[00:00:00] Richard: Visual readoffs are all centralized, miniaturized, and set on, uh, s- schematic panels now. And then the, the data compiled is all automatically computed, and there's an automatic, uh, typewritten panel on, you see? So that the operator is only- 

[00:00:16] Azae: Now, now, now, now please wait a minute. I don't understand one word you're saying.

But it sounds great

[00:00:28] Bunny: I'm so sorry. I'm the old-fashioned type

[00:00:40] Matthew: Hello, and welcome once again to the IMMP podcast from the Inter-Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter. 

[00:00:48] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. 

[00:00:50] Matthew: I'm his dad, he's my son, and I think in some ways it's still Christmas in July with this episode. 

[00:00:58] Ian: I think so. Don't mind the sound of the tape measure in the background.

I'm just, just measuring the podcast for some additions. 

[00:01:06] Matthew: Are you planning to replace your co-host with an electronic brain? 

[00:01:10] Ian: Maybe. We'll figure that out. We've had 200 episodes. It's been a good run.

Oh, but yeah, no, no. This is a very holiday styled episode. And, well, a fil- a film that has Christmas as a plot point- ... but it's, I wouldn't call it a Christmas movie. 

[00:01:33] Matthew: No, it's, it's not a Christmas movie. It's, it's less of a Christmas movie than Die Hard is in some ways. And yet Christmas factors into the plot.

It takes place over the course of November, I think, to just the, uh, the new year, uh, over the Christmas season. 

[00:01:50] Ian: Oh, absolutely. Although I would love to see the crossover there. Die Hard and Desk Set. 

[00:01:59] Matthew: Ah. 

[00:02:00] Ian: Just have him break into the Federal Broadcasting Network building in- ... Midtown Manhattan. 

[00:02:05] Matthew: Yeah. We're talking about 1957's Desk Set with, uh, Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn.

[00:02:11] Ian: This is one of those movies that you have shown me well before the podcast. Yeah. I've tried to remember. This is one of those pre-podcast instances, and I'm almost certain this is one of those interesting double I've gotta show you this. Because I remem- in watching this again for the podcast, I remembered watching it with you and you saying, "Oh, I did show you this."

So I think every once in a while you forget we've seen Desk Set, and we re-watch Desk Set. But I'm not- ... complaining about that. And I don't think that means this is a forgettable movie. I just think this is a very repeatedly poignant movie. 

[00:02:54] Matthew: It is. It's also a movie for which there are many different angles, uh, from which to appreciate it.

So many different things to focus on, that sometimes I watch this and I focus on one thing. Sometimes I'll think about the movie, and what comes to mind is something completely different. So that's another reason why it, it does reward multiple viewings, I think. And it's just fun. It's always fun to see this kind of dialogue and repartee.

[00:03:19] Ian: Oh, yeah. This is... Desk Set is a strange midpoint when it comes to films we've done on the podcast. It's a strange midpoint between His Gal Friday and Colossus: The Forbin Project. Yeah. Like, right there in the middle of that, of that, uh, gradient lands Desk Set. Because this is a, this is a clever romance film about people and the computers that control modern society.

[00:03:52] Matthew: And it is an issue sometimes that when we go back to an old movie, this is from, what, 1957? Sometimes when you go back, go back to an old movie, the concerns that the movie is addressing, it's hard to find ways that they can resonate today. So for example, Desk Set is about the reference department in a, nationwide television network, essentially being taken over by or being threatened with a giant computer into which they are feeding all of the reference information available, and which they are then expecting to be able to answer all the questions that people might have and give them the reference citations that they need.

And finding that it's not necessarily a, reliable thing, even as it seems to threaten people's jobs. So it's- You know ... it's hard to relate to that- ... in 2026. Can't imagine how people might, uh, find a way to think about that issue. 

[00:04:47] Ian: Oh, I, I wonder. Absolutely. Oh, boy. Uh, yeah, no. Desk Set, yeah, continues to remain poignant.

There, at, when this came out, because it was based on, like, a 1955 play, I take it. 

[00:05:01] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:05:02] Ian: But this came out in 1957. And in n- '57, the, the concept of digitization of the workforce in that sense, the, the changes in methodology, was an interesting backdrop for this story. And then it has become, oh, Desk Set is weirdly poignant as we enter the .com era.

And Desk Set is an interesting commentary in the era of Wikipedia and online, reference pools. And now Desk Set in the age of AI still works. 

[00:05:43] Matthew: It does. And not, uh, at the risk of jumping ahead too far, towards the end we see people interacting with a computer in ways that were not really practical, w- that were purely science fiction until a few years ago.

[00:05:56] Ian: Oh, yeah. 

[00:05:57] Matthew: Just asking general knowledge questions and expecting to get answers, and sometimes getting answers. Sometimes getting answers to the wrong questions, but there you have it. Mm-hmm. And interestingly, in this whole movie, it's clear that there wasn't even an established terminology. I don't think they use the word computer in this movie because in the '50s computer still meant a person whose job was to do mathematics and arithmetic.

[00:06:27] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:06:28] Matthew: Uh, they ta- they talk about, uh, an electronic brain or a mechanical brain. 

[00:06:33] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:06:33] Matthew: And they do talk about the fact that this, uh, same company put a machine into payroll, but that's just a calculator. 

[00:06:43] Ian: Mm. 

[00:06:43] Matthew: I don't even think the word computer is standardized yet. 

[00:06:46] Ian: It's really not. But for being a story about technology, this is a story about people more so than anything.

And I wanted to point out that stage play origin because my goodness, the, the framing and the setup and the design of this h- still has some of that stage play element- 

[00:07:05] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:07:06] Ian: in how this movie looks because it takes place 90% in this one department's room, the reference library of the Federal Broadcasting Network in Midtown Manhattan.

[00:07:20] Matthew: Yeah. They use- Which is- ... uh, 30 Rock, uh, the NBC headquarters for their- ... their establishing shots. But in the movie it's the Federal Broadcasting Company. 

[00:07:29] Ian: We get, the four girls who work the reference department and their desks in front of two levels of big bookshelves full of reference volumes, which we, by the way, don't see them go to too much-

because they just have the information in their heads. 

[00:07:47] Matthew: Yes. We occasionally see them pull out a book for some detail, but especially Katharine Hepburn as Bunny, the head of the reference department. She has so much in her knowledge and so much to hand just from memory. It's part of what makes her amazing.

But, uh, but you're right about the staging. You... Thinking about this on stage, you could absolutely do the entire thing with the one main set of this wonderful two-level reference department. And the few other things that we see over the course of the movie, to some extent maybe they were expanded for the sake of the movie.

Uh, to the extent you needed to put them on stage, those could be done as little temporary side sets or as little blackouts in front of the curtain as opposed to needing- Oh, yeah ... to do a lot of set changes. 

[00:08:34] Ian: So the fact that you've got that central location, plus the fact that that central location keeps you from seeing the rest of the building-

it, it, it actually works very well for this story. 

[00:08:45] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:08:47] Ian: But they are going about their business. And I gotta say, it, it... really funny that Bunny Watson- ... is the name of our main character- ... because of the later references that feels like it's making. 

[00:08:57] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:08:58] Ian: I'm like, look, the first things we hear is her coming in, and it's like, " hey, uh, sorry I'm late. They sent me over to see this presentation over at IBM about their new electronic brain." And immediately I'm like, IBM Watson? That's a- 

[00:09:14] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:09:16] Ian: What's a, what's a call forward in time? What's a reference you can't make 'cause you're not psychic but you did somehow?

[00:09:24] Matthew: Yeah. I wonder to what extent the, the decision to choose that name for the computer came partly from this. Yeah. As well as the obvious Holmes. And now I also think about, , is, uh, is Watson and her team being Sherlocked? 

[00:09:38] Ian: Yeah. Oh, that... Oh, good. Oh, boy, that's a... Oh, nice one. But no, we get to see them, this, this group of the four ladies, Oh, Bunny, Peg, Sylvia, and Ruthie- are just really good at their jobs. They are constantly getting phone calls from all the other departments needing specific information for their stories, and these four, they've got their specialties within it, but they're able to pull up the info, they're able to give the answers needed, and they're able to keep the place running smoothly.

[00:10:18] Matthew: And we see them, these are people at different stages in their career, at different ages, and it's interesting to see them as a group where those who are, have more experience are clearly training those who don't. Uh, Ruthie, I believe, is the youngest, and she clearly idolizes Bunny and wants to be Bunny when she grows up.

Oh, absolutely. And is trying to impress, and Bunny is encouraging that and helping her i- in every way. And you're right, the others have their own attitudes and their own specialties, and they have a lot of knowledge just in their memories and the ability to find it quickly. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's interesting as the, the, the movie goes on, we s- see them fielding these phone calls, and they're getting phone calls, everything from d- documentaries to the news bureau to game shows that are checking their facts about answers on a quiz.

[00:11:11] Ian: Yes. 

[00:11:11] Matthew: Every piece of knowledge that this network needs to confirm, it goes through these ladies. 

[00:11:17] Ian: You get the feeling that, you know, nothing gets actually sent out unless it has gone through them at least once in some form. 

[00:11:25] Matthew: Yes. And that goes beyond their jobs, too. 

[00:11:29] Ian: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:30] Matthew: Because there is also Mike, who's an executive And he- Yeah

he is ki- Bunny is kind of his girlfriend, he's kind of her boyfriend, but he keeps putting her off. They have been s- going together for quite some time. She keeps expecting him to propose to her and he never does, and yet he clearly takes advantage of her. He is on the rise in the company, but every memo that he writes, every proposal that he's involved in, he runs past her and has her polish it up and provide her input, and she is essentially doing 80% of his job along with doing her job.

[00:12:09] Ian: Exactly. And it's this interesting thing of the fact that they're able... Katharine Hepburn is a driving force in this film, and there's something, she's always got something of a style in any of the films I've seen her in, but there's a specific style she puts for Bunny- 

[00:12:26] Matthew: Yeah ... 

[00:12:27] Ian: that is this slight manic- 

[00:12:31] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:12:31] Ian: but under control.

And it's a style I've seen other actors and actresses mimic elsewhere. but there's something about that, like, high-intensity energy where it's, it makes it work that she can simultaneously play extremely competent and socially blind in just the right combo for a story like this to work. 

[00:12:56] Matthew: It does. And she's somebody who, with the exceptions of the blind spots around Mike and how he's treating her and what- Mm-hmm

their respective expectations are, she is somebody who's very at home with who she is and very happy with who she is. And she also has the ability to be a little bit objective about that, where she'll have these, these... She'll be, um, manic and high energy, and she loves knowing things and being able to come up with this knowledge.

Early on, someone needs references to a poem, and it's the Hiawatha poem, and, she's looking for the book, and as she's looking for the book, she's reciting it from memory because she knows the whole thing. But then a- after she hangs up for that phone call and people are asking her questions, she's answering the questions in the same meter as the poem, and she, without stopping, you see her kind of have this little mental step back and smile, and she's being amused by the fact that it's having this effect on her.

[00:13:59] Ian: Oh, absolutely. The opening is very swift in that way, but we get those moments of Bunny having that amusement, but delight in her work. And we get to see the other characters have their own things. Uh, her best friend Peg, who also works there, is something of the, the gossip, but in a very, like...

Uh, oh, this is gonna be a wild reference. She fills the same role that, the friend in Ant-Man does. Where it's, "This guy said that thing and said this to this." Like- 

[00:14:34] Matthew: She's Luis, huh? 

[00:14:36] Ian: Absolutely. I

didn't, I, I... 

[00:14:42] Matthew: Put the dime in 

[00:14:42] Ian: out- 

[00:14:43] Matthew: I, I don't- ... let the whole song play. 

[00:14:44] Ian: Yeah. I don't think anyone in all of history before this has compared Michael Peña And JoAnne Blondell, but- ... uh, the style fits. 

[00:14:55] Matthew: Yep. 

[00:14:55] Ian: they play that same, like, energy and the, the core of the social element. Sylvia is kind of the fourth member of the group, plays the, the solid straight man when everyone else gets crazy.

And Ruthie is the new girl trying and looking up to Bunny. But that gives us this four-person dynamic, and they're bouncing stuff off of each other, not just facts and questions, but just set up and social interaction so much.

[00:15:23] Matthew: And it works to drive the story so well that you're right, it is very gossip fueled. Mm-hmm. And it's gossip among them, and it's gossip that they heard from other people in the building, and they're getting information from the guy from the legal department across the hall. It's very believable about, office culture in the 1950s, and it also works as a story driver so effectively.

[00:15:45] Ian: But of c- this all is very, very active when suddenly, uh, you know, Mike is in a tizzy showing up, going to meetings and such, but there's this other guy who's shown up. Spencer Tracy as Richard Sumner.

And

he is doing so much as well, just playing this focused, slightly not here at the time guy. 

[00:16:14] Matthew: Yes. And talk about somebody who is simultaneously oblivious to how he appears to anybody else, and when he knows, not really caring how he appears to anybody else, 'cause he's got his focus. 

[00:16:29] Ian: He has got his focus, he's come in, he's immediately started measuring the room, and everyone's trying to figure out who he is and what he does 

[00:16:39] Matthew: And he is a consultant who's been hired by the head of the network to determine whether and how they can install an electronic brain in the reference department 

[00:16:55] Ian: Mm-hmm 

[00:16:55] Matthew: To help take some, help take some of that workload.

And they, just as they've recently done in the payroll department. So he works for a company, uh, that, or his company has developed this electronic brain, um- 

[00:17:10] Ian: Yeah ... 

[00:17:11] Matthew: uh, EMERAC. 

[00:17:14] Ian: That is such a good name for, for- ... the Electromagnetic Memory and Research Arithmetical Calculator. That is one of those, "Ah, how have I not heard this fake mach- fake computer acronym used somewhere else" scenarios 

[00:17:34] Matthew: And it is so much, in keeping with that early era of computers where you've got names like ENIAC from 1945 and such.

It's- 

[00:17:41] Ian: Oh, it's- 

[00:17:42] Matthew: EMERAC is a very believable computer name. 

[00:17:44] Ian: It is very believable A- and it also has some fun of the fact that it's, you know, Emmy 

[00:17:50] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:17:50] Ian: So they, e- everyone gets to immediately humanize the, uh, the giant machine with the name Emmy

[00:17:57] Matthew: And of course this is great concern for the people in the reference department because, the word is that once the EMERAC was installed in payroll, half the department was laid off. 

[00:18:08] Ian: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:08] Matthew: And is, are they bringing a, uh, an electronic brain in here to take over our jobs and then we're gonna be let go?

[00:18:16] Ian: But in trying to understand whether or not this could work in this location, Richard has to talk to Bunny a bunch. He's gotta interview her about what the job is like 

[00:18:29] Matthew: I can admire the fact that he's not just plugging in th- he's bringing in this giant machine, promising the head of the network that it is going to do everything it needs to do, and then figuring out what the job is.

He's spending a month or more shadowing the department. He starts out with with questions for, for Bunny, and then he shadows the department to, learn what the job is before he can configure, EMERAC to do that job. Mm-hmm. But those initial interactions with Bunny are fascinating because we can see that barrier that he has between himself and the rest of the world that doesn't have to do with his job start to come down because she's so strange and interesting.

[00:19:12] Ian: Yeah. And This is a movie where they really played well with the ages of their actors at the time,

because Katharine Hepburn already had a very good career before this, as did Spencer Tracy. Neither of them are early in their career. And what you've got is Spencer Tracy is a guy with graying hair at this point.

So him showing up and playing this character, it has that element of the man who's been working on a project for all this time and has not been interacting with other people. They don't hide the age of the characters in this film- 

[00:19:54] Matthew: No, no. 

[00:19:55] Ian: Katharine Hepburn's got the little bit of extra, lines and a little bit of the extra gray in her hair, which means the idea that she's been waiting on Mike, played by the much younger, uh, literally Gig Young.

[00:20:11] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:20:12] Ian: It all really works because there's this element of, like, two people who have been waiting or stuck somewhere interacting with each other, and the experience these actors has actually plays into their character in that sense. 

[00:20:27] Matthew: Yeah. They, the, for each of them, they are the catalyst for the other's change, not the change they were hoping for or expecting or I think Sumner's, part, not really being interested in it, and yet it does change their lives having this interaction.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I have to admit, I, I can appreciate watching a movie, especially now, uh, watching a movie where the, the, the leading man in the romantic comedy is closer to my age and closer to my build than the typical leading man in a romantic comedy. 

[00:20:57] Ian: Oh, yeah. That's a good point.

but yeah, the fact that they have just immediate chemistry as actors and as characters works so well here. because it starts out with this, was supposed to be like back and forth memory tests to understand baseline from him, and it turns into this weird, like, reversal scene- ... where she keeps on preempting his questions and knowing what the next piece is because she's able to relate stuff, and he's never encountered anyone who can do that.

[00:21:30] Matthew: And, and he's fascinated because it's not just a question of, "Oh, I am very, very intelligent and educated, and now I've met somebody else who's very intelligent and educated." They clearly both are. Of course, he's, you know, leader in his field. and she has her, bachelor's degree and a master's degree and was heading for a PhD until the money ran out and, but she's continued to learn and educate herself.

And yet her way of understanding the world and her way of figuring things out always surprises him. He'll ask this question designed to gauge her ability to, remember details and calculate and recognize differences or similarities, and she'll immediately have the answer. And he's, "How did you know that?"

And she'll explain this thing about- Associating words with numbers, and the number was relevant because this, I've, I've been to this place three times, had no act- uh, actual objective connection to the subject matter or the details. And yet it's the way her mind works, and she's able to use that to come up with this information and these analyses in an instant.

[00:22:38] Ian: She is a lady whose entire mind is built on layers upon layers of mnemonics- 

[00:22:45] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:22:46] Ian: to condense information into her head in a way that is so fascinating to him as a man who's tried to break down how memory works in order to make a giant electronic version of it. And he- And she's doing, yeah, she's doing relation and connection things he could never imagine building, and he's fascinated.

[00:23:08] Matthew: Yeah. But why do you connect that? Because I was there three times. What if you had only been there two times? Well, I wasn't, I was there three times, that's why I knew it. 

[00:23:15] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:23:17] Matthew: It's, it's interesting. It's almost as if he is focused on, how can I take this knowledge and use it to enhance what my electronic brain can do?

But to do that, it has to be repeatable and it has to be objective, and nothing about the way that she does this is repeatable and objective. 

[00:23:37] Ian: Oh, yeah. But the sparks are there, and he's sticking around as he continues to work. And there's this fun little montage almost of just them going about their day, and he's just there.

You know, checking where floor joists are, wandering around, but also just watching how their, they do their jobs. 

[00:23:59] Matthew: And they're being very uptight. It was a pretty casual office, and they had friends in other departments, and they'd go out for lunch or coffee breaks or things. And suddenly, if he's around, they don't wanna be doing anything except working really hard because , they're all so concerned that his reports back to , the network executives are going to affect whether they're considered necessary or not.

[00:24:19] Ian: Mm-hmm.

So this tension is there, and yet he and Bunny keep getting a little closer

[00:24:26] Matthew: And they have opportunities for these conversations where they learn about each other's backgrounds, learn about what interests them. Mm-hmm. Uh, they're caught in a rainstorm at one point, and they wind up back at Bunny's apartment having dinner while his clothes dry out. And that leads to kind of the classic, romantic comedy, three-way argument as Mike, who was supposed to be off on a business trip, comes in and assumes that there's more going on here than there is.

[00:24:55] Ian: But that's the thing. He immediately jumps to the assumption that there must be more, and is very aggressive at Bunny about it. You know, if he has to change plans on something, she must be a- ready and available. But if something's happening with Bunny, he will assume the worst and demand that that must be the truth.

[00:25:15] Matthew: Yes. He is trying to exercise some kind of a control or ownership over Bunny and her life where he has made no similar offer of sharing his life with her. Mm-hmm. No commitment to her, and yet he expects a total commitment from her to him. 

[00:25:34] Ian: Uh, there's a, there's an early bit where the best friend Peg describes it like, "You've been an old coat in that closet that he knows where to reach for."

[00:25:41] Matthew: Yes.

[00:25:42] Ian: "One of these days, don't be there." And we get a fine example of that, especially because this is the first time that's really happened in front of Richard. And immediately Richard pushes back. 

[00:25:56] Matthew: Yes. He doesn't like this Mike guy. 

[00:25:59] Ian: In a single scene, we watch Richard go from appreciating Bunny to liking her, to being bothered by Mike's actions to straight up pushing back in a rival kind of way.

[00:26:15] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:26:15] Ian: And it's really fun to watch Spencer Tracy just flex acting chops of being able to see a man's entire internal thoughts as to what he thinks might be possible here shift over the course of that one bit. 

[00:26:29] Matthew: And at that stage, it seems as if even if he doesn't even... It hasn't occurred to him to entertain an idea about anything between him and Bunny.

Mm-hmm. He absolutely appreciates Bunny enough to know she deserves better than this guy. 

[00:26:45] Ian: Oh, yeah. W- we, we watch him enter that, enter that apartment as a, a friendly kinda coworker, and leave somewhere between a concerned friend and a romantic rival. 

[00:27:04] Matthew: Yes. And then there are other conversations that they have.

Like, of course we see the big office Christmas party, and it's ... This is one of those things that it seems like it's a staple of any portrayal of office culture in the '50s, that there were these office Christmas parties with tons of drinking and everything else. But- Oh, 

[00:27:22] Ian: goodness. 

[00:27:23] Matthew: The two of them wind up having this interesting conversation.

Bunny has had a lot of champagne. That's the only thing she drinks when she's lucky enough to get it, as she puts it. so they're all c- they're kind of loosened up a little bit, but they're, they're still, they're having this playful conversation where they're, they're up on the railing, uh, on that second level of the library and pretending that they're departing on a transatlantic voyage 

[00:27:46] Ian: Oh, yeah. 

[00:27:48] Matthew: And then, but then they have, start having a conversation where she's saying, "Well, it's my first cruise," and he's saying, "Well, I hope you enjoy it. I'm the captain." 

[00:27:55] Ian: Oh. Oh, no. There's a brilliant thing there because there's a lot of layer in that. 

[00:27:58] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:28:00] Ian: Because she's there trying to decide about, like, her future, possibly with Mike or not, and there's this whole thing of Richard's previous romantic interests we know, like, didn't quite go right.

[00:28:14] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:28:15] Ian: And the, you know, "Ah, no," you know, "I've been on this kind of trip many times before," you know? It's like, "Oh, it's my first time." "Oh? Don't tell anyone I'm the captain." There's a layer there of, like, "Oh, I've been in love and tried to find my future many times. This is my first, but I'm here-" 

[00:28:34] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:28:35] Ian: from him.

There's, they- they're fun, fun layers I think, where- That's a- ... I think they were going for multiple meanings. 

[00:28:42] Matthew: That's a great point. I'm sure you're right because there is that sense of, you know, he had opportunities before, and now, for the first time, he's paying attention to what's around him and recognizing this opportunity.

[00:28:57] Ian: I don't think I've seen scenes that are fueled by so much obvious alcohol- ... since, like, the 2012 version of Much Ado About Nothing, I will admit. The, uh, like, if, if one of the parts that do- obviously makes this a romantic comedy is just the number of champagne bottles that we see because- Yeah ... people are pulling fresh champagne bottles out of everywhere.

So. 

[00:29:19] Matthew: Yeah. We, we can't even cite the Thin Man movies because the characters in those have such a tolerance, it- Absolutely ... it does not necessarily affect their behavior. 

[00:29:29] Ian: But suddenly it's like, you know, you half expect someone to lift up a pot of plant that's been- ... in the background for every other scene, and there's a bottle of champagne tangling out where the roots should be.

It's things like that for a moment. It's, it's wild and crazy, but it, it explains the social lubrication that finally gets this, this, uh, romance going. After those moments, though- Absolutely. Richard Sumner is trying for Bunny's hand. 

[00:29:57] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:29:58] Ian: He is a romantic rival all the way. He has made the decision. 

[00:30:01] Matthew: He is smitten.

She is fascinated, but is still... can't give up this connection to Mike. 

[00:30:09] Ian: Yeah

this is then when we get the, the grand worry because in comes another person who works for the same, , company as, , Richard. She's going to be the one who runs the machine itself when it's there. And yep, they're installing EEMARAC right after the holidays, start of the new year. 

[00:30:36] Matthew: It's taking up the majority of the, the floor space in the- Mm-hmm

reference department. The whole place is dominated by this giant, very classical Hollywood looking electronic brain. A giant panel of lights and- Oh ... dis- uh, uh, tape drives. Yeah. And a huge console, a tiny portion of which is a , typewriter interface, and there's a, a card reader.

And apparently when we come back to the office and find that this has been installed, they have been... I don't know how they're doing this exactly. 

[00:31:10] Ian: Yeah. It's, 

[00:31:12] Matthew: but they've been digitizing all of the knowledge in the entire reference department library into cards that they're feeding into EMARAC. 

[00:31:27] Ian: And the, I'm sorry, is this optical text rec- recognition in 1957?

[00:31:32] Matthew: I don't know bec- or else they have a big army of fast typists, uh- 

[00:31:38] Ian: Yeah ... 

[00:31:39] Matthew: on punch machines. Because it is not fast to, uh, to enter this information on punch card machines. 

[00:31:45] Ian: No. But I mean, this is, this is a, a giant device in the middle of a stage that owes its legacy to, you know, the face on the face of, uh, the Wizard of Oz on stage performances and other giant centerpiece objects in the same sort of way.

So- 

[00:32:05] Matthew: I keep wanting to warn, Bunny about monsters from the id. 

[00:32:09] Ian: Yes, absolutely. 

[00:32:11] Matthew: He's installing , Krell technology there. 

[00:32:13] Ian: Oh, absolutely. It's got that same sort of vibe.

And, and yet it's very fascinating and fun, and they have fun with this, this device because it's got this, it's this giant thing. It's got this big printout in the center, and it's got this very obvious emergency red key for a shutdown- Yeah ... procedure, which is, like, both poorly placed, as a person who has studied ergonomic and UI design before-

I'm like, "Don't put that there. You put that in the top left of the main surface, please." 

[00:32:45] Matthew: Well, now we know who made the systems in weather control as seen in the Pajama Sam game. Oh, good. It's, it's Richard Sumner's company. Because in both of these two environments, this complicated system has a big red key right in the middle that you're never, ever supposed to touch.

Why do we even have that key? 

[00:33:07] Ian: Oh, no. Not the red button. The, like I, I have never before seen Chekhov's emergency key switch- ... but it's right there. and the fears come alive because, well, honestly, the machine itself is big and slightly noisy, and it's slow. 

[00:33:27] Matthew: Yeah. 

[00:33:27] Ian: Honestly, it's really slow because you've got to put in full syntax questions.

[00:33:32] Matthew: Which is, it, the fact that it r- it understands them, in 1957, that's kind of impressive, where you can type in, you know, "What is the gross national product of such and such a country between these years, not counting tire production?" And it can give you an answer. 

[00:33:48] Ian: Yeah. Um, and the lady who is sent to run the thing is honestly just mean.

[00:33:56] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:33:58] Ian: She is intentionally extremely mean, uh, and is very much of the, "I'm going to replace all of the rest of you." 

And then everyone gets their paychecks with a pink slip in it. 

[00:34:07] Matthew: Right. 

[00:34:08] Ian: So they're all getting fired. 

[00:34:08] Matthew: Everybody's been laid off.

[00:34:10] Ian: But the fact that everyone's been laid off is really bothersome to Richard. And- He's really upset by this ... 

[00:34:18] Matthew: and yet even before he learns that, when all the ladies in the reference department have gotten their pink slips, they start packing their stuff up and they tell the lady from Richard's lab, "Uh, the room's all yours.

Have fun. We're gonna go pack up." Yeah. And they just gotta sit back and watch while she tries to deal with this, and she is unable to keep up with the, the pace and the demand and, and get the questions right and get the spelling right and get the, the correct answers. 

[00:34:44] Ian: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:44] Matthew: Uh, but they're not gonna help because it's, they've just been fired.

[00:34:47] Ian: And the machine isn't giving good answers itself. It doesn't understand full context, so it's giving reference to, reviews of a film when someone was asking about the production of a film. It is giving, incorrect associations between two pieces of information. It's giving just, it's on page this of this book.

And nothing more. None- None of the actual info from that page, just the, "Oh, it's over there." 

[00:35:15] Matthew: And Bunny, as soon as she hears that what the computer has provided is from March 10th, uh, 1943 or whatever, she immediately knows, well, you're not gonna get your answer there. That's gonna be the review of this movie that came out that was about the topic.

[00:35:31] Ian: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:31] Matthew: So she can even critique the answers when she's not there to read them. 

Somebody on the phone needed information about , the island of Corfu. And the- Yes ... operator lady, uh, entered it as curfew.

So they got the poem Curfew Must Not Ring Tonight. 

[00:35:47] Ian: Oh, yes. That's it. 

[00:35:49] Matthew: Which, which Bunny knows by heart like she knows half of, of English language poetry. 

[00:35:54] Ian: Nice little bookend there of her getting into the format and the f- and the, the structure of a poem early on- ... and not being able to leave it. 

[00:36:02] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:36:02] Ian: And here she is, like, watching the machine just absolutely lose its mind.

It's like, well, it's gone through 17 pages, and that's one stanza of 80, so have fun. It's never, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be done until this is- 

[00:36:16] Matthew: Yeah ... 

[00:36:17] Ian: complete. 

[00:36:18] Matthew: and the lady running the, the machine, she is, she is upset because she, she wants everything to be neat and tidy and predictable, and that's not what this job is.

This job is dealing with questions from human beings at high speed who need the answers now, and who are not going to talk you through how to spell everything. They're expecting you to know what this job is. And meanwhile, like you were saying, they've all gotten pink slips. The guy we've seen before, the young man who delivers the mail in, within the building, he's gotten a pink slips, and they're wondering did Richard come up with a machine that could deliver mail?

And Richard doesn't understand, "Why did you all get pink slips?" 

[00:36:58] Ian: Yeah, and he's like, "Oh, well why are you so upset that we're including this machine? I was never your enemy." And it's like, "Well, we all got fired 'cause of you." "What do you mean? This is supposed to be a device to help you." 

[00:37:12] Matthew: Meanwhile, Richard gets an envelope from the mail guy, and he's got a pink slip, and he's not even an employee.

[00:37:18] Ian: I don't even work here. What's going on? 

[00:37:20] Matthew: And he, he gets a call from the network president. The network president has gotten a pink slip. 

[00:37:25] Ian: And, and the answer is that they're merging with another company, which is why they never explained that they were installing this thing. Like, why has this project been hush-hush?

It's not 'cause we're firing you. It's 'cause we can't let any information slip for the, because of the merger. And the reason now everyone's gotten pink slips is that the computer they installed down in payroll- ... has gone on the fritz- ... and fired everyone in the building. Which is such an interesting thing of the watching a computer getting overwhelmed in the background and hearing through the same, the same stories of the rest of the building we've been getting all the other times.

The only other computer we know in the place has gone awry. It implies this entirely separate movie about the payroll department degrading over time until the machine goes crazy.

[00:38:21] Matthew: So apparently they're not all fired. 

[00:38:25] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:38:26] Matthew: And we do get kind of a pat ending in a couple of ways. One is- Yeah ... well, we see at the very beginning this, this movie was made with the kind cooperation of the International Business Machines Corporation. 

[00:38:41] Ian: Yep. 

[00:38:42] Matthew: So you know it's not going to be an anti-technology movie in the end.

[00:38:47] Ian: No. In the end, Bunning is okay with the idea of they'll use EMARAC as their database system, and they'll all work with it. 

[00:38:55] Matthew: And they get a question, conveniently they get a question on the phone, uh, "What is the weight of the Earth?" And they're think- that would take so long to research and calculate. "Well, okay, I'll try EMARAC."

And EMARAC works- 

[00:39:12] Ian: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:13] Matthew: to provide this answer. So yeah, they have to give us that kind of, uh, detente then between the computer and the reference ladies.

[00:39:22] Ian: Yeah. So there, it, it, it has a very pat ending and it has a very funny moment here at the end where the machine full of this reference information has been fed two extra cards. 

[00:39:35] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:39:35] Ian: Because Mike comes in, "Oh, the merger's a success. I'm going to be, you know, very big and important." 

[00:39:41] Matthew: Yeah, I'm very- 

[00:39:41] Ian: Okay, Bunny, pack-

promoted to 

[00:39:42] Matthew: vice president. 

[00:39:43] Ian: I'm, okay, now that I have to leave to the West Coast, you know, Bunny, pack up your entire apartment. You're coming with me. You're gonna be marrying me, right? And Sumner's like, "No, no, no, no. Take a look at the computer over here." Should Bunny marry Mike? And r- s- the machine says no.

Well, should Bunny marry Richard? The machine says no. Well, they can be wrong sometimes, and there's this fun little like, aw, them at the end. Oh, they're gonna- Yeah ... have a nice time together. 

[00:40:15] Matthew: And it's interesting. Even at the end, Bunny was still ready to go off with Mike, partly because she- Yeah ... had never really thought about any other alternative.

And now, , Richard is presenting her with an alternative , and she does find him so much more interesting, and she is so much more- Yes ... on his level and vice versa. but she very wisely, she resists a bit because you, you already have a love. It's, it's Emmy. This is always gonna , come first for you.

I know that. And he's in- he's insisting, "No, I absolutely don't care about that compared to you. Anything could happen, you know? I, I, machine could, could blow up right now and I wouldn't, wouldn't care because I'm with you." She starts fiddling with the little big red knob that she knows is going to, uh, dismantle the computer.

[00:41:03] Ian: But, uh, a- and, and the, the, the final scene of the movie is the big LED light, the big light panel- ... with all of the... It's not LEDs. It's the big square bulbs lighting up with, THE END as, , Bunny and- Richard finally have a kiss,

So yeah, it's very pat in that sense, but it's an interesting film because it's all about that, that tension and that concern of the digital tool coming in and replacing the people.

As a backdrop to this, you know, do you go with the person who you've always been pining for or the person who matches you in the mind- Mm ... romance story. Kinda two films in the same suit.

Oh, did you recognize that light panel from somewhere else we might have seen? 

[00:41:46] Matthew: Oh, that specific panel? No, I didn't. 

[00:41:48] Ian: Yeah. That piece got reused in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. 

[00:41:53] Matthew: Oh, no kidding. That works. Yeah.

[00:41:57] Ian: Yeah, the massive dis- display of moving square lights has been used in the 61 and the TV, , shows of , Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. 

[00:42:05] Matthew: Very cool. 

[00:42:07] Ian: Yeah

[00:42:07] Matthew: Well, I think we might be headed towards our final questions soon. 

[00:42:11] Ian: I think so 

[00:42:14] Matthew: So listeners, stay tuned for our discussion of our recommendations around this movie and what we might wanna see, , done with this, , in the future. But in the meantime, if you are enjoying the Inter-Millennium Media Project, please go to immproject.com.

That's where you will find all of our back episodes, more than 200, plus bonuses as of now. And, , you can also find ways to contact us at our contact page. You can find us on, , email and on BlueSky and on Mastodon and on our Discord, and you can even send us honest to goodness real live mail, , through the US Postal Service at our PO box.

[00:42:54] Ian: Yes. 

[00:42:54] Matthew: And you'll also find ways to support the, the podcast. You can go to our shop if you like things like T-shirts and coffee mugs and notebooks and other fun things, both our, our podcast brand, but also, jokes about some of the things we've talked about over the years like, uh, Die Hard and Space 1999 and The Prisoner.

[00:43:15] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:43:16] Matthew: And you can also go to our Patreon where, uh, starting at $3 a month you get access to bonus audio content, and if you join at the Movie Club level, you'll periodically get a mystery DVD in the mail. 

[00:43:28] Ian: Yeah. You can experience fun and unexpected media the same way I do, and I, I, I wholeheartedly think it's a great idea.

[00:43:38] Matthew: So all of that is at immproject.com. And Ian, where can people find you? 

[00:43:44] Ian: I can be found most places as ItemCrafting, be that ItemCrafting.com or as ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. I stream most every Thursday that I can, uh, playing games, making props, and having a good time. Come on over, talk media with me. I'm always happy to hear you.

[00:44:01] Matthew: It's interesting to see you, um, kind of working on something, and then see the printer start assembling that while you go off to play a game. 

[00:44:08] Ian: Oh, absolutely. Honestly, I'm kinda t- I... It'd be really fun to build that light panel. I'm really tempted to like wire up- Oh

a bunch of LEDs from like a Harbor Freight or something, see what I can make. 

[00:44:19] Matthew: Oh, that would be fun. Like a, a Mac mini enclosure that's a scale model of, uh, EMARAC. 

[00:44:26] Ian: Oh, absolutely. That, that would, that would work quite well. It's figuring out h- how to make little tiny model tape drives, though. 

[00:44:34] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:44:36] Ian: Ah.

Dad, where can people find you? 

[00:44:38] Matthew: Well, you can find me most everywhere as ByMatthewPorter, so that's on BlueSky and Mastodon and YouTube. Uh, but you can find it all on bymatthewporter.com, which will have links to all of those. And also, bymatthewporter.com will have information and links about my book, Questions for the Dead, which you can get at, uh, your local bookstore.

See if they'll order a paperback- And, uh, you can also order it online in ebook or paperback from your favorite internet bookseller 

[00:45:05] Ian: it's a fun story. Thank you. I, I absolutely am enjoyed my reread, so

[00:45:16] Matthew: So final questions. 

[00:45:19] Ian: Final questions. 

[00:45:20] Matthew: It's a movie, so screen or no screen? 

[00:45:24] Ian: Ah. I'm gonna say screen, especially for a couple of things. One, I think this is a wonderfully acted movie. There are films where, like, I'm, I've been not certain of some of the performances. I like the performances in this film. And honestly, I th- I feel like there are actors and actresses who have taken reference from this.

I swear I have seen, uh, Mrs. Columbo herself, Kate Mulgrew- ... like reference the style that, uh, Hepburn is using in this. I think, like, Warehouse 13 and such, she definitely has that same tone. 

[00:46:00] Matthew: Yes. 

[00:46:02] Ian: But just in general, this is a bunch of actors at their peak doing good work, and I think it's completely good to see in that sense.

It's also, as we talked about, a constantly returningly r- 

[00:46:16] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:46:16] Ian: important film in terms of content. So I think it's absolutely a good film to re-watch. 

[00:46:23] Matthew: I agree. It's, I think it's a screen. It's, it continues to be relevant in different ways. You're right about the performances. They are all stylized and heightened in certain ways as fits this movie, but they're also all in sync and it all works together so well.

They're all at the same level and all with the same style. So I, uh, I definitely recommend screening this. 

[00:46:45] Ian: Yeah. 

[00:46:46] Matthew: And that leads to our second question, which is revive, reboot, or rest in peace? 

[00:46:54] Ian: That's tricky. But honestly, right now we're... I'm... Usually we make our m- our, um, episodes universally watchable, or, you know, you can re-listen to any of our episodes whenever.

I'm gonna point out right now it is 2026, and I honestly feel like we've got a tiny window where a remake of Desk Set is completely doable. 

[00:47:18] Matthew: Huh. 

[00:47:19] Ian: I'd say you got two years at most. Yeah. If you get past 2028, you might have missed the window. But you tell me you're doing a remake of Desk Set, but doing it in a different...

Like, you could do it either at the time, like set it when this one was set, or do a modern remake where a department's being replaced by a machine. Maybe get rid of the cut-and-dry pat ending. 

[00:47:45] Matthew: Hmm. 

[00:47:46] Ian: But there's something about the same strains and tensions we're describing existing right now, and you could have a really, really interesting play with that.

[00:47:58] Matthew: Yeah, that would be interesting. I think you could do that. You would, you could update it without having to change all that much when you get down to it. 

[00:48:06] Ian: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:07] Matthew: Some of the issues about, you know, the way Bunny is just waiting around for Mike and things like that are very stuck in attitudes of the time, but you can update those as appropriate.

There are still people who spend too much of their time waiting for the wrong person. 

[00:48:21] Ian: Absolutely. 

[00:48:22] Matthew: And, uh, it also, another thing that would be interesting to see is it would be fun to know that there's kind of a revival of the stage version of this at repertory companies and summer stock- Oh ... theaters around the country.

That would be fun. You could do it as a period piece set in the late '50s, and yet still acknowledge in the way it's produced the fact that this stuff is all relevant today. 

[00:48:48] Ian: Oh, yeah. A stage performance of this could be really good.

I'm really not sure which one I'd prefer. Yeah. Those are both so good

But yeah, , I feel like the original is always going to be poignant, but there's an issue of the fact that there's plenty of people who won't even touch a movie from '57. 

[00:49:06] Matthew: That is true. That is true. 

[00:49:07] Ian: There's... And that's, that's not a problem. The, for some people, older films are completely accessible because, you know, a movie is a movie, and the time is the time.

For others, some of the way they film, shoot, you know, the, some of the shots they use, some of the lighting, some of the speed at which they present- ... and the style they go about- 

[00:49:29] Matthew: Yeah ... 

[00:49:30] Ian: just becomes a barrier to entry. I never fault remakes for trying to make things accessible. Right. I get, I, I have problems with remakes that think they are replacements, but making a story accessible is always a fine reason to remake something, and I think a accessible remake of , Desk Set is a reasonable thing if someone wanted to make it.

I just think that if you do it at the wrong time- ... you miss the zeitgeist, and you have to wait for the next cycle- 

[00:50:01] Matthew: Right ... 

[00:50:01] Ian: before it becomes poignant again. 

[00:50:03] Matthew: Which will no doubt come around, but you're right about that. And your, your point about remakes is good. Uh, I would add that i- in addition, I, I don't see the point of remakes that change very, very little.

If you're essentially trying to redo the first movie the way the first movie was done- Mm ... we already have that movie. Mm. If you're gonna do a remake, make it interesting in some new way. So this- Yeah ... and this has o- opportunities for that. But, but regardless- Oh, yes ... of whether it gets remakes or, or, or reboots or things, uh, the fact that we have these performances in this movie from '57 is terrific.

[00:50:39] Ian: Mm-hmm. You make this... Yeah, you do a version right now where this is a fact-checking department getting replaced with an AI system. 

[00:50:50] Matthew: Yep. 

[00:50:51] Ian: And you've got a, you've got a delightfully awkward terror- 

[00:50:54] Matthew: Yes ... 

[00:50:55] Ian: that runs as a brilliant tension-filled backdrop for a modern dating romance between office workers. 

[00:51:05] Matthew: And one of the key points at the end could be that this fact-checking department is more vital than it ever was because there's a lot of, quote-unquote, "facts" from AI that need to be checked.

[00:51:16] Ian: Exactly. So yeah. This, that's a, that's a ringing, a, a ringing endorsement of opportunity here for Desk Set. 

[00:51:28] Matthew: Well, this was fun. It was another little, uh, a little addition to Christmas in July, but it was also, um, a weirdly timely movie from 1957. It- 

[00:51:37] Ian: weirdly timely. I was, I was so interested and excited when you mentioned that this would be our next, because I'm like, "Oh.

Oh, that's gonna be a fun one." 

[00:51:49] Matthew: And now as we record this, I think curfew is about to ring. 

[00:51:53] Ian: Oh, probably. 

[00:51:54] Matthew: So I think it might be time for us to sign off. And, uh, and thank you very much, listeners, for joining us. We hope you had fun, and we hope you'll return with us in a couple of weeks for more tales of media from the 20th century.

[00:52:07] Ian: And in the meantime, go find something new to watch