What is Zoop? The EuroWhat? Podcast The EuroWhat? Podcast Ben 0:12 Hello, and welcome to the Eurowhat, episode 311, dropping on October 20th, 2026. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm Ben Smith, and I'm here with my co-host, Mike McComb. Hey, Mike! Mike 0:25 Hey, Ben. Ben 0:27 In this episode, we'll be talking about whatever the hell Zoop is. Uh, are you excited to learn about Zoop, Mike? We've been hearing so much about them during the Eurovision Asia promotional stuff. Mike 0:38 guess? I... Ben 0:40 I All of the Eurovision Asia hosts have been so excited about whatever the hell Zoop is. Mike 0:46 Yeah, yeah, and, like, I know it's this thing that, like, Eurovision, like, proper, I guess? I don't know, like, Eurovision mainline has been, like, sort of flogging as well, and I, like, when it was first announced, I, like, tried to find information about it and couldn't really get any immediate answers, so I kind of dropped it. And, yeah, so I'm glad that you're taking the lead on this Ben 1:12 like, Mike 1:12 one. Ben 1:12 all of the promotional text that, again, our various hosts have been reading with varying levels of excitement, just thinking about Thasan Khan and just sort of doing all of the hosting of Bangladesh as though he's trying to not wake up his roommate who's sleeping in the other room. even the promotional text isn't, like, super clear, like, why you should join Zoop or what it is. And I wanted to dig into that just because, again, we've been watching so many of these selection shows. We hear the same promo copy every time. Like, okay, but what is it? in digging into this, I just sort of stared into the abyss, by which I mean I went on to LinkedIn.com to try and figure out more business information about what Zoop is. Mike 2:12 know that is a big sacrifice on your part, so. Ben 2:16 Has not stared back. I have not gotten a report of anybody from Zoop looking at my profile trying to figure out what the hell I'm doing. Mike 2:22 Mm-hmm. Ben 2:23 But, you know, give it a few email cycles, it'll show up. so my background is in software engineering. of years ago, I don't really want to think about at this I was in a class specifically on requirements gathering where we had, lik, a two-quarter project where we were working with people from the local community. We were taking their software needs, and we were turning them into a requirements document, and then, like, a project plan just over the course of two courses. They understood this was not actually going to become a software thing. the project I ended up working on was somebody who wanted to build a marketplace for trading goods and services. We're just like, okay, I have a leaf blower. You know, I want to trade that for whatever. In the process of doing that, I just remember one meeting where, like, I was already asking the hard-hitting questions for sort of online services that we no longer ask anymore. Just looking at the current AI phase Mike 3:10 like... Ben 3:10 of things. Mike 3:11 Like, why do we need this? Ben 3:13 Yes. Yes. So the big one of just like, why do we need this? Because at the time that we did this, just sort of the services that you would generally go to to try and do this sort of thing. Reddit existed. It was that, you know, this was after 2005. Mike 3:24 Hmm. Ben 3:25 Craigslist very much existed. And then Nextdoor was like, new. But all of these things would have been able, you would have been able to do this sort of thing. But then also the main question I had is, okay, but how do you make sure that on this website that somebody is not trading their body for services, for stuff? You know, what do you do? And there's just like, so are you guys going to have moderators? Or, you know, how do you envision this working? And there was not a real answer to that question. But then the second question was also, okay, but like, how is this going to make enough money to keep running? If this was the real thing? It's like, how do you envision this working? And anyways, now we're going to talk about Zoop, a website. It definitely has a purpose. in the process of reading so many press releases, and so many business webpages, and Forbes, and things like this. I got essentially just like so blitzed reading all of that, that I thought that the best way to present this was as a pitch deck. So I am sharing a screen now of the pitch deck I made about Zoop. But yeah, basically, just like, I had to look at all of this, and now you have to look at all of this too. Mike 4:33 Yay. I guess we may need to put this on YouTube. Provide some sort of visual aids. people listening at home. Ben 4:42 the place where we can put in the show notes. That's going to be, it's available for company. And I did try to pick, like, the most corporate Memphis slide deck theme that Google had available. it felt correct. Uh, anyways, so our agenda of what we're gonna talk about is just sort of the general world of Zoops, uh, because, surprise, there's more than one. Uh, and then with our specific Zoop we're talking about today, just sort of the 1.0, what we thought this was gonna do, uh, the current, what we think this is gonna do, uh, a fun attempted acquisition that I was not expecting to run into, uh, some brand partnerships they've made, and then we'll just be reviewing the Zoop experience. ------ A World of Zoops ------ 5:19 Ben 5:19 kicking us off with the world of Zoops, there are a lot of other websites called Zoop right now, Mike 5:26 Yeah, it, it doesn't seem like it's that unique of a name, because there's, like, uh, there's a video game that I keep referencing from, like, 1994, I wanna say. Ben 5:35 1995, Super NES. Mike 5:37 My mistake. U, and then, uh, the restaurant, although I think that's spelled with a U, Um, I've never eaten there, so, like, is it good? I, like, is it, like, a Potbelly's, or, Ben 5:49 Who, Mike 5:49 like, Ben 5:50 who's? Mike 5:50 uh? Ben 5:50 Like a Hale and Hardy's, it's sort of a, yeah, what Mike 5:53 Okay. Ben 5:53 is it? Uh, but specifically, spelling things Z-O-O-P. Uh, there are multiple things on LinkedIn when you go to LinkedIn to try and find Zoop. there is a Brazilian financial services platform that has a significant number more followers than the Zoop that we want, uh, that has, like, about 60,000 followers to Zoop's, like, 8,000. Mike 6:13 Mm-hmm. Ben 6:13 Uh, there's a couple different services and companies in India calling themselves Zoop. Uh, one is, uh, a consumer services thing that will deliver you, uh, food on the train. Uh, and another one is, like, a little, like, live sales thing, sort of, like, how eBay has live sales now. Uh, but they are, they are India's live bizarre. Mike 6:32 uh, the one that we're talking about is the only one that's in all caps. Ben 6:35 Yes. Yeah, that is, Mike 6:36 Yeah. Ben 6:36 that is the distinguishing factor right now, is they are in all caps. they're not even, like, the first, the first search result, and, like, this could just be my algorithm. Uh, I have switched over to DuckDuckGo, which is in places lesser than Google. But even on DuckDuckGo, uh, the main Zoop that I get is a crowdfunding platform for, like, graphic novels and comics. like, another services that is, like, uh, focusing itself on, uh, being very, uh, connecting you with creators. Mike 7:06 Hmm. Ben 7:06 So just, again, no, you need to be more specific. Uh, over on Google, uh, the comics platform is still number one in the actual results. Little AI Overview mentioned the 1995 puzzle game, the sidebar. Uh, there's apparently some sort of, like, Reddit. Uh, there's, like, a Reddit thing about, like, some sort of, like, slapping game. Just, like, the, like, it has the correct logo of what it thinks I want. But, but, like, none of the results are social, are social network platform, Zoop. Mike 7:32 SEO is tough, okay? Especially... Ben 7:34 Yeah, SEO is Mike 7:34 The Ben 7:35 tough, Mike 7:35 current Ben 7:35 yeah, but... Mike 7:35 environment. Ben 7:35 Also, I presume that you Googled if anything else was called Zoop when you started your company. Mike 7:40 Hmm, true. Ben 7:42 Uh, but yeah, again, like, the comics platform, again, very creator-focused. Easy to, like, land on the first search result and be like, okay, is this the app? no, they primarily focus... Like, it's just, like, Kickstarter for comics that's not Kickstarter. but our Zoop, the Zoop that we care about, the Zoop that I should start putting in all caps but refuse kicks off around 2022. ------ Zoop 1.0 (2022-2024) ------ 8:01 Ben 8:01 Uh, let's talk about some people that we're gonna see a bunch. Uh, primarily the two on the left here in the slide deck. Uh, we've got RJ Phillips, who is the current CEO. He was co-CEO with Tim Stokely. they start around 2022. These are the two main founders. Uh, Tim Stokely, most notably, is one of the founders and was CEO of OnlyFans. Mike 8:21 Okay? Uh... Ben 8:23 Yeah! Yeah, and... Then has been trying to do other platforms for creators to engage with their fans and somehow make money off of that. Mike 8:31 Mm-hmm. Ben 8:32 Uh, of the two of them, he's the co-founder with a Wikipedia entry, mostly because of the OnlyFans piece. Uh, but again, he's stopped being... CEO there in December 2021. I believe he's still on the board. It's still some kind of advisory thing. And again, he's involved in the space. Mike 8:46 Mm-hmm. Ben 8:47 Uh, RJ Phillips does not have a Wikipedia page, but he's the one who pops up in all the press releases I have read. he is just, like, very good at press releases. Just sort of, like, our beloved,uh , Barton Green CBE. and then also the thing that I found funny is, like, there's a couple mentions here and there about... He went to Harvard Business School. He went to Harvard Business School and got the Owner Project Management degree, which is the same Harvard Business School degree that Tyra Banks has. You didn't actively go to Harvard Business School for, like, three to four years. You just went to, like, three very intense sessions and paid a lot of money. Mike 9:18 Mm-hmm. But, hey, the diploma's a diploma. Ben 9:21 Yeah, it's about to take... It says, you went to Harvard Business School. Mike 9:24 Yep. Ben 9:24 like, less notable, but we will chat about him later, uh, in the, in the more modern era, we also have Babak Gokhar pop up a lot, he is the creative director at Zoop, and he seems to be doing a lot of the events engagement, like, like the Enhanced Games and Eurovision Asia, for Zoop 1.0, it's 2022. What's, what's, uh, super this is from a Forbes article at the end of 2022, it's the new connect to collect way to your favorite model, celebrity, or musician. So again, how can we engage with celebrities? How can we provide this way? What we can do is we can give them something that's, like, not an NFT, but is kind of an NFT. the idea is, like, these fun little avatars. reading through a lot of these things going, okay, but, like, ho does this make money? Uh, and they're just like, it's gonna be a fully functioning ecosystem through avatars that change every week. The celebrities stay the same. What changes their, their clothes and their style? One week, they're dressed as astronauts on Mars. The next week, it's Halloween. They're in Halloween costumes and so forth. You are making the same face I made as I read this article. Mike 10:24 Okay. Yeah, like, so it's reminding me, I think these were, they may have been YouTube ads, where it was, like, Microsoft Copilot advertising. It's like, you could turn your dad into a cartoon! A it's like, is this the business plan? Is this how, like, we're, we're poisoning the earth because you want to turn somebody into a cartoon? Ben 10:48 Well, yeah, and just, like, we had things, we had ways to make custom avatars before that, and they were free. Mike 10:52 Mm-hmm. Ben 10:53 Is these, which are fun, stylish avatars, which are powered by NFTs, powered by NFTs, but not marketed as such, and then sold in an easy-to-understand way where you can buy them with your debit card. Mike 11:05 Huh. Ben 11:06 Yeah, and then, like, there's, like, a promise of, like, some sort of membership with it, too, of just, like, if you buy a certain amount of them, you get access to a creator's community, like, a football club or a record label, you know? Uh, but just, like, like, trying to at all times be, like, they're not NFTs. We know that NFTs are dying. These are not NFTs. Mike 11:21 Mm-hmm. Ben 11:22 These are avatars you collect that work in the metaverse. A thing that is, that also is dying in 2022 and 2023. Uh, remember when Facebook was super excited about avatars that didn't have legs? Mike 11:34 Yeah, I mean, at least these avatars, but they do look kind of like Funko Pops, so... Ben 11:41 Funko Pop, and just sort of, it's sort of, like, you get this fun little celebrity avatar that you can dress up in different outfits and use to play games. With our partner in the metaverse, Hedera, who is a blockchain platform, and I, like, I refused to learn about the blockchain then, and I refused to learn about it now. Mike 11:58 Okay. Ben 12:01 Cash, I guess? Mike 12:03 No, you can use Kohl's cash. Ben 12:07 My day, my Dutch tulip crisis was the Beanie Babies, and at the end of the day, when that market cratered, I still had a bunch of soft, beanbag-like toys. I had a physical object that I cared about. As opposed a digital avatar of somebody, I guess. who cares about any of this? but anyways, they had strategic partnerships. Celebrity avatars at the cornerstone of the platform can be used by fans in 4,000 supported apps and games across multiple metaverses and beyond. a lot of press releases like this. Just a lot of, we're very excited about the avatars of celebrities in outfits. Mike 12:38 Do Ben 12:39 Uh... Mike 12:39 they name any of the celebrities? Ben 12:41 Of course not. Mike 12:42 Okay. Ben 12:43 Of course not. Uh, because the next question, what's in it for the celebrity? Why would they join? there's just sort of a promise of, li,70% of the upside, to which I will point out that 70% of zero dollars is still zero dollars. Mike 12:55 So why not 90%? Ben 12:57 Yeah, exactly. J, yeah. just specifically, I think, you know, this was at the point where just, like, uh, Jimmy Fallon and Paris Hilton were, like, promot Bored Apes on The Tonight Show. And whenever anybody would start their own little, uh, coin or whatever, it would crater. And so a lot of people did not, did not like, uh, that everybody was left holding the bag, looking at them very angrily. So just, like, we're gonna do all the heavy lifting for this thing that's not an NFT, but is an NFT. Uh, but yeah, just sort of continuing on to other interviews from the time, again, we get that same beautiful, uh, avatar sort of deal. offer tradable NFTs without the baggage of NFTs. Mike 13:36 Was the whole point of NFTs was that they're not supposed to be transferable? Ben 13:41 I mean, it's, it's, it's your board ape, but you get to, but you can use it in other places. Cause just like, people are just like, I'm going to make an animated cartoon with this guy because I Mike 13:49 Okay. Ben 13:49 own it. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, you're, you get to engage with celebrities and sports figures and never, never naming who those are, uh, through tradable digital avatars. how did you get this idea is, is one of the questions being asked to this company, which is a reasonable thing we want to know. Uh, we wanted to bring 3d avatars to life and then ensure that they had massive utility and ensure that users weren't circumvented from getting involved based on their technical know-how. It's meant to be a super low barrier to entry. And then it's for the market to decide what price they want to pay for them. You know, how NFTs work, I guess. But yeah, uh, who is the target user? Who is the target user? Another very good question, that they acknowledge as that's a really good question, which is not a great thing to answer to your interviewer about like, who's, who's the user? for this. We don't what we understand with the celebrities we speak to is independent NFT projects with no utility leave fans with a bad taste in their mouth, especially if they're issued at the top of the these fans have been left holding something that they can't do anything And their definition of celebrity is just like TikTokers from Japan or college baseball players. They like that zoo provides some utility behind what we're issuing. So again, we don't know who the celebrities are. We don't know who's going to use these avatars, but we have a marketplace for for it. Mike 14:59 okay. Ben 15:00 How will zoom make money? Uh, we, we charge small fees on people selling avatars into our secondary market. Then we also charge the brands for creating communities around what we're doing as well. the word NFT does not appear in our website or in our marketing because that cuts off the users we're targeting, right? We're 3d collectibles powered by the technology of NFT fans don't need to know that word to be able to interact with what we're building. Uh, so. Mike 15:19 it's a marketplace for me's is, is, is, is, is, am I understanding this? Ben 15:27 Like that, that feels about what it is, is just sort of like there. Yeah. It's just like, we've seen like this, this sort of like blocky, uh, kind of Funko poppy kind of just sort of like basic 3d avatar. me's. Yeah. basically that, uh, no one wants, no one wants this. Like no celebrities are signing on. Uh, they don't like that. They're being called NFTs. They're unsure how they'll make money. like at this point, li it's just sort of, here is a beautiful classic tweet about, uh, the apes and like slurp juices. A lot of y'all still don't get it. Ape holders can use multiple slurp juices on a single ape. So if you have one Astro ape and three slurp juices, you can create three new apes. Tonig slurp juice mint event is essentially a minting event for lab monks and special forces. Um, anyways, so that was like round one of here's what we think this will be and what it will do. And as we've sort of pointed out, none of this makes sense. Okay. So anyways, here, 2023, uh, here's, here's like a slight pivot. So sort of a lateral move. Uh, they partner with a service called humans. ai to translate celebrity talk in new languages for fans worldwide. Uh, so we got the same kind of like blocky avatar guys on a humans. ai is just sort of a word salad of early 2020s buzzwords about blockchain and NFTs and AI. Mike 16:45 you don't Ben 16:45 And Mike 16:45 say, uh, Ben 16:48 the incorporation of blockchain technology seems to generate non-functional fungible tokens for synthetic media and AI apps to, to foster transparency, accountability, and long-term governance. Uh, what do our friends at zoop want to do with this? And here's one of the beautiful, uh, avatars that they have. just like trading cards that come to life as animated avatars. the partnership will help on its mission to remove existing barriers and elevate fan and celebrity relationships. Barriers that celebrities, frankly, want to have in place. Uh, it will use humans. ai as technology and safe framework on zoop to enable fans worldwide to hear their favorite celebrities and creators speak the same language in their unique voice when engaging with them through video and audio, regardless of language barriers. Again, celebrities love to have deep fakes created of them. Mike 17:28 And I like in this image that you have here, the like human person is wearing a jacket with an eight on it. Uh, but then we see an animated avatar who I presume is a basketball player because the avatar is like in a basketball kit with the number five on it. ------ What's Popping Clip Slide 24 ------ 17:45 Mike 17:44 So it seems like attention to detail is really going to be key here. Ben 17:48 yeah, it' just like, okay, but like, what is humans. ai specifically going to do here with our technology? We can recreate the voices of our cherished celebrities and creators providing each fan with a distinctive interactive encounter in their preferred language. Just like, how can I enjoy Cardi B saying what's poppin? If I only speak Hungarian. how does this benefit me? How do you know? How am I supposed to enjoy this? this very, That's a very crucial video link. just wanted to make sure there was some levity in between all of the screaming. Mike 18:34 Maybe now is a good time to say that this is not sponsored content, uh, this is not, like, Ben 18:40 this is, this is, yeah, no, it's like, we have, we have not gotten, any money, any Zoopies, we'll get into what Zoopies are, but we have not gotten Mike 18:47 No. Ben 18:47 any Zoopies. Zoop. yeah, just, just hearing that out loud, just, like, terrible name. Um, but yeah, we do, we, yeah, this content is not sponsored by Zoop. They are not aware it exists. anyways, but yeah, just, like, how am I supposed to enjoy, uh, this beautiful video of Cardi B going, what's poppin' about her Swisher Sweets Uggs if I don't speak English? Mike 19:10 Mm-hmm. Ben 19:11 I can't find anything about where this partnership went, uh, just because, uh, it was in 2023 and link degrading amongst, like, tech news in particular of just, like, but what happened from the humans. ai partnership with Zoop? What came of that? It doesn't matter. They, they could very quickly just sort of ------ The Pivot (2025-2026) ------ 19:30 Ben 19:30 By the time we get to 2025, they're starting to think of themselves. Less as fun avatars you can use in the metaverse, I guess, even though we're not doing the metaverse anymore. Mike 19:41 Mm-hmm. Ben 19:42 And also making your favorite celebrities say things that, you know, just, like, auto-translate just sort of their, their cameo for you. Uh, now we're a social platform that wants to help creators get more for their work than YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, whatever, provide. here is the, the chart they sent me in an email. They have been sending me emails since I signed up with an account telling me about the benefits. let's do a fun little exercise where, like, I'm gonna be Zoop and you're gonna be TikTok slash Instagram slash YouTube and Zoop's eyes. So just, like, who earns from your attention? Mike 20:12 The platform. Ben 20:14 Whereas with Zoop, you, the creator, earned, earned from your attention. Does the algorithm control your feed? Mike 20:20 Yes! Ben 20:21 Not on Zoop. There's no algorithm. are there bots in your feed? Mike 20:25 Oh, constantly. Ben 20:27 There are zero on Zoop. Human only. of platform cut of revenue? Mike 20:31 up to 80%. Ben 20:33 on Zoop, we only get 20%. Although, that's not true because of one of the other things that they sent me, uh, that we'll get to you. But just, like, here's another email sent to me, a potential creator on Zoop. every time you engage on Zoop, you earn Zoopies. Here's what you can do with your Zoopies. Yeah, which is, like, I don't like this Mike 20:48 No. Ben 20:48 name. I don't like saying it out loud. No, no, no. You can unlock exclusive creator content. You can access experiences and perks within the app. Y can use them across Zoop as you engage more. Uh, and in the future updates, Zoopies will be exchangeable for Zoop coins, bringing real tangible value to your activity. You know, slurp juices for your apes. Mike 21:09 Okay, so, are Zoop coins, like, a Bitcoin-type thing? Or is this also just another type of candy crush currency? Ben 21:18 Uh, it is unclear at this time, and we will- we'll- we'll- we'll circle back to that, but just, like, put a pin in that for now. But yeah, just, like, at some point, these will become Zoop coins, which are different than Zoopies. the part that I think- that I feel like has to be a real deterrent for, like, major creators one of the easiest ways to earn on Zoop is just sort of like a Mary Kay upline kind of a deal, where if you invite somebody to the platform, you invite- you get 5% of everything the creator makes. If I somehow trick Mr. Beast into posting on Zoop, I get 5% of whatever Zoopies, Zoop coins, whatever he earns. the example they keep giving is, if one of them joins through you and makes $10, 000, that's $500 in your pocket for making the introduction. Just incredibly weird. It's- and, like, just the sort of thing where, like, it's really easy to, uh, promise 80% when you're currently making $0. Mike 22:09 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Ben 22:11 the second this gets popular, I have to imagine they're going to be like, hello, we have changed terms and services conditions. any time that, like, the rewards program for- for, like, a restaurant chain changes, just, lik, too many of you have been getting free coffee from Dunkin' Donuts, so we're changing how the points work. Mike 22:25 Oh, good. I'm glad that you're still mad about that, like I- Ben 22:27 Yeah. Oh, I Mike 22:28 No! Ben 22:29 am mad. Just, like, how dare they? Mike 22:33 I mean, Ben 22:33 In Mike 22:33 that was a pre-pandemic Ben 22:34 Boston? Mike 22:35 change, Ben 22:35 Yeah. Mike 22:35 and I'm still mad. No! No! Ben 22:38 that used to be like my little Friday treat. And Mike 22:40 mm-hmm. Ben 22:40 now, economic indicator for me is how much to get three of the sausage and power wraps. plus a coffee, plus, an order of the little hash browns to stick into the tacos. anyways, you're getting a My life. this is what Zeep is doing. what are we doing now? ------ Partnerships and an Attempted Acquisition ------ 22:53 Ben 22:53 Uh, and in the process of, again, trying to build a user base, trying to get eyes on Zoop, uh, there is a fun attempted acquisition. If you remember, at the end of 2025, beautiful beloved platform TikTok, was ordered by law to, like, shift their U. S. ownership stuff, amongst the people making offers, Zoop! Zoop, uh, was made, like, a last-minute TikTok bid. this mostly just seems like PR. This mostly just seems like, hey, while this is happening, everybody look at Zoop! they don't have the money to acquire it. mostly just like, hey, our app is giving creators more of the cut. Uh, our bid for TikTok isn't just about changing ownership, it's about creating a new paradigm where both creators and their communities benefit directly from the value they collectively generate. and then it's, like, backed with, like, a blockchain thing, because of course it is. every time you just sort of, like, lift up the, the curtain of what Zoop is, it's just like, surprise, it's blockchain! but yeah, like, this is, this is, like, so funny, that they're just, like, they're sneaking in at the end of the TikTok acquisition period, but like, hey, we can do it! It's like, no, you guys couldn't. Mike 23:47 Good lord. Ben 23:48 You guys Mike 23:48 alright. Ben 23:48 are, like, you guys are, like, In companies in a trench coat, come Mike 23:52 Yeah. Ben 23:52 on. Mike 23:52 Yeah. Ben 23:54 Anyways, so, like, they've been in, in an effort to, like, build their user base, and, like, that's primarily what it seems to be, what all of these partnerships are. they've been partnering with a bunch of other things, so just a question for you. Do you know what the enhanced games are? Mike 24:08 I'll take a wild game. guess in, like, virtual reality esports? Ben 24:13 that, that feels like a reasonable guess. They, that is a, that is a growing marketplace that feels like the sort of thing where, like, Zoop would, like, attach themselves a big, hello, we're Zoop. what a great opportunity for us and you, the, the esports creators. It is not that. Zoop was the founding partner and official creator platform of the inaugural enhanced games, which happened in May of this year, or, like, a couple weeks after Eurovision. it is an elite sports competition. it is also a consumer products company. and this happened at the Resorts World in Las Vegas. it was a multi-sport event that allowed athletes to use performance-enhancing substances, like steroids and peptides, whatever the hell peptides are. Just sort of whatever, you know, substances that would come up on a drug test. basically, if you wanted to do that and then, like, run your little race, you could do that. it's founded by Aaron D'Souza, who, like, we don't have time to go into this, but was, like, part of the whole, uh, Hulk Hogan gawker, Mike 25:04 Oh. Ben 25:05 lawsuit. Yeah! So just, like, a real shining star. Mike 25:09 Okay. Ben 25:09 Uh. And great human being. Uh, this is what he's doing now. he founded it based on bodily autonomy for athletes, further alleging that, you know, the IOC maintains an exploitative relationship with competitors. It shares just sort of a, like, a, like, a creators deserve more, ethos that, tha, like, sounds well-intentioned, but when you look into it, seems deeply sinister. Mike 25:31 Uh-huh. Ben 25:31 And, and mostly self-promotional. and again, Enhanced Games is, like, primarily, uh, a platform, you know, is also, like, they sell supplements Mike 25:39 Right. Ben 25:40 in addition to having this sporting competition that took them a couple years to get off the ground. if you're asking yourself, how did the Enhanced Games go, I'm excited to tell you, not well! Mike 25:51 This Ben 25:52 is a headline from Defector. The Enhanced Games were a predictably stupid failure. like, performances were mediocre. There was, like, maybe 60 athletes tops there. Getting performances that generally would not have created a ripple in international competitions. Most of the men competing would have struggled against elite high One of the reporters, Morgan Campbell, just, like, savage. And a lot of the events were won by athletes who did not take any performance-enhancing drugs that were just there because, uh, they are correct, like, the system for competitive athletes is bad and they don't get a ton of money to generally apply their craft, as it were. Mike 26:29 Mm-hmm. Ben 26:30 Uh, so they were showing up to the Enhanced Games un-enhanced to just get that sweet, sweet prize money and generally did, which, like, good for them, get that bag. Mike 26:40 yeah, absolutely. Like, what sort of events were they doing? Ben 26:44 track and field, uh, swim, swim stuff, where they could wear the swimsuits that, that made athletes too good that they then, like, stripped back from the Olympics. but yeah, it's just, like, the times were, you know, were unimpressive. the fact that a lot of un-enhanced athletes were winning, uh, the Associated Press said forced questions about both the effectiveness of performance enhancers and the level of athletes who signed on to the league. So, just, like, you're, we're not, we're not inviting the best and brightest. from Defector, c the Enhanced Games a marketing stunt for direct-to-consumer steroids dressed up in a thin Olympic disguise. the event was a miserable failure on every front it supposedly contested, serving as neither an effective marketing stunt nor a worthwhile athletic competition. And, again, this is what Zoop is attaching its name to. Mike 27:24 Right. Ben 27:24 again, all of the non-enhanced humans kicked ass. and we're, we're literally just saying things to the press, like, I'm not here to be buddies. There's money on the line. I'm here to disrespect the field. Mike 27:33 Yeah. Like, Ben 27:34 I'm here to make a mockery of this competition. make the prize pool big enough, and you'll attack clean athletes subject to the same financial burdens related to the public's merely quadrennial interest in their sports. Mike 27:42 Mm-hmm. Ben 27:43 Uh, if those athletes go, go on and win, doesn't that prove that steroids don't really matter that much? in the end, the enhanced group's stock price, share price, has dropped by 70%. Mike 27:52 Oh, geez. Ben 27:52 Yeah, uh, and just sort of one of the reporters was just like, yeah, this isn't going to be a thing in five years. Because, uh, no, the people who care about the enhanced games don't care about the sports. Mike 28:02 yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it does sound like a venture capital thing more than anything else. Ben 28:07 It is, yeah, no, it mostly just seems, like, promotional for enhanced supplements. Mike 28:13 Right. Ben 28:14 That then, uh, got beat by all the people who can actually run. it's just very funny. And, again, this is what Zoop has attached itself to, where our, you our fearless leader, RJ Phillips, of course, released many press releases about why is Zoop doing the enhanced games? how does Zoop balance that partnership with its responsibility to users and platform safety? It's just like, hey, should you guys be attaching yourself to athletes who are actively doing steroids? the statement is just sort of a masterclass in just sort of selling, selling the brand while also kind of gliding over the, the shady parts here. is to build technology that helps creators, talent, and communities connect with their audiences in a safe, transparent, and commercially fair way. We are not in the business of acting as an unelected editorial authority over every legal subject, sport, or cultural movement that appears on the platform. Our responsibility is to operate within the law, follow applicable government standards in the markets where we operate, and design the platform in a way that protects users. again, focusing on the athletes. Many athletes, especially outside a small number of top-tier global stars, remain under-monetized despite extraordinary levels of commitment and performance. So for us, the principle is consistent. If something is lawful, compliant, and can be supported responsibly within our platform standards, our job is to provide that infrastructure, the transparency, and the user protections. Not to close off access simply because a topic is debated. sor of like the same messaging we've been getting from the Eurovision side of things about, hey, shouldn't we address that controversy? We're leaving room for debate! Mike 29:38 Yeah, I also feel like the word platform is doing a lot of heavy lifting, uh, just so that it falls into a certain, like, the same legal category that, like, Facebook and Twitter and Blue Sky all fall into for a liability purpose. Ben 29:54 Ye. Yep. Mike 29:55 Oh, jeez. Ben 29:56 also around the same time, they're now the official partner of the Eurovision Song Contest in its 70th year. they, of course, did, like, a beautiful press release there. Just, like, what is Zoop going to do for Eurovision? rather than placing major cultural moments inside a single crowded social feed, Zoop gives them their own destination through dedicated channels where fans, creators, and organizers can interact more directly around the things they care about most. For the Eurovision Song Contest, that means a dedicated space where audiences can follow the action before, during, and after the live shows. Uh, just, there's the promise of exclusive content, you can join communities, you can take part in competitions and earn rewards. I don't remember, like, any of this happening, or if it was happening, I wasn't engaging with the app because I just kept hearing the word zoop, and it would just sort of, like, whiz by me. Mike 30:40 Well, yeah, I mean, that was the thing, like, when they were, when this was first announced, I, like, did a little bit of research being like, oh, is this something that we should consider getting on, and, like, I couldn't find any information, without, downloading anything, and, uh, it's just like, I don't want to sign up for another thing, and then instantly nope out of it. It's like, no, I need the information up front, I don't need another threads situation. Ben 31:09 Yep. It's just my threads experience of just, like, logging onto threads, looking at her for five minutes, immediately deleting my account, because I'm like, nope, I don't need this. every time a missive from there, like, shows up on Blue's, kind of like, yeah, no, there's just a gas leak over there at all times. uh, speaking about the partnership, my two favorite people had this to say about it. I will handle the RJ Phillips piece, uh, while you prepare your, uh, Gilded Age voice to handle the Martin Green CBE portion of it. Mike 31:34 Okay. Ben 31:35 Uh, so RJ Phillips, very excited about the partnership between Eurovision and Zoop, says, The Eurovision Song Contest is one of the world's great cultural events, and events like that deserve more than a place inside a crowded feed. They deserve their own destination where fans, creators, and organizers can come together through participation, community, and ongoing interaction. That is exactly what Zoop's channel's model has decided to do. We believe the biggest cultural moments in the world should have their own social experience, not just a momentary presence inside somebody else's platform. adding into the excitement about Zoop, Martin Green said, Mike 32:07 We're delighted to welcome Zoop as a sponsor of the Eurovision Song Contest 2026. The contest has always been about bringing people together through innovation, creativity, and shared experiences, and Zoop embodies the, those same values. Their forward-thinking approach and ability to connect audiences in meaningful, modern ways make them a natural fit for the contest. As we continue to evolve the Eurovision Song Contest for new generations, partnerships like this help us keep this show vibrant, relevant, and truly global. Ben 32:50 Uh, just like, what is a weekend? so again, just sort of two masters of issuing a press release about the brand, just like collabing, I believe as the internet says, maximizing their joint slay. Mike 33:02 Sure. Uh. Ben 33:06 RJ Phillips is just like, so like the old CEO of the company where I currently work, also seems to be very good at this, at a point, just realize that at a certain point, if you are a CEO of a company like this, where you have to constantly sell the brand for a while, you just get sort of CEO brain. but like also, a lot of this is just to get people onto their platform by any means necessary. because like, currently, the other thing I've gotten an email about is they're, t running a contest to be the official warm-up act at the Eurovision Song Contest Asia. Mike 33:35 Oh yeah, I saw, I saw that. Ben 33:37 Yeah. Uh, the winner gets an all-expenses-paid trip to Bangkok, uh, $10, 000 USD, and the, the opportunity to perform, the opportunity to perform. Not a guarantee, the opportunity. Also, you were the warm-up act. I assume that means you were not getting televised. I don't think that's like one of the, one of the interval things. I assume it's just sort of like when I was in Liverpool, the people just sort of like getting the crowd going. and like the way to do this is to, you, you, you join Zoop, step one, you enter the competition, you rally your community to climb the leaderboard. And then like the top five artists advance to a jury to make sure that the winner is not me doing, doing, uh, today via armpit farts. Mike 34:18 this reminds me of a, uhm, I think this was around the third or fourth season of RuPaul's Drag Race, uh, oh, yeah, I think they were rebroadcasting the, uh, first season of the show, and Logo had a contest to, uh, design an ad, like, they would provide assets, and then you created a 30-second spot, yeah, it was the same sort of thing, it's like, upload it to Logo.com or whatever it was, and then get all your friends to vote for it on Facebook, and then they ended up cancelling the contest, because there were only, like, four viable entries, s, uh, and nobody was voting Ben 34:52 Yeah. Mike 34:52 besides, Ben 34:52 Yeah. Mike 34:53 uh, Ben 34:53 Again, I'm just like, Mike 34:54 so. Ben 34:54 okay, but, like, who is entering this contest? Mike 34:56 Mm-hmm. Ben 34:57 Uh, just, like, your community can take you there, every verified person who joins Zoop through your personal voting link counts as one vote, and more importantly, is one more user in Zoop. Uh, already on Zoop, open the app and tap, perform at Eurovision Asia, and win 10k to enter. I have not joined the race to Bangkok. not yet, anyways. Uh, but ------ The Zoop Experience S44 ------ 35:15 Ben 35:15 I, I thought it was important, because I've been showing a lot of the emails I've been getting, to just sort of give you the full Zoop experience. so here is the particularly experimental part of this. We're gonna 10 minutes of me doing Zoop on my phone. like, you need to see what Zoop is. So I learned how to tape my phone. Mike 41:02 Good lord. Ben 41:03 Yeah, yeah. So what were your takeaways from your Zoop experience? Mike 41:09 So I don't do TikTok. So I don't do TikTok. I've never Ben 41:12 TikTok. Mike 41:12 downloaded Ben 41:13 Okay, good. Oh, that was going to be one of my questions. Are you a TikTok person? Because I am also not a TikTok person, which may be why I'm ill-equipped to engage with Zoop. Mike 41:22 I mean, it's reminding me a lot of YouTube shorts and Instagram reels, stories, Instagram reels, stories, al of Instagram's video content stuff. I mean, one of the things that I noticed was there were repeats of videos coming up pretty quickly. And again, you weren't following anybody. You didn't have any followers. So that could just be a very limited algorithm. I do want to hang out with the lady who was talking about not stabbing people. Ben 41:54 That was one of the ones, though, where once I saw her the second time, I'm like, I think this might be AI-generated content. Mike 41:59 Okay. Ben 42:00 Where the couple times you see me pausing and scrubbing back, it's because I'm trying to make sure that that AI filter is turned on. Because there's a thing you can press to filter out AI-generated content, but it also doesn't seem to do this job. Mike 42:15 Right. Yeah. Because there were definitely some things in there where it's like, I don't know what's going on here, but this seems very AI. I don't know who the audience is. And some of this content is stuff I have seen other places. So, like, I'm talking about the Eurovision-specific content. So, like, they are sharing it elsewhere. It's not as exclusive as they are claiming it to be. Although, the stuff that may be exclusive, isn't that interesting? Like, we don't need to see the sound guy plugging in cables on the stage. Like, th not... I don't find that particular content interesting. Ben 42:51 Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, like, let's dive into... I've sort of, like, pulled screenshots from this of a bunch of stuff. So, like, the Eurovision Asia content that we do have on there. We have stuff like the performances from Bangladesh. But, like, they're all vertical video being slammed into... Not vertical. They're not... They're horizontal video being slammed into a vertical video format without, like, any attempt to, like, fill your entire screen. It's very small compared to all of the front-facing camera stuff. We have Babak Golkar, who seems to be doing some level of event running for... We see him chatting with the host of Vietnam. We see him backstage Uh, just sort of, like, helping run the show. that falls under the same kind of, of, like, okay, this is neat, and it's, like, actually formatted for this site, but, like, is it interesting? I don't know. and then you also just have, like, weird cameo-level videos from, like, Engelbert Humperdinck for some reason. Mike 43:41 Yeah, that one was really weird, and that, that is one of the videos that I've seen elsewhere. Ben 43:46 Mm-hmm. Mike 43:46 Like, cause, it's been him, um, Alice from Albania, uh, was also in that montage, but, like, Blanka from Poland, uh, did one a few weeks ago, I, I, I can't remember for which contest, but, yeah, like, they're tapping into alumni to give, like, their messages of hope. Ben 44:04 Mm-hmm. Mike 44:05 The, Asian contestants. Ben 44:07 like, I think specifically the stuff for the Eurovision Asia channel provided by Eurovision Asia is not meant to be, or at least this stuff is not meant to be, exclusive to those platforms. It's the sort of thing that you, that you send to your Instagram, that you send to your YouTube channel for shorts, that you send to TikTok, because it's the engagement you want to generate with the audience. Uh, but, like, the exclusive content we do get on Zoop is the stuff that you called out, is just sort of the, here's the sound guy plugging in the wires, here's the guy warming up the crowd, here's a shot of the songwriters singing over here on this platform. this, this is the stuff that you should put in your Instagram story, and even there, it's not that interesting. This is the stuff that, like, it's all shots that, like, when I Google specific Eurovision entries and I find one that was somebody shooting in the, shooting video in the crowd from their phone, where I'm just like, okay, this isn't, this isn't what I wanted. Mike 44:57 Right, exactly. Yeah, because it is all going to be that phone quality. Ben 45:01 Yeah, it's, it's phone quality video. It's not, it's just, it's not, it is exclusive, it's just not interesting. in terms of other content, we have the contest stuff as a pop-up, uh, we have more stuff that is not exclusive to the platform. The channel itself is just sort of a weird mixture of stuff. They claim that there's 19.2 thousand followers, but that doesn't feel like a lot. the other thing I noticed that I captured in a few places, nobody's commenting on it over here, over on Zoop. Or if they are, it's like one person commenting hard eyes, one person named Poop. Mike 45:32 Yes, with three O's. Ben 45:34 With three O's. Let's be classy here, three O's. just, nobody is engaging with the content on Zoop. Mike 45:42 like the commentary content, it's the same sort of like TikTok aesthetic, where it's somebody like kind of green screening themselves, and it's just like a floating head. That's one of the reasons why I don't do TikTok, because I hate that TikTok. Ben 45:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's like you, we have like a few creators. We have, uh, All Things Adam, and we have World Vision, Vishon, uh, who seem to be cross-posting their content that they're doing on TikTok, Instagram, etc. here as well. Uh, both of them have about 200-ish followers. That, that, that seems to be the maximum engagement that, that's happening on Zoop. If I'm, if I am reading the T, it'll look like, who is actively engaging with the content that is actively being posted on this app? Mike 46:22 Yeah, and, uh, and they're both following only 10 or 12 accounts. Ben 46:27 Yeah, it's just like, the creators are not following people back. How are they supposed to get their Zoopies? but yeah, uh, and like, but like, just sort of going down the rabbit hole, like, okay, but like, how much of an audience is this compared to their other places? Because this feels tertiary. This feels like, okay, yeah, sure, I guess throw this in the pile. Because, like, All Things Adam, uh, has, like, close to 500,000 followers on TikTok. Mike 46:49 Oh, wow. Ben 46:50 I believe I saw his name in the list of the people that were part of the, like, at Eurovision, uh, Zoop had, like, a content creator house, and he was one of the people there. Which is why when I saw him pop up here, I grabbed some stuff from him, but yeah, he has, like, Just under 3,000 subscribers on YouTube. That doesn't seem to be his primary platform. Uh, he has close to 50,000 followers on Instagram as well. So just, like, yeah, this one's supposed to pay more, but nobody's on it, so you're gonna just keep posting to the places that are gonna theoretically give you that cut. Uh, similarly, uh, Sean, or WorldVizSean, has more, uh, YouTube subscribers, has, like, 64,000 YouTube subscribers. Uh,303.7 thousand TikTok followers. So just, again, there is an audience for that front-facing video content. You and I are deeply allergic to it. That's why we are here in podcast land and not even video podcast land. Mike 47:46 also, if this is a platform that is going to be paying you in some way, you would think that you would try to convert some of the followers that you already have to be like, hey, I'm on this platform. Check out this stuff here, even if it is, like, cross-posting stuff. Because, I mean, we do cross-posting all the time. Like, the, what we post on BlueSky is very similar to what we host on Tumblr. Yes, we're on Tumblr. And, uh, and on Instagram and on Facebook and stuff. it seems like they're doing the bare minimum on this other platform. Ben 48:19 Yeah, it's like, there's just sort of, like, dipping a toe in the, in the water, but just, like, the water isn't fine. So, minimum engagement with the water. the rest of the content on there is just kind of TikTok-level chum. Just, like, a lot of workout-y content, which makes sense with the enhanced games. We see a lot of, a lot of stuff about the supplements and the trying stuff. We have that lady talking about adulting and not killing people. Um, we have somebody just, like, this, and nobody telling me I'm ruining my car as they, like, uh, use a marker to dye the stitching on their seats pink. Uh, something about the color of the water in the Amazon River. Just, again, just, like, a lot of chum. I think part of this is just, like, we don't have an algorithm, which means that your algorithm is not learning what I want to see, which means that you're showing me, like, the, th same five videos you have. the user experience side of things. Again, invite creators, get 5% of their revenue. Uh, you can vote what you want the Zoopies to go towards, whether that's the broad category of activities. Uh, travel, food and drink, entertainment, wellness, learning, etc. Uh, various things you can do to earn Zoopies, such as follow five new creators. Uh, there's also just, sort of, like, a random little slot machine thingy that gave me 80 Zoopies. Mike 49:30 Oh, congrats. Ben 49:31 it's just, like, I, I don't know if Mike 49:32 Don't Ben 49:32 that Mike 49:32 spend Ben 49:32 was, Mike 49:32 them all in Ben 49:32 yeah, don't spend them all in one Mike 49:33 one Ben 49:34 place. Um, but, yeah, no, just, like, a lot, just, like, that, it has, like, that AI filter that doesn't quite work. But, yeah, no, you, you, you caught onto a few of the things I noticed, just, like, okay, but just, like, if the whole point of the platform is that somehow they're fan engagement, question mark,then, like, you are I am reliant on getting users in the platform, I just sort of, like, googled around looking for any sort of social engagement about Zoop as a platform and found one beautiful tweet. Girl, nobody is downloading Zoop, just stop. Mike 50:06 place. Yeah, Ben 50:07 From September 23rd of this year. Mike 50:10 Uh, Ben 50:13 which I have paired with the, the image of Brandy from Total Request trying to, pointing out, but we need the audience to buy the album. Mike 50:21 Yeah. Ben 50:23 It's, like, we need the users to download and engage with Zoop. they're not doing it. After I'm done recording this program, I'm getting it off my phone. I don't like it. Mike 50:31 Yeah. Ben 50:31 Um. Mike 50:31 I'm, I'm really, uh, concerned about your data right now. Um. Ben 50:36 I mean, it's fine. It's, it's in, like, 17 other places at this point. Thanks, Dark Web. Uh, but, but, yeah, just, like, there's, there's this notion that Zoop has a sentiment index to see how fans are engaging with content. But that only really matters, and they seem to know this. Like, I found an interview someplace else, and I forgot to, to clip it, where they're just, like, yeah, yeah, like, we're not expecting it to be, like, people's main platform, but it's, like, a way for them to get engagement. Like, okay, but if it's not there, but if they're posting in the three other places, why are they going to post on your fourth one? Uh, and they're just, like, yeah, we have a sentiment index, and we're using AI to analyze how fans are engaging with content. But they also are just, like, yeah, but that depends on whether Zoop's user base grows large enough and generates enough verified activity to produce insights that brands and creators consider valuable. Philips acknowledges that the platform is still early in its development. It did, like, it did this early launch of its current phase in, like, April of this year. it's somehow valued at $500 million pre-launch, I don't know how. Uh, they got, like, a $15 million seed round years ago, they're very focused on, like, inflating their user numbers, which is obviously so that investors see that, no, people are using the platform, this is valuable, you should keep giving us money. I just kind of circle back to my, my questions from many years ago when I was a young software engineer learning my, learning my trade of just like, okay, but, like, how is this something new? how does this make reliabl? and here we are, and I don't know. Mike 51:57 Yeah. Ben 52:00 and again, to quote, uh, Tasan Khan, Zoop got you covered. Don't miss this opportunity. Mike 52:06 He's not going to get many Zoopies. Uh, Ben 52:08 no, no, no, his engagement is very bad. He's not going to get a lot of Zoopies. Um, anyways, congratulations. We now too much about Zoop. I don't know. It's just like, I came, like, at the end of this, I have more questions, and I don't want the answers to any of them. Mike 52:24 but just think, your clout score on, about Zoop is going to be, at least in the high age. Ben 52:29 Yeah, yeah, but if nothing else, I can just sort of let people on LinkedIn know that I'm an expert in Zoop. That's going to do it for this episode of the Eurowat. Thanks for listening. The Eurowat podcast is hosted by Ben Smith, that's me, and Mike McComb. Mike 52:43 That's me. You can find our full archive of episodes on our website at Eurowat.com. For even more content, join our Patreon. Free members get access to our newsletter, and paid supporters get our bonus Eurowat AV Club podcast every month. Go to patreon.com slash Eurowat for more info. Ben 53:01 Next time on the Eurowat, we discuss the new book from Lindsay Weber and Bobby Finger of Who Weekly, I Want to Be Famous.