00:26.96 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast Welcome to the ModGolf Podcast, where speak with the entrepreneurs, the innovators, the disruptors, and the influencers who are shaping the future of golf. 00:37.87 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast I'm your usual host, Colin Weston, but today I'm going to be stepping aside and having a guest host, a repeat guest host, actually, and that will be Mr. Rich Katz, who joins us again. It's been a couple of years since Rich has been the host of ModGolf, but here he is today, and I'm not even going to make the introductions of who he's going to be talking to today, all the great things they're going to be discussing. 01:03.74 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast I'm going to leave that to Rich. So, Rich, take it away, my friend. 01:09.53 Rich Katz Colin, it's a pleasure to be here again, and I appreciate the invitation. You've done wonders with The ModGolf podcast, and the viewer reaction over the years has been exceptional. So the goal here is to keep that exceptional run going, and I've got two wonderful guests with with us today, and I've gotten to know one of them for a very long time, and the other i consider a friend, a new friend of sorts. 01:42.87 Rich Katz I was first introduced to J.R. Charles, and maybe he accosted me, about seven years ago before a PGA show, and I said, who is this guy? 01:56.91 Rich Katz Well, JR is a combination of chief technology officer and chief revenue officer. That is a very, very uncommon yet very valued combination. JR started a company called Par One. It's a golf technology company that's very purposeful, very practical. 02:21.46 Rich Katz Does development work for several brands, those that are famous, those that are established, those that are emerging, and those that are new. 02:33.86 Rich Katz He's built a wonderful team of software engineers and full-stack engineers. and he's got several several products um that he's developed that ParOne owns and others that he's developed for brands far and wide that are guiding the future of golf and that's what we're here to speak about today He's joined by Aron Schuler. 03:04.76 Rich Katz and don't know if I pronounced that right, but close is good enough, except in horseshoes. And Aron is one of the most genius developers in all of golf that joined par one recently. 03:20.63 Rich Katz And Aron's been heavily involved in shot tracking, shot making, and adjacent technologies for the golfer and the golf businesses. 03:32.47 Rich Katz that really matter in this space. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Aron and JR in no particular order. And we're going to talk a little golf. We're going to talk a little bit golfers. We're going to talk a little bit about business. 03:45.91 Rich Katz And we're just going to have a jolly good time. And they're going to impart some wisdom on Colin's audience here that is thirsty for it. So JR, you and I met a long time ago. 03:59.13 Rich Katz and I've seen ParOne grow. I've been part of the metamorphosis of ParOne being one of the most coveted, sought after companies in golf when it comes to technology. talk to me, JR, a little bit about your background. You don't need to go into real technical detail here. 04:18.55 Rich Katz A little bit about your background, a little bit about your thoughts about the golf market and the thesis of ParOne. 04:28.06 JR Charles Well Rich, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me on the podcast too, Colin. It's a real exciting opportunity and really excited to be a part of this podcast. 04:39.99 JR Charles On a high level, ParOne, we really set out to own the video distribution path in golf. And we really set out to make a number of different products that focus on really video, how to move video, how to store video, and really everything video about golf. 05:02.10 JR Charles And so, when we first started, we started in 2020, we had a small capital raise of around $300,000. And we really just had one thesis of just building a really great video player. That was really it, just trying to reimagine the video experience, just really, you know, looking back, it was obviously a very small thing to try to look at. But at the time, it was a very, very big ostentatious goal that we had. 05:29.59 JR Charles And so we started working with a number of different clients in the golf industry, golf.com, LIV Golf. We held the Meteorites for latest European tour for a couple of years, and we were the live streaming partner for them across Europe in some of the years as well. 05:45.82 JR Charles And so we've turned that into a profitable business. And over the years, as we would talk to partners, I think we had some 10 acquisition offers where people wanted to acquire us. 06:00.33 JR Charles But I think it was really more that they wanted the team. 06:03.93 JR Charles They really wanted our team, our engineering prowess, our ability to turn business real products, that are real imaginative products that they had into real revenue producing things for them. 06:18.46 JR Charles And in 2025, we created a engineering agency called par1.dev. This is because we have no creativity. And everyone that tells you anything about marketing and branding don't just use the same name and add something to it. Well, we did because we didn't read that book. 06:40.12 JR Charles And we started this engineering agency and once we did that, we worked with a number of different clients in building engineering teams and being a part of a lot of different projects in golf. And one of the projects that we really were attracted to is solving game improvement and how does a player especially do-it-yourself player really navigate their own player journey of becoming the best player for themselves um especially with the change of golf being from 07:18.46 JR Charles On course, on range, in off course, inside of a simulator. And with this resurgence of and the use of data to like really understand what a player is trying to do, this is where we set out to create AvaGoff. And that's exactly why we wanted to bring Aron onto the team. 07:40.02 Rich Katz So, JR, that that's fascinating, knowing that video typically engenders double the amount of engagement over static content. 07:54.55 Rich Katz It seems like ParOne is in the right place at the right time, especially a sport um with mechanics of of the swing that are so reliant on video repetition. 08:09.08 Rich Katz And video learning Aron, you've been in this golf business for a long time. Why the heck did you drop everything you're doing to join par one? it it seems a little crazy. But then again, knowing ParOne's track record and future roadmap, not so crazy at all. 08:30.14 Aron Yeah, thank you. It seemed the same way to me, right? I got initially contacted by ParOne because I had some products out there that I was making, right? I started out with R10 progress. 08:45.10 Aron That's a simple program to upload your Garmin R10 data and have it analyzed because it gives you a bunch of numbers. But the way to see through these numbers is kind of hard. I thought we needed a better view into this data. So I built a simple platform to analyze and visualize mostly. 09:02.52 Aron The next thing I knew, i was working on a different product that didn't just encompass Garmin, but also a lot of other launch monitors, right? So a lot of different vendors all into one platform, all to visualize. But in the end, this all just gave me more data to work with, right? And more angles on problems that I already knew that were there. 09:24.76 Aron I had all this data laying around, but the vision they had with AvaGolf, there was something completely different. There was something that would combine this data into ah something that we would call golf intelligence because it's not just like one view, one angle. It's something more broad. 09:42.81 Aron And so because I like this vision so much and the perspective of having video integrated into this this process, that seemed like such a great idea that I like like I left my job for the big agency that I was working with here and I joined power one. And I've been I've been very happy with that decision. 10:02.97 Rich Katz That's terrific. For those of you who may not be all that wise when it comes to accents, I'm just so glad, Aron, we're not taping this during Munich's Oktoberfest. 10:18.65 Aron Yeah. 10:19.26 Rich Katz So I appreciate, Colin, you're having us on in April timeframe. because we've got a very somber and sober Aron joining us. So for those of you who don't know what AvaGolf is that ParOne is developing, it it basically aggregates data from launch monitors and other devices, 10:49.98 Rich Katz And it analyzes that data and it transforms it into a video playlist that's specific to each unique golfer's profile. 11:00.98 Rich Katz Pretty simple. So it's not one size fits all. It's very unique. And JR, let's get back to some macro here. What's your take on the golf market at large and in relation to golfers use of technology? 11:19.86 Rich Katz Is it static? Is it confusing? is it growing? or is it frustrating? Talk to us about that succinctly, please. 11:34.23 JR Charles Well, I love this topic more than anything. In short, the golf market is indeed growing. The use of data is indeed growing, but it creates a lot of different headaches and hurdles. 11:49.21 JR Charles When people want to go, they do bad or they do good and they want to learn why. and they're now inundated with all of these metrics and stats and all of these different data points where they don't really understand anything. 12:04.67 JR Charles I work in the golf industry and I work in game improvement. I don't know what half of these stats are. i have to Google them. And a frustrated person goes on YouTube to immediately try to find the fix. And when you have this really broad market appeal of YouTube trying to fix generalized things, issues you don't have the full context of the picture and everything essentially will boil down to some video on youtube that talks about let's review your grip or let's review your or review your alignment and it may not be that at all because the youtube video doesn't have access to the video or to the data that you have And so I think the biggest challenge here is instead of learning yourself, you would probably seek instruction. 12:56.44 JR Charles And so with instruction, there's 30,000 instructors. there's The NGF did a survey and said 20% of golfers take five lessons a year. That's roughly equivalent to 5 million people taking 25 million lessons a year. 13:11.67 JR Charles When you have this resurgence of growth from the post-COVID boom, every million new golfers brings in you know a million new lessons to be done by around the same 30,000 PGA instructors. And so the demand is continually growing, but the supply is really constrained. 13:31.74 JR Charles Anytime we can do instructor-led improvement associated with data, you're able to really pinpoint the exact problem that a user has and then really prescribe a fix. And that's what we're trying to achieve with AvaGolf. 13:46.97 Rich Katz Kobe Bryant, back in the day, said the problem with NBA players is, know, people pinpoint the problem, but they don't get specific with a solution. 14:02.87 Rich Katz And JR and Aron, we've discussed over time, the thesis that you subscribe to is more better, faster, easier, and then more specific. 14:14.78 Rich Katz So I think we're onto something. That video playlist is pretty cool. You guys let me test it out. And I think AvaGolf, I believe it's ava.golf. 14:26.81 Rich Katz I believe that is coming out within the next couple months. So beware, folks. You're in for a treat. So Let's talk about um a little bit about the swing itself, Aron, and how is ParOne going about it for AVAGolf? 14:52.44 Rich Katz Are we getting instructors doing videos? What does what does all that look like? 14:57.75 Aron So we have a couple of instructors doing the video part for Eva.Golf. We have a couple of instructors from the top 100 golf instructors that are around, and they are doing a fantastic job to record videos that not highlight only the the swing faults you might have, but only highlight simulation play. They highlight patting techniques. We highlight mental strategies, basically everything you could encounter during a round is covered, right? Because what was very important to us is that one problem you might encounter, it doesn't really have this one fixed solution, right? You have to see it from different angles to really get to the point here. So if your driver goes out of bounds, let's take a real example here. And you always slice it to the right out of bounds. It might be One, the slice. It might be an alignment issue. It might be you are trying to swing very fast, so it slices. And there are just so many issues. And we need the golf instructors here to really cover a broad area of content so that we can pinpoint exactly what the user needs and prescribe the ideal solution to them by not just looking at this one shot that goes out of bounds, but covering training sessions, covering multiple rounds, and really looking at the broader picture here. 16:17.37 Aron So we call this personalized progression. And this is one thing that the instructors need to reflect. This is this path that you are on and you want to progress. And so we need many, many videos. And these are done by these great professionals. 16:36.22 Rich Katz So so let me get this right. I'm struggling here and it's me, not you. i hear about AvaGolf. I go on avagolf.com. What do I do from there? 16:50.33 Aron From there, you would sign up for Ava.golf. You would connect your most important providers. So what you would do is you would initially just sign up for ever.golf. 17:18.03 Aron And then you would go ahead and sign in with your Arccos account, for example. Then you would go ahead and sign in with your Garmin account. And then we can provide you launch monitor data coming from your launch monitor, from your Garmin R50 or Garmin R10. You would have the view from your Arccos app, and that would track your rounds. And everything is now connected and flowing directly into Ava.gov. And with this in mind, we can then start prescribing you videos and prescribing your drills to improve your game and to thoroughly analyze and fix the issues that are underneath these faults you see during your rounds. 17:58.07 Rich Katz It sounds pretty simple. And I made an error here. I said avagolf.com, but it's really ava.golf. I'm just so used to that.com thing. It's just baffling. But I get it. 18:17.27 Rich Katz What does AVA stand for, JR? is Is it your sister's name? Is it your fourth kid's name? what What does AVA stand for? 18:29.16 JR Charles Well, Ava's actually named after my favourite niece, Ava. She is an aspiring golfer and she always struggled in finding the help that she needed from, you know, given her age, know, she's 11, 12 at the time. And so she was really on this self-taught, self-focused journey that she needed to learn. And video is the best way to create this instruction. So from Ava, we have then created an acronym from that, which is just AI Video Advisor. 19:03.48 Rich Katz Is your niece receiving royalties? 19:07.13 JR Charles If she hears this podcast, she'll probably ask for some. She's a very good negotiator. So of hope that she doesn't hear this podcast because then she'll start asking for some. 19:18.46 Rich Katz Yeah, it's amazing. And I know your tests of this has yielded really good take rates. It's pretty on a scale of one 10. I've got to say, 10 being the hardest, one being the easiest. 19:33.37 Rich Katz It's got to be like a two or three to figure it out a lot of these tools out there. They make what should be simple complex. And it seems like AvaGolf, or in this case, Ava.Golf folks, makes a complex simple, which is is really nice. Talk about a little bit about um what the expectations are for golfers. 20:05.27 Rich Katz Is it a slow drip? Is it a quick fix? Aron, what what should golfers expect here? 20:18.65 Aron Of course, they shouldn't expect an immediate fix to all their golf issues, right? Golf takes a lot of patience, a lot of training to actually become better, but they should definitely expect the perspective they need to have meaningful progress with their golf game. 20:31.88 Rich Katz Aaron? 20:36.18 Aron And I can only speak from my perspective here. I was a 28 handicap last year and um I've improved just by building and using the app. I've improved to now play at around 18 handicaps. 20:47.66 Aron So that's 10 strokes lost just by using the app that we've built so far. Right. And this validates our approach. And I love seeing the results that I want to see in other golfers just in myself. 21:02.08 Aron And they should expect a better perspective and just a path forward. This personalized progression that we are aiming for. 21:15.06 Rich Katz Yeah, it's that's that seems so simple. Anyone who says there's a quick fix, um I would not go that route because it's a process, folks. 21:27.54 Rich Katz Anything we do is a process. The learning never stops. And what I have picked up from this conversation that this is easy to implement. 21:39.16 Rich Katz We're not going to need PhD from Harvard to figure this thing out. It's intuitive. And I'm very fortunate since JR and I have known each other for a while. 21:51.38 Rich Katz This isn't parcelled out to the Far East or or other countries outside of Aron's German accent. 22:02.74 Rich Katz Quite frankly, his English is better than mine. a lot of these engineers are stateside. JR, maybe you could describe them. I describe them as a bunch of leftover looking hippies. But that's just my take on kind of nerd tech talk. 22:23.45 JR Charles Yeah, we really followed a global approach to this. Aron is leading the engineering because we believe that Aaron is by far the strongest person in the world who can lead the development on this. With him, he has a number of US-based engineers on our team. Most of them are based in Dallas. We have a design firm in London that's kind of putting everything together with this. 22:54.52 JR Charles And then with the instructors, we have instructors that are mostly based in Florida, Arizona, and New York. I mean, kind of like the golfing hotspots here. But making sure that we connect as much as we can with this industry, with the people that actually serve this industry. that is really what we try to do. We didn't try to reinvent the wheel with data or anything like that. 23:21.18 JR Charles We really wanted to make this product for golfers by us as well. 23:26.74 Rich Katz And JR, I'm going to throw it back to you with all respect to Aron here. i followed the journey and ParOne seems to be the best company that people have never heard of. 23:38.36 Rich You do it very quietly. You do it very efficiently. And your success rate of you know leaving people very, very happy, are very satisfied is very high. You've done work for Live Golf. You've done work for Golf.com. 23:57.63 Rich Katz You've done work for so many others. Can you share a little bit about yeah maybe those two monstrous organizations? And I say monstrous in the most respectful sense. 24:09.50 JR Charles We love working with everyone in the golf industry. Golf.com is by far one of our favourite publishers out there. They have such a huge audience and they have so many demanding technological issues because they have such scale. And being able to work with them to deliver a new improved video experience has been such a profound impact in and the way that we think about products and the way that we do things because They are so great at coming out with new ideas that they think that their readers would love. And we love just being a part of that and then helping them build these things. With LIV, they needed a product that would help with media and media distribution to connect with the worldwide media audience that they had. 24:58.26 JR Charles We were just so fortunate enough that they picked us to help them figure out these challenges and these things and helping with their press conferences and live streaming in tracking analytics with this. What I love about working with these two huge organizations is there's always someone involved that says it would be a great idea if when someone has that, I love working with that person so much because with the engineering team we built, we're not constrained by any limitations about that. If they say, it would be really great if we could do this, 25:38.04 JR Charles Why not? Let's do that. And so what's really great about our engineering team and knowing everything we've made and we've built everything, things don't take six months. They don't take a year. They take probably a week for us to create these features. And that's what I love so much about working with these great organizations as well as just big brands and also small brands as well. 26:20.47 Rich Katz With the team of engineers being onshore versus offshore, we go back to your thesis of more, better, faster, easier, which is really cool. 26:36.09 Rich Katz So Aron, let's turn this over to you. 26:44.30 Rich Katz You've been doing this a while in golf. You're a pretty good golfer. You put yourself in golfer's shoes. Talk about the future of golf. Talk about the subset of game improvement. What does that look like? 27:03.19 Aron It's a very interesting market right now Because with golf improvement, there's just so much so much going on. 27:13.21 Aron There's so much to it, so much data, so many institutions or persons or companies trying to sell you the next best, just the best fix, right? Ideally, it should be very simple. There should be clarity. There should be one way forward. You want to master your golf game as best as you can. You want to move forward. 27:37.85 Aron without just getting one device, one tool after another. And I've seen this in myself. I have the whole shelf behind me full of golf products that I've tried to use to get better. I was starting out as a in Germany. We start out as a 54 handicap. And so that's a tough perspective to start with. 27:59.34 Aron And then you're starting to go down that route of handicap, trying to reach in a couple of years, the scratch perspective and just nothing is really clicking. You get some lessons here and two there, but nothing gives you clarity. And with the golf market, it's just getting more and more crowded, especially in the game improvement, because it's just easy to sell something to a golfer that's looking for for an easy fix. And It's something that we are striving exactly not to be. We're not trying to be the next easy fix. We are trying to be a prescription for you, something that you look at, something that brings you the clarity you need. So really what you're after with AvaGolf is mastery without like the guesswork in it. And this part is especially valuable to me because It's just one perspective, this one tool, and you'll figure everything out with it as you go. So I think the perspective here and just this path that you have, this is something the market really needs right now and something I'm very, very happy to work with. 29:13.78 Rich Katz I know if I asked JR the same question, I may get the same answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway. But before JR addresses the future of golf, Aron, I'm convinced. It seems like Ava.Golf or AvaGolf, is gonna be the ubiquitous Big Bertha of golf instruction. 29:40.09 Rich Katz Again, it's making the complex simple for every part of your game, tied in with the best instructors in the world. JR, the future of golf, what does it look like? you You're a crystal ball type of guy. 29:53.78 JR Charles I think with the advancement of technology, It's exactly what Aron said. The future is just going to be personalized and data-driven improvement just at scale. With what we're building here at EvaGolf, in general, everything is going to be more focused on a root cause analysis. There's going to be more, a bigger hit inside of golf as a whole, because there's this blending between course, on range and off course. And before like before COVID, the only time you played golf was on a course. 30:35.89 JR Charles Topgolf came out and they really reimagined what it was like to play golf. People started just playing Topgolf instead of going to the course. 30:46.55 JR Charles And then from Topgolf, you had simulators that then started having all of these, shopping mall experiences where you can go to an eight bay and play simulator based golf. During the pandemic, I'm sure, you know, me, along with probably thousands of other people, checked out Carl's place to figure out how much does cost to buy a golf simulator and let me do it myself. 31:14.68 JR Charles now when someone thinks about let's go play golf, it's not just let's go play 18 on a course. It's we can also play in a simulator. 31:25.91 JR Charles We can play competitively one-on-one inside at home on a simulator. We can go to a Topgolf and play simple there. We can go on the course. But as you really take the fundamentals of golf, which is just you know hitting a ball and into the cup, 31:42.91 JR Charles everyone's data is going to be different and unique. it So all the data is not going to originate from one place anymore. And this is why we're trying to be the centralized point of golf intelligence is everyone's going to be playing golf in so many different ways. 31:58.74 Rich Katz What's crazy is there's so much technology out there. People don't know where to start in there. And you alluded to that. It's confusing out there. So AVA Golf, it seems like it's going to bring all the confusion into what I call a PIP. 32:17.27 Rich Katz And it's not Performance-Improvement-Plan. In this case it's more purposeful, intuitive, and practical. I'm overwhelmed with so much that's out there. How is this evolving? How do we streamline this and get rid of the bad training aids and get into the precise, accurate training aids? Training tools. 32:56.73 Aron Yeah, the most confusing perspective is the most confusing thing,, is the so many perspectives, right? And we are not trying to sell you just another swing training product it's more like this broad picture on your whole game that we are trying to sell you. There's just so much happening out there. And you really want to go play around. And here you really want to go and train a bit without having to keep all these all these tricks in mind, all these tips in mind. You just need one calm, structured place for your improvement, right? And this is what we are trying to provide ultimately. It's not yet another tool. It will be one part of your routine. It will be just there for you. It will guide you towards your mastery of the golf game and towards something that you've hunted for so long, right? 34:01.85 Aron So many fixes in so many YouTube tutorials and so many swing thoughts in your head. That's not what we are after. We are very thorough and very calm, clear, personalized progress. This is what we're trying to achieve. 34:19.22 Rich Katz And Aron, as golfer's games evolve, the video playlists that AvaGolf serves up, that's going to evolve as well. So you're not going to get the same, you know, kind of week one with AvaGolf. You're not going to get the same videos in Week 36, correct? 34:40.69 Aron Correct, definitely. So we have over 400 videos channeled up and there are more produced every month. So you will have this never ending stream of personalized videos just for your case, right? So all these topics that you might need to learn more about during your podcast, 34:58.62 Aron your plan of progress here. um These will all be covered and there will be more and more. So you won't see the same video twice once you've watched this because we know, hey, this won't help anymore. So we'll give you another. And there are so many, so many things we can, we can teach you with AvaGolf and these top 100 instructors. It will be amazing. I honestly believe that. 35:21.94 Rich Katz So if I could summarize that, Aaron, without the German accent, we are going to, we, AVAGolf is going to remove the guesswork um because the videos that are served are inexorably linked the um with areas in which you need fixes. 35:47.64 Rich Katz So it's a time saver. And that's what I like because everyone's time is at a premium and you shouldn't have to hunt and peck for something that's going to help you. The data should guide those video selections. So it's just genius. So genius that I wouldn't mind when I win my March Madness bracket and and Michigan takes on the the championship I may spend the money I win in a pool on having dinner with a bunch of engineering guys who just figure this out to make golf and golfers enjoy the game more because they're playing more. So that brings me to maybe one last question, and unless you guys want to keep going on. 36:34.65 Rich Katz If you can only have one piece of advice for golfers looking to up their games, what would it be? And we could we could flip the coin here, but i'm going to flip it for you because Aron, you're on the spot. One piece of advice. 36:51.86 Aron So most tools give you more data, but at AvaGolf, we're trying to give you direction. And ultimately your game needs direction. 37:05.34 Rich Katz Okay, we'll buy that. And I'm sure people in this listening world will subscribe to that notion that it's really hard to find the right tool to give you solutions unique to your flaws. 37:27.58 Rich Katz JR, you want to follow one piece of advice or are you going to abstain or take the fifth? 37:34.45 JR Charles Well, it's similar to what Aron said the most common answer is more data. But now it's really more you have data. So the thing I would say is to focus on the right things and not everything. 37:50.01 JR Charles because Every person's journey is a sequential change of fixes needed to get to their mastery. And if you focus on every single thing, you're just going to have a hodgepodge of a swing where you're going to be like me and you can barely hit the ball sometimes. 38:08.12 JR Charles You know, and so when you fix one thing, then you fix the next and then the next and then the next. And when you look at that over a period of time, over one or two or three years, you know, you get down to your goal of being scratch or being a six or being a 10 or being a 15. 38:26.26 JR Charles And the goal is, as we said throughout this podcast, it's really mastery of your golf game. 38:35.06 Rich Katz Yeah, yeah, it's um all over the board, and I appreciate ParOne streamlining that. For those of you who don't know me out there in the golf world, I'm very selective because time is very short. I'm very selective with who I hang out with in golf. And it seems every time I hang out with the ParOne team of developers, the combination of CTOs and CROs that they've assembled. I am incredibly impressed. And I don't impress very easily. That's not a snotty or snobby thing to say. 39:22.01 Rich Katz But again, and we only have so much time and we want to deal with smart, integrity-laden people who do what they say they're going to do. And that's what I've come across with part one over the years. So I appreciate everyone's time here today. Colin, appreciate you and turning over the guest host role to me. This is my second voyage guest hosting. 39:46.20 Rich Katz And it's been a lot of fun. I learned a lot. And if I could leave you with one thing. Check out ava.golf when it comes to marketing the next couple of months. I was fortunate enough to get a sneak preview. 40:00.44 Rich Katz And again, i don't impress easily, but these guys bowled me over. Appreciate everyone listening. Bye-bye. 40:09.91 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast So that's a wrap for this episode of the ModGolf podcast. I want to thank Rich Katz for guest hosting this week. 40:22.94 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast I know his time is precious, as he mentioned, so I really appreciate that he considers spending time with ModGolf, time well spent. If you want to learn more about AvaGolf and ParOne, I will include in the show notes all the links to them as they launch the Ava.Golf app very, very soon. By the time we release this podcast, it should already be out there. 40:43.03 Colin Weston - The ModGolf Podcast And again, hey if you want to dive deeper into ModGolf and become part of our community, I encourage you to join our Patreon at patreon.com/ModGolf. That's it for this week. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm your host, Colin Weston. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.