Nadine Dyer (00:00) Welcome back sisters, ladies, friends. Welcome to Linking Arms podcast. We are resurrecting our podcast and I am so excited. My name is Nadine Dyer. I am the hostess of this podcast and today I am joined by one of my mentors and somebody I admire and look up to so much, Ms. Mary Warner. Mary is the coach of coaches. Mary has been coaching for over 30 years and has helped hundreds of women take back their life. That is what she has helped me do. And today we're going to talk about mindset. So Mary, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome. Tell us a little bit more about what we're going to talk about today with mindset. Mary (00:42) Thank you, Nadine. I love being here. And mindset is like a secret weapon. So if you change your mindset, you can change anything in your life. I'm here really to just talk about how I came from being a timid, scared, invisible young woman to somebody who's the coach of coaches. It didn't happen overnight, but it wouldn't have happened without mindset changes. Nadine Dyer (01:07) That's great. And it's interesting because I looked up the definition of mindset and here's what it says. "Mindset is a set of beliefs, attitudes, and mental frameworks that shape how an individual interprets and responds to life's situations. It influences thoughts; it influences actions; it influences outcomes, acting as the lens through which we view challenges, opportunities, and relationships." And I love that definition. Mary (01:40) I love it too, yeah. And it is the lens that we view everything. And we start out being programmed. We're programmed by the adults in our lives, by the leaders in our lives. And we are trying to fit in to wherever, follow the instructions. And so what I learned growing up—very much in the age of children should be seen and not heard—Don't ask for anything. Don't ever ask for anything. My mom had been brought up in an orphanage, had a very traumatic childhood. And the way she kept us safe was by teaching us to be afraid, to be afraid of other people, to be afraid to speak up, to be afraid to take a risk. Don't do any of that. To stay safe, you pretty much stay invisible and stay quiet. And so I learned to be quiet, learned to never ask for anything, I learned to not take any risks. You can kind of see this is just going in a bad direction. So I grew up, I was the good girl, I did all the straight A students and all the things you're supposed to do to keep everybody happy. Then I got married. Well, when you're married, it doesn't work very well to not say what you want, not say what you need, never ask for anything, never express your opinions if they're different from someone else's. Never engage in conflict because that's risky. So you don't want to do that. And so I was married 43 years. The first few were good and then the middle 20 were not so good. My husband was an alcoholic and I tried to get through that by being nice, by being better, by being logical. Logic doesn't work with addiction. And so I ended up, well, and we had three daughters who were not afraid, were not timid, were not, so I was like overwhelmed by my whole family. I didn't have a clue. All I could do was go to work. That was my escape. So I ended up working like 50 hours a week because that was easier than dealing with out of control adolescent daughters and an alcoholic husband. I didn't even know the word boundaries. Boundaries was not something— I was here to please everybody else. That was my role in life, make everybody happy, make sure everybody had what they needed. And it didn't matter if that was something they should have supplied. If they didn't, then I felt like I should. So I was the world's caretaker. And it didn't serve me. And honestly, if you look at the whole thing, it didn't serve anyone else in my family. As long as I was a good enabler, my husband could keep drinking. As long as I was a people pleaser, my daughters could still demand what they wanted every day. And I might argue about it for a while, but they would still end up getting what they wanted. And I would still end up working 50 hours a week, helping with homework, allowing things that I wasn't at all sure should be allowed because I really didn't know. I had never been given any freedom as a teenager. So I didn't really know. I knew that not having any wasn't the right way, but I didn't have any way to measure what was healthy letting go and or what was unhealthy holding on. I just didn't know. So there were lots of problems between my husband and I, between my girls and I, and all the while all I could think was I'm being as nice as I can. I'm trying to do everything everybody wants me to do. I'm trying really hard to be what they want me to be. And what they wanted me to be wasn't good for them or for me. And it wasn't who God created me to be. So things kept getting worse. My daughters did things like run away from home, move out at 17 into an apartment with people I didn't know. One thing after another, after another. Every phone call was a crisis. Every phone call was like, my gosh, I know immediately when soon as the phone rings, there's something I'm gonna have to take care of. There's somebody not in school when they're supposed to be, there's somebody doing, I don't know, it was just a lot. And...And at work, I was the one they called Mary who knows everything because Mary had to answer every question. Mary had to research everything. Mary had to be the one that knew all the answers. Not because they said that, but because I taught them that that's what I do. Nadine Dyer (06:20) Mm-hmm. Mary (06:22) I taught them that I'll handle anything, anytime. I'll come in early, I'll work late, I'll take on whatever somebody else didn't finish. Some of you out there probably have experienced some of this, whether at work or at home. And when you get really into that and you've taught all these people that you're super mom, super woman, super everything, and you run out of steam and nobody understands why suddenly all you can do is sit in the corner and cry or whatever it is your way to show up. Nadine Dyer (06:54) What was your way to show up? Mary (06:55) Oh goodness. Well, part of it was disappearing into work. Nadine Dyer (07:01) Okay, yep. Mary (07:01) Yeah, I read a lot. I still read a lot to escape into novels, somebody else's life, you know, not doing anything, avoiding conflict. Nadine Dyer (07:05) Yeah. So escape. Mary (07:15) I tried church, you know, I thought, maybe church will help. And my girls would tell me even today, if you talk to them, they'll say, well, you use church as punishment. If things got really bad, then you made us go to church. I'm like, well, that's not, that was not my intent, but I was just looking for help. I was just looking for help. Nadine Dyer (07:26) Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is you were taught and you grew up with the mindset of fear, the mindset of hiding, the mindset of pleasing others and almost like not knowing who you are and what you need and being about helping everybody else. Mary (07:56) Yes, and never ever making mistakes. Nadine Dyer (07:59) And never making mistakes. So then you grow up, you start a family, and then it kind of shows up in these teenagers that are acting out. And can you tell me a little bit about how it showed up in your marriage? Mary (08:11) You know, it's an honest thing to say that for about 10 years we barely spoke to each other. I think neither one of us left because neither one of us knew what else to do, you know. So it showed up everywhere showed up in we never agreed on anything about what was the right way to discipline the girls, what were the right rules to have. We didn't, we didn't agree on anything. I took over— I was like a single parent because if he was drinking, then, I mean— and it took a long time for me to even realize he's drinking like from 8 in the morning all day and he's driving the kids around after school. This is maybe not a responsible parenting thing. . .So, and just a lot of disconnect. Nadine Dyer (09:01) Yeah. And I'm imagining this, right? But then I'm imagining the mindset of my voice doesn't matter. So then you just let it happen, right? Mary (09:11) I didn't have a voice. I didn't have a voice. I even remember saying at one time after trying to express something, I'm talking out loud and nobody hears me. I wonder if that means I'm not really talking. I just think I am, you know? Nadine Dyer (09:26) Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Mary (09:30) It was that deep and it was like, I didn't belong. I didn't belong in the middle of my own family. Nadine Dyer (09:39) Wow. So did that feel sad? Did that feel like, were you depressed? Were you angry? Were you just lonely and shut out? Mary (09:48) I was incredibly lonely. I was scared, scared to stay there because I thought nobody could live like this forever. But also scared to make any changes because if I change, everybody's going to leave me. Everybody's going to be mad at me. You know, it's not going to work. I don't know how to do this. Mary (10:10) And it was, I was like dying inside. I literally was dying inside. Nadine Dyer (10:16) Yeah, I bet many women can relate to either all or part of what you're sharing. I know I can. And I've walked through some similar things. Mine were different. My mindset things were different. But I can relate to loneliness. I can relate to dying inside. I can relate to losing myself. So thank you for sharing that part of you. I want to go with your story. And today really it's about Mary's mindset story, right? Like why this matters. So I love hearing your personal story and I'm so grateful for your willingness and your vulnerability and sharing it. I want to know when the shift started happening and what did that look like and what are some different mindsets that you started adopting, adapting, whatever the word is. Mary (11:01) You know, I just got to the point where it's like, I'm sure God didn't intend for me to live this way. And he didn't intend for my girls to be living this way. So I didn't have a clue. You've got to remember, this was like 35 years ago. So at that time, it was like, church would say, just pray about it. But, you know, I'm not sure about going to a psychologist or a therapist. And the therapist would say, you know, this is what you need, this is the only thing you need, and nobody would talk about going to Al-Anon or 12-Step groups because, you know, you just didn't use that A word, so it was hard to find help. So I remember, Al-Anon was one of the beginning things, but again, I didn't want to go there by myself. I was too timid. So at my doctor's office, there was a nurse who had found out that her husband was an alcoholic. And so she took me to my first meetings. I started looking for— Nadine Dyer (12:00) Okay. And can you just tell us a little bit more about Al-Anon for those who don't know what that is? Mary (12:06) Al-Anon was wonderful and I would be the first one to tell you everybody should go to Al-Anon even if you have to say you have an alcoholic in your life and you don't because that was really where I began to to be able to like separate myself from everybody else's pain because I just soaked up everybody's pain and I wanted to fix it all and and I owned it every bit of it. And none of them had a chance to deal with their own stuff. So Al-Anon taught me things like other people should do the things that they can or should do for themselves. If you're stepping in, taking on somebody else's consequences and responsibilities, you're not helping them, you're harming them. Nadine Dyer (12:50) Hmm. Mary (12:51) So I found a counselor that knew about addiction and co-dependency and that was just luck because I didn't know what I was looking for. So I did that and there were other counselors along the way. At church, the very first self-help book I had was The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. There were some concepts in there that I had never heard and I thought, wait a minute, I think I need this. Nadine Dyer (12:59) Hmm. Yeah, that's good. That's great. Mary (13:19) And then the next book that had huge impact was the original Boundaries book, which I still use to teach from. Nadine Dyer (13:25) Hmm. Can I pause you just for a minute? I just want to point something out that I think is really, I'm noticing in your story. It seems like when things started shifting for you was when you admitted you needed help. And then you started doing something about it. Al-Anon, counselor, reading. Mary (13:46) Exactly. Cause there were no people in my life at that point that thought anything was unusual in my life. Nadine Dyer (13:58) No, yeah. Mary (13:59) Tim drank at home. He wasn't out at the bars. He wasn't out causing trouble. Nobody else saw it, just me. And they all thought, you know, he's got a steady job. He's home every night. You got nothing to complain about. I mean, they even actually said that to me. Again, you know, none of them would even want to know about Al-Anon, much less go to it. And therapists, I mean, you don't go to therapists. And if you do, you certainly don't tell anybody. And things have changed so much. Nadine Dyer (14:05) They sure have, thank goodness. Mary (14:30) So, you know, I had to, I was desperate enough. It's like, you know, we want pleasure or we want to avoid pain and you put up with something because it's familiar, but when it's too painful anymore to put up with, then you're out there looking for what in the world can I do that's different. Nadine Dyer (14:46) Okay, okay, yeah. So can I, I almost want to like fast forward and go, can we talk about your mindset now? Can we talk about the difference with what it used to be to what it is now and how differently you show up in your life? Mary (14:59) I can tell you that people who have known me then and now will tell you that you wouldn't recognize me as the same person. Literally not the same person. I didn't. Well, if you think back to when I showed up at the very first Momentum, I found a table off to the side. I didn't talk to anybody. So that was like eight years ago. And I was at least at a point where once I got comfortable, I could talk to people. But I still showed up as an observer. I still showed up cautiously, timidly. Mary (15:33) I'm not as likely to do that now, maybe in a big group where I don't know anybody, but otherwise I'm like, well, here I am and what you see is what you get. Partly because I've been able to learn who I am and also to have my own mindset, not be a reflection of everybody else's, not try to be what anybody else wants to be, but to be, to know what I think, to do research on things I'm not sure about, to speak up and ask questions. And not be afraid that somebody's gonna think that's a stupid question, or maybe I should just be quiet. I'm so often now the first to speak up in a group instead of the last. And I have learned that there is so much available in groups. Healing, connection, and growth, all of those things are available in groups as we connect with other people. And if we aren't connecting with other people in groups, we aren't getting that. Nadine Dyer (16:18) Mmm. This is just, it's just great to talk this out, you know, and I just think a lot of women can relate to a lot of what you're saying again. And it's when your mindset changed, you started, well, the way that it worked is your mindset got you into almost a pit that you were needing help. So then you started seeking help, you started growing, it started changing your mindset. And as your mindset changed, you started to change, things around you started to change, how you show up started to change, and then your life started to change. Mary (17:03) And the other thing I can tell you about that is you don't get to the end of that. There's always more. And when I start talking to people in coaching and I tell them there's always more, they're like, please don't, no, no, I just want, I want to fix this and be done. Well, you won't fix this and be done. There's always more, but it's better more, not worse more. Nadine Dyer (17:10) Yeah, yeah. Can you speak to the relationship with your girls now and the relationship with your husband after, you know, things shifted and things got healthy for you? Mary (17:33) Yeah, when he quit drinking and we went through all the counseling and he went through inpatient treatment, at that point, we'd been married right at 20 years and we were married 43 years. So those last 20, 22 years were the absolute best. We didn't end up divorced, he passed from lung cancer. But yeah, those were like, we learned how to parent together, even though our kids were like, Nadine Dyer (17:48) Hmm. Mary (17:58) My oldest was 17 at that point. So they were 17, 15 and 13. And the counselor said, you know, it's probably too late. They'll probably have to go make all the same mistakes you did. Well, I mean, they've made their own mistakes, but they haven't done them all and they haven't gone through the. They have had what they needed. They've had somebody encourage them. They've had somebody to point them to counselors. They've had somebody to be as much coach as mom. And they're like, best friends, all three of them are just three of my very best friends. They're responsible adults and there were times in the teen years I wasn't sure that would ever happen. They're mothers, their kids are grown and they're turning into responsible adults and life is very different when you can acknowledge that what you're doing and what you're living isn't working. Identifying what is it, what's my part in it? If something's not working, it's your deal. It's not somebody else's deal. It's not somebody else's doing it to you. It's your choices. And sometimes to get out of that, the choices are really, really hard and scary because you don't get to choose anybody else's response to your changes. So you can only do one step at a time,and then adjust whatever needs to be adjusted and then go on to the next step. And so I really thought I would end up divorced. I really thought I would end up my kids wouldn't have anything to do with me. And we went through that. I filed for divorce. My one daughter moved out, wouldn't speak to me, wouldn't have anything to do with me, which lasted for two or three months, which was devastating because in my life, the one thing I wanted to be was a good mother. Nadine Dyer (19:41) I bet. Yeah. Mary (19:45) I failed, you know, I just failed. So it got worse before it gets better. And that's something I always tell people. When you start making these changes, you're going to meet with resistance. It's going to get worse. It's going to hurt. And that's why you need those groups I mentioned. You have to build a support system. You have to be linking arms with other women. You have to have more than just you. Because you have to know that there's still someplace that you're accepted. There's still someplace that you're loved. Nadine Dyer (19:54) Yeah. Mary (20:13) And there's still some place where people will tell you the truth, whatever that might be. So I couldn't have done it without all of that. Nadine Dyer (20:16) Yeah. And so, you know, episode one for mindset, we're going to do two episodes and the second episode is really going to dive into how do you shift your mindset, more practical, applicable solutions to mindset change. But for this episode, we just wanted to talk about Mary's mindset, where it was, where it is, you know, some steps of how she got there. And I just want to wrap this up by saying, ladies, you're not stuck. You're not hopeless and you are not alone. OK. If there is something going on for you, help is available. But the first step is admitting that you need help and seeking the answers. There's no shame in that. That's actually powerful and that's courageous. And we want to invite you to do that and join us on the next episode to talk about actionable items to really help shift the mindsets. Mary, is there anything else you want to wrap up this episode with? Mary (21:18) Really just the fact that that Purposeful Living has some of these groups going that you can begin to connect in. And I would just encourage you no matter how uncomfortable it feels or how much you don't want to go into a group of women you don't know or maybe you had bad experiences with women in the past, it's different here. And just come and join us. Nadine Dyer (21:40) Yeah, yeah, that's great. And we'll add all the links of how to plug in. And you can jump on purposefullivinginc.org as well and plug into community there if you feel led, it's available. So thank you, Mary. I'm excited for our next episode. And ladies, we will talk to you soon. We love you.