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00:00:00 Speaker: Oh, welcome back everyone to Merge Conflict, your weekly developer podcast, talking about all things in the world of development of software and things that you develop software on. I'm one of your host, James Monson Magno. And with me as always, the one, the only, the illustrious Frank Kruger. How's it going, buddy? Oh, illustrious. You come up with a new adjective every week and I am here for it. I like adjectives, I don't think I'm, uh, illustrative yet, but, um, I do know about the, uh, developing hardware thing. That's the word I'm going to fill in for you. The thing that you put the software on, we generally call it hardware, don't get to do that much anymore, but you can also buy hardware instead of developing it. That's an option too. I hear, I hear the kids tell me so word on the street. Well, we'll talk a little bit about that because there are some Apple announcements and some more Apple announcements coming, I think. Nine nine. I want to say I looked on Apple dot com today and I believe there's phone drops coming. So we'll see. And I think we have some some rumored things on here too. So we'll see. The rumor of rumors, which is very exciting. Yeah. I mean, we don't have to talk, you know, for two hours about Max and which Max we're not gonna buy. But I think it's always fun to talk a little bit of hardware once in a while. Um, I think, I think both of us are kind of out of the loop on the purchasing department, but still make my living from Apple. So still paying attention to the hardware. And I don't know, I feel like the rumors this year might be true. I think I say that every year, but I feel like some of the rumors might actually happen. So yeah, let's dive into those. We'll dive into it. Well, before we do, I'll give a few quick updates. I did want to address some feedback from last week's episode. Um, we had a question at the end that I think it was last week's episode where we were looking through the YouTube and someone had commented about the captions, um, being not so great on YouTube. And I wanted to talk through a little bit of the process and we'll get into our lightning topics because this is episode, oh my God, who does? Five forty five thousand five hundred forty five. Five five thirty five thirty five thirty. Uh, so I want to talk through it a little bit. And the problem that was here. So I appreciate them bringing to our attention. So how the podcast works is as of today, we record and we record on Zencaster for a long time. Zencaster, uh, allows us to record video, audio. Um, and at the end it goes through a processing part that stitches our videos together. It also transcribes the video. So when it transcribes the video, uh, I blindly accept the transcription. I don't read it obviously, but I upload it to fireside, which is our podcast host. So when you go to merge conflict dot fm, every podcast episode has a transcript with it. So you could follow along. It's relatively accurate. I have browsed through theirs before now. Um, in that transcript is like Timecodes and I'll say James or Frank, because our advertising zencaster have that on it. And then what I do is I primarily have taken that, uh, text file and I've done a quick conversion just like through a command line app that I had built just to convert it to SRT, which are the, um, basically transcription, uh, format that you would upload to YouTube. Uh, now in this regard, it is taking just whatever format Zencaster puts it in and dumps it into this. So it does its best guess effort. Now in this regard, some of the problems that they were saying is like it has people's names or like maybe too big, maybe like, you know, they're not really aligning. So they might fill the screen because right now I'm going on a monologue and I believe in the transcription, it'll say like zero one to blah, blah, blah. And it's this big chunk. Oh, so, so that's a problem. So I spent last week, I on one of my applications that I use called caption stack caption stack dot app. I think I may have talked about it before, but it takes any file format and it converts it to another file format for captions. So if you have a yeah, it's the best kind of app. Yeah. So if you have an SRT, it'll convert it to a V or a txt or a Json file or whatever file. Now, one of the best parts of this is that because I built it, I can improve it. So I had it analyze all of our different podcast text files and the STS that have normally been generated and that what it would generate to from TXT to SRT. And what I had to do is implement safe, um, warning, like quick fixes. So what this will do now is it will automatically break apart long lines. It'll split things automatically. It will remove in our case, I leave our names, but our names like get nicely formatted basically into it. So not on different lines. It'll be really nice inside of it. So it'll break it all down. So it should look very nice. So last week's episode I did that with and this week's episode I will have done that with. So check that out on YouTube. We would appreciate it. So hopefully we can do it. And that's the power of AI just for the greater good. Yeah. You know, it's funny with YouTube because, um, Google has its own transcription service. Like if you just upload a video and I'm always curious which one is the higher quality and all of that. But I do appreciate that you kind of have the control here. So you could probably put some emojis in there. I doubt they'll render it, but, uh, it's nice that you can just go into your own tool and split up those long bits of text. Um, I, I'll be honest, I haven't watched us with the captions on. Uh, so that's my fault too. I'm going to take take the hit there. I'm a bad beta tester of our own podcast, but, uh, good fix, James. Thank you. Yeah. And I think to your point, I do believe like there is the user defined captions and then YouTube still captions it so you could always flip to theirs between the two. I'm like ninety nine percent sure if you're like, oh wow, ours is bad, but because we upload ours, ours are then there by default. So. Right. Um, give it a, give it a look sees. But anyways, that's not one of our topics. Let's get into our first topic. Frank Kruger, what you got for us. Oh, this is open source software. So we're not going directly into hardware. Uh, this just caught my eye because I'm always interested when you, I, when you, I, the twelfth new way to write a windows user interface for the windows. And I'm especially into it because I'm hoping to release a new version of ie circa that is built for when UI for windows using all the native controls and all that, and when UI for probably the last year, have been trying to become a proper kind of open source first project, um, up till up to about a year ago, what we would get are kind of drops of wind UI from Microsoft. It was developed internally, and then they would kind of do source code drops. So you could always see the source code. You kind of had access to it, but they're trying to switch to an open source first kind of perspective where, well, a community members can contribute to it, but also development's just happening in the open. And that's the big announcement that just happened is development is actually happening in the open now. So we're not just getting drops from internal development at Microsoft. Now, the actual team is using GitHub and the whole process is there and transparent. I forget they broke out like a plan. Of all the phases for turning it into a full open source project, it's tricky. I've worked on the windows team. I know how tricky it is. There's little, little fingers into the actual windows code that they don't want to open source and that kind of stuff. So it's always kind of tricky with these things. But as far as I know, they've kind of solved all those big problems, all those interface issues. And at least Microsoft employees are now working through GitHub. And I think in the next next phase is when they'll actually be taking like community contributions. But first, they just want to get their own, um, GitHub process all worked out, but I thought it was kind of a big deal because, um, people have been saying when you eyes open source for a while, but it hasn't really been the source has been available, but it hasn't been open source using the open source development methodology. Um, but now it is, this is a big step and it's a big, big, big step for getting to where they want to be. And it just caught my eye and I was excited and wanted to mention it on the pod here. Yeah, there was basically four phases that Beth Pan, who's awesome, who outlined with the team, which was first was increased Mir frequency. So after the windows app SDK release, they began more frequent mirroring of internal commits to GitHub to increase transparency. Part three was third party devs build locally, so external devs will be able to clone and build the repo locally, and then third party devs contribute and run tests. And then there was the GitHub as center of gravity. So it's the primary place. And yes, uh, Harshit did an update there of, of everything ready. So it was on there and then Beth Pan and everyone else was on there. So it was complete. So three days ago, four days ago when you're listening. Very good. They got done by the end of August, which is super rad. You know, the windows app SDK is up there, you know, um, our good friend Morton is now over working on stuff. So very excited about that. And, you know, I do think this is a pretty big step. I saw someone tweet like, oh, when's Swift UI going open source? Right. And I think that was a pretty big move. Like when, you know, the, the Xamarin team, like open source Xamarin Forms and Don Net Maui and the contributions and open it up. It really is, uh, is really fantastic to, to see that work happen out in the wild. And we sort of continue to see more and more of this, uh, center of gravity. Obviously being open source has its pros and also some of its cons of mass amounts of issues and pull requests and triage and this and that. But, you know, if you look at like the latest sort of processing from dot net, Maui, for example, the skyrocket here is good because now more than ever, there are these automated gates that can kind of be triaged by AI to get us into a much better place. Uh, and if anything, you're now able to even triage those issues even faster. I had someone today open on tiny clips, a CV issue and, uh, about some JavaScript library that I was using. It was actually a dependency node down deep of V and I was like, oh, this seems like a scam. You know, when someone's like, oh, pinned to this version, it wasn't a pull request. It was just an issue. So I did some deep research with copilot and I was like, this looks like a scam. I don't know, let me know. And it was like, oh no, actually, this is like real, it's actually a dependency of this. You're on one point two eight, you know, it's blah, blah, blah. You should be on one point three oh. And I was like, cool, like, let's update this puppy and do this thing. I was like, that's really cool. So I thought that was really, really neat. And yeah, I think this is, this is awesome to see, you know, WPF, um, WPF is like open source too, right? I don't think so. I mean, WPF is the one I worked on. Um, WPF, right? Okay. So they just kind of put the code out there, but they're not. No one's working on WPF now. It's not like a, yeah, there's new new releases all the time on WPF. Really crazy. Okay, sorry, I take that back. People are. Yeah, they add it. Yeah. Like, uh, WPF and dot net ten. Um, so what's new in WP and like and stuff in there? So yeah, one there. Yeah. There was tons of performance improvements. They added. Uh, fluent design to WPF. So all the fluent styles, uh, they had a high contrast mode implementation. They did a bunch of improvements for clipboard changes. Um, you know, they did a bunch of unit test bug fixing, bitmap optimization, localization improvements. They added a message box API. So that was improved. They, they, uh, Morton introduced grid enhancements, uh, a whole bunch of. So, I mean, I'm not saying it's like this ginormous list of things, but, you know, there's things happening that you're getting, uh, by, by being over there. But yeah, it's chilling. It's happening. Well, they all have their tendrils into the actual windows code, so it's always kind of tricky. And that's what I was kind of saying before is the windows team is the windows team. They're kind of doing their own thing. And then these application development interfaces on top of windows. It's honestly always a little bit confusing. Um, uh, which ones are the, you know, if I want to maintain an app for the next five or ten years, which one do I invest in and all that? And you get mixed stuff. So I feel like when you eyes the one to invest in, or at least that's where I'm putting my money down. Let's hope, let's hope there's not like one UI for coming out and they break everything. But, uh, I think the, um, the open source, I'm really excited about the, the scary part is like, yeah, does this mean we're going to get a bunch of breaking changes or any of that? But I think overall the transparency is good because, um, people mentioned in a lot of these threads that like, you know, there's some long standing bugs that haven't been addressed. And when you don't have a transparent system, you're like, well, what's happening with these bugs? You don't know until the next drop. Now you can say, hey, there's an outstanding bug. There's six PR's talking about that bug. Let's get these puppies merged and figure out what's actually blocking those kinds of fixes. So it's crazier going the open source model. But in the end, I think it's just going to increase the quality of the software. I think so. I'm super excited about it. And like to that point on, when you, I, I had a mission statement a while ago, which was me rewriting all of my windows desktop apps in Winuae three. If I was focusing on building a desktop app, for example, tiny clips or my stream timer, I have many multi-platform applications which I use dot net Maui for. So I have my skiing app, I have my cadence application, I have this new, um, you know, financial application that I'm launching pretty soon here. And those are all built with dot net Maui. So I'm trying to pick like the best tool, especially when there's deep hooks into windows or into Mac, things like that under the hood. Not that I couldn't build it with Maui, but there. But I will say this, the when you I CLI and all of the custom agent work and the new developer Clis for the Microsoft Store. All these other things that we've talked about recently are spectacular. The automation, the agent loop on them, they are incredible. And what's beautiful about it is that it's really handling a lot of that infrastructure to make your app look really, really good out of the box. I went through two things we'll talk about. The first one here is I actually went through and I've updated and released two brand new one UI three applications in the last week, both tiny clips onto the Microsoft Store and my stream timer. I rewrote from the ground up fully backwards compatible with my old from my old Xamarin Forms application that did a full migration step by step. I had a model, uh, crank through that, uh, crazy loop and it basically one shotted that I was really loving. It's really gorgeous. It's really a thousand times better than it than it, than it used to be, because it's using the modern design paradigms, right? I hadn't updated that app in like five, six years. Um, now the cool part about this is not only is it super agent first when you get the CLI and the stuff, but I mentioned the pipeline integration into the Microsoft Store. Now this is really unique. I went through some intra hell, if you will, some entry ID hell, which is like a D. So okay, there was a few things. I figured it out. I'm glad that I did. I've had a, I've had a Microsoft partner account like you have had, which is how you upload your apps to the Windows or Microsoft Store for like, I think it was two thousand and seven or something like that. It was like when I was two thousand eight. So like when I was first uploading Windows Phone seven applications, I've had this account forever tied to my personal account. You know, I haven't really checked in on it. I have apps to actually pull in pretty decent money, you know, like, you know, fifteen, twenty bucks every month or so, you know, for, for my stream timer. and I hadn't really updated or done anything. Now there's a few bits and pieces of information that you actually need, and I am happy to report that once you have a proper entry ID like an on Microsoft dot com. So like a Kruger systems dot Microsoft dot com registered or ty one of your entry IDs to it. It's super simple. So you do have to click around in a few places, but basically you need like five pieces of data, kind of similar when you're doing your provisioning profile crap, you know, and GitHub actions, but you need like your seller ID, you need your application identifier. Um, and then you need, uh, you need, I think you're like entry ID account ID, there's, there's a few ID. Yeah. And then there is specifically, you need to create like an entra application, basically assigning author authority, um, like app inventor ID inside the Azure portal. Now, what's really neat about this is I hadn't created an entry ID for my LLC before, so I created one. And inside the portal of the partner account, I just say create. Or you can link an existing entry ID. So I created a new one put in my business information. You know, it was it was very simplistic. I didn't have to verify duns or anything like that. It was just like, it's good. So very, very great. And I might have done that in the past. Who knows? Um, now once I did that inside of the partner center, under your account, there is a button that is create new enter app. And from the partner center, it creates the app and creates the client secret and um, public, public, private key that you put into your GitHub actions. So you don't even have to launch Azure to get and create all that is very streamlined. And you do have to, of course, first upload your first app, bundle your MSI X now. Once you do that, everything else can be uploaded and streamlined and automatically submitted to. And you can obviously pick, if you set up your flow to an internal flight or to the public app store. So I have tiny clips going from tagging a release to being certified and in the App Store in under ten minutes. It's faster than Winget. It's the fastest thing. It just because their certification pipeline is super streamlined and fast, it just works out of the box, which is super cool. Now my pipeline also tests and it spins up like a windows environment and tests and install and does all this stuff because good steward so that that actual pipeline takes ten minutes. And then I'm so impressed on how fast I went from uploading information and getting it there. I'll say the portal center, not the most beautiful thing. Neither is Google Play. Neither is the Apple. They're all not. There's you get a click a thousand places, but once you do and you get it set up. I'm like, okay. And I got into a flow and I was shipping things like nonstop. And now it actually wants me to once it's encouraging me to actually ship more stuff to the, to the, to the Microsoft Store. And I was like, wow, it's right there, which is really cool. Yeah, actually, um, I have to check if I have one of those on Microsoft. I know I have them for my personal account, I'll have to double check the business account and all that stuff. But I recently had to resurrect my Windows Store account also because I had missed a checkbox or something a few months ago when there was some new requirement and they disabled my account, so I had to go through the whole thing. I did have to do the done stuff all over again. I'm like, guys, I've been publishing since like windows eight. Why are you making me do all this again? I'm still me, I haven't changed. Hi. I'm Frank. Um, so I had to resurrect a lot of that stuff. So I hope I, I actually have a lot of those IDs already set up. I'm curious what it's going to be like trying to do this for an older app that's been on the store forever versus a new app the same. Okay. So, so that's the thing is I, so I updated my stream timer, which is that old one. And it was, I thought it was going to be chaos because I've done that before on Google Play. And it was kind of a nightmare because I had all these keys and all this. But no, it was super streamlined. It was really, really good. Now, of course, once you find all the different identifiers you need and you can copy them and put them in a text file. But once they were there, I was like, wow, this is like super streamlined. And it just updated it. It just updated, I flighted it, updated it and released it. And I'll say there's something beautiful about, you know, not having, you know, to have a range in which my graphics can be like, you know, on Apple, it's like your images must be this exact iPhone six point five with which, by the way, um, I was using the new mobile dev canvas from John Dick, and I just went into copilot app and I was like, hey, go do this and then make a beautiful screenshot, these resolutions. And it did the thing where it like took the screenshot, like through the app, like really good and it seeded fake data. And then it did like a whole device frame and then it put it in a thing and it was like, really? I was like, just do it right. It was, it was awesome. Good use of tokens. And then I was like, oh, I want to do this on all my apps. So it looked, it look really good for the fire app that I'm doing. Um, but it, it updated, uh, seamless. And, you know, I just, I just had to update assets and things, but that was mostly on me to take new screenshots and it was like, boom, good to go. Okay. I'm excited and terrified. You're making it sound really good and easy, but expect a phone call in a week or two when it's my turn to do this. Once I once I get approved on Apple, I'm going to be working on that windows version next. So, um, I, I hope you're right. It sounds, it sounds great. I can't wait to get on this bandwagon, but I'm still nervous. Yeah, but I'll tell you. Tiny clips. It's in the Microsoft Store. It's a real app. It's a real app now. My stream timer also being updated, um, which we'll talk about here in a little bit when we get to the max of why I'm also updating in other places. Very fun that's there. But the second thing I'll say is, well, I have had pretty good success so far. I did get it's been a while, Frank, but I got a little app rejection from Apple. Oh, classic. Doesn't it feel good? Aren't you like I'm back home? Oh, you know what? I didn't want to release that app and make money. I want to sit here and see what a random person on the internet thinks about my app that they spent two minutes looking at instead of figuring out, um, is it going to be something wrong with your keywords? Uh, they don't like your icon. It could just be that the app has functionality that only Apple apps are allowed to have. You know, that's my favorite one where they're just like, no, no, you're too useful. We're the only ones allowed to make useful apps. Uh, any of those? Was that your app rejection? So I have recently I was updating some older apps. I have recently had some, um, just updates, actually just normal updates that they needed me to like update some terms of service, make sure something was linked or something in the app. I feel like that's okay. You I didn't clearly read something quick fix. This was a fun one. Uh, this was two point one early. That's an early one. Two. That's two. That's that's just they got past one, which was, I think installed the app far in your, um, agreement, I'm sure. One two dot two two dot two dot one I didn't even get to, I barely got to two two dot one is an interesting one. It was called it's called app completeness. App completeness. Uh, boy, this could mean anything. I love Apple's verbiage. Um, you still got me. Tell me more. Uh, this one said apx completeness. Please install your application on a up to date iPhone. Record the entire application from start to finish that a normal user would do. Showing off all functionality. Any account creation updates. App you know. Deletion of information, in-app purchases, anything the user would do, any connectivity, anything like that. And then please resubmit it so we can see what your app does. What? What? Yeah. I've never had this ever. Never, never. I've never seen this. That's their whole job. That's their job. That's that's so I've had one with my cadence. The very first one, which was, okay, I don't have a Bluetooth sensor. I don't know how to test your app. Please upload demo it. Right. Sure. Make sense? I was like, okay. And this one was like, show us. You tell us what's in your app. You demo, you demo the app for me. What? I swear, I swear to God, that's what it is. Yeah. So they didn't reject you for anything. They their rejection is they didn't feel like doing their job. That's the rejection. Okay. Like Sunday night. Click click click in the queue. Click. I was like, I never want to release a new app ever again. I was like, rude. Well, so here's the thing is, I was like, well, I think they're gonna reject me again because I took a video of the simulator and it says specifically on an up to date and up to an up to date iPhone physical, I, it does say physical iPhone. So I'm going to see if they if they approve or reject my, I'll, I'll do it on my actual phone, just the in-app purchases. Like I hate doing this stupid, um, uh, fake store accounts, you know, all the test accounts we have, I have like Sally, I can never remember Sally's password. Yeah, yeah. How am I supposed to know? I test that stuff once two years ago and I just always hope it works. Oh, okay. Um. Boy. Wait, so. So one more time. Is this a new app or an update? There's a new app. New app? Yeah. Darn if they do this for an update. I'm going to be very upset. Yeah, I can't imagine, I can't imagine, I mean, unless you really haven't updated it for like a long time. I mean, that being said, I did recently to, to their credit, I did update my stream timer. So this will kind of like lead in a little bit to our next topic a little bit. But yeah, I hope that they don't do this to updates. And they recently didn't for me. So Frank. Okay. I am pleased to report that just like I updated my stream timer for windows, I also updated it for Mac. And the reason I had to update it for Mac because we're about to talk about new Macs, is that, uh, our good little friend Rosetta is going away. Yeah. This is this is scary. This is really scary. The good news is I haven't been able to boot my Intel Mac for a really long time. Yeah. The bad news is I have a lot of customers still using Intel Macs. Like, um, yeah, um, I don't, I don't have great analytics the way I do for iOS for Mac. Uh, so I'm mostly kind of going by vibes here, but given how old the operating system is of people buying my apps, like there's a lot of Intel Macs still out there and this, this, okay, I get it. Apple, I get it. We're trying to decrease the testing surface and all of that. But Rosetta is so good that like, it's just a little bit frustrating, isn't it? That I don't know that we're just losing support. Like, what are all my customers that have Intel Macs going to get nothing? At least, you know, knowing me, I'm going to stay on old Xcode versions as long as I possibly can, but, um, it's rough out there if you have an Intel Mac. Um, all your favorite apps, you're just going to stop probably getting updates within a few days. It'll probably take a couple of years for it to trickle down. Um, because like you can keep compiling with old Xcode for quite a while. But yeah, crazy. I mean, I, I already, I already get it. Um, I think everyone's getting it. Just random notifications just being like, hey, this app you use every day, not going to be able to use it for a while. Why Apple? Yeah, it works fine. It's fine. It works fine. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I think it's a great point and I'm not sure we'd have to go research because. Well, yes, you'll be able to still compile against older Xcode. This can be like limiting, right? It's a big issue, but at some point they'll stop accepting it. Like at some point, I don't know when it is. They will stop accepting x86 apps. And I thought that they did put a time stamp at one or two years from this cut off, which is this newest release, but I'm not sure. Now, obviously for most users, if so, in my case, my application was only x86 or x64, whatever it is, right? So everything's gravy right now. I can't update it really, because I don't have that old source code anymore. Um, well it's somewhere, but I, I'd have to go back lineage of the, this is the old Xamarin forms Mac that was never officially out of preview like a thing, I don't know, I could, I could do it, I'm sure, but miles just rewrite it. Yeah, so I did. But the thing in my issue is that I have a bunch of users that are like, hey bro, like I'm about to get the new version of Mac and I can't run your app because I'm on a modern app or modern Mac. Fair enough. So I did go through the process and I've rewritten this app fully. It's a, it's a Swift SwiftUI app and it's a win UI app. So SwiftUI win UI all the things And I fully backwards compatible. It's beautiful. Okay. Um, which one is more beautiful? Oh, boy. Gotta pick between your kids, huh? Which one did you use? Fable. With which one do you use Kimmy K three with? You know, that's going to tell you that's true. Uh, I will say that I think I mean, I'm a big I'm a big windows user. I don't really like the latest versions of Mac that much, but, uh, they're similar, but I think maybe I like the windows one a little bit better. I think it just looks, it looks a little bit nicer, uh, especially with all the, the acrylic and all that stuff. I don't know, like a really good looking window. I have like looks really good. So, um, which is great. Same with, um, you bring up a good point. I was defending all the people who still have Intel Macs, but it's a good point. It's a good point. A lot of those people bought Intel apps but are buying new computers and they're like, I still want to use your app. So thanks, Apple. Uh, all the devs out there have to do the updates And you know, if a dev is making money on the app, then they can go through the effort and get it ported to AMD or ARM. What am I saying? Arm ported over to ARM. It's just the apps that you know the devs kind of abandoned, but I'm still using. Those are the ones I'm so I'm scared for the people who have Intel Macs and I'm afraid for the apps I love using that will just never be updated because the dev went off to who knows where and they're just not updating their apps anymore. Oh, it seems a little unnecessary. I don't know. Well, and I feel like, yeah, like you said, Rosetta is so, so great. And like, even on windows, the arm layer there is like really good. However, like if you're not like a sandboxed app, like a lot of the apps are like crazy drivers and this and that audio. And it's like, it just doesn't work. It's just like, no. Now they are updating to one UI three, like they are on the path, but they're taking their time. I think almost every single one of their apps is now over, which is really great, or at least in beta for ARM on windows, which is great because that's what I have, but it's kind of like the same thing. I'm like, come on. So I'm, I'm mad at like this whole architecture conversion. Everyone's kind of mad at everyone. Everyone's got to do some work, so let's do it. But I'll tell you this much, they did let me update this app that hasn't been updated in like five years. And it was a seamless process and it's out onto the App store. I went through Testflight. I even changed the icon color to really distinguish. It went from blue to purple. So people are like, whoa, big change on there. And, and it all worked. App. Um, if they bought it once or I'm sorry, it's, that's the one with the, uh, pro subscription, right? So it's a freemium kind of, it's a free app with a pro yes, free app. And then it also has in-app subscriptions and it has one time pro upgrading stuff on it. So I made all of like, all those are backwards compatible with Storekit two. that all worked. I had gone through that with my cadence on it and that all worked fine. So same app identifier, same thing, both for windows and for Mac. It all worked. I was terrified, I was like, oh no, am I not gonna be able to do this? I got a new app identifier. Bingo, bingo. But it all worked. People are upgrading. I did put on a seven day rollout, so we'll see by next week what happens, uh, what it looks like. But yeah, we're on there. So it's all happening and that's all shipped seamlessly. Burns. Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to ship an app for the last month and been failing at it, so I'm a little jealous of you. You actually, uh, you actually ship things. James, you must be more meetings than me. I don't know where you're finding all this shipping time. I'm shipping stuff. I think that all the ci, CI, CD stuff that you really like had got on me on, like, I really kind of figured out. Now, that being said, when all my certificates expire in about six to twelve months, then I don't know what I'm going to do anymore. Um, I really need to figure that out. But I do think that the Maui Sherpa stuff is really going to help me, because that's all good. I'll also say the one nicety, my favorite nicety of um, if you do build a Swift app. So there's two things you're building a Maui app. Sherpa is going to help you because it does integration with with GitHub. It'll sync your keys so you can create new provisioning profiles every year. Very nice. If you go through that route, the nicest thing is if you are building a Swift app, the Xcode cloud build, yeah, handles everything for you, does everything, refreshes everything, uploads a test flight. It's a beautiful thing. It's beautiful. It's just like, great, except when it's GitHub hook, um, just decides to unhook. Uh, so there's, there's weird buggy stuff over there. And then you have to uninstall the apple thing, go back into Xcode, tell it to revalidate. It's like, that's a terrible experience. It's twenty twenty six and we haven't figured out off and hooked yet. Yeah, that is a bad that is a subpar experience. I will I will agree with you there. So it's there. Well it's good. Yeah. Um, you know, like you said, I am on lots of meetings and I do burn those credits, but actually talking about the reasons of all these new devices, we got some new hardware. Time to throw your Mac mini away, Frank. Just throw it straight. Straight in the garbage. Uh, absolutely no part of it is worth any money anymore. Just kidding. All its ram is like gold. Man, I can, I can convert this thing. I got sixty four gigs. That's at least worth five billion dollars. Just pry it out of there. Just walk out any old street corner and be like, I got Ram. Do you got Ram? I got Ram, uh, yes, James. Uh, Apple in a sly move. I don't know why, but they just didn't want to do it, like during iPhone time or something. Just decided to release some honestly, pretty cool new computers. Uh, we'll get into the prices and all that. The prices are a little high, but the computers, I think the computers are good. It's been six months since we got a new chip, so we got a new chip. We got the M6. How good is the M6? Who knows? It's at least one better than the M5. Exactly. It's not as good as the M4 ultra or the M5 ultra, and I'm not sure it's even as good as the M5 Max, but it's got a six on it. So someday, I hope maybe the Wikipedia article or something gets updated describing why Apple decides to increase the number sometimes and not the number other times. I'm really curious what the actual changes are, but, um, yeah, there's a new Mac mini out, which is our favorite machines, at least my favorite machine. I think you still tolerate yours. And yes, there are new Mac Studios out. Um, the Mac studio, I do not think got the M6. I think it's just the mini that got the M6. Um, but they did a nice upgrade on it. One of the um, problems with the baseline mini was that I don't think you could get above sixteen GB of RAM. Now I think you can get up to thirty two GB of RAM if you're rich. If you had some gold lying around, you can actually get the more RAM in the base model. By the way, the base model price went up also because it's twenty twenty six, everything's going up well. Also, the M4 base model price did go up a few months ago. Yeah. Like our baseline did go up several hundred dollars. So if we were buying our same machines today, they would go up. Yeah. I think everything went up like thirty percent across the board in some cases, like fifty percent like the numbers are quite big actually. Well, so I was just talking to Craig about this today, um, because we were talking about these. Now I specifically have the and you both, we have the same machine, but you have a four terabyte. I have a two terabyte. So we both have the M five Pro and I believe we. I don't remember if there was an increase or not in the processing. CPUs and GPUs. But if there were, then we definitely got that. Yeah, I think it was like two hundred bucks. And then we got sixty four gigs of RAM, and then you got four terabytes for eight four. But it's still it's still feeling generous. Like I still haven't filled it somehow magically. Thank goodness. I, I have two and I still have not filled it. That is correct. I do have an external that I put my source code on, so that's helpful. So I paid two thousand eight hundred dollars for mine. And I believe that you paid maybe thirty one or thirty two. If I bought the same exact configuration with the M5 Pro chip, it would be either thirty five or thirty seven based on if we did pick different CPUs or GPUs, I'm not one hundred percent sure that's with the Pro because the M6 is there, but there is no M6 Pro, right? That's what I kind of thought. Yeah. So I find that really fascinating because when they launched the Mac mini, it was M4 and M4 Pro and you had that pick. So now you're M6 and M5 Pro, and it feels like a generation behind because it is. But there is no M6 Pro. It doesn't exist on any machine out there today. So I it's an interesting conundrum that we we kind of have put ourselves into. But this is the first time that the Mac mini did get a bump, but I will say eight hundred to nine hundred dollars. I'm not positive here, man. I'm pretty sure mine went up more because like I was trying to price mine out with the sixty four GB of RAM. Well, I think it's also the hard drive because it's not just RAM prices that went up solid state prices. You're hard. Your hard drive is an extra one thousand dollars from two to four dollars. Yeah. So the best I could spec out my current machine with the current hardware is four thousand five hundred dollars. And, you know, I remember feeling really guilty when I bought my machine for, I forget three thousand one hundred or three thousand two hundred. Now I'd be like, At least it was less than four grand. Yeah. Oh, it's a tough world out there, man. I hate new computer prices. I'm just not buying a computer for the next five years. That's what I'm doing. James. You know what? I'm good. Uh, no new computers needed over here, that's for sure. Um, they're cool computers, but. Yeah, you said it's interesting. I find it very awkward that you have an M6, but then the powerful ones are m5's, and then the really powerful ones. The Ultra's like an M4 ultra is still faster than all these things. Now, what they did increase through a few of these is the memory speed in a lot of cases. So you actually for for four thousand five hundred dollars I would be getting a faster machine. The CPUs are faster, the memory bus is faster. It's a better machine. Definitely one hundred percent. But I'm not maxing out my machine. I'm looking at like the little activity graph right now. it's at like ten percent, so I'm definitely not maxing any of that stuff out. I'm not training neural networks on my machine. I love training neural networks. There is a neural network training over there right now on my thirty ninety. This room is ten or twenty degrees warmer than it ought to be, because that computer is burning through three hundred and fifty watts of power to make wonderful neural networks. I am not using my dev machine for that, and neither should you. I'm a big proponent of local AI and all that stuff, but you really don't want to run that stuff on your dev machine because then your mouse starts getting laggy and all sorts of weird things start getting laggy when you're like maxing out your GPU on your dev machine. Um, local inference to me just means local to my house, not the actual machine that I'm on. And so I don't think you really want to upgrade the minis very far. Now the studio has a different advantage and we can talk about that. But I think the minis, you still want to upgrade a little bit, but you really don't need to max those puppies out. Yeah, I agree, I think that I think you make a great distinguishing point here, because I've never had real success on my machines here in which, uh, running local models, maybe little tiny ones, like they're fine, but I'm not coding with them. Right? I did a video with like Quinn or something like that, and it was fine. But I'm not just, I'm not just running the models. I'm also running all the agents. I'm running all the builds and compilations and it's running playwright and it's running like dev flow and it's doing all this work. It just has a hard time. My machines catching up. If I am in the sort of multi-agent flow, even on a single agent, you're doing a lot. You're compiling, you're doing all these these different things, you're running tests and all these things are happening in parallel now more than ever. So I think at build, for example, when there were the new devices, the the Surface Laptop Ultra and then the what was it? The, uh oh, you're going to have to help me here. I can't keep up with product names. Uh, I'm looking it up because I know what the internal name was. And I don't want to say, uh, was it the ultra super, super duper ultra max pro plus? No, I'm looking on Mega ultra. We announced. The surface RTX spark dev box. That one spark. Yeah. The spark the RTX spark dev box. That machine is made specifically for running models locally. That being said, I'm also like, it'd be great to just have one of those sitting over there and connect to, to a bunch of all of my other machines to it and let that thing crank. And, you know, you've seen those little spark boxes, things like that. So that puppy is fantastic for that. And I think that's going to be the real power. I do think eventually we'll get to this point, but eventually is not today. Right. And I do think to your point here that there is a difference between me on my Mac mini or MacBook air M1, trying to run local models versus this RTX dev box and a Mac studio, which is like the, you know, not a server rack, but it's like a next level, you know, machine that's literally built to run these things at scale. And then you would have enough if you were to spec it out, right? The problem is I don't spec it out, right. I'm not going in. And I'm like, you know what I really want to do is I want to spec this out with two hundred and fifty six gigs of RAM and terabytes and just, you know, spend fifteen thousand dollars like I could, but I don't actually know if the trade off there is enough. For example, would it be worth me running a local Quin model on this machine versus just buying a bunch of soul or fable or whatever, or even open router credits, right? Yeah. To do the same amount of work. We've talked about this before. However, to your point, I could probably on a studio or a dev box in general. So let's talk about the Mac studio. We skipped the Mac Studio because the Mac Studio hadn't been upgraded when we got the Mac Mini, correct? Yeah, I think they did it like six months after we got ours. And then you feel a little hem and hawing, but they weren't that huge of an upgrade at the time. Basically just a physically larger computer to I like how tiny my little mini is. It's mini. It's so cute. It's so tiny. It's literally mini and it's super powerful. It's super cute. Yeah, I love it. I have zero complaints about my computer. But that said, the studio has always looked good because it's bigger and faster and maybe has better cooling. This one, this one gets warm, sometimes warm. Yeah. So Apple did something kind of insane. And this is their proper big AI play, except there's a lot of stars and asterisks I want to get to, but what they have now in these machines is pretty fast memory. I think it's something I forget what the number is. It's one point seven. Is it like terabytes a second or something of bandwidth or something like that? It's fast. That is fast memory. So you are paying a lot of money for that fast memory. But what we've all learned in the neural network space is, especially with these large models, it's not just the compute. You need a lot of memory and you need that memory to be fast. And even if I went out to buy like an RTX three thousand ninety right now, that's going to be a five thousand dollars video card and it's going to have a very limited amount of RAM in it. Fine. So I can go buy, um, a more, um, uh, what do I want to say? Non-consumer card. I could get like the R six thousand or something, pay ten grand and now it's got a little more memory, but, you know, still not a lot. Now it's got like ninety six gigs of RAM. That's still not, you know, in a world of Tera parameter models, that's still not very big. That's still considered a small model size these days. So Apple's big play here is right now you can go to their website and buy a two hundred and fifty six gigabyte model. Now that's still not enough to run one of the like mainstream big models. The mainstream big models these days are like Tera parameters. And if you say you need at least two bytes for each one of those, then that's that's four terabytes of memory. You need to run like one of these big ones. If it's one, if it's one Tera parameters, then it's two terabytes of memory you need. And that's not including the context. And that's not talking about whether the, the, the compute unit can even keep up with that memory. But Apple is releasing this computer that allows you into what's called the mid-level. So mine can only run the tiny and the small tiny models. This computer can run the actual mid-level models, and there's a pretty big jump up from the tiny models to the mids. You're not running sole on this. You're not running K3 on this. Yeah. Um, but Apple's definitely making a play. This is like a good shot across the bow to Nvidia because they're in the price range of Nvidia. That said so. So they have the memory five hundred and twelve will be released eventually. Two fifty six at the moment. But. Five twelve that is a big play. You are putting real models on that thing at that point. That's big. Mhm. It's a twenty thousand dollars computer. But guess what? That's how much those video cards cost. Video. We still call them video cards. Isn't that cute? That's how much these gaming cards still cost in order to run these models. The difference is you're getting a heck a lot more RAM. So there might actually be shops out there. If you're a small business and you want to run local, then you might actually start considering these things. If you actually have private sensitive data and you are not comfortable sharing that with us. Sam, then yep, go do this. Why not? You can make excellent business cases for why this is still a good idea. The downside being realistic is apples compute hardware still isn't quite there. Um, I don't want to make up too many numbers in my head, but you still get a good thirty percent fifty percent performance gain by Cuda, the, the, the cores that are on the modern um machines. Eight o'clock, eight o'clock o'clock by the way, don't everyone was wondering. It's eight o'clock. Terrifying. Um, but the Cuda cores are still so much faster, um, than these M5 processors, but Apple's got the memory. It's just a matter of getting the M6 or M7 on there, and maybe they'll actually be more competitive with Nvidia. Anyway, I think it's just a pretty serious, um play. This is not a device for normal human beings. But if you're not a normal human being you might consider it. I agree, yeah. It's not a device for me. But you know, I'm also not a business that's, you know, I don't even have this amount of cash in my business account. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I had enough to buy the Mac mini and that was about it. So I got a big mosquito in here now. Oh, now you're on the hunt. It's right above my desk. Oh, gosh. And I should say also like these midsize I got it are pretty great, James, because I, I think I've been on the podcast on the record of saying even the tiny models, I'm able to get stuff done. Everyone applaud. James was able to kill a defenseless little bug. I got it, I mean, defenseless my behind. All right, let's talk about the rumors really quick before we get to the nine nine event. Um, it's kind of crazy. Yeah. I mean, I do listen to a lot of podcasts and a lot of things, and everyone's just talking about how expensive everything is. And it's, I think when this is the reality check for me, which is two years, you know, in like, here's the, here's the price jump. And that is significant, right? I'm talking, I mean, I think if I was to say, okay, listen, my little Mac mini here is going up from the it was already expensive at two thousand eight hundred but going up to three thousand. Yeah. Okay, cool. I get it, blah blah, blah, but going up to almost a thousand dollars more eight hundred. That's a lot, man. That's, that's quite a bit. And it makes me and I'm still on my M1 Mac, MacBook air and I crank on it. Now I'm doing different things on it, obviously, than I would on my, my, my, my, my, my windows laptop here. That's like jammed full of memory and ram and all these things that I spec out of my Mac mini, but I think still cooks and it's going to town and I still really like it. So these chips are really good. So I don't think there's any need to upgrade in my opinion. Um, but I do think to your point, the M5 ultra chips and the five twelve is a real contender in the space. I'm interested to see what that looks like going forward. And I do think that there is these new contenders in the premium space. And my fear, my one fear, Frank, that Apple and maybe everybody else. Um, and we talk about this in the video game realm too, is that where is that entry point? Right. Um, and you know, when the Mac mini came out, it was a banger five point nine nine getting all this stuff in there. And you know, now obviously we're starting at nine hundred, which is still a great deal, but you know, that's a quite big jump in two years, hundred dollars a year, and then Mac Neo, MacBook neo, which to me, I wouldn't I would not purchase it, but I could understand why people would purchase it. But this is the entry. Still a good computer. Computer. Good computer. Yeah. Yeah, but it's going to jump. I bet it will jump again. Uh, in general, uh, for it. I mean, I would say, okay, the the, the neo. Right. For me, you know, how am I going to get my extra RAM? You're not going to get your extra RAM. So I think that that's kind of the, the bits and pieces on it that are there, but I don't know. So the question is, if we're in this new premium realm, what else premium could Apple possibly release, Frank. What else could they possibly do for just throwing money at Apple? If they're just like, if they're like, hey, we can't just always increase prices eventually we should probably maybe give our customers something new, you know, to maybe justify all these price increases. James, I got a wild pitch for you. What about this idea of this thing that we wanted five, ten years ago? What if we make another rumor that maybe it will be released again? What if Apple actually releases a new form, a new form factor for the phone. Their flagship product. What if this is finally the year that Apple finally changes the form factor of the phone and we get a new iPhone with not one screen, not two screens? What about three screens? No, the second and third screen happened to be the same screen, but they're on two different planes. What if this is the year we finally get the foldable iPhone and James? Not just that, but what if we make it really expensive to just because it's twenty twenty six and we need to make everything expensive? You could because foldable phones in general are very expensive. The Samsung ones are very pricey in general, so it's completely doable. I don't even want my current phone. So you know this is natural. I think Mkbhd was really hinting on this and others is you look at the iPhone air, which is a natural precursor to can you smoosh two iPhone airs together and then throw a little screen on the other side? And my assumption is that's what it's going to probably look like is the errors. And then somehow trim down with those, those, you know, on both sides. You obviously now have more room. You actually have more room if they were clever, which I would love is I would actually love one hinge to be one side, to be a lot thinner in a way to, to close because you could obviously keep the iPhone and then just put a screen on the other side. I do think that what a lot of the device manufacturers do is they put a bunch more stuff in it, right? They want more, more batteries, more other things. They spread it out. So you get two on the same size. But actually, you know, the Westworld triple, triple fold, you know, Westworld, that's the trifold. I do think that that and there are really tiny, itty bitty screens. I think that that would be kind of fascinating to see. So I would love a, a really thin, really thin display that kind of almost rolls out. That is just the, the hinge on it. That kind of covers it. That would be neato in my opinion. Yeah, I've gone back and forth with this thing in my head because number one, I don't believe it because we've been wanting a fold and there's been rumors of a fold forever now. So I mostly, I just don't want to get my hopes up. And then when I heard everyone's projected price, people are saying at least two grand for this thing. You know, it's funny because when I was first thinking about it, I'm like, you know, I might be willing to spend a thousand dollars on it because that's what a pro phone costs these days. But, you know, I just bought a new pro phone. What am I going to do with the phone? Maybe I'll finally do a trade. And I've never done a trade in before. I've yet to drop this one in an ocean. I really don't know what to do. I certainly don't need two iPhones anymore. That's just not the world we live in. I used to love buying iPhones, but now it's just I just don't need it. Um, and then I'm like, do I really want this thing? And the side I finally came down on is I just don't use my iPad very much anymore. But one of my favorite iPads has always been the mini, and I've liked having a big screen when I need a big screen. So I. I'm personally on the side of. If I ignored the price, would I want this thing? And the answer is an unequivocal yes, I want this form factor. I've been asking for a new form factor for a phone for a long time now. It's not that I need a large screen, but it's that I would. I would use it. I would be happy to use a large screen on my phone, and I'm hoping it would fit in the pocket a little better because it's not going to be a giant phone. Well, it's a giant phone, but folded up, I'd be totally willing to go there. Um, so it's really just been the price in my head and I'm like, well, I can finally do a trade in or something like that. So I think I'm actually starting to hype myself up. I'm like, I really don't want to spend two thousand dollars or God knows what the pro version will cost, or if they have any kind of little upgrade on it. And I know it still won't sit flat because it's Apple and they refuse to put a normal lens on these things, and we can't have flat devices anymore. But I think I would still spend the money on it, because I have been that desperate for a new form factor for the phone, and I'm excited for it, even though I'm depressed, because I know it's going to be so much money, but I'm so excited for it. So those are my mixed feelings. You have mixed feelings. You're just like, nope, not for me. Not for me. No. I mean, Heather gets the new phones and then I get her old phone. So it would really be, you know, is it interesting to Heather? And the answer is like, probably not. You know what I mean? And for her, it'd be like, whatever the camera is the best. And I would imagine that the camera would not be the best on this one. No, it won't be. And making the business decision either. Normally I can say something like, well, I need it for testing. We all know what's going to happen, but the big side, if they do this is just going to be the iPad version of your app. The, the large, um, size, size class of the app. So I probably don't need the actual phone to test your app. Apple will handle the transition from small to big and all that kind of stuff. Um, yeah. I'm still. Yeah. And, and it would work really well because if you were to test your application on like an iPad mini, for example, that would probably be put it in a pretty similar realm. So yeah, that'd be good. The guess is it's going to be about a seven inch screen. So for all the devs out there, maybe you can justify it with your business. There you go. Let's talk about one last thing that we're going to wrap up. Second of this podcast, Before Midnight is other rumors. And I'm actually pretty interested about this one because I did get my first matter enabled thermostat. Bravo. Uh, I've been I don't know what that means yet, but it's there. Uh, yeah, I've been singing the praises of matter just because from a small developer like myself, it's actually finally an easy way for me to write my own devices and get them attached to all the big home, whatever the heck out there. The home dinguses out there, so I'm a big fan of matter. Uh, what I think you're talking about is the rumored Apple TV is going to come out and we're all assuming, because all this is just rumors that it'll actually have thread support. Now remember, thread is just one of the new many wireless protocols for talking matter to all your devices. So if you don't have any thread devices, it really doesn't mean anything to you. But if you are looking to overhaul your IoT stuff, IoT. Yeah. Um, if you're looking to overhaul any of that or you're going to buy new stuff, then I think you'd definitely be interested in it. I'm interested in the Apple TV, new Apple TV for all different reasons. But I think that that's what you were alluding to is you're, you're, you're interested in getting into this thread business. Is that right? I'm interested in that, um, in, in general, because I'm like entering this gateway after our podcast episode and thinking about it now, I think that's a long way off. So if this happens down the road, that's fine. And wi fi matter, I think is totally fine. Um, I'm actually the rumor that I see here and maybe you have different ones. The one that I'm most interested in is actually HDMI pass through support. Potentially. Everyone wants it. We'll see. Um, yeah. Does this thing become like a real media center kind of device? Um, remember when the Xbox did this? They don't do that. I was they don't do it anymore. But the Xbox One. Yeah. Did it. So, so people don't know. It basically allows you to simplify your home theater setup, right? So you can connect multiple devices into the Apple TV and then it would pipe it through. And one of the really fascinating things about this is that if it's pass through, it can also, instead of you having to switch HDMI, right? It would, it would ingest that. And then it can like you could see your Xbox or you could see your PlayStation, or you could see HDMI device inside the Apple TV, like inside of it. And then, you know, you know, you'd have a similar environment, kind of like on a TV, like when you're on a TV and you're switching through inputs, it's there. But you would have one thing. And in fact, a device that does this, which is a TV, but also does this is a Roku TV. So let me tell you a little bit interesting. And then I'll go into, I don't know if you're interested about anything else, but I'm sure it's something else. But the one thing that Roku TV does, which we do have a really tiny one, a Roku TV, uh, it, it basically is running Roku OS and it is acting as a device, a Roku inside the TV with HDMI passthrough. So for example, when I go into it, it is capturing those inputs and then putting it inside of the Roku itself instead of physically switching some input device. I'm not leaving Roku to switch to the other HDMI, It's inside of it, it's passing through, and that's what a receiver does. Basically, you can plug all your stuff in and it'll pass it through and you get one cable out. Bingo bango and then you toggle on the receiver. So ideally it cleans up there. What are you most interested in if there is an Apple TV update? Okay. I just want to address HDMI thing. I still don't understand the full use case for it, but I know everyone wants it, so I am. I'm the weirdo that just doesn't fully get it. I want everyone wants everyone wants one cable up to their TV, one cable. Okay, one cable. Not all the cables. That's what we want. Because in general, you know, that's what a receiver does. Yeah. When you have a receiver, you plug everything into the receiver. It processes everything, usually audio in the case of an audio receiver and then it pipes everything out. Now pre this before HDMI passthrough, you'd have to pipe different audio into it and all this other stuff. But HDMI you can go in and then it passes the signal through to it. so you can toggle between it on the receiver and you have one out. Cable, basically a bunch of in and an out. It's like a splitter in a way. But it can also capture and process and see the signal too, which is more than just a. More than just a splitter, it can see the signal and pass through the signal on one cable. So. Yeah, it's nice. I want it because I'm still working on my RCA Videodisc project and in my RCA Videodisc project, I decided maybe a home PC isn't the best, um, home theater thing to put next to my TV. Maybe as an app developer, I should just write an Apple TV app that does all my processing. So I have a second generation Apple TV 4K. That's a lot of words. And I tried putting my cool RCA upsampling neural network on it, and I got a whopping five frames a second. James yeah. Turns out, um, what? I don't even know how old that device is. A many year old device could not run it, and it's been so there is a third generation out there, but even the third generation, I believe it's like four years old. So I think mine is running an A12 Bionic. So there's actually a neural engine on it. It's just slow. And then there's been an update to it. I forget which chip that one's running. So the rumor is that they're actually going to put a proper, um, Siri AI chip on the new Apple TV so that it can run smart Siri, which makes sense. Um, but that's exactly what I need so that I can do video upscaling, um, dynamically all through the device as just, um, an Apple TV app. And I want to, for all the reasons you're talking about HDMI passthrough of it's just one less device, you know, if, if it's just an app that I have to go to to watch my video discs, great, I like that. Um, the downside is I'm going to probably have to spend Ideally only two hundred dollars for the new one. But given these RAM prices, who knows what the new Apple TV will cost? We'll see. Yeah, we'll find out. I don't know if they'll do it on night out or if they'll just keep it to that event. My assumption, I don't know rumor mill and then I'll leave out of this. But is there is that rumor sort of HomePod with a display too. So I believe if they were going to do an Apple TV, they wouldn't do it on the nine point nine event. That would be silly. They should. They usually only do iPhones. I wonder if they do another event for the fall pre Black Friday pre holiday buying season. October maybe where they do a home where they talk about HomeKit updates. They talk about HomePod. They talk about these other things and reintroduce a bunch of home products to smart home. So we'll see what happens there. Yeah. Okay. You're telling me I have to be patient, I will try. I think so, um we'll see. All right. That's gonna do it for this week's merge conflicts. So until next time, I'm James Monson Magno and I'm Frank Kruger. Thanks for watching and listening. Peace.