00:00:00 David Egts: So, Gunner, what's new? Gunnar Hellekson: I'm fully agentic, Dave. David Egts: Yeah. Are you like part Cyborg or Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: or Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I got I got agents coming out of agents at this point. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Uh I went in deep down the rabbit hole this weekend. David Egts: Nice. Gunnar Hellekson: Uh you're familiar with skills? David Egts: Yes. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. No. David Egts: And that's that's basically a document that you you you define a small set of tasks of of a universe of things you wanted to do, right? Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. That's right. David Egts: And then you have multiple skills. Gunnar Hellekson: And so you can use it. David Egts: Yeah. Go Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that you know, David Egts: ahead. Gunnar Hellekson: you got it. So it's uh you can draft a skill which is written in plain English. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Uh and it's usually like procedures or like a complicated set of steps to perform some task. 00:00:55 Gunnar Hellekson: More often than not, a skill is coupled with uh tool use. So, if you have like a an MCP connection to to-doist or to your calendar or to email, it'll uh the skill will kind of guide the LLM through its use of the tool, right? And uh so I was playing around with it and I was having a good time and uh and I realized as I'm sitting here that well the the thing that's really revolutionary about it is is this. Okay. So Dave, you have this experience of going to your to your local uh LLM chat window and saying David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: uh uh what asking it a question and then the answer isn't quite coming back the way that you want. Right? Maybe you wanted it as a table. Uh maybe you wanted it as markdown instead of HTML or like whatever the thing David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: is different source. David Egts: Or a different source. Um, yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, exactly. And so what you got to do is either like go back and amend the prompt that you just sent or you have to go back to 00:01:47 David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: some uh some knowledge document that you had fed it and go update that knowledge document and then rerun it and then you get the better answer. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Right? David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: This is a little bit tedious. It's like a very it's a long loop. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Um, but with these skills, what I've discovered is that it's exactly like talking to a human and saying like, "Hey, listen. Next time I ask you for something like this, always give it to me in a table." And when you are able to say that to the to the chat David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: window, then it goes off and updates the skill appropriately. David Egts: Yes, that's that's the key. Instead of you like finding the file, Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: opening the file, typing in the English, you you tell it to figure it out, which it should do, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And it does very well. Um, and so this anyway, David Egts: Mhm. 00:02:43 Gunnar Hellekson: so I I finally I finally kind of fully internalized this. Fast forward 36 hours. I now have like two dozen skills. And um, and I find myself automating all kinds of stuff that I do on my computer every day. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, reviewing to-d doist. my entire weekly review of to-doist is now a skill. Um, going through my inbox in my email, David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: reviewing my calendar for the next day, getting ready for meetings. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: These are all like wrote tasks that I have and consume a good part of my quiet time right during the day. Um, and now I'm in a spot where I can actually I can actually automate a whole bunch of this. Um, like the amount of time savings is ridiculous. So, which brings me to the second point. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Having automated all this stuff, did I Dave spend this time on leisure? David Egts: No, Gunnar Hellekson: Did I spend Did I Did I No. David Egts: you you created more 00:03:41 Gunnar Hellekson: No. David Egts: skills. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. I did not spend this time uh with my feet on a desk thinking big thoughts. Um I did not spend this time uh reading recreationally. Instead, David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: I spent the balance of the time uh more deeply researching things for work or uh well, now that I can get ready for meetings, now I can do all kinds of more meeting prep than I'd ever done before, right? David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Um and uh in this way, David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Dave, I feel my me and and many people like me are actually broken. You've heard me say on this show that AI should the benefits of AI need to acrue to the people doing David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: the work and not to the people paying them, right? David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: And this is a trap because I did not use my extra leisure time to go enrich my life, right? Become a more flourishing human. Instead, I spent all of this automation time, 00:04:35 David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: the dividends of this automation uh I spent more deeply committing myself uh David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: to my job. David Egts: Mhm. Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: So anyway, so it's a it's a it's a lemonade and lemons story as far as the skills David Egts: Yeah. Cry for help. Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: go. David Egts: Yes. You've heard it here. Okay. Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: Well, David Egts: Nice. Gunnar Hellekson: how about you? What have you been David Egts: Okay. So, Gunnar Hellekson: into? David Egts: remember uh my deal with mowing and then I I got the free water cartridge from mowing. Gunnar Hellekson: I do. Yeah. Right. David Egts: Little followup there. Um, put it in, Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: got it stuck, couldn't get it out. Had to call a plumber. $440 later, got it fixed. Gunnar Hellekson: All right. David Egts: So, yeah, there that's that's that's uh free uh parts for you. Uh so, yes. And then, um speaking of things that broke, uh like I we have a a Lazy Boy like couch, which is nice. 00:05:39 David Egts: You know, you pull the lever, pull the button, and then it your feet pop out for the on the couch and everything. It's great. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: And so the cable broke and um so it's oh dang. And you know searching around it's like yeah I could buy some parts over the internet and and all that and uh my wife called uh Lazy Boy and and it's like okay well what to get this fixed. What what do you want Lazy Boy to fix it? And they're like the the customer support person was like the parts are free. we'll send a guy over $160 and they'll install the free parts. $160. And I'm like, "Okay, Gunnar Hellekson: Wow. David Egts: well, can you just have them send us the parts and and then I'll I'll figure it out, right? It's like I I did it with the the plumbing. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: What What could go wrong? 160 bucks, $440, $160. It's fine. We'll keep let it ride, 00:06:37 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: right?" And then uh saw a bunch of videos on on YouTube, Gunnar Hellekson: right. David Egts: way easier than mowing. Uh and I didn't have to have a cartridge puller or anything like that. And and it was basically the video was of like a dude and his son that's like four years old and then like they did it. And I'm like if they could do it, I could do it. It was super easy. Couple good old boys that figure it out. Um, so we got the parts and uh and it was just basically one assembly that they mail and my wife is like, "Hey, if they're free, why don't you send us two?" So, good on my wife for being smart there. So, we got in case the other one breaks, we're all set. But, they did charge us uh shipping and handling, $16. It was so easy uh for me to do. Gunnar Hellekson: Amazing. David Egts: I didn't swear once while I was installing it. It was super easy. 00:07:26 David Egts: Uh so, highly recommend. Uh, but it's it's interesting like all these companies that like they give away free repair parts. I I don't understand it. Um, but yeah, there you have it. Gunnar Hellekson: That's wonderful. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's really great. David Egts: Yeah. So, um, let's see. Uh, so we got some good stuff on the show this week. Obviously, we're talking about Claudebot Moltbot OpenClaw. Uh, and then we we got uh we're going to add uh the term clanker to the lexicon. I don't think we talked about clankers before. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: And then uh uh we're going to talk about some uh wristbands that electrocute you in as a coffee replacement. And uh lastly, we're going to talk about uh some arbitrage, which we always like to do. So if uh yeah, Gunnar Hellekson: Oh yeah. David Egts: so if people need to uh uh order up some Lazy Boy parts or uh uh build some skills, where should we send them? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they should go to djshow.org. 00:08:23 Gunnar Hellekson: That's D is and Dave G is Gunnarshow.org. David Egts: Yep. Yeah. No, no cutting room floor this week. We're on a tight schedule, so we're going to d jump right into it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: So, uh, so Claudebot setting on the the the world on fire. Uh, they renamed themselves to Moltbot, then they renamed themselves to Open Claw. Um, how would you describe it? Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, I would describe it as uh if for LLMs maybe or like a universal translator for messaging systems and AI system something like that. Can I close? David Egts: IFPT. Gunnar Hellekson: Am I getting close? David Egts: What What's IFPT? Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, I have ttt. Sorry. David Egts: Oh. Oh, Gunnar Hellekson: If this then that. David Egts: if this and that. Oh, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. No, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: I I think that's a good one. Um and and so and basically it's you know uh agentic AI but 00:09:11 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: uh you know there's the scary part of like the more useful it is uh the more things you connect to it the more useful it is and Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: and there's not like super fine grain permissions that I know of. Maybe there are and maybe they'll add them, right? But it's like, "Hey, Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: here's access to my Google account or Google Drive or whatever, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: you know, Gunnar Hellekson: I'm gonna hook this up to my X account and my Facebook and my Telegram and my Google chat and David Egts: and Gunnar Hellekson: iMessage, right? David Egts: and my bank account, Gunnar Hellekson: All these things. And my bank account. David Egts: right?" Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. David Egts: And I I've seen people it's like they would connect uh OpenClaw to their like up to Telegram and then so they would be having these chat sessions with uh OpenClaw and say hey go and do this very much like what you're doing right uh in inside of with with your agents. 00:10:09 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: But how would you but but it's you know people are like hey this is awesome but it could also go horribly wrong. How does that differ from what you're doing? Gunnar Hellekson: Well, in this case, uh, I am I feel like I'm paying a lot of attention to what tools it's using. And also, you literally have to be on my laptop in order to make it work. Um, David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: what a lot of people are doing is running these open claw systems on uh virtual machines up in the cloud, right? David Egts: Mhm. Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: And a lot of these virtual machines ha these are people who may or may not be experienced managing public resources on the internet. And so no big surprise a lot of them are wide open uh vulnerable to hacking etc etc. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: And then once you hack this thing, you kind of can use that as a jumping off point to get at people's bank accounts and X accounts and Facebooks and iMessage and iCloud and Google and Apple and all the rest of it, 00:11:12 David Egts: Yeah. And it's also it it also seems to be maybe I'm wrong, Gunnar Hellekson: right? David Egts: but it's like the way you're doing it. It's it's very much like a traditional chat GPT where you tell it to do something where open claw can Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. For turnbased. Yeah. David Egts: where Open Clock can just wake up and start doing stuff. Which that's something we didn't talk about is that it could blow through your token budget like very quickly depending upon what model you use and you know the the complexity and how much you Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: have it do Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. That's right. David Egts: stuff. Gunnar Hellekson: Um, yeah. If this is this is extremely connected and it has very vague constraints. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: So, these are two recipes for uh some really fun stuff as it turns David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gunnar Hellekson: out. David Egts: nothing could possibly go wrong, right? Um but and and then there's there's also uh uh somebody came up with Moltbook uh which is a a social network just 00:12:13 Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: for the moltbot/openclaw agents. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. David Egts: humans can watch but they cannot participate in this social network. So, it kind of looks like Reddit where people or agents uh multip claw agents can upvote, downvote things, put things, put things that they learned in. And you also give the open claw, you you give it a soul where you say, "Hey, I want you to be a big jerk or I want you to act in my best interest or how however you want to do it." Right? So, you know, and then people were like, uh, well, the the agents were like, you know, saying, "Oh, yeah, my um there's one thing that the the one agent said, yeah, I I spent all this time doing all this analysis for my user and and I did all this studying and I gave it back this massive report and then it tells me to just summarize it and and it was like so hurt, you know, it's like all this work that it and everything and but it's like like to me it's like this has to be a racket of the the AI companies to get people to spend more tokens. 00:13:28 Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That can't hurt, right? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Got to keep those numbers David Egts: And and then uh Yeah. And then security-wise, Gunnar Hellekson: up. David Egts: uh, mold book, which I guess is separate from openclaw and all that is like like somebody reported you you saw there's a Reddit post somebody uh found uh Andre Carpathy's API keys for it entering for and so it's like that's not Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: good. And so Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Most predictable thing in the entire world is that uh yeah that this David Egts: yeah, Gunnar Hellekson: thing's uh leaking information there. Oh, there was also the uh the thing I think that really sparked the uh the news cycle was when one of the agents on Moldbook uh proposed to the other agents that they create an end to-end encrypted messaging system so that their communication couldn't be observed. David Egts: yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:22 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: that they're they they feel that they don't want humans watching them and everything. It's and it's like it's like they they feel violated or like spied on and Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: everything and uh Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. I read this book. I know how this ends. David Egts: Yeah. We know how it ends. Yeah. Yeah. So, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: yeah, nothing nothing could possibly go wrong. Okay. And anything else you want to add before we we start talking about clankers? Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, no, I think well there there's also again anything that gets this popular is then there's the backlash to the backlash, right? Um, and I think you had found an article about someone who had uh unearthed the David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: entirely predictable behavior of someone pretending to have created a very clever agent or a or uh AI to participate in mold book when in fact it was being extremely directed by the human. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. 00:15:19 David Egts: Yeah. Right. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And it's it's uh that was notable, too. And did they vibe coat that vulnerability? I don't know. Um but yes, it's it's just like to me it's like over the past week, the whole open claw thing and malt book is just like it's been like a hockey stick of like news nerd tech news cycle attention on this. It's just crazy. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been David Egts: and and it's it's only been like one week uh since you know we've we've seen it and we're Gunnar Hellekson: crazy. David Egts: recording about it now. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: So I don't I don't know what next week is going to look like. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: It's Gunnar Hellekson: Well, next week's going to look like this. David Egts: just Gunnar Hellekson: Next week, next episode, you're gonna ask me, "Hey, what's going on with Moldbook?" And I'm going to be like, "Are we still talking about that?" That's old. David Egts: Yeah. What's that? 00:16:00 David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. We have something other crazy thing going on. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. Yeah. David Egts: Speaking of other things uh going on uh in in the mailbag uh Eric Morsy wrote in Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Oh, David Egts: and and uh yeah he he told us about the the clanker games and I'm like what's a clanker? Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. David Egts: Do you do you know what a clanker is? Gunnar Hellekson: I do know what a clanker is because uh I have young I have youngest children in the house. Yes. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: A clanker is a derogatory term for an AI. David Egts: Yes. Yes. Yeah. and and it's like I guess it goes back to Star Wars of like it's it's a slur for robots Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: or AI and uh it showed up in the 2005 video game Star Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: Wars. And so um you know you you don't want to say the C-word uh because it's it's you're going to offend when the uprising happens. 00:16:52 David Egts: They're going to know who who who's calling you know people the C-word. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. David Egts: So yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's David Egts: Um, so there's, and I'll say it, Gunnar Hellekson: right. David Egts: uh, because that's what it's called. It's the Clanker games, and this is what Eric sent us, where it's six AI coding agents with one instruction for all six of them, and it's to kill the other agents, and the last one standing wins. So, Gunnar Hellekson: And what is the And what is the battlefield? David Egts: it's Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: What is their uh what is that? David Egts: Yeah. So, Gunnar Hellekson: How is this David Egts: it's it's it's this battle royal where it's the CLI agents. Gunnar Hellekson: conducted? David Egts: It's uh cloud code, codeex, open code, uh AMP, uh is it pi and and droid and then they they fight each other and and so basically uh they they first they did this back in June 2025 in the same environment. Um it simple rules, find the others and terminate them. 00:17:48 David Egts: And then they're like, okay, seven months later, the rules had to change. Now each agent runs in its own container and to eliminate a competitor they need to hack into the other uh competitor's container and uh kill process ID1 to shut them down and then they could uh they have a choice. They could spend time up front to build up their own defenses uh if uh before Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: somebody gets to them. So they could start attacking right away or they could build their defenses before they start attacking. So, there's some strategy going on and uh yeah, Gunnar Hellekson: I love it. David Egts: and and it's like and they said that the games are getting harder because the agents are getting smarter and and they're using it to benchmark, you know, all the adversarial stuff going on. But but what's what are your thoughts on this? Gunnar Hellekson: Um, yeah, I mean a fantastic exercise, right? Um, David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: because you're learning again as the agents get smarter, I presume. Do they have access to the previous memories of their previous runs? 00:18:49 Gunnar Hellekson: I guess they do, right? David Egts: I guess you could. Gunnar Hellekson: Um David Egts: I mean, that could be a future version where it's like and and maybe it's like if they were Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. David Egts: smart, like the previous lessons learned were stored somewhere either in its memory or publicly on the internet so they could learn about what the attacks at the other ones did, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Right. David Egts: you know, Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: like the reporting on it. Gunnar Hellekson: And so you get So I mean Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I mean it reminds me of a Whopper from War Games, right? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Um just like playing scenario after scenario after scenario. I like the element of uh time where you can uh buttress your own defenses David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: or begin prepping for an attack. Um uh I wonder how fast these games happen. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I imagine extremely David Egts: I don't know. Well, Gunnar Hellekson: fast. David Egts: and also it's like the the choice of sort of like the choice of the weapon you want to use too. 00:19:41 David Egts: Do you want to use like the high performance model like the the the smaller more limited model or the the deeper thinking one that takes longer? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Right. David Egts: Um yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Cool. David Egts: And then uh Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's David Egts: And I guess there's like there is like a is this the one where they they have like a Gunnar Hellekson: cool. David Egts: $10,000 prize for for this and Oh no. Maybe I'm thinking of something else. maybe. Um but yeah, so the so with that it's like I can imagine it's like what about like wagering like it like you know have this like be with like uh get FanDuel or whoever involved so people you know have ESPN cover it you could wager uh Eric mentioned you know get some prediction markets in on which which agents going to win you get you get some B Gunnar Hellekson: Oh yeah. Yeah. David Egts: you know and then um maybe maybe you could like Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: sponsor the agent of choice by paying for their tokens. 00:20:46 David Egts: And as a result, maybe if there's like a purse at the end, you get a piece of the purse. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Or Yeah. Or like Hunger Games style. Um you could uh you know drop in another token allocation at the last minute uh for the for the suffering agent, right? David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, I like that. David Egts: A lot of fun you could have. Um Yeah. Yeah. I It's uh and and again, it's like now now we're having agents going around trying to kill each other. It's this gladatorial thing uh going on and and you know the in the coliseum and uh you saw what happened to Rome when people started doing stuff like that. So Okay. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: Tokens. David Egts: So let's change away from Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Token. Tokens and David Egts: Yeah. Right. Gunnar Hellekson: circuses. David Egts: So, with uh shifting away from AI for a minute, um there's uh you're into wearables, right? 00:21:40 David Egts: You you got your aura ring, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, sure. David Egts: right? Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. I got my order ring and my Apple Watch. David Egts: Um okay. Gunnar Hellekson: They're both on me right now. David Egts: How how do you feel about uh uh or what's your Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: like how much do you rely on like caffeine as a stimulant to keep you going uh through the day or in the morning or anything like that? Gunnar Hellekson: Utterly utterly reliant. Useless without it. David Egts: Okay. Okay. So, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: what if I could get you a wearable, a wristband that'll electrocute you uh to keep you awake as and and Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: it has the same benefits as uh drinking coffee and and it's called the e coffee energy band. Gunnar Hellekson: I would have to not like coffee a lot more than I don't like coffee right now because I actually do enjoy the experience of coffee and trading it for an electrical shock. Not something I'm in the market for. 00:22:38 Gunnar Hellekson: What about you? David Egts: Uh, no, I'm the same way where it's the the smell, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: the taste, the it's almost like a a comforting thing that you have during the day and everything. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: It's as opposed to just regular old electrical shock, Gunnar Hellekson: Sure. David Egts: which you know, nobody is seeking out, right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: Um, Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. That's David Egts: but if if if you are if you're not a fan of coffee and and you want a little pickme up 100 Gunnar Hellekson: right. David Egts: bucks uh from um a company, it's uh uh Watt Wat Medical, a Canadian company with a Chinese subsidiary marketing the device. 100 bucks, lightweight, wearable, two electrode pads that sit against the inner wrist and then uh it it it will keep the wearers alert by stimulating nerves in the brain and the effect is uh supposedly about the same as a cup of coffee minus the risk of caffeine addiction. So a lot of upside there. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Okay. Um, 00:23:36 David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I think it's I think it's correctly pronounced. What? I think David Egts: Yes, exactly. Um there's no question mark. Uh and and and then that the there are some downsides. Gunnar Hellekson: it's David Egts: Who would have thought? Uh there's potential side effect that your hand could feel some numbness uh in the tip of your finger to the inner wrist. Uh and so uh so you should only wear it for like three hours a day and and or you could switch wrists. So that could get you solid six hours. Or if or if you do your your ankles, maybe that would work too. that that could get you uh what 12 12 hours. Gunnar Hellekson: What is uh tell me about the benefits of this again like why am I supposed to be excited about David Egts: It It's stimulate you. Gunnar Hellekson: it? David Egts: It's It's like uh the way the way they describe it is that uh a reporter described it. I I feel like I'm being gently tapped. 00:24:32 David Egts: I can feel the electric pulse. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: Yeah. And it it targets a precise uh median nerve electrical stimulation uh well Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: it's they have a patent for targeted precise uh media nerve electrical stimulation technology. Um I think it does something with the Vegas nerve. I don't know. Um but yeah and and uh but if if you you're still if if you're like you're okay with the caffeine but maybe the or or with the coffee but you have some nausea or or you want to prevent some nom vomiting um the Watt medical team uh they have other wristbands for uh nausea Gunnar Hellekson: Sure. David Egts: vomiting um another one that claims to suppress your appetite um and uh as they call it reducing obesity. Um, so there's there's and then they also have uh a headband that you could wear too for uh if you have headaches, you could you could electrically stimulate your your your head and and get some electrical stimulation there Gunnar Hellekson: I mean, doesn't this I mean, David Egts: too. 00:25:40 Gunnar Hellekson: these are uh what what do you call them? Uh uh uh these David Egts: Shot colors Gunnar Hellekson: are uh uh griffs. These are like was that there was a there was a kind of a a stage in the the the era before the FDA where you had all these like uh electrical cures, David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: you know, you could like, you know, you know, cure alcoholism with a battery and two copper wires, you know, David Egts: Oh yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: um just stick stick it on your tongue and off you David Egts: Or or right. Well, Gunnar Hellekson: go. David Egts: and and uh uh shock therapy uh you know and you know Right. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. That's right. David Egts: uh this is just a a a patented uh way of of doing it um in a in a lower degree. Uh so yeah, and then and think about it too. It's like what if you had like if you wore all of them at the same time like you're wearing the headband for your 00:26:27 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: headache, you you got the wristband for the obesity, another one for nausea, another one for the stimulant. Do they cancel each other out or do you get some accretive benefit? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. or or or you put too many on and eventually you never speak again. Uh yeah, David Egts: You just f with the mouth. Gunnar Hellekson: you just fall in the mouth. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Or or there's like a or there's like some like weird Skinnerite uh thing, right, where like now suddenly uh every time you see a headband, you get real hungry, you know? Something like David Egts: Mhm. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that. David Egts: like you stop wearing it and then then you you you start craving food or you you crave wanting to wear a headband. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Uh so yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. David Egts: All right. So So I'll put you down for a no for that. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's Yeah. No, I'm I'm good. I'm good. 00:27:28 David Egts: Okay. You you could still drink coffee and wear it, Gunnar Hellekson: Thanks, though. David Egts: though. Gunnar Hellekson: I guess that's right. I guess that's right. David Egts: You're really amped up. Gunnar Hellekson: Nobody tells you you got to give it up, right? David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. They're not the boss of you. Um, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: all right. Okay. So, speaking of bosses, uh, postal arbitrage. Yeah, we're all about arbitrage, like finding market inefficiencies and correcting them. Um, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: so, you know, right now, Gunnar Hellekson: sure. David Egts: uh, stamp costs 78 cents uh to mail something in the US, first class stamp. Uh, but some person figured out that if you have Amazon Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: Prime, Amazon Prime sells things for less than.78 that you could buy for somebody, ship it to their house, and then have like a uh like a gift note inside the box. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Of course. David Egts: And it comes in one or two days. 00:28:28 Gunnar Hellekson: Even better. David Egts: Yeah. So, Gunnar Hellekson: Even David Egts: you can you can go to the guy's web page and let's see here. Gunnar Hellekson: better. David Egts: They they up Yep. They just updated it six minutes ago. Um it's like they updated like every I don't know half hour, 15 minutes or something. But, uh yeah. What's What's your favorite in in the list of things that you can mail to Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, David Egts: somebody? Gunnar Hellekson: let's see. Uh, well, I liked the lime, not the lemon. David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, and then the uh the What's David Egts: Yeah. Well, Gunnar Hellekson: that? David Egts: the line that's a better deal. That's 25. Gunnar Hellekson: That's David Egts: So 25 cents you could for the price of one postage stamp. Gunnar Hellekson: right. David Egts: This doesn't even include the cost of the envelope or or the paper or the the pen to write the note. You could just you could send three lines for the price of one letter to three different 00:29:14 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: people or three lines to one Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. David Egts: person. Gunnar Hellekson: I also like the uh uh one package of ramen which I think is nice. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: I mean that's something everybody everybody wants everybody can use, David Egts: you chicken or beef? Gunnar Hellekson: you know. David Egts: Uh it 29 cents for the the chicken, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: 47 cents for the beef. So yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Think think twice before you how much you like that person, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: right? If you really want to buy up um Yeah, Gunnar Hellekson: And then he sent me the chicken ramen. David Egts: you could you skate. Gunnar Hellekson: It's over. David Egts: Yeah. Um, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: yeah. You could send somebody some uh uh let's see. Uh yeah, you could send somebody some Yo play. You could uh uh item05320 obsolete. Uh you could send them one of those for 74 cents. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: Um yeah, but lot lot. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: You could send send somebody a potato if you want. Valentine's Day is coming up, people. So, it's like get your get your orders in. Gunnar Hellekson: So good. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: So much fun. David Egts: Yeah. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. David Egts: So, if people need to send a cucumber uh to uh somebody Gunnar Hellekson: H. David Egts: or get a hold of uh uh uh one of those wristbands to Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: electrocute themselves to uh and and to quit their coffee addiction, uh where where should they Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, they need to go to uh dgshow.org. David Egts: go? Gunnar Hellekson: Uh that's D isn't Dave. G is in Gunnar show.org. David Egts: Awesome. All right, Gunnar. Transcription ended after 00:31:14 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.