Pam Glennon (00:00)
in reality, as much as we try to plan, things just happen in the moment. You don't know, especially in relationship shows, you don't know who's gonna connect. You don't know who's gonna be dating who. A lot of competition reality, you can prepare and prepare, but you don't know necessarily what's gonna happen, which makes it so fun.

Madelyn (00:24)
Hi, I'm Madelyn Cunningham and this is The Unscripted Files where I bring you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today, I have an Emmy award-winning producer on the podcast. We met a couple of years ago, became good friends.

She's an incredible producer who has a lot of roots in factual, doc, lifestyle, sports, but also talks a lot about her first foray into a big format show, what that transition was like. we also get into mentorship, how to get opportunities when she wanted to jump into something different, how did she get that? She is a lecturer teaching unscripted. We talk about...

what she teaches, what she looks for in students,

and how she remains a student herself every day. so here's my chat with producer Pam Glennon.

Madelyn (01:15)
Pam, welcome to The Unscripted Files. How are you?

Pam Glennon (01:18)
Hi! Thanks for having me on! Good to see you. Excited to be here.

Madelyn (01:21)
It's so great to see

you. It's been a little bit. We met at Reelscreen. Was it New Orleans or was it Austin that we met? It was New Orleans, okay. Yes, we did.

Pam Glennon (01:30)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And it was

a couple years ago.

Madelyn (01:33)
cause right around that time is when my mom, your dad came out on HBO Max, right? That was a show that you got to be a part of, really fun format by the way.

Pam Glennon (01:42)
Yes, yes, thank you. That show, it was the most wild, fun, exhausting experience. think one of all the projects I've worked on, it was really, really fun and just a really creative, unique idea. So definitely a lot of work, but it was fun to produce for sure.

Madelyn (02:01)
It's such a fun format. I was telling you earlier, I feel like it paved the way for a lot of these new formats we're seeing where older generations are finding love and dating, but it was the first big relationship dating format show you were a part of because traditionally you were sort of in commercial and sports and travel. So talk to me about.

how that transition was for you and what were the biggest lessons that you learned.

Pam Glennon (02:26)
Yes, yes. So this was a unique and massive show and I do think it was a little bit of a first of its kind. We only did one season but then it actually was modified a little bit and then ITV went on to produce it in the UK. So they did a season one and two, think 2023 and 24. So the origins of the show is actually pretty amazing. So

It was Hailey Daniels and Greg Daniels, father and daughter duo that came up with this concept and got the partners on board and really were the creators of the show. And then for those of you who don't know, Greg Daniels is one of the most prominent, funniest, comedic sitcom.

Madelyn (03:00)
That's so fun.

Pam Glennon (03:16)
writers and creators out there. He did Parks and Rec, he did the US Office version. this was an idea that I believe his daughter came up with him. So it was a fun experience for them to be able to work on the show together. yeah, it's really interesting. And then I got on the show, going back to your original question.

because I actually had just done the mentorship program through the Producers Guild of America, I think the year before. And I did it with Sam Dean, who was one of the original showrunners on Love is Blind. She had done a lot with HBO Max as a showrunner in the dating relationship reality world. was one of the showrunner for FBoy Island. She did 12 dates of.

Madelyn (03:45)
Mmm.

Pam Glennon (04:03)
Christmas so that was really her bread and butter and she was already working with them so they paired her up with the Daniels I don't know the exact order you'd have to how it all came about you'd have to ask them You know ITV was the product America was the production company in essence so there was a lot of people involved and then she had a few collaborators that she had worked on

successfully, Gionni and Vanessa who were co-EPS. But I was really, because we had this great relationship and I was really interested in doing kind of bigger budget TV and unscripted because where I came from, I did a lot of documentary television, factual, magazine style, travel shows where some of them I created and show ran, some of them I was...

producer, field producer. So I had a lot of different roles, but I hadn't done anything that was this massive reality, big budget reality, I'll call it. So this was a new experience, but I was brought on, I think I was one of the first producers to be brought on, which was really amazing for me because I kind of came, I worked a little bit with Nitro Circus. And if you're not familiar with them, they do, yeah, so they,

Madelyn (05:17)
I am familiar. I grew up with

two brothers. I am so familiar. I haven't heard that name in a

Pam Glennon (05:25)
Yes, yes. So we had done a lot of prank-style type of things in our programming with them. So I had a little bit of background in this comedic prank kind of reality-style television. So I was brought in really to help with the creative. So on the show itself, if you haven't seen it, it is about, you know, these college-age kind of younger adults setting up

their parents, their single parents to find love and date and they're in their kind of late 40s to 50s age range. And basically the college age kids go into one house, which is, you know, there's remote cameras and everything's rigged up and they go in there and then it's revealed to them that they actually have access to view.

certain scenes from the parents house who's in a house actually a half mile down the road. So there's a lot that went behind this backstory and the young adults who are watching their parents, they actually have a hand in what happens. So it's a little bit of this like interactive component that you see during the show. So there, I wouldn't say prank because it's, we call them medals.

Madelyn (06:29)
Mmm.

Mm.

Pam Glennon (06:41)
Not

like medal, like Olympic gold medal, but like meddling in something. when I say they, we had all these medals basically lined up and ready to execute. And then through different challenges, the kids, I'll just call them kids, the kids' house basically would be able to use a medal or set up their parents on a date and have some sort of control.

on what happened in the parents' house. So the parents' house, you know, had no idea. They knew that they were in this reality show to find love. They didn't know their kids were watching. And you can see there's a lot of comedy that can come from this. So, yeah, it was really big show.

Madelyn (07:18)
⁓ It's

a really brilliant format and it's like letting the kids essentially play reality TV producer. It's giving a little perfect match, but that generational play I think is so interesting. Watching your parents find love is like both can be very endearing and also very icky. I think just, I don't know, doubling down on all those emotions and knowing that it came from a father daughter team.

Pam Glennon (07:27)
Mm-hmm

Madelyn (07:47)
absolutely makes it a million times better. I love that. So you mentioned, you know, challenge producing and there's so many different roles on these sets, very different from the doc role or factual. There's a lot of different roles. A producer's not just a producer. Like everyone has something specific. I'd love to break down different producer roles with you because I've never actually done that on this show. I think it'd be helpful for people who were

getting into the industry, do you wanna be out in the field? Do you wanna be behind the desk? Do you just wanna handle creative? Like I think breaking down sort of different producer roles would be really beneficial, because we've never done it before and I think you're the perfect person. So let's break it down, shall we?

Pam Glennon (08:30)
Yeah, let's do it.

and yeah, so every, it's so wild because in Unscripted, even within reality, the way that the show is structured and the roles of the producer can change from dating reality to, you know, this doc reality to a travel show. So even within Unscripted and across genres, the roles of the producer can change a lot. So

I'll talk a little bit about My Mom, Your Dad since we're already talking about it and my role on that a little bit more and how it kind of broke down. So, and this is kind of the extreme end because you have to think when I talked about the two houses, you have to almost think that this was two reality shows being filmed at the same time. So we had a massive, massive crew and a lot of different producers doing a lot of different things. So I would say obviously, you know, starting at the top,

Madelyn (09:13)
Yeah, totally.

Pam Glennon (09:26)
You you're going to have your creators, your executive producers, your network execs, your studio execs, right? And then you're going to kind of have your showrunner. you know, that person that is the executive producer that's running the story across the season and I would say the day to day in reality creative decisions. That's not necessarily the same in scripted, but we're talking on scripted here, so I won't get into that.

we basically had the show runner who was in charge of everything as a whole. They're at 30,000 feet. They're in charge of making sure the show achieves the creative outcome that we want. They're the face of the show. They're making all the creative decisions. They're really kind of this mastermind. The director, and we had a control room.

because we have remote cameras, we're switching between cameras, we had two houses, right? And not to say that this was shot live by any means, but we did have this control room and the director was in charge of more the cameras. And that's similar to narrative, right? Where you have, know, in film standalone, you don't have these huge story engines and driving arcs across hours and hours that you're producing, right? So the director's more of that.

Madelyn (10:29)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Pam Glennon (10:44)
creative lead, the scripts are in and that's that. You're not coming up with multiple scripts like you would in narrative TV. And the same thing. So we had that director role that was in charge of the visuals, in charge of basically the DP and their vision and the cameras and placements and basically the control room, right? From the technical and visual standpoint and how does the visual support what we're trying to do creatively. We had the showrunner and then beneath the showrunner

We had two EPs and for this one, I don't know if necessarily every show has two EPs, but we had two co-EPs because this was a massive project and one of our EPs, Vanessa, she is amazing in the field. She knows how to get any type of reaction from the talent and she was really in charge of what was happening on the ground from the cast. And then we had another EP, Gaiani, that was

She was a little bit more story-based with the writing and she was in touch with the network and all the major stakeholders, the studio execs, know, the Daniels, and kind of came at it from that standpoint. And then you have to think we had two houses too. So we had two shows going on. And then from there, if I'm making my, I'll have to, I don't have an animation or slide, I have my tree. So we had the two co-EPS.

Madelyn (12:01)
Your tree.

Pam Glennon (12:05)
And then for this show, we had three different, and this is all kind of story-based and practical. So we had three kind of different departments. So we had the control room supervising producer, and then we had producers underneath that that was really monitoring what was happening in the moment. There's basically story producers and story editors that were working in the control room. And then we had the segment team.

which I basically ended up being in the Segment Team. I wasn't technically called a Segment Producer because my role was a little outside of the box as kind of a general producer, but I kind of fit into the Segment Team bucket, and I'll get into that in a minute. And then we had, you know, a Challenge Producer, other shows that are heavy challenge-focused, might have a challenge department, but we kind of all were a part of Segment Team. And then...

we had field producers. So there was a supervising producer and then they had their field producers underneath them. So we kind of have these three spokes and then there's APs underneath them. And then I also don't want to forget logistics. So your line producers, your EIC, they're a whole other branch, you know, adjacent. They're not as concerned with what's happening story wise, but they are the ones that are.

you know, helping feed everybody with massive catering, help with transportation with cash. So we actually worked a lot with, you know, the wine producing team, the production managers, coordinators and assistants, because as, as the segment team, we had to work, we needed extra help with getting some of this stuff. We had a couple producers and a couple APs, associate producers on our team.

And this is just kind of one example of one show, but as segment producers, and this can be different things for different genres and shows, but these meddles or these pranks, we had to work with the art department team and props and special effects to prepare all these because in the control room,

they didn't necessarily know what order we were gonna do things. We had to cast, we had kind of an improv comic that we brought in as kind of the sub character that would go in. He was the butler in the show, but he was the one that was executing, like spilling a drink and, you know, getting, you know, just kind of, we needed somebody to help execute. So he was brought in as a cast member. And then some of this stuff was special effects.

Madelyn (14:22)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Pam Glennon (14:44)
We also were in charge of the dates. We were in charge of the challenges that were happening in the kids' house, anything outside. So a lot of outside dates, any sort of parties or restaurants or anything like that. were helping to find these deals, working with product placement team as well. Anything that you saw on camera, whether it was the, they were.

cooking a dinner, that had to have been planned. The food had to be shopped, all that stuff happened. Any car that you would see making sure that we had the right cars. so we kind of talked to everybody.

It was a massive undertaking. So it was a really wild. so when I say wild, fun and exhausting, that was a segment team. Cause I feel like not to take too much credit, but I feel like we were kind of this ecosystem that touched all these different departments. And that allowed the field producers to do their things and be asking the questions and interacting with cast and doing.

you know, those confessional interviews. then it allowed the control room to, if we did our job and everything was prepared and executed well, then they could just open up a book. That's, you know, what the co-EPs wanted. They wanted this book of medals that they could really decide a few hours before, if not in the moment. So we had to divide it up. What can we execute any time? What can, what do we need to do for a setup that requires setting up the day before?

dates, all these different things, because in reality, as much as we try to plan, things just happen in the moment. You don't know, especially in relationship shows, you don't know who's gonna connect. You don't know who's gonna be dating who. you can prepare and prepare, but you don't know necessarily what's gonna happen, which makes it so fun.

Madelyn (16:37)
It's a great breakdown and every production is unique because it all has its own needs, right?

What do you feel like walking away from that was your biggest like what would you really take with you as a producer?

Pam Glennon (16:48)
Wow, yeah, that's a great question.

It's fun and it's exciting. But a lot of times it is, you know, long hours. But we had a lot of fun on the show. So for me, I took away, I mean, there's obviously the knowledge of how a show like that is broken down, but I just gained such a huge amount of respect for, you know, the showrunners and co-EPs because, you know, I was focused on

kind of, you know, challenges, the medals, the dates, you know, making sure they were funny and aligned brand-wise and story-wise with what we're trying to do, but then how do we execute it? And then actually the pre-pro that goes into it and then pulling it off. So that was just one little component, whereas they need to oversee that, but at the same time, they're in it watching these things pan out. And how do you pull the best?

characters in together? How do you get them to talk about it? What different storylines and and story arcs do you want to go with and keep it visually interesting? There's just so much logistics that really they you know, you can't be a million people at the same time but they really were juggling a lot of hats and I think that we did a good job with with bringing those original creative ideas to life

I would say just knowing the massive undertaking, I think a lot of people have misconceptions about what a showrunner does how much they actually have to handle. And I think it's interesting because...

If you can be a showrunner, you can be an EP in one genre. If you took, you know, myself as an example, I did those roles in kind of docu-series and some travel shows and more magazine, but that was a lot more of a small, compact crew. So I would not have been able to step into that higher role in a format like this. So it's incredible.

Madelyn (18:41)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

I love that you recognized you wanted the experience and you wanted to broaden that. And you did it through someone who's a mentor. And I'd love to talk about how important mentorship is in this career path, I think there's so many times when,

you have someone in the industry you really look up to or who maybe isn't like formally your mentor, but as someone who has really helped you or guided you through, what did it look like, Pam, for you to communicate to them, hey, I'd really love this opportunity. Like, I know this isn't really what I've been doing in the past. I really want to learn. I want to figure this out.

in unscripted, you can get very pigeonholed, I guess you could say, right? Like you do doc, you do formats.

What does the art of that ask look like when you wanna go for an opportunity? And how do you do that respectfully, artfully, you recognize your own talents, but also your own limitations?

Pam Glennon (19:43)
Sure. So I think with my mom, your dad, and Sam, she took a risk on me because I didn't come from that genre. And she had core teams. She's done hugely successful, massive dating reality shows. So she had that core team.

You know, we had talked and I, you know, for me, it came about as like, hey, like, I would love to work on any shows or just even come visit and shadow you if there's any opportunities you have coming up. I'd love to help you and be a part of what you're doing and see what we've been talking about from your perspective in real life. So it was a little bit of a different situation. She happened to have this show that was starting to crew up.

and it just was the right timing, but I still had to go through the interview process and I was hired by the co-EPs. So did have to speak to, you know, how my experience would help them. And yes, I still had to go through it, but at the same time, you know, they, they, you know, saw I would be good at maybe this direction, right? So let's put her like, would you want to do this? And I was like, yes, this sounds amazing. I'd love to be part of the creative and

Madelyn (20:35)
put yourself out there. Totally.

Pam Glennon (20:55)
And it just kind of, you know, ended up working out and, you know, I worked really hard during that show because, you know, you always have to work hard and every that's the thing with TV is every gig you're kind of reproving yourself over again. But I would say with other shows that I've worked on, a lot of it's through word of mouth. But I think you do have to advocate for yourself like you do in anything. And I think especially now

Madelyn (21:08)
Mm-hmm.

Pam Glennon (21:21)
the job market isn't great. There's not a ton, ton being made and unscripted compared to some of the numbers, maybe, you know, several years ago. that being said, I think approaching it, not so much of an aggressive like hire me, like, how can you help this production? How do you fit into this production? How can you, you know, get something learn?

but also how does your skill set compliment what they're doing on this project or in the show?

It's very easy to get almost.

pigeon-holed into these specific pathways. And I think branching out and dabbling and asking questions about somebody's experience, yes, it might be very different from what you're experiencing, what you're going to experience, but it helps you inform and not just, you know, one person. The more people you can talk to, the more informed.

you're gonna be and then you're gonna start to figure out how it all comes together and how you can fit into it as well.

Madelyn (22:29)
It's great advice. mean, it is difficult to advocate for yourself when you're young. I have a lot of people who reach out to me via the pod who want to get into it and are curious and like, don't know how to make an intro email or don't want to be too gutsy. They say like, don't reach out to people to pick their brain and da da da da. But I do find that the number one thing you can do, and you talked about this in these situations is get really comfortable knowing your strengths.

and knowing how to translate what you've done with what you can do for them. And that's a practice, that's a muscle. And if you can do that, approaching a mentor or putting yourself up for an opportunity can come easily because you're practiced in what you can bring to the table, you can communicate it confidently, but it certainly can be intimidating, especially for people who, again, it's tough, right? Because it's like...

I've never been on set, but I need a chance to get on set for me to get the experience on the set. Just give me the chance. But the core of that is be able to talk about your strengths and, and how that can translate. Even if you have never been there, make it clear that you understand what it takes to be there and why you have that. And I think that's maybe the key. I love, you know, you, speaking of mentorship, you, you're a teacher. You are a professor.

Pam Glennon (23:45)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (23:46)
You are very much looking at and focused on the next generation of storytellers. Talk to me about how being a professor has changed the way you currently work. Just being around younger minds and sort of shifting your perspective a little bit.

Pam Glennon (24:07)
Sure, so I teach at Bryant University. I'm a lecturer there and I teach on scripted television. I teach media production, digital production, documentary filmmaking, and more of the media content side of things. So I teach a few different classes there while also balancing a few things outside. But I really have focused. This is my first year doing it.

have really put a lot of energy into focusing into this because this is almost like a totally different, even though I'm teaching things that I've worked in for 20 plus years now, it's a different career in itself. yeah.

Madelyn (24:46)
totally. mean, teaching, doing

something and teaching something completely different. It's really amazing.

Pam Glennon (24:53)
Yeah, so I had coached, this is a whole nother conversation, but I had coached figure skating since I was 16. yeah, so yeah, just a little snippet. I don't think people would guess that about me or just see me, but so I did have this kind of instructional background. And then I found I loved mentoring up and coming students, or not students, but up and coming.

Madelyn (25:02)
Whoa, what a piece of lore.

Love that.

love that.

Pam Glennon (25:21)
young professionals, so PAs that were enthusiastic and asking questions and wanted to learn more, right? I love that part of my job and some of them are now producers and we all still keep in touch and I love seeing their success and that started to become one of my favorite parts of the job. So it was just something I had wanted to do eventually in life and then I ended up moving.

from California to Rhode Island on the East Coast. At the same time, this opportunity presented itself and just all the stars aligned. So I really just dove in. It's more of a recent thing. And I love Brian. My colleagues have been really helpful coming with somebody that doesn't have necessarily this.

academic background in instructing. did a couple guest speaking engagements in some university classes, but that's very different. they've been really helpful and they're really forward thinking in regards to bringing on professionals that can teach the next generation. So they have a great balance of the academic.

you know, full through PhD side with, know, okay, who can we bring in that's working in this world, even if they don't necessarily have this PhD, they have the equivalent experience, are they going to bring something to our department? So, they actually have a lot of training and have been really open and helpful with helping me throughout the different semesters because it is a big change. But I'd say going back to your original question, one of the biggest things I found was

You don't necessarily know what somebody is thinking on the other side. So I'm up here and I can ramble on from I've been known to be a talker. So there's obviously ways I try to make my classes very dialogue heavy, a lot of exercises, we're shooting, we're editing, we're hands on. So it's not just me up there lecturing. That's just not my style. But when I do have to lecture and present

some information with slides. Some students are just more naturally quiet and not showing a lot of, you know, nonverbal cues that they're paying attention. And I've been shocked with some of the students that come talk to me at the end of the semester or at the end of class who I thought they were bored and not paying attention or just not into it because I can't tell. I don't know what they're thinking.

Madelyn (27:49)
Mm-hmm.

Pam Glennon (27:50)
right? And they'll be like, I really love this class and this is something I want to be doing. And I'm shocked because I wouldn't, you know, maybe they're just not the most vocal students. They're not as comfortable participating. So I think that's really interesting that you just don't know what the other person on the other side is thinking in that kind of setting. It's very different from just having a conversation with somebody.

Madelyn (28:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah, but that's why it's important as a young, like to, gotta, you gotta tell people, I am interested. I want this opportunity, right? Cause how could you know, especially if they are typically, I know that society rewards extraversion and I don't necessarily think that's right, but I do think you have to communicate. So if you, let's say you had an opportunity to bring one of your students on set in a similar way that your mentor did with you, right? What is like the number,

Pam Glennon (28:43)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (28:45)
the number one characteristic you would look for to be like, that's the person that I feel I would sign my name to them, I'd bring them on, I think they'd get a lot out of it. Like, is there a particular characteristic that gives you confidence that makes you wanna give someone an opportunity?

Pam Glennon (29:01)
Mm hmm. I would just say there's a few different things. So one is showing a genuine excitement and interest and eagerness to learn. So maybe that's not always apparent in a class dynamic, even if somebody is a little bit more soft spoken or saves their conversations or questions for after class, because maybe they just don't

feel comfortable, you know, speaking. I try to get everybody engaged and everybody comfortable, but you know, just not everybody is going to be comfortable trying to answer a question, just a confident thing. So I think just the, the genuine interest has to be there and excitement and passion to learn. That's because if you're kind of like, Oh, I have to go do this or, Oh, this is just a paycheck or a job.

you know, then it's going to be difficult, I feel like, throughout the process. But if somebody is excited about the show, excited about the project, excited about the creative, I want to bring them in because then they're going to be more willing to add just the bare minimum. Even PAs. So the PAs that I've mentored that went on to become successful, they're the ones that they're not just sitting in the chair on their phone.

you know, gaming or scrolling in the middle of set there, you know, sometimes there's downtime, you know, hurry up and wait is our motto in production, right? So sometimes there isn't stuff to do, but if they come up to me and they see that I'm, you know, on the walkie, I'm running around, I'm juggling, there's a pile of receipts, you know, sitting on my desk. If they come up and they're like, what can I do to help? Or do you have anything I, you know, you have anything I can do?

Madelyn (30:30)
Mm-hmm.

Pam Glennon (30:52)
and they pose it in a way that makes me think they actually do want to do something and they're going to be helpful. That makes a huge difference if they ask questions, if they show the interest. Also just a positive attitude as well. Sometimes you just want to work with people that...

see this as an opportunity. Not every job is going to be this groundbreaking creative or this, you know, Emmy-winning show. So I think it's, it's, have to have a little bit of enthusiasm and positivity.

Madelyn (31:27)
I love how nothing that you mentioned is a hard skill set. Nothing. You did not say spreadsheet. did like it is positive attitude, passion and enthusiasm. And I hear that talked about constantly here. That is such a key to being given opportunities. We're talking about how difficult it is to be a freelancer coming up in the industry, having that say yes attitude.

is the way to get the call or for people to want to give you opportunities. I do wanna talk a little bit, you've got, it's so crazy, you have so much going on, you're a lecturer, but you also just kind of launched a new venture where you're really going back to your roots as...

you know, someone in that like factual, branded, travel, sports, lifestyle, genre. Talk to me about this latest venture and what your hopes and goals are for it what you guys are really working on.

Pam Glennon (32:20)
Yeah, so From the Forest Entertainment is sort of this new production company, immersive experience company and content company. So we are based in Rhode Island, but we have satellite offices in Los Angeles and Boston.

I lived in California many years, but I always had this East Coast roots and knew I was always going to come back this day. So I tried to keep a little bit of a hand out in the production scene out here as well. So we're really focused on sports, adventure, travel, kind of this comfort content in the branded content space, but also branded entertainment and

documentary and kind of this docu-series space. Why? Because it brings basically a lot of my background in these different genres and formats kind of into one space and one place. And I thought there was definitely some room in the East Coast for a production company that focuses a little bit more on these genres specifically.

and that's doing high-end cinematic style content with really the story and entertainment perspective first and foremost.

Madelyn (33:36)
No, you have some incredible clients here. And as we see brands creating their own studios, Dick's Sporting Goods Studio, Chick-fil-A, the Kansas City Chiefs. I mean, we are at a rapid rate seeing brands open their own entertainment studios and just instead of sponsoring content, they're creating it.

and they're becoming entertainers themselves. So at this intersection of brand and entertainment, how are you as an independent producer aligning all these pieces, right? when you look at packaging and putting all these things together, are you approaching brands and for opportunities?

I don't think anyone quite has a perfect formula for it yet. I'm curious how you approach it.

Pam Glennon (34:20)
Sure, so I would say you're absolutely right. It isn't just a one size fits all solution. So throughout my career, and now what we're doing with From the Forest Entertainment,

there's a few different ways to go about kind of getting projects and getting business and some of them have been, you know, an RFP, like a referral for project where, you know, this is coming from an ad agency in particular.

that kind of came up with the creative and they're looking for a production partner to execute. They're looking for a director to come in and help bring their specific creative vision to life. And then my job as an executive producer is to come up with the approach and bring in the right people.

and it really starts with bringing in the right director when it's more of a commercial branded content piece. And I would say that some of it's come from ad agency, some of it's come from just relationships with different brands, working direct with brands over the years.

relationships with some other folks that I've partnered with long time clients that have been with me.

you know, hiring me as an independent producer, hiring me with whatever company I'm kind of associated or working with. And now luckily supporting my new production company and new venture that I'm kind of overseeing as, as the founder and head of that. So I think that's really the work comes from all different places. And I would say sometimes when we go back to documentary and unscripted in particular,

Madelyn (35:41)
Mm.

Pam Glennon (35:54)
Sometimes it's just the idea comes from you when you see a network need or you see a distribution need and then you know of a brand that would be interested in this branded entertainment realm, right? And then sometimes you can get everybody all in the same room and you come up with the idea and you start getting interest. Would you be interested in this if, you know...

X, Y, and Zs on board. And it's a little bit of the chicken or the egg because nobody wants to be the first person, so...

Madelyn (36:26)
Oh my god, are you kidding? You're,

I know, trust me. It's like, if I, we're gonna talk to this person, we may or may not be talking to them. And if we did, would you guys, like it's, it's so that all the time, right?

Pam Glennon (36:38)
Yes.

But you can't say, like, hey, I'm working with this person's on board until they're actually on board. So it's a fine art in itself about presenting it in a way where everybody's excited about the potential and getting the people in the room. So, yeah.

Madelyn (36:43)
Uh-huh. Right. Yes, it is.

Yes. Yes. Everyone

is excited about the potential is the favorite, the favorite phrase. Yes, exactly. What do you find you're pitching a lot right now? I mean, you know, is our feature docs still hot? Is everyone going short doc? Are we going podcast? Are we going immersive audio? Like, what are you, what are you working a lot in nowadays right now? Verticals? I mean,

Pam Glennon (37:00)
you

Yeah,

Being an educator has kind of sparked this interest in in me because we're having a lot of conversations about bringing in AI, vertical dramas, all the newest things that are happening and the trends and what are these different career paths and what is it going to do to the industry and the existing careers, right? So.

There's, so for me, I've just kind of been sparked with this curiosity. So I'm really, you know, trying to gain as much knowledge as I can. So that's been really exciting. So, yeah. So I'd say from things that I'm pitching from more of an entertainment standpoint, there's some sports docu-series that I'm really passionate about working in that space, being on the East coast.

from Rhode Island, Boston area. I started my career in live broadcast sports and I started by working at Reebok and ESPN and Fox Sports and doing content within that space. And I found kind of doing the branded content and some of the documentary pieces have always been some of my favorite projects. So I'm really passionate about

few things we're developing in that space. And I would say for me, I'm still, a little bit more focused on more docu-series. There has been a few formats floated around documentary standalone ideas, which is also really interesting. So there's actually a project, I can't go into too much detail.

but it's one that we're kind of weighing out. Could this be a limited series? Should this be a standalone documentary film? Yeah, so, and it's kind of a little bit interesting right now because I feel like the more traditional models of coming up with the idea, developing it,

bringing on a select few partners and pitching is sort of going out the window a little bit. Whereas like, it's not uncommon for a brand now to be excited and to come in versus going to a brand after the fact, know, bringing in brand partners before you even pitch to networks on the front end. So, you know, a little bit more,

Madelyn (39:33)
yeah, on the front end. Yes.

Pam Glennon (39:39)
starting to dabble more in that space and then thinking about distribution, where would the right home be eventually? So, and it helps the networks, obviously, when you're alleviating some of the cost. But yeah, does it make it more complex? Yes, absolutely, because you have more creative stakeholders, right? I did this series several years ago, which was commissioned by Vans.

Madelyn (40:04)
Mmm. Yeah.

Pam Glennon (40:04)
the shoe company, shoe

and apparel company, and surf skate culture. And we filmed it. And then after the fact filming it, we partnered with Red Bull to do this partnership and distribute it. So it went on Red Bull TV and then Red Bull also helped with distributing it with some of their partners. you know, we aired it on Hulu. So it didn't go on to Hulu until we had already made it and

Madelyn (40:29)
Yeah.

Pam Glennon (40:30)
you know, it had already been created. So I think there's...

Madelyn (40:33)
I mean, Red Bull, one

of the OG in branded content, right? Like when you look at where it all kind of started. that's so interesting. Yeah, it is. I agree with you. It's the puzzle pieces are all interesting now, or maybe you'll take something to a network and they'll be like, yeah, there's brand interests. Yeah, come back. Then we'll talk. But a lot of the times I'm getting it on the front end. So projects are taking a lot longer in development. It's, yeah, it's interesting.

Pam Glennon (40:36)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (40:57)
And then each buyer is different in terms of their appetite for brands. Some are like, attach a brand, we'll put it out, whatever. There's just all different types of hoops to jump through and it's all really interesting. And your insights have been really wonderful.

Pam Glennon (41:11)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (41:13)
You teach students, how do you try to still remain a student in your day-to-day life and with your work?

Pam Glennon (41:22)
And there's part of me that, you know, wants to make sure that one, I'm hearing because, you know, right now, like I'm not necessarily, you know, focused on those segments, those producer field producer gigs, hop on a show for a couple months and

and freelancing, more focused on teaching and growing the company and pitching certain select projects. So for me, staying in touch with a lot of directors and DPs, editors, showrunners, creators, just touching base and seeing what they're working on. we just talk shop and start talking about the trends. So that's been really helpful.

Um, yeah, just seeing what everybody's doing in the trades, you know, I still read the trades. think it's very important. tell my students, if this is what you want to do, you need to, you know, whether it's real screen or a variety or some of the other trade magazines out there, um, you know, just give a, give a read every once in a while, keep up with them, know the headlines, see what's happening in the industry as a whole. Um, podcasts.

Madelyn (42:11)
Same.

Pam Glennon (42:33)
You know, LinkedIn, just, you know, it's, it's really like simple and easy ways, but I would say definitely I learn a lot from, you know, just keeping conversations going. I think it's really easy to talking. Yep. So fall out of touch. So yeah.

Madelyn (42:45)
Yeah, talking to people. Well, we just don't, well, they

do. it's, you know, a lot of times you get, you only talk to people when you have something you're working together on. And it's rare that you're like, let's just have a chat. Like, I want to hear what you're working on. You know, I think those things are so important and they don't feel critical when you're looking at your day to day and the things you have to get done. But they really are such fertile ground. Like I leave so many of conversations like that where you're like, let's just sync up. Let's just like.

Pam Glennon (42:56)
Uh-huh.

Madelyn (43:15)
see what's going on. And I always leave those conversations feeling so creatively fulfilled and with new ideas, right? And I think as producers and as creators, we have to make sure that we're fitting those things in. Yeah, you're exactly right. I have to know, are you watching Real Housewives of Rhode Island? Do you have an opinion? Oh, yes. Okay. I love it.

Pam Glennon (43:27)
Absolutely.

yes, yes, absolutely,

absolutely. So when I was moving to Rhode Island, we moved July and we were closing on the house in August and it was like this crazy whirlwind and I noticed that they were shooting it last summer and I just saw, even on like Staff Me Up, I saw they were looking for PAs and I'm like, I got it, maybe I should try to work on this. I ended up being so crazy but.

Madelyn (44:00)
Ha

Pam Glennon (44:02)
yes, I have definitely been following kind of the making and creating end. I do have some friend producers, not necessarily on this show, but I've done other Housewives, So, I've definitely chatted with them and I have a group thread with a bunch of girls that I grew up with in high school. And, it was previously, we had a milestone age.

Madelyn (44:02)
Love it.

Pam Glennon (44:25)
that we all turned last year, so I won't go into what that age is, we have this group thread going and somebody, it kind of went quiet for a couple months, and then the other day somebody said, are you watching Real Housewives, or is anyone watching Real Housewives that went from Rhode Island? There's 10 people on this group thread, so everybody has, so.

Madelyn (44:47)
is involved.

Pam Glennon (44:49)
Everyone's been watching it and people

Madelyn (44:50)
I love it.

Pam Glennon (44:51)
that weren't gonna watch it or don't like reality, we sent them to YouTube. So I've seen the first couple episodes. I need to catch up because I think the third one was released. I think we're going on four now.

Madelyn (45:03)
It's getting rave

reviews. think that these new, know, you're like, another Housewives, but the fact, I love that they found a new pocket of the country, different people, culturally very different. And I just, think it's so interesting. So, well, I actually haven't started watching because I'm like, everyone keeps talking about how good it is. like, okay, I got to dive in. So I will send you my thoughts, but it's been so wonderful having you on Pam. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your knowledge with us and.

Also just thank you for being an educator. Like it's so important and especially for this next generation of students, no matter what they're doing, it's having people like you is so critical and so crucial. And so thank you for what you do and really excited to see what more comes from the forest. And we'll be adding that into the show notes so everyone can go check you out, follow you for more so that we can keep rooting for you.

Pam Glennon (45:55)
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me on. Bye bye.

Madelyn (45:59)
Thanks.

Madelyn (46:05)
Thanks so much for listening to my chat with Pam. You can follow us at Unscripted Files Pod on Instagram. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, rate, review, all the things. And we will be back next week with another long form conversation with a creative in the unscripted industry. Thanks again for listening. Happy Friday.