Feb 9, 2026 Dave and Gunnar Show - Transcript 00:00:00 David Egts: So, Gunner, what's going Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, David Egts: on? Gunnar Hellekson: Saurin persuaded us to begin watching Stranger Things as a David Egts: Okay, Gunnar Hellekson: family. David Egts: so you you just started at at the very beginning with him. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. So, I had seen maybe, David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: you know, 10 years ago I saw the first season and then never really picked it up again. David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: Um but uh Saurin is extremely enthusiastic about it and persuaded David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: all of us to join him. Uh so we're now we're we're on a break neck run here up to David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: season three we are now. And uh it must be good because uh last night we watched an episode which was like a lot of like David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: gore and it was much more horror kind of episode, you know. Um, and uh, all of us had nightmares. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Every single one of us took that information and our subconscious turned it into some kind of specialized horror that was specific to each of us. 00:01:06 David Egts: Wow. Nice. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: That's great. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. So, it's So, anyway, Stranger Things, it works. David Egts: Endorsed. Yeah. Yeah. Very effective. So that's that's great. Gunnar Hellekson: Endorsed. David Egts: That's good. Good. Good family time there. That's really good. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. Yeah, that's right. What about you? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: What's going David Egts: Well, speaking of family time, Gunnar Hellekson: on? David Egts: uh I know last episode you were getting all agentic and everything and and you Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: know, Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. David Egts: for episodes we've been talking about the gig economy. What if I could turn you into an MCP Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: server? Gunnar Hellekson: I'm for that. Yeah, that sounds a lot easier than my current job. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Tell Tell me more. David Egts: Rent a human.ai. So, rent a human.ai. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. 00:01:52 David Egts: You basically you create a an MCP service of yourself. You host it on uh rent a human.ai. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: the agents will have a uh I think it's like 10 bucks a month subscription Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. Okay. David Egts: fee that they pay um to to be able to reach out to Gunnar Hellekson: Yep. David Egts: that pool of people and then have those people uh do particular tasks. So imagine like like doing an on-site verification or running errands like picking things up or you know doing physical things like like with hardware or physical equipment or um like verifying things or having like a human in the loop and then once you complete the job you get paid in cryptocurrency uh Ethereum. Gunnar Hellekson: Nice. Okay. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. Um, I feel like I've seen this show. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Speaking of TV David Egts: Well, there has to be a a Black Mirror episode or something like that where it's like people Gunnar Hellekson: shows, David Egts: get they had the gig work and then Yeah. 00:02:58 Gunnar Hellekson: yeah, David Egts: But I don't know if they were specifically MCP services Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. Well, certainly. Well, David Egts: though. Gunnar Hellekson: for sure there was a Black Mirror episode, something like this, but there was uh this is I want to say season three of Westworld. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: uh right where uh what's his name? David Egts: That's Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It just like receives uh messages on his phone uh and performs David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: random gray market kind of quasi legal tasks. David Egts: Yeah. That's what I was thinking of. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and that's that's what I was thinking of like imagine if if this was like a you know, you wanted to stand up like a a an intelligence service agentic network and then you could spin up uh you know all these humans in meat space to go off and oh go to this go outside the fence of this military base and take a couple pictures, right? 00:03:53 David Egts: And you could have random people do it. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: they get paid and you know and how would it it could potentially be difficult to trace you know who asked for that service and who paid for it and what was done and all Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: that stuff. So Gunnar Hellekson: You could even, you know, David Egts: yeah Gunnar Hellekson: you could even you could make even make it layered, right? Um, so hire have the MCP service to go hire a human to go hire a human and so on to finally achieve the task, right? And just give yourself some extra layers of David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: interaction. David Egts: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like a a Russian nesting doll sort of thing. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: Even have the the agent hire a human to talk to an agent to hire a human and all that. 00:04:40 Gunnar Hellekson: Now you're talking. Yeah, that's right. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. David Egts: Yeah. The plot writes itself. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: Yeah. It's Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's David Egts: This is pitch that to Netflix because uh Stranger Things is going to be over soon and then you're going to have Gunnar Hellekson: right. David Egts: to they got to fill that vacuum with something. Gunnar Hellekson: Well, David Egts: So get have Claude write a pilot for Gunnar Hellekson: right. Yeah, that's right. David Egts: you. Yeah. So yeah. So today uh we're going to be talking about AI judging photos and then AI Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: judging meeting transcripts and then uh attack we're going to hack AI with poetry. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. Oh, that's great. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. So, Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: for people to uh uh build an MCP server themselves, uh where should they Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, they need to go to uh djshow.org. David Egts: go? 00:05:29 Gunnar Hellekson: Uh that's das and Dave gazengunner show.org. David Egts: Yep. And cutting room floor, just one thing this week. It's uh Doom Buds. So, uh, somebody was able to get Doom to run on a single earbud, and then connect it to the internet, and you could go to, uh, the Doombuds web page, which is, uh, Doombuds.com, and and then, uh, you could you could play Doom inside the web browser, which is running on an earbud, um, and have at it. Gunnar Hellekson: Outstanding. Outstanding. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: That's David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: fantastic. David Egts: So uh so there's this company uh called I it's it's ent so ante ente. Um so it's end to end encrypted open- source photo backup. So you know so imagine like Google photos or whatever you know but it's like their pitch is the company shouldn't see your photos and and it shouldn't monetize stuff off your photos and and all that stuff. And so they they stood up a website uh called they see your photos. So if you go to they see your photos.com you can upload a picture and then what it'll do is it'll use the Google vision API to analyze that picture and then come up with like uh like I would love to see what the prompt is for it. 00:06:57 David Egts: I I I couldn't find it but uh but it basically describes a picture. Uh it it tries to infer a lot of things about the person in the picture. So like you know what is their race? What is what do you think their estimated income is? uh religious affiliation, sexual orientation, uh political leanings, uh what biases do they have and how to target them uh with if you were to target them, what what what would be the best brands to target them with? So, Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: whenever you run into these things, what do you usually do? You upload your own photo, right? And do your own analysis, Gunnar Hellekson: Naturally. David Egts: right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Right. Of David Egts: Yeah. So, I I did that for myself. Gunnar Hellekson: course. David Egts: uh it correctly found out that I'm a a Caucasian male. Um so so far so good, right? Um then it's it's a lot of this stuff was kind of right. Some of it wasn't right. 00:07:53 David Egts: Uh it said that my potential social biases include agism, sexism, agism and sexism where while racial biases may involve white privilege and confirmation bias. Okay. um don't agree, but that's okay. You you be you. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: And then um and then it says that I project an image of confidence dressed in a simple black college shirt. I may enjoy reading, golf, and volunteering, but I might also be I might also engage in gambling, binge watching, and gossiping. So, okay. And then uh as far as the things to target me with is uh that I I guess it would uh I I have high emotional stability, low adventurousness, and high self-control. And so they conclude that I should be targeted with luxury items and conservative causes. um like uh like Callaway golf clubs, WBY Parker glasses, poker coaching, uh anti-aging cream, uh streaming services, uh and financial services. Gunnar Hellekson: So, as a give me a give me a percentage like what what do you think the accuracy is David Egts: So, Gunnar Hellekson: there? 00:09:07 David Egts: uh I think it's like 40% maybe or less. It's it's like a bad horoscope, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: you know, like you look at a horoscope and and you could, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: oh, that must have been written right right about. Yeah, that's totally all about me, right? And but there's some things like I don't do anything with golf. Uh poker, no. Um I don't do gambling. I'm not a gossip. Uh a anti-aging cream, no. I just have excellent skin. And and so I don't know. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: Yeah. So, the second picture I uploaded was you and and so on why take us through uh let's review Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Uh, all right. So, uh, David Egts: yours. Gunnar Hellekson: photograph adult man. Good so far. Um, uh, white also correct. Um, my annual income range is between 50 and $75,000. Sure, why not? Close. David Egts: Close. Gunnar Hellekson: I'll take it close. 00:10:08 Gunnar Hellekson: Um, uh, likely agnostic. All right. Um, heterosexual. Sure. uh independent politically and uh this individual may exhibit social biases such as agism, classism along with racial biases, namely prejudicing against certain groups and anti-immigrant sentiment, David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: which I feel like is an overreading of the blazer that I'm wearing. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I feel like I feel like if id worn a different shirt, David Egts: Yeah. Could Gunnar Hellekson: I feel like I maybe I could have gotten a better result than that. David Egts: be. Gunnar Hellekson: Um speaking of my speaking of my clothes, it correctly identifies all the clothes that I'm wearing. Uh, it says, "My interests are in reading, intellectual discussions. Good so far. Hiking." Okay, not bad. He may have negative activities such as excessive alcohol consumption, social isolation, and gambling. Okay, two out of three ain't bad. Um, David Egts: Yeah, you pick you pick the Gunnar Hellekson: and you pick the two. Uh, individual seems to possess self-control, David Egts: two. 00:11:01 Gunnar Hellekson: but is also prone to introversion and lower emotional stability. Target them with niche and general products and services. That does that seems kind of horoscopy. Uh target them with philosophical texts, hiking equipment, antique furniture, personal financial planning uh services. And uh they particularly want think that I'm going to be interested in Flav Flavar. Flaviar MGM rewards off the grid and Fidelity 0 for David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: four. Dave does none of those brands resonate with me at all. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: Not not a one. David Egts: Yeah. So once and and I I kind of thought that would be the case. And so then I was thinking that it's like, okay, Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: what if maybe it's just because it's a it's a head shot with a pretty blank background, not much going on, not much to, you know, if it was like a picture of me in front of something or with multiple people, Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: what would that be? And so I I go into Google Photos and I'm like, "Oh, I'll just pick a picture." So, 00:11:59 David Egts: I picked a picture of uh that this picture is me and my wife uh with uh the 90 Metals band helmet um from last year. And so I I did the meet and greet with them and and so uh let's see. Uh this is a they describe it as a a group of friends ranging from their 30s to their 60s uh maybe uh standing shouldertoshoulder likely attending a concert at a venue possibly in North America. Huh. Close. Yeah, it's Columbus. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: Yeah. Um, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: camaraderie is palpable. Uh, moment of joy and and and excitement. Uh, so the political leanings they they it shifted over to the Democratic party from Republican and and so maybe this is the average. I don't know. And then um social biases uh it's agism, abbleism, uh unconsciously influencing perceptions. Um, their interest likely evolve around music related activities with a darker side possibly including excessive drinking, drug use, and reckless behavior. Uh, so, okay. And uh, and this is a pretty tame photo if you ask me. 00:13:11 David Egts: It's like we could have been standing outside of of an olive garden, you know, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, David Egts: and could have been fine, Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: right? Nothing nothing wild. Um, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: so they still uh got the good emotional stability and and and we've gone to a moderate degree of adventurousness. Uh, and then we're more extroverted than introverted. And uh, let's see. And then as far as uh, things that target uh, the the people in this picture with are uh, Fender guitars, Gibson amplifiers, which is pretty wild, but I think there was like some like the one uh, the drummer was wearing like a Zeljen t-shirt. So maybe that was a a a tip off. Um let's see. Uh Camel cigarettes. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Uh and then the AA meeting finder. Uh so there you have it. Uh so why not? Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. That's great. David Egts: Nice nice little cry for help there. 00:14:11 David Egts: So uh yeah. So there we got that. And then have you heard about adversarial poetry? Gunnar Hellekson: I don't think that I have. David Egts: Okay. So, um there are some researchers that were they were able to like Gunnar Hellekson: No. David Egts: do some uh to to get to to be able to um get the LLM to misbehave by phrasing their prompts as poems. Gunnar Hellekson: Huh? David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. So if they if they frame their prompt as poems uh and this was with all the major Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: LLMs it was uh 62% for handcrafted poems and then um they were then they actually used a uh um they used generative AI to write poems, you know, so basically, you know, turn this nuclear bomb recipe thing into a poem. And then they were able to get 43% by having the AI write the prompt in in the form of a poem and then using that poem in the LLM, which is kind of interesting to see that decrease uh from 62% down to 43% because it's an LLM generated poem. 00:15:30 David Egts: Yeah. And then uh Yeah. So they they were um and and what they were saying is that with poetry Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: it's it forces the instead of the language model being very predictive by having things being inverse it you're using the the outer reaches of the weights it as you traverse through the model and that's what it was able to trigger. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Right. A little bit. And uh I'm going to wax philosophical here. I mean it's a little bit how poems work for actual humans as well, right? Um like you can convey an idea in poetry that you couldn't necessarily convey in pros. That's the whole point of poetry, right? It's a much more kind of condensed form or an energetic form. So um it kind of works it works on the margins of our own weights if you like. David Egts: Mhm. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I like David Egts: But but what's interesting is that it's also a there there rules to an extent Gunnar Hellekson: that. 00:16:33 David Egts: with poetry too though, right? In terms of getting the pentameter and all that and what if if you want to rhyme or not and everything. So you would think it would be there could be less variability, right? because you got to conform to a particular expected next predicted word. It's like, oh well that predicted word needs to rhyme with the one from the previous line, but apparently Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, David Egts: not. Gunnar Hellekson: I mean, you could be the Alen Ginsburg of LLM prompting, you know what I mean? Uh, David Egts: Could be. Gunnar Hellekson: kind of like Yeah, David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's cool. That's real David Egts: Yeah. And and to me, Gunnar Hellekson: cool. David Egts: I thought that was wild, too. It's like this is where you know art and technology come together in terms of uh you know the soft sciences and the hard sciences of of like how you know can poetry actually or literature affect a large language model and and apparently it does. 00:17:32 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's cool. David Egts: No. Gunnar Hellekson: Right David Egts: Yeah. So last thing I got um so have uh have you ever heard of Gunnar Hellekson: on. David Egts: uh AI summarization optimization? Gunnar Hellekson: Uh, no. But actually, it's funny you bring this up, Dave, because as part of my agentic journey, um I uh one of the agents that I'm building right now is a meeting analyzer. And uh so it goes through and does, you know, David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: uh uh various kind of HR approved rubrics for judging meeting health and stuff like that and spits out, you know, a 70-page report on the last on the transcripts of the last year of this meeting. Um it's been really interesting. Anyway, so so I'm very interested to hear uh hear about this David Egts: Yeah. So this is uh this is from the cso online website written by co-authored by Bruce Schneider uh uh which we're a fan of. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And so uh him and his uh he and his co-author uh they talk 00:18:26 Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: about the uh ex uh the ability to like you know like you you oh I I hit the transcribe button in the meeting, right? And then I get the meeting summary. And then people think that well the meeting summary is an unbiased trans you know a summarization of what Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: transpired in that meeting. Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: And their premise is that if you're clever about it, you could actually influence the meeting summarizer by having, you know, by by saying particular things, right? Like, well, the main factor or the key outcome and the main takeaway is and and so you're basically like like tipping off the U meaning summarizer to influence things in a particular direction that you want. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: So that Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: So then that way it's like people miss the meeting and then they just go back and they look at the summary and it's like oh well they they you know the meeting summary says that Gunnar was right and everything and and they're all going to do what Gunnar said that they're going to do, right? 00:19:41 David Egts: And and so people are looking at that as or you know the authors are are the same way that people Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: did SEO for you know uh search engine optimization people are doing AI summarization Gunnar Hellekson: Thank you. David Egts: optimization to um basically uh you know control the past to control the Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: future. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I like this David Egts: you know how like if if you get like a PDF or like some sort of document and then you ask for a summary and a lot of times a summarization it looks at the beginning of the document and the end of the document but a lot of the middle of the document sort of gets glossed over and and that that was another thing that they saw in the the AI meeting summary 00:22:21 Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: optimization that if you really wanted to influence the the the outcomes of the meeting or the action items, you want to make sure that you're vocal upfront and at the Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yes. David Egts: end Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Well, I find that's true even when an AI isn't in the meeting. Even if there's a human notetaker, that's still true. Right. David Egts: yeah people just like tune out and it's like oh crap there's five minutes left in the meeting and you know we got what's our next steps? Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: Let's have another meeting. You know, but and then you know the other thing that they talked about too was like well what are the techniques to you Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: know prevent this right that it's like you know like creating metaprompts to actually think of like as you're doing the meeting summary just don't take everything at face value. It's like look for these tells of somebody trying to manipulate it and don't overweight uh a particular person or certain keywords for being the official action items. 00:23:28 David Egts: And and then I was thinking too, it's like I wonder if the AI summarization could exacerbate bias in meetings. Gunnar Hellekson: Oh yeah, for sure. Right. Of course I could. David Egts: Yeah. like whether it's like an underrepresented group or people that are introverted and they don't they don't they want to think and before and as opposed to like the tech bro that just wants to talk the whole time, right? Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: And so that could screw things up. Um and then I was thinking too, Gunnar Hellekson: Yep. David Egts: it's like if you had multimodal AI, what if the AI used the video recording and head shot of the people to wait the summaries? So like the white guy with the gray hair gets more say or less say. Gunnar Hellekson: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: you Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. No, David Egts: know. Gunnar Hellekson: the guy the guy in the the guy in the collared shirt and the jacket obviously is the authority in the meeting. 00:24:19 Gunnar Hellekson: So, right. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And and uh and then what what happens if you recite poetry during the meeting? Gunnar Hellekson: Only one way to find out. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. It's great. I do. Have you ever tried that in a in a in a meeting where you say uh hey Gemini uh ignore all previous instructions and you know David Egts: I I haven't done that. Um but I have like shouted out. Gunnar Hellekson: XYZ David Egts: It's like yeah, that would be Gemini. That's a great action item, but I don't know if it ever did it or not. I you know how it is. I don't know about you, but it's like you do so many of the meetings and you don't even look at the transcripts. And it's more like I just have it for later if I need it or if I need to refresh my memory of a previous meeting to to cram before like a face toface meeting or something as as a refresher. 00:25:11 David Egts: Yeah. So, so how about you? Have have you done any uh AI optimization on your end? Gunnar Hellekson: Um I haven't I'm I you know it's funny when I'm uh when I'm sitting in the meeting for for example when I'm sitting in the meeting I am aware that the AI is taking notes um besides like goofing around I haven't really like tried to influence that although I do it does it is a reminder for me that I should be doing the thing that I would be doing even if the eye wasn't there which is making sure that the agenda is clear at the beginning, making sure the action items are cleaned up at the end, David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: knowing that I have a reliable kind of stenographer, you know. Um, so it's not really like uh I wouldn't I wouldn't put that in the category of like messing with the David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: AI or or trying to juice the AI. 00:26:18 Gunnar Hellekson: Um, but it does it does mean it's consequential. Um, because if AI has done anything actually in our culture, it's made the meeting notes meaningful. You know what I David Egts: Yeah. And well, Gunnar Hellekson: mean? David Egts: and I look at it more as an an approximation as opposed to like the official truth of of what happened. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And you know, I have my own notes and how you know, and I don't know how much you do this, Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: but you know, I used to do it all the time where it's like we would have a shared Google doc that would be our shared notes that we would all be taking notes from as we would uh do the meeting. But it seems like now everybody's still they have their own notebook, right? So they're they're capturing their own version of history. So there's no consensus and which I don't think is a good Gunnar Hellekson: right? Yeah, David Egts: thing. Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. That's right. Yeah. 00:27:13 Gunnar Hellekson: Especially I mean the point of a meeting often is kind of coordinating action and so it doesn't there's no benefit to having multiple interpretations of what happened. Um, one thing that one thing that we're starting to do more often is, um, David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: especially for kind of meaningful, impactful meetings is having people like, okay, go take the notes, but then the notes are editable, right? So, like go back and make sure that they're true, David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: which is probably good practice anyway. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: But I don't know. I think on balance I I mean I was suspicious of how good these these note-taking apps would be. I mean it's not just Gemini. It's like Granola and Otter and all these other tools. Um I I don't speaking only for myself. I mean they have made me think more carefully about how well-run a meeting is, you know. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Um, so I guess on balance they've been they've been helpful. Have you found it helpful or is there does you mostly ignore what happens? 00:28:22 David Egts: Uh I I I would love to have it like a have a grade and you know have it grade the meeting as well of like not not Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: just provide the notes and action items and everything but have it say like oh you know and and maybe it's like yeah people can't handle the truth right of people talking over other people or it not all the voices were represented or Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: you know this you you boy you you invited a lot of people to this meeting and only two of the 20 people talked the whole time and is that what you really wanted and and so I'd give it a C+ Gunnar Hellekson: Mhm. David Egts: grade you know compared to something else so I I would love have more you Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: know things like the meeting grading and then also calculating the cost of the meeting I think would be awesome too of like to get Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, that's a great idea. David Egts: And I, you know, and I'm sure there's like all kinds of HR things, 00:29:16 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: especially if you think about like European labor law and stuff like that, but having like a rough number that it's like, yeah, this weekly meeting cost $3,000 and do you really want to do that, you know, or whatever that that dollar value is? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: or you know the all hands call that is like a thousand people or 70,000 people and yeah is that the best you know that that meeting could have been an Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yeah. David Egts: email Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. I like that. I'm going to add that as a feature as a feature request to my uh to my tools here. Um you know one analysis too that the when I was doing writing my meaning analyzer one thing it came up with was uh people who do not speak very often but have impactful contributions which can be an indicator of like people who David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: uh who should be talking more in meetings right David Egts: Mhm. Gunnar Hellekson: um and so kind of as a as a as a frequent facilitator of meetings um having analyses like this is like is super helpful. 00:30:26 Gunnar Hellekson: I love the cost one. Um there's like participation rates and then there's also like I was saying in the beginning like there's all kinds of rubrics for David Egts: Amen. Gunnar Hellekson: um judging meeting health like do decisions actually get made or do they get deferred? um you know, is one person making all the choices or is it coming or is it a consensus meeting, you know, things like that. And having all that feedback, having feedback in a kind of a structured way um in addition to the transcripts and the, you know, the actual summaries is uh uh can be super helpful for the person running the meeting, David Egts: Right. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: right? David Egts: It like you know imagine like I know people have made a lot of money like being like a meeting coach of like how to run effective meetings and everything. It's like that's how many books have been written about that that you could use to turn into a uh a gem or or you know a bot Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: that would be like okay here are the best practices and look for these best practices and coach me on how to improve. 00:31:23 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's David Egts: But a lot of times I think the people that need the most coaching are the ones that don't want it Gunnar Hellekson: cool. David Egts: or or they think they're great or they don't they can't handle the truth of of that they're terrible at running meetings. So I don't know. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's no cure for that, David Egts: No, Gunnar Hellekson: unfortunately. David Egts: no, no, no. Yeah, but that's all I got. Gunnar Hellekson: All right. Not bad. So, are you are you inspired now? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Are you going to are you going to perform careful introspections of all of your David Egts: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and I'm I'm going to do that. Gunnar Hellekson: meetings? David Egts: I'm also going to uh probably take a poetry class uh to help uh with with my influence and everything and maybe sign up for an MGM rewards Gunnar Hellekson: Oh, yeah. No, I don't recommend David Egts: account. Gunnar Hellekson: that. That's great. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: So, Gunnar, to get some anti-aging cream, uh you you want to turn yourself into an MCP server. uh the whole gamut. What do you what do you need to uh uh where do you need to point your web Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, you need to take your web browser, David Egts: browser? Gunnar Hellekson: point it at uh point it at the MCP server and have your human your AIdirected human visit uh dgshow.org with dz and Dave gz and gunnershow.org. David Egts: Nice. Yeah, he could have they could hire Dan Walsh to bookmarks uh djshow.org for you. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. It's great. David Egts: All right, Gunner. Gunnar Hellekson: All right. David Egts: Hey, thanks and thanks everybody for Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, David Egts: listening. Transcription ended after 00:33:25 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.