worked with Ukraine and Annie Lorak to do Shady Lady. this one, again, is a performance that has, like, the, like, the cubicles with all of the dancers. So you have, like, the four dancers and, like, the elaborate staging. Again, like, a really pulsing, almost cinematic quality to the songs, but then also, like, this very, hype-driven, like, I am the greatest, uh, lyricism that's going on. So, like, there's a definite pattern, but it works really well. this was the song that was my gateway to Eurovision, being like, oh, yes, more of this, please. Ben 18:14 Like, there is a general visual maximalism to their work together that I think kind of just overwhelms all of your senses at the same time. Mike 18:23 Yes, like, it overwhelms the senses, but in, like, a delightful way, not in a, like, threatening way, if that makes sense. Ben 18:32 Yes, yeah, no, uh, this is, this is gonna be a weirdly highbrow reference for what we're discussing, but just, like, I got done reading Infinite Jest this week, Mike 18:39 Okay. Ben 18:39 or re-reading Infinite Jest this week, and then part of that is just, like, the entertainment, which is a piece of media that is so entertaining that just, like, you forget to, you know, feed yourself. Mike 18:48 Oh, Ben 18:49 Because Mike 18:49 yes. Ben 18:49 you just want to keep watching it, and, like, very much, very much, that feels like the dream team's, like, goal. Mike 18:54 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's almost dreamlike, in a way, where it's like, oh, I just want this to kind of continue. like, this did very well for Ukraine. Like, this finished in second first place went to Dimablon with Believe, uh, which was another focus, choreography piece. So, he's having a really good year in 2008, Ben 19:14 Yeah, Mike 19:14 and... Ben 19:14 n, he's number one and number two. Mike 19:16 Yeah. Ben 19:16 It's the dream. Mike 19:17 Exactly, Kierkorov, he lots of different honors, as a result of his work. Like, uh, he is the people's artist of many regions, like, the Russian Federation in 2008. Uh, Ukraine awarded him that honor in 2008 as well, just because, like, they did well at Eurovision. he was an honorary citizen of Yalta in 2010. Like, uh, like a goodwill ambassador of the United Nations. Like, I mean, he was, like, getting a lot of really strong accolades, so 2007-2008, going great for them. Dimitris and Focus were also working together on entries kind of in the meantime. uh, 2009, they were, uh, both working with Sakas Ruvus, uh, f This Is Our Night. So, the giant Greek stapler. Ben 19:58 I was about to say the disco stapler, yes. Mike 20:14 that finished in seventh place. Uh, 2013, they worked, with Azerbaijan's team and Farid Mamadov for Hold Me, which, again, one of those, like, plexiglass cubicles. Uh, but, like, really fascinating choreography with, like, the shadow mirror work t was happening with the upside-down guys. Upside-down emotions, guys! Ben 20:35 Yes. Yeah, no, just, just, like, they love, they love a concept. also good at executing the concepts, uh, I say, as a person who watched the movie Digger this weekend. Mike 20:44 Oh, jeez, yeah. Ben 20:46 Concepts! Mike 20:47 Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, and that one was the runner-up in 2013, so, I mean, again, they're just, like, knocking it out of the park with these entries. Now, 2014 start to get a little messy, because this is when, uh, Russia annexes Crimea, from Ukraine, and the Dream Team is working on Russia's entry with the Tolmoshevi sisters and Shine. that was the one where it's, the twins, their hair is, kind of, b together, and they're on this, like, teeter-totter Ben 21:35 Mm-hmm. Mike 21:36 yeah, I was, like, watching that performance again just, like, okay, like, knowing the context of when this was taking place, like, uh, but, like, just thinking of it in the context of their overall works, like, oh, no, this is exactly, like, what they deliver on, and again, a strong concept, cinematic vocals, lyrics that are very, like, big-upping oneself, so. Ben 21:58 Yes, I... I feel like I remember back in our blogging era saying that the song had sounded like you locked some songwriters in a room and told them to write a song called Shine. and now I know what songwriters were locked in that room. Mike 22:09 Yes, yeah, a, and they did a good job of it, Ben 22:12 Yeah, Mike 22:12 so. Ben 22:13 no, like, they understood the brief. Mike 22:15 Yes, that one does finish in seventh place, even in a... Less than welcoming climate, it's still doing well on the scoreboard, though I do want to point out that Ukraine did come in sixth place that year. the dream team would work together again in 2016, again for Russia, with Sergei Lazarev. Yeah, so, again, like, huge pop star, I'm sure it's part of the, coterie of, developed talent that, uh, Kierkorov had been working with. just thinking of the performance of You Are The Only One. Like, what is your recollection of that performance? Ben 22:56 I mean, it's one of those ones where, again, just thinking about the political climate, yeah, not great, but also just real good staging. Just, you gotta, you gotta hand it to them, it's like, they did the job, and just sort of, just sort of, like... everybody was in their sort of, their stuff in the background that I'm responding to in real time era, but, yeah, no, like, it's just, like, it's very responsive, it's very cool. It's... Mike 23:15 Yeah. Ben 23:16 Just, like, again, he's, he's doing stuff, and it's responding in real time, because they've practiced this, like, 3,000 times to get... Mike 23:22 Yeah, and it's really pushing... ...this concept of staging forward, wh it's just like, oh, okay. It looks like he is in midair, because of the, like, the magic wall behind him. And they do that, like, I think it's in the lead into the second chorus, like, they do this tilt thing, where it just looks like he's in a spiral. Like, it's just, I remember at my Eurovision party that there were some people who showed up late, and so, like, during the interval part, I was like, okay, let's go back and show them, like, make sure that they see this performance. Ben 23:55 Mm-hmm. Mike 23:55 And they were both just, like, what is happening? Ben 23:59 this team is, like, very interested in pushing the medium forward. Mike 24:02 Mm-hmm. major breakthrough for the team. And they work with Sergei again in 2019. Not as successful, but it still has a lot of the hallmarks of what each of these guys is bringing to the table. ------ Setbacks ------ 24:15 Mike 24:15 One of the, I don't know, I guess, hiccups in the collaboration was in 2018 with Azerbaijan and the song X My Heart or Cross My Heart. This was Jess, Demetrius, and Focus that was working on this performance. And it finishes 11th in the semifinal. This is the first time that they do not qualify with one of their entries. And my recollection of that performance was that there was just a lot of weird camera work that was not serving the performance all that well.Like , just kind of, like, a lot of transitions that were awkwardly filmed. And it's, like, okay, now we're just seeing everybody going from, all right, positio one, get to position two now. Oh, and they're just kind of scurrying on stage. But re-watching it now, it's, like, oh, the vocal's fine. It was kind of a mismatch of artist and song don't think it's necessarily bad. It's just not necessarily great. Ben 25:28 Yeah, it's just, like, the parts don't come together as, lik, a cohesive whole. Because, yeah, because, like, just, I remember that one just because we had looked up what Eizel did beforehand and were, like, okay. And then when the song came up, we were, like, wait, this is, this is the person? like, competently staged, it felt, like, a little rough around the edges, because, again, like, the transitions and stuff, it felt, like, not quite ready to go, but, like, the show is, the show is live, so we're doing it. Mike 25:52 Right. Yeah, and, and I have to wonder how much of this may have been the Azerbaijan delegation, for a few years there, it seemed like they were, like, picking their singer and picking their songs completely independently of one another, and it was not always a match. Uh, like, 2019, even though they did make it to the Grand Final, Shingus is much more of a folk artist than the, um, angry boyfriend that he was coming across Ben 26:22 Yeah, Mike 26:22 as. Ben 26:22 yeah, it's like, yeah, there was just, like, that period where it's just like, hello, here's our singer, and we would look at the biography of their singer, and then they would release the song, and we'd go, wait, did, what? Mike 26:30 yeah, so that, that may have been a factor in there, but, like, you also learn from the setbacks, they're all fine, they're still working, so, um, yeah, so in 2019, they collaborate again on Scream, I did discover that Focus the creative director behind Spain's entry that year, Lavenda, which, in retrospect, makes a lot of sense. Ben 26:54 Yes, yes, it's just, like, who, because, like, we were, we were shouting, who chose this big house, and, like, the puppet outside of it, in hindsight, it makes sense. Mike 27:03 like, oh, it's all of the things, and, yeah, again, that one, not quite as successful, but it was with Spain, they were already in the final, so, um, yeah, kudos. Ben 27:13 Um, Mike 27:14 uh, 2020 comes along, and, the team is starting to come together, they are all working with, uh, Natalia Gordienko on Prison, for Moldova, Greece, uh, has Stefania, as their artist, and Supergirl, uh, is a collaboration with Kierkorov and Dimitris. and I presume that focus was going to be part of, the overall presentation. I think the contest got canceled before he was able to get fully on board with it. Uh, Moldova had a national selection process, so he was likely involved with her, uh, performance in that competition. But Greece was an internal selection, so there was nothing to choreograph, because everybody was staying home that year for reasons. Ben 28:02 Mm-hmm. Mike 28:03 the whole team gets together again in 2021, Sugar, uh, an underrated track, I feel, and this is actually Kierkorov's lowest ranking. Collaboration with the Dream Team. It finishes in 13th place, is, this is the one that is outside of the top 10 for him. Stefania's Last Dance, uh, as you mentioned earlier, that one was, uh, full Dream Team, full maximalism. Watching that performance again in preparation for this. It's like, uh, I see what you're going for here, but it really does not work. Ben 28:38 Well, and I also just like that because, uh, Focus, who I presume is handling, like, the choreography side of things. Mike 28:44 Mm-hmm. Ben 28:44 Like, I've had, like, an internal headcanon about 2020, 2021, where I'm like, they designed this for 2020 when it was Supergirl, and they've just sort of done the minimum tweaking out there, but nope. the, something about the, the various, like, piles of clothes doing their own dancing feels very Supergirl. Very superhero. Mike 29:00 Yeah, and, like, the flying around the city. Ben 29:02 Flying around the cityscape, yeah. Mike 29:05 I'm not sure how this could have been adjusted, but, yeah, you can kind of tell that it wasn't really successful, because I don't, I don't think there's been a lot of countries that have tried to mimic this. Like, there's just not a lot of green screen stuff that is happening at. Ben 29:21 No. it's also just partially just, like, no fun to, for, well, I mean, I feel like for a certain level of you're a fan, it is fun to just sort of see the TV magic happen in front of you, but also just, like, you're just seeing, hello, here's our large green screen and our dancers who are in, like, the little, the suits. Mike 29:37 Mm-hmm. Ben 29:37 if you enjoy watching the sausage making, you're having a great time. If you don't care, you're sort of missing out. Mike 29:44 Sugar Last Dance was their last dance as a dream team, and I think a big part of that is because Russia invades Ukraine, and it's adding a lot of complications to the collaboration, Kierkoroff is very involved in the Russian oligarchy. I think the easiest way to say it is, his politics don't necessarily align with my own. Um, like, he was Ben 30:14 yeah, Mike 30:14 a, uh, he was a big supporter of Trump in 2016. Um, and,like , there was just all these stories on, like, BBC and The Guardian being like, oh, Russia's Michael Jackson is throwing his support behind Trump, and it's like, oh, god, this looks even worse in retrospect. Ben 30:32 Yeah, jus, yeah, just like, oh, boy, we're describing him like that? Mike 30:35 Mm-hmm, after the invasion, like, a lot of political fallout is happening. Um, like, sanctions are being implemented, and, like, he is sanctioned. like, he's not able to go to Australia. He's been, banned from a number of countries, like, he's not allowed in Estonia, he's not allowed in Lithuania. I'm just strolling to the controversy Ben 30:55 book. Mike 30:55 section of his Uh, which, uh, I'm, I'm leaving off some of the more, like, criminal stuff and, abuse stuff, that, he's been either accused of, or that there is evidence of. he resigned as head of the Russian jury in 2009, because he was seen hanging out with Sakis Rivas and Alexander Reebok, which is kind of understandable. I mean, his other collaborators, like, are also close collaborators with Sakis, so it's like, Ben 31:22 Mm-hmm. Mike 31:22 okay, yeah, but he's competing that year, not really impartial. he broke a journalist's camera in 2009, he was in support of Russia annexing Crimea in 2014, so that already, like, put him in a bad light. Uh, Lithuania has banned him from entering the country, like, that went to, like, European courts and they were just like, nope, this, this ban is legitimate. Uh, Ukraine declared him a threat to national security in 2021, so this is even before the invasion happened. Uh, they've started imposing sanctions in 2023. Uh, Estonia's banned him since 2022. mean, he's one of a handful of, like, Eurovision people that are, uh, on, on Russia's side of And has been subject to sanctions, like, uh, Polina Gagorina, she, has also been sanctioned. Uh, Balenciaga, uh, refuses to sell items to Filip Kierkorov, uh, because of his support of Putin and the war in Ukraine. if he goes to any Balenciaga shop anywhere in the world, they're just like, no, you can't. Ben 32:23 Just, like, his photo is on the wall. Mike 32:24 Mm-hmm. Yeah, do not, do not sell to this man. So, a number of the honors that he received, uh, in 2008, like, have been revoked. Uh, like, Ukraine considered him a people's artist in 2008. That got revoked in 2024. and he's considered a traitor in Ukraine, and not in the fun Claudia Winkleman sort of way. Like, I, it, it's, it's serious. And Annie Lorak, who was also, recognized for her artistic contributions in 2008 and getting second place, she's also been stripped of that honor. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's real sad. Ben 33:03 Uh, yeah, I mean, but, like, but yeah, like, it kinda explains why they have not really been, like, working as a trio. It's Mike 33:09 mm-hmm. Ben 33:09 just like, well, one of your... one member of the three of you, uh, can't go to a bunch of the countries who presumably would like to hire that's a, t just a massive logistical issue. Mike 33:21 Mm-hmm. Ben 33:21 Uh, Mike 33:21 Mm-hmm. Ben 33:22 so, yeah, but, like, uh, I think that explains, like, why we see the other two continuing to work and work together, maybe. just with, with fewer, uh, Philip Kerkharov, identified talents. Mike 33:31 Yeah, although, I, I told you that I think I saw him in 2022, right? Ben 33:36 I think so, yeah. Mike 33:37 Yeah, uh, like, I was, like, ten feet away from him, or... Ben 33:41 He does, he occasionally pops up, yeah. Mike 33:42 Yeah, yeah, Ben 33:43 He's Mike 33:43 like, he... Ben 33:44 not banned from everywhere. Mike 33:45 Right, he was going to greet some of the, uh, uh, contestants, like, as they were exiting the arena, and, like, the only reason that I, I'm not a hundred percent certain it was him was, like, he, he was looking really haggard, but maybe he was just kind of maintaining that appearance so he wouldn't be easily recognized. But, um, what he was wearing was still, like, an outlandish outfit. Ben 34:06 Outlandish Mike 34:07 sneakers. So... Ben 34:09 You know, like, they're, like, I'm, like, I think, and then also just, like, like, in the Eurovision movie, like, the Dan Stevens character is basically kind of Kirkcarat. Mike 34:16 Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, there's a lot going on there. Again, I really think that, uh, this could be a separate episode. we haven't even gotten into the almost naked party piece of it. Ben 34:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just, like, yes, yeah, there was, like, a New York Times report about just, sort of, like, there was a party or, uh, where Russian law prohibits X, Y, and Z. But it's, again, it's the oligarchy, so just, like, if you have enough money, you can kind of do what you want. Mike 34:43 Mm-hmm. Ben 34:44 Uh, and just, like, the, that came out, and then just sort of, like, was, and just, there was a bunch of Russian-Eurovision names on it, basically. Mike 34:51 Yep, yeah, like, uh, Dima Bulan was on that list, Kirkarov was on that list, and it was just, like, it was a lot of, like, famous people that, uh, were at this party. Many of them were almost naked. There's no details on what was happening at this party, but the real controversy about it was the fact that it's, like, okay, this is a country that is at war right now. And you are partaking in this debauchery. Um, so, it was just seen as disrespectful. Like, it's, like, hey, this is what fascism gets you, folks. like, there is a lot of political fallout from that, where it's just, like, he's kind of not welcome in Russia right now. So, he's kind kind of wandering, I Ben 35:35 Mm-hmm. Mike 35:35 think. That is probably adding to the difficulty for, like, the Dream Team to fully assemble again. So, um, yeah, and there's no telling if there is going to be future collaborations. uh, has his gig with Grease, and he's probably going to have that gig until he doesn't want it anymore. Uh, Dimitris, feels more freelance-y in what he does. Uh, like, he's, he's worked with Cyprus for a couple of years. He's worked with Bulgaria this year and just kind of floats around. If there's a project where they do happen to cross paths, great. but, yeah, the Kirkaroff piece of it, um, is probably gone for the time being. And no telling if or when that, that is going to change. just, just to, like, kind of highlight some of the other collaborations that have happened, uh, with, like, two of the three. so yeah, it's kind of a high level overview of, the dream team, but, just, just looking at their track record, they've just been phenomenal. like every single one of these performances is like, oh yeah, I remember that one. I remember that one. I remember that one. Like they, they have put the vision in Eurovision yeah. And it's neat that Demetrius has finally gotten his win. I, I feel it is well-deserved. I, really enjoy what his Eurovision catalog includes. Ben 36:50 He got his win. Yeah. He's, he has been putting in the work. Mike 36:53 Yeah. Yeah. So looking forward to what his future contributions will be as well. that's all I got for now. So that's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowhat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowhat podcast is hosted by Mike McComb. That's me. And Ben Smith. Ben 37:09 That's me. You can find our full archive episodes on our website at Eurowhat.com. you can also leave us a review on Apple podcasts and Spotify podcasts. Your 12 points or five stars are always appreciated. Mike 37:21 Next time on the Eurowhat, what's the deal with zoop?