00:01.94 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Welcome to the ModGolf Podcast, where we speak with the entrepreneurs, the innovators, the disruptors, and the influencers who are shaping the future of golf. I am your host, Colin Weston. And today, for our final episode of Season 19, I have an absolute icon, a legend in sports broadcasting and journalism. I am so lucky to have this gentleman on the show today and that is Mr Jimmy Roberts who is a sixteen time Emmy award-winning broadcaster journalist author and one of the most respected storytellers in all of sport. Jimmy is also the co-founder of Big Swing Media, and we're going to dive into that. I'm just going to leave it at that for now. So he's doing all kinds of interesting things and has many done many interesting things in the sport and golf media space, and I am very excited to have him on today. So with that, Jimmy Roberts, welcome to the ModGolf Podcast. 00:58.46 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Thanks, Colin. It's a pleasure to be with you. 01:01.11 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Now I want to start here, Jimmy, because I don't know too much about you since this is the first time we've had a conversation, but I always love to ask this icebreaker question with all of my guests, whether they're PGA Tour pros or people that are on the periphery of the golf industry and your passion for golf. I'm assuming you're a player. I don't know what your handicap is, but I want to ask you this question. 01:22.33 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast When did you first get introduced to golf? Who was that person that put a golf club in your hand and share with us your first amazing golf memory that got you hooked on the game? 01:32.70 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well, i've been playing my whole life and my parents got me started in the game. They both played. And so I took it up and I never was very good. I mean, I think at my best, I've been a nine something. I'm just right now, probably around an 11. I'm comfortably somewhere in the 80s. That's pretty much my game. But I love the game and I always say that the things about it that make it a wonderful game are primarily three things. 02:12.15 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media First, golf courses are generally beautiful places and it's hard to beat the idea of spending a few hours walking around a beautiful place. Second, It's an opportunity to spend time with people, whether that's people that you love or just plain good friends or maybe an opportunity to make new friends. It's a way to connect with people. And at its heart, I think that the thing that always kind of provided the biggest attraction for me was that it's a game. And I felt like no matter how old I am, always going to be a kid. 02:54.01 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And I like playing games. And this is a fun one to challenge myself every time I go out there. And it's a game that I love. And sometimes it doesn't love me back. But I don't know that I could pinpoint one kind of earliest memory. But I've been playing my whole life. And I've had my ups and downs like everybody else, but I think it's a great game. 03:03.21 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Hmm. As do I, as do I, well, myself as a middle handicapper, I've managed to grind it down to a 12 by putting in some work. So, I guess if you and I play, we don't have to give each other strokes. It's we can go toe to toe head up in a match play death match there. 03:10.78 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media That'd be fine with me. 03:11.50 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast There we go. So I understand you went to University of Maryland, degree in communications. So i want to keep going with your origin story here as far as how you got to the level you are with NBC Sports, all the great experience you've had, the opportunities covering the Masters, covering the US Open, covering the Ryder Cup, just in golf and so many other sports. So what was your first big break in broadcasting media when you came out of school? Tell us about that, the early years of that that break and maybe share a story with us of the first big interview that you look back on fondly that kind of took you to the next level. 03:43.96 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well i had gone to Maryland originally for two reasons. I had a girlfriend who went to a nearby university. She went to American University and I thought it'd be great to be near her. And the other reason was that I was a pretty decent high school lacrosse player. And I had gotten a couple of letters from the University of Maryland and swelled my ego a little bit since they were the defending national champion. And I had deluded myself into believing that the amount of interest they showed meant that I could play there. 04:11.33 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And, long story short, I got there and I broke up with the girl and got cut from the team. So here I was at the University of Maryland, and I was fortunate that I still wanted to be connected to the sport. So i ended up broadcasting the sport on the radio. I was the colour commentator that year and they went back to the championship game. Only this year the difference was that it was broadcast nationally for the first time ever lacrosse on a show that doesn't exist any longer you might remember it wide world of sports and i was a pretty brazen young man then and didn't know what i didn't know and so i just called up the main office of Wide World of Sports unsolicited cold called them and said, "hey, I know you're going to be broadcasting this sport. And back then it was really an obscure sport and I can help you." 04:57.72 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Right. 05:00.06 jimmy And I pestered them and pestered them and still remember the phone number, two one two LT17777. 05:08.92 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast wow 05:19.24 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media the producer was a guy named Ned Steckle. He's not alive any longer, but he was a legendary producer of Why World of Sports. And I finally pestered him enough that he said, "oh, just leave me alone and call my production assistant." 05:33.83 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media So I did. called his production assistant. The production assistant hired me to come and work on the championship game, which was Maryland versus Cornell. it was played at Brown University. I think the date was May tenth 10th, 1976. And I went up there and I sat in the truck and I helped them kind of understand what was gonna happen next and what the rules were. And it was fabulous. I didn't realize, but there was a whole system in place where you could work as what they called a gopher or a runner. 06:06.58 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast All right. Mm-hmm. 06:07.80 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And I did. It's exactly what I did. And kind of throughout college, every now and again, I'd come back and work for them on various events. And then I was waiting tables the summer after my senior year, after I had graduated, and I didn't really know what I was going to do next. And I decided I'd give a run at trying to go work for ABC Sports. So I called up the one fellow who was still there, who had been there all the years ago when I had first gotten involved, and he invited me to come up to work on the U.S. Women's Open, which was at Brookline Country Club in Fairfield, Connecticut, which wasn't far from where I grew up. 06:51.45 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Yes. 06:53.91 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And from that point forward, I worked more and more events and finally got hired to work the Olympics in Lake Placid in 1980. And so I did that and ended up working at ABC Sports and ABC News for eight years and, but behind the camera and then eventually writing and producing a lot of content for lot of some of the bigger names. I worked for Howard Cosell for a couple of years on a show that he had. And I was afraid that they were going to eliminate my job, had to try and figure out what I might do. And I figured, well, I'm writing and producing for everybody else. I should be able to do that for myself. So I made some audition tapes, sent them out, got a lot of nasty rejection notices. And the only place that was willing to give me an opportunity to try was this kind of obscure little cable operation in the backwoods of Connecticut, ESPN. So I went to ESPN in 1988, having no experience in front of the camera, and kind of learning on the job. 07:31.70 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Mm-hmm. 07:32.02 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media I like to say that if there was such a thing as YouTube back then, I'd probably be either waiting tables or selling insurance right now because there'd be evidence of my incompetence. And um I don't know how far I would have gotten, but I was really fortunate. I got to kind of learn on the job and make a lot of mistakes and obscurity and work with some great people. And I was at a ESPN at a time that was really kind of a golden age for ESPN, 1988 to 2000, when it just exploded and became a cultural institution. And it was great experience for me. So that's how I got started. came to Got hired by NBC in 2000 and then started doing you know all sorts of things there. But when I was at ESPN, I covered every sport there was. And football, basketball, baseball, everything. So that's my backstory. 8:10.65 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Love this. Love this. I love, well, you put a lot of great, great things out there, Jimmy. And I've spoken to a lot of entrepreneurs, myself as a four-time founder too with Ventures in the Golf and the Sports Space. I have learned over time that there is no perfect, that you just have to put yourself out there and learn as you go. 8:29.96 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Shoot-ready-aim type of a approach sometimes that you just have to figure it out on the fly and those people that do wait for perfection which doesn't exist will still be waiting. so I've also heard this one that I don't know if it was Malcolm Gladwell or where I heard this one, but if you don't look back and whatever you're doing from years earlier and kind of wince at it that means that you you haven't improved. And that also means that you started too late. So the fact you jumped in and a away you go. So I want to keep moving forward with the trajectory of your career, and especially the focus with golf. So with NBC, yeah you had mentioned earlier with ABC and ESPN that you were doing all sporting events and some golf events. So when did you start to focus in on golf? I realize you also cover the Super Bowl, Kentucky Derby, Wimbledon, so many more. But let's just focus on golf here with you're doing here before we get into Big Swing Media. So tell us a little bit about that. What was the first big tournament or maybe the first time you ever went to the Masters? What was that like? 8:42.73 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well, I guess the genesis of my involvement with golf was when I had been at ABC Sports in production, I had worked on our golf telecasts. And so I had some familiarity with it. 8:50.58 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And in the early 1990s, I looked around and I noticed that you know people were kind of claiming their beats at ESPN. And I figured, there were people who specialized in football and basketball and baseball. And I kind of covered it all. But I figured it would be great to plant a flag in something and specialize because I thought it gave you more value. So I suggest golf because I knew some people in golf and I was familiar with covering or not, being around golf. And so grudgingly, they said yes. And then, lo and behold, before I knew it, Tiger Woods showed up, and then it became a big deal. 9:39.96 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast yes 10:02.33 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media But you talk about the first time going to the Masters. I have very fond memories. That was for me 1991. I remember showing up at the Masters and feeling totally overwhelmed. The Masters is such a legendary sporting event and not an easy thing to kind of get into, get a credential for. And I showed up at the Masters and the gathering point for the Masters is there's a big oak tree out in back of the clubhouse. It's where everybody gathers and all the media and bunch of the people who are the cognoscenti of the golf world. And I'm wandering around. I don't really know anybody. And then who do I run into but Dave Marr, the 1964 PGA champion who had been our expert commentator at ABC Sports for so many years and a wonderful man and a dear friend of mine. 10:48.74 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And when I saw him there, I felt such enormous relief because I finally felt not only did I have somebody to talk to, but Dave Marr was a pretty big deal. All I needed to do was hang around Dave, catching the crumbs from being around him, had no doubt I would come away with some pretty good experiences. And there we are, Dave and myself chatting underneath the oak tree at Augusta in 1991 and who walks over but Byron Nelson. Dave's a Texan, Byron was a Texan. And he comes over to engage Byron and conversation and I'm sitting there, it's the three of us talking and I'm figuring, what am I gonna add to this conversation? I'm kind of in awe. 11:26.55 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And Dave turns to Byron as, you know, this would have been typical Dave and he says to him, "Byron, you know Jimmy Roberts, don't you? This fine young golf broadcaster." And Byron looks at me and Dave obviously put him in a situation where he's going to say, no, I don't believe I do. And I'll never forget um Nelson looking at me and was saying, "well, sure, of course I do!" 11:44.54 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Nice. 11:49.21 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And there was no way he had any idea who I was, but that's more a story about who Dave Marr was rather than the moment. But it was a great moment for me. I think back on it fondly and I miss Dave. He was a great, great man, but that was my first Masters, 1991. Ian Woosnam won. He beat Tom Watson down the stretch. I've been fortunate to have attended, I don't know, 25 Masters, something like that. But it never gets old. It's a great place. 12:30.60 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast So you've been to 25 Masters. So I have to ask you this because of my understanding, although I've never been to the Masters. Who knows? Maybe with ModGolf one day, I'll be as fortunate as you with the first time you went there back in the day. But I understand there is a lottery for to play around for the media on Monday and they give out, I don't know if it's one group of four or eight and it's almost like a 3% chance to actually get it. Have you ever won that lottery? Have you ever played that Monday? 12:49.18 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Not only have I played that Monday, but I played that Monday that first year and have a great system there. 12:53.37 The ModGolf Podcast No way! 12:55.78 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media So they do have a lottery and it's more than a couple of people, they fill up the golf course. So I don't know what the number is of how many people in the media win the lottery, but it's a bunch. And they have a great system whereby if you have won the lottery before you are not eligible for another 10 or 12 or 15 years or something. So what happens is people get a chance to play and I got a chance my first year and was thrilling. 13:25.98 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Wow. So and I'm assuming you've played it several times since then, not just on the Monday? 13:34.08 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media I have had the good fortune of having played there a number of times, yes. 13:38.20 The ModGolf Podcast And from what I understand, you don't see this on television, how incredibly undulating the course is, how much elevation change there is. What other things can you tell us? So amplify that a little bit. Things that on TV that we cannot see that if you're there in person that are bigger than life, that you think they're going to be this and they that and so much more. 14:01.88 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well, first of all, I think the one thing that's most obvious that you can see is the immaculate condition of it. It's just perfect. And from tee to green, I didn't find it to be such a hard course. Of course, the real challenge of Augusta National is the greens. 14:31.06 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Mm-hmm. 14:31.43 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And that is a challenge. And the drop from the highest point on the course is the 10th tee and the first tee. and then down to the lowest point, which is Amen Corner, I think it's, I'm forgetting the number. I'm not even gonna hazard a guess, but it's dramatic. You are walking down a long hill. of The 10th hole is a serious downhill walk. The 11th hole is a pretty serious downhill walk. By the time you get down to Amen Corner, I think it's a couple hundred feet drop, but the biggest difference is you don't see the change in elevation on television, or there's no really sense of the change of elevation. 15:17.94 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media and everything there is so purposeful that everything they do is for a reason. And the stories of how they keep very close watch on the cost of concessions. And so the experience is amazing, there's no charge for parking. It's a very hospitable experience for patrons as they call them. And it's memorable. It's just a great way to spend a day. I've worked for Augusta National now for I don't know, 12 or 13 years, I lost track. I do the masters.com, which is their great digital product. I do a lot of work for them. 16:03.54 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Yes. 16:05.33 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And here's the way that they are most unique. There's no place else that I've ever been to or worked for or worked with where the topic of cost doesn't come up. We're all business people but these people the first question is not how much it's always how do we make this the best it can be. I do think that masters.com is such an extraordinary experience. Others have come and tried to learn copy from it. Each member at Augusta National is tasked with working on a committee and the head of the digital committee just happens to be Brian Roberts, who's the chairman of Comcast. And he's been my boss for many, many years in my daytime job. Well, he's a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to communications. And all these people are totally committed to making this thing be the best it can be. And it's really it grows every year and evolves in ways that's really impressive that It's all they care about is how can they make the user experience better. 16:22.65 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Well, I've had the pleasure of using the app and the platform and it is unique. And as you said, how can we make this the best in class that's out there? And they certainly do that. So I want to switch gears a little bit here and talk about storytelling. I was hoping that you can share your process of how you go about researching stories, finding stories, and then putting them together because I know storytelling is at the heart and the essence of who you are as a journalist and a broadcaster. So maybe you can share that with us if that's possible. So myself and lots of friends and peers in the media space here doing what I'm doing, whether it's on YouTube or with podcasting or on social media. And a lot of them lose track that you're trying to tell a story. You need to tell a story. It's not just information that you're putting out there. So, Jimmy, could you share with us what you consider your unique process or how you approach storytelling? 16:42.65 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media You know, Colin, I'm not really sure, to be honest. I think it's just my nature, I'm a curious person. And I think that that's pretty much always been at the heart of how I go about what I do. I'm just curious. And I think that, first of all everybody's got a story. I'll give you a perfect example. You can't see this right now, but over my shoulder, I wrote a book a couple of years ago with Mark Messier, he's a Hall of Fame hockey player. His numbers speak for themselves. 17:07.17 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Mm-hmm. 17:09.14 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media But the story of his life is what makes him a compelling figure. Yes, he's won six Stanley Cups. Yes, he's captained two different teams to a Stanley Cup, but it's how he became who he is that makes him compelling. If you go back to the very beginning of sports television, a guy named Rune Arledge at ABC Sports, he created this product. It was an element in his shows that were called Up Close and Personals. And people use that term all the time now, up close and personal. We're going to get up close and in personal with somebody. I'd imagine most people don't know where it came from. Up close and personals were small features that were constructed for ABC sports coverage of the Olympic Games back in the early 1960s when they were going to be televising a lot of athletes that people had never heard of. 18:07.35 jimmy And so the idea was to not only educate people, but help them care about these people, learn about them so that they would care about them. And that's the heart of storytelling, is educate people and give them a reason to care. Give them a reason to identify, give them reason to root. I have never been in my life a stats guy. I've always been a stories guy. It's just it interests me more and I connect more. The other thing is that everybody can connect with a story. And yeah, everybody's got to pay the rent somehow. 18:51.18 jimmy I'm just fortunate that I fell into this and I have an aptitude for it and I really enjoy it. And my wife says that I don't talk to people. I interview them when we go out. I'm just curious. And I think that if I was going to make a recommendation to anybody who was getting involved in the industry or wanted to concentrate on storytelling, it's just be curious, ask more questions than, what is it they say? God gave us two ears and one mouth. With the exception of this podcast where you're interviewing me, I try and put that to good use. 18:53.27 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Right, right. Well, what you just mentioned there, those character traits of curiosity, observation, empathy, not only ties in into being able to be a good storyteller, but it also ties in to being a successful entrepreneur. So I'd like to bridge the previous answer you gave in the conversation here. Fast forward a little bit because we can talk for hours and hours here with everything that you've done so far in your 40 plus year career to come up to date with Big Swing Media. So I'd love to hear how that formed and with Fred Bucher, who is your co-founder. So put the pieces together for us here, Jimmy, that with The Big Swing with Jimmy Roberts as a podcast on YouTube and also with the Golf Channel and how that folds into Big Swing Media. so So yeah, give us an overview there of those things that I put out there. 19:28.31 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media So a few years ago, a friend of mine, her son and one of my sons were teammates on the high school basketball team. And she had been in the communications industry. And we used to talk about a lot of things. one day she said to me, "Hey, I got somebody I'd like you to meet. think you guys would like each other." And she introduced me to Fred Bucher, who's now become my business partner. And we just chatted at first about the industry, and I don't think we had an idea of what we could do together. We were looking to try and figure out if there was something we could do together. And I stumbled across this odd fact, which is that there are more golf courses in the United States than there are McDonald's restaurants. And I found that to be just barely believable. 20:35.95 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Uh-huh. 20:36.34 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And everybody who I've shared that with, the initial reaction seems to be the same, which is, "no, that can't be." But the point is that it speaks of an industry that's really a lot larger than we thought. So then dug a little deeper and realized that it's about a quarter of a trillion dollars a year in terms of global economic impact. That, at least in terms of the United States, a third of the population is what they call engaged with the game. That means they either play, they watch, they read about, they're interested in. 21:12.63 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Yes. 21:18.31 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media That's a lot of people. It's 130 million people. So we started trying to figure out where we could learn more. And we were interested, were shocked to learn that there really weren't too many resources, not enough. And that told us that, okay, that's an opportunity. So we decided to create a company where we talk about this enormous industry that affects 130 million Americans, certainly, hundreds of millions of more people worldwide, Everything from fashion, manufacturing, um travel and leisure, hospitality, technology. There are so many things. And there just never seems to be any end to the conversations that we can have with people. We've had some really interesting folks on so far. Just as we sit here recording this, the most recent episode was with Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta Airlines. They've made an enormous investment in golf, but we've also had Tom Friedman, the Pulitzer Prize winning author from the New York Times who specializes in the Middle East to talk about live golf. Tom's an avid golfer himself. We've had Jack Nicklaus on. We had Greg Norman on at the beginning when we were talking about LIV We had the actor and director Ed Burns, who's making a new golf movie. 21:51.70 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media We had him on. We've had all sorts of people. Steph Curry was on. Steph Curry's an interesting guy. People obviously know him from basketball, but Steph has been a passionate golfer his whole life and as a high school student, was the captain of his golf team and is now looking towards starting businesses post basketball that are going to be heavily heavily involved in golf. So lots of conversations. It's been interesting. We have as you mentioned, a podcast, which is The Big Swing with Jimmy Roberts on YouTube. We also have a show, a linear television show, same name, which is on Golf Channel on Tuesdays. We author what we call our Golf Business Intelligence Briefing, which is what some people might call a newsletter. It's out twice a week. We've done some live conferences and produced a golf tournament for the Veteran Golfers Association. So it's a digital media company and we'd like to think we have our fingers in a lot of different things, but primarily it's about the business of golf and all the different things and ways it manifests. 22:13.30 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast I love this. And in certain elements there, you are doing exactly what I've been loving and doing with ModGolf for the last nine years or so. And the type of stories that I love to tell here, you have the ability just through your pedigree to have access to people that I can only dream of. So it's not like we're competing against each other. And I just love this, that it is such a world of abundance in golf. Like you said, a quarter trillion dollars a year business globally over a hundred billion dollars a year in the US alone and it is expanding it continues to do that and a lot of it is due to that growth to new audiences. Whether that's through what Topgolf has done what's going on with TGL what's going on with YouTube content creators and with Steph curry who I'd love to double down and ask you a little bit about that. Because i know when you and i were trying to get together a couple weeks ago to record this podcast episode, you were just ready to head to the American Century Championship. So let's focus on that. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and how you see that event expanding and how that's reaching a new golf audience and also a traditional one? 22:49.49 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well, the American Century Championship has been around for 37 years now. American Century's been the title sponsor for 28 years. It's an event that was created by NBC Sports. But it was really a pioneer in the space of kind of celebrity golf. And it speaks to the fact that, you know lots of different people play golf. So many people play golf, actors, athletes, musicians. And it's always a lot of fun to go there. I've been broadcasting that event for 22, 23 years, something like that. 23:10.47 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Yes. 23:11.96 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And the episode that we had Steph Curry on, we also had Jonathan Thomas, who's the chair and president and CEO of American Century to talk about how golf folds into their business plans. And one of the things he told me, which is kind of mind boggling to me, is that they committed 90% of their discretional marketing budget to this one event. And it has probably over-performed. It's a hell of a gamble to make that kind of commitment, but it's really gotten them an awful lot of attention. And the event just keeps getting better and better every year. People love it. It does great things for the community. And as far as American Century is concerned, They have a remarkable model. So it's a financial services company and it was started by two people, by a man named Jim Stowers and he and his wife, Virginia, both cancer survivors. And so they started a medical research institute called the Stowers Center for Medical Research. And what they did was Jim Stowers donated all of his stock upon retirement to the Stowers Institute. So that means that now we're at the point where 40%, which is what the stock that he owned, 40% of American Century, 40% American Century's profits go to the Stowers Institute. 23:53.82 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Wow. 23:54.30 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And as we speak now, it's over $2 billion dollars and committed to medical research for gene-based diseases. And it's really kind of a remarkable model. And they've done well, but they've also done good. 24:11.87 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Mm-hmm. Speaking of celebrities that are not necessarily aligned with golf and athletes also, I know with Justin Timberlake that he's an avid golfer too. And i believe he's involved. You had Hoyt McGarity with 8DM Golf on a little while ago also. 24:27.86 jimmy Yep. 24:30.65 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast And Justin's involved with them, at an investor level and helping them with their par three activations also with some kind of fun entertainment based nighttime type of course layout. So, love to hear as far as some other celebrities that you see are really helping to grow the game. Perhaps even with YouTube, I know these collaborations with Bob Does Sports, they had LeBron James on who had just picked up a golf club and had no problem being out there as someone that is, I wouldn't say he's as, as the golf swing's as janky as Charles Barkley was when he first started out, but LeBron's out there and probably not able to break 100 in doing that. And the views on that were two, three, four million. So where do you see this connectivity of celebrity and investors and entrepreneurship propelling golf forward to unlock new markets, new fans, but also at the same time still appealing to and embracing the old guard and the traditional fans that have loved golf for so long? 25:01.77 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media The thing about golf is that it's unlike other sports. I guess tennis would be the closest parallel, maybe something like skiing, but we not only watch it, we watch Scotty Scheffler, we watch Bryson DeChambeau, we watch Rory McIlroy, we watch Nelly Korda, we watch Brooke Henderson, but we play it. 25:15.28 jimmy And that's unique. And they always say that athletes want to be rock stars and rock stars want to be athletes. I think that these celebrities, I think that's one of the things that makes the American Century Championship so appealing is that's these celebrities go out there and they're just living these Walter Mitty dreams that we live. We all kind of do. Yeah, they're us. People watch on television and they see Tom Brady, Charles Barkley, Steph Curry, Justin Timberlake, and they see themselves. You know, they're like us. Now maybe not Steph Curry because he's extraordinarily skilled. Steph is maybe a plus one or plus two. We're talking about this is something we all share. And it's kind of fun. Who knew that I'd be able to share something with Tom Brady or Wayne Gretzky or somebody like that, you know? 26:05.28 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Yes. You talk about something there about relatability. I've covered World Long Drive back in the day when Golf Channel owned the property. And I found that watching that and covering that, it's something that's not relatable to me. Here I am with my 100-mile-an-hour swing speed, and I'm happy if I hit a 235 off the tee, maybe with a rollout to 250 on a good drive. And these guys and women are just absolutely bombing it. So not really relatable as far as that goes. 26:25.28 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast And even with the PGA Tour, not necessarily relatable for my golf game, even though I am in awe of the women on the LPGA and also the men of how incredibly talented are to play that level. But even with YouTube golf a lot of what i will watch are the players that aren't necessarily the best and it is the personality and the storytelling and that's what i relate to. I know one podcast called Chasing Scratch with those guys and the fact that they are average people that are just trying to get better and that quest as a theme that's as old as storytelling itself there. The hero's journey, right? 27:05.11 jimmy Yeah, we're all out there. We're all out there chasing the same thing, aren't we? And the other thing, getting back to a point I mentioned before, we all love it too. I'm sure Tom Brady, of the things that he loves about golf, I'd imagine is that he loves going to a beautiful place. What's a better way to spend than four hours walking around a beautiful place, playing a game with people you like? I mean, something we can all connect on. 27:38.52 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast It is rather magical. Even up here in Vancouver, Canada, even though it's beautiful today, but I was out there playing on the weekend and I was still doing it with a smile on my face and because it is just an incredible opportunity to get out in nature. I usually walk so whenever I can, so getting those 15,000 steps in and yeah, just having a good time, which is why golf is the sport that is. I don't know how it is in the US. I don't know the numbers, but in Canada here, it is the most popular recreational sport in the country. You may think that it would be hockey, but with hockey, and I played a lot of hockey competitively, not quite at Mark Messier's level, but I also aged out at 20, played basketball. You age out also. 28:20.92 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast But golf is something I still, maybe I'm delusional here, Jimmy, but I still love to believe as a mid-handicapper that never grew up playing golf, that my best golf and my ceiling is still in front of me and hopefully placed they'll stay fit as best I can and flexible and work on my game. And hopefully my best golf is in front of me, which I know with basketball at six foot one, i was able to dunk in high school and although I haven't tried lately, but I bet you I can't even touch the rim anymore. 28:47.19 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Well, I'm playing better golf now than I probably ever have, although my handicap isn't as low as it's ever been. But I feel like I understand the game better than I ever have. And so I'm happy with that. 29:03.90 The ModGolf Podcast Nice. Nice. So, hey, the last couple of minutes I have with you before we jump over for another conversation for the ModGolf YouTube channel, where we're going to talk about a few different things. So, I really encourage our listeners here to go to the show notes because I'll include the link to the conversation Jimmy and I are going to have on the ModGolf YouTube channel. But I did want to talk a little bit more to finish up here, Jimmy, about Big Swing Media. When you and Fred were envisioning what this company could be, and like with all ventures, you can go out in many directions. So how did you focus that down and target to see that the real opportunity or the niche was to create a premium media company that was dedicated to covering the business of golf through the podcast, the newsletters, original reporting, executive events. and And who your target audience was, that persona or that avatar that would be your your listener, your subscriber, the person that you're connecting with with Big Swing Media. 30:04.22 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media So couple things there. First of all, when we're on Golf Channel, we are on Tuesday mornings at seven in the morning, at least that's the first year. We like to call that the CEO hour because there are a lot of people who are accomplished business people who are loving the game. 90% the Fortune 500 CEOs play golf. 450 of the 500 Fortune play golf four hundred and fifty the Fortune 500 ceos play golf. 30:34.39 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Wow. 31:34.94 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And if they're getting ready in the morning to go to work, I would imagine they have a choice. They could watch CNBC or Bloomberg or Fox News. But my money's on a good number of them, watching Golf Channel. And if we can give them intelligent talk about the business side of golf, one of the things we talk about is leadership and culture. Then that, I think we've got a fighting chance with that crowd. It's a crowded field if we want to go out there and talk about the competitive aspect of golf. There's plenty of people out there who are talking about that. 32:27.51 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media But for us, we fancy ourselves B2B product and that our constituency, which is growing, is a group of people who are interested in the types of things that we're talking about, which is, how businesses work, how businesses connect with golf, and the value of golf. Because there are a lot of people who are curious about that. And so that's where we are. We've identified our little lane. We're not broadcasters, we're narrowcasters. And we'd like that we have identified something where there's a lot of white space out there. And we're kind of colouring in some of the lines. 33:18.01 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast So some people may think it's rather niche-y, but it is such a deep vein that you are now mining in, like you said, that quarter trillion dollar a year industry in golf and expanding. 33:29.94 The ModGolf Podcast Now there is exponential growth in simulator golf and with what TGL is doing and grassroots initiatives to make the game more welcoming. Well, to put it bluntly this way, like you and I, not a couple of middle-aged white guys, which is the typical golf type of persona, if you will. That multi-billion dollar golf growth opportunity with women, and I've had the pleasure of talking to so many influential women and entrepreneurs in the golf space. So so to finish up, before we go over to the YouTube channel, I'd like to hear your thoughts as far as that diversity in golf and and where you see these opportunities and maybe a story or two that you can share with some amazing women in golf that you've connected with. 34:15.32 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Yeah, that's a really good point, Colin. I think, as you well know, the fastest growing segment of golf is young women and also people of colour. And these are constituencies that really didn't exist in terms of the golf spectrum 20 years ago. And what they represent is also an opportunity for businesses. And so by shining a light on some of their stories, We think we provide value also to businesses who are interested in considering how they can include these folks now in what they do. So far this year, we went out to the Chevron Championship. Chevron sponsored a show, and they also have a continuing sponsorship that they do with us called Powering the Women's Game. You talk about simulator golf, there's a very successful company, Five Iron Golf, that's all over the world now. One of the initial simulator companies, one of their three founders is a woman, Nora Dunn, and she's fabulous. 35:33.71 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast That's correct. Yeah. 35:35.39 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And we had her on the show, and it's really interesting to talk to people and hear their stories, but also to hear their challenges. One of my favourite guests that we've had on the show so far is Ann Walker, the coach of the Stanford University Golf Team, women's golf team. 37:53.86 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media She's a fabulous manager, and Stanford has been so successful three the last five national championships. But it's interesting to hear how she manages people, how she helps young people be their best. That's part of what we do too, is we talk to great leaders and you know try and uncover what it is that they do that we all the rest of us might do. 37:26.07 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media And Anne has been fabulously successful and she's really articulate and really interesting, really enjoyed having her on. All of our archives are available if you go to BigSwingMedia.News and there's an opportunity to subscribe to the channel and you can see any of our past episodes. We've had the good fortune of having talked to some really, really smart people who've offered some unique perspectives and think thought provoking also. I always love hearing from smart people and hear how they do things and how they do things differently. 38:02.89 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast Now, from what I hear, i can feel that energy and that excitement for all the stories that are still out there to be told and to be revealed that you're to the point now, if you wanted to, you can retire, you can hang them up. You've had a very long and fulfilling career, but it sounds like the next chapter for you that you've just started here is with Big Swing Media. 38:14.47 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Thank you. 38:23.10 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast So to finish up here, before we go over to the YouTube channel to shoot that, I'll just reinforce what Jimmy had just mentioned there. For our listeners in the show note here, I will include the link to bigswingmedia.news. So I think that's a kind of one-stop shop there. So hey, if you want to check out what they're doing with the podcast on YouTube, you can all go through that. And you had mentioned once again, Jimmy earlier, again, reiterate for me, please, on the Golf Channel, the show The Big Swing with Jimmy Roberts airs what time? On Tuesday, I believe. Is that 7 a.m. Eastern? 38:57.44 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media 7 a.m. Eastern, 9 a.m. Eastern, and in most weeks, also 11 a.m. m Eastern. But one of the things that we're also very, very excited about, Colin, is we've expanded and now we have what we call our Golf Business Intelligence Brief, which is twice a week. And we do print reporting on some of the more thoughtful, in-depth reporting on some of the more interesting topics in the world of golf and business. And got a couple of great reporters working for us. I offer an essay and perspective every week as well. And you can find out more about that on BigSwingMedia.News as well. 39:35.78 Colin Weston - host of The ModGolf Podcast There we go. And I am trying to show a little bit of restraint here. i did want to take a deeper dive into a couple of those pieces on your website. But I got to hold off on that because on the YouTube channel, I am going to pull up on screen the website. So we'll have some visuals to go along with that. Once again, I encourage our listeners here to become viewers. I'll include that link so you can check Jimmy and I out there, learn a little bit more about what he and others are doing with Big Swing Media. And like I said, we're going to talk about a few of the stories there, things that I've held off on here to ah to talk about there. So with that, Jimmy Roberts, 16-time Emmy winner. Sports storyteller, I want to thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to spend the time with us here on the ModGolf podcast. Thanks so much, Jimmy. 40:28.02 Jimmy Roberts / Big Swing Media Yeah, my pleasure, Colin. I really appreciate you having us.