00:00:00
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Happy new year, Dave.
David Egts: Yeah, you too. What's going
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh,
David Egts: on?
Gunnar Hellekson: I have succumbed to the birding disease.
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's like bird flu
Gunnar Hellekson: I've started No,
David Egts: or
Gunnar Hellekson: I've started uh I've started birding in earnest, like keeping lists and taking photographs of birds and making specific trips to go find birds and stuff like that.
David Egts: So essentially it's a cry for
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah,
David Egts: help.
Gunnar Hellekson: it's a it's a it's a it's a natural consequence of turning 50, I feel.
David Egts: Okay. All right.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: All right. So instead of the Corvette,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah,
David Egts: you went with the the birding.
Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. I went with the bird. That's right. Uh,
David Egts: Okay.
Gunnar Hellekson: and so I, you know, so I'm on EIRD and and logging all my bird sightings and stuff like this. And I wanted to recommend to you this documentary I found on YouTube called Listers,
 
 
00:00:55
 
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: uh,
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: which is about a very weird subculture inside the birding world, uh, that kind of compulsively keeps track of and lists the bird species that they find.
David Egts: Yes. Yes. And it's so weirdness inside weirdness.
Gunnar Hellekson: weirdness inside. But it like even other burers are like the listers are weird, right?
David Egts: Yeah. Right.
Gunnar Hellekson: Um and uh so this movie is about two brothers who decide to live out of their
David Egts: Right.
Gunnar Hellekson: van and just go have a big year uh in birding. Uh and uh and in a big year you get as many species as you can within the course of a single
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: year. Um and so they just drive around the United States meeting other burers. But the the thing is they've never bured before in their lives. they don't know anything about birding and they just decided as they say in the movie um the only way to learn how to do this is try to do it at the highest level and so they they jumped in head first and uh the movie is fun and uh funny uh and even if you
 
 
00:01:55
 
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: have no interest in birding it's a it's a good time so strongly recommend it and the best part Dave is that it's free on YouTube you can just go watch it right now
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, I I saw the the the trailer and it was very polished. It looks like a Netflix sort of documentary uh with with all the maps and animations and stuff. So, it's it's definitely something to check out.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great time. It's a great time. Uh so you tell me you got a you have an update on your mowing adventure.
David Egts: Yeah. Situation. Yeah. Yeah. So, remember couple episodes I I like called and it's like the hold time is like an hour or whatever, you know? Uh, and then I mowen will actually give out uh spare parts and and had a delightful experience with uh like I have a drip in my one uh shower in in the house and I'm on I'm on the phone with uh the person.
 
 
00:02:48
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: They're like, "Well, what model is it?" Like, "I don't know. It's brushed nickel, you know, and it's, you know, I it's it's the one that water comes out of it. Has a handle on it." and and they're like, "Well, send us a picture." And I'm like, "Okay." And I'm like on the phone talking to them and so it's like I they're like, "Well, where do I send the pictures?" And just send it to pixmo.com. Okay. And and like how do you know it's me?
Gunnar Hellekson: Hello.
David Egts: Just put your name in the subject. And then I guess it's like essentially viewable uh you know, mailbox. She saw it. She she picked it out of a lineup and said, "Oh, that's the part that that that's the thing you have. This is a part you need. We're going to send you the part and we're going to send you a coupon for 75% off of everything at moan uh on our website." And I'm like,
 
 
00:03:48
 
David Egts: "Thanks." It was great. And so, um, like a half hour before I, uh, we we started recording, I the part showed up. I I I even bought a cartridge puller uh which is uh works pretty well
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, nice.
David Egts: to pull your cartridges out if they get stuck and all like wedged in there,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah,
David Egts: but uh about halfway through it.
Gunnar Hellekson: right.
David Egts: I got I got to put the new one in and it's not going in quite right. Uh I I don't know if I should force it or what, but it's uh but I'm working on it. I'm very pleased with Mowen. Uh so so I'm a fan and especially because Mowen is uh their headquarters is uh right outside of Cleveland here.
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh yeah, right. Oh, that's great.
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: Man, it's so rare you hear about a good interaction with a company in
David Egts: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. They picked up right away.
Gunnar Hellekson: general.
 
 
00:04:34
 
David Egts: They were like, you know, I'm like, "Send me a picture." I'm like, "This has to be a trick." It, you know, it's like they, you know, how am I going to get you this picture?
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: And it's like, "Yeah, just send it here." It was like frictionless. And they're like, "We'll send you." And it was no no questions asked. You know, they they mailed the part and everything and it didn't cost me anything. So, uh, very pleased.
Gunnar Hellekson: Fantastic. That's great.
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: Thanks,
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. And did did you ever see,
Gunnar Hellekson: moment.
David Egts: speaking of Netflix, did you ever see uh the the limited series Death by Lightning?
Gunnar Hellekson: No, I don't think I did.
David Egts: Yeah. So, um star-studded lineup. It's it's quite possibly the best biopic uh of uh for James Garfield that you'll see all year long.
Gunnar Hellekson: this great and and it's a and it's a thick field too of uh of James
 
 
00:05:31
 
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. It It'll simultaneously be the best and worst one you would see all year.
Gunnar Hellekson: Garfield.
David Egts: Uh so yes. Yeah. But it was actually it was pretty great. It's like one of those ones that it's like you smile the whole way through it and it was funny and uh it it has a bunch of stars in it. It has uh um I forget their names right now, but uh and I probably if I mentioned them, they would be like, I don't know who those are, but if you saw the people, you would be you would totally get it. Like one of them was from Succession. Uh and then there was uh another guy that was from uh Boardwalk Empire and all that. So, uh it's it was a good show.
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, that's great. That's great.
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Highly recommend it.
Gunnar Hellekson: Very cool.
David Egts: uh if if you're a James Garfield fan who also speaking of Ohio uh he's from uh just outside of Cleveland as well in uh Mentor Ohio.
 
 
00:06:24
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Ah, all right. It all comes
David Egts: Mhm. Yep.
Gunnar Hellekson: together.
David Egts: Yep. Something in the water I guess. Brought to you by mowing.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's
David Egts: Yeah. So,
Gunnar Hellekson: great.
David Egts: uh yeah. So, this week we got uh uh we're going to be talking about AI for prison inmates, uh AI for senior citizens and lowcost hack exo suits. Uh so, if people need to get the uh the the link to watch that uh burning documentary, uh where should we send
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, they need to go to dgshow.org.
David Egts: them?
Gunnar Hellekson: That's D as in Dave. G is in
David Egts: Okay.
Gunnar Hellekson: gunnershow.org.
David Egts: Yeah. And then in the cutting room floor, uh we got uh any crap, which is it brings impossible products to life. So what what's your take on
Gunnar Hellekson: It was great.
David Egts: that?
Gunnar Hellekson: So, it's uh well, it looks like your average shopping website, but uh the real the real secret sauce is uh hit the search bar for anything and it'll make it up if it doesn't have it.
 
 
00:07:26
 
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: And so,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: uh I uh I I commissioned a donut hole repair tool uh which it took about 30 seconds and it was like,
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: "Oh, here we go. Donut hole repair uh and complete with a spec sheet and a price and
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: all the other stuff." What what did you what did you make,
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: Dave?
David Egts: Uh Dave and Gunner show uh podcast bobbleheads.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. And uh Dave,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: remind me, what's the uh velocity variability of the bobbling
David Egts: uh plus or minus 35 degree deviation per
Gunnar Hellekson: heads?
David Egts: minute
Gunnar Hellekson: That's good.
David Egts: approximately.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's good. That That's within the thresholds. So that's that's great.
David Egts: Mhm. Yeah. Well, they also have a topic cluster awareness of 94 distinct subtopics.
Gunnar Hellekson: It's
David Egts: And then like the way to to keep the site alive is that whatever the product
Gunnar Hellekson: great.
 
 
00:08:21
 
David Egts: is, you could actually be the holder of the the the product that you invent or somebody else invents. So you basically give them a dollar and then you are now the I guess the holder or the owner of that product. And then um but somebody else once they uh like say uh I buy the bobbleheads for a a dollar or I'm the holder of it, you could come in with $2 and and take over and then I could come back with four
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh,
David Egts: or three or whatever and and uh add in an item.
Gunnar Hellekson: I see. I see.
David Egts: Yep.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. That's great.
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: Good time.
David Egts: And then uh let's see. There's I I'm I'm not a robot. Uh, so if you like captures, that's a good
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right.
David Egts: one.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. And way more fun than the VOC comp test.
David Egts: Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: so and you could spend a long time doing uh with that uh what you and I both got up to what level 11 uh before we like quit uh for a while.
 
 
00:09:22
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's Yeah.
David Egts: But uh yeah,
Gunnar Hellekson: So, I guess that means we're level 11 humans or maybe level 11 robots.
David Egts: so you got that right.
Gunnar Hellekson: I don't know.
David Egts: Yeah, we we may not have proven it uh uh totally yet. So, yeah. And then um speaking of robots, there's the the Claude Biodome. Uh so, there's I guess Claude controlling a a geranium with a tomato plant in
Gunnar Hellekson: Yep. Yep. Yep.
David Egts: it.
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh so the and the claw controls the humidity, the temperature, the amount of watering. Um, and uh I don't I don't know about you, Dave, when when I looked at it, it said, "Oh, it looks like my hum my moisture sensor is broken, but I know that I need to give it 200 milliliters of water every six hours or whatever it is. And even though the sensor is broken, I think there's a good chance I still need to water it. So, I'm going to go ahead and water it." Um,
 
 
00:10:13
 
Gunnar Hellekson: it was very,
David Egts: Yep.
Gunnar Hellekson: very sophisticated. It was really cool.
David Egts: Yeah. To me, it just the first thing that I thought about was the like fast forward like I don't know 50 years when you had the cryionic chambers or controlled by AI that as as you're on your interplanetary interstellar missions and uh cloud's keeping you alive there instead of 200 milliliters or whatever it's it's you know keeping the ship flying and and you alive.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right.
David Egts: So yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Problem
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: solved.
David Egts: So anyhow, speaking of solving problems, uh let's see, AI in prison.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: Um so you know how there's like uh uh like you know people are in prison and then they call and then it's like a collect call from blah blah blah and then it's like very expensive and you know the the prisoner would pay for it. Um what they're doing now is the people that provide the telecommunication service are using the recordings to uh train AI models uh to help predict crime.
 
 
00:11:22
 
Gunnar Hellekson: because they feel like a lot of crime is is being transacted on these jail house phone calls.
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. So basically it's like contraband coming in or somebody's putting a hit on somebody else and everything.
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh Mhm.
David Egts: So, um, and the thing is is that it's like, you know, the the article is saying that the people that run the telecom service and they're like, well, it's expensive because we have to have people monitor the phone lines. And then there were laws that were enacted that like make the cost not extortionary. And so the the they're pushing the price of the calls down, which means that people can't monitor the phone calls, all the phone calls all the time. And so they're here's a great way to use AI models to um to be able to listen in on the phone calls and then uh escalate to a human if it detects something suspicious that was uh suspicious that was set.
Gunnar Hellekson: This is super gross. This is pretty
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah.
 
 
00:12:30
 
David Egts: One one of the people that was uh vocally against it,
Gunnar Hellekson: gross.
David Egts: they they basically said, "Not only are you compensating them for the use of their not only are you not compensating them for the use of their data, you're actually charging them while collecting the data and basically charging them for crimes too at the same
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah.
David Egts: time.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Um well I mean the whole idea of having the dedicated phone service is punitive right like there's no reason for that phone service to be as expensive as it is right um it's a bunch of I feels like graph to me it just feels feels like a very corrupt practice you know
David Egts: Well,
Gunnar Hellekson: um
David Egts: it's taking advantage of the people that can't a the people that are most vulnerable, right?
Gunnar Hellekson: yes
David Egts: And and so if you want to get them out of a bad thing,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: it's like this is just holding them down more, which is kind of bad.
 
 
00:13:26
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. I'm not
David Egts: But what what do you Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: sure.
David Egts: And and I think too like you know the cost of phone calls is near zero these days but um what about their comment about well what about all the crime that happens and monitoring the phone for and all that where you know it's like people would censor mail and emails and text messages and everything and like how do you just leave it wide open and let them communicate however they want or or how do you put safeguards in to prevent bad things from happening?
Gunnar Hellekson: Well,
David Egts: Or should should
Gunnar Hellekson: you know, it's Yeah, it's funny. I don't actually object to monitoring the calls,
David Egts: they?
Gunnar Hellekson: and I don't even object to using an AI to monitor the calls. It's the idea that this company, it's it's how we got here, which is the company had what I'm certain is an outrageous margin on the phone calls.
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: They they tried they justified this margin by having humans listen in on the on the conversations.
 
 
00:14:24
 
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: They could no longer have the humans in the conversations, which means they could no longer justify the margins that they had. And so now they're backing into another even more exploitative
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: business. in order to justify the extraordinary margins.
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: You see what I mean? Um like this is not the market at work like not not not the way that we want,
David Egts: Yeah. Well, and well,
Gunnar Hellekson: right?
David Egts: and also imagine the meetings like the internal meetings at that company of like what are we doing with AI?
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: let's uh you know and there there's the brainstorming offsite and here's your result and and
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. That's right. Mhm.
David Egts: uh so it's like oh you know here's and they're reporting to their investors of how they're going to maintain their margins by adding AI to this and and then also the getting any sort of economic lift by saying that it's like now it's you know AI powered uh service instead of just like a plain old phone recording
 
 
00:15:19
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Um, yeah. Don't care for this at all. I like this about as much as I like flot
David Egts: Okay. All right.
Gunnar Hellekson: cameras.
David Egts: All right. So, how about I got another one for you. Uh, this one's a little bit more uh I'd love your take on it. So, here's how about AI chat bots for senior citizens.
Gunnar Hellekson: M okay. All right. I'm I'm still listening.
David Egts: Yeah. Okay.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: So, uh, some of the services, one of them is like $29 a month for unlimited calls. There's another one that's $40 a month where, um, an AI would call a senior citizen on their phone, so on their landline, at their house, in the retirement community or whatever, and it says, "Hey, I'm an AI." Uh, just, you know, to be upfront, a reminder of them, and let's have a conversation. and and so they're using the voice activated AI just like you know people do with Gemini or with uh chat GPT the live audio but it's more telephonebased and the this subscription that
 
 
00:16:28
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: uh I guess you know uh you pay for the the children of the elderly people or whatever they pay for the subscription um and the goal is to you know provide stimulus to the elderly person and some uh companionship and and have them be cognitively active and have them, you know, remember about the time of blah blah blah. And they could tell stories and and they could ask questions about how their day was and they go back and forth and they have all the calls and um and they can, you know, they could call them every day, I guess, at at certain times of the day. Um so what are you thinking now?
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: Are you sold? Good.
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh I feel like like shouldn't
David Egts: Bad.
Gunnar Hellekson: that uh so obviously like not preferable to human companionship, actual human companionship, but also I'm wondering like they're they're talking about this with a kind of a therapeutic lens, right? And I'm wondering like are there not enough therapists in the world
 
 
00:17:31
 
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Well,
Gunnar Hellekson: or is this just like a scale thing?
David Egts: or or I think it's a scale thing and like give everybody a therapist and and it's not really a therapist.
Gunnar Hellekson: Right.
David Egts: It's more of like companionship and so somebody's imagine they're alone at their
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: house and you know that this is somebody that's going to call them and and check in on them, see how they're doing and everything. And uh it's allows them to you know speak their mind and and talk about things and tell stories and uh they also the other thing that it does is like there's some pre-program prompts but some of the services will also do like uh a notes like a transcription of the call or provide highle notes and give that back to the owner of the subscription like back to the the children who pay for the service to basically inform them of how the call went and and anything that they
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: should be concerned about.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that seems like it steps over a line, doesn't it?
 
 
00:18:38
 
David Egts: I think so. And and to me,
Gunnar Hellekson: That seems like that seems like that seems like a uh that seems
David Egts: yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: like now what the AI is doing the job of the children, right? If this was a completely confidential conversation, there would be, you know, I kind of like reluctantly like, okay, maybe maybe that could be helpful, you know, like you say, like scaling the human interaction in a particular way,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: but um snitching on them and then sending the results back to the
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: children is very clearly the AI agent acting as a proxy for the children,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: right?
David Egts: Right. And that's where I think there's like the it's it's a gradient where it's not black and white where is it good or is it bad and and you know all of a sudden the child gets a report back saying about how terrible the child is that the child never calls the parent and or or whatever
Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Right.
David Egts: you know and or it's manipulative where it's like you know saying about oh I'm gonna
 
 
00:19:30
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: give the inheritance to blah blah blah and and it's like you know or whatever it's I can imagine that just going going the wrong way. And the other part too is that, you know, I know like with my mom, she would it, you know, we had the landline, she would always be picking the phone up and and she would be talking to the scammers all day long, you know, about, you know, oh,
Gunnar Hellekson: Thank you.
David Egts: electricity changing or whatever. and you know and and she would always pick the phone up and the and she would also like whatever was on the screen like if it was TV she would take it as like well they wouldn't put it on the TV if it wasn't
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: true and you know like that sort of like Walter Kankite sort of like it's it's been
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: vetted and everything and I I'm like telling her it's like this stuff on YouTube is anybody could put that up there like any two idiots could,
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
 
 
00:20:32
 
David Egts: you know, create their own podcast and put it out there and, you know, and it's like they could say anything they want, you know, and she's like, "No, that's that's not true." I'm like, "Yeah." and and so so for her it's like for her to get like phone calls of like during the day and and like I can imagine somebody that they also do the the test to see if somebody is cognitively declining and they could tell they could that you know they're not going to sell the service to somebody that is like they can't tell the difference between an AI or not but I can imagine over time that you know as as people's mental capacities decline that it I like I think that could be bad. And then all of a sudden it's like what what happens if somebody is calling the house and then they're acting like the AI and it's like oh here's your call from this isn't you know Bob the
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: bot this is Joe the bot the the the friend of the other bot and this is a I'm I'm a bot and all of a sudden it's like you have this daily caller that is like informing them of what they should be
 
 
00:21:31
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: doing or they you should be buying Bitcoin or whatever and I can imagine that going so wrong so easily.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Um, the thing that this and the prison item have in common is now it's AI being turned on those who are most vulnerable,
David Egts: Yes. Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: which is I think where That's right.
David Egts: They have the least amount of agency.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. And I don't think that that's a mistake, right? Um,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: if this was a thing that was safe and effective and useful for anyone, then it would be something that would be marketed to a broad set of things. Instead, we're talking about something that is therefore like a captive set of a captive audience, right? Um,
David Egts: Yeah. Well,
Gunnar Hellekson: yeah.
David Egts: I could imagine like the the AI calling the lonely seniors that being like that's a pitch deck and and it's like here's the market that we're going after and I'm sure
 
 
00:22:38
 
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: the people that are creating most of the people that are creating these companies probably have good intentions where it's like,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yes.
David Egts: you know, I I don't have here's a way to help children scale their time, you know,
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: their ability to give time and attention to their parents that they wouldn't be able to
Gunnar Hellekson: Right.
David Egts: do, but then there's crossing the line of like totally outsourcing it to the AI of like, oh,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: I I'll just wait for the transcript to come in to see how they're doing, you know,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah.
David Egts: and instead of like them being the lead ones having the conversations. Um,
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: and then there's also the human dignity part of it of like I don't think you're worth my time and and so I'm just going to let an AI talk to you and talked about all your old stories I've heard a
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: thousand times, you know?
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right.
David Egts: So, I don't know.
 
 
00:23:31
 
David Egts: I don't know.
Gunnar Hellekson: I think the
David Egts: But they they want to have it covered by the by insurance, too,
Gunnar Hellekson: uh
David Egts: because they're like, "Well, it could help out with depression and anxiety." So, this this would be, you know, a it's cheaper than therapy, you know, that that by going this
Gunnar Hellekson: yeah well it's important to remember that the logic of the market is not a moral
David Egts: route.
Gunnar Hellekson: logic right just because the mark just because it makes sense in the context of the market does not mean that it
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: is good. Um,
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. Ah, it's gross.
David Egts: All right. So, we're 0 for two. Okay.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yep.
David Egts: Let's see. Let's third one.
Gunnar Hellekson: Thanks.
David Egts: Third one.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yep.
David Egts: Uh, how about a lowcost haptic exo suit?
Gunnar Hellekson: I'm listening.
David Egts: Yes. Yeah. So, um, so you could see in the show notes there's a threeminute video which is pretty cool and it and it's how how would you describe the exo suit?
 
 
00:24:24
 
David Egts: What is what does it look like to you?
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, well, it's a it's a vest with a lot of strings and pulleys on it. Um, but doesn't look kind of uh it doesn't look encumbering or ridiculous in the way that you think it's going
David Egts: Mhm.
Gunnar Hellekson: to. It's actually relatively streamlined,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: right?
David Egts: Yeah. Like there's like the strings uh attached to like this vest and and the strings can like pull your head back. It could it could put tension on your hands like you you have these like uh things that you it almost looks like uh like a grip that you put on your hands and then there's like pulleys on them and it would tug on them and it would tug on your feet and everything and it would uh provide haptics where it's like it would push back on things and uh it you know according to the video it says it could simulate handshakes, high fives and hugs um and and So,
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: it's these motorized pulleys.
 
 
00:25:23
 
David Egts: Um, and like you said, it's like ah p, you know, it's like you're wearing this pulley thing. Like, I could imagine putting it on and I'm all tangled up in it and there's cables everywhere and everything. It seems pretty clean. You know, that this woman snaps this thing on in like 10 seconds.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: Like, it looks like a like a vest,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: like a life vest that you snap on.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. That's right.
David Egts: And then you you uh put the straps over your feet, you put the straps on your hand. Now, now you could like you could walk around and it it provides that tension back.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's
David Egts: And they said that it works uh it weighs 4.6 kg and it
Gunnar Hellekson: right.
David Egts: could run for 6 hours on a single charge. And uh and it the cost is slated to be under
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. And so what's cool is when you tie it into like a VR system,
David Egts: $500.
 
 
00:26:10
 
Gunnar Hellekson: you know, one of the examples they use is like simulating riding on a train.
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: Uh this thing can actually create both the sway as well as the micro vibrations that you get on a train. It can actually simulate those. If you are in a VR environment and you reach out for a solid object, the system will halt your hand to simulate like
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: actually touching a physical object.
David Egts: Yeah. And or like it'll make you feel like you're under a waterfall. Like it'll make you feel like like stuff is, you know, landing on top of you.
Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm.
David Egts: And um but I wonder if it like you know like there like the the one thing that I noticed in the video it says that it could the pulleys could make it feel like you're in a high gravity environment because it would make it harder for you to walk but it's not going to make it feel like
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: a low gravity environment like it's not going to make you float right.
 
 
00:27:04
 
Gunnar Hellekson: No, no, no.
David Egts: Um,
Gunnar Hellekson: You need a different set of police for that.
David Egts: so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh but yeah,
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: how how would you like I then then I had this picture this mental picture of like a conference room full of people wearing their haptic suits with their headsets on uh in the business environment uh having like a a QBR or a a a code review or something.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: Um and what what do you think some of the uh business uses are for
Gunnar Hellekson: Oh,
David Egts: that?
Gunnar Hellekson: I like the idea of uh uh the your your the anger of your boss can now be physically manifested in you, right? So like as the intensity of the speech increases,
David Egts: Yes.
Gunnar Hellekson: now suddenly you're getting a a slow vibration running through your body. Um I think that could be helpful. I think it could be helpful,
David Egts: Yeah. And and the physical violence uh would be nice too,
 
 
00:27:56
 
Gunnar Hellekson: right? Yeah. No, that's what I was going to say.
David Egts: right?
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right.
David Egts: It's so you
Gunnar Hellekson: You could actually uh you could actually freeze people in place as you're uh asking them about their Q4 results, right? Make it so heavy they can't move at all.
David Egts: Yes. And what what their commit is.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right.
David Egts: Uh yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. It's like a It's like a very humane force
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: choke.
David Egts: Yeah. And it can be done anywhere. It could, you know, so instead of having to people have people come into the office, it could be done anywhere.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's
David Egts: Uh you could do it over Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: right.
David Egts: So you you could have that that physical uh uh aspect without having to go into the
Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. That's right.
David Egts: office,
Gunnar Hellekson: It would certainly keep the code reviews brisk.
David Egts: right? Yeah. Yeah.
 
 
00:28:39
 
David Egts: I uh Yeah. I I put in a a picture I shared with my daughter which she loved uh is that the the four out of five code developers enjoy code reviews and it has like is it four people just just beating down another person? And it looks like something out of the Roman Empire.
Gunnar Hellekson: That's Yeah,
David Egts: Yeah.
Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. Yeah, that's right.
David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's what we got. Um so all right. So what do you say?
Gunnar Hellekson: One of one of one of Well,
David Egts: One of three or.5
Gunnar Hellekson: like five of three. How about that? How about that? Yeah.
David Egts: out. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah.
David Egts: All right. Okay. So, if people need to get one of these haptic suits, do some birding, um, or or need one of those emergency donut hole repair kits, uh, where should we send them? Awesome. All right. Thanks, Gunnar. Thanks everybody for listening.
 
 
Transcription ended after 00:29:49