Jack Arend Hello, and welcome to another edition of the AWSP podcast. A matter of principles. I’m Jack Arend, the deputy director here at AWSP. And today I am so excited to meet with and talk with an elementary principal from the Tumwater School District. Doctor Tamara York is here as the principal of Littlerock Elementary, and she is going to be joining us for this series, which is all about how leaders are finding success and connecting it to the leadership framework. This is going to be such a fun series, and all the directors are are finding these amazing leaders throughout our state, and they’re all willing to just share what’s happening in their neck of the woods. So Doctor Tamara York, welcome. Dr. Tamara York Thank you. Thank you for letting me join you. You can call me Tamara. Dr. Tamara York It's wonderful to be on this podcast. Jack Arend Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. As many of you that are listening, know, my time as a school leader was spent in the Tumwater district also, so I have I know exactly where Tamara School is. I’ve met Tamara before. She’s a good friend. She’s an incredible colleague. And I’m excited for this session. Tamara, what if you start? What if we just start this out by. By first kind of telling us a little bit about your school and the community that you serve. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Great place to start. So, I’m, like you said, at little Rock elementary. Little Rock elementary is in the Tumwater School district. We are on the south end of the school district in a very small rural community, which is wonderful. It has its, you know, ups and downs and things that we can celebrate. But always, you know, some challenges. So our school we have about 350 students kindergarten through fifth grade. And we just serve a wonderful population of families. This is a kind of a landmark actually the school. The school itself has been in this location for decades. It was one of the first schools in Thurston County. And so we have a long, rich heritage. There’s a lot of generational families at our school. We also have teachers that stay. So it’s a really neat, staff to work with, wonderful students and, of course, community. Jack Arend Thank you. A great way to kind of paint the historical importance of little Rock. Yes. One of the first schools in this county. And it’s just such a great little place that used to be its own district. And that’s such a unique thing and a really cool community. But so thank you for sharing that. I know we’re going to get more into how how much the community plays a part into the success that you are creating at little Rock. But before we do that, maybe we kind of focus it on you. What first drew you into education? And I don’t know, when did you know the leadership might be a part of that journey? Dr. Tamara York Well, very again, great question. I think, the path with most resistance, I guess you could say, my dad was a principal and also a deputy superintendent of a school district. My mother was also a special education teacher. So growing up, I was like, nope, not my path. I will forge my own, you know, destiny. Not an education. Surprise. Now I’m a school principal. So how I got here? Right after I graduated university, my husband and I got married, and we ended up in far western China on the Tibetan Plateau. And, we the, the way that we kind of landed there was we had met a local person in the city that we landed in that was starting an English training center, the first one in the province, that was looking for American English teachers. So I was like, I guess if it gets me a visa and I get to live abroad, I will do this thing. And so, I mean, within the first month, I was like, well, I should have been a teacher. I just loved it. I fell in love with it. And I don’t know if part of it was just getting to do it. I love, just global work. I love, traveling, I love culture. So maybe all of that helped, you know, reinforce what I was doing, but I quickly just kind of dove into that work and education in China, but amongst minority groups. So Tibetan. Tibetan minorities, Hui, Uyghur, Inner Mongolian, so very rich with different cultures within the city that I was living in. And so I noticed right away something that was somewhat missing from this very new concept of an English training center was, English curriculum for the foreign teachers, meaning the Americans that were coming over to teach. And so there were just three American English teachers and five Chinese English teachers. And so I just dove into, like, starting with, like, curriculum development. And then we really expanded quickly. I mean, we went from one English training center. Within two years, we had three branches. I was helping with, you know, trying to get teachers, from, you know, the UK, Australia, America. Just reaching out. Networking to the point where I ended up becoming more of the, liaison and the dean of the school. And so over a decade. Again, it just kept multiplying until there were six branches in the city and serving over, I mean, thousands of students because they have really high number of students in the class. But it was just neat. And so for me, that leadership path was very natural. Like, it was kind of just from one step to the next step until I was I helped, start and I was principal of a bilingual international kindergarten in that city. And so that was just a unique thing in itself. And, leading that, I mean, probably one of the most difficult things yet that I’ve done doing it in a different language and just the cultural pieces. But a lot of also my passion working with families developed over there too. So then in 2016, at the very end of that year, we decided to come back to the States. And I was like, man, I want to continue this teaching path and education. And I knew I needed to, you know, start fresh in America, which meant I wanted that teacher experience. And so I became a fourth grade teacher and loved it, served with amazing staff and, was mentored by a wonderful principal. And after a couple years, I was like, all right, I’m going to get my principal certification. And then just kept journeying on and and got my doctorate as well. And so I’ve been in administration now the last four years. Jack Arend What a cool journey. I mean, oh my gosh. Like not many people say, oh, I started this, you know, regional center in China. That’s amazing. And I really I can really relate to what you said, that you did not plan to go into education and you did not plan to do this leadership thing. That was my track as well. My father was a high school music teacher, and I went to college loving music, but I knew I would never be a high school music teacher. And then I leave four years later, and I’m a high school music teacher, and, And I loved it. And and, you know, I think what that says to me is sometimes education calls us. Right. And sometimes. And then I hear from your story that you just kind of naturally found your way into helping with the leadership portion of these regional centers throughout China. And, and then you kind of get bitten by the leadership bug. Yeah. And because every teacher is a leader, right? Every leader is a teacher. And I just really, really appreciate you sharing that story. Thank you for that. Yeah. And at some point, I want to I made a note. We need to have a whole nother podcast session on just international teaching and leading that, because we also share a little piece of that as well. That’s fun. So I’m going to jump. So you’re a little Rock elementary school? Dr. Tamara York Yes. Jack Arend And, what do you enjoy most about leading an elementary school? What do you what do you like the most? Dr. Tamara York Yes. Oh, there are so many things I like. I think the obvious answer, though, that comes to the forefront of my mind, is working with students. Really? When I landed at little Rock elementary, this is my second year here, and I felt like I could be rooted and like, just knowing that, like, wow. Like, we have the influence and I have the influences. Like a leader to really get to know each one of these students by name and by who they are and what they love. And, it’s a small enough school, 350 kids where I can. I’m doing that and being intentional with it. So, I mean, just seeing kids show growth is incredible and celebrating what kids are doing. And then also like with the challenges or, you know, in every education, you know, setting, there’s always things that pop up that aren’t easy. But like at that elementary level, it’s that foundational time where we truly get to shape kids futures. I mean, we get to let them have mistakes. We get to do restorative. We we get to have these wonderful opportunities where we can empower students, find advocacy, and build resilience. And so that’s what I love about being at the elementary level and working with students. Of course, that’s like my first real love of of being in this role. And then the second I just I love working with my staff and helping them hone in on their instructional, you know, piece, but also like, helping them, you know, find their joy and their fun in the job. Working as a team, I work with a phenomenal staff. I have a staff member who’s been here for 43 years, you know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so and just to work with such a diverse generational staff, has been neat for me. That’s something that I didn’t experience in my previous building. And so and then, of course, I love working with families, too. Jack Arend Yeah. Oh, I love the, lots of that. But the people listening don’t get to see your face like I do. And you just lit up when you talked about both kids and staff, and I lit up when I heard 43 years of establishment which you’re building. And that just says so much about the history and the family and the connection. And little Rock has this great history like you shared at the beginning of this session. And what a cool thing. What an amazing thing that you get to be a part of. Wow. Really really cool. Well, let me let me ask you this one. I know that principals are are busy and they’re they’re spinning a lot of plates right now, and I there used to be these seasons of more busy than other seasons. And now I just think it’s just all busy and it’s all good work. It’s all really good work. It’s just a lot of work. It’s a lot of work on leaders plates, teachers plates, the whole thing. But when you think about what’s happening in little Rock right now, where do you feel like you you, Tamara and your team have really made meaningful progress? Dr. Tamara York Well, you know, I think that, like I said, this is like I’m in my second year here. And, I think in order to answer that question, I need to also give some context. So. Sure. The previous principal had been here ten years and was just wonderful, beloved by the community. And he retired. And so that’s that’s hard for any principal coming in because you’re that next principal, you know, and, he did a wonderful job. And so there were a lot of good things already happening here. And so as we know, principals, you never want to go in and make big waves that first year. And something that I wanted to do is what can I what can I like, continue to work and deepen the work or, you know, the 2.0 version of the work that I can continue. And so some of those areas was just pushing in to what already existed, and so building deeper into that culture and refining some of those processes. And so one of the things that we’ve been able to do here is a program called watchdogs. And so that is a program that I had somewhat started at a different school. And I just felt like, man, this is like a great opportunity for this community to experience this. And so it’s, the we launched the program last year and it’s really to get dads, father figures, uncles, grandparents, even community members, that could come in and give one day of the whole school year to help volunteer in our school. And so, it’s really taken off, wonderful. So we’ve had, for example, this year, we had 23 dads sign up, and we’ve had over 43 days of a watchdog volunteer. And so what they get to do is I have a schedule for them and, you know, they just follow the schedule. They just help give some effort, like extra supervision at recess, extra lunch supervision, sit with kids, hallway monitors and then work one on one or small group with the kid or two kiddos that need that little extra, you know, support or encouragement. And so that’s something that has gone really well. And again, it’s bridging that community piece and a need, you know, for extra support. Because every school needs more resources. And so it’s just this great blend of, a neat way to get family engagement, but then also support for kids. So that’s one program that we’ve been doing really well and I love it. Jack Arend What are the what are the dads? The grandpas, the uncles, the cousins, the friends? Whatever. What kind of feedback are they giving you and your teachers? Dr. Tamara York Yeah, actually, really good feedback. And so a lot of them, are they come back, you know, they have come back because they love it so much. We have one dad who comes in diligently every other Friday. And so he’s really also able to connect and like, help out in a, in a really meaningful way. And they see that need and like the positive it’s having for students but also the support it’s lending towards teachers. And then at the end of the day, they’re like, wow, you know, this is hard work, you know? And so it’s that acknowledgment that, you know, being an educator is is not easy. And so it’s been a really good response. I have a parent who’s interested in connecting with the watchdogs and even thinking about doing like a skills evening and, you know, just getting dads into to offer skills. And so, you know, who knows where it’s going to go. But it’s a great it’s a great start. Jack Arend Thank you for sharing that success. I think it’s really important when leaders are able to do what you have done by bringing community in, to really see the inner workings of the school, and it’s different to be there during the day when every staff member and kid is there. It’s different than an evening activity where not everyone might be there. And just to have that realization that, wow, great things are happening here and dang, this is tough. Like, this is very complex. Teachers are amazing systems that make a school look like it’s running smooth, are really intricate and great. When community can see that, it sure makes a lot of difference when the principal or teachers ask for things. Yes. Certainly no. Oh gosh, that is a need. I saw that that my other day when I was being a watchdog or whatever that is. I love that. I said at the top of the session that this series that we’re doing, this podcast series we get to do at AWSP around leaders like yourself, that are finding success watchdogs is one of them. And how we connect that to the AWSP leadership framework. You know, we’re so fortunate in our state that we have a leadership framework that was written by practicing school leaders for school leaders. And so it becomes very relevant because I think the framework really gets the job that you are being asked to do every day. And and even even more so have your supervisor to take a look at what you’re doing. And we use the framework for that. And you just gave a masterclass on criterion seven, engaging the families and the community. Right. Amazing. Really really fantastic. And I was flipping through that criterion while you were talking. And, you know, component 7.1 says partners with families to promote student learning. Yeah. Yeah. The watchdogs. You’re promoting student learning. Come be a part of this and you will see. Yeah. How much learning is happening in our school? Yeah. So that was criterion seven. And I know that you shared that and I jumped right there. But I’m curious when you think about the eight criteria, which one do you feel like you have had the most success. Dr. Tamara York Well, I really for me it is something I wanted to focus on besides, you know, family engagement, that one just comes naturally. That’s the work that I like to just naturally do. But something that I wanted to focus on the first few years of my leadership here was building school culture. And I did speak to that a little bit about coming in with such a good principal who retired. And so thinking about culture when you have a really good culture at your at the building that you’re coming into. It’s how do you maintain that and how do you grow that. And as I mentioned, grow it deeper, you know, and then offshoots of things that can blossom and where are you going to refine it back. And so that’s an area that I definitely wanted to focus on. Was that culture piece of and then breaking it into culture with staff culture amongst students, looking at it through the tiered systems of support. And then how are how am I building culture around instruction and learning and building norms? And so, we are the reading interventionist who is here for many, many years, also retired. And so we have a new reading interventionist. And so, again, I had shared that we have like a lot of veteran teachers, but at the same time we also have this A turnover of some newer teachers in the building. And so there is that shift that’s taking place. And so making sure that I’m maintaining that culture of, of growing together in it. Jack Arend Yeah. Culture, who there is there is a reason why that is the first criterion of the framework. We say at AWSP often you can have a culture by design or culture by default. Yeah. And you are. Sounds like you’re very intentional with the culture and assimilating the new people that come to your staff into the culture, and also not being afraid as a leader to say this is an area of our culture that we’re going to explore or we’re going to dive deeper into. I think that is fantastic. Yeah. A really great leader that I have absolutely loved getting to know is Lacey Griffiths. She’s an assistant principal at a high school in the Longview School District. And she gave me a phrase that I use often, and that is culture is what the leader allows. Dr. Tamara York Oh, yeah. Jack Arend And so I’m curious, Tamara, when you hear that, what do you think? What what what do you allow to have happen at your building? Dr. Tamara York Well, I think it my first thought was like, well, what’s the expectation? And how were you, talking about and promoting expectation in your building? And, that is something that I am gifted in walking into, is that there is a very high expectation, because we do believe that kids can can fall with that. Right? Like and so it’s what you’re allowing, right. And so, I just had a substitute teacher in fifth grade today, and we have a pretty honed in, like, end of the day dismissal. And so she was just like, wow, I have never seen a hallway this quiet before. And it’s, you know, I’m just giving an example of a of a little expectation. Right. Well we got there because that’s the expectation. Right. And and then how do you, redirect if something’s off and, or you’re starting to allow like that piece to go a little further. And so to me when I think of that, that phrase is I just think of that expectation. What expectation do we have and how are we communicating it? Jack Arend Oh, that was good. Tell me about the culture of how your staff works together. So your expectations or whatever that. Yeah I’m curious about that. A little bit of a smaller school, not tiny. I mean, it’s but it’s not a mega school. But it is a little bit smaller. So how do you the work is still the work. And sometimes, you know, smaller numbers in schools doesn’t mean there’s less work. Dr. Tamara York Right. And it’s kind of more like divide and conquer. And so, and I think that is again, like coming in and really seeing that this is a a team that like really relies on each other. It’s a very, very like family. Like it’s where a staff is somewhat like a family, you know. And so we have our normal staff meetings, but then we do like a 15 minute meet up on Fridays where, you know, we can share out positives or come around a challenge. And we it’s, it’s a we like to be open and transparent with what’s going on too, as far as with students and families and then just the teaming around different ideas. So one big lift this year was I mentioned that we have a new reading interventionist and she’s fantastic. And the work that had been going on was also amazing. But we wanted to elevate and also kind of like shift our reading intervention to a newer science based, you know, reading intervention. It’s you fly. Some of you listening may know what that is. It’s wonderful. And, but to bring that to staff who’ve been using something for like a decade is a big lift. And so it took, you know, some pre talking about it last spring to the maybe to then how do we you know implement this. And in order for that something like that to work you’ve got to have people on board. And my and also with a brand new reading interventionist. And so it took the team, the pair of educators as well getting trained. And we do a walk to read model. So it’s not just impacting a pullout reading group with lap. It’s the whole entire grade level that’s that’s needing to be on board with this. And so again, we’re able to kind of do those things because there’s that collaboration. And of course I’m always looking for teacher leaders and you know delegating and like, you know, giving people the nudge when I feel like they can, you know, really, step into a leadership space. And so I’m looking for all of those things. Jack Arend Growing leaders and all those things that you do. I want to kind of go back to this or continue talking about the leadership skills and your decision on leadership moves. When you and I brought some things down, so you took on the big lift of implementing a new curriculum. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Jack Arend You took on that big lift by, putting a new interventionist into that role. Yeah. And you, I’m guessing maybe I’m. Maybe I’m wrong, but, you know, when you lose a teacher, when they will not lose, when they decide to retire, there’s a lot of, safety from the other teachers that that maybe walks out the door because they’ve just been used to that. So now you I guess I’m wondering, as you implemented a new curriculum, introduced a new interventionist classified staff has to get used to that whole. You said it’s a it’s a all hands on deck for this. And you had to really lean into your culture. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Jack Arend Yeah. And and maybe the trust that you’d built with your staff. But I’m curious what what were some leadership moves you chose to do? Because the way you talk about it right now, it’s it’s going well. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. I and we’re seeing, you know, results too. And it’s, it hasn’t been perfect. Right. You know, there’s been like growing pains. But at the same time, I think a large part of it is just how the rollout happened of also curriculum. So with our core curriculum, we’re actually piloting a core curriculum that just got adopted. So we’ve had that in the works. And so when I came in for my first year, you know, last year I did a lot of digging with like, now where are we using this? And I had talked to the, previous reading interventionist and just, you know, what’s your take? And then looking at like, talking with teachers about, you know, how do you feel like it’s working. Not that the other one wasn’t working, but also like, how can you know, just also allowing teachers to kind of give them the space to think through that and what that might look like. And because I think a lot of it is the processing and, you know, the ownership and being willing to try something new and eye the shift with a new principal and then a new reading interventionist and now a new reading intervention. And so, you know, you do. It’s a delicate dance. And so it’s finding the people that have that buy in and my, my kindergarten team and just finding, you know, my first grade team and just second grade team, because really that’s the core of this intervention. And then again third, fourth and fifth. We’re working with something different, but really being transparent, but also coming alongside and supporting. And so providing the training and our, you know, my lab teacher was like, I will model lessons for you. You know, if you’re if you need help. I mean, she prepares the lessons she made, you know, quality like binders, Google docs like everything is very accessible. And so it as far as the planning, I think teachers, they felt that their time was valued, that they were valued and that we wanted to see this roll out. Well. Jack Arend Yeah, I picked up on something that I think, I just want to go back to because it’s a huge leadership skill for anyone that’s listening. That is maybe in their first or second year. You said, Tamara, you just asked a ton of questions that first year. Tell me about this. Tell me why we do this. What do you like about it? What do you not like about it? And the leadership move is one. You’re getting lots of voices. And also I think that next, the level of that leadership move is your you’re sharing with your staff that I want to know. So we can all make a great decision to move forward. Yeah. And you said you’re getting some results, which tells me, you know, here we are. We turn the calendar to April, right. Just a day or two. And, and so you must have some good data around that. And then I’m curious what you’re, how your staff and what’s, what’s your relationship with using data. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Again, like, it’s, my staff, they got me a sweatshirt for Christmas, and it was like a Christmas, like, I love Google Doc sweatshirt because I, I’m always like, I’ll send a Google doc. You know, I love data. And, and luckily my reading Interventionist. Her name is Laura Ashley. She’s amazing. She loves data, too. And so it’s. I love that every school does data differently. Right? Like, I have been in four different schools in this district, and everyone does it just a little bit differently. But something that I noticed is that they they look at the data and we team around data and, watching, teachers use like from kindergarten first and second grade. I’ll speak to those three grade levels, really doing progress monitoring and looking at, okay, kids that have passed are are cleared. Let’s really do we need to do double dips with this tiered, you know, tier two kids, and really trying to target and, and be intentional with how we’re using our data. And, and I would say that the staff does a pretty good job at looking and being intentional with their data. And so again, it’s not like, and me having to tell them you need to look at your data. I think it’s always in front of them. They’re always thinking about it. Jack Arend Yeah, yeah. So good, so good. I know that, whether you’re a data nerd or not, you kind of need to be in this role. Yes. Yeah. You just need to, You need to know exactly what’s going on. And qualitative, quantitative, you name it. We just it’s our job to find out and then to help our staffs interpret the data to know which what’s in next step. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Yeah. Jack Arend I’m curious as you are getting close to wrapping up year two. Yeah. The lead principal position. What are some challenges you’ve met and what did you do about it or what are you doing about it? Dr. Tamara York You know, I think it’s how we approach challenges. I think there’s always going to be challenges in this role. Because as humans, we all have our own opinions and sometimes we disagree. And we need to, you know, figure out like be problem solvers. And so I think sometimes, a challenge of, when there’s a frustration with the curriculum or with a schedule and instead of just complaining around it coming to say, then we have this problem, how are we coming to solve it? And so, being really, you know, proactive in the approach of how we even, respond to a challenge. And so I feel like this is a little bit vague, but I can’t think of something that specifically is a challenge, I mean, a challenge of we never have enough resources or I wish we had more Paras or another teacher, right? Things that like are out of my control. And so then what can I do within my control to help problem solve within this challenge? Jack Arend Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting for me to even ask that question, because I think every day teachers and leaders are just hit with things to solve. And those could be quick things. And then there’s the deeper one of like, wow, why, why, why does this feel like a barrier? Why do we always seem to find ourselves here at the same spot and we can’t seem to move forward or whatever that might be? So thank you for that answer. I think leaders, when they allow themselves time to reflect, really can start to dig deeper into, oh, I kind of want to I want to lead us in this direction and we keep getting stalled or the other direction. And I really, really like what you said. How are we going to solve it? Yeah. And and you, you you leaned into the word we how are we going to solve it? And yeah, there’s times when you have to flex your leadership muscle and you need to make a tough decision. Yeah. But gosh, that we is pretty powerful. Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Jack Arend Pretty powerful. Dr. Tamara York I think like reflecting on that, something we noticed was just how do we get ahead of, you know, behavior or just the things that, you know, buildings experience and, just that’s one of the my key action plans this year was looking at behavior referrals or how do we, get ahead of it instead of reactive. And so we thought of starting a mentorship program. This year. And so the staff in August, we, I, you know, put together a Google doc and, teachers just, you know, thinking of tiered systems, like, think about your kids that kind of just need that extra support. Now they’re going to the next grade. And instead of reinventing the wheel and trying to figure out who needs a little bit of extra, you know, support, we put together a list of kids who could really use just another touch point, and to be seen. Right. Or just that encouragement. And then any staff member could sign up to be a mentor to that student. And so we created a like a mentorship program. It’s not this huge like, you know, out there, I’m talking about every day kind of a thing, but more of just like, hey, this is like on us. We agreed as a staff to like kind of pick two kids just to check in on, give an extra high five. They don’t even know it. Right. It’s not like they’re going up being like, I’m your new mentor. It’s more of just like providing another source of encouragement, but again, with that intentionality behind it. And so again, that’s kind of when you talk about what challenges do you see? That’s where that reflective piece comes in. So as I’m reflecting on this mentorship program, how’s that working? How can I push into it? Is it effective? Do I keep doing it? So and we’ve seen a very positive outcome with that as well. Jack Arend Oh how cool. So kids don’t even really know know. They just know that yet another adult at little Rock is checking in with me. Or that I have a relationship with. Yeah. Really really powerful. And I and I’m thinking I’m sitting here thinking gosh that touches on your culture. You had to use some type of data to figure out which kids might need an extra, you know, high five or whatever that is. It’s engaging. You know, managing your resources. Hey Steph, we don’t have a whole bunch of stuff, but what could we do? Yeah. How can we manage this resource? Really, really impressive. What? What does. Well, here comes another zinger. Either. Whatever. Any of the things you’ve talked about today? The watchdogs, creating culture, using data, engaging families, whatever it is. Pick one of those and share with me. What does success look like to you in that criterion? Oh. Dr. Tamara York Ooh. That’s that’s I’m going to have to reflect on that question. Jack Arend As you’re thinking. I’ll give you a little time because I for the listener, I’m tossing all these questions and she’s just keeps hitting home runs. It was, I think, one of the things that is really important for leaders, you know, we talk about being really clear. Yeah. And and depending on a student or a parent or a teacher or whoever, you know, being really clear as Brené Brown, our friend would say is kind. Right. Also is that whole idea of be really clear with what Dunn looks like. So we’re not going to say, oh, are you finished or not? We know what Dunn looks like, and recently I’ve been asking leaders to have that same kind of clarity. And what does success look like? Dr. Tamara York Yeah. Well, success. I think success is. And I don’t know if I’m not. I might not directly answer your question, but. Jack Arend Okay. Dr. Tamara York I don’t think an education you’re ever done. I think there’s always that striving for more like, not more success. Right. But like to pick one of those, you know, I think if the watchdog’s program continues to be sustainable and we get more, you know, guys signed up and it keeps working, that’s successful. Right? Like, it’s it’s not tapering. It’s not petering out. It’s continuing. That would be successful. You know, within the new reading intervention program, like the success would be that we’re closing the academic gap. The read, you know, the reading gap. That would be success. If we could close it, that’d be awesome. I don’t think that’s going to happen, you know? But how can we refine that process? And by looking at data. And so success would be, again closing the gap. And then I think success with culture is if you are having engaged students and, you know, I, I just I think that there’s always going to be, somebody who it’s not perfect, right. It’s never going to be, everyone 100% all on board. You’re always going to have some pushback somewhere and to expect that. And that’s not bad. In fact, I think it’s like, listen to that. You know, don’t give in to it. But it’s important to listen to see. Are there? Am or do I have some blind spots in this. And and then you can kind of fact check and see how it’s going. But I think success within those things is to the degree of where it’s at. And is it maintaining or is it thriving and then continuing into that success? Jack Arend Yeah. Good. Good answer. Good answer. Tamara, I as as we kind of start to wrap this up today, again, thank you for coming out. Time to share your successes and ideas and just sharing the whole cool culture of little Rock elementary. I want to just remind a listener that that everything that you heard today, we’re connecting to this framework that you all are evaluated on, and you heard a really successful leader talk about their attention to culture. You you heard Tamara talk about the importance of engaging families and communities. How do we use some data to know which kids can we help lift up so they know that each and every adult in this building knows me and sees me and cares for me, which is what any school at any level wants. It’s what every parent wants for their kid. It’s what every teacher wants for their classroom. So really fascinating. And one of the things that I think is great for the leaders that have great connections and relations with their supervisors is to have these conversations with that framework book open and just start looking at the rubric and go, and you’re doing it. Tamara York, you’re doing it and you are experiencing success. You just shared with me all these incredible things. And leadership is so intricate. That is Tamara is talking about watchdogs and that’s engaging families and communities of criterion seven. It’s also culture. It’s also managing resources. It’s all these things. And so it’s no wonder we we drive home at the end of the day knowing we did a great job because one we’re dog tired, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. The work is so all it’s so connected. It’s so connected. And I just really, really appreciative of how you explain that and just the great things happening, happening in little Rock elementary. I know this is okay. I asked Tamara before, but man, if you are listening and you want to know more about watchdogs or gosh darn it, I need to know more about that curriculum that Tamara Yorke’s used in that little Rock elementary. Look up the Tumwater School District. Look up little Rock elementary. Connect with Tamara via email. I’m telling you, she will connect with you. She is a people person, as you probably could tell through this whole podcast. And she, even though she didn’t want to go into education in college. Look at her. Look at her. Here I am, crushing the school leadership. I have one final closing question. Dr. Tamara York Yes. Jack Arend If you could offer a piece of leadership advice to other principals and assistant principals listening today, what would it be? Dr. Tamara York I, you know, I think it would be Perfecting the pores. I think a lot of times in a leadership position, it’s you want to respond, right? Whether it’s to a student or that email that you got or, you know, a teacher needs support, but there’s just something about taking a moment, even if it’s just a moment, or if you have a minute to really just pause before you respond to that. Like, because I think sometimes we can be reactive. And so when we give ourselves the space to just pause and say, how am I going to handle this? It’s really helpful because it gives you that moment to like, listen to body language, listen to the tone of the email, listen to the need of the student. And so for me, it’s to perfect the pause, to be proactive in the pause. Jack Arend Oh, if you’re listening, and you did not write that down, you need to perfect the pause. I don’t know, I think that’s going to be on a little rock t shirt here soon. Perfect. Dr. Tamara York And we are the little Rock Tigers. Jack Arend PA WS0! Oh, what a treat. Dr. Tamara York What a. Jack Arend Treat. What a treat to talk to you today. I’m so glad that other people that are listening get a chance to meet you through this podcast. And, and, And thank you. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for carving time out for today. And just thank you for what you’re doing for the staff, students and the entire little Rock community. We appreciate you. Thank you. Dr. Tamara York Thank you. Jack Arend Yeah. Go, Tigers! Go, Tigers! All right, folks, that is just another episode of the AWSP Principle Matters podcast. This series is all focused on leader success and tying it to the framework. Thank you. You matter. Your leadership matters. Thank you.